June 17th, 2014

Ace has…

a good idea:

“Child Migrants” Surge into NYC, Overwhelming the System

I’m glad it’s happening in NYC. In fact, I think it would be a good idea for any state experiencing this problem to put their “child migrants” on a bus to one of two destinations: New York City, and Washington DC.

The White Liberal Urban Self-Proclaimed Elites in those cities are making this problem — they should be confronted with it, and forced to deal with it themselves.


However, something gives me pause: isn’t that sort of thing exactly what Cloward-Piven wanted? The idea was that the flooding of the system would lead to a collapse into more socialism, not less. And it would start in New York and similar liberal cities.

Here’s Piven’s original article outlining the strategy [emphasis mine]:

The strategy is based on the fact that a vast discrepancy exists between the benefits to which people are entitled under public welfare programs and the sums which they actually receive…

The discrepancy is not an accident stemming from bureaucratic inefficiency; rather, it is an integral feature of the welfare system which, if challenged, would precipitate a profound financial and political crisis. The force for that challenge, and the strategy we propose, is a massive drive to recruit the poor onto the welfare rolls…

A series of welfare drives in large cities would, we believe, impel action on a new federal program to distribute income, eliminating the present public welfare system and alleviating the abject poverty which it perpetrates. Widespread campaigns to register the eligible poor for welfare aid, and to help existing recipients obtain their full benefits, would produce bureaucratic disruption in welfare agencies and fiscal disruption in local and state governments. These disruptions would generate severe political strains, and deepen existing divisions among elements in the big-city Democratic coalition: the remaining white middle class, the white working-class ethnic groups and the growing minority poor. To avoid a further weakening of that historic coalition, a national Democratic administration would be con-strained to advance a federal solution to poverty that would override local welfare failures, local class and racial conflicts and local revenue dilemmas. By the internal disruption of local bureaucratic practices, by the furor over public welfare poverty, and by the collapse of current financing arrangements, powerful forces can be generated for major economic reforms at the national level…

The ultimate objective of this strategy–to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income–will be questioned by some. Because the ideal of individual social and economic mobility has deep roots, even activists seem reluctant to call for national programs to eliminate poverty by the outright redistribution of income. Instead, programs are demanded to enable people to become economically competitive. But such programs are of no use to millions of today’s poor…

It’s goes on, but you get the idea. I haven’t read the whole thing, but skimming the rest of it I can see that her examples seem to come from New York. The idea was to overload the welfare system there—and the system of other similarly liberal cities—during a Democratic federal administration, so that a federal program would take over because people would demand it.

In fact, the Cloward-Priven strategy may have actually led to the financial crisis in New York City in 1975:

The socialist test case for using society’s poor and disadvantaged people as sacrificial “shock troops,” in accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, was demonstrated in 1975, when new prospective welfare recipients flooded New York City with payment demands, bankrupting the government. As a consequence, New York state also teetered on the edge of financial collapse when the federal government stepped in with a bailout rescue.

So there was a federal response, but not exactly the one Piven had hoped.

38 Responses to “Ace has…”

  1. Matt_SE Says:

    There was eventually a state-level response, too. It was called Rudy Giuliani.

  2. Matt_SE Says:

    I didn’t know Cloward-Piven was planned to start in liberal cities.

    In light of that, it’s an idiotic plan: so you conclusively demonstrate that the welfare system doesn’t work, then the people naturally cry out for more of it?!?

    In the words of Orwell, “Some ideas are so ridiculous that only an intellectual can believe them.”

  3. rickl Says:

    Matt_SE Says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    In light of that, it’s an idiotic plan: so you conclusively demonstrate that the welfare system doesn’t work, then the people naturally cry out for more of it?!?

    These are socialist true believers we’re talking about.

    So yes.

  4. NeoConScum Says:

    Ohhhh, I love Ace’s approach to the Ish-Shoe!! Flood NYCity(Leftist-Marxist Mayor and plenty of his ilk.). Flood San Francisco, Beverly Hills and Sacramento California with zillions of the little blighters.

  5. J.J. Says:

    The center piece of this whole idea that: “The strategy is based on the fact that a vast discrepancy exists between the benefits to which people are entitled under public welfare programs and the sums which they actually receive…”

    That is such lunacy. Only someone who has no concept of how wealth is created and where it stems from could believe such rubbish. Then I remember how many people are attracted to the idea of “financial justice” or fairness and equality. And how many of our fellow citizens (especially academics) are economic illiterates. Then I realize that, to them, it all makes perfect sense.

    That is why Barack Obama’s motivations are so hard to discern. Because he believes this kind of crap and acts accordingly.

  6. kit Says:

    I am so mucho stupido. If they are not stopped and turned away at the border, as they should be, why are they being bused deep into the nation and not put on planes and buses and sent back. Where are state’s rights?

    And the gov of Texas said besides the Mexicans and Central Americans, there are Syrians (read: terrorists) coming through Mexico, too.

    These illegals are not our future. They are our future felons.

    A president is supposed to protect his citizens from invasions like this. Evil Obama is doing this as part of his evil plan to destroy us. The system is overwhelmed We will not be able to heat our homes this winter, but obama and that man/woman he is married to are going to grab more money and power.

    I used to treasure my American citizenship. Now, I treasure my freedom which is God given. I do not owe this US anything. The old US, yes, but not this one.

    Obama has embedded Muslims into every department of government. It is them or us.

  7. Ymarsakar Says:

    Equality is a fiction.


  8. Ymarsakar Says:

    While predicting events like this years ago doesn’t confer any specific strategic benefits, probably only minor tactical preparation, the primary asset I think is acquired by people who looked square on at this various future fugues, is emotional balance.

    We or they are emotionally prepared. For people that are just accepting it now, the negatives are so harsh they are having difficulties dealing with it. But if you emotionally accepted things like this, and even worse, years ago, you would be able to think logickally with more ease. Emotional damage caused by the Left, you can heal or rebalance sooner.

    Now that most of the American population is looking for scapegoats and targets for their angst, displacement, and projection, they are going to find a smaller monkey to throw shat at, to relieve their own stresses. That can cause problems for people. I’ve already seen things like this start rolling the ball.

  9. Inkraven Says:

    The only way this works is if we start housing as many of them as possible in elites’ neighborhoods.

  10. Ymarsakar Says:

    The Ayers Mansion and such areas don’t even let blacks and Mexicans in, except as gardeners and lawn mowers.

    They will truly try to keep the riff raff out, until communism “redistributes” things to equality.

  11. rickl Says:

    kit Says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    I used to treasure my American citizenship. Now, I treasure my freedom which is God given. I do not owe this US anything. The old US, yes, but not this one.

    Just today I saw an article in the Wall Street Journal that said record numbers of Americans are renouncing their citizenship. So far it’s mainly for tax reasons, but I would expect the number to increase as America becomes increasingly totalitarian.

    The article is behind the subscription wall, but I read it in the dead tree edition. It’s worth it if you can get a copy.

    I remember another blog a few years ago where one of the commenters predicted precisely this, which enraged an administrator who banned her. I knew she was right and quit in solidarity.

  12. waitforit Says:

    What Cloward Piven, hereafter known as Cloven, the foot of the devil, wanted, was a good ass kickin. We’ll be obliged to administer it.

  13. waitforit Says:

    Satan is a liar and a parasite. If not actually real (and I’m not sure) he certainly was anthropomorphisized due to previous events such as we are experiencing (Rome the republic into Rome the tyranny; England the empire into England the craven). That’s why Scripture should not be so readily rejected, especially for the new and exciting findings of scientists who have been raised and conditioned to smirk at and disprove the conclusions of ages.

  14. jon baker Says:

    Cloward-piven-They already have partly accomplished this with the banking system…the government helped to create the mortgage backed securities from loans they gave to people who could not afford them, thru Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and also they strong armed the banks into giving loans to people who coiuld not afford it, under the guise of anti-discrimination, then “Free market capitalism” and bank deregulation got blamed when the banks collapsed.

  15. jon baker Says:

    on my other browser I still had that link to the HUD archives from circa 2000 where they were talking about creating mortgage backed securities over the next decade…Some one here gave that link to me twice

  16. Don Carlos Says:

    IMO, there is only one method by which the Obamites can respond re the Cloward-Piven, and that is the Fed monetizing the Treasury Dept as benefit-disbursor, and our Emir pushing out Executive Orders of emergency benefits to the “needy”.
    Otherwise, the “needy” cannot inundate to any Cloward effect a system that has insufficient money and personnel, with benes already very widely distributed. It would be like VA patients storming VA hospitals in anger. No useful effect.
    Thus, I think a case can be made for shipping the illegals to NYC, Boston, SF. Bring on Cloward-Piven, I say. What are they going to use for ammo, feces? Let the Leftists and their churches deal with them. Their lives will be made miserable.

    I think Cloward-Piven needs to be challenged by reality. This is not your 1930s with millions of unemployed men in suits and hats lining up at soup kitchens. I will turn my back on any non-English speaking 13 year-old Hispanic. Period. At some point one must harden one’s heart.

  17. Promethea Says:

    In Chicago, the city of strict gun control and population decline, our lovely mayor (future presidential candidate) is solving all problems by reducing free parking spaces and adding bicycle lanes everywhere. Yes, that should solve our problems. We must lower our carbon footprint and Save the Planet.

    Lucky for us Chicagoans, we don’t have any illegal aliens here. We have only EBT card users and undocumented dreamers. We will raise property taxes because Pensions. However, our minimum wage is rising soon, so everyone will be richer.

    Come to Chicago, everyone. The City of Tomorrow. Your tourist dollars are welcome. The people who live here, not so much. Think of us as the future Disneyland of flyover country.

  18. neo-neocon Says:

    Don Carlos:

    The original Piven article proposed a guaranteed income. This was the last paragraph I quoted in the post above:

    The ultimate objective of this strategy–to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income–will be questioned by some. Because the ideal of individual social and economic mobility has deep roots, even activists seem reluctant to call for national programs to eliminate poverty by the outright redistribution of income. Instead, programs are demanded to enable people to become economically competitive. But such programs are of no use to millions of today’s poor.

  19. waitforit Says:

    Give us faith so we’ll be safe.


  20. Steve Says:

    TEARJERKER of a Video: Dad goes out on first date – with his little daughter


  21. waitforit Says:

    I put my blue suede shoes on
    In America. Billy Joel sings and brings
    America. We build our future on
    America. The freedom and beauty of

    You can’t break the love of
    Our America. Enemies tell false our
    America. Their hell is not our
    America.The freedom and beauty of

    Tell me are you a Christian CHILD?

  22. dicentra Says:

    It can’t be Cloward-Piven.

    Glenn Beck talked about C-P on his program and Ms. Piven got death threats, meaning that it’s all a bunch of tin-foil-hat conspiracy-mongering by that buffoon who called Obama a racist.

    Beck also explained what the Caliphate was and that the Islamists were aiming for it, and Chris Matthews called him Loony Toons.

    So you can just stop it right now with that kind of talk.

  23. Ymarsakar Says:

    The Left uses death threats as a way of intimidating the opposition, or making them feel guilty as a way to atone for “unequal” levels of power.

  24. expat Says:

    What really drives me crazy about this income inequality fantasizers is that they don’t care about individuals. I’ve experienced the rural poor (part of my family), the inner city welfare poor in the 70s, the middle class blue collar people, the academic bubble types, and a few really rich. All of these groups are composed of individual people. Some never think about what they want or can achieve in their lives; others know this from the beginning; still others get hit over the head by unpleasant reality and are inspired by their own ability to survive.
    I am not much on donating money to big causes, but I do like to help people I know at times when I feel my help will be a boost for them. You have to listen and see what makes their eyes light up. Forget the GD check lists that bureaucrats go by. They reduce people to the level of a Perdue chicken.

  25. Lizzy Says:

    Besides the C-P strategy just being crazy – we have to destroy welfare in order to create some magical new welfare/national income – the current situation with the millions of illegals is going cause a lot more than an economic crisis.
    They’re bringing with them diseases and illnesses that will require treatment, crime, kids that will need to be educated (who likely don’t speak English), and they’ll need somewhere to live once they arrive in NYC, Boston, wherever else they’re being transported to by DHS.

    This has the potential to not just destroy welfare, but damage public health & overload hospitals, public schools, public housing and public safety. And then there will be many other unexpected impacts, such as terrorists slipping in with the child masses (like the Tsarnevs), etc. I consider this one of Obama’s most damaging actions since once distributed, these foreigners will be hard to remove (so no legislation can fix it) and it will have a serious impact on the path of our country. The UK Labor party purposely increased immigration in attempt to dilute conservative citizens in their own country, and look where there are now.

  26. Artfldgr Says:

    Quick ASIDE:

    Obama has now blew the oil gig big time…

    He sits on Keystone XL so that Warren Buffets Berkshire Hathaway’s 100% ownership of BNSF rail can ship the oil instead, while Tom Steyer, a billionaire who would have shares of berskhire, gets his shock troops to hold it steady.

    he holds off so long that keystone decides to ship by rail over the border then pour it into the pipes…

    and voila, Enbridge gets Canadian approval for the pipe which will move just under 600,000 barrels to the pacific and off to China. Suncor, Husky, and a few others now have a way to get that tar sands oil to the sea and off to China to use, and the US not only gets no oil, it doesnt even get transit taxes, storage taxes, the taxes from converstions before shipping, and on and on.

    One more Feather In the Big O’s Big O

  27. Artfldgr Says:

    NEO: The idea was that the flooding of the system would lead to a collapse into more socialism, not less. And it would start in New York and similar liberal cities.


    the short answer.. yes.

    the longer answer is that such people do not have any idea or concernt of the implications or the changes that also happen.

    that is, and i think we have mentioned it before, their engineering sucks because they imagine the rest of the world remains the same, and so their adjustment seems like it woudl work

    but, as schrodinger shows, we are part of the experimetns and things we observe and affect, and so, our adjustments make changes to the whole system…

    ie. the whole universe

    it may seem invalid, however, we like to round our numbers and concepts to things large enough for us to care about (and everyting else is invisable and nonexistent unless otherwise cogitated)

    so, cloward and piven imagines a world that remains the same as their change happens.

    they do not see WWIII at the hands of the BIS to reset the economics by seizing the cash of the deseased and reseting books for countries that are stuck.

    i am not one for banking conspiracies, as they kind of get a lot of it wrong, as its a narrative for the ignorant not the informed. however, this does not convert active world controllers pitting us at war to tele tubbies of finance. they have great influence.

    but note, we ARE and have been in WAR for decades
    the COLD WAR never ended, it sublimated to a new form… one in which the west was tricked as to the change in the nature of a state, which is the lie they wanted to hear, especially the left… now socialism will be “done right”.

    but no such thing occured.
    but backing off, they allowed the door to open
    that is, as long as they strugged, we pushed on the door, they pushed on the door and not much got through either way.

    the minute they stopped, we fell through, and lots and lots of stuff came wandering through the open doorway.

    Real eyes realize real lies!!!!


    “From chaos comes order… ”

    “Deny with our lips what we do with our hands”

    “The holocaust was legal”

    Вся власть – Советам!

    Arbeit Macht Frei (Work will set you free – Auswitz)

    Edem das Seine (You get what you deserve – Bukenwald)

    Behindertsein ist schön

    Bolje rat nego pakt, bolje grob nego rob

    Bigger cages! Longer chains!

    Догнать и перегнать Америку

    Come and take it!

    Black Power!

    Eat the Rich

    Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer

    England Will Fight to the Last American

    Every Man a King

    Everything Within the State, Nothing Outside the State

    Führer befiehl, wir folgen dir!

    Had enough?

    Heim ins Reich

    Hey, Hey, LBJ, how many kids you kill today?

    this has gone on a long long time…

    each of the phrases above have key histories that are ultimately relative… some more than others….

    how many are remembered?
    if they were, then what?

  28. Ymarsakar Says:

    People might find out that the US strategic oil reserves are less than 50% by the end of 2016. Just something to consider and find out, if possible.

  29. Don Carlos Says:

    Neo on 6/17:
    Cloward and Piven were economics-ignorant and very short-sighted as to strategy. Sure you can set a guaranteed income, just like you can a minimum wage. These result in inflationary waves; the bellshaped curve shifts rightward; permanent unemployment surges. There is also the small matter of the enactment and enforcement of the enabling legislation.

    This stuff cannot be crammed down unless totalitarianism has already been imposed a la Lenin. That is why Gramsci is way more important than C-P.

  30. Soviet of Washington Says:

    Expect that flooding the system won’t lead to more Socialism, but something much older…

    “The peoples of the western world have for some generations now been familiar with systems where armies and navies are rigidly subject to civil authorites, and they are wont to regard the military rebellion as something exceptional and monstrous. Actually the human beings who have lived on this earth in security from the brutal rule of the soldier are so few in number, on the background of the whole of human history, as hardly to count. The military tyranny in some form or other is in fact the common rule in human society; and even in the best-ordered societies…any serious disturbance of an established order of a nonmilitary type is likely to result in a reversion to the military dictatorship.”

    Arthur Livingston – Preface to Gaetano Mosca’s The Ruling Class 1938

  31. blert Says:


    In the same vein:

    When a nation hits the financial wall it cuts ballast.

    The military is the LAST place the powers that be will cut during unrest.

    C-P’s resource drains just end up being zeroed out of the budget… usually it’s a quantum drop.

    Entire government sectors get shut down, the civil servants being lucky if they’re ONLY unemployed.

    (Bourbon tax farmers/ collectors were liquidated to a man, if he could be caught. Such was the fate of Antoine Lavoisier, the Father of Chemistry. His role as a tax collector cost him his neck not withstanding pleadings from all of Europe to spare the genius.)


    C-P dreaming is of an infantile rage — rather like smearing feces all over ones playroom.

    For it proposed for its adherents what they were ALREADY doing professionally.

    It (C-P) transformed the drudgery of paper work into a crusade against the Man.

    It also answers to a feminine logic: it’s all for the babies all of the time. (regardless of finances?)

    What makes perfect sense inside a family becomes perversion when writ large. For now Powers is spending other peoples monies on yet other peoples children. Such a calculus is zero-sum.

    The fact that her impulses are causing the breakup of tens of thousands of families — with all of the grief that entails — does not even register on Powers.

    What a ghoul.

  32. Col. Bunny Says:

    Artfldgr, Don Carlos, and blert are correct. C-P depends on a static analysis.

    C-P genius strategists think it will all go as planned. Tick tock. That there will be some clamor to “fix” the crisis created by imposing a federal redistributionist fantasy that will “end poverty.”

    It is to laugh. “No plan survives contact with the enemy” as the insightful military maxim instructs. The more likely scenario — when the aggrieved, oppressed, wretches of the ghettos start clamoring, “More! More” and looting and burning — will be a violent push back neutralizing that underclass response completely. End of pressure on the federal government to “do something.”

  33. Ymarsakar Says:

    The question is whether American patriots have the guts to recognize the Left as an enemy. American patriots love talking about Nuking Mecca, Iran, and what not. They think Islamic Jihad is a threat. What about the Left is, what are Americans willing to do about that?

  34. T Says:


    “The [Cloward-Piven] idea was that the flooding of the system would lead to a collapse into more socialism . . . . ” highlights the false premise on which Cloward-Piven is based. Socialism can not exist on its own; it is a parasitic system which relies on wealth generated outside of itself (the “other people’s money” which one eventually runs out of).

    Socialism is a wealth-management system (a wealth-redistribution system) not a wealth creation system. Thus, contra Cloward-Piven, one cannot cause the collapse of the system on which socialism relies for the wealth it redistributes and expect autonomous socialism to rise in its place. Every parasite requires a host.

    Piven even admits to this without recognizing it:

    The ultimate objective of this strategy–to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income . . . .

    If one destroys capitalism one destroys the incomes it produces. If one destroys those incomes one cannot impose a guaranteed annual income, As they used to say in the Soviet Union: “They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.”

  35. Don Carlos Says:

    T says,
    “Socialism is a wealth-management system (a wealth-redistribution system) not a wealth creation system.”

    Needs to be on billboards all across the land, and taught everywhere.

  36. Matt_SE Says:

    Here we go!!!


    Wow. Rick Perry REALLY wants another shot at president! (Jan Brewer should join him in a show of solidarity)

  37. Matt_SE Says:

    And that’s the thing: even Obama’s lawlessness provides opportunities for leadership, if a politician has the will and imagination to seize it.

    Rick Perry +10

  38. Richard Saunders Says:

    Just send all those children to Sidwell Friends in DC where the Obama kids go. Michelle will solve the immigration problem in a heartbeat!

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.

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