January 15th, 2014

The ladder of evil

Commenter “Ymarsakar” made an interesting observation two days ago. The subject:

When the world declares Jews, Republicans, and whites to be non humans that need to be exterminated to get rid of a threat to humanity, most people will Obey.

Most will. They have nothing in their spine that can resist the Power of the World and its numbers. Nothing.

I have a slightly different take on it. I’ve long conceptualized the whole thing as a hierarchy of evil and the resistance to it, a sort of ladder with many rungs. Here they are, in order from most evil to most dedicated to fighting evil:

Some people will conceptualize, plan, and implement it as leaders.

Some people will actively cooperate with vigor.

Some people will support it but not actively participate.

Some people will be indifferent unless it directly reaches them or their family.

Some people will be somewhat disturbed by it, but manage to put it out of their minds most of the time and go on with their lives.

Some people will be disturbed by it and contemplate various forms of resistance, but will be too frightened to act.

Some people will be disturbed by it and will decide to act in small ways to resist it, ways they consider lower risk.

Some people will be disturbed by it and will decide to take great risks in order to resist it, but could be stopped by threats (not necessarily threats to themselves, but threats to friends and family).

Some people will risk all to actively resist it in every way they can.

An example of the latter would be those Poles who continued their rescue efforts and resistance despite this type of retribution from the Nazis:

Poland was the only place where German law rendered any assistance to Jews punishable by death. That punishment was severe and collective: It was meted out not only to the rescuer but also to his entire family and to anyone else who knew about such activities and did not report them. Almost 1,000 Poles were killed this way, including entire families whose children were not spared.

When we talk about the prevalence of evil in humanity, and whether people are “good at heart,” this is what I think we’re actually discussing. What percentage of the population belongs to each group? I don’t know, but if I had to guess at the shape of a graph, it probably would be a normal distribution—that is, the biggest bump would be in the middle groups, with much smaller numbers for the beginning and ending rungs of the ladder of evil.

So what causes the difference among the groups? Why is a person in one rather than another? Darned if I know, but I have ideas. Some of it probably has to do with devotion to something beyond oneself, which could be religion (in certain circumstances it could even be Communism—in Poland, for example, many of the resisters to the Nazis were Communists). This can lead to good or to evil (such as the 9/11 terrorists). Many of the differences among groups almost certainly involve personal traits that are some combination of nature and nurture, such as the extent of the devotion to liberty. And although psychopaths/sociopaths (the ladder’s first couple of rungs) are often born, certain societies in certain times can be especially effective at fostering and encouraging and promoting them, and using them most fully to further goals of the group rather than just goals of the individual psychopath/sociopath.

In the end, though, there is something mysterious about it all: the problem of evil, with which humankind has been wrestling for aeons.

30 Responses to “The ladder of evil”

  1. Nick Says:

    I like the idea of graphing evil on a ladder or a bell curve, but there are always possibilities that one can’t be easily place on a continuum. Some people will be ignorant, or ignorant of the extent of the problem. Some will be overwhelmed by it and in denial, and some people will be overwhelmed by other things, or trying to solve other problems. Some people will become part of the machine to reform it. Some people will see them killing priests and gypsies and call for them to stop killing priests even as they pick up stones to join in the killing of gypsies.

    I remember a movie called Swing Kids, about a crowd of Anglophile kids in Nazi Germany. A lot of people criticized the movie because they thought is was saying that the Nazis were bad for breaking up dance parties. What the movie was really saying is that eventually, totalitarianism comes for everyone, and everyone has to make a choice. It’s just difficult to see that when you’re living a life.

  2. Ymarsakar Says:

    I too think there are variances in individual behavior. For example, obedience does not necessarily mean complying with orders. It may mean utilizing a state of denial to get along in life, claiming that “they didn’t know what was really going on, they were just obeying orders”. It may mean projecting their own problems unto others, such as saying X enemy of the state is greedy and a problem, instead of dealing with one’s own personal greed and problems. The State merely legitimatizes this in the form of obedience to the Cause, everything in the State none against the State, nothing outside the State either. It is a form of peer support.

    There is also displacement, where in order to defend themselves and their family from threats, they have to go after the low hanging fruit. In this case, the low hanging fruit are the minorities or specially labeled non-humans. While they may have fought the Regime and achieved better results, that’s too risky. IT’s easier to obey and shatter the sub-humans first. As a form of displacement it works. As a way to survive, it may work too. But as a way to solve human problems and get rid of evil… it doesn’t work.

    While people and families may have different motivations for obedience, ultimately they abdicate their free will and individual judgment in favor of what their peers judge to be correct, what the intellectuals says is right is right, and what the State deems human and good. That is the obedience at work, fundamentally speaking. AN obedience to the judgment of society and the numbers of human mass peers.

    An adult can tell a child or high school kid, “why do you care what other people in your school think, it doesn’t matter, don’t care about it”. That’s easy to say but difficult to do, for teenagers see as peers the very same insecure, mad enraged, and petty fools that they themselves share qualities with. That is the weakness to peer pressure in the form of obedience to authority. The legitimacy of authority comes from the closeness of that authority and the power of that authority. So while adults may have power in the kiddie world, the adults are not always there. The kid’s peers, however, are always there in the face ready to torment or torture as they deem needed or desirable. An adult does not care what high schoolers think because an adult does not deem that a bunch of kids are his peers and able to sit in judgment of the adult. However, if the adult’s family, workers, boss, and political leader of his tribe told him to do something, then it would be different. Then he would care because they are who he would have considered his peers and/or legitimate sources of authority over his adultness.

    Much of the training that goes into raising warriors or independent individuals, has to do with providing that child, boy or girl, something to which they can value and grow with in life to the point where it takes root and reinforces that person’s spine against external pressure and tyranny. We may call it learning how to shoot guns, hunting, getting a job, or making a hobby out of a passion, but it’s all about bulking up a person’s spiritual and mental strength. The stronger the person is in meta physical existence, the less likely they are to surrender their free will to some other entity. Their ability to be “zombiefied” is reduced through resistance habits.

    Some of these habits were developed as a necessity in ancient human history, because the guy that would refuse to obey someone else’s better judgment often ended up dead or causing the entire tribe to suffer unnecessary casualties. So whenever a human feels lack of confidence in something, they ultimately look around for somebody that looks like they know what they are doing. The concept of “deception” does not develop as a survival mechanism against nature, because nature doesn’t care about deception. Only members of the same species can be fooled by deception.

    Since that is the case, it’s easy to fool humans into thinking a gun is an evil totem that is like a demon sword that corrupts all it touches, if the person in question has no idea of how demon swords actually work (or guns for that matter). The immediate counter is to develop training in the human on the subject they have ignorance in, but that is like a band aid. The real problem is that the person in question is used to letting other people decide things that impact their personal survival. That is a habit that is hard to break, even if the person has specific talents and expertise in things.

    Leaders that are responsible for the survival of their people, tend to be competent by necessity. The majority are competent if not good. The people in the rare category are those who would trust their own judgment above even God’s judgment, if they were to meet God in person that is. That is a special type of person, something that human evolution only produced by luck or mistake.

    Coincidentally, it was those individuals that tended to labeled druids, magicians, warlocks, or other titles that spoke of fearsome unknown special knowledge and no ability for the tribe’s social peers to control such individuals. Normally ancient human society controlled people by either promising resources for survival or withhold said resources. Threat of exile to the outer edge of the herd, meant being exposed to the elements and to predators (both natural and human). Thus people obey the leadership of the social tribe because they want to live. Magicians and other people that like living alone by themselves in the wilderness, were crazy people. They were the single warrior out of a tribe of 10,000, that refused to do what they were told and got exiled out to the wilderness to die. Except they didn’t die. They learned how to survive by themselves, mostly. Thus society no longer had a hold on them. The amount of martial and herb knowledge required to live by oneself, as a human, is extraordinary. Many of those individuals, with a martial bent, conducted successful guerilla warfare against local tribes for decades without being caught. Killing hundreds by themselves in one battle after another. Not only did these individuals have wilderness lore, herb lore, martial knowledge, and survival skills above even the best hunters of nomadic tribes, but these special individuals were also hard to kill. As a result, it was easier just to give them food and apprentice people to them, so that it brings back to the village new ways of doing things, without upsetting the social order.

    As the power of the State or centralized authority grew stronger, it became feasible to hunt these individuals down using pure manpower. But even then, it’s not easy. Against individuals that were just “strange” that people called witches because they didn’t like the fact that their men folk would look at an attractive woman, or because old hags were easy to euthanize, it may be easy to kill them off by capturing them and burning them. But many ancient warriors that were exiled to die alone, developed fearsome capabilities in killing off entire battle groups of enemies trying to find them. From modern day snipers in WWII Sweden to old American Wild West frontiersmen, they existed.

    So in retrospect, the American experiment was crazy. It was somehow supposed to give birth to a nation of people that rule themselves? That’s like chaos and crazyness to the Europeans of the time, ruled by ancient centuries of aristocratic privilege and hierarchy. It only worked because most Americans already ruled themselves. They did not abdicate their judgment to some foreigner or some guy sitting in a chair at New York.

    Human nature makes certain societies more preferable for certain types of humans. For a bunch of individual humans that hated authority, American self government was just the thing to stop people from having an argument and killing each other. (Even the Code Duello didn’t prevent all deaths, as witnessed in Andrew Jackson’s life and the life of some the Founding Fathers) But for a bunch of people that prefer obedience to freedom, that prefer trusting in the judgment of their peers to the judgment of their soul, a monarchy or an oligarchy would be a better fit.

    Evil or the Leftist Regime, just thinks humanity works better under a certain system. And to make that system work, they need to make more slaves. Which is natural considering the goal. If you want a government for the people, by the people, you need independent individuals, warriors, and people who cannot be Made to Obey. Thus a Slave Empire cannot be created with those people Floating Around.

  3. Matt_SE Says:

    “…if I had to guess at the shape of a graph, it probably would be a normal distribution…”

    I would guess this too, but for much simpler reasons:

    People are lazy/self-involved. That is the “fat” part of the curve. People that either look outside their own narrow interests or have the motivation/time/energy to do something about it are the tail ends.
    One tail is those you define as good, the other as bad. But either way, they are always the active minority that gets things rolling.

    Examples: Russian revolution, American revolution…hell, really any revolution.

    Popular revolutions are the exceptions, not the rule historically. They show that even the fat part of the curve can be motivated to action if the pain is great enough.

    There are probably other examples, but I’m too lazy to think of them.

  4. vanderleun Says:

    “Some people sit on their butts;
    got the dream, yeah, but not the guts.
    That’s living for some people,
    for some hum-drum people I suppose.
    Well, they can stay and rot!
    But not Rose!”

  5. Nick Says:

    Ymarsakar –

    “ultimately they abdicate their free will and individual judgment in favor of what their peers judge to be correct…”

    But we’re overlooking how that can be a good thing. The impulse to go along with the crowd can be rooted in humility. It encourages learning from one’s peers and allows you to inherit wisdom through tradition. In most situations, we don’t need a society of snipers.

    Or maybe that just my inner sniper being a contrarian!

  6. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Some thoughts;

    The bell curve is a graphical representation of the interrelationship between certain ill-defined operative laws of the universe within which we exist, how could human nature not reflect reality?

    Evil is an existential threat, fight or flight the two categories of response.

    Resistance to evil springs from one of, or a particular combination of, two sources; the heart and/or the mind. The heart is the more mysterious of the two. Resistance to evil that springs from the mind is that of opposition based in allegiance to principle. Faith alone cannot explain the heart, for agnostic’s and atheist’s resistance to evil can spring from the heart as well.

    If the Biblical Genesis is an accurate metaphor for the human condition (much less literally true), then separation from the Divine, without the ability to truly discern good from bad, operating through an in-divided duality (in∙divi∙duality) will result in a spectrum of good and evil.

    The ancients attributed it all to the make-up of the person’s soul. They may have been right or not or they may have had part of the puzzle.

    Whatever the explanation, ultimately what we recognize as evil we have a duty to resist and to the degree that we do determines how much of the problem or solution we manifest.

    Edmund Burke had the right of it, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

  7. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    vanderleun,

    Excellent. Curses, you made my lazy butt look it up!

    “Some People” Lyrics from ‘Gypsy’.

  8. DNW Says:

    “When we talk about the prevalence of evil in humanity, and whether people are “good at heart,” this is what I think we’re actually discussing. What percentage of the population belongs to each group? I don’t know, but if I had to guess at the shape of a graph, it probably would be a normal distribution—that is, the biggest bump would be in the middle groups, with much smaller numbers for the beginning and ending rungs of the ladder of evil.

    So what causes the difference among the groups? Why is a person in one rather than another? Darned if I know, but I have ideas. ”

    What continually strikes me, is the continuing conservative mystification over the motives and principles involved in all this on the part of the other side.

    When I ask how the collectivist cannot value liberty, I suppose what I am really expressing is how the tastes and preferences of some others – who were raised in a similar environment – could be so dull and pathetic and death-like.

    I cannot feel, or imagine, how such an existence could in any way be tolerable much less compelling.

    But intellectually? Surely, we all by now understand the radically evolutionary intellectual form of the moral paradigm embraced by the collectivist class which enables, indeed promotes, a blase’ attitude toward herd culling murder?

    For us to talk of people being “dehumanized” first, is to presume a premise for rebuttal which they do not recognize in the first place. To seriously talk of their acts of delegitimizing or dehumanizing, is to speak of their renouncing the import of a term or concept which the collectivist does not view as an objective or intrinsically value-bearing “universal” term in the first place.

    The term “Man”, like any other universal term, is taken as a term having only a conventional, socially constructed and relative meaning; the phenomenon itself bearing no intrinsic moral import.

    As an illustration, think about your reading of Marx. Remember?

    What is the “essence” of man according to Marx? It’s not found in his biological nature, nor in a moral extrapolation from some teleological starting point, but in the evolving nature of the world producing itself through a material dialectic of which man is part.

    The essence of man, is found in the mode of production. So many modes of material production, so many “species”, at least moral species, of man.

    No progressive since Hume has believed in “men”.

    And plenty of murderers before that had a very brutish view of existence which in practice paralleled the ideological implication of seeing man as a kind of brute; as an instance of a more general kind of thing which was itself nothing more than self-reproducing organic machines, under one conceptualization.

    They don’t have to dehumanize those they wish to kill. “Humanity” never implied much to them in the first place.

  9. Ymarsakar Says:

    It encourages learning from one’s peers and allows you to inherit wisdom through tradition.

    If you want an example of how that can be interpreted and taken, consider Art’s position that his knowledge comes 100% from what he reads. As in, the ancient texts of wisdom is 100% transfered when read and if people read it, they will “know” it and agree too.

    This is just another form of abdication of judgment. It’s something beginners do to learn how the world works, but it shouldn’t be taken past that.

    The Baby Boomers inherited not much of the wisdom of the WWII and Great Depression generation. They inherited pleasure and false judgment value, because they were kept from suffering the mistakes that put fire and iron in the spines of the previous gens.

    People can only learn through experience. Mimicking and obeying their elders, is only of worth if it is an experience equal or better than the original.

  10. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    “I cannot feel, or imagine, how such an existence could in any way be tolerable much less compelling.” DNW

    Whenever I fail to understand what a large number of people find enjoyable or are drawn too, I reflect that the choice is either a limitation in me or to conclude that an awful lot of people are idiots. Occam’s Razor settles the matter, it is I who fail to appreciate what so many others find of value.

    I cannot appreciate highly spicy food, yet have enough friends and family that do, as to have reached the conclusion that genetics has denied me the ability to taste the flavor that they so highly prize.

    So too with individuality versus the group. Both “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” and John Stuart Mill’s dictum that, “Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.” are true.

    The collective communism that we all object to is a perversion I believe of communion. That so many attracted to communion fail to distinguish it from its perversion communism, in no way fails to obviate the collective impulse, seen perhaps in team sports most of all.

    Perhaps a useful analogy is one that occurred to me many years ago, while watching an old John Wayne movie, “She Wore a Yellow Ribbon”. The troop moves into hostile Indian country, configured themselves into definable categories; the leader Wayne, the subordinate officers and non-coms, the troops and the most individual of all, the scouts. That you and I and most everyone who frequents this blog fall into the category of ‘scouts’ does not obviate the need for the troops.

    The problem is not with those of whom the ‘proletariat’ consists. The problem is that they have been indoctrinated into the memes of those (leftists) who embrace the overall meme that all that the ‘proletariat’ can ever be is peasants.

  11. Ymarsakar Says:

    I noticed a certain phenomenon in martial arts years ago. It was the issue of the difficulties with mastering an art or a class of techniques, based upon work load, time investment, and dedication over the years.

    Many people who jump around the martial art schools, getting a black belt here or there, think they have mastered something. When in fact they have barely graduated apprenticeship school. They are still at the level where they are copying the instructor’s moves and can’t fight without the instructor telling them in their ear what to do and why. I often think that these individuals won’t have their instructor telling them what to do, when they actually come up against a threat in life accidentally or surprisingly.

    To begin with, a black belt or shodan is a first degree black belt generally speaking. Every franchise school, every individually owned school, and every bloodline artistic style has their own determination of what makes a person promotable to a certain rank. There’s no E-5 or O-2 category that harmonizes the differences in ranks. The franchise setups like ATF attempt to do so, but quality control is wild.

    What this translates to simulation time and competence is that mastery generally occurs around 10,000 man hours of practice/experience in something. A shodan is generally awarded to most modern karate students at around the 500-1000 man hour mark, and that’s not considering the quality of the simulation time. Given that 1 year on the battlefield equaled about 10 years training in the dojo.

    Even though (some of) these arts and techniques should have been passed down unbroken and inherited by the instructors, it is incredibly difficult to get a student to proficiency and it’s impossible to get them to mastery since that requires independent thought.

    Other than the DNA heir that inherits the techniques through his body, the rest of us have to supply hard work and our own experience to the dojo floor. It’s not something we inherit.

    It’s more like something I backwards engineer and de-construct to reconstruct it in my own fashion.

    A lot of the practical problems with using complicated hand to hand techniques is that people can “learn” or memorize a list of things to do. But they then won’t do it in a battle because they are still waiting for someone to tell them what to do, like they always did in the dojo. They’re always sitting at the feet of the masters listening to the stuff that is dropped unto them, to the point where they stop thinking for themselves. As a result, their combat effectiveness drops, even though some of them have had 10 or 20 or even 30 years of continuous training. Not 30 years of simulation time. 2-4 hours a week perhaps. Maybe 5-10 hours a week for serious hobbyists?

    Even if we use a optimistic estimate of 5 hours of practice per day for the serious student, that’s only 1460 hours per year. Because of the lack of battle experience or fighting experience, even after 10 years people are still having problems thinking on their own, as their training time is not as effective as ancient methods that presumed students had at least some real world experience with violence. Many of those hours are spent in repetition training, where the brain just turns off due to following a habit. Good for obeying orders, not so good for figuring things out at a higher level. So 1500 hours per year, after 10 years you should certainly be proficient but only beginning, perhaps, the road to mastery.

    It may be necessary for people who are new to be given a rigid format to learn from. But it should not be applied past its expiration date. People should not be using the same formal methods of learning via lecture and absorbing the words of the instructor, in their 10th year in a school. But because they never have to use this stuff for real or never have to test it out, people do sit around for 10, 20, 30 years and their fighting potential is still incomplete and often insufficient.

    For martial arts, that’s just a hobby many Westerners take up given modern times. At most, they can only get themselves and anyone around them killed as a result of overestimating their knowledge and abilities. For politics, the economy, and military practices, the stakes are slightly higher and the consequences slightly more painful for the rest of us. Slightly, as in way more than should be reasonable.

    But we’re overlooking how that can be a good thing.

    Those who abdicate their judgment to others, can no longer complain about it afterwards. What are they going to say, that they didn’t “know what was going on”, that they were just doing as they were told to get by? That level of ignorance can only go so far, as consequences for a nation’s actions do blowback after awhile.

    There’s a certain domestic sentiment in Europe and Japan, that says since America is paying for security we might as well rely on them to be the world’s police as they pay in gold and blood for our safety. But that means if America wants something, it’s hard to deny America what the hyperpower demands. That may be tolerable if people’s interests are in common, but what if Obama demands that a nation disarm and allow itself to be invaded and burned to ash so that Obama can sit and watch it on tv with michelle for joys and giggles? Are people going to resist American power after decades of relying on American security guarantees and promises? Of course not.

    Europe has been stuck on that kind of parasitism for so long they have rotten. And Japan is only beginning to introduce counter-propaganda to counter the domestic concept that it is perfectly okay to rely on a foreign power, America, for most things in life. Israel has already been forced away from the American sphere, because of you know who. They had to go on their own way whether they liked it or not, because America is not always going to be there to protect people. And relying on such a power, abdicating one’s national interest in favor of somebody else’s guarantees, isn’t sustainable. It doesn’t produce independent individuals and it doesn’t produce strong nations.

    The peace, prosperity, and security America offers is like a drug. People can become addicted to it. It’s like charity. First time they are grateful. Second time they are expectant. Third time they feel entitled to even more of your charity. Not only does this apply to foreign nations and their people, but it also applies to our own blacks, Jews, gays, lesbians, Democrats, and Republicans. Peace that they do not pay for, security that they do not bleed for, they will throw that stuff away as fast as someone promises them an even better deal. They know not the value of what people worked and died for, because it’s not in their experience/value system. They inherited the money, but not the virtues.

  12. Mike Says:

    Evil is indeed a problem. And your scale seems to be about right.

    But let’s not use scales and abstract musings to not call evil out when it is right in front of us.

    Barack Obama is an evil person. He hates the country he is President of, and its people, and its history and its law, and its tradition. He hates everything about it except its power, which he has taken and is using against it.

    And his supporters aren’t a millimeter better than him.

    Now let’s get to the scales. Now there is something to fill the different levels with about fighting evil. Only let’s not forget the evil the scale is here referring to.

  13. Ymarsakar Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

    This is the first time I’ve seen things like that. So it’s come about that I’ve arrived at similar conclusions from an entirely different methodology and starting point. Which is important to avoid group think. Not every single one of these individual free thinkers are…. actually free, when I analyze the fundamental premises and bios. It’s just that many of us didn’t pay attention to stuff like this but now that we do, we are bringing some interesting experience and perspective to an old “mutual interest” problem.

    Some of the supposed experiments on mind control are interesting though.

    http://www.kickthemallout.com/article.php/Video-Darren_Brown_Mind_Control

    Of course, I won’t believe it until I’ve totally verified the experiment using my own sources and resources. One can never tell, after all, what is fake and what is true without direct experience of a kind.

  14. artfldgr Says:

    Duh
    It’s a certain attitude of “we don’t care about anyone but us -but we want you to care about us too – even though we don’t care about you” that kind of leaves them unsupported until the bad is so bad, its not fitting for anyone… but by then it’s too late.

    Mr. Stern pointed out the inconsistencies in Mr. Weinstein’s earlier comments about a project about Jews defending themselves during the Holocaust. The producer replied that the justification for using a gun is “when you’re marching a half of a million people into Auschwitz.”

    Mr. Weinstein does not seem to know that the Nazis were able to confiscate the guns that the Jewish people owned based on Germany’s government registry.

    Also, the producer said he would have used a gun to stop from going to a concentration camp if he “found a gun, and if that was happening to my people.”

    this is why i can list out over 10,000 people who helped jews – BY NAME…
    But you can’t list 200 in Europe that did the same for them…
    Heck, George Soros pretended to be a Christian, and helped confiscated jews property, how many people will remember that it was a Jewish person taking stuff, and not what he posed as?
    Christians were persecuted as well, but yet they took up the charge of making their situation worse by helping, sometimes resulting in whole towns being exterminated. They are being attacked in the US now, and what kind of help, camaraderie, mutual ends, etc.?
    but… no matter how much someone else helps, stands up… or like Witold Pilecki a man who VOLUNTEERED for auswitz to take the place of another. or the priest i mentioned who volunteered to starve to death to help (and was sainted)
    where are the equivalents ANYWHERE?
    there are more jews in the world than latvians ever existed…

    Jews are a protected class, but the 6 million others are not… why?
    why do they get to go to school, have families, while those who helped them, died for them, died with them, are called privileged and are not “their people” too?
    Care to read the policy papers and then figure out who is writing them and being so erudite as to feminism, socvialism, and all that?
    This is why it will be as yarmarskar says.. :(
    building bad blood does not just go away…
    why do you think Europeans didn’t care? Because guess who spoke like this then? Would you depend on someone sharing the same ills, but does not consider you worth anything cause your not “their people”. when it came time to buy something, they refused to buy from anyone else… but wanted everyone to buy from them.
    Just take a look at what they did with the knockout game!!!
    whites for YEARS have been attacked.
    what did jewish men, and writers, playwrites, journalists, news producers, and so on do?
    NOTHING… in fact they helped bury it… (just list out who is in the places of choice in media… they earned the place, but use it for what?)
    Eventually it caught up to them, and then what did they do? did they recognize that whites were being attacked and they were white?
    nope..
    They dicided to rename the game to knockout a jew game, take it unto themselves, ignore the dead victims and others, and make it their own! And erase the other victims, and got a public reaction that then has police helping them…
    Basically they did nothing for years, not even covering it.
    Then it hit them, and they yelled and the police and everyone stood up. a perfect opportunity to say, why has everyone ignored it till it got so far as this!!! But they erased the others!!!
    Now the police protect the protected class, and “to hell” with the other victims…
    [yet they want those victims to stand with them, change things to help, and so on! Or why write the articles to mobilize those same people?]

  15. artfldgr Says:

    trying to finish my post… otherwise, it will be misconstrued!!!

  16. artfldgr Says:

    Groups Of Teens In Brooklyn Are Playing A Game Called ‘Knock Out The Jooo’ – Carolyn Moss Business insider…
    Thugs target N.Y. Jooos in disturbing ‘Knockout’ game
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/20/thugs-targeting-jews-disturbing-knockout-game/
    The message was clear..
    You can beat up on those other people…
    We don’t care…
    But if you beat up on one of us, we WILL make a big worldwide anti-Semitic thing, take it to ourselves, and get a response that is denied the other
    Jerusalem post: Sucker punch: Brooklyn Jooows targeted in ‘knockout’ attacks
    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/Sucker-punch-Brooklyn-Jews-targeted-in-knockout-attacks-333465
    Teen gangs accused of playing ‘Knock out the Jooow’ in Brooklyn
    http://rt.com/usa/crown-heights-brooklyn-jewish-681/
    Laurie Cumbo Says ‘Knockout’ Attacks In Brooklyn Caused By Resentment Of Jewish Success
    Right.. Not that its hatred against whites, and jews are whites… right? A clear case of go ahead, hurt those people whose grandparents didn’t join in our extermination… as long as its not us…
    Basically, how can you stand WITH someone who does not stand with you?
    its sad…
    but how can people love a people, who dont care about those that care about them?
    as a community, these people are making sure there is not going to be support for the jewish people… because the average jewish person is not in a position to defne themselves the way these others are defining them by their own writing.

    think Harvey Weinstein did a solid for “his people”?
    nope.
    he isolated them, and stands representative.

  17. Don Carlos Says:

    it is ironic that Jews were in the forefront of the pro-black civil rights movement, but never got any black thanks, even today.

  18. artfldgr Says:

    Art’s position that his knowledge comes 100% from what he reads

    that is not my position, as you can read crap too
    but if you read enough on all sides, and such, you start to see more clearly as to who is doing or saying what. with the lefts things often tiny, limited, and self serving to the point of making up inane facts one can look up to validate…

    my position is that I THINK… MOST DONT..
    even those that think they think dont…

    if you want a point on this, then read Maslow “heirarchy of needs”, chapters 11 and 12
    specifically about the parts where most people could not see how normal was unhealthy… (paraphrased)

    [real self actualized people do not care if they wear the label in others eyes, or even that there is a label of that sort - in fact the left is so romantically in love with this, they have dont to the meaning what they have done to karma... (karma in the west replaces god with a universal principal that knows good and bad and will act on it... but their is no such principal, and that is not at all waht karma is about)

    you want to know me? peg me? then read this

    Maslow held that self-actualizers are metamotivated by such B-values as truth, goodness, beauty, justice, and simplicity.

    want to know why i read so much...
    i value truth...
    why do i stand where i am politically rather than cash in? goodness.. .
    why do i take pictures, invent, write music, and will not stop till in the grave? beauty
    why do i take the position i take. moral justice.
    why do i cut through everything? simplicity

    duh

    Four criteria must be met before a person achieves self-actualization:
    (1) absence of psychopathology
    (2) satisfaction of each of the four lower level needs,
    (3) acceptance of the B-values, and
    (4) full realization of one's potentials for growth.

    i answer history here
    i study it, and study physics, psychology, art, and on and on

    currently working in research computing...
    on the side writing a verilog program to create a chip for resubmission to plos 1 and giving the billion dollar solution to big data away to the world...

    working on a uv thing for a child with porphyria

    my boss and the jews hospital has said i can never get a raise or promotion no matter what i do... i disagree... but we shall see...

    i am constantly making the world a better placve one way or anotehr every day as much as i can

    but sometimes, the caryatid must succumb
    then rise again..

    read the list and notice that most who claim to be self actualized cant fit the list!!!!!!!!

    (1) more efficient perception of reality, meaning that self-actualizers often have an almost uncanny ability to detect phoniness in others, and they are not fooled by sham;
    [my message here has never ever changed from day 1... i have ALWAYS known this game was going on, even when a child]

    (2) acceptance of self, others, and nature;
    [this one puts every leftist off the list, they dont accept nature... they dont accept that we have natural ways, and natural reactions.. like removing our help and regard when someone says "my people" and you know your not one of them]

    (3) spontaneity, simplicity, and naturalness, meaning that self-actualizers have no need to appear complex or sophisticated;
    [bare bones honest, i am what i am. never claimed anything else, the claims never change... ]

    (4) problem-centered which is the ability to view age-old problems from a solid philosophical position;
    [swish!]

    (5) the need for privacy, or a detachment that allows self-actualizing people to be alone without being lonely; [this one sort of fits, but i do have issues with being incredibly isolated most of the time. being alone is ok, but sometimes yuo dont wnat to be, and thats when its a bit of an issue... hard to share insight, art, love, beauty, when alone]

    (6) autonomy, meaning that they no longer are dependent on other people for their self-esteem;
    [i am dependent on others for rewards i need to earn to do things... but beyond that could care less... in fact, being honest and all that alienates you more than just goin with the flow]

    (7) continued freshness of appreciation and the ability to view everyday things with a fresh vision and appreciation;
    [i get my frisson on almost every day... :) and given the chance, i can show others what and how i see... too bad neo wont let me prove it by showing some of my work here and let everyone brutally take it apart... (i find it fun)]

    (8) frequent reports of peak experiences, or those mystical experiences that give a person a sense of transcendence and feelings of awe, wonder, ecstasy, reverence, and humility;
    [getting my frisson on... :) a connection to everything can be felt... the one line that always summed it up for me was from van morission.. - AS we sail into the mystic]

    (9) Gemeinschaftsgefühl, that is, social interest or a deep feeling of oneness with all humanity;

    if neo wants to know the families that saved jews and others… look to this quality… its what makes saints… volunteers… people who are willing to LIVE so much they die trying.. rather than never live trying to get through life with the minimum as if there is a prize waitinf for them… life IS the prize… dont waste it… you will find that those people who saved jews, saved christians and are not remembered, and took the plave of others, or chose to leave their families to do what they had to do… how many are self actualized…

    It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.

    i know if this goes to the fan… they will kill me
    just as they killed people in hue…
    or a thousand places i could name in space and time

    how many families of such people are the target across time? even now, the same politics has exterminated my family the rest of the way by policy..

    (10) profound interpersonal relations, but with no desperate need to have a multitude of friends;
    [i have almost no friends... but what i have, people would be blessed to have just one of them.. ]

    (11) the democratic character structure, or the ability to disregard superficial differences between people;
    [ie. the understanding of real, cargo cult, superficiality - ie better put. we look for substance over emptyness. philosphy is not liked as it has the size and apparance of something big, but when you bite into it, its sticky fliff like cotton candy]

    (12) discrimination between means and ends, meaning that self-actualizing people have a clear sense of right and wrong, and they experience little conflict about basic values;
    [duh]

    (13) a philosophical sense of humor that is spontaneous, unplanned, and intrinsic
    to the situation;
    [and often sardonic, or looking to the infinite goof!]

    (14) creativeness, with a keen perception of truth, beauty, and reality;
    [bother neo to show my work! :) ]

    (15) resistance to enculturation, or the ability to set personal standards and to resist the mold set by culture.

    no matter what… you have seen that i do not give in to social pressure… one only has to go back and look at how i have been piled on, and never waivered.

    i do not care to have the appelation
    but i do care that others know that there is a better higher way to live…

    sadly.. it was old education methods that were destroyed that maximized this kind of person (as far as that could be done)

    a few people ahve had the nerve to ask me:
    you worked with super models and the pretties women in the world, why did you marry a indonesian woman who, to them, had comparatively less to compete with…

    but maslow has the answer they cant understand
    Most have D-Love… i am lucky i dont… :)

    Self-Actualization and Creativity
    Mark Runco and his colleagues used the Short Index of Self-Actualization to assess self-actualization and found a positive relationship between self-actualization scores and two measures of creativity. Although the relationships were not strong, they suggest that, as Maslow’s hypothesized, creativity is at least partly related to self-actualization.

    wish neo would show some of my stuff…
    i can use all the air play i can get
    especially since my life is over
    (as deemed by those who are over me now)

  19. Nick Says:

    I’m very new around here. Do anti-Semitic rants happen a lot?

  20. artfldgr Says:

    one last thing (i hope, everyone hopes)

    when what yarmarskar says comes to pass in some way

    the most suprised will be the feminist white middle class woman who voted against her mates, and sealed the deal!!!

    they will wonder why their men will not stand up and fight, and why they are being included in the pile!!!!

    i wish i took the time to put up the rules..
    they do exist.. and it talks about how these targets will try to deal their lives away, become gay, pretend to be liberal, marry outside their race… all these are deemed by the side that makes ovens not to be the ways people live, but the ways people live to prove they are not oppressors… so you can be sure that the people who thnk they have a ticket, will find out its not valid.. (so their changing sides and not standing together. means they all fall alone)

    but, the women will be the ones with the biggest surprises…

    once the split between men and women finishes being mined out… race comes next..

    so its women vs men amonb the largest group
    till this caused them to decline and not have any power
    once this is done, then you do the same to the women who you used to smash the dominant western culture.

    ie. you use diamonds to cut diamonds…

    the old society could not be cut, unless you turned it against itself… so they looked to womens natures, denied they have them, then took advantage of a nature delineated in the bible for over 2k years (see eden, eve, and the model).

    they turned, as in germany where they discovered the methods, the women against their mates… claiming the husgbands have oppressed their women for centiries… (how would this ever be resolved if we cant resolve the civil war in the US less than 200 years… this problem is 2 billion years or more going back to the invention of sex as a darwiian thing to them!!!!)

    so if whites are 80%…
    you turn 40% against the others…

    for every woman that does not have children
    another has to have 5
    but to save the population, the others have to be attacked by the 40% telling them they are cows, and all that!!! so that reduces the population..

    now that democide is almost finished…
    what comes next?

    what comes next is that this group of women, wont have numbers and supporet when the whole thing comes down on them!

    ie. the immigrants and others feel oppressed by whites and they mnow that like germany, a white woman like a jewish woman, makes more white men!!!

    if you have kept up with their writings this all would be asl clear as a bell on a dark night.

    once the numbers drop till they are not needed anymore to control the outcome… the society will turn atgainst them and make a distinctino between women of color and them…

    dont think so?
    well when i was a kid, lucy and ricky ricardo were not a mixed mairratge as spain was part of europe

    now, spanish is another race, and the racists of the past were too stupid to not attack lucy show…

    it would be interesting to watch
    but WWIII/WWIV wll happen first
    why?

    well, when a tribe becomes too small to defend itself the way europe, uk, usa, japan, and all the feminist countries, there is only one outcome…

  21. neo-neocon Says:

    Nick:

    No, they don’t.

  22. Nick Says:

    Good to hear. Interesting site so far!

  23. southpaw Says:

    “In the end, though, there is something mysterious about it all: the problem of evil, with which humankind has been wrestling for aeons”

    Is it really evil, or are we all wired to do what we feel is in our best interest to survive? Those who participate vigorously are arguably no more evil than those who do nothing. They’re both are doing what they believe will benefit their survival.
    Those that resist are ones who risk their own survival. I’d argue everyone on the ladder from do-nothings to the vigorous participants are acting on the same instinct, just in different ways. I don’t know if it’s evil, or if it’s an animal threat response. Fear of one’s own well being seems to be a powerful de-motivator to keep people from doing what they consciously know to be right.
    Those who actively resist are instinctively different. Self preservation isn’t their first instinct.
    You only need to look at how many people will stand by and watch another human be harmed and not intervene, to see how fear paralyzes people who normally pass for good citizens.

  24. neo-neocon Says:

    southpaw:

    I disagree. Those on the top rungs (active and willing participants in evil) are not acting out of fear for the most part. The middle rungs often are, but sometimes it is disinterest.

  25. PaulJ Says:

    It’s also interesting that he wrote down three categories when he only needed to list two. His categories were “Jews”, “Republicans”, “Whites”. Aren’t nearly all of us Jews white?

  26. southpaw Says:

    Neo – I agree the behavior is evil, and maybe they are inherently evil. And no less reprehensible whatever the cause.
    The fact that Zimbardo could take a random sample of people, put them in charge of others, and watch them turn into a brutally agressive bunch of thugs makes me think that human behavior is complex and frightening beyond what we can classify as simply evil or good.
    Similar experiments you know have shown random people will carry out orders to do great harm others and not question authority. I have to believe as awful a reality as it is, some are born to this- to instinctively follow and it’s somehow rooted in their DNA from thousands of years of evolution – their response to these situations (cowardice or indifference, or willingness to follow the leader) allowed them to survive.
    I am probably full of it because I’m not a trained psychologist of any sort- I’m just fascinated and horrified at the same time at what some people will do, and why. And being an engineer, tend to think more about reasons that involve tangible explanations – but I readily acknowledge that your’s is as good as any.

  27. Ymarsakar Says:

    When a tool obeys the user, the evil is not in the tool but in the user.

    The issue with human society is not obedience, but with who exactly is being obeyed.

    Those who obey Good Leaders are good. Those obey evil leaders, do evil. Those who obey smart leaders like Obama, think they are smart.

    As for being white, Hitler thought the Aryans in Iran were the master white race. So it all depend son definitions of whiteness. For the Left in the US, their definitions are reliant on hate mongering black peasants in Democrat fiefdoms.

  28. Ymarsakar Says:

    that is not my position, as you can read crap too

    The specific example you used was Art of War, by Sun Tzu. Or rather it was the piece I introduced wherein you said that people can learn the tactics and strategies by just reading the wisdom and acquiring it. My position was that wisdom and battle tactics weren’t acquired by reading a book, although it may help. The conversion ratio isn’t 1 to 1.

    So no, we weren’t talking about reading Esquire or something of that kind.

  29. Trusting in Authority | Sake White Says:

    [...] Just a little comment I wrote in reply to this post. http://neoneocon.com/2014/01/15/the-ladder-of-evil/ [...]

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About Me

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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