Before Brendon Eich, they came for the Mormons — 18 Comments
Actually, first they came for the pagans and the queers, then the Jews, then the heretics. This is a very, very old pattern. What happened to Brendan Eich is simply a mild version of what was done to queer folk for centuries.
There is no “good” or “bad” moral bullying, there is just moral bullying. If the “culture wars” are just about who gets to be the moral bullies, whose bigotries win, then both sides deserve to lose.
Knowing and loving gay people, I understand and respect their humanity, which almost sounds absurd even to say. Of course.
The hatred and intolerance is not a gay phenomenon, it is a Leftist phenomenon.
There is the Left and the non-Left. It really is as simple as that.
There is not nor has there ever been a liberal / progressive / Left in my lifetime. What appeared to be “liberal” positions, such as advocacy for pole-dancing and piss-Christ, have only ever been tactical positions. Even advocacy of the Skokie Nazis was a tactical position intended to cause doubt for free speech.
Younger members of the non-Left have a fuzzy notion that “liberal” positions have been anything other than dissembling. Leftists have always been above all about winning political power, Wilson and Roosevelt included.
The Democrat party has never, ever been afflicted with integrity or truth. I have nothing but disdain for Republicans, but at least they are to some extent burdened by a conscience.
One reason why we are probably decades away from getting a non-Left pov into the discussion, if ever, is the cluelessness of non-Leftists, their delusion in believing there are subtle and consequential distinctions among the Left.
Yes, Henry Jackson and Joe Lieberman existed. So did Moynihan. And so do all the many many liars on the Left who lie to get elected, or who even belong to the Republican party.
There is an unbroken, year to year history from the many elections where Democrats used the word nigger as their primary tactic, to the days where they used the word racist.
It has been and is all in service to the corporate government notion that a few people know better than you, and you are bad, bad, bad, and what they are doing is good, good, good. And, btw, they should have power over you.
Lieberman got kicked out of the Democrat party for a reason. Heretics aren’t tolerated. It’s not a political party, it’s a death cult. Those are not the same.
Ymarsakar:
Throw another clump of cells on the barbie. That didn’t work so well for them, when people recognized those clumps of cells as distinctly human in origin, and part of a Barack, Harry, Nancy, or other human life. Yeah, the Democrat Party has earned a reputation as an immoral cult, which sacrifices human lives for money, sex, ego, convenience, and population control. A progressive demand to normalize other dysfunctional behaviors was predictable and forthcoming. Still, it’s interesting not only what they do support, but their selective exclusion of what does not profit their bottom line.
I have hope that others, like Tona, will see the connections between the Democrat party of Civil War I and the Democrat party of Civil War (soon to be) II.
If people don’t connect the dots, it’s not up to me to convince them. That job is for the Left’s to do, as they have the boots of totalitarianism required to stomp people’s heads in. After a few stomps, even idiots and intellectuals will figure out what’s what. Or they go into a coma and die.
Lorenzo from Oz:
Actually, first they came for the Jews, then the Christians. The Jews survived in the diaspora. While the Christians survived through democratic influence. Their opponents, other than Muslims, succumbed to homosexual, abortive, and other dysfunctional behaviors; but, not before murdering, enslaving, and torturing Christians by the millions. The pagans lost because they indulged in behaviors antithetical to evolutionary fitness. Then came the atheist mass murderers and slavers of the 20th century, under the flags of communism and socialism, who committed their offenses first through outright domination, then through advocacy for abortion and other dysfunctional behaviors. Only Islam, as it directs propagation through domination, has managed to compete with secular cults for the worst and greatest violations of human and civil rights.
That said, it is illegitimate to judge people as a class, unless their principles engender their behavior. It is furthermore illegitimate to infer or extrapolate from anecdotal or exceptional evidence, to color or condemn men and women as a collective whole.
Well, at least they’re not killing us this time. Just call me Former Marine’s Mormon Mom.
Yeah, any time we’re not being chased into Canada/Mexico to avoid jail, or our children dragged into police stations to rat out their parents’ plural marriage, or being denied the franchise, or having a Extermination Act drawn up on us, or a considerable chunk of the standing army sent to “quell” our “rebellion,” it’s a good day for Mormons.
However, I expect it will get worse this time, too, before it gets better. After judicial fiat enshrines SSM in the law, those churches who won’t perform SSMs will lose legal sanction on their weddings, church-run universities will lose accreditation, etc.
Many of the people now expressing discomfort or outrage at Eich’s firing will shake their heads and wonder why we can’t just get with the program, but they won’t defend or befriend us.
Internal Exile, I think it’s called.
Yay.
I think that boycotts are a legitimate tactic. It’s a matter of individual choice who we prefer to do business with, or not.
I remember back during the Chick-fil-A brouhaha a couple of years ago, when Gabriel Malor at Ace of Spades called for a boycott. I disagreed with him and supported Chick-fil-A myself (it was the most fun I’ve ever had standing in a long line), but I also defended his right to call for a boycott, and the right of anybody to join him.
So the anti-Proposition 8 people had the right to call for a boycott of Mormon-owned businesses, and each individual has the right to join or not, as they see fit.
But we’ve turned a corner in the past week with the Brendon Eich case. That had nothing to do with voluntary boycotts. Forcing a man out of his job for his political views is straight-up totalitarianism.
Keep in mind that it is Leftists who are behind this. They are using militant homosexuals and angry minorities as pawns to advance their agenda to divide, weaken, and ultimately destroy American society. And the Left will happily use them as cannon fodder as well. They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.
We are all enemies of the state; get used to it and prepare accordingly. Ayn Rand was a true prophet. Too bad so few have understood her message. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
“They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.”
Read that, and consider just how far the situation has spun out of control since then. Consider the things that are now normal that we never dreamed possible back then, such as government agents groping civilians for the crime of boarding an airplane, the IRS being used as a political weapon against the opposition, the NSA spying on our every phone call and text message, or local police conducting SWAT raids on the slightest pretext, destroying private property and shooting dogs.
In the contest between liberty and totalitarianism, there is no way that we are going to be able to vote our way out of this. Both major parties are on the side of government, and the government is an implacable enemy of liberty.
It will come down to a force of arms and bloodshed. The sooner it gets started the better. The longer this goes on, the more people will accept it as normal, and the less children will believe there was ever such a thing as liberty. They will eventually come to regard it as an ancient superstition, like Zeus and Ra.
Parker’s link is hilarious. I remember seeing that video. Major language warning though if you watch it.
Also consider what one person wrote at VC some odd years ago. A very solid representative of the moral majority there, at least back in the past.
Also, I need to point this out. I don’t think it even remotely likely that our government will descend into tyranny from either the right nor the left in my lifetime. We may idiotically vote the economy of the nation down the tubes. We might even continue descending into a cultural sewer. But totalitarianism? No. I do not believe that the American people are even capable of letting the pendulum swing that far without some incredibly massive national trauma (i.e. multiple nuclear strikes across the country). Anything less will simply cause us to tighten our belts and drive on. It’s what we’ve done since before the Revolution even.
Posted by: MikeD at November 4, 2008 02:25 PM
From VC, with a hint of irony. Not to single MikeD out, but a lot of people had the same ideas as him during that time period.
They couldn’t connect the dots… well, how about now, connecting the dots yet People?
One of the Left’s old old counter propaganda messages is that single humans armed with firearms, sidearms, and rifles are powerless against the US military’s tanks and helicopters.
But wait, think back on what they said about the Dragon’s Teeth in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Weren’t the locals and terrorists there just undertrained, underfunded, and often retardedly suicidal civilians armed with little more than what we’re talking about here? Yet they put the US military into a Quagmire with less than 100 million civilians and less than 3% of that population as combatants…
Even the Left’s propaganda is inconsistent if you poke it long enough.
While I wasn’t using Firefox (I was using Safari), all the talk about different browsers made me download and try Epic. I found that from a link at Instapundit.
Epic claims to be a private browser that blocks tracking. It also has a feature that uses IP proxies which can be turned on and off. I’ve only been using it for a half hour or so, but it looks interesting so far, and it’s working fine. It’s available for Mac and PC. It imported my bookmarks from Safari, but I have to re-enter my name and e-mail before commenting here. Epic deletes that kind of stuff when quitting.
“Keep in mind that it is Leftists who are behind this. They are using militant homosexuals and angry minorities as pawns to advance their agenda to divide, weaken, and ultimately destroy American society. And the Left will happily use them as cannon fodder as well. They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.” rickl
Pretty much agree with a few caveats. Specifically, the left needs legal means to change the Constitution. That is most easily accomplished under martial law during a time of sustained national emergency. IMO, race riots don’t quite achieve the tipping point needed. Which is why Obama’s policies both foreign and domestic are designed to generate that emergency.
However regarding; “They may have the numbers, but we got the guns.” parker
and related; “they put the US military into a Quagmire with less than 100 million civilians and less than 3% of that population as combatants…”
Equating Vietnam’s jungles and Afghanistan’s rugged mountains with America’s fruited plains is to engage in wishful thinking. No way does a conventional guerrilla style civil war prevail against an American military supporting the “lawfully elected” federal government. The amateur thinks tactics, the professional thinks Logistics… and IMO, logistics do not favor a conventional guerrilla style American revolution.
Which is not to imply that it is hopeless. If memory serves, it was rickl who pointed out that 4th generation warfare is the way in which to fight.
It’s my tentative understanding that 4th generation warfare is a decentralized resistance, operating through independent cells in distributed networks and is a leaderless resistance that targets the political will of their opponents, both the leadership and their supporters. 4th generation warfare targets the enemy’s political, economic, media and intellectual… infrastructural personnel. It goes after the intellectual leaders and media, as much as the political and ignores the military leadership since they are controlled by the civilian leadership. The Ayers, Sean Penn’s, Maher’s and George Soros would be targeted as much as the Pelosi, Reid and Schumers…
“they have only Bill Clinton to blame. When the Philanderer in Chief, frustrated with Serbian intransigence in 1999, changed the rules of engagement to include the political leadership, news media and the intellectual underpinning of his enemy’s war effort, he accidentally filed suit under the Law of Unintended Consequences.
They [the administration] will fight to the last ATF agent or to the last oath-breaking soldier. [But] Will they fight to the first senior bureaucrat, the second Congressman, the thirdnewspaper editor, the fourth Senator, the fifthWhite House aide? Can they stand Bill Clinton’s rules of engagement? This is what 4GW means in an American civil war in the 21st Century.” [my emphasis]
Let us all pray that this does not come to pass, for in such a civil war, any victory will be a Pyrrhic victory for the American experiment in representative democracy within a republic will have failed… and while perhaps it already has, the ‘fat lady’ has yet to sing and the proof of that is that we can still protest Eich’s cultural crucifixion.
Like rickl, I saw the link to the Epic Privacy Browser at Instapundit, and have been using it today and most of yesterday.
I’m also doing a “bake-off” with Opera version 12.16, which I like much better than the most recent version. Rickl mentioned that privacy functions are built into Epic both for convenience and security. This is well explained in their FAQ. I love the browser’s built-in proxy server. This can be engaged and disengaged simply by clicking an icon. When engaged, the proxy server prevents other web sites from seeing your ip address. It looks as if you’re coming from New Jersey, where the proxy server is located. You can test this by opening ipleak.net in another folder.
The Epic browser FAQ also explains that they, like other browser companies, make their money from Google. Whenever you use Google for an internet search, the browser type you’re using is recognized by Google. They then pay the browser company. If you install another browser, Firefox loses that money. Yes, one person has a tiny effect; but billions of searches, by millions of people, make a difference. We really can do something — ok something small — but it’s something.
No way does a conventional guerrilla style civil war prevail against an American military supporting the “lawfully elected” federal government.
The idea that there is a conventional guerilla is the fool’s gold here.
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Actually, first they came for the pagans and the queers, then the Jews, then the heretics. This is a very, very old pattern. What happened to Brendan Eich is simply a mild version of what was done to queer folk for centuries.
There is no “good” or “bad” moral bullying, there is just moral bullying. If the “culture wars” are just about who gets to be the moral bullies, whose bigotries win, then both sides deserve to lose.
Knowing and loving gay people, I understand and respect their humanity, which almost sounds absurd even to say. Of course.
The hatred and intolerance is not a gay phenomenon, it is a Leftist phenomenon.
There is the Left and the non-Left. It really is as simple as that.
There is not nor has there ever been a liberal / progressive / Left in my lifetime. What appeared to be “liberal” positions, such as advocacy for pole-dancing and piss-Christ, have only ever been tactical positions. Even advocacy of the Skokie Nazis was a tactical position intended to cause doubt for free speech.
Younger members of the non-Left have a fuzzy notion that “liberal” positions have been anything other than dissembling. Leftists have always been above all about winning political power, Wilson and Roosevelt included.
The Democrat party has never, ever been afflicted with integrity or truth. I have nothing but disdain for Republicans, but at least they are to some extent burdened by a conscience.
One reason why we are probably decades away from getting a non-Left pov into the discussion, if ever, is the cluelessness of non-Leftists, their delusion in believing there are subtle and consequential distinctions among the Left.
Yes, Henry Jackson and Joe Lieberman existed. So did Moynihan. And so do all the many many liars on the Left who lie to get elected, or who even belong to the Republican party.
There is an unbroken, year to year history from the many elections where Democrats used the word nigger as their primary tactic, to the days where they used the word racist.
It has been and is all in service to the corporate government notion that a few people know better than you, and you are bad, bad, bad, and what they are doing is good, good, good. And, btw, they should have power over you.
Lieberman got kicked out of the Democrat party for a reason. Heretics aren’t tolerated. It’s not a political party, it’s a death cult. Those are not the same.
Ymarsakar:
Throw another clump of cells on the barbie. That didn’t work so well for them, when people recognized those clumps of cells as distinctly human in origin, and part of a Barack, Harry, Nancy, or other human life. Yeah, the Democrat Party has earned a reputation as an immoral cult, which sacrifices human lives for money, sex, ego, convenience, and population control. A progressive demand to normalize other dysfunctional behaviors was predictable and forthcoming. Still, it’s interesting not only what they do support, but their selective exclusion of what does not profit their bottom line.
I have hope that others, like Tona, will see the connections between the Democrat party of Civil War I and the Democrat party of Civil War (soon to be) II.
If people don’t connect the dots, it’s not up to me to convince them. That job is for the Left’s to do, as they have the boots of totalitarianism required to stomp people’s heads in. After a few stomps, even idiots and intellectuals will figure out what’s what. Or they go into a coma and die.
Lorenzo from Oz:
Actually, first they came for the Jews, then the Christians. The Jews survived in the diaspora. While the Christians survived through democratic influence. Their opponents, other than Muslims, succumbed to homosexual, abortive, and other dysfunctional behaviors; but, not before murdering, enslaving, and torturing Christians by the millions. The pagans lost because they indulged in behaviors antithetical to evolutionary fitness. Then came the atheist mass murderers and slavers of the 20th century, under the flags of communism and socialism, who committed their offenses first through outright domination, then through advocacy for abortion and other dysfunctional behaviors. Only Islam, as it directs propagation through domination, has managed to compete with secular cults for the worst and greatest violations of human and civil rights.
That said, it is illegitimate to judge people as a class, unless their principles engender their behavior. It is furthermore illegitimate to infer or extrapolate from anecdotal or exceptional evidence, to color or condemn men and women as a collective whole.
Well, at least they’re not killing us this time. Just call me Former Marine’s Mormon Mom.
Yeah, any time we’re not being chased into Canada/Mexico to avoid jail, or our children dragged into police stations to rat out their parents’ plural marriage, or being denied the franchise, or having a Extermination Act drawn up on us, or a considerable chunk of the standing army sent to “quell” our “rebellion,” it’s a good day for Mormons.
However, I expect it will get worse this time, too, before it gets better. After judicial fiat enshrines SSM in the law, those churches who won’t perform SSMs will lose legal sanction on their weddings, church-run universities will lose accreditation, etc.
Many of the people now expressing discomfort or outrage at Eich’s firing will shake their heads and wonder why we can’t just get with the program, but they won’t defend or befriend us.
Internal Exile, I think it’s called.
Yay.
I think that boycotts are a legitimate tactic. It’s a matter of individual choice who we prefer to do business with, or not.
I remember back during the Chick-fil-A brouhaha a couple of years ago, when Gabriel Malor at Ace of Spades called for a boycott. I disagreed with him and supported Chick-fil-A myself (it was the most fun I’ve ever had standing in a long line), but I also defended his right to call for a boycott, and the right of anybody to join him.
So the anti-Proposition 8 people had the right to call for a boycott of Mormon-owned businesses, and each individual has the right to join or not, as they see fit.
But we’ve turned a corner in the past week with the Brendon Eich case. That had nothing to do with voluntary boycotts. Forcing a man out of his job for his political views is straight-up totalitarianism.
Keep in mind that it is Leftists who are behind this. They are using militant homosexuals and angry minorities as pawns to advance their agenda to divide, weaken, and ultimately destroy American society. And the Left will happily use them as cannon fodder as well. They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.
We are all enemies of the state; get used to it and prepare accordingly. Ayn Rand was a true prophet. Too bad so few have understood her message. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
“They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VqG_4ADFfQ
This says it all. They may have the numbers, but we got the guns. Don’t tread on me i a lesson in civics.
Here is a piece by Francis W. Porretto I read earlier tonight. It was a repost of something he wrote in 2001.
From My Cold Dead Hand
2001.
Read that, and consider just how far the situation has spun out of control since then. Consider the things that are now normal that we never dreamed possible back then, such as government agents groping civilians for the crime of boarding an airplane, the IRS being used as a political weapon against the opposition, the NSA spying on our every phone call and text message, or local police conducting SWAT raids on the slightest pretext, destroying private property and shooting dogs.
In the contest between liberty and totalitarianism, there is no way that we are going to be able to vote our way out of this. Both major parties are on the side of government, and the government is an implacable enemy of liberty.
It will come down to a force of arms and bloodshed. The sooner it gets started the better. The longer this goes on, the more people will accept it as normal, and the less children will believe there was ever such a thing as liberty. They will eventually come to regard it as an ancient superstition, like Zeus and Ra.
Parker’s link is hilarious. I remember seeing that video. Major language warning though if you watch it.
Also consider what one person wrote at VC some odd years ago. A very solid representative of the moral majority there, at least back in the past.
Also, I need to point this out. I don’t think it even remotely likely that our government will descend into tyranny from either the right nor the left in my lifetime. We may idiotically vote the economy of the nation down the tubes. We might even continue descending into a cultural sewer. But totalitarianism? No. I do not believe that the American people are even capable of letting the pendulum swing that far without some incredibly massive national trauma (i.e. multiple nuclear strikes across the country). Anything less will simply cause us to tighten our belts and drive on. It’s what we’ve done since before the Revolution even.
Posted by: MikeD at November 4, 2008 02:25 PM
From VC, with a hint of irony. Not to single MikeD out, but a lot of people had the same ideas as him during that time period.
They couldn’t connect the dots… well, how about now, connecting the dots yet People?
One of the Left’s old old counter propaganda messages is that single humans armed with firearms, sidearms, and rifles are powerless against the US military’s tanks and helicopters.
But wait, think back on what they said about the Dragon’s Teeth in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Weren’t the locals and terrorists there just undertrained, underfunded, and often retardedly suicidal civilians armed with little more than what we’re talking about here? Yet they put the US military into a Quagmire with less than 100 million civilians and less than 3% of that population as combatants…
Even the Left’s propaganda is inconsistent if you poke it long enough.
While I wasn’t using Firefox (I was using Safari), all the talk about different browsers made me download and try Epic. I found that from a link at Instapundit.
Epic claims to be a private browser that blocks tracking. It also has a feature that uses IP proxies which can be turned on and off. I’ve only been using it for a half hour or so, but it looks interesting so far, and it’s working fine. It’s available for Mac and PC. It imported my bookmarks from Safari, but I have to re-enter my name and e-mail before commenting here. Epic deletes that kind of stuff when quitting.
https://www.epicbrowser.com/
“Keep in mind that it is Leftists who are behind this. They are using militant homosexuals and angry minorities as pawns to advance their agenda to divide, weaken, and ultimately destroy American society. And the Left will happily use them as cannon fodder as well. They couldn’t care less if gays or blacks are killed in the violent backlash they fervently hope to trigger, in order to justify a final, ultimate crackdown on our liberty. It’s what they’re planning and hoping for.” rickl
Pretty much agree with a few caveats. Specifically, the left needs legal means to change the Constitution. That is most easily accomplished under martial law during a time of sustained national emergency. IMO, race riots don’t quite achieve the tipping point needed. Which is why Obama’s policies both foreign and domestic are designed to generate that emergency.
However regarding;
“They may have the numbers, but we got the guns.” parker
and related;
“they put the US military into a Quagmire with less than 100 million civilians and less than 3% of that population as combatants…”
Equating Vietnam’s jungles and Afghanistan’s rugged mountains with America’s fruited plains is to engage in wishful thinking. No way does a conventional guerrilla style civil war prevail against an American military supporting the “lawfully elected” federal government. The amateur thinks tactics, the professional thinks Logistics… and IMO, logistics do not favor a conventional guerrilla style American revolution.
Which is not to imply that it is hopeless. If memory serves, it was rickl who pointed out that 4th generation warfare is the way in which to fight.
It’s my tentative understanding that 4th generation warfare is a decentralized resistance, operating through independent cells in distributed networks and is a leaderless resistance that targets the political will of their opponents, both the leadership and their supporters. 4th generation warfare targets the enemy’s political, economic, media and intellectual… infrastructural personnel. It goes after the intellectual leaders and media, as much as the political and ignores the military leadership since they are controlled by the civilian leadership. The Ayers, Sean Penn’s, Maher’s and George Soros would be targeted as much as the Pelosi, Reid and Schumers…
Let us all pray that this does not come to pass, for in such a civil war, any victory will be a Pyrrhic victory for the American experiment in representative democracy within a republic will have failed… and while perhaps it already has, the ‘fat lady’ has yet to sing and the proof of that is that we can still protest Eich’s cultural crucifixion.
Like rickl, I saw the link to the Epic Privacy Browser at Instapundit, and have been using it today and most of yesterday.
I’m also doing a “bake-off” with Opera version 12.16, which I like much better than the most recent version. Rickl mentioned that privacy functions are built into Epic both for convenience and security. This is well explained in their FAQ. I love the browser’s built-in proxy server. This can be engaged and disengaged simply by clicking an icon. When engaged, the proxy server prevents other web sites from seeing your ip address. It looks as if you’re coming from New Jersey, where the proxy server is located. You can test this by opening ipleak.net in another folder.
The Epic browser FAQ also explains that they, like other browser companies, make their money from Google. Whenever you use Google for an internet search, the browser type you’re using is recognized by Google. They then pay the browser company. If you install another browser, Firefox loses that money. Yes, one person has a tiny effect; but billions of searches, by millions of people, make a difference. We really can do something — ok something small — but it’s something.
No way does a conventional guerrilla style civil war prevail against an American military supporting the “lawfully elected” federal government.
The idea that there is a conventional guerilla is the fool’s gold here.