Malaysian passenger plane reportedly shot down over Ukraine
Could this be? Horrendous if true:
A passenger plane with 295 people on board has been shot down as it flew above eastern Ukraine, according to aviation sources.
The Malaysia Airlines plane, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was travelling at an altitude of 10km (6.2 miles) when it was shot down, Russia’s Interfax reported.
The Boeing 777 was brought down by a Buk ground-to-air missile, an adviser to the Ukrainian interior ministry quoted by the news agency said.
The adviser said 280 passengers and 15 crew members who were on the plane are all believed to have died…
Officials in Ukraine denied the country’s armed forces were involved in the shooting down of the plane.
It’s certainly not yet clear what has happened. I wonder if it will ever be clear exactly what has happened.
[NOTE: You may be surprised to learn how many civilian airliners have been shot down, seemingly by mistake, over the course of civil aviation history.]
[ADDENDUM: Now it’s being reported that there may have been 23 Americans on board.]
This is not a hand held rocket attack, it appears to be a ground to air missile and how hard is it to use satellite images to determine who shot it and then figure out why. The why is what stumps me unless it was mis identified as being a military threat and then again who and why.
I am beginning to think that we are entering a precarious international point of no return when some country’s going to take umbrage with another and actually start some serious aggression that sucks everyone else in. Kind of like a hundred years ago this summer.
These days everything that happens could always be Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand Redux.
War by misadventure.
It happens. Frequently.
10 km equals 33,000 feet altitude for us non-Euros. Of course it was an ground-air missile. No human hand or shoulder could hold such a thing.
Two replacement orders for Boeing, though, and a tough year for Malay Air if self-insured.
The Russians are famous for not being able to tell the difference between civilian and military aircraft.
My guess: Russian SAM used by pro-Russian separatists with itchy trigger fingers.
I can’t see how this garners either them or Putin support, so it must’ve been a screw-up.
Warzones are like that.
If Ukraine now cracks down hard on the separatist regions, I doubt many European pundits will cry about it.
Since Ukraine stands to benefit, it will doubtless spawn all sorts of conspiracy theories.
It shouldn’t be too hard to validate where the missile came from.
FYI (from AOSHQ):
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: displacement activity
Performance by an animal of an act inappropriate for the stimulus or stimuli that evoked it. It usually occurs when an animal is torn between two conflicting drives, such as fear and aggression. Displacement activities often consist of comfort movements (e.g., grooming, scratching). [eating burger and fries]
Five plus years of displacement activity and counting.
reports are saying it was a BUK missile
The Buk missile system (Russian: “Бук”; beech, /bÊŠk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles
Rebel commander Igor Strelkov – widely believed in Kiev to be a serving Russian military intelligence officer – tweeted a boastful message shortly after Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was downed. The tweet indicated he thought his rebels had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian Air Force. The Antonov is a turboprop transport plane of a type used by Ukraine’s forces. The message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine “Progress”. ‘We warned you- do not fly in “our sky”.
This Malaysia outfit is beginning to look risky. Why would you fly a commercial airliner over a war zone? Answer — save money on fuel.
These missiles wouldn’t happen to be something America shipped to Ukraine, would they?
no Yarmarskar… they are russian…
and just in case you think its a shoulder weapon:
MANPADS, shoulder-mounted weapons systems, are incapable of reaching that altitude, suggesting that a ground-based system like Bukwas used. Buk can hit planes at altitudes up to 72,000 feet.
Strelkov linked to two videos, reportedly of the downed airplane. After news broke that the Malaysian Airlines plane had gone down, he deleted the post about the AN-26.
This reminds me of Hussein telling Putin’s second that “he would be more flexible after the election, there’s only one election left”. Then Med says “I will pass this on to Putin”.
In a what was supposed to be close mike meeting. I wonders what else they have been managing and orchestrating in those close door meetings that only Reuters is allowed in for.
The Ukraine incident, the Iranian problem, Syrian war, Libyan war, all have been touched by the US Regime one way or another.
no Yarmarskar… they are russian…
Just because they are Russian (who sell to anyone and everyone) doesn’t mean they came from Russia. Intel analysts can’t assume what everyone assumes, because usually that’s the way to get stupid and trapped in the box.
Is this an example of the “more flexibility” that Obama was promising to Putin before the 2012 election?
Ymarsakar, to quote the press
“All roads lead to the Russians to some degree,” said a U.S. official.
can you read what you wrote.
“Just cause they are Russian doesn’t mean they came from Russia? ” do you understand what the n at the end of the word means?
No, the firing came from Russian soldiers in the Ukraine.
before you spout, realize that the separatists don’t have cargo planes… so there is nothing for the Ukrainians to shoot down, unless russia is using its air force attacking the ukraine and supplying them…
so the only planes in the air are ukrainian or foreign.
ie. nothing ukrainians want to shoot, one thing of the two the russian separatists want to shoot. including one who claimed to shoot it down, took movies of it, bragged of it, then deleted it when it turned out not to be a Ukrainian supply plane
kind of hard to pin it on the ukraine when their opposition has no air force, and so, nothing to shoot.. unless its russian airforce proper invading space. which would not come from that direction.
care to elaborate a different concept?
and i should point out that Russia does NOT sell to everyone, and what it sells is often crippled compared to what its troops use, and on top of that, it often loans troops with equipment – like fighter pilots for fighter planes.
please get your facts right before you propagandize
and notice the progression of Yarmarskar comments
first. blame the US
then. cast doubt and aspersions towards enemy of russia
etc
ie. Yarmarskar is basically always acting the soviet dupe.
never the other way.. EVER…
kind of like watching a coin land heads up every time.
cue the Egyptian river..
Blackbox Sent To Moscow For Investigation…
well, the world will never see that data…
Obama gives crash 40 seconds before telling jokes..
on another note, pine for DDT
Health officials are reporting that for the first time, U.S. mosquitoes are spreading a virus that has been tearing through the Caribbean.
Two people in Florida have domestically-acquired chikungunya (chik-en-GUN-ye) infections, officials said Thursday. In both cases, they said, a person infected with the virus after visiting the Caribbean was then bitten again by an uninfected mosquito in Florida, which then transmitted the illness further.
Conversation 1
B = Bes, G = Geranin
(B 16:40) Just shot down a plane. “Miner”’s group. It fell near Yenakijeve.
(G 16:40) Pilots, where are the pilots?
(B 16:40) Went to look for and take photos of the shot down plane. It smokes.
(G 16:40) How many minutes ago?
(B 16:40) 30 minutes ago, approximately
Having examined the crash site, terrorists came to conclusion that they shot down a civilian plane.
Conversation 2
G = “Grek”
M = “Major”
(G 16:33) Yes, “Major”
(M 16:33) So the plane was shot down by [the guys from] Chornukhyne. From Chornukhyne checkpoint. Cossacks that stand in Chornukhyne. The plane disintegrated in the air, near Petropavlovskaya mine. The first 200th, [we have] found the first 200th. Civilian.
(G 17:32) What do you have there?
(M 17:32) In short, darn it, that was for sure a civilian board.
(G 17:32) Got it. Are there many people there?
(M 17:32) Fuck that, splinters fell right to the yards.
(G 17:32) What board that was?
(M 17:32) I have not figured that out yet. I have not been to the main wreckage yet. I am just looking at where the first bodies began to fall. There are remnants of internal brackets, chairs, bodies.
(G 17:32) Got it. Are there any weapons?
(M 17:32) Absolutely nothing. Civil things, medical lumps, towels — of that kind. Toilet paper
(G 17:32) Are there any documents?
(M 17:32) Yes, Indonesian student’s [documents]. From Thompson’s University, darn it.
Conversation 3
A fragment of another conversation
M = Militant
K = M.Kozitsyn
(M 17:32) On the aircraft shot down near Snizhne — Torez. That was a passenger [flight]. It fell near Hrabove, there are lots of corpses of women and children. Now Cossacks are looking into that. TV says that was a Ukrainian AN-26, freighter, but, they say, “Malaysia Airlines” is written on it. What was it doing in Ukraine?
(K 17:42) Well, they brought spies. No fucking flights, the war is going now.
(M 17:42) Copy that, understood.
UPDATE: the official translations from the SSU
Come on folks! We all know this is Bush’s fault!
What I find remarkable is that the flight occurred along an INTENSELY used major air corridor — as this is the European route to Kabul, and thereabouts.
You’ll find that every nation from India to Pakistan to Europe flies this great circle route.
There’s another one further south that is now deemed too close to Crimea, so everyone is dog-legging to get away from Sevastopol. Some take the northern leg. (Malaysian Airlines)
Others are taking the trans Black Sea route just north of Turkey (Iranian Airlines to Switzerland)
In sum, this was a jumbo jet on a MAJOR international transit route that has so much traffic that pilots would constantly see reverse traffic as they passed.
(Very much like the Detroit to Seattle track that runs like a conveyor belt of jumbo jets — even now.)
Which gets us back to the TIMING. The route attacked was, and is, the MAIN route for ISAF/ NATO forces leaving Afghanistan.
(I thought you’d want to know.)
Is this another of Putin’s deniable — in-your-face — murders?
Sort of Polonium on a massive scale?
Is Putin telling Barry that the honeymoon is over?
%%%
This lines up with SEVERE ‘separatist’ reverses of late.
What a coincidence!
And their technical mastery is quite shocking. This is a surface to air missile of sophistication. It’s FAR TOO EXPENSIVE to be authorized by anyone lower in rank than a Lt. Col. (Or its irregular equivalent)
No doubt the Pentagon is jumping all over this situation.
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What I find remarkable is that the flight occurred along an INTENSELY used major air corridor – as this is the European route to Kabul, and thereabouts.
ah… the point is that Russians do not care and so do not use IFF. they think that would be used to smuggle things rather than honestly, so IFF is ignored.
I should point out that its as George Harrison sang and said in 33 and 1/3
“Its all up to what you value”
and notice the progression of Yarmarskar comments
first. blame the US
then. cast doubt and aspersions towards enemy of russia
etc
What would a normal person think is a Russian agent? Someone that writes normal English or someone that refuses to capitalize their sentences?
The fact that you don’t realize your “English” actually sounds like what Russians write or say, Art, is…. well, it is what it is.
Ymarsakar, to quote the press
The press is not anti Russian, specifically.
As for where the missiles came from, I’m referring to who originally supplied the logistics. You seem to think English means whatever you think it means. But somebody has to actually move the equipment to where it is. Now was it the Russian logistics or the American logistics?
The idea that missiles only “come” from a place, and that’s where the supplies run is not a result of thinking of someone that comprehends Sun Tzu’s the Art of War, no matter how many times you read it.
This is the Ukraine territory, which isn’t Russian… yet.
What would a normal person think is a Russian agent? Someone that writes normal English or someone that refuses to capitalize their sentences?
arent you silly.. going for the surface to ignore the ocntent
The fact that you don’t realize your “English” actually sounds like what Russians write or say, Art, is…. well, it is what it is.
and so you have discovered the secret
that i am actually latvian by descent…
and lived in a russian refugee family
so, i know an aweful lot of the bs that others have no idea of, thank you very much…
but that is irrelevent, other than to show that cargo cultist thinking is about the surface.. not the substancve.. and all that glitters is not gold, is it tovarish?
though its hard to be a soviet historical expert without learing the idioms and other things… wouldnt you agree?
now, how about putting the surface crap aside, dig deeper, find the substance, as your purile refutation ignores all that..
as i said.. cue the egyptian river in “brooklynese” to be more accurate for our resident cargo cultist apologist…
(ie De Nile)
well… lets see..
the americans dont sell stuff to ukraine, a satellite country that is not exactly trusted not to show the stuff to russia.
they have not a shoulder system thast can reach that high, and the soviets have the Buk… the buk can shoot out the blackhawk (sr-71), which used to photograph russia at will from too high up for them to do much, so the buk now reaches 72,000 feet. (about 13 miles vertically)
the location of the incident is along the russian border (when comared to the rest of ukraine), in russian controlled area, with the people who are doing this reporting back to putin..
so yes.. its obama… (are you that much of a dumb ass?)
there are no american weapons in soviet soldiers hands ?(though i will admit that americans in the field DO pick up ak47 for back up weapons as there is lots of ammunition around for them to use if they run out)
now, if we were together in a room, i would sho youy a freaking map and you would see that this location is how many miles away fropm the russian border which is supplying the equipment and directing the separatists (or else why radio back whats going on and wait for comment from russia? even the americans dont do that)
The idea that missiles only “come” from a place, and that’s where the supplies run is not a result of thinking of someone that comprehends Sun Tzu’s the Art of War, no matter how many times you read it.
This is the Ukraine territory, which isn’t Russian… yet.
sorry… its russian territory..
its why russia is there, they are taking it
your so facile and silly…
ie. mother russia never does enything
i hear amreicans snhuck into russiua biilt camps and murdered millions…
and of course americans are known to murder americans for political gain… right? (not much)
hey.. they have VIDEO of the shoot down, want to see it?
and so you have discovered the secret
that i am actually latvian by descent…
and lived in a russian refugee family
It’s not a secret, I can analyze texts based on my experience and make correlations. It’s an analytical skill set.
I got that impression several years ago, of you. But your English never improved, and then you started talking about your “disabilities”.
sorry… its russian territory..
its why russia is there, they are taking it
Now who is the pro russian propagandist, cheering on Russia’s conquests now are we?