February 18th, 2014

The real story of the murder of Kitty Genovese

Read it.

And then wonder whether the NY Times ever gets anything right.

18 Responses to “The real story of the murder of Kitty Genovese”

  1. Ymarsakar Says:

    Propaganda is not about getting things right. It’s about making sure people think the right thoughts, at the right time, at the right place. Even if the NYTimes weren’t subferior propagandists that believed in their own hype, they would still at least attempt to follow the rules.

  2. Ymarsakar Says:

    When it comes to changing the world, partial truths are sufficient.

    When it comes to changing oneself, sufficient to save one’s own life or the lives of those around, then absolute truth is required. Illusions are insufficient, self deceptions are insufficient to change anything there.

    For those that cannot face the truth or cannot take action on their own judgment, by themselves, for themselves, Changing the World via journalism is a neat fit. Similar to how terrorists and Utopians change the world for the “better”.

  3. Steve Says:

    While the story about Kitty Genovese isn’t true, society has gotten worse for good samaritans.

    Quoting from the story:
    I live in a new gilded age in a golden city. But sometimes the cracks show, even here. The façade crumbles and you find yourself naked, in solitary confinement, in a wretched, feces-stained prison.
    How? As a result of my efforts to help injured bicyclists by calling 911, I was, in short order: separated from my friend, violently tackled, arrested, taken to county jail, stripped and left in a solitary cell. I am writing this story because, if it could happen to me, it could happen to you, and I feel the need to do something to help prevent this brutality from propagating.
    Also Link

  4. Mike Says:


    It’s still a question?

  5. Don Carlos Says:

    The vicious malice of Abe Rosenthal toward his fellow New Yawkers, to whom he sold the NYT with “all the news” and made a damn good living is truly wondrous to behold. This is a man who would piss on his infant daughter if given half a chance. And not to put out a fire.

    Baddest thing is he is not alone.

    We need to set up an Abe Rosenthal Society to which we can appoint members.

  6. Ymarsakar Says:

    I moved to San Francisco 9 years ago for graduate school at UCSF and currently run a company that brings transparency to the food industry and employs 12 people. It may appear to be self-serving for me to say so, but I am a rational and peaceful person whom no reasonable being would deem a threat.

    This guy acts like some dude who went to China and then started urinating in the public streets and calling the Chinese fascists that should have been taken out by the Taiwanese patriots.

    Real politek and intel analysts with good survival instincts would know automatically what would happen then.

    You are in SF. You as a slave, livestock, zombie are not allowed to call for help for other slaves. That’s just how it is in SF for 99% of those not deemed the Ruling Class.

    People need to connect the dots. It’s not a civil rights violation. It’s not a human rights violation. THEY don’t consider you human to begin with.

    People don’t want to believe that death squads walk the streets of every day America. But that’s not really important. The Left will make people believe, whether they like it or not.

  7. Sam L. Says:

    I did not know this, but…no, not surprised. Haven’t trusted NYT for many years.

  8. dustoffmom Says:

    I remember this so clearly and it is a story that has stuck with me for all these years. I was 12 at the time and recall vividly my Mother in particular and my parents circle discussed this often. Everyone was so horrified by it. It did alter society’s views immensely and not just in NYC. I was raised in Cincinnati and it was huge news there and started many a discussion and stern warning about so called ‘bad neighborhoods’ and the need to avoid certain areas. How odd to now find it was all basically yellow journalism of a sort intended to shock and stun the public. Thanks for posting this Neo.

  9. vanderleun Says:

    With any justice Winston Moseley is stabbing Abe Rosenthal right now in Hell. And not just for Kitty.

  10. Sgt. Mom Says:

    There was another debunking of the Kitty Genovese standard narrative a couple of years ago – cannot remember where I read it … but it is appalling how Mr. Rosenthal ran with the narrative, and basically calumniated a whole neighborhood and people.
    There was a horrific murder in my own neighborhood, last November, it was. Believe me, everyone was out on their doorsteps, taking an active interest.
    Of course, this was in Texas, where I believe most everyone has a pretty impressive private armory… and being relative hicks, still very interested in what is happening in our neighborhood.

  11. Ymarsakar Says:

    Authority cannot be trusted. If it isn’t something you saw for yourself or verified using triangulation, it’s not something a human with free will would believe in. Natural human instinct is to not trust in strangers.

    But modern democracy in the US decrees that if you don’t understand how the microwave works, all you have to do is trust in the “experts” and everything will work out fine. That’s not the attitude of autonomous humans, btw.

  12. blert Says:

    To show you why there is some reluctance to get involved:

    I once phoned 911 to report a fire — roof top — the building was under construction across the street.

    The FIRST FIVE MINUTES of my call was directed at getting the ‘goods’ on me. So obvious was this, I realized why no-one else nearby dared pick up their cell phones.

    The operator insisted that I provide a street address. I had none.

    She wanted my address. I had none. I didn’t even remember the street I was calling from.

    This argument went back and forth for two minutes. She was indignant that I wouldn’t cough up the street address. I finally raged at her:” Everything is new and under construction. There are absolutely no addresses on ANYTHING!”

    Telling her it was within one-block of the I-50 freeway and a local major avenue was just not good enough.

    I finally got her off the line by informing her that the local news helicopter had finally arrived. By this time a touch of smoke had transformed into towering flames five meters high! In a cloudless sky the smoke now reached to 100 meters.

    As you might imagine, she sported a NAM accent.

    I figure you only get ONE fire call in your life time.

    Anything beyond that will have the authorities strip-searching you for matches.


    Putting slow-witted fools at the nexus of decision is the recipe of disaster.

    Having inculcated such fools into attacking the honor and veracity of the general public… is the height of folly, itself.

    The operative assumption that just anyone can answer a distress call is flamingly wrong.

    “Lone Survivor” illustrates just how touchy it can be to be timely with a phone call. When news comes from an unexpected source or means — there is emotional-logical lock-up. Such events break up ones harmony, ones bliss.

    In my case, playing phone games while the building is roaring into a full blaze — ’tis to torment.

  13. Beverly Says:

    Well, I have to disagree about the NYPD: my dealings with them have all been cordial! and I’ve been here for 30 years. Never arrested, of course, but I did call 911 for a breaking and entering in progress, the cops came and caught the bad guy and his obscene girlfriend, and they never gave me a lick of trouble about it. IN fact, it was exciting watching the cops, guns drawn, get on the car park roof and also go in through the garage door to get the miscreant.

    When they arrested the miscreant’s slatternly girlfriend, she started with a spew of nonstop obscenities and profanities. The cops, bored, kept taking notes, and said, “Just keep it up. There you go,” and wouldn’t even bother to cuss her back. Then they bundled the pair into a cop car and drove off.

    I’m sure there was some sort of plea deal, because they caught the guy red-handed (I’d heard the crash of broken glass and saw him vaulting in through the high window in the car park’s door: spotted his football jersey and the number as well. Black guy.) He had broken in, apparently to burglarize the cars in the garage of whatever he could find. His girlfriend was driving a beat up old car and was waiting in the street to drive him away after.

    I have to say, it was VERY gratifying to be able to make that phone call! That was in, oh, 1990 or so, on 14th Street in Manhattan.

  14. Beverly Says:

    I called 911 one other time, also with good results. I was up late as usual, and saw the fire alarm lights in the landmark building across the way start to flash their strobe alarm. The fire dept. guy showed up in about 2 minutes (they have a pretty sleepy beat and probably were hoping for some real action). Turned out to be a false alarm.

  15. Ymarsakar Says:

    The cops didn’t bust him for calling 911. That’s a misleading title and header.

    They busted him because he wouldn’t disappear. Like Zimmerman, as obedient Democrats they followed the orders of the 911 operators. To certain doom.

  16. gs Says:

    Re Rosenthal on the Genovese murder:

    In effect, the NYC elite used this human tragedy to smear the NYC middle class.

  17. HT Says:

    Genovese? “debunking”?

    OK, it wasn;t 38 witnesses, it was 36 to 40 witnesses; they later came up with about 60 who were aware of an ‘altercation’. The attack came in two stages with a 5 minute break when Mozer yelled out the window.

    But it was half an hour of a woman being stabbed to death, screaming almost all the while. The initial story was not technically perfect, but the story was accurate. The fact is nobody called, nobody intervened.

  18. neo-neocon Says:


    Apparently you did not read the article.

    Someone intervened immediately, yelling at Mosely and frightening him away.

    Another someone called the police almost immediately, and told a dispatcher what he had seen and heard, and the location. But the police did not come; if they had, the second (fatal) attack would not have occurred.

    Others did not know what was happening; they only heard or saw snippets of it and did not understand what was actually occurring.

    Another woman, hearing the final, soon-to-be-fatal attack (which occurred in the lobby of the building), raced to help, potentially risking her own life.

    38—or 36, or 40 people—did not WATCH the attack, as the Times asserted in that lede. Two people”watched” it and did nothing, as the linked article describes. The word “witnesses” doesn’t mean the people watched the thing unfold and understood what was happening. It means they later spoke to police about something they either saw or heard, in the case of the Genovese murder usually something quite minor and confusing.

    The initial story was NOT accurate. Nor is your statement, “nobody called, nobody intervened.”

    I wonder why you are so wedded to defending the Times and its original reporting.

    Here’s plenty more [emphasis mine]:

    Her cry was heard by several neighbors but, on a cold night with the windows closed, only a few of them recognized the sound as a cry for help. When Robert Mozer, one of the neighbors, shouted at the attacker, “Let that girl alone!” Moseley ran away and Genovese slowly made her way toward the rear entrance of her apartment building. She was seriously injured, but now out of view of any witnesses.

    Records of the earliest calls [note plural] to police are unclear and were not given a high priority by the police. One witness said his father called police after the initial attack and reported that a woman was “beat up, but got up and was staggering around.”

    Other witnesses observed Moseley enter his car and drive away, only to return ten minutes later. In his car, he changed to a wide-brimmed hat to shadow his face. He systematically searched the parking lot, train station, and an apartment complex. Eventually, he found Genovese who was lying, barely conscious, in a hallway at the back of the building where a locked doorway had prevented her from entering the building. Out of view of the street and of those who may have heard or seen any sign of the original attack, Moseley proceeded to further attack her, stabbing her several more times. Knife wounds in her hands suggested that she attempted to defend herself from him. While Genovese lay dying, Moseley raped her. He stole about $49 from her and left her in the hallway. The attacks spanned approximately half an hour.

    A few minutes after the final attack a witness, Karl Ross, called the police. Police arrived within minutes of Ross’ call. Genovese was taken away by ambulance at 4:15 a.m. and died en route to the hospital. Later investigation by police and prosecutors revealed that approximately a dozen (but almost certainly not the 38 cited in the Times article) individuals nearby had heard or observed portions of the attack, though none saw or were aware of the entire incident. Only one witness, Joseph Fink, was aware she was stabbed in the first attack, and only Karl Ross was aware of it in the second attack. Many were entirely unaware that an assault or homicide was in progress; some thought that what they saw or heard was a lovers’ quarrel or a drunken brawl or a group of friends leaving the bar when Moseley first approached Genovese.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.


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