August 26th, 2014

I figure…

…why speculate on an audio that hasn’t even been confirmed yet as authentic?

Of course, that didn’t stop CNN from airing it. The cable news coverage of Michael Brown’s killing has exceeded in scale even the treatment of the Zimmerman case. It seems that with each such incident, there’s an escalation of news interest in it. One might have thought that, with the release of the convenience store robbery video, at least the characterization of Brown as an innocent overgrown child might have ceased. But no; any cracks in that narrative must be stomped out, and the offender made to apologize.

50 Responses to “I figure…”

  1. I Callahan Says:

    CNN’s ratings are hurting so bad that they’ll do anything to get people to watch them. I’m thinking that’s the reason more than anything else.

  2. Irene Says:

    What store robbery video? According to the latest meme out there, he was just shoplifting….

  3. Sam L. Says:

    It’s what they do. I heard Rush saying he wondered if by playing CNN sound bites he was helping them stay afloat.

  4. J.J. Says:

    Irebne: ‘According to the latest meme out there, he was just shoplifting….”

    Yes, I understand the are now calling him an “undocumented shopper.”

  5. Mike Says:

    If it is the shooting…

    It sounds bad for Wilson. 10 Shots. A pause after 6.

    My “I hope it’s not true” hunch: Wilson got emotional when the kid sassed him and tried to assert his authority by grabbing Brown. Brown fought back and started to run away after a struggle. Wilson got out and took out his gun and pointed it at Brown telling him to stop. He shot and Brown did not go down but was coming towards him.

    Wilson, in a split second, knew he had done wrong and knew the kid would say so…and so he finished the job and figured he’d come up with a story later.

    My contribution to the unwarranted speculation.

  6. Ray Says:

    Mike,
    You could have a great career as a CNN newsperson.

    About a year ago there was an undocumented customer who make a forced withdrawal from a local bank and the police shot him dead. Being an undocumented customer is high risk.

  7. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    I don’t see how your version fits, even if the audio is authenticated, which so far it hasn’t been.

    You fail to account for Wilson’s injuries (whether they be a broken eye socket or merely a battered face, which has been reported by most sources, including liberal ones), when they happened and why, and how they affected the outcome and Wilson’s sense of Brown’s intent and whether Wilson’s life was in danger. As far as I can see, Wilson “grabbing” Brown was attested to only by Brown’s fellow thief Dorian Johnson. It seems odd that the smaller Wilson would have physically attacked the enormous Brown right at the outset, with no history of this sort of behavior by Wilson in his 6 years of previous police work in black communities. What’s more, I have read no allegations that the autopsy showed any injuries or bruises on Brown that could have come from such alleged grabbing, whereas Wilson appears to have sustained evidence of Brown’s physical attack on him.

    Then there’s the scuffle in the car, where the gun apparently went off. Most witnesses attest to that. Then why does the recording not indicate a couple of shots in the car? Or were the first 6 shots in the car? Then why were there only four more on the audio?

    We do know that Brown was hit 6 times, all from the front. So if that is true, and the hits were by 6 separate bullets, then why are there 6 shots in the first burst, and 4 in the second? Is your scenario that Brown ran away (and that the scuffle in the car never happened, although most witnesses say it did?), Wilson then fired 6 shots in rapid succession and four didn’t hit Brown while he was running away, and then in the middle of the flurry of 6 rapid shots Brown decided to turn and come towards Wilson again, and that the next two shots hit him in the front and then Wilson paused for some unexplained reason, then decided to kill Brown and fired 4 more shots?

  8. Mike Says:

    neo – After I watched this, I changed my mind.

    http://therightscoop.com/here-are-four-eyewitness-accounts-of-the-ferguson-shooting-edited-together/

    I’m not saying there might not be an explanation that ultimately exonerates Wilson. I’m saying that Wilson losing it, shooting and finally killing “wrongfully” seems like the more likely thing to me at this point.

    End of the day – a Bully is dead. No one likes Bullies. But the kid is dead and almost everyone agrees he should not be.

  9. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    neo-neocon at 7:50 pm,

    A fine example of trying to confuse the issue with facts! How dare you! sarc off

    Manufactured evidence… I can almost guarantee it.

  10. Mike Says:

    Geoffrey – This is probably a good case to be more objective about. Take a look at the video; listen to the shots, the pause, etc. The shots are at least consistent with what the witnesses were saying. They all saw Michael Brown alive; and then shot dead.

  11. Mike Says:

    I think in the first burst Wilson hit brown in the arm. When Brown turned around and began to go down, he fired four more, two of them fatal shots.

    Wilson, I think, lost it. He was angry and embarrassed and was seeing red. He shot him down.

    I hope I am proven wrong…but even if the shooting ends up being “legally justified”, something is wrong with our police forces. 40 years ago the kid would have been smacked around and told to go home to his mother.

  12. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    It is a stretch to think any of the arm shots were from behind. Another stretch to imagine that sort of behavior from Wilson after 6 years of police work, much of it dealing with apprehending black people, and no incidents even remotely resembling the point of view, state of mind, or sort of behavior you’re imagining he exhibited here.

    And as I said, you’re ignoring the scuffle in the car, Brown’s inflicting injuries on Wilson rather than vice versa, the fact that most of the eyewitnesses agree there was a car scuffle, and the fact that it’s only the very last shot that could be interpreted as possibly happening when Brown “began to go down” (and that one could be interpreted as occurring while Brown was charghing), as well as your failure to explain why Wilson would have paused after shooting Brown the first two times.

    And that last statement of yours shows how off base you are on this. 40 years ago the kid would have been smacked around and told to go home to his mother? After assaulting an officer and injuring him, and robbing a convenience store and forcibly pushing the clerk in the process? You’ve got to be kidding me.

    Something tells me that perhaps you weren’t around 40 years ago, or at least weren’t an adult? I was.

    Oh, and by the way: an 18-year-old is not a “kid” under the law. And that was the case 40 years ago, too.

    It’s certainly possible that as the facts finally come out, it will turn out that Wilson was at fault. But so far there is little (except Johnson’s highly suspect story) to indicate it, including the audio, which is open to many different interpretations. Yours hardly seems the most likely one.

  13. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    “The shots are at least consistent with what the witnesses were saying.”

    So, if the shots heard on the audio “are at least consistent with what the witnesses were saying” and one of the witnesses is Johnson, who was just feet away but who has recanted his account… where does that leave the other witnesses? As liars, that’s where.

    What you ‘think’ is not consistent with the 12 witnesses who support Wilson’s account, including an eyewitness who is heard in the background of a video, just minutes after the shooting, stating that Brown started charging Wilson, before Wilson started shooting.

  14. kaba Says:

    I expect CNN to tie Officer Wilson to the missing Flight MH370 before it is all finished. And this is what we get from journalist now.

  15. parker Says:

    When/if the thugs come to Mike’s neighborhood and burn his house down and kill Mike and his family as they flee the flames, he might have a millisecond or 2 to realize he was nothing more than a running dog lackey. Personally, my give a damn is busted.

  16. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    My daughter and son in law graduated from college together in 2010. They’d bought into the HS counselor’s BS and both majored in psychology of all things. Needless to say, a psychology degree is fairly useless. It took 2+ years to get close to minimum wage jobs (despite having good prior work history) and moves to two different cities.

    They finally got lucky and both have good jobs now but neither one is using their psychology degree. And neither job required a college degree but together, they’re making just under a 100k a year. Saving every extra penny, its going to take them years to pay off their student loans and they took the minimum available.

  17. parker Says:

    Mike,

    Get back to us if an unarmed thug of any race, creed, or color attacks you and let us know if you had wished, if you survived, that you did not have a firearm to put down the rabid thug. Sheeeeesh! Get f÷#&€¥% real. Or cut to the chase and tattoo I am a willing victim on your forehead.

  18. DaveindeSwamp Says:

    One thing missing. Most pistols are NOT one shot stops, not even my beloved .45 . Add to this the size, the adrenaline and the shot placement . Six shots with a 9 mm against a large and determined target do not assure stopping the threat .

  19. parker Says:

    357magnum 125 grain jhp is, with a placement to the center of mass, a one shot stop. Far more proficient than 45 acp. Of course a 44 mag or the other, newer large calibers like the 500 s&w mag, are more powerful, but then you have to worry about pass through and hitting something/one behind your target. 357 mag 125 grain jhp does not exit the targeted aggressor. It does the job of imparting a lot of energy to the target and tearing up a lot of tissue due to a muzzle velocity of 1300+ fps with a proper charge.

    If you want a handgun buy a s&w 357 revolver, buy the equipment and supplies necessary, and learn to reload so you can practice, practice, practice.

  20. Beverly Says:

    Mike, is that all you’ve got. Ooookay. Here’s hoping you can duck jury duty, for life.

    Anyway, I have a theory too. It’s been remarked that the man on the tape, Mr. Smoothie, was amazingly unperturbed by the barrage of gunshots in the background. When does that happen?

    When the TV is on.

    Any questions? ;-)

  21. Beverly Says:

    In other News, the New Yorker weighed in with this week’s cover, a Chaim Soutine-like painting of faceless figures with their arms raised in surrender. How … chilling.

    The old Lefties are really honin’ to relive their “glory” days, aren’t they?

  22. parker Says:

    Beverly

    FTWARS. Translating wars – with a rusty shovel. They know not what will rain down upon them. No mercy, no quarter, burn it down and then salt the earth. It is merely a question of which side is mote ruthless and willing to wade through the blood and gore.

  23. Mike Says:

    Mike:My “I hope it’s not true” hunch:
    Blah, Blah, Blah- I don’t have time to read your other posts and have no interest in your speculation.
    Of course in your “hunch” you seem to have forgotten these published facts:
    There was a gunshot in the car. Guess the gun just went off by itself!
    The “Gentle Giant” was running back towards the cop. Yea, guess it was the cop’s fault he was fearful of a 300# thug who was running towards him.
    I wonder what your “hunch” is about the “non-white” cop (media’s description) that shot the unarmed white kid that had ear-buds in and was listening to music as he exited a store.
    I would suggest you remove your head from where the sun does not shine but I’m sure you like your “hunches” better than the facts.
    The Other Mike

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/08/nonwhite_cop_kills_unarmed_white_youth_national_media_ag_and_potus_ignore.html

  24. Artfldgr Says:

    I think in the first burst Wilson hit brown in the arm. When Brown turned around and began to go down, he fired four more, two of them fatal shots.

    nope…
    unlike the movies, gun wounds from a higher caliber than .22, have a defiite direction that is very easy to tell..

    all your doing is projecting your desire, and ignoring facts or knowlege that would swerve the wrong way.

    The entrance wound is normally smaller and quite symmetrical in comparison to the exit wound, which can sometimes be ragged with skin, tissue, and muscle and bone damage. Entrance wounds are often ringed with the residue of gunpowder and cordite – the two substances contained within a bullet.

    Exit wounds are usually larger than the entrance wound and this is because as the round moves through the body of the victim it slows down and explodes within the tissue and surrounding muscle. This slowing down of the projectile means that as it reaches the end of its trajectory it has to force harder to push through. This equates to the exit wound normally looking larger and considerably more destructive than its pre-cursor – the entrance wound.

    Exit wounds will often bleed profusely as they are larger but entrance wounds can sometimes look only like small holes

    if you so desire, you can see lots of examples.
    even without training you should have no problem telling them apart..

    here is an entry wound exit wound example (chest)
    http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/092/5/8/bullet_entry_and_exit_wounds___spfx_by_cozmiccreations-d7ctuht.jpg

    here are watercolor drawings for forensic classes that show entry and exit wound appearances and label them
    http://collections.countway.harvard.edu/onview/files/original/46e5e8fe5f97c26aa1ad2489a06d93cd.jpg

    you will find its easy to tell…

    you will also find that if he had his arms up, as they said, the wound would be in a different location and so will the exit

    arms down are rotated differently than arms up
    and their angle of passage are different.

    that is… the wounds get reversed but the traversal of the projectile changes from level or downward to upward… (in relation to the shooter)

    i got to see enough wounds when i voulunteered as a EMT in a rural area as a teen.. (not to mention picking up parts)..

    the public has no idea how disgusting and horrid death can be… movies make it look a hell of a lot neater and pretty.. even when they try to make it look bad

    they dont show the blood pool into a huge mark

    drowning victims look great on film, in real life they are bloated, their skin cracks, and often partially nibbled on by creatures..

    suicides tend not to be found right away, so they will have swollen toungues, cover themselves in feces and urine, and other things

    however, if interested you can find tons of forensic shots of almost anything you want to see.

    one of the more interesting photos i saw was what happens when a navy boy walked passed a 16 inch gun putting his head in the way… what resulted was much like a cartoon… the shell is so big and so fast that it just cut out a round piece matching the shape, and left the rest of the guys head and shoulders intact without a bruise…

    and you have to love how a sniper in the movies will use a large caliber gun (.50), and the guy gets hit and goes down… nope.. the speed is slow enough that it can transfer energy, and boy does it… hit in the body, the body explodes… hit in the arm, and the arm disentigrates and sometimes the shock wave will make the belly rupture… heads disappear i na puff of pink..

    nasty stuff
    cleaning up after is nasty too

  25. Artfldgr Says:

    40 years ago the kid would have been smacked around and told to go home to his mother.

    your funny..

    i am 6’3″ and 220… (i lost 5 lbs)

    the boy you would smack around is bigger than i am
    and i am larger than:

    Liston stood 6 ft 1 in (1.85 m) and weighed 212 lb (96.16 kg)

    i am larger than sonny liston
    the kid your talking about is larger than me

    mike tyson is 5 ft 10 in and weight 220

    i am larger than mike tyson (though you would look at me and say no way!)
    the kid your talking about is larger than me

    you still want to go up against someone my size with a friend against you alone?

    i wouldnt try to smack that kid around, and i am not small, nor am i inexperienced. (grew up in an inner city area where i got into lots of such fights)

    why dont you try it and see what happens.
    people try crap with me all the time, then they are lucky i am not a hot head and that most of the time, their hits and strikes are not much.

    like the guy that hit me in the head on the subway… drunk, irish, stupid… he takes a swing, and nothing happens. ie. i dont go back, i dont even move… i just take it and looked at him… then i pushed him with one hand and saw him fly… he got up and came at me again… but even drunk he then realized he was biting off more than he could chew.

    similar happend when the guy attacked my wife by trying to slam a door in her face. my hand came out, the door made a humongous bang… then my wife and i got out and i said you have a problem? he turned and started at us… while he was yelling i put my wife behind me… then started taking off my coat and stuff, very calmly… his friend realized this wasnt going to end well if they kept on and left… the guy had no recourse but to make a lot of noise.

    at 50 i am more than a match for most people.
    lean, 220, over 6 feet.. experienced in slum fighting and street fights…

    you want to try?

  26. Artfldgr Says:

    parker, you want stopping power? the smith and wesson model 500… its not that wessonality… :)

    its a 50 caliber handgun..
    puts the 357 top shame

    The Smith & Wesson Model 500 is a five-shot, single action/double-action large caliber revolver produced by Smith & Wesson, firing the .500 S&W Magnum cartridge, a .50 caliber bullet.

    It is built on S&W’s largest frame, the X-Frame, which was developed because none of S&W’s existing double-action frame designs could handle the muzzle energy and pressures generated by the .500 S&W cartridge.[2] It is the most powerful production revolver in the world today, and it is being marketed as being “the world’s most powerful handgun” by the manufacturer.[3] There are a few larger revolvers, like the Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver, however none of them are a “production” revolver. The Model 500 can fire a bullet weighing 350 gr ( 22.7 g; 0.8 oz) at 1975 feet per second (602 m/s) generating a muzzle energy of over 3,030 foot-pounds force (4.1 kJ).

  27. Artfldgr Says:

    mike…
    read this how to fight a bigger guy
    http://www.wikihow.com/Beat-a-Taller-and-Bigger-Opponent–in-a-Street-Fight

    the above is pretty good..
    this one is ridiculous…
    http://www.wikihow.com/Fight-Someone-Taller-Than-You

    example from the ridiculous
    1. If you are a lot smaller, realize that they have to reach downwards. This will affect their balance because they will have to lower themselves to the same height or close to it which takes away the height advantage. Also they will have an inclination to lean forward. This will leave them open to uppercuts and affect their overall balance.

    funny… i dont crouch down.. i just do an over my head nail driver into the top of their head. this can cause compression fractures of their vertibre..

    also. the taller person has an advantage as they are striking down, and so have gravity and their body weight behind it. while the person hitting up has only their arm strength.

    now number 1 from the more reasonable (but still silly) other post.

    1 Size up your chances honestly. Only engage in fighting bigger people if you have no options left. Avoid a confrontation if possible. Because of his size, you’re at a disadvantage.

    the good post is masculine, the bad one is feminist.
    it has a woman in it, and its telling her she has all these advantages being small.

    want to know the truth? i can sit on most women and they will just give up for want of breathing… just fall on them… at 220 she cant do a damn thing

    more from the good post..
    2 Choose the wisest option. There are two choices when faced with a larger, potentially stronger opponent: either face your adversary and fight or run. Choosing to retreat is not a sign of cowardice, but a decision to survive and spare yourself. It is foolish to fight while lacking confidence, or when you know you cannot win.

    the bad one says similar, but says, both of you will get hurt.. not likely..
    there is a reason why boxing weights in different categories are so near each other and yet apart.

    well.. i am in the category that they dont divide up the boxers. the heavyweight to super heavy weight.

    In amateur boxing, the super heavyweight division is a weight class division for fighters weighing in excess of 91 kilograms (200 pounds). Introduced for the 1984 Summer Olympics, the division, despite its grandiose name, is merely the amateur equivalent of the professional heavyweight division

    that is.. from 200lbs and higher.. they dont divide us.. and i will tell you… going up against a 200lb man who is fit and fast and can run the hell over you if your only 10lbs lighter… is not a good thing.

    but back to silly
    3 If this is not an option and you are forced to protect yourself, use self defense or martial arts. You will need to have learned this in a class and have spent a lot of time doing it till you feel and understand that fighting someone bigger, smaller or taller doesn’t matter; it is all just fear of being hurt or killed and this is normal.

    yeah… use martial arts… thats funny… in real life, not so good… a real instructor i knew used to lose female class members because he would tell them that no matter how much they learned they would not be able to beat most men… most men are faster, stronger, have more air capacity, bigger bones and contrary to feminism, can tolerate a lot more pain and damage than women.

    here is more of the silly feminist fighting thing (you probably learned from)

    4 First you must “size-up” your opponent. Most taller fighters are unable to really “fight tall”, or truly take advantage of their height. Scan your opponent’s face and eyes. Look at their stance (foot position), body language and distance away from you. Is your opponent nervous? Angry? If you move in aggressively does the opponent instinctively shift or move back and keep distance? If not they are probably unaware of how to use their height. You can use this to give yourself a chance to take them by surprise.

    yeah… take me by surprise in a fight.
    this person giving the advice knows nothing.
    i have a granite jaw (not good)…
    this means you can punch me in the face and i wont get stunned or get knocked out… so i generally let them have the first shot… and god help the after that.

    dad used to do the game where guys would trade head shots one punch at a time till one gave up… but dad was also 6’6″ and 280 lbs… i am the small viking of the family..

    you need a lesson in reality
    i just pray its not going to be a hard one

  28. Artfldgr Says:

    Was CNN pranked yet again by that infamous Howard Stern show fan, Captain Janks aka Tom Cipriano, when they played an audio of a sexy online chat with ten shots going off in the background supposedly in Ferguson, MO at the same time as the Michael Brown shooting? If so, it would be far from the first time that Captain Janks easily pranked CNN which is so desperate for ratings that vetting their sources is low/no priority. As reported by Eric Wemple at the Washington Post,, experts appearing on CNN are now casting aspersions as to the authenticity of that audio and suspect it could be the result of a Howard Stern fan prank

  29. Mike Says:

    I am slightly amused by all the posters responding to me as if I am some sort of liberal.

    That’s borderline hilarious.

    I am only giving my honest opinion about what happened. I can read people fairly well. The four people on the video are not lying, with the exception of the sidekick who may be stretching a few things, or not telling a few things…but he looks real on the basic story. He “recounted” something? Devil in the details on that one. What exactly did he recount?

    Let’s get real.

    The other three are either telling the truth as they saw it (and they are relatively non-committal on whose fault anything was), or they are great actors and the Left is so deep on this one that they plant believable actors to give different interviews to different people in a most expertly deceiving way imaginable.

    If that is what is going on, then the next step really and actually will be civil war or brutal oppression in this country.

    I don’t think we are quite there yet.

  30. Ymarsakar Says:

    Most people are going to get it wrong. They did when Zimmer walked the police through the shooting and it was video taped. And they will still get it wrong if there was a video tape for this, which there wasn’t.

    So without vids, people are even more wrong.

    This chaotic setting is perfect for the rabblerousers and mob maniacs making money off this, though.

  31. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    I never came to any conclusions about whether you were on left or right.

    But I do think you’re not thinking straight here.

    For example, you haven’t a clue whether they are telling the truth, except you think their demeanor indicates it. And perhaps they are. But as I wrote in an earlier post, eyewitness testimony is notoriously bad.

    Plus, the audio that CNN aired is not only completely unauthenticated, but even if authentic it doesn’t really support your theory, as I wrote previously.

  32. Ymarsakar Says:

    I can read people fairly well. The four people on the video are not lying

    Reading people in person and reading videos aren’t the same thing.

    And not lying just means they are mistaken or manipulated by some other method. Hypnosis would cause a person to tell the truth as they see it, but it would still be pap.

    The other three are either telling the truth as they saw it

    Witnesses are about 10% more accurate than the youtube commenters talking about why Zimmerman shot Martin in FLorida.

  33. SteveS Says:

    Given the availability of inexpensive audio/video editing software, sound effects libraries and the sudden appearance of this ‘evidence’ after the event has been international news for days, my B.S. detector is reading off-scale high. That CNN made no attempt to authenticate the recording is unsurprising.

    As for My contribution to the unwarranted speculation., let’s just call it a fascinating study in confirmation bias and leave it at that. It would be bad manners to use one of the other guests as a chew toy.

  34. Mike Says:

    Steve – You sound ridiculous.

    My “bias” insofar as I have any, would go 180-degrees he other way. In point of fact, I changed my mind on this one from thinking the officer was probably justified, to now thinking he was probably not.

    Learn how to think for yourself. A “chew toy”? Really!!! That’s one for the books Fido.

  35. Mike Says:

    Ym,

    Duh.

    SO let me get this straight. You are telling me that there is a difference from seeing people on a video and seeing them in person? That’s freaking amazing! I NEVER would have thought of that!

    Thanks.

  36. SteveS Says:

    CNN starts the walk-back:
    cnn-now-worried-ferguson-shooting-audio-is-hoax

  37. Beverly Says:

    This video is something people should watch: a great big, UNARMED black man beats a police officer senseless.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojvHyQCHhVc

    This “unarmed” business is highly overrated as a Harmlessness Indicator.

  38. Mike Says:

    Beverly – Wilson got a punch in the face. The kid got a bullet in the head. There’s harm, and then there’s harm.

    Anyway, everything will come out at the trial and we will all know who did what at that point.

  39. Mike Says:

    Mike: “Anyway, everything will come out at the trial and we will all know who did what at that point.”

    Sort of like the trial proved OJ was innocent?

    Ignorance is Bliss.

    I’m sure you believe these “truisms too”

    There is not one bit of corruption at the IRS.

    You can keep your Doctor and your health plan will be cheaper

    While I attended Rev. Wright church for 20 yrs, and he officiated at my wedding and baptized my kids, I don’t agree with his thoughts.

    Bill Ayers and I were neighbors but I didn’t really know him.

    Tony Ressco was just a business associate.

    The only problem is this Troll is drawing all the comments to him and away from the actual article itself.

    I’m calling a moratorium on responding to you/ or reading your posts. There are too many other posters that have interesting comments to waste time with yours.
    You just don’t post anything intelligent or thoughtful in your posts.
    The Other Mike.

  40. Mike Says:

    @The Other Mike – You’ve got a theory (abouit me and what I am saying) and all I can tell you is your wrong. You’ve got blinkers on. You’ve come to a decision and you have no idea it’s right. You are jus saying it is.

    In point of fact the trial really did show us all about O.J. Everyone knows he did it; why he did it; how he did it. For all practically purposes, yes, Everyone. A jury let him off. Therefore we didn’t find out what happened?

    The same will happen here I suspect. He will go to trial. The facts will come out, cross-examinations and evidence the whole nine yards. These witnesses surely will be called or deposed. It will be on TV. Bank on it.

    All I am saying is what I said already 5 times above. Until shown otherwise that’s my theory about what went down.

    Another matter altogether is “what the blank is this cop or any other gunning down an unarmed 18 year-old in broad daylight on a residential street surrounded by freaking residences” for? How did we get there? I’m off of colors and behaviors and cultures at this point. THAT is not supposed to happen. Not in America. NOT…SUPPOSED…TO…HAPPEN.

    Hello? Is this mic on? Beuller? Anyone?

    How we got here is one thing. But it’s a fact. We’re here. We have the “get the f*&^ out of here pronto” or we are more screwed than screwed – which I suspect we already are.

  41. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    Of course it happens; what are you talking about? Not supposed to happen? What is a cop supposed to do if that “unarmed” person is twice his size, has just damaged him in the face, tried to (and come close to succeeding in) getting his gun from him, and is charging at him from a fairly close distance to do it again?

    Is the cop, realizing that there are people who live in the neighborhood (although I haven’t seen allegations that people were standing right there, except perhaps for Dorian Johnson, who was completely uninjured), supposed to just let the guy kill him and get his gun? And how safe would the neighborhood be then?

    I have no idea why you have developed this idée fixe of yours, in the face of both evidence and reason, but you are not making sense.

  42. Mike Says:

    @neo – “Is the cop…supposed to just let the guy kill him and get his gun?”

    But we have no idea that that is what was happening? My posts are peppered with “ifs”. Obviously, if someone is trying to kill anyone the other person has a right to resort to lethal force. You don’t have to be a cop.

    But isn’t that the only reason the cop would have been justified in killing him? If he was also trying to kill the cop? No one can say as of now that was happening. I think you might be projecting on the idee fixe.

    “I have no idea why you have developed this idée fixe of yours, in the face of both evidence and reason, but you are not making sense.”

    What evidence? There is no solid evidence. There are at best conflicting stories. We haven’t even seen a police report. One bit of evidence is those four people in the video. I have said all along that is why I changed my mind on this one – and I have changed my mind on it. I must have five posts on this blog where I was going the other way, in the beginning.

    But not now. And I could be wrong. I’ve said all that. But mu hunch is I’m not.

    What is everyone going to say if it ends up the cop really did lose it and start firing away when he shouldn’t have? How do you know he didn’t. You seem very sure of yourself.

  43. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    You wrote [emphasis in bold mine; all other emphasis yours]:

    Another matter altogether is “what the blank is this cop or any other gunning down an unarmed 18 year-old in broad daylight on a residential street surrounded by freaking residences” for? How did we get there? I’m off of colors and behaviors and cultures at this point. THAT is not supposed to happen. Not in America. NOT…SUPPOSED…TO…HAPPEN.

    I was giving you a hypothetical—based on the allegations in the Brown case, but as a hypothetical—that tells you EXACTLY what business this cop or any other cop might have to do what you say is “NOT…SUPPOSED…TO…HAPPEN.”

    My point is that there are many circumstances where it is fully justified and is supposed to happen, unless you want the cop to martyr himself and allow the criminal to get the gun and kill more innocent people.

  44. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    The evidence:

    –Brown’s behavior in the video
    –the autopsy reports
    –many eyewitnesses defend Wilson, some do not, but the main one who does not is Dorian Wilson, who is unreliable
    –Wilson’s previous record
    –multiple reports (including in such left-leaning papers as the Times, not inclined to favor Wilson) of Wilson’s facial injuries, which either included an eye socket break or were limited to facial swelling

    Nothing I have said indicates I am certain of what happened, nor is this true of most of the commenters here. Everyone knows that future facts/evidence could prove Wilson guilty. But the preponderance of evidence, plus logic, leans on the side of his innocence.

    There is a bee in your bonnet about this. I don’t know why. You are straining to find the worst possible interpretation of the facts for Wilson. You seem to begin with a presumption of guilt and work backwards.

  45. Mike Says:

    I began with a presumption of innocence for the cop. I no longer think that. All of the so-called evidence is hearsay at this point.

    What is not hearsay is simply what those people described that they saw. They saw the struggle. They saw Brown. The saw Wilson, the gun, everything.

    I wonder if you could watch that video and tell me whether you think those people are lying or something. I’d be interested to hear.

  46. neo-neocon Says:

    Mike:

    People (such as you, or anyone) tend to think they can tell who’s lying and who’s not, but they can’t (there is a great deal of research to that effect). I know absolutely nothing about those four people in the video you describe, or about the other witnesses who have a very different story from them. Why would I believe one over the other at this point?

    I certainly don’t believe Dorian Johnson, however. We know enough about him to know he has a strong motive to lie in Brown’s favor.

    I am using logic to try to fit the evidence we do have so far (such as the things I listed in my comment above, like the autopsy report) with what then makes sense to me as the best possible explanation.

    Your explanation is one of the worst I’ve seen. Of course, it could end up being true. But I think it highly unlikely to be true, based on what we know.

    And for the umpteenth time, those four people don’t have to be lying to be wrong. Simply put, eyewitness testimony for a sequence of events that happen in a short time, with a lot of distracting complicated movement and several actors, and that involve weapons, is VERY often very poor in quality. They could simply be mistaken.

    I have previously explained about the unreliability of even sincere eyewitness testimony under conditions such as this, as well as providing links, and you have ignored it as far as I can tell. It’s gotten very tiresome.

    Also, you don’t understand the meaning of the word “hearsay.” It’s a term of art that only applies to a trial—to reports of out-of-court statements by a witness who for any number of reasons cannot be cross-examined at the trial. It does not mean “rumor” or “report in a newspaper from an unnamed source,” although people have come to use that term loosely to mean that.

  47. GA Says:

    One of the oddest bits of reporting is that the cop reached out of his vehicle–an SUV, iirc–and grabbed Brown by the neck. There are about thirty-’leven ways that’s a terrible idea and would not occur to anybody who’s ever spent as much as two seconds thinking about physical confrontations. I mean, whatever brain cells are in your shoulder would revolt if you even thought about that. “Are you kidding? He’d have the leverage. He could pull backwards. Down. Grab one of your arms with both of his hands and twist the arm off and then where would I be?”
    The only thing to be said for this is that, sitting in an SUV, Wilson could probably see Brown’s neck without leaning out of his window as he would have to in a sedan.
    Very strange.

  48. Ymarsakar Says:

    Incompetence on both sides would explain things here. The Left, of course, would come in afterwards to set up the triumphs and fasces.

  49. Ymarsakar Says:

    You are telling me that there is a difference from seeing people on a video and seeing them in person? That’s freaking amazing! I NEVER would have thought of that!

    Yea, there is.

    And you not thinking of that is why people miss the real tells. Because the real tells aren’t normalized for every person, it needs to be Stuck In as in Wet work stuck in. Interactive interrogation, it is like.

  50. Ymarsakar Says:

    It’s also why lawyers don’t have a case if they aren’t allowed to cross examine witnesses.

    Because.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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