So, what’s going on now with the Republicans, the shutdown, and the debt limit?
I have always thought that the Republicans simply don’t have the power to win this battle in the conventional sense, anyway. As long as Obama is president and the Senate is in the hands of Harry Reid, they don’t have the votes to do it.
And so the news that there are compromises afoot is not exactly “news” at all.
A faction of the conservative wing of the party is livid at the prospect. That’s no surprise, either. You may be among them.
I have a very busy day today and can’t do my own long post about it right now, but you probably have quite a bit to say. Here’s a good analysis of the situation and the party’s ongoing civil war; and here’s another point of view.
One point, though: I’m thinking that those who said “let people experience Obamacare and they will reject it” (a situation I didn’t really agree would pan out that way) might have a point after all, if the abysmal rollout is any indication.
A stunning victory was never in the offing. Still, we’ve played a weak hand remarkably well, with some serendipitous help from the administration’s own incompetence. We’ve established our side as a credible alternative, in case Obamacare is the trainwreck we all expect it to be.
Time to extract what we can from the debt ceiling showdown, then move back to hitting the administration for corruption and incompetence.
These recent crises have also given us more wedge issues to use: what did the National Parks Department know, and when did they know it?
It won’t be long before the administration gives us more fodder.
Nothing is happening except for the institution of “red terror” where people are afraid of being arrested if they violate the states capricious rex laws…
we have rex lex!
lex rex is dead
long live the magna carta!!!
meanwhile, those who wonder where all those people who cant pay obamacare will go. and all those people who live near forbidden zones, and the protesters and on and on, can read about their new homes
Army Regulation 210—35
Installations Civilian Inmate Labor Program
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf
This regulation provides Army policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate labor programs and civilian prison camps on Army installations. Sources of civilian inmate labor are limited to on— and off—post Federal corrections facilities, State and/or local corrections facilities operating from on—post prison camps pursuant to leases under Section 2667, Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 2667), and off—post State corrections facilities participating in the demonstration project authorized under Section 1065, Public Law (PL) 103—337. Otherwise, State and/or local inmate labor from off—post corrections facilities is currently excluded from this program.
wait long enough and the stuff you think i put forth that is irrelevant, comes into play and then what?
round em up, work em dead, rawhide!!!
What actual demonstrable evidence would such people have, which would indicate that a leftist in power ever retreats in the face of redounding negatives instead of doubling down “in order to correct them”?
Given the left’s lack of moral or constitutional limits, what ever stops them from just extracting more and more until they are, if ever, met with physical resistance?
Those Republicans who’ve recently used normal politics and long recognized parliamentary procedures in order to preserve their constituents’ freedom, are now, and casually, branded “terrorists” and “traitors” by the “Obamunists” and their leader.
And given the size of the Democrat Party’s client class (both the professional dispensers and the recipients), it would take quite a psychological revolution to get the effect at the polls these naive folks hope for. As seen by the left, the answer to any problem caused by socialism is always that there just wasn’t complete enough socialism, or totalitarian enough control, to make it work well, and that what is needed is more.
We all know that. We’ve all said it before.
And they’re probably Fabian enough to make sure that they don’t cause so much pain so as to provoke a reaction they cannot control. We all know, and have made observations to that effect, before too.
The Republican’s only hope, if their failures of the past are any guide, was to do just that; to let it fall by the hand of Obama, and try to dominate the chaos and return to order. If the client class never feels the pain their takings cause others, and their government niches or payouts preserve them from that generally, then the only way to make them feel the pain is to nettle their niches.
What have we got to lose? The rest of our freedoms if we dare anger the Beast?
After a long series of debates with a couple of Marxists (one actually called himself a “Georgist” or De Leonist or something) a few years back, I finally asked the natural question; and they after much resistance and stalling, finally answered. “When is enough enough, where does the presumption to draw upon others’ lives end, and when and how does it end?”
The answer of course, was: “Never”.
It cannot end for them. Because they need you, in a way you do not need them. And anyone living outside the system they require in order to thrive, constitutes an affront to their very being, to the kind of thing they are. That is why they never stop. After all, really hinges more on Darwin, than Marx.
h. The Provost Marshal General will–(1) Monitor reporting of serious incidents, that is, walkaways, escapes, riots, disturbances, and any criminal activity
by civilian inmates occurring on the installation under AR 190—40.
you can read the regs here…
Military Police Serious Incident Report
http://dmna.ny.gov/suicideprevention/Serious_Incident_Report_Protocol/r190_40.pdf
(1) Ensure that their installations participating in civilian inmate labor programs comply with 18 USC 4125(a) and other applicable laws governing civilian inmate labor, Executive Order (EO) 11755, and all provisions of this regulation.
the order which was created in 73, basically says that these camps have to be re-education camps….
of course, since its not all in one document, and i only gave the first one years ago, i found that no one was curious enough to go look up the whole trail of things.
now, of course it makes MORE sense if you look at the new order that Obama just gave that makes the people in the civilian force equivalent and able to replace the military officers in the military. (And are not sworn in ot the constitution).
ie. the power of the military can be transferred completely to whomever obama appoints to the positions… all he has to do after that, is give them a higher rank!!!
[edited for length n-n]
anyone remember how they provatized the prisons so that they are run by corporations that lobby for more laws and more prisoners?
so now, the fascists in state, can deal with the prison system the way the german polity dealt with krups, ibm, etc..
Negotiating with corrections systems representatives
Installation commanders may initiate discussions with FBOP representatives concerning use of civilian inmate labor on Army installations, subject to the governing provisions listed in paragraph 2—3. Installation commanders are not authorized to negotiate with representatives of State or local corrections systems or governmental agencies regarding civilian inmate labor from off—post corrections facilities
and they just released the bomb that people with guns and muscle staged a coup at the tea party headquarters removing kibble… without it ever being reported other forces came into play threatening to report the old guard GOP PROGRESSIVES using thugs to remove these people.
as i said..
its good cop bad cop…
the republicans are not oppositions…
because if you then have it this way, you control both sides of an issue, and so control all outcomes and things, and can make a show of it for public consumption
the radicals of the tea party were threatening and are threatening to break up this good cop bad cop play against the poor public who is not allowed legal representaiton to break up the game.
i can even tell you which laws had to be changed in order to allow it…
but why would the incurious want all that?
cant let the facts get in the way of a good armchair assesment that garners responses from others who are also incurious..
you cant assess this shut down and all that unless you know the players, and if the players are misrepresenting themselves to you and fixing the fights in the background (explaining their traitor actions as reaching across the isle), then what can one do but watch the sheep get prepared for slaugher and try to be way back in line.
Do you have a point, Art, that you can actually write down?
Ymarsakar
no of course not, i am an enigma wrapped in a mystery and you are a fortune cookieologist who has to unwrap me. take me to your fabulous ruler yamarsakr.
let me ask.
if i just said they have labor camps and a system ready for when obama and ilk piss off people enough to protest and violate lots of rules and things they dont know exist.
but someone like you woud then say, they dont have that. since most people cant remember this stuff at all, especially if its more than a couple of weeks old!!!!!!!!! i tend to have to lead off with the facts first.
kind of like explaining what a nuclear reactor is before you can talk about its implications. i know your used to arguing in ignorance by picking speakers that you like and say what you want to hear, but thats not good enough when you want real answers.
you haev to put together the events, the law changes, the goals of the movement, the signing orders, the new military as powerful as the old one, and all that.
are you doing that?
or are you just looking at the cargo cult surface and not digging deeper looking at what is possible that should never be possible
ie. do you think its wise to have a button designed and made to be installed in your house that if pressed blows you and everyone up in the house then just say, it serves no purpose, its not used now, and we just wont press it even though its there?
you know. thats what i think about a collection of laws that together make up the tools needed for a coupe and law change in days, and no other real purpose.
the fact that they were put in ove the past 100 years means nothing if you ever went into a gothic cathedra.
a gothic cathedral is a testimoney to the fact that well organized men can proceed with a plan that spans several lifetimes and achieve it while the majority cant plan a vacation.
1160 Maurice de Sully (named Bishop of Paris), orders the original cathedral to be demolished.
1163 Cornerstone laid for Notre Dame de Paris – construction begins
1182 Apse and choir completed.
1196 Nave completed. Bishop de Sully dies.
1200 Work begins on western faé§ade.
1225 Western faé§ade completed.
1250 Western towers and north rose window completed
1250 — 1345 Remaining elements completed
185 years…
the progressives cathedral isnt even enar that much and there are a heck of a lot more people and money and personal fortunes involved.
Ymarsakar
one last thing
if they could not handle collapse, and the riots and have places to put people and all that se up prior.
maybe they would be more afraid of a collapse.
but if you have spent 50 years putting the laws in place, adjusting the signing statements the past few years, and you purposefully put in a law that is destined to cause this, along with other potentials that may cause this.
are you worried that you may cause this?
or are you wanting it to happen, so you can engage the preparations, and play the victim martyr?
pump and dump is over
BOEHNER: LET’S RAISE THE DEBT!
STOCKS SOAR…
if you were clever lik me (and less poor)
you would have bought saddle options
ie. a put and a call
i did that on paper trading in thinkorswim when this started… not bad… up $78,000 dollars in 3 weeks… putting my account at well over 198 when it started at 100k…
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=5147
College students blaming Obama?
I am suprised that anyone objects to the “defund Obamacare or shutdown” because it won’t result in repealing Obamacare. That’s a given from the start. The goal is to create a reason to vote Republican in 2014 and 2016. The whole episode has made it clear that if you don’t want Obamacare, you will have to vote in a Republican Congress, Senate and President.
Boehner and Ryan have blinked. They’re offering a ‘clean’, temporary debt limit increase, tied to ‘talks’ of deficit reduction. So Obama agrees to it, gets his debt increase and then reneges on sincere negotiations on deficit reductions.
This is indicated by the WSJ reporting that, “The prospect of broad budget talks is reviving worries among some liberals that Mr. Obama would agree to steps to trim Social Security or Medicare benefits in order to win Republican concessions.” [my emphasis]
So liberals aren’t worried that Obama will cut funding for the EPA, IRS or ObamaCare, they’re worried that Obama will, ‘with great reluctance’ agree to demands by ‘evil’ republicans that Grandma & Grandpa bear the burden of deficit reduction…
Obama knows that trimming Social Security and/or Medicare benefits is political dynamite but if he can with the aid of the MSM, blame such cuts on the Republicans (in the minds of the low-info voters), he strengthens democrat’s prospects in 2014 to regain the House.
Will Boehner and Ryan fall for it? Or is this a case of the RINO’s paying lip service but after “fighting the good fight”, caving once again?
artfldgr: “one last thing”
I doubt that.
just to make you happy matt
Was government shutdown planned?
Oct 1 2013
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2013/0913_govtshutdown/President-shutdown-msg-Oct-1.pdf
i like the part where the national science foundation helped make google
NAPOLITANO: The Obama administration has gone rogue
gone?
What we need is less government spending in particular and less government overall. As long as the Republicans are tacking that course they’ll be fine.
Karl Denninger pretty much said today that if the Republicans cave on raising the debt ceiling, it’s over.
The End Of The Republican Party
Cut The BS Boehner and Ryan
Over at RedState, they had a different analysis:
The CR and debt ceiling are two separate issues, but are starting to merge in the public consciousness. In order to get maximum benefit (for Republicans), they need to be separated…get one benefit on CR, then another on debt ceiling.
That’s the reason for the short-term extension.
I was watching Fox, and some microbrewer was complaining that gov’t shutdown was endangering his business because gov’t couldn’t approve his license. Then it hit me:
Most of the pain we’re experiencing is self-inflicted. We’ve gotten so used to everything being “certified” by the government that it seems dangerous without it.
Bullshit.
There’s nothing at all stopping this guy from opening a microbrewery…other than the threat of retaliation when the government reopens.
Matt_SE Says:
October 10th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
Ayn Rand called it “The Sanction of the Victim”.
We allow the government to have entirely illegitimate power over us. Why the hell does anybody need government “permission” to start a business? The truth is, we don’t, if we assert ourselves.
Excellent post at Ace’s today:
Obama’s Empircal Rationalist Patriots Settle on New Talking Point: People Who Disagree With Our Profligate Spending are “Economic Traitors”
People who are opposed to deficit spending and Obamacare are “economic traitors”.
Art will know what that means.
Barry’s intent is to drive the discomfort upon the ‘Republican class.’
However, his artillery is hitting LIV Democrat voters, who’d not been following politics at all.
Major patrons of K Street are being cut off from the spigot, if temporarily.
The Speaker is trying to keep the Continuing Resolution in the public eye.
Having 0bamacare stumbling out of the gate is of perfect timing to have Barry give one-year exemptions for another 48 states.
Barry is ultimately going to cave because his baby is not yet ready to be born.
It’s a massively regressive tax increase — destined to tank the economy just in time for 2014.
The effects would be global, Smoot-Hawley on steroids.
And in larger news: the Middle East is now fulsomely involved in ummah-wide civil war.
Getting our boys out of the atomic cross-fire between the Sunni and Shia is not a bad idea.
The poorly executed rollout of the Obamacare web portals, while expected, will have little to do with the public’s dissatisfaction with the law. The one thing that will change minds is having to pony up cash – and there is a not unsignificant minority who actually thought that the tsunami would not get them wet. Once they have to start shelling out thousands of dollars that they were not before, they become instant Republicans. That’s probably about 90% of the self-employed people in the US.
but someone like you woud then say, they dont have that.
Besides the issue of whether I think they do or don’t, what do you think it means if they do have them?
Do you expect 250million Americans to be put in there, or do you think only 5-50m Americans will be?
Neo- I never believed the republicans would actually succeed in defunding, however the idea that it would be rejected because it was so bad is just not realistic.
You only need to look at this battle and every other that the republicans have waged since Obamas election, to know the outcome. All the blame for all the implementation problems would put on the republicans obstructing the process. Just Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war and end up supporting it to rescue their own political careers. Even as a ruling majority, the political pressure would be on them to do something to fix the mess. Repealing it would be just as chaotic at this point; many businesses have been preparing and others have sprung up to take advantage of the program; the government has hired thousands of people to implement it- no matter what the truth is, there would be an endless parade of people victimized by thinking they were finally going to have health care, only to have the hopes dashed by heartless republicans.
One by one, “reasonable, moderate” republicans who are not in safe districts would break ranks with the repeal crowd, if it even got off the ground.
Nothing in the republican play book since Reagan suggests they could, or would do anything that would be controversial or bring the media down on their heads.
Even with all 3 branches of government under republican control, they would not have the fortitude to dismantle it. They would try to fix it- and no matter what they did to do so would be characterized as bad, until they compromised enough of their ” fixes” to make it an even bigger mess.
If they do get into power again, they won’t risk any actions that threaten to end it. You don’t need to look any further than the way they handle themselves now, in order to determine what they will do while in power. They’re still the same inarticulate bunch – who cannot control the impulse to prove they are moderate and compassionate by advancing social spending programs, to silence their critics and to stay in office.
@southpaw
Just Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war
But they’re not losing, per se. They are going down in the polls, but so it Obama. In fact, it’s not too surprising to me that Rs are dropping but I wasn’t sure I’d ever see Obama this low. He always seemed to have a floor of 40%.
Shutdown theater is backfiring on Obama and the Senate Democrats. The NPS antics are really turning off a lot of people.
And so far, the “reasonable moderates” aren’t retreating en masse. There was a brief tantrum from Peter King (I hate him) and followers, but that…petered out.
It’s hard to strategize when basic propositions are in doubt. For instance:
Everyone wants to prevent a complete economic meltdown before 2014.
Seems very reasonable, but the informed person knows there are consequences due to hiding the debt problem with printed money. Obamacare has already lowered family income. The question is when will the boom drop?
Obama will facilatate the crisis when he believes he can blame Republicans for it. He’s spent all his time as President blaming Republicans and building that narrative.
And RINOs are terrified. They believe in his power and they reinforce his power by acting guilty. What I would like to ask them is, “When do they think they are going to turn the tide?” If they can’t do it with the facts of the Obama administration, then when?
But here’s a question. When is it right for a politician to facilitate destruction upon America for political power? Or as a preemptive measure?
And how do you measure destruction? Destruction of government is what? Good or bad? When is that question asked? In a time of crisis when people look to the government?
I can’t answer those questions in a general way. But there are some principles that do guide me. The first is that theft of property (socialism) is wrong and leads to tyranny and misery. And Obamacare and the debt is theft now and in the future.
Theft demands an immediate response. You oppose the violation of unalterable truths always. If you haven’t in the past, then now is the time to begin. Because it doesn’t really matter if you pick the best time. The best time is always now and my argument for that is religious more than rational. Sin begets sin whether on a personal or national level.
For those who place rationalism on top, they must wade through the quagmire of strategy. In my view, only to arrive, in the end, with the same conclusion.
There is precedent for repealing a piece of social welfare. I remember this because there were near riots of the elderly attacking Dan Rostenkowski at the time. There are going to be a lot more people than just the seniors angry this time. Or as Senator Phil Gramm said at the time of HillaryCare, “If this thing passes, they’re going to be hunting Democrats in the streets like rabid dogs.”
“Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1988, Public Law. 100-360 (July 1, 1988). The 1988 Catastrophic Act focused on providing protection against catastrophic medical expenses under Medicare. Specifically, the Act expanded the Medicare program to provide protection against catastrophic medical expenses and for the first time, provided coverage under the Medicare program for prescription drugs. To pay for these benefit expansions, a new supplemental premium tax on all persons eligible for Medicare was enacted. After massive protests by seniors, the law was essentially repealed the next year.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski