Eric Garner’s widow speaks out
I think that under the circumstances she’s being quite reasonable, too.
Esaw Garner knows her husband was a petty criminal and doesn’t argue otherwise. What’s more, I give her points for saying this:
I feel like ”” I don’t even feel like it’s a black and white thing, honestly, you know, in my opinion. I really don’t feel like it’s a black and white thing.
Mrs. Garner would have liked to have seen Officer Pantaleo have a day in court, and in that sentiment she is hardly alone, nor is it limited to partisans. It does seem at least arguable that undue force was exerted, considering the pettiness of the offense and the lack of violent resistance on the part of Garner. According to his widow, she had tried to prevent this from happening but failed, and it’s hard not to be sympathetic with her plight:
Eric Garner is seen at the beginning of the video frustrated, complaining that police are always hassling him. He’d been previously arrested for selling loose, untaxed cigarettes.
“They knew him by name. They harassed us. They said things to us. We would go shopping. You know, they ”” hi, cigarette man. Hey, cigarette man and wife. You know, stuff like that,” Esaw said.
“I would just say, I would just keep walking, don’t say anything, don’t respond, you know, don’t give them a reason to do anything to you. And he just felt like ”” but they keep harassing me. And I say, just ignore them, Eric. He said, how much can I ignore them? I would say, just stay away from the block. You know? Just find something else to do.”
Would that he had.
Since Kizzy Adoni was the officer supervising the whole thing, and could have stopped it, or changed its direction, or said something… its all moot…
the hold was not the illegal choke hold (holding the neck is not a “choke hold”, cutting off the flow of blood to the carotids IS the illegal hold, and Kizzy Adoni is a black female who was the officer overseeing it all)
and if Garner bought the cigarettes legally, he DID pay taxes on them… if he got them illegally, then he was guilty of more than just working without a venders license, but of smuggling cigarettes and tax evasion.
it also begs the question… why not sell some other item?
so why did he not switch his sales to something that did not need a venders license?
for those that want to know why he did not have a license
The maximum number of General Vendor licenses that DCA issues to non-veterans is limited by law to 853. DCA’s waiting list for non-veteran applicants is currently closed. The waiting list will not re-open for further registration until DCA has run through the current pool of non-veteran applicants.
the larger question is:
Why is selling loosies illegal?
a company can buy corn flakes, put themin a box and resel them as no name… but you cant sell rides from your metro card…
you cant break open a cig pack and sell them individually for profit. WHY?
because the state controls the means of production
so being enterprising in finding a niche, is illegal today
ergo 94 million people are out of work having to be suppoorted by those who do work…
State and federal laws ban the sale of loose cigarettes
and its up to local soviets (councils) to fight the sale under the idea that kids buy loosies to be cool.
basically… they make the claim that if it dont have a barcode, then its not intended to be broken up and sold separately… the same applies to package versions of things like gum… the individual gum at the counter has a barcode, the family pack does not.
now… how did we get to the point that a person cant do with what he has purchased legally what he will?
there are also movements aginst repairing things, and modifying them… the idea is that the seller retains ownership, and the buyer gets only permission to use the item.
there is also the question as to what right does the state enjoy using taxes as a social control device… where in the law is it ok to use taxes that way? what constitutional power is granted to control the people who grant power?
i doubt that the arguments and dicussion will cover the bigger issues of supervisor presence, why reselling legally purchased items is not legal, and tax code intended to control behavior vs pay bills.
The very term “untaxed cigarettes” is a misnomer.
IIRC, New York has ultra stiff taxes on cigarettes.
So Eric Garner was merely engaged in tax arbitrage — at retail. He had to be buying taxed cigarettes — from the wrong jurisdiction.
IIRC, the Mafia was, and is, heavily involved in exactly the same tax games… but we never hear about it.
This is what is to be expected with over-the-top taxation, which is one shade away from the Volstead Act.
The so called progressives who support gargantuan, ever more intrusive government are responsible for Garner’s death. They vote for the fascist nanny state. The police are merely following orders. When a member of their special victim class dies due to the laws enacted by their chosen overlords they go bipolar. Garner is dead because NYC is desperate for tax revenue. Howver, Garner lived a life of crime, the only choice for many chained to the welfare plantation. The outcome of such a life is often tragic.
When you watch the video it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that Eric Garner was murdered because he was selling single cigarettes. His death was probably a tragic accident by police who didn’t understand they were putting him in danger, but the emotional impact of the video is instantaneous. The left is exploiting that emotional impact to gin up hatred between the races.
It is good that Eric Garner’s family seem to realize that is wrong. Unfortunately anyone who opposes the left’s campaign to foment racial hatred is spitting in the wind.
A major problem in the Eric Garner case is that the left has misdirected justified anger away from themselves where it rightfully belongs for passing such stupid laws towards the police who are the grunts who they have hired to enforce their bad laws. Creating a myth that the cops killed Mr. Garner because he is black serves the purposes of the left extremely well.
Odd, when I watch the video I see a guy killing himself by being a total idiot, part of a long history of doing so.
It wasn’t news to him that he was breaking the law, it wasn’t news to him that he would be arrested, presumably he was familiar with his own health issues and he even knew how to dislodge someone who jumps up on your back. (Even if he only got one of the officer’s arms off.)
He still decided to resist arrest, and the ensuing exertion triggered the heart attack that killed him.
It is not murder to arrest someone for breaking the law, nor is it immoral to do so when they’re doing it in a way that rubs the nose of the law abiding in it– ie, the guy whose store he was in front of, who DID have to pay the taxes on his cigarettes.
Don’t like the law, then work to change it, don’t expect the cops to only enforce laws that you like.
The crime wasn’t, as I see it, what he was doing or what the cops did. I don’t want a day in court for that. What was criminal was penalizing people for enacting their will by trying to tax a behavior out of existence. The people who should be on trial are the people who placed that tax.
As for Garner, he was a criminal man with criminal intent. If it had not been cigarettes, it would have been something else. When you live outside of the law, basing your sustenance on crime, eventually you will find yourself in a place to make the choice he made, and potentially resulting in just what happened. It goes with the territory.
Perhaps it isn’t a black versus white thing. I suspect, however, that it is through cultural norms and typical behavior. Is that fair? Is IQ differences fair? Honestly, it doesn’t matter. Life isn’t fair. If you wait on fair, or fight for it, you will pay. Especially doing those things through illegal, immoral, and just plain wrong ways. What happened not only had to happen, it will continue to happen, and happen much more frequently as the “fair” crowd brings violence to bear, rather than learning to live within the system that does exist. It’s too big for them to tear down, ask the Native populations about that.
Victor Davis Hanson offers some outstanding comentary on where the outrage over the Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and Eric Garner cases are leading; “Ripples of Ferguson”
Commenter ‘Subotai Bahadur’ astutely opines;
“I would note that there is already experimental confirmation of your (Hanson’s) thesis. I offer France, the Zones Urbains Sensibiles, the 700+ Sensitive Urban Zones in France where Sharia law and not French law runs. The cops do not go there except in force and in transit. They know that if they should offend the perpetually offended, that riots will result and that if they survive they will be blamed. Similarly, there are analogs in Britain, Sweden, and Denmark.
What we are seeing is the beginning of literal Balkanization as the country splits into racial satrapies owing at best only nominal allegiance to the wider concept of American nationhood and society. The reference to the Balkans is deliberate. The Bevo neighborhood is now Bosnian, refugees from the Balkan genocide.
They know from personal experience what happens when the government chooses to favor one ethnic group over another. And they know that the only thing that prevents attacks is imposing a cost on the attacking ethnic group in general that the attackers do not want to bear. Given the history of Bosnia, they may have developed certain skill sets and aptitude towards that end.
Add in the factor that millions of foreign invaders from south of the former American border are coming in under the ethnic protection of the Federal government, favored over American citizens, and all the elements are there.”
In the larger scheme of things, there is much more at play here, than simply the deaths of three black men.
Neo, I agree with you – she does sound quite reasonable given the circumstances. Not accurate; but, reasonable. I truly do feel sorry for her and her sons. And I, too, would give her a lot of credit for stating that it wasn’t a race thing.
But, I also feel that the cops, especially the 29-year old, are being through a lot as well. They don’t deserve a day in court. They were just trying to enforce the law (and it could very well be a law they don’t agree with) and clearly this guy, despite his widow’s claims, has resisted arrest in the past. There are reports that his resisting arrest in the past has injured cops. So, there is a known history there.
Also, I find it interesting that so many are jumping on the medical examiner’s claim that it was homicide and seem to be ignoring the other facts in the medical examiner’s report – namely his health was also partly to blame for his death. If you have such severe health conditions you should exercise caution -he clearly didn’t.
Oh, and I will never expect anyone on the left to connect the “stupid” laws with the outcome of those laws.
I ran into this gem of a relevant article the other day… I can’t remember where, so apologies if it was here and I’m just echoing something already posted.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner
I’m with parker on this; the police were enforcing a law, and were merely the tool by which nanny state progressives get their kicks.
It truly burns me to think that the same people, who insisted that this law must be passed and that the police must enforce it, may now be the ones screaming about police brutality.
The police may well have acted with inappropriate force. I don’t know; I wasn’t there. I do know that they were trying to enforce the law. That’s their job.
I find myself wishing that politicians were honest enough to not simply pass laws, but to make it clear in the law what the intent of the law is… and for the law itself to include a sunset clause, for the law to expire automatically if the law’s stated intent is not met.
Examples are easy to think of. How much trouble would this country have been saved if, instead of passing a Prohibition Amendment, a Federal law had instead made the sale and distribution of alcohol illegal, IN ORDER TO reduce public drunkenness and alcohol-related crime… with the law automatically expiring, in two years or five years or ten years, if certain spelled-out criteria were not met?
I know — our politicians are neither than honest nor that ethical. Still, one can dream…
I have mixed feelings about the video and hence am not especially disturbed by the Grand Jury’s ruling. The officers applied what they believed to be a reasonable amount of force to effect the arrest. Note that they did not use weapons, nor did they beat Mr. Garner repeatedly as did the officers in the King video. The unfortunate result was largely the consequence of Mr. Garner’s poor health.
Now, the issue of the law they were attempting to enforce is another issue. People should realize that when the state criminalizes any conduct, yes, even petty conduct, it can result in a lawful arrest and police are authorized to use the force necessary to make the arrest.
In labor law we tell our members to obey first and then file a grievance. Don’t give management the added charge of insubordination. Petty criminals should be given the same advice. In major American cities like New York there’s an army of attorneys out there who are ready, able and willing to challenge the legality of an arrest and detention.
What it all comes down to is that there are hundreds of thousands of federal and state laws/regulations tthat criminalize the behaviors/actions of citizens that make most of us criminals at least once a week. Unless Garner bought illegal (not taxed) cigarettes for individual resale without paying the tax to NYC; what he did was the equivalent of anyone of us buying an item (paying the sales tax on said item) and then later selling said item at a garage sale and failing to remit sales tax to the overlords.
This is, as the widow acknowledges, not a racial issue. It is an issue over whether or not we wish to submit to the arbitrary whims of a fascist nanny state.
@denise
Of course Garner was comitting a crime. Of course it was police´s job to arrest him and they did the way they should.
The problem appears when Garner says “I can´t breath”. And he repetes. And again. And again. And nobody does nothing. Nobody looses. Nobody worries.
As I said in the other post, Garner behaved in a pacific and civilized way. He deserved to be treated and arrested in a civilized way. And that includes to be listened when he claims that he can´t breath.
parker Says:
December 8th, 2014 at 11:53 pm
Tax rates:
Pennsylvania $ 1.60/ 20 cigarette pack
New Jersey $ 2.70/ 20 cigarette pack
New York City $ 5.85/ 20 cigarette pack
So, it’s absolutely no surprise that the Mafia has been buying cigarettes by the carton in Pennsylvania and hustling them through a vast retail, penny ante, distribution chain in NY City.
The Mafia has been hip deep in tobacco tax evasion for as long as those taxes existed.
Indeed, the Mafia is famed for running cigarettes up from Virginia. It’s tax rate is $ 0.30.
$ 5.85 – $ 0.30 = $ 5.55 per pack
More than enough to justify Mafia involvement.
NYC has gone outside the Laffer curve.
So, NYC tobacco retailers are witnessing SAVAGE cannibalization of their cigarette sales by the Mafia distribution network.
If it’s news to you: the major cigarette wholesalers were corrupted generations ago by the Mafia — especially in New York City.
It went hand in hand with their Volstead Act operations. Cigarettes and booze go together like ham on rye, lox and bagel.
&&&&
All of this is but the tip of the tax-berg.
Barry Soetoro is darkening our economy — big time.
Eventually, America will resemble Italy, where all income is taxed at 110%… so everyone cheats.
For further history:
“Goodfellas” — the film — Henry’s first bust is selling hot cigarettes — by the truckload.
(!)
Someone upthread referred to this as murder. It wasn’t. The coroner ruled it a homicide. That’s not the same as murder. Murder is criminal homicide. There are other categories of homicide which are not criminal. If you kill someone in self-defense, for instance, that would be a justifiable homicide. This is why the grand jury heard the (overwhelming) evidence that Darren Wilson killed Michael Brown in self-defense. The left had their collective panties in a wad over that. But to indict, the prosecutor had to convince the grand jury that a) a crime had been committed and b) the individual they were considering indicting had committed it. If Darren Wilson had killed in self-defense then no crime had been committed. Lawfully using deadly force to resist unlawful deadly force means no crime had been committed.
More to the point, the left is sufficiently deranged that they staged a “die in” in an Apple store. The twisted pretzel logic of the left demands that we end capitalism because capitalism is a racist system. Like greed, apparently, racism wouldn’t exist if capitalism didn’t exist. And Eric Garner was killed by racism.
Well, asthma, diabetes, and hypertension killed him, too. But mostly racism.
Hello leftists! The police were shutting down capitalism when they killed Eric Garner. That’s what shutting down capitalism looks like.
“I feel like – I don’t even feel like it’s a black and white thing, honestly, you know, in my opinion. I really don’t feel like it’s a black and white thing. ”
Black lives matter!
But only when they advance the leftist agenda.
The problem appears when Garner says “I can´t breath”. And he repetes. And again. And again. And nobody does nothing. Nobody looses. Nobody worries.
That’s because they were taught the fact that if you can get the air to say that you can’t breathe, you are in fact getting enough air.
Did they remove this from CPR classes or something? I haven’t gone to one since I left the Navy, but that is one of the major ways to tell if someone is panicking or actually in trouble. If they’re in trouble, they can’t speak.
I got to apply this yesterday when my five year old stole a hard candy and swallowed it whole. She was crying because she felt like she couldn’t breathe, and told me about it.
This is before you consider the issue if criminals find out that all they have to do is say “I can’t breathe” and the police will stop trying to arrest them, even if they’ve been resisting up to that point and can reasonably be expected to continue to do so, to the point of injuring the officers involved.
In hindsight, it’s possible that he did feel like he couldn’t breathe, which would mean his heart attack happened earlier than thought, and he was brain dead before he got in the ambulance. Feeling like you can’t breathe is a possible sign of a heart attack.
My problem with an indictment has always been that one person was singled out of the whole team. The 2 sergeants (whom I didn’t know about at the time) were granted immunity in exchange for their testimony. The others in the team also had contact with Gardner. Why weren’r they charged? Given the ambiguity of the autopsy report, how can anyone say that only one member of this group should be prosecuted?
I’m glad that Mrs Garner spoke out against the racism charge. I hope her sons do well.
The reason why police are given special standards is because the citizens wish to be slaves and serfs. That’s why they voted in Hussein Obola. And even if the other citizens didn’t, they wish for something of the same kind, the pleasure of safety in obedience to Authority.
They dream of how much better it would be to rely on the godlike power of gov backed healthcare or gov backed security. In the end, they are weaklings looking for a master, and they will get one that they deserve all right.
A normal person cannot do what the police does, not because they lack the power or the will, but merely because society, the society of slaves, deems that only the police should have the special immunity. But that in itself sets up the police to fall into the pit. No human can be that virtuous for long, especially when they begin as a petty Democrat.