Another controversial shooting by police
Here’s another shooting of a black man who turned out to be unarmed, but was actively resisting arrest by fighting with the officer:
According to Sgt. Trent Crump, the officer responded Tuesday to reports of someone selling drugs out of a Cadillac SUV. Upon locating the SUV, he ordered Brisbon, the sole occupant, to show his hands.
Authorities say Brisbon ran inside an apartment building and then got into a struggle with the officer. Brisbon put his hand in his pocket, and when the officer grabbed the hand, he thought he felt the handle of a gun through Brisbon’s pants, police said.
Police say the officer repeatedly told Brisbon to keep his hand in his pocket, then shot him twice when he didn’t.
Brisbon, an ex-convict, was hit in the torso and later pronounced dead at the scene. Investigators recovered a semi-automatic handgun and a jar of marijuana from his SUV.
An internal investigation is already underway, Crump said Thursday. The Maricopa County attorney’s office will determine whether the officer will face criminal charges. Police did not identify the 30-year-old officer but said he is a seven-year veteran of the department.
So, what would the protestors have had the officer do? Apparently, police are expected to allow themselves to be shot to prove what good guys they are. Eric Garner presented a different situation than this one because he wasn’t attacking anyone. Michael Brown definitely was the aggressor, however, and this guy Brisbon (who was an ex-con) seems to have been fighting, too.
The moral of the story is that resisting arrest is not good for your health. Not following instructions about where to put your hands is not good for your health, either. Outraged demonstrators don’t care, however.
Even I, mild-mannered white woman of a certain age, know better than to make any sudden movements when stopped by police, and to keep my hands visible. I try to throw in a few “sirs,” too, if I can remember to do so.
Then again, I don’t have a police record, and I’m not aware of many crimes I’ve committed, except traffic violations. But when you’re caught, you’re caught; resisting arrest sometimes works, but the costs can be high. I suppose if you would rather die than go back to prison, though, it makes sense to try.
I recall a day when something that happened across the country did not make it on the local news.
No longer.
With the 24/7 news cycle and cable news and internet and social media and Progresso soup can-communication, we are dished up nearly every arrest, shooting, killing that happens in America. Makes the country smaller. Gives the appearance that it is happening right there in our own town.
330,000,000 people. BIG. Lots of stuff happens. Good stuff. Bad stuff. I hate that people are killed for no reason. I prefer hearing about the killings of those ISIS types. The bad guys.
Mr. Garner should never have died. Hell, he should never have been arrested for selling a cigarette.
“Divide and Conquer”. The mantra of the Left. YeeHaw, they are loving all of this…
I am curious though. What is the present body count for young blacks in Chicago? Rounded to the nearest hundred is okay too…
There is nothing ‘controversial’ about this shooting, it should be investigated, as all shootings by police should be but it appears to be fully justified.
Geoffrey:
Controversial because people are demonstrating.
On those very rare occasions over the years where I’ve dealt with the police in a potentially adversarial situation, rule number one is always to be very VERY polite, and courteous and cooperative with the officer, to the point of unadulterated unctuousness.
It has never cost me anything to be the very example of Emily Post courtesy.
And I know it has been the primary reason that every one of those rare occasions – even the time 30 years ago I got the entirely-appropriate moving traffic violation from the CHP officer just south of Crescent City – has ended quietly, with grace (and often with a smile and a laugh), and in my favor.
Can’t hurt. Might help. Highly recommended.
Neo
The moral of the story is that resisting arrest is not good for your health. Not following instructions about where to put your hands is not good for your health, either. Outraged demonstrators don’t care, however.
Even I, mild-mannered white woman of a certain age, know better than to make any sudden movements when stopped by police…
A childhood friend of the Afro-American persuasion went to law school and for a while, had a solo practice. I don’t remember how this conversation began, but at one point in the conversation I said that when I had an encounter with the police, I made a point to be low key and polite.
Her response was, “That’s what I tell my clients to do.” The implication here being that many of her clients considered it a point of honor to be confrontational with the police, and that she needed to instruct them that there was a better way to handle an encounter with the police.
My condo complex has had a number of police calls in recent months, many of them caused by a former tenant who, in his hostile drunk mode, tried to sic the police on whomever he selected as his target of the day. I have been very much impressed by the cool, calm manner in which the local police have been able to separate actionable offenses from BS. From what I have seen, it is hard to BS a policeman, and this hostile drunk tried might hard to do so.
One time police were called on a homeless person who was found sleeping on the property. The policeman who came could not have handled it better. He told the homeless person that the next time he was on property, he would be arrested. After the homeless person left, the policeman said that many homeless people have an alcohol problem- as this one did. Firm, but calm and understanding.
From what I have seen, police are often cast into the role of psychiatric social workers, and from what I have seen, do a pretty good job of it.
Folks, we’re seeing OfA in action, again.
This is the ex-ACORN crowd.
They are ‘on retainer’ awaiting any racially oriented fiasco/ controversy to leap into the streets.
Like ANY ‘community activist’ would.
These groups are organized just like any Chicago ward.
&&&&&&
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prison.htm
La Griffe du Lion spells out exactly why — mathematically — Blacks are so often in prison.
The counter-intuitive reality is that the racial imbalance is most severe in LIBERAL jurisdictions.
It’s a few pages — and highly significant to the current debate.
#1 Killer of blacks in this country is…
Abortion.
Protest that.
Killer article blert.
It kind of read like a lecture from the old TV series Numb3rs (we’ve been watching the series the past several weeks via Amazon Prime).
This made it to my Evernote file cache.
Thanks!
A guy with his hands by his sides, ignored the police, murdered. Another guy with his hands on a sword, ignored the police, murdered. The first case was defended on suspicion. The second case was defended on probable cause. The first case was mostly uncontroversial. The second case is still discussed in the news. The difference… Well, the context of this thread explains the “controversy”.
That said, I believe the justification to commit murder is the same for government agents (e.g. police officers) and the public alike: imminent threat, right? Or is it immediate threat?
“Here’s another shooting of a black man who . . . was actively resisting arrest by fighting with the officer . . . .”
Brown, Garner, Brisbon: the common thread.
I have my own a long-ago, personal experience of coming within a split second of shooting a prisoner, who charged me. The experiences described below have informed me ever since, as I follow the news of defensive shootings, riots, and prison problems.
In 1965 I had just moved to Los Angeles at 19 years old, a rube from white North Dakota. The first of the black riots broke out, in Watts. I lived 30 miles away, in a northern section of Los Angeles. I never felt personal danger, but was certainly fascinated. That riot ended with 34 deaths.
Two years later, having been drafted for Vietnam, I was in the 101st Airborne Division’s stateside post, Fort Campbell, Kentucky. I had volunteered to be a paratrooper. I was assigned and trained on the 105 mm howitzer, which was my military occupational specialty (MOS).
My artillery battery was assigned to provide a week of stockade (prison) support to take low risk Army prisoners on work details, such as cleaning buses in the motor pool. We had a day or so of training for this. We were to be armed with a 12 gauge, pump-action shotgun, loaded, but no shell in the chamber. We were instructed that in an altercation, we had to shoot rather than hesitate and risk having the gun taken by the prisoner.
Each of us were assigned two prisoners each. Coincidentally, one of my two had been on my barracks floor before he was sent to the stockade for AWOL (absence without leave}, which meant that I knew what his offense had been. We were not friends, however. We got into a verbal altercation about his slacking off. Suddenly, he started to charge me. I reacted instantly, as instructed, and jacked a shell into the chamber. He froze at that ominous sound. If he had taken another step, I would have fired.
I then called for backup from the stockade. I was rewarded for my response by being assigned, for the rest of the week, to taking prisoners to medical and dental appointments, armed with a .45 pistol.
In summer 1967 some of our battalions were sent to Detroit for a riot that ended with 43 deaths. Later that year I went, with my Artillery battalion, to Washington DC to be ready if the big peace march got out of hand. It didn’t, so we just killed time at an airfield.
These experiences have informed me ever since, as I followed news of shootings, riots, and prisons. The most important thing is, when things turn dangerous, deciding how to act often must me done in less than one second – not enough time for the careful contemplation that many pundits say could be done.
By the way, in 1957 Eisenhower sent the 101st Airborne into Little Rock, Arkansas, to enforce desegregation. In 1966, when I entered the 101st, I was impressed that there were, in the career enlisted ranks, many blacks who were courageous, competent and ambitious. I thought then that they thought it was a good escape from the oppression in The South.
Neo said, “The moral of the story is that resisting arrest is not good for your health. Not following instructions about where to put your hands is not good for your health, either.”
As John Wayne said, life is hard. It’s harder if you are stupid.
For some context, an acquaintance of mine was stabbed to death in D.C. after he parked in a spot that another man claimed was his. There are plenty of places and persons that are dangerous, and a policeman is going to need good judgment and a bit of luck not to get in trouble. It is not a job I envy.
So those of you who suggest complete submissiveness to the pint of servility believe this is the appropriate relationship between cops and you? Sad.
In addition to the link that blert provided , which uses data from 2000, there is a more recent study which uses data from the 2010 census
The disparity rates are different. In part this is because one study uses incarceration rates of males 18-64, and the other uses incarceration rates per entire population segment- the proverbial apples to oranges. It is possible that the disparity rates are different because they have gotten smaller in the last 10 years.
Until one changes apples to oranges or vice versa, one cannot make any conclusions about how the disparity rates have changed in ten years.
But both studies point to the same conclusion: more liberal states have greater disparity between white incarceration rates and black incarceration rates.
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html
Now that the left is looking at questionable police shootings maybe everyone will look at the 40,000 SWAT team raids each year which always result in terrorizing and intimidating the targets and neighbors and frequently result in dead people and the family dog, even little ten pound dachshunds.
On a practical level though, don’t screw around with cops or you may end up dead.
So, pacific_waters, just what do you suggest as proper behavior when stopped by a policeman? Inquiring minds want to know.
Would you suggest any of these approaches?:
“Haven’t met your quota of tickets yet today?”
“Gosh, officer, can’t you just give me a warning? I’m just about out of points.”
“Why aren’t you out chasing real criminals?”
“I was speeding because they just dished up the fresh donuts at the bakery. Surely you understand that?”
“Did you know I’m a personal friend of the Mayor?”
“These damn speed limits suck. Give me a break, man.”
“I didn’t think you gave tickets to white folks.”
“I’ll see you in court!”
This never gets old. Chris Rock’s educational video, “How Not to Get Your A** Kicked by the Police”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA
😉
Anytime and Officer is in a physical altercation (like Brown) and feels the subject reaching for a weapon (whether it is the subject’s own weapon or reaching for the officer’s weapon), the officer is generally trained that “all bets are off”. There is no telling what harm will be done if he retrieves either, but it’s usually deadly. Of course the situation is is even more dire when the officer is alone.
J.J.- And I would like to apologize for my tone yesterday. The Garner case has pushed a lot of my buttons lately. It’s been the subject of a lot of locker room talks and debates. I let your civil comments get to me. While I still disagree with you, based upon my training, it was uncalled for me to accuse you of carrying their water.
Now, I won’t enter the resisting arrest debate with you and pacific_waters. But I have very mixed feelings about the subject, because I have seen the charge abused very much.
On the subject of how to deal with the police, I have an interesting anecdote: one of the worst situations I have been in began with someone being so polite and, nearly obsequious, with myself and a fellow officer. But it was all an act. It also sent Red Flags off. Things got violent, quickly, like flipping a light switch.
Just like cops have bad days, so do citizens. A certain amount of surliness is normal and to be expected from some. They are having their routine interfered with after all.
So, pacific_waters, just what do you suggest as proper behavior when stopped by a policeman? Inquiring minds want to know.
Your behavior is very proper, JJ, for a serf. That’s sort of the point.
The idea that society is correct when people think a citizen’s duty is to Obey Authority… tells a lot about that society.
Ymarskar, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by being anything other than polite to cops that stop you, even if you are disagreeing with them on a car search, for example. In a confrontation on the street, the tactical advantages are all the cop’s.
Obviously Obama, Holder, Sharpton, and the whole race hustling industry have been inflating and inflaming racial tensions, with a cadre of professional Leftist agitators and troublemakers as their shock troops, with now a compliant Gov. Nixon and Mayor deBlasio added to that unsavory crew.
However, now that the election in which they used race to rev up the Black base is over, they are still going at it.
Turmoil, chaos, and violence are always the revolutionary’s friend.
So, what is Obama et al’s new objective?
Is this ginned up turmoil and street violence a way to eventually neuter state and local police forces, pull back some of the lethal surplus military equipment they have been given, and give more interventionist power to the Feds?
Is this to set the stage for the Left’s campaign themes for the 2016 Presidential election?
Or do they have something more harmful and of more lasting consequence in mind?
“Apparently, police are expected to allow themselves to be shot to prove what good guys they are. ”
Incorrect. Getting shot is required to prove the suspect’s civil rights were being respected.
Ymarasakar: “Your behavior is very proper, JJ, for a serf. That’s sort of the point.”
Which brings us around to what our government is supposed to be. In representative democracy the government derives it’s just powers from the people. We have elected people to make laws and then hired people to enforce them. Some of the laws are inevitably stupid – because we humans are deeply flawed. The police don’t get to decide which laws are stupid or shouldn’t be enforced. We are asking them to do a dirty, thankless job – that often doesn’t pay that well. We give them the power of life or death because that is often required to deal with the worst of the worst. Mistakes are made and human nature being what it is, defying their authority can lead to all kinds of tragedy – as we have seen only too well in the last months. If laws are stupid, we have to work to get them changed or repealed. That’s what responsible citizens do. They don’t ignore the laws or the LEOs we have hired to enforce said laws. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s better than any other I have seen. Our job is to work to try to keep the system (laws and enforcement of them) in some kind of bounds. You may think it’s not working, but would you prefer the system they have in North Korea, Cuba, or even Mexico?
You may have the way of the Samurai, I have my way. Good luck to you.
Jim Sullivan: No problem. I think we had a good debate. Good points were made on both sides. Debate allows us to organize our thoughts, deal with our feelings, and learn a bit more. Sometimes we even change our minds. 🙂
Wolla Dalbo: “Is this to set the stage for the Left’s campaign themes for the 2016 Presidential election?
Or do they have something more harmful and of more lasting consequence in mind?”
This is a continuation of the Gramscian play book of pitting various parts of the polity against one another. Divide and conquer. The Acorn, Occupy, Revcom, OFA, Move On, etc. are always ready to do their bidding.
They haven’t mentioned the “R” word openly yet, but methinks they are soon going to broach the subject of REPARATIONS. If they can convince enough LIVs that blacks are being hunted down and deprived of their civil rights, it would make a nice campaign issue for them. Maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see.
By the way, here’s an interesting interview with a New York cop.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/qa-an-nypd-officers-real-talk-on-garner-case.html
One of the highlights for me is that this policeman is claiming that in the past (under Mayor Dinkuns when crime was rampant?) they ignored the small stuff like Eric Garner and only went after the “big stuff.” That’s interesting. He seems to hate Ray Kelly because Kelly wants all laws enforced. (I think that began when Giuliani began going after the small stuff.) He talks about quotas, which is interesting, if true.
A lot of what he says about police work rings very true, as my retired cop neighbor has told me the same things. Especially about dealing with the under belly of humanity. They become kind of cynical in their view of all humans because of it.
We have elected people to make laws and then hired people to enforce them.
You didn’t hire anyone, proved by the fact that you lack the power to fire any of them, including America’s Emperor, Obola Hussein. This was repeated in the previous thread too.
When people hear “citizens”, they usually exclude the police, which shows what status they have.
The Leftist alliance has been training the police unions and then the police departments, to execute execution orders on targets. This has been the case for years.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=SWAT+wrong+house+kill&go=&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=target+focus+training&sc=8-18&sp=-1&sk=
People go with the excuse that the politicians have the power and the police departments are there to protect people, that criminals need to be dealt with, then they hit that wall above and they got nothing to say. That’s because a serf has nothing to say and no power to do anything about the above. They are not citizens, the police are not their equals nor their employees. People obey the police because they are afraid of them. Same thing usually under a police state, a slave plantation for Democrats, and an aristocracy. The serfs obey because the lords will kick them off the land, otherwise.
Yet this state of affairs is labeled a righteous “democracy”, as if that means anything.
By promoting any group, like the police or Leftist politicians, to a higher status like an aristocrat, you are already setting up the System to fall on top of you. These humans, most of them, cannot stay on that pedestal you put them on. They’re not going to protect the System, they’re not going to protect the people, and they’re not going to enforce the Laws, period.
http://www.copblock.org/27565/the-cop-block-tour-visits-detroit/
The system is already dead in places, except it’s still adhering to the aristocratic privilege of government monopoly and taxation.
Continue underestimating the Left and they’ll be showing you something more interesting than you’ve ever seen before.
Ymarsakar: “People go with the excuse that the politicians have the power and the police departments are there to protect people, that criminals need to be dealt with, then they hit that wall above and they got nothing to say. That’s because a serf has nothing to say and no power to do anything about the above. They are not citizens, the police are not their equals nor their employees.”
I get that you believe our system of government has failed. The words I hear from you are similar to what I hear from the Gramscians – “Revolt against the system!”
“Tear it down!”
“Don’t obey the laws you disagree with that have been made by these representatives.”
“Revolt, stand up for yourselves and tear the system down!”
“We disagree with the elected representatives because we didn’t vote for them – to the barricades!”
And replace it with what?
We may yet have a shooting civil war. I’m doing my best to change the system peacefully. Rejoice that you can still convey your displeasure about government to those who have been elected. Even when you didn’t vote for them and they don’t agree with you. You can’t do that in most places today.
J.J.
One of the highlights for me is that this policeman is claiming that in the past (under Mayor Dinkuns when crime was rampant?) they ignored the small stuff like Eric Garner and only went after the “big stuff.”
The turnaround in NYC crime began with application of the Broken Windows theory- go after the small stuff. For example, jumping a subway turnstile may be small stuff, but when cops went after turnstile jumpers, they found out that many of those arrested for turnstile jumping had a lot of arrest warrants out on them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Kelly
Gringo: “The turnaround in NYC crime began with application of the Broken Windows theory- go after the small stuff. For example, jumping a subway turnstile may be small stuff, but when cops went after turnstile jumpers, they found out that many of those arrested for turnstile jumping had a lot of arrest warrants out on them.”
Tanks for the link. In reading it I see that Kelly was commissioner under Dinkuns and Bratton was commissioner under Giuliani when they cleaned things up by enforcing even the small stuff. So, don’t know why the NY cop hates Kelly so much. It would seem that Bratton was the man who changed things. Oh well, to each his own.
For those who are interested, here’s a story that happened in May and didn’t receive even a smidgen of national media attention. We all know why.
“White cop Kidnapped and Murdered by Black Men… Where’s the Media?”
http://wtvr.com/2014/05/16/kevin-quick-murder-charges/
The latest development in this story is that the death penalty will not be sought. WTF! If there is any crime that should be an automatic death penalty, it is for murdering a policeman. But our PC society cannot call a spade a spade anymore because……..it might upset the black community.
Which is well explained by Fred Reed:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/BlackPower.shtml