School shooting in Marysville, Washington
This is terrible:
What he saw was freshman Jaylen Fryberg go up to a table with students, “came up from behind … and fired about six bullets into the backs of them,” Luton told CNN. “They were his friends, so it wasn’t just random.”…
The shooter died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, Marysville police spokesman Robb Lamoureux told reporters.
Two girls are in the intensive care unit at Providence Regional Medical Center in Everett, and two boys are in ICU at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, Providence spokeswoman Erin Al-Wazan said.
Three are “very critically ill” with “very serious” injuries, she said. One is in serious condition. One of the boys, age 14, suffered a jaw injury. The other, age 15, was critically injured in the head.
The shooter and his victims are members of the Tulalip tribe, and the two boys mentioned in the above quote are relatives of his:
My grandson and the shooter were best friends,” said the boy’s grandfather, Donald Hatch. “They grew up together and did everything together.”
The girls are not identified, but they were shot in the head and are in critical condition (another girl has died).
This is very different from the typical school shooting. Ordinarily the shooter is some sort of misfit—not always a bullying victim as sometimes thought, but often at least somewhat troubled in a way that was noticeable even prior to the shooting. Fryberg was apparently the opposite—a very popular and seemingly happy young man. He was also quite different in that he targeted a group of friends. I’m not sure, since I haven’t done an exhaustive study of the victims of school shootings, but I believe this is highly irregular and perhaps even singular.
My guess is that he was a sociopath. They often seem likeable, hide their antisocial nature quite well, and would have so little conscience that blowing away a bunch of friends might seem a good idea to them. They also are very difficult to spot, and if that’s the situation here the mental health field would have been of very little use.
[NOTE: By the way However, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the perpetrators in the Columbine massacre, were initially thought to be of the bullied misfit type. However, later research has indicated this was an error or at least an exaggeration, and that they were relatively well-liked. However, they had gotten into trouble with the law, although they fooled even the legal system into thinking they’d learned their lesson and were pretty good kids. Who were their targets? Actually, everyone at the school, and their intent didn’t stop there. They were extraordinarily antisocial, nihilistic, and grandiose in their plans, most of which they had kept completely hidden. It was only their journals, read posthumously, that revealed the extent of their pathology and/or evil.]
[ADDENDUM: It’s no longer certain that the shooter committed suicide. He may have shot himself accidentally while a teacher was grappling with him—that is, if this report is true. It’s very unclear what the situation was.]
I’ve never watched Oprah, so I don’t know what, exactly, “the Oprahfication of America” means, but from context it seems as if the emotional is to be raised over the rational, feelings are all that count and facts are to be disregarded. Whether I’ve got that right, it’s clear from pop culture and any number of columns, tv pieces, and, from what I can tell from the outside, education, that the idea of “suck it up” is losing popularity. If we are hurting, for whatever reason, that’s the Biggest Deal in The World. Something, no matter what, Must Be Done.
I’m not sure my view here extends to shooting people who made us sad–the guy may indeed have had his wires crossed–but, otoh, it may have contributed.
Richard Aubrey
I pray that the injured victims survive and they, and the family and friends of the victim and perpetrator, find peace.
RA:
I think that’s too big a leap.
I think sociopathy, which is my best guess for what was going on here, is probably innate.
What is the link between sociopaths and suicide? Are sociopaths prone to suicide or murder-suicide?
From the little background I’ve read, especially his twitter account, he was upset about a break-up with a ‘1st love’ girlfriend which apparently involved blame for a boy close enough to him that he called him a ‘brother’.
I’m surprised because individually he was so young and seemed popular and well-adjusted. But socially, his profile seems to contradict how we picture school shooters. He was a football player, which is one kind of tribe. But he was also part of a tight-knit, traditional community practicing traditional values. ‘Loner’ implies alienation within the modern breakdown of family, community, and cohesive, trust-based, stable social-cultural environment. From outside, his upbringing looks to have been making a healthy teenage boy in a healthy social environment.
Except it appears his ‘1st love’ girlfriend and perhaps a boy who was close to him betrayed him with perhaps the complicity of other friends. And the betrayal turned him into an executioner.
What is the difference, if any, between school shooters who are sociopaths and those who appear to be pushed along by profound mental illness? The difference, say, between the Columbine killers and the Virginia Tech and the Isla Vista killers.
How does (developmental) age factor? There are differences between preteens, young teens, and older teens, let alone post-teens, yet school shooter ages have ranged from middle school to college and older.
Eric:
Lots of people get betrayed. Some additional (unknown) factor made him a killer.
Sadly, I’m don’t see an “answer” to this type of mass killings.
One reason is that there isn’t ONE reason for mass killers.
Yea, in some cases it kind of makes sense if they were an outcast, bullied, etc.
But, making sense of the killer being a well-liked guy is very hard to understand. What made him “go off” is something that we might never know.
When I was on high school, a very popular, very talented, very gossiping boy killed himself after his girlfriend dumped him. He was prom king, sports star, girls had crushed on him. And he was a nice guy, too. This story reminded me of that. I wonder if one of the things that have changed over the forty years since that suicide and today is the “Oprahfication” of our society. If John (the guy I knew in high school) had happened today, would he have just killed himself or would he vase tried to take the people he felt betrayed him along? I think TV in general and touch feely TV in particular, have screwed up the screwed up even further. Not like we haven’t always had screed people out for revenge–the worst school massacre to date happened in the 1920’s or 30’s.
Neo,
That kind of betrayal has led to murders, suicides, and murder-suicides in many cases.
…it appears his ‘1st love’ girlfriend and perhaps a boy who was close to him betrayed him with perhaps the complicity of other friends.
And being in love can make you crazy:
Ann, Eric, etc.:
I repeat: lots of people get betrayed, sometimes very badly. But some unknown other factor made him a killer.
And it wasn’t just the madness of being in love. Fortunately, the great majority of people (even teenagers) manage not to kill people after they’ve been betrayed in love.
In the rare instances where someone is killed as a result, it is usually a suicide rather than a murder. In the rarer instances of murder or suicide-murder, it is sometimes when a spouse is caught in the act. That was not the case here, either.
But there is an unknown extra factor that makes a person turns to suicide or murder in any of these cases. No matter how bad the betrayal, most people weather it. The betrayal does not cause the murder, it is a spark that sets off a combustible person.
What’s more—and this is the part most relevant to this case—I have never before heard of a case where a person is upset over a breakup and then tries to kill five people who are their friends, sitting in a school cafeteria. One of the people may have been the ex-girlfriend, and one the male friend who supposedly had something to do with it, but the entire group? Of course, we may discover that, as far as he was concerned, they all betrayed him and deserved to die. But that is a very large number of people to kill, even for a murderer in a love triangle.
Sometimes a person who feels betrayed by a spouse or lover kills that person and the person’s family with whom they are living temporarily. That’s the only even remotely comparable situation, and it’s still not so very similar.
What’s more, even if she had broken up with him and he felt betrayed by her and someone else, does that mean he actually was betrayed? We don’t even know that, although it’s certainly possible. But even if true, it explains nothing except the precipitating event.
Certainly seems a tragic, horrid conflux of several things.
He had a nice smile in one pic. I wouldn’t have pegged him for a sociopath. I wonder if he felt betrayed by close friends and went into a psychopathic rage. Teenagers are often the most cruel.
The names of the injured girls have been released. Yesterday the news said the injuries to their faces were so severe that they could not be identified.
“Two 14-year-old girls were at Providence Everett Medical Center, and were identified by the facility as Shaylee Chucklenaskit and Gia Soriano”
One student yesterday said that a lunch lady was grappling with the shooter when he shot himself.
I think they’re now saying it was young social studies teacher named Megan Silberberger who tried to stop him.
This seems apropos considering the somber mood:
“For those going to the UW-Arizona State game at 7:45 p.m., you should plan on drenching rains and strong winds as the game will begin during the initial stages of the heart of the storm, and conditions will only deteriorate from there. And use extra caution on the drive home as you could be driving amid very strong winds and bursts of heavy rain.”
Astounding bravery for someone to try to stop him, without a gun.
Steve:
Non-psychopaths don’t go into psychopathic rages. People who are doing pretty well don’t try to kill 5 others in a school lunchroom no matter what the provocation.
I found my way to the shooter’s Facebook page, which was still there last night but may not be anymore by now. It was so normal. He was a sweet-faced kid with a joyful smile. Many of the photos showed him with family, looking happy, and many of the comments were from what sounded like older relatives who loved him. He was a hunter, but not — at least as portrayed there — out of any blood lust but instead in the traditional rural family-oriented way that, as I have come to know it in the rural place where I live, has more to do with celebrating life than loving death. He wrote at one point that what he liked about hunting was being in the woods, more than shooting things. He did not seem at all like a psychopath, but like a normal, very young boy. Maybe there are no answers to anything.
Mrs Whatsit:
But psychopaths often seem very normal (even hyper-normal), until they don’t. They are excellent at mimicking normalcy. That’s why the best book about psychopaths is called The Mask of Sanity. Do a search on this blog for “psychopath” and you’ll see previous things I’ve written on the subject.
He flat-out snapped.
All of the first-person-shooter games are everywhere in modern male teen culture.
A similar ‘snap’ occurred inside the ‘Joker’ in Colorado.
(James Holmes) In his case, the branch of sanity was bending low before it went all together.
&&&
As for the torqued mentality of the Marysville shooter: in a very tight social group, being ‘out-grouped’ may be so humiliating, shaming that the perp flips nihilistic.
When stacked on top of way too much first-person-shooter time — this atrocity erupts.
&&&
Totally immersive digital videos are reaching the Brave New World/ Aldus Huxley “Feelies” threshold.
They are having an impact — and this is an instance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
&&&
Is anyone surprised that the dominant focus of the video medium is:
Complete mayhem :: establishing a lek; (human, solo)
Total lust :: consummating a fresh DNA project launch.
I know, Neo. But this was a child. It seems that something would show in the face of such a young boy, other than uncomplicated sunshine. You’d think there would be some crack, some hint. This was a boy who liked to post pictures of his much-younger relations, apparently because he liked them and thought they were cute — but then shot two of his cousins, along with his friends. Of course we’re looking from the outside and can’t know what we’re seeing, but I can’t help wondering if the mask was so complete that he did not know himself what he was.
neo-neocon Says:
October 25th, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Mrs Whatsit:
But psychopaths often seem very normal (even hyper-normal), until they don’t. They are excellent at mimicking normalcy. That’s why the best book about psychopaths is called The Mask of Sanity.”
What us distant observers have to acknowledge is the cognitive dissonance — even co-participation — of a deviant’s in-group.
Just how many times have we heard a mother claim that her murderous son is: “A good boy, he is.” After which we discover that his rap sheet is spectacular — and yet still understates his pathology.
The squib histories we’re being fed are quite likely to be highly skewed. The whole “Who-could-have-knowed” bit is at least one way to deflect social blame.
With repetition, the tribe will find itself no longer ‘main-streamed.’
I for one hesitate to call the shooter a psychopath. He comes from a shattered culture, a conquered people. Conquered by an alien race. They sure as hell didn’t ask to join our society. There is still a great deal of animosity between the tribes and the non-tribes driven in large part by the Bolt Decision over tribal fishing and foraging rights. We have taken damn near everything and plenty still resent them their pitiful rights. Some tribes have done well in the casino business, others due to unlucky location and or bad management, have not.
This from last March
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-hard-lives–and-high-suicide-rate–of-native-american-children/2014/03/09/6e0ad9b2-9f03-11e3-b8d8-94577ff66b28_story.html
[“The circumstances are absolutely dire for Indian children,” said Theresa M. Pouley, the chief judge of the Tulalip Tribal Court in Washington state and a member of the Indian Law and Order Commission.
Pouley fluently recites statistics in a weary refrain: “One-quarter of Indian children live in poverty, versus 13 percent in the United States. They graduate high school at a rate 17 percent lower than the national average. Their substance-abuse rates are higher. They’re twice as likely as any other race to die before the age of 24. They have a 2.3 percent higher rate of exposure to trauma. They have two times the rate of abuse and neglect. Their experience with post-traumatic stress disorder rivals the rates of returning veterans from Afghanistan.”]
Fryberg may have been an extreme narcissist, which may or may not be manifested overtly. The execution-style murders were an expression of pride or establishment of dominance. Hell hath no fury like a narcissistic personality scorned.
One small variable this shooting shares with many others at high schools is the school was quite large. One report had it at 2,500 students. I once saw a study which recommended that high schools not have more than 500 students. In large schools kids fall between the cracks. One girl interviewed by the news was next to the table which was shot up. She said she knew none of those students.
I was sickened by what I saw on his Twitter feed. And I wouldn’t refer to him as a “child” based on those tweets.
Granted that a 14-year-old isn’t exactly a “child,” he wasn’t an adult either. I have a hard time imagining that this level of pathology could be masked as completely as Neo suggests in someone so young. Maybe more will come out in time, but for now people who knew him and his family say he was “one of our good kids,” “sweet,” “a very good child.” (That last was from an elementary school counselor who knew him as a bona fide child.) I am sickened too, and bewildered by the mystery.
As far as I can tell, this is a photo of Jaylen Fryberg with Nate Hatch, the cousin/best friend that your post mentions.
Extremely sad and disturbing.
I’m not sure what happened to the link formatting there–sorry about that.
CW has it that guys like this would be torturing small animals and drawing pictures of eviscerated parents or something. Working up to the final snap, in a manner of speaking. Any evidence?
Lurker. “shattered culture”. The authentic Native American culture is neolithic with a metric load of internecine warfare for seasoning. Okay, so now they have a different one. The frontier closed over a hundred years ago, which is considerably more time than it took for clannish Hibernians to adopt to big-city machine politics.
Eventually, people take responsibility, or don’t.
We have a couple of local groups which take kids west to help out on several of the poorer rez. They build beds for the NA children and so forth. They need funds to do that. What, I asked one of the promoters, would happen if you took that money and mailed a bunch of Home Depot gift cards.
He was annoyed, because what would happen–nothing at best, or the expeditions wouldn’t be necessary–is not supposed to be mentioned.
And everybody knows it.
Neo,
I agree there’s more to this.
Scrolling through the picture album that Tara linked, it looks like he was a well-integrated boy with a large close-knit family in a close-knit community with good friends. Well-loved. Solidly middle-class in terms of material needs and wants. He seemed to check all the boxes for a well-rounded upbringing of a young man. More than that, he was clearly a leader among his peers. Contrary to Lurker’s broad brush stroke, Fryberg didn’t fall through the cracks. He was not alienated. He was a high-riser, somebody who, even at his age, appeared firmly on track to be a star of his family and community. A man who could choose his life, but who would make sure his life was rooted in family and community.
Other than the love-betrayal angle, his act doesn’t make sense, except for some kind of extraordinary mental breakdown.
Add: His FB picture album uploads dropped off a lot this year, which could mean anything or nothing. Perhaps just putting away childish things. But then, he had more to say on Twitter.
He was proud of his Native American culture. It appears that boys and girls in his community take on defined grown-up roles sooner rather than later. He committed this murder-suicide when he should have been starting his transition to a leader of his community.
Eric (and others):
It’s no longer certain that the shooter committed suicide. He may have shot himself accidentally while a teacher was grappling with him—that is, if this report is true. It’s very unclear what the situation was.
And as far as “making sense” goes, it could make sense if he was a psychopath. I am NOT saying he was, just that it’s a possibility, and the one that makes most sense.
I wrote about psychopathy in this PJ article. Maybe it’s time to revisit the quote I offered there from a classic work on the subject by Hervey Cleckley:
Fryberg was upset by some sort of breakup (which has been variously reported as having been with a girlfriend, but also reported as having been a girl he asked out who refused him and went out with his cousin instead). How deep did the upset go? He apparently showed almost no outward sign of it—other than a few remarks on a Twitter feed.
Again, I have no idea whether this fits. But it might fit.
Mrs Whatsit:
See my comment right above this one.
Psychopaths, young or old, are experts at masking. If you’re interested, you might want to take a look at Cleckley’s book.
Add2: His girlfriend, who apparently attends a different HS, was not one of his victims. Another puzzling piece.
Eric:
Very interesting. I was waiting for word on that; nothing had been said about till now. Do you have a link for that?
This may mean that one of the girls he killed or wounded was a girl he’d asked out for a date and who had refused him, as the alternate story I read had said.
I have no idea whether that story is even true, however.
Neo,
His GF: https://twitter.com/Shilenegeorgiaa
“sophomore at KHS”, also not one of the named victims.
Eric:
The girl who was killed has not yet been named, as far as I know.
And see, for example, this:
As is common with these sorts of incidents, there’s still a lot of confusion and contradictory stories about what happened.
Neo,
Zoe Galasso, who (apparently) was dating Andrew Fryberg.
https://twitter.com/zoegalasso
Neo. Cleckley’s bit about not making extensive plans seems to rule out several recent cases; Columbine, the Aurora shooting, possibly Newtown (although he might have decided that morning and just started), and VA tech. Although the VAtech guy wasn’t masked very well, come to think of it.
In addition, one would think a guy couldn’t get to his position in terms of positive regard of others and accomplishments with “weak restraints”. You’d figure he’d have busted through his weak restraints some other time, although less horribly and not been considered a really great kid with a future.
Eric:
I hadn’t seen that. Thanks.
Article in NY Daily News that names her and describes the situation doesn’t say she and Fryberg had been boyfriend and girlfriend. It’s still confusing what their relationship was. Had they had a long-term (or what passes for long-term between 14-year-olds) relationship? Had he merely asked her out, and she refused and dated his cousin instead? It’s very unclear, but no mention of a LTR.
RA:
I actually think he’s wrong about the extensive plans business.
He was especially good, though, at describing the seeming outside-normalcy of psychopaths—the “mask” aspect.
I think Eric Harris of Columbine was indeed a psychopath. See this for why.
Having read Cleckley’s book, and been impressed by it, I think he may have erred in leaving out the more violent psychopaths who do plan. His book described his work with psychopaths, but the vast majority of them were into very petty crimes. I think he was generalizing from that.
Not all, or even most, psychopaths commit very serious crimes. The ones who do, though, are sometimes spontaneous and sometimes plan. I think he missed the latter group.
RA:
Maybe until now nothing in his life had gone all that wrong, so there wasn’t a whole lot of rage to bust through the weak restraints. He was a golden boy.
Clearly, though, his restraints WERE weak. Because he ended up blowing away 5 kids over something that almost every other person on earth experiences at some time or other—some sort of disappointment in love. At least, that’s the story we’ve heard so far.
Neo,
From Galasso’s twitter, it appears that she and cousin Andrew were dating. I haven’t seen clear indicators in their twitter accounts and facebook that she and Jaylen were romantically linked.
Andrew Fryberg: https://twitter.com/fryberg1
Andrew and Zoe Galasso were dating.
Again, I’ve seen speculation in media but not corroboration on the kids’ respective social media accounts that Jaylen and Zoe Galasso were romantically involved.
Eric:
That’s what I mean.
At least if there had been a long-term relationship of some sort, and then she broke up with him and started dating his cousin, Fryberg’s crime (although completely and totally inexcusable) would have a motive people could at least see as somewhat serious. A broken heart, or something like that.
But a girl he wanted to date, who refused him and preferred the cousin? That is such a mild thing, and so common, that it’s more ammunition for the “psychopath” possibility.
By the way, it’s beginning to remind me slightly of the Santa Barbara shooter, who felt rejected by pretty women. The two murderers had very different histories (the Santa Barbara guy was reported to have been a misfit, and this shooter most definitely was not). But the spark seems to have been women, or a woman, saying “no” to them.
The wounded girls were apparently friends of the dead girl. He also seems to have shot everyone in the head, and perhaps the face. The motive was to kill or possibly to disfigure, I think.
Neo,
It appears the relationsip that Jaylen Fryberg was upset about was with his girlfriend, Shilene George.
Again, it’s not clear what connection his relationship with Shilene George had with murdering and attempting to murder a group who were his childhood friends, including 2 cousins.
Eg, perhaps he tried to ask out Zoe Galasso, which then broke his relationship with Shilene George and perhaps affected his other friendships in their circle as well.
Ran into a case where a guy carried an eroticized grudge for forty years and finally got his opportunity to embarrass the woman in question. She didn’t attend the function, being out of town, but the attempt was blatant.
I suppose he thought he hadn’t gotten what he had been promised, or deserved, or something. She was hot, so I guess wishful thinking could become solidified.
RA,
That sounds a little like the Doobie Brothers song, “What a Fool Believes.”
Rufus.
Yeah, but think of the energy involved in carrying this burden for two-thirds of your life.
I suppose, for the prepared-to-be-warped (a term of high art in the shrink field), it might all be concentrated in the immediate instead of spreading out. Then, bang. So to speak.
Some years ago, having lunch with a client and a couple of his staff, I noticed one of the women had a strangely-shaped mouth. Not distorted, not weird, not ugly, just barely noticeable. When the waiter took her order, she thanked him with a smile which lit up the room. A zillion watts. By accident, by the construction of her mouth, when she smiled, even a social/automatic smile, she was far beyond anything you’d expect. So a guy, getting a social smile from her, might feel himself well and truly encouraged. Then he finds out the reality….
No one holds the media responsible for indoctrination and propaganda triggers.
wrt Columbine. Bullies is the go-to because it allows the Right Sort of Person to blame those who are anathema; jocks, white guys, etc. It also provides an out for those wishing to avoid the possibility of the existence of either evil or mental issues we cannot address in time. And it offers the possibility that something might be done.
All good.
From what I have seen of Shilene George’s Facebook entries it looks like she was disappointed in someone she was involved with (and she was involved with Jaylen) and their wanting to be involved with another girl when still involved with her. On another site they said that she was jealous of his interest in another girl and she very recently broke up with him.
I would be interested to know if Jaylen had ADHD
or some form of mental illness, perhaps in the early stages. Also if he had any learning disabilities or was using drugs. This is not to excuse his behavior only to seek a fuller understanding of him.
As to The Mask of Sanity. I have read it and agree that Jaylen could have been a sociopath/psychopath. They are very clever and can be very charming and appear to fit in.
I hope someone does a complete study of him and gets to the roots of his behavior. People keep saying you can’t know why someone behaves as he did. I don’t agree. If you can get a complete and honest history you usually can understand whey they did what they did.
Oophs! Correction – why not whey!
Neo: “He may have shot himself accidentally while a teacher was grappling with him”
Early investigation reporting is Fryberg was confronted by a teacher but there was no physical contact, which points to suicide rather than unintentionally shooting himself in a struggle. The reporting also says he invited his friends to join him for lunch. It appears his intent was targeted killing of his childhood friends and not a generalized shooting spree, eg, he didn’t shoot that teacher.
Off-the-wall theory based on nothing reported: What if he killed his friends not because he was angry at them but because they were that important to him? What if he was committed to committing suicide and wanted his best friends with him in the afterlife? Again, that’s based on nothing reported, but I was thinking of suicidal parents who kill their children whom they love.
Eric:
I assume you’re referring to this report.
However, the very same article quotes an eyewitness as saying the opposite. There’s a video, too. This kid was right next to the table, and called 911:
As far as your theory about the murder motive goes, the same thing had occurred to me but I rejected it. That’s because, although it’s not an unusual motive for parents who murder children, I’ve never heard of it with peers. It seems quite limited to parent/child murders, or sometimes elderly spouses (but that tends more to be a suicide pact). I have never heard of such a thing with an adolescent and friends. That would be an even greater pathology, in a way—a narcissism so extreme that it causes a person to think his friends can’t live without him. I just don’t think that’s what was going on here at all. I suppose we’ll learn more as time goes on.
Neo,
I read it here:
http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Girl-wounded-in-Washington-school-shooting-dies-5849711.php
Other coverage of the same press conference repeat the basic reporting.
Eric:
The article you just linked has the same paragraph as the article I just linked. The eyewitness in the video contradicts it. I don’t know how the police could determine whether she touched him or not, except by eyewitness testimony.
Ah. Your link points to the same press conference. I don’t see in the reporting that the sheriff explained why he concluded there was no physical contact and the ME determined Fryberg committed suicide rather than an accidental death.
Neo,
I assume the sheriff talked to the teacher at least, if not every witness, but again, his reasons aren’t reported.
The research you cite here about Eric Harris &Dylan Klebold has been spread by Dave Cullen whose book on Columbine is dubious at best.
Go here to see the controversy about Cullen and his book by people who have researched the matter for years.
http://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/search?mode=searchbox&search_keywords=cullen&show_results=topics