Home » Maybe we should follow Nigeria’s lead with Ebola

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Maybe we should follow Nigeria’s lead with Ebola — 55 Comments

  1. In Africa, they are far more serious about their borders than the USA. I sent my son to visit my sister in Mozambique and I had to sign notarized papers provided to their embassy that he would be fully funded by us, here in the states. He was allowed to stay for 3 months and then OUT! My sister has been there for 4 years. 2 years ago a discrepancy was discovered with their paperwork. They were given 2 weeks to leave the country (at their own expense), get it right and then return. It took 7 months working from here to take care of it. Missionaries are no longer welcome there, so they were among the last.

  2. Check this out if you want to know how tough it is to quarantine — in the National Institutes of Health — an unkillable infection: PBS Frontline’s special, “Hunting the Nightmare Bacteria”:

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/mdxr6go

    Ebola, being a virus, is already antibiotic-proof, so the problems are … similar. The Frontline report is about Gram-negative, multi-drug-resistant bacteria, and what a nightmare they are to treat.

    There’s also a segment on a KPC outbreak at the National Institutes of Health; they couldn’t figure out how it was being transmitted, and it got out of the ICU even with ultra-stringent precautions.

  3. I’ve edited books on epidemiology. The key, as in the Nigerian efforts, is to be very aggressive and very fast to isolate the outbreak. You just have to use quarantine and border closings and whatever else you’ve got, when it’s either a fatal virus or a multi-drug-resistant bacterium.

    Progression is geometric.

  4. Over at Richard Fernandez’s excellent Belmont Club, his post today is Ebola in America

    “Nobody beats arithmetic. Not even “they” can. By opening the borders, or a avoiding the trouble of preparedness in the belief that “it won’t happen to me” they’ve changed the physical odds in favor of the virus. And the physical odds are what count. It’s witch doctor thinking to rely on “assurances” from political shamans for protection. Assurances are nothing but amulets from public policy voodoo doctors to make you think “they” can alter reality.”

    Commenter “Subotai Bahadur” makes an excellently reasoned argument;

    “1) Responding to epidemics/pandemics is NOT something that has never come up before. The very fact that we are here, with our pre-Ebola life expectancies, is based on the ability of medical science to respond to disease outbreaks.

    2) The standard first response, backed by millennia of successful experience, is isolation of the infected community/individuals with quarantine for those who are suspected and at risk.

    3) The deliberate, considered, and premeditated response of Federal agencies across the board has been to bring as many disease vectors into this country as they possibly can, to forcibly prevent them from being medically screened, to scatter them throughout the country, and to actively impede state and local health authorities from responding to any disease outbreaks triggered.

    We now have Ebola being spread by government actions within our borders. We now have previously eradicated TB being spread by government action within our borders, except now drug resistant. We now have an epidemic enterovirus all over the country attacking children, now killing them, and mutating into a form of polio which we had eradicated within our borders. We now have Dengue Fever spreading within this country, which has not been here in any volume for a century.

    And all of it spread in the last couple of years with the help of all agencies of the Federal government.

    This is a level of “incompetence” that cannot be blamed on one or two individuals. It crosses several Cabinet level departments with them working together for a common result. Which we are seeing now. That level of “incompetence” is in fact planning and premeditation. The odds of multiple departments committing reinforcing acts to bring this result by pure chance are beyond credibility. Especially, since not one of them are responding to the breaking reality with changed behavior.

    The proper domestic response to the initial outbreak would have been stopping all direct flights between the US and the affected countries, blocking entry of anyone who has been in those countries until they can prove that they have been outside those countries for 30 days, the cancellation of student and tourist visas for people from those countries, and [oh, yes] securing our borders so that anyone who comes in is screened for health and legal status. Noting that 15% of the illegal invaders who cross our deliberately-erased-by-the-Federal-government are NOT from Mexico, Central, or South America. And that from January-August this year 71 nationals from the Ebola infected countries were caught at the former border. And that we only catch a small percentage of those crossing.

    I would also note that we have done the travel restrictions relatively recently for H1N1 flu. This is not breaking new ground. It is deliberate avoidance of proper epidemiological procedure.

    Prediction: sometime soon, the Federal government will institute movement and quarantine controls inside the country for US citizens only. The national borders will remain wide open. Foreigners, legal or invaders, will be allowed to move as they please. And all anti-discrimination laws will be firmly enforced.

    I have expressed doubts about a real election in November. This reinforces those doubts.

    And it would not be a bad thing for those that can to prepare for a period of self-imposed isolation, and self-defense, during it.”

    Subotai Bahadur

    For Bahadur’s prediction to come true, a large enough pandemic or crisis is needed, otherwise neither the public nor the military will support Obama canceling any election.

  5. neo…

    Wretchard covered the American who flew to Nigeria.

    He absolutely KNEW he had ebola. He’d just buried his sister — also afflicted.

    He had serious political connections and used them to even get on the flight!

    Yet he was falling down by the time he got to Nigeria.

    And the trip was an ‘elevator flight.’ (Take off and land almost immediately. The flight attendants don’t even have time to hand out nuts.)

    I’m with S.B. This cascade is bio-engineered.

    I suspect, though, that it’s too late for November.

    It’ll really pick up a head of steam immediately after the election, though.

    I recommend grabbing absentee ballots. You may not be alive for the vote. Yes, it can get out of hand just that fast.

  6. When the head of the NIH was asked by Chris Matthews (!!) if we should stop air flights from West Africa, the answer was no.

    Why?

    Because that’s what Obama wants! He said, “I agree with the President.” Those were his marching orders.

    I kid you not.

    Big surprise that Barack also earned an MD at Harvard.
    This whole thing is political. It is politics 24/7 for these people.

  7. It’s certainly time to halt all flights coming directly from west Africa, as well as halting anyone from coming to the US whose itinerary included west Africa. It’s simple common sense. It wouldn’t have to be forever either.

    And I’d add halting Muslim immigration as well, another virulent virus.

  8. Suppose the government is successful in controlling this outbreak of Ebla and only 5 or 6 people including 3-4 children die because of the disease. For the left that’s O.K. because they managed to prevent the death of thousands. The little people who actually become ill and die because of the open borders of the left would certainly not consider their deaths a sign of success, but what do they have to say about it? They are just the little people, the cyphers in the lefts political calculus.

  9. Never thought I’d ever say this, but let’s hear it for the lefty nutcase Rep. Alan Grayson, Democrat-Florida, who this past July (after a Liberian died from ebola in Nigeria on the first leg of a trip to Minneapolis) did this:

    One member of Congress wants to restrict travel from affected West African nations. Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla, wrote a letter to Secretary of State John Kerry and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson on Tuesday requesting a travel ban on the citizens of Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone, “and any foreign person who has visited one of these nations 90 days prior to arriving in the United States.” The congressman said Murtala Muhammed International Airport in Lagos, where Patrick Sawyer collapsed from his symptoms, in particular poses a danger because it offers direct flights to the U.S.

    “I urge you to consider the enhanced danger Ebola now presents to the American public,” Grayson wrote. A spokeswoman for Grayson said Wednesday that his office has not yet received a response.

    From the same article, the CDC’s response:

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says there is little risk that the virus could reach the U.S. by air travel. The agency has advised stateside health care providers to watch patients who have traveled to West Africa recently for symptoms of the virus.

    I guess the Dallas hospital didn’t get the memo.

  10. Maybe now that we’ve imported Ebola to the USA and are duly citizens off the world, we will not be preceived as privileged, spoiled, people that Obama has to apologize for.
    No? Ok maybe the missionaries can stay here and prevent spreading the disease further?
    Didn’t think so.

  11. Illuminati Says:
    October 1st, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    That’s it in a nutshell.

    The proles outside of the Beltway are just statistics… fools and tools.

    That MDs are kissing Barry’s kiester… astounding.

  12. The power of the Left is something else, isn’t it. Not the same as your regular normal political party.

  13. This whole thing is my worst nightmare come true. If I were in America now, I would already by taking precautions, and indeed I emailed my brother in Florida to tell him to take this very seriously.

    For as I said in a previous comment on this subject: we do not know what we are dealing with here. That doctor who survived, Kent Brantly, recently said ebola is a “fire from the pit of hell,” which is better than any other description I’ve heard. The authorities may understand probability and the science of risk-assessment, they may even understand the “known unknowns” about Mr. Ebola. But their thinking is muddled by extraneous concerns, turning their minds into a mushy equivalent of what ebola does to the body. Only a great wit could note every irony in this pathetic story.

    To my knowledge, there haven’t been any cases in China (my current place of residence) as of yet, but I have had no success in trying to find out what the dictatorship’s policy is on incoming flights. My guess is they’re not doing much, though I hope I’m wrong. If ever they were going to do something to make Thomas Friedman proud, a diktat about West African flights would be it. There are a lot of Africans in China, particularly in the universities where I work (not sure from where in Africa they tend to hail, however).

    I’ve been in Chinese hospitals, and I doubt they have the infrastructure to handle an outbreak of ebola. If it got loose here, the catastrophe would be epic. Again – I really hope the Party is aware of this, and not trusting in their “competence” and “power” to manage the situation once it becomes, well, a situation.

    Anyway, this ebola thing is primal fear for me. Ever since being scared out of my socks by The Hot Zone at age 13 I have had this irrational feeling that ebola was going to get me, like the boogey man. Though I must say, being “got” by the boogey man is probably a lot more pleasant than being got by the monstrous king of the filoviruses.

    Not that that is relevant to anything, but if anyone here has ever had the feeling of their worst nightmare starting to come true – well, it’s not something I would include in my bucket list.

    Apart from my psychodrama, what is happening is so perverse is so many ways. Most of them have been more than adequately noted by the commenters here and elsewhere on conservative blogs. The right always says – rightly – that if you want to know what the left really believes, look to what they curse. Projection is their M.O. In a similar way, if you want to know what will bring disaster for their ramshackle little world, look to what they claim will bring it to the world they claim to want to save.

    In this case, you have a web of delusions – PC, bureaucratic rule and the insouciance that it entails, and a whole lot of hubris – positively inviting a rebuke not from the people or from an election, but from nature herself – nature red in tooth and claw, which could not care less about our pieties. But isn’t this what the left is always claiming is going to happen to the rest of us, in our hubris and delusion, with respect to global warming (and a zillion other eco-dooms)?

    The left thinks that nature can be propagandized to act in accord with their ideology, just like one of the plebs. It is magical thinking run riot. It is also, as another commenter said, criminal negligence.

    So here we are, on the brink of paying the devastating price for such hubris. I hope the ChiComs are more realistic.

    Stay safe everyone.

  14. Nature got tired of humans paying attention to global warming. So she created a real species killer. How’s that for natural advantage and adaptation.

  15. It’s because we didn’t sacrifice enough Al Gores to the volcano, that nature gets like this from time to time.

  16. You all should chill out. There is absolutely no way the American CDC cant contain this. Halting flights from west African countries is only going to make it look like you can prevent it from getting to America but in reality it wont. Look at it this way, it takes 21 days for a person to get sick. He wasn’t sick when he traveled but when he got to Texas be fell ill.

    What if he had travel to another country like say Kenya or South Africa. Then traveled to America? Globalization has its blessing but also has its curse as we can see now. With this kind of problem we should know that one countries/ regions problem is the whole worlds problem, we need to fight it together but like this it will definitely spread.

    What is even scary is that when people who get sick and refuse to tell the truth. like the case in Nigeria. The man arrived and collapsed at the airport (a few days after i arrived Lagos too/ thank you Jesus/ If i saw the guy collapsed i would have probably tried to help/ thank you Jesus!) …

    Well he got to the hospital and didn’t tell he had contact with an ebola victim who just died of the disease, instead he suggested he might have Malaria. They kept treating him for malaria but he wasn’t getting better and then they took his blood and tested for ebola, already to late he was bleeding and all the people who tried to treat him had direct contact with him and are dead now.

    That’s how it got to Nigeria and thank God the Nigerian govt was serious for once and they stepped up with the HELP OF THE AMERICAN CDC. So people please chill out, you have the best medical team to handle this situation.

    Besides who protects you is God, you might avoid the boogie man/ebola @ kolnai 😛 but get hit by a tricycle and ….. Always thank God for your safety.

    God Bless you all.

  17. Ann Says:
    October 1st, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    Never thought I’d ever say this, but let’s hear it for the lefty nutcase Rep. Alan Grayson

    He’s a classic case of a broken clock being right twice a day. I don’t remember the details, but he has had sporadic outbursts of rational thinking and common sense before.

  18. There is a big problem coming soon — the flu season. The early symptoms of ebola manifest much like influenza. So when millions of people come down with the flu, do we quarantine them all?

  19. There should be an ecosystem of energetic executives freeing up resources and prioritizing so that the money to quarantine and do the public health measures to contain ebola get done. Could government resources in the US get repurposed like that without consequences?

    I bet you Rick Perry still has to spend time out of each day on his court case.

  20. All people traveling to the United States from countries with Ebola are being warned as of Wednesday about the potentially deadly virus’ symptoms, and how it is spread.

    The U.S. Customs and Border Patrol will hand out a flyer with information from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to all U.S.-bound travelers from those countries.

    That flyer also contains a card that any passenger who starts showing symptoms in the following days can hand their doctors, to alert them of the risk.

  21. Subotai Bahadur = artfldgr?

    Not a dig at either. Despite his frustration that he isn’t igniting more discussion, I view artfldgr’s content as a resource.

  22. On September 16 I sent the Pastor of our church (Catholic) this, regarding ebola in Nigeria:

    “The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Lagos Adewale Martins also released a statement on Sunday suspending the exchange of peace and ordered that Holy Water vessels placed at the entrance of churches be removed to prevent. Catholic priests are to distribute the host after it has been intincted in the chalice, but are to refrain from touching the tongues of communicants, Archbishop Martins said.”

    I suggested that it was possible that this traveler, who was heading to America, could have ended up celebrating Mass with us in Chatsworth, CA, and then what, since we haven’t incorporated the above protocol? Catholics should consider the above, since Nigeria has been successful in ways other African countries haven’t been.

  23. Thanks eric!!!
    but i am not Subotai… LOast i ever heard the name was in reference to a mongolian general… the strategist for Ghengis khan. 🙂 though i did just miss talking to the Dalai Lama once… my fault. i wanted a picture more than i wanted to talk to him, so i got neither. 🙂

  24. There are three parallel things that can lock us down, and one or two externals…

    1) pandemics (Ebola, Enterovirus D68, Dengue, Typhoid, Chikungunya are the major ones – there are others now)

    2) financial collapse

    3) racial insurrection

    Any one will beget the other two as bonus prizes
    externals can be marburg virus, anthrax, ebolapox, and others… then small nuclear event way out at sea. and tons of other things that would destabilize and brig about number two… more group attacks can bring nymber three… especially if something like the zebra murders repeat…

    The “Zebra” murders were a string of racially motivated murders, committed by four African-American men who were later convicted, that took place in San Francisco, California, from October 1973 to April 1974.

    During 1973 and 1974, fourteen execution style murders and eight assaults occurred in San Francisco, whose police named the case “Zebra” after the special police radio band they assigned for the investigation. Twenty-two crimes in a six-month spree involved mostly white victims of the three black suspects.

    right now farrakhan is claiming ebola was invented by US bio centers to exterminate blacks… (same as the aids active measure that gorbachev apologized for). not exactly the best way to do this, after all, 50% of abortions are black babies, and abortion centers are in their neighborhoods, which is why despite welfare and lots of children, theirpopulation has been stagnant for ages.

    good thing those executive orders are in place waiting
    and the camps dont exist, so dont worry there is no infrastructure to do a thing about this, despite Rex84.

  25. In my comments here I’ve already expressed my reservations about the supposedly rock solid “not to worry” assurances by various U.S. officials and doctors that Ebola is hard to catch, and can only be caught by “close contact” with bodily fluids from someone who has active symptoms.

    Now, comes a statement today from the UN official charged with trying to stop the Ebola epidemic, who is worried that, as the number of those infected grows, so does the chance for a mutation to occur that could change Ebola’s mode of transmission to include airborne transmission (see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2778022/UN-Ebola-chief-raises-nightmare-prospect-virus-mutate-airborne.html) .

  26. In other news, the count of those potentially exposed to Ebola has climbed to an estimated 100, and we learn that Dallas authorities have warned those potentially exposed “to stay home,” telling them that they can be prosecuted if they violate this order!

    I don’t know about you, but my faith in the general intelligence level of the average citizen is not very high but, on the other hand, my faith in their orneriness, general cluelessness, and inability to focus on the long as opposed to short term and on potential consequences, is much higher.

    So, just to be sure, I would have put all of those potentially exposed in strict quarantine, just to make it much harder for some ornery, clueless, selfish-idiot to violate the voluntary stay at home order and go out to the store, to visit a friend, or even to go to the mall.

  27. Artfldgr-I read that Farrakhan diatribe and was amazed at the number of outright errors (attribution of the Executive Orders) among the incendiary lies. A black “Muslim” leader and a black “Christian” leader (Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton et al) seem to gather their following using easy to prove otherwise, lies in their arsenal. What a pathetic joke our media is, to have never exposed this and allow it to stand.

  28. As I think I have written here before, the idea, the “meme,” that the U.S./CIA created AIDs to attack the Black community, created by the KGB’s propaganda department during the Cold War, has been an extraordinarily successful and long-lived disinformation meme that has entered the global consciousness and remains lodged there, and is the template upon which today’s claims about Ebola were formed (see http://www.faqs.org/espionage/De-Eb/Disinformation.html) .

  29. Approximately 420 immigrants arrived during the first two weeks of July. Nearly a third were diagnosed with scabies, many more were carrying infectious diseases, others had unknown illnesses, and at least one child – who was observed coughing up blood – was diagnosed with tuberculosis, Zermeno writes. Approximately five Border Patrol agents contracted scabies from illegal immigrants who were later released to the public. Zermeno found vomit and soiled sheets strewn on the floor of a holding area and mothers reusing dirty baby bottles.

    “All this could have been avoided with proper planning and protocols established,” Zermeno writes. “When I exposed these incompetent managers to government officials and the public, they proposed discipline on me, in retaliation.”
    http://www.nationalreview.com/node/389232/print

  30. Wolla Dalbo: … arned those potentially exposed “to stay home,” telling them that they can be prosecuted if they violate this order!

    this is GREAT… (that was sarcasm)
    as you can be sure that there is a group of them who do not have full refrigerators, and who will order pizza, and other foodstuffs to be delievered, the man who delivers will enter the apartment, and then take money, hand to hand.

    the pizza connection…
    we deliver Vectors..

    then that delivery person will leave, they will go to the restaurant, and they will then put their money in the register, converting the small bills to large bills, or visa versa depending on need, and go out..

    note that the camps that FDR used were created not by congress, but by an executive order..

  31. What a pathetic joke our media is, to have never exposed this and allow it to stand.

    They’re probably getting a cut of the profits. That’s how the mafia avoids crushing competitors. Give em the cut and they’ll leave you alone, maybe.

  32. Sharon W
    Your being racist in your comments as your not supposed to be saying that black people are dumber than a light post when it comes to whom they follow… and very very ignorant too.. having no idea what happend in the south, as most believe theya re relate to slaves, when most came WAY after that, and have nothing to do with slavery… you know, like obama being concieved in selma…

    bottom line: of those who are of the group i am referring to (not the others that i have met that have no truck with that bs), they basically want validation of their racism, and absolution that it isnt racism – and that they are geniuses, not idjits.

    sadly, this gives a bad reputation to the other blacks who are wonderful people who have no truck with anyt of this… how many of them lose opportunities to jobs cause of morons who cant wear pants correctly and choose their clothing to foul up police descriptions.. ie, hoodie, pants worn funky, out sized pants, reversable jackets, jackets with built in masks, and on and on…

  33. Subotai Bahadur = artfldgr?

    Sentences are capitalized.

    And I doubt Bahadur would take the risk of doing what he does, while being under the Left’s pension system. An additional shackle that is getting riskier.

    Art believes the FEMA camps are out to get us. And thinks his family has the genes to survive. Based on what, the Left’s pension that they promised to pay Art? An interesting case of not looking at the tree in front of you while lambasting people to look at the forest. We see the forest all right, but some people don’t realize that the the forest also includes the tree in front of them. They ignore what’s going on in their immediate surroundings in order to prioritize external issues that are far far away.

  34. Ymarsakar
    their fantasy seems to be that they will have job security in the future on a socialiust paper, and wont have to change jobs, and wont even have to think much to write their articles. kind of a day club where lunches are paid for, and they can socialize and then go home, all worry free…

    I know this to be true in so far as they have no idea what it was like to be writing in german papers in the 30s or russian papers, or chinese papers, or even kim jong papers, or castro, etc.

    they think that whatever the US will do will not be like those other places, while at the same time believing that there is no exceptionalism.

    “I’m just one hundred and one, five months and a day.”
    “I can’t believe that!” said Alice.
    “Can’t you?” the Queen said in a pitying tone. “Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.”
    Alice laughed. “There’s no use trying,” she said: “one can’t believe impossible things.”
    “I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    the beauty of feminism was that it could be relied on to figure out who is willing to lie, or too stupid to know the truth!!!!

  35. The King:

    A couple of things–

    The incubation time is not 21 days, it’s 2 to 21 days. Duncan (the Dallas patient zero) had contact with the dying woman in Liberia just a couple of days before getting on the flight, and got sick just a couple of days later. The exposure I’m most concerned about is not the exposure to the people on the plane, who probably were around him when he was not contagious (although if I’d been on that plane, that fact would fail to assure me, and I wouldn’t rest easy until 21 days plus had passed). The very worrisome and dangerous exposure was in this country, after he exhibited symptoms, and especially the fact that the hospital did not admit him.

    In addition, I’m not at all sure that Duncan fully disclosed his exposure. He told hospital staff he had come from Liberia (and they should have smacked him into quarantine at that point, and were negligent to have not done so). But I don’t think he said he’d had close contact with a dying woman. That information sure would have helped to have known.

    Lastly, it doesn’t matter that his flight was not directly to this country from Liberia. As a non-citizen Liberian national, he should not have been let in (I believe he even had to have a visa to get in). Until the epidemic in those West African countries die down, no non-citizen from those countries should be allowed in, except under extraordinary circumstances and after being thoroughly checked and questioned about his/her movements and exposure during the last 21 days.

  36. In 2009, Democrats would come around and say “Give Hussein more time, he needs to fix all the Republican problems that were created in 20-50-100 years”.

    Except they were more stupid and mindless in the phrasing.

    But now we have people stating that the gov is doing a false flag operation on American civilians and people aren’t even surprised. They can’t even deny it. They can’t even call it crazy. What progress and change since those times, yes?

    Isn’t this what some of us said at F and F, Benghazi, and ObamaCare ACA, that “you ain’t seen nothing yet”? Isn’t it due to the fact that some of us saw beyond the beyond in terms of the political calculation and stupidity, incompetence, and/or villainy of the Regime?

  37. kolnai:

    If it’s any consolation (and it probably is not), I think most people are frightened by this, and are at least somewhat familiar with books (and movies?) like The Hot Zone, whether or not those scenarios are their personal Room 101 (“You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world”).

    I am hardly any sort of expert on the ChiComs, but my guess is that they are a lot more realistic and completely uninterested in PC considerations compared to our own so-called leaders. That may be scant comfort, too, but there it is.

    There other thing is that, despite all this negligence that’s been displayed in dealing with these patient zeros, the Nigerian experience is a bit comforting. If they can contain it, there’s a good chance we can, despite our incredible bumbling.

  38. Art believes the FEMA camps are out to get us. And thinks his family has the genes to survive. Based on what, the Left’s pension that they promised to pay Art? An interesting case of not looking at the tree in front of you while lambasting people to look at the forest. We see the forest all right, but some people don’t realize that the the forest also includes the tree in front of them. They ignore what’s going on in their immediate surroundings in order to prioritize external issues that are far far away.

    oh. do i get to talk for you now? yarmarskar thinks that shoving things up his arse makes for a sunny day. especially when he gets to lick the spoon!!! sometimes he goes out and rapes children, and all that kind of thing..

    is that how its done?

    point 1)
    Art believes the FEMA camps are out to get us.

    no… i dont believe inanimate objects are out to get us. but i DO think that leaders of a communist state prepare places to put people they dont like… and are not so stupid as to put them out in the open, and place a sign on them in such a way that someone with the very very low iq of yarmarskar could realize whats going on.

    in effect, yarmarskar is taking the position of some jews early on in hitlers rule, where they believed that the thing would blow over, and that nothing like what came is even possible.

    however, can you name one socialist/communist state that does not have such camps? cmon… did germany have them? yes. did russia have and has them? yes. did castro have them? yes… did mao have them? yes. did trhe united states have them in the past? yes

    so why do you think that its impossible? because the mind smaller than a gnats cant conceive of a reality beyond their own ken?

    Point 2)
    And thinks his family has the genes to survive. Based on what, the Left’s pension that they promised to pay Art

    other than my family surviving such camps already… no, i dont believe that, and the left does not give pensions.. ie. do you think you get a pension in a soviet state when your not a member of that political system and just a prol?

    and here we get to the gist of it
    They ignore what’s going on in their immediate surroundings in order to prioritize external issues that are far far away.

    you contradicted yourself… the leavesa re close up, a tree is not a forest, and the forest takes standing back.

    if the knave in office and others ARE planning something, do you think that they would let things happen without planning? remember, this incompetent group managed to not only grab the presidency, and major offices of the state, but have also changed law, constitutional representation, border entry, and a huge list… including weaponizing the IRS against enemies, gettig the press to serve them, even in this ebola thing, and a whole lot more…

    YArmarskar, you remind me of huxley… are you huxley?
    he had to leave once his reasonable position was so screwed he couldnt talk any more…your taking the same position and trying to convince me by talking for me to other people and maligning me…

    WHY?

    because i point out legal things?

  39. Rex 84? why does it exist? when was it turned off?

    Readiness Exercise 1984, was a classified “scenario and drill” developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be “national security threats”, in the event that the President declares a “State of National Emergency”.

    thats not a fantasy… what replaced it?

    Rex 84 was written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who was both National Security Council White House Aide, and NSC liaison to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and John Brinkerhoff, the deputy director of “national preparedness” programs for the FEMA. They patterned the plan on a 1970 report written by FEMA chief Louis Giuffrida, at the Army War College, which proposed the detention of up to 21 million “American Negroes”, if there were a black militant uprising in the United States

    you realize that all those people actually exist? North got in trouble moving weapons to south america…

    the national security council is real too
    The White House National Security Council (NSC) is the principal forum used by the President of the United States for considering national security and foreign policy matters with his senior national security advisors and Cabinet officials and is part of the Executive Office of the President of the United States.

    FEMA is real, and i remember how they handled things like Katrina.

    John Brinkerhoff was the associate director for national preparedness of the United States Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) from 1981 to 1983

    he is mostly remembered for his role in creating rex84

    rex 84 was a kind of response to the events created by the people who are in the whithouse now!!!

    Brink’s robbery (1981)
    The Brink’s robbery of 1981 was an armed robbery committed on October 20, 1981, which was carried out by Black Liberation Army members Jeral Wayne Williams (aka Mutulu Shakur), Donald Weems (aka Kuwasi Balagoon), Samuel Brown (aka Solomon Bouines), Samuel Smith, Nathaniel Burns (aka Sekou Odinga), and Cecilio “Chui” Ferguson; several former members of the Weather Underground, now belonging to the May 19th Communist Organization, including David Gilbert, Judith Alice Clark, Kathy Boudin, and Marilyn Buck; and an unknown number of accomplices

    notice that the shakurs are there… you know, the people who brought the poetry of h Rap brown to the black community and created the gansta rap culture..

    you see… like charles manson, they wanted to start a race war.
    David Gilbert, Judith Alice Clark, Kathy Boudin, and Marilyn Buck are names you should know..

    David Gilbert was a founding member of Columbia University Students for a Democratic Society and member of the Weather Underground Organization

    Judith Alice “Judy” Clark became a prominent member of the Weather Underground Organization and participated in much of its political agitation and criminal activities

    Kathy Boudin was a far left radical who was convicted in 1984 of felony murder for her participation in the Brink’s robbery of 1981 which resulted in the killing of two police officers and a security guard Boudin became heavily involved with the Weather Underground. The Weathermen (members of Weather Underground) bombed the Pentagon, the United States Capitol, the New York Police Benevolent Association, the New York Board of Corrections, as well as the offices of multinational companies. Boudin, along with Cathy Wilkerson, was a survivor of the 1970 Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, the premature detonation of a nail bomb that had been intended for a soldiers’ dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey

    Marilyn Jean Buck was an American Marxist revolutionary, and feminist poet, who was imprisoned for her participation in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur, the 1981 Brink’s robbery[1] and the 1983 U.S. Senate bombing

    and there is a hell of a lot more your tiny brain cant comprehend..
    you have no idea of the history.

    Chesa Boudin was the child of Kathy.. when Kathy was arrested and convicted, who raised the baby? After his parents were incarcerated, Boudin was raised by “adoptive parents” Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who, like his parents, were one-time members of the Weather Underground.

    now… who is this Bill Ayers guy, and what is his relation to Obama?

    William Charles “Bill” Ayers was a founding member of the Weather underground… which was a part of the SDS, which was created from the LID..

    do you know any of this yarmarskar?

    i bet you cant ahve a rational debate, so what you do is talk for me, and spand your time smearing me thinking that makes you look smart.

    it doesnt

    why not discuss the facts? that in 1981, the people who are now in the white house, planned to have a race war. and in response to this, the government at the time, created laws which created camps for 21 million americans.

    by the way… 21 million is about the same amount that FBI agent larry grathwol said that the Weathermen said would have to be put in camps. what camps? the ones that exist already, or the ones that they would make once they took over?

    Larry Grathwohl, an undercover FBI agent who infiltrated The Weather Underground, claims Ayers told him where to plant bombs. He says Ayers was bent on overthrowing the government. In response to Grathwohl’s claims, Ayers stated, “Now that’s being blown into dishonest narratives about hurting people, killing people, planning to kill people. That’s just not true. We destroyed government property,”

    really? then why pack you bombs with nails and plant them at a debutant ball? cause nails dont kill people?

    yamarskar, you need a big time history lesson

    there was no law that came after in which the camps created for rex84 were dismantled. in fact, the law was superceded by other laws and executive orders

    specifically Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot

    Operation Garden Plot, also known as The Department of Defense Civil Disturbance Plan (18 USC 1385 Posse Comitatus Act)

    note that i include the law reference… ie. its LAW dummy… you can read it in the law books

    a general US Army and National Guard plan to respond to major domestic civil disturbances within the United States The plan was developed in response to the civil disorders of the 1960s and is now under the control of the U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM). It provides Federal military and law enforcement assistance to local governments during times of major civil disturbances.

    it still is in effect…

  40. i hope neo dont cut that down

    Garden Plot was last activated (as Noble Eagle)

    Operation Noble Eagle
    is the name given to the United States and Canadian military operations related to homeland security and support to federal, state, and local agencies. The operation began 14 September 2001, in response to the September 11 attacks

    yeah… 9/11 never happened.. and it wasnt on the same date of the incidents at the gates of vienna either?

    are you keeping up with me yarmarskar?

    we are still under Noble Eagle…

    Operation Cable Splicer gives us Field Manual 3-19.40

    ever read Field Manual 3-19.40?

    LOOK AT THE URL YARMARSKAR

    MILITARY POLICE INTERNMENT RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS
    http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/mil_pol_operations.pdf

    LOC IS LIBRARY OF CONGRESS…

    The “Internment/Resettlement Operations” field manual title page is dated February 2010
    [the link i gave you has the 2001 manual]

    go here (notice army.mil)
    http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm3_19x4.pdf

    specifically read section 7, internment and resettlement

    now here is the BIG QUESTION yarmarskar

    if they ahve had these manuals and updates going on since the 1980s… and they talk about internment camps… do you think they would START building them AFTER a crisis starts, or do you think that since they are part of the READINESS stuff, they have already built them?

    think hard.. dont pop a blood vessel

  41. The King –

    Point taken, although I wasn’t stating my fear in order to justify it as rational (hence the word “psychodrama”). I’m well aware of the odds. The “point” of my fear is not fear of dying anyway. It’s fear of dying – to appropriate neo’s reference – in “the worst way in the world.” That’s a primal fear.

    Regardless, I can’t imagine my issues are that interesting to anyone, and I regret bringing it up and clouding the discussion. My excuse is that neo and her commenters are my extended non-blood family, and often enough talking out your fears and getting them in front of you in words helps you get a handle on them. If I’m going to do it, for better or worse, this is where I’ll do it.

    That said, I think maybe your faith in the CDC is too close to your faith in God (“There is absolutely no way…”). You speak of steps we can take to lower the chance of a global outbreak – such as restricting flights (and of course visas) – as though because they are not perfect, they should not be taken. But that is just the attitude that has me and others worried – making the perfect the enemy of the good, and furthermore (in the case of our Betters) failing to identify the good because of ideological shibboleths standing in the way.

    It does not “take 21 days to get sick” (as neo rightly noted); the incubation period CAN be up to 21 days, but rarely is. Three weeks is not the norm. And if the CDC is taking that stance – “Well, the incubation period can be be so long that prudent steps will make no dent on transmission potential, therefore let’s do as little as possible about preventing contagion, and as much as possible about keeping the plebs calm” – then I view that in rather the opposite way that you do. Not a reason for a whole lot of trust.

    I hope that is not the CDC’s attitude. Unfortunately, I think it approximates it. Hence my refusal to put faith in them, much less absolute faith.

    As for God – I will pray to him that our president and his bureaucrats do not take wishful thinking and ideology as their lodestars. I will pray that they do not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. I will, most definitely, give thanks for every human being who is spared contact with this grotesque natural evil.

    But I will not chill out until this storm has passed. As counterproductive as panic can be, there are times when complacency is worse. Ideally we’d strike a golden mean, but in this case a little panicky preparation for the worst is, in my opinion, anything but a bad idea.

  42. Ymarsakar:

    Sentences are capitalized.

    And I doubt Bahadur would take the risk of doing what he does, while being under the Left’s pension system. An additional shackle that is getting riskier.

    Coordinating conjunctions are used to join words, phrases, and clauses that are balanced as logical equals:
    Mary AND I went to the meeting. [joins two subjects]

    We were tired YET exhilarated by the end of our first day hiking up Mt. Everest. [joins two adjectives]

    We swam all morning BUT fished in the afternoon. [joins two verbs]

    While its no longer bad form to start a sentence with a conjunction, the requirement that it joins things still applies. ie. that the prior sentence has something to do with the one your using and with, rather than just use and as a counter to tick off the next sentence.

    yarnarskar your in danger of having people review all your writing for perfection as your doing the liberal leftist socialist bs thing of invalidating the content in favor of proper writing style. ie, sentences start with capitals

    in essence, sentences did not always start with that, in that capitals did not always exist, and that periods, commas, and so on, are actually recent inventions in dialogue

    English is technically a Bicameral script, but there is no actual requirement to use capitals as its ancestors often didnt. ever try to read original greek or roman latin text? not only did they not have cases, but they didnt have spaces in between words, and commas and such would not be available for a few hundred years!

    c’mon yarmarskar, use your real brain to work the content, not the form… your the kind of asshole that when presented with a time machine complains there is a chip in the paint cause you cant concieve of a time machine and the only negative you have brains for is to critizise the paint job. ie, capitals, spaces, spelling etc.

    the point of writing is communicating, and no one cares about punctuation being correct or infinitives being split if they like the content.

    however, i have aspergers, and i write mostly at work, so i dont have time to go over my writing. ESPECIALLY when the person requiring it is being a complete arse hole and a pud head.

    are you familiar with Muphry’s law?
    Muphry’s law is an adage that states: “If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written.” The name is a deliberate misspelling of Murphy’s law.

    Skitt’s Law
    Hartman’s Law of Prescriptivist Retaliation
    The Iron Law of Nitpicking
    and
    McKean’s Law

    In neither taste nor precision is any man’s practice a court of last appeal, for writers all, both great and small, are habitual sinners against the light; and their accuser is cheerfully aware that his own work will supply (as in making this book it has supplied) many “awful examples”. (“Write it Right: A Little Blacklist of Literary Faults” 1909 Ambrose Pierce

    basically… you have nothing to say so you pick at the form of the content rather than the content. it makes you a very small person when one considers that we are not professional writers and this is not a writing class where your the professor.

    The Iron Law of Nitpicking
    You are never more likely to make a grammatical error than when correcting someone else’s grammar.

    and
    Skitt’s Law is an Internet axiom which states that people who correct other’s spelling or grammar are likely to commit errors themselves. It is often used as a humorous critique of the pedantic Internet users known as Grammar Nazis.

    given you made an error right after correcting the grammar, you fall under the auspices of being a grammar nazi…

  43. The problem is not so much that our federal government has all sorts of contingency plans, many of which, if they were widely known, would not be approved of by, or even horrify citizens.

    The problem is, just how trustworthy are the government leaders that would decide which plans to implement, and whether to implement them, how strong are our checks and balances, the institutions, the key individuals in positions of power who have the duty to uphold and defend our freedom and our liberties; that is the real question.

    What kind of leader is our President, what kind of principles does he have, how dedicated is he to our country’s founding principles, to our hard-won freedoms, and how courageous is he?

    How principled and courageous is our Attorney General, are our legislators, how about the members of our Supreme Court, and our military leaders?

    How diligent, brave, and persistent is our press in protecting our liberty and our freedoms, in ferreting out things that might endanger them?

    It is the answers to those questions that make whatever government contingency plans might be out there so dangerous.

  44. Wolla Dalbo

    thank you for the most rational comment on these things i could find!!!!!!!!!! and thats my point… if i go to tin hatter areas, there is no rational argument, they haev decided already… and if i go to leftist land, yarmarskars take the other position, and have also already decided. funny, but if the state could be trusted, we would not be discussing most of this at all, eh?

    the point is that there is no place for a rational discussion of THESE facts. think of it? the laws and such that create such things, and rather than discuss it, we create three camps. the decided negatives, the decided positives, and the head up the arse ignoring people.

    that dont leave much for real discussion…
    even worse, a rational discussion will find all kinds of connections that may or may not have bearing. like the lid, to sds, to weathermen, to white house to the law that created the camps and things in response to the lid, sds, and weatherman actions.

    thanks Wolla Dalbo for “gettting” my point of bringing it up… these things become even more critidcal when we can wake up tomorrow, and fiund that over the evening the leader has decided to implement them and thats that. this is made more scary by obamas prior conversations as to lincolns suspension of things temporarily…

    sigh

  45. Coordinating conjunctions are used to join words, phrases, and clauses that are balanced as logical equals:
    Mary AND I went to the meeting.

    Did you write that, Art? Or are you copying and pasting somebody else’s work here.

    Either way, it doesn’t matter to me. Shrugs is what you get. Do you understand what that body language signifies? If you don’t, it means I already know what you know, and it doesn’t matter whether you want to externalize your fears and doubts on other people.

  46. You are never more likely to make a grammatical error than when correcting someone else’s grammar.

    You misunderstand, as usual. That’s not me picking on your grammar, as I noted before, that’s me calling out your L. A. Z. Y. + ness on the subject. You spent most of your energies ignoring your own personal Tree stomping on your life, and instead spend it on the internet talking to strangers about stuff you think we don’t know.

    Okay, whatever, do what you want, but the idea that everybody other than you, has their priorities wrong is… strange. On FEMA. On “important concentration camps”. Pension is the Left’s version of a concentration camp for their livestock, btw.

  47. Btw, my comment for Eric was meant to target his cognitive abilities, so I assumed he could read between the lines without me spelling it out, as I would have for you Art, that Sub does not equal Art because Sub’s sentences are capitalized, thus Art couldn’t mimick that without copying and pasting every sentence and paragraph.

    Even in the instance that you tried to capitalize a sentence, Art, your lazyness made you belittle the work of others to change things, even though changing a letter from a lower case to an upper case is so hard for you. That you either don’t do it, lazyness, or you try to do it and give up to attack Neo (vice + lazyness). So it’s a virtue and character deficiency, not a grammar deficiency.

    Eric can get my point, probably, without me spelling it out. But if I was writing for you Art, I would be more explicit, so don’t misunderstand me here.

  48. no, i dont believe that, and the left does not give pensions..

    *grins* Is that what the Left told your boss and your co workers to tell you… and you believed them? You believed them, didn’t you.

  49. kolnai Says:

    “Point taken, although I wasn’t stating my fear in order to justify it as rational (hence the word “psychodrama”). I’m well aware of the odds. ”

    So it appears that someone else is carrying around a little psychological gift from Africa. When I was growing up in Rwanda we had a severe rabies epidemic. I have had to deal with hydrophobia-phobia ever since. Africa has a way of doing that to one.

  50. ymarskar is a troll…got it…making problems and arguments to exacerbate things… getting me to feed the troll… now we know, as your point ex post facto was you didnt care and were trollong.. got it..thanks

  51. Art, you were the one that told us all that you believed your boss would pay your pension and that’s why you obey them. Then you yourself talked about FEMA camps and how you.

    I gave you the advice you wished, via a locked blog post. Whether you read that or not, I have no idea, because you ignored that topic afterwards and pretended it didn’t exist. Whether you did that intentionally or not, or just because you got tired and wanted to ignore it like a child does, that tends to piss people off for one reason or another. Just so you know.

    But some of us are paying attention to the Real Problems, including yours. While you aren’t paying attention to anybody’s problems. You only think about internet stuff because it is far away and abstract, while you ignore the problems you can actually fix. That’s a character deficiency. That’s Weakness. Has nothing to do with your intellect or lack of it, or Neo’s attention span or jello posts.

  52. Pingback:made my day

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