Mass murder in Charleston
Nine worshipers, including the pastor, were murdered at a historic black Charleston SC church yesterday during a prayer meeting. The shooter, 21-year old Dylann Storm Roof, had recently been arrested by authorities on drug charges.
The shooter was white and the victims black, and the word “evil” would appear to fit his actions very well. We can easily guess at the shooter’s motive, but according to some survivors (there were apparently only three of them) we don’t have to guess because he made his motive clear. It was racial hatred:
Pinckney’s cousin told NBC News that one of the survivors told her they had urged Roof to stop.
‘He just said: “I have to do it. You rape our women and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go”,’ Sylvia Johnson said.
Roof spared one woman so she could ‘tell the world what happened’, eye witnesses recounted, while a five-year-old girl also survived the attack after her grandmother told her to play dead. The gunman then fled.
Mug shots of the gunman from his previous arrest show a person with the dead eyes we’ve come to associate with murderers. A description of the methodical way he went about his business is chilling:
One survivor recounted how he reloaded his gun five times as he picked off his victims – killing three females and six males…
One again we have a demonstration of how an unarmed group is at the mercy [sic] of a person with a weapon. In Charleston, South Carolina, concealed carry laws are in effect, but they ban the carrying of a concealed weapon in various public places, and that includes churches. Here is the relevant law (at least, the law as of December 2013, when the article was written):
South Carolina isn’t an “open carry” state. If the gun is concealed, the CWP holder may carry the gun anywhere EXCEPT for the following places:
Restaurants that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption UNLESS you don’t consume any alcohol.
Police stations, Sheriff’s departments, or other law enforcement facilities.
Jails or detention centers.
Courthouses/courtrooms.
Polling places on election days.
Offices or meeting places of governmental entities such as counties, cities, and school districts.
School or college athletic events not related to firearms.
Daycares or preschools.
Places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
Churches or religious sanctuaries unless permission is given by the head of the facility.
Hospitals, medical clinics, doctor’s office or other places where medical services are rendered unless permission is given by the head of the facility.
Businesses or other establishments that post “No Concealed Weapons Allowed” signs or that otherwise express that they do not want concealed weapons on their premises.
Homes, apartments, or other dwellings unless you have the express permission of the person living at the residence.
If you bring the gun to a school or college of any kind, don’t carry the gun on you. It must be in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle.
That’s an awful lot of exceptions. The exceptions create gun-free zones—except, that is, for murderers such as Roof, who don’t care about the gun laws except as far as they can exploit them to find a group of unarmed people to kill.
So the fallout from this crime will no doubt include the anti-gun people screaming for more gun control, although it’s hard to see how that would have prevented Roof from getting his gun legally and certainly not from getting it illegally. It seems to me that allowing more concealed carry areas would make a great deal more sense, because it would have given Roof notice that someone (or maybe many someones) at that church might have been armed, too.
Other fallout from the massacre will probably be something I’m assuming was one of the shooter’s main goals: a heightening of anger and hatred between blacks and whites and whites and blacks and just about everyone else, too. This was the act of a single person, but some will presume it speaks for a group, white people—and that was probably just what Roof wanted.
[NOte: Several things come to my mind on thinking about this crime. One was the killing of four black girls in 1963 in Birmingham, Alabama. The perpetrators were white supremacist members of the KKK, the mechanism was dynamite, and the venue was the 16th Street Baptist Church.
That was back in the segregated south, and although things have changed greatly since then, people like Roof will always remain—as will their mirror images who want to kill members of other groups.
Remember, for example, the Sikh temple shooting in Wisconsin in 2012? That’s another thing that came to mind for me. The perpetrator was a white supremacist who “had talked about an ‘impending racial holy war.'” Why the Sikhs? We’ll never know because the shooter killed himself after his murders, after being shot by one of the policeman who had arrived on the scene in response to a call.]
I’ve read that he was given the gun by his uncle as a birthday gift and that he had been arrested for drugs.
Nikki Haley’s response was excellent. She emphasized the unity both of the various police forces who worked to find Roof and of the whole state in supporting the church and the families of the dead.
As usual, Obama couldn’t let an opportunity go to waste and called for gun control laws. That was right before he headed off for another fundraiser.
warning..
if your therapist is a political liberal, and you comment like the comments here, then you may find yourself in therapy with a destroyed life… if they are a therapist and sociopath using their job to hurt people and be protected, be sure that your life will be made horrible.
same is true if you work like i do in liberal wacko central… where telling the truth makes you insensitive, racist, and someone to be negated…
therapy wont cure that..
the best you can do is isolate yourself from such people… or compromise your knowlege, intergrity, ability to debate, etc.
his was the act of a single person, but some will presume it speaks for a group, white people–and that was probably just what Roof wanted.
Salon: ‘White America Must Answer For’ Charleston Church Massacre
I’ve been suspecting for a couple of months or longer that something like this was going to happen; that with the long build-up of black on white violence happening — but always downplayed in the media — that some white person would just snap.
I hope and pray that Charleston surprises everyone, despite the efforts of the race agitators and the MSM (I heard on the radio that Al Sharpton was on his way down there as of this morning).
Here’s a discussion on NRO of an early example of where the MSM is going to go with this story.
Art: You beat me to it!
Ohhhh, yeeeeesh . . . well, here we go-o-o-o . . .
Grab yer popcorn, sports fans, the Silly Season is here again, with the usual suspects calling, as usual, for more of the (usual) measures that will accomplish exactly what the existing (usual) measures accomplish.
(Well, yes, it accomplishes the usual breast-beating and replenishing the coffers of the left — as usual.)
Once more we see that: “Gun Free Zones = Free Fire Zones.”
I’m so disturbed by the murders that I don’t know where to start, though I feel that even if concealed carry in churches in SC was allowed that it wouldn’t have mattered. (Seriously, elderly “church ladies” carrying guns to a Wednesday night prayer meeting? And then using them? That’s ridiculous.)
This event will, unfortunately, become a flashpoint of gun rights arguments and I fear obscure the horror of what actually happened.
I’m a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment but feel that nine people wouldn’t have been murdered if this monster had a knife instead of a 45. There’s no doubt in my mind that the monster’s gun accounted for a higher body count than would have happened otherwise.
This doesn’t change my faith in the system, or the importance of the 2nd amendment and our right to bear arms, but sometimes I wish I could lay my beliefs on a shelf, walk away from them for a while, and go get them back when I feel better. This is one of those times…
Adam Lanza’s mother took him shooting, possibly during the time frame she was trying to have him committed.
Kip Kinkel’s dad, a high school counselor, got the kid a gun, apparently to make him feel better or something.
Be interesting to know if this clown has any mental health history and wonder, as with the first two, what the hell the parents were thinking.
Sorry all, my link to David French’s post at NRO was to the Corner generally (which has now moved on to other subjects). Try this link instead:
David French June 18, 2015 1:27 PM:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/419990/south-carolina-suspect-caught-and-politicization-begins-david-french
There seems to be a ‘type’ of young man who fits the mold. This one resembles Adam Lanza and and the Batman shooter and the congresswoman shooter and ALSO – the german pilot. They were all mentally deranged somehow.
Neo-Neocon:
Actually, that list is a bit more lenient than the concealed carry restrictions here in Michigan; Michigan also excludes entertainment venues that seat more than 2,500 people, meaning that most cinemas are gun free zones as well (although it is a bit of a grey area), and a bit more stricter on carrying in bars.
The church restriction is actually conditional. You can carry a firearm in a church, or other religious institution, if you get the permission of the pastor/deacon/or other head of the facility beforehand. I also noticed that the same conditions apply to medical facilities in SC.
Since I would assume (I know, I know) that most of the government facilities all have some form of armed security (poling places probably won’t, which is a problem); the only one that’s troubling are schools, where the restrictions are supposed to give the impression of protecting the students while actually leaving them vulnerable.
Here’s a bit of trivia for you; in Michigan it is illegal to carry a concealed pistol into a public school, but it is legal to open carry. :/
KRB
Michael–your comment expresses so well how I (and probably most people) am feeling about this terrible thing. Very well said. Thanks.
Michael Says:
“I’m a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment but feel that nine people wouldn’t have been murdered if this monster had a knife instead of a 45. There’s no doubt in my mind that the monster’s gun accounted for a higher body count than would have happened otherwise.”
Neo’s historical example of explosives is not a one off. The same argument you’re making regarding a knife, unfortunately, can also be made about pistols. A pistol is less deadly, typically, than attacks with explosives. The deadliest school attack in the US was with a bomb… If you take away guns there is no reason to think people will trade down to a knife instead of up to explosives.
I wonder if this kid had Charlie Manson type motives. Was he hoping to trigger a Helter Skelter scenario?
I’ll add I have the opposite feelings about it. This person stopped to reload several times… someone could have stopped him / shot him if they had a weapon.
Now I resent being unable to carry my pistol, concealed, in my state considering the possibility of copy cat or retaliatory attacks.
Law abiding people (including African Americans) should consider buying a gun, and learning how to use it, to protect themselves from these attacks.
Michael Says: I’m so disturbed by the murders that I don’t know where to start, though I feel that even if concealed carry in churches in SC was allowed that it wouldn’t have mattered.
The New Life Church shooting
A former police officer from Minnesota named Jeanne Assam was at church when a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray began firing at parishioners in the parking lot. Murray claimed two victims before Assam opened fire on him with her personally owned concealed weapon. After receiving multiple hits from Assam, Murray then shot himself.
-=-=-=-=-=-
its not the only one… you can find quite a few
the issue is that they are not reported BECAUSE the number dead is often none…
The Parker Middle School dance shooting
Andrew Wurst showed up to his middle school dance with his .25-caliber pistol. He fired it, killing a teacher, wounding a second one, and injuring two students. The 14-year-old’s shoot-out lasted about 20 minutes. It was ended when James Strand, the owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, confronted Wurst with his personal shotgun. He ordered Wurst to drop his weapon and held the teenager in place for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground, and then searched him for other weapons.
The Golden Market shooting
The details are murky but according to reports, a man entered a Golden Market in Virginia in 2009 and began firing a gun. He shot and wounded the clerk and then began firing at patrons inside. He ran out of ammo and was attempting to reload when he was shot, wounded, and then subdued by a permit holder who happened to be in the store.
Concealed Permit Holder Stops Attempted Mass Shooting in Chicago
On Friday, an Uber driver with a concealed carry permit thwarted an attempted mass shooting by pulling his own weapon and shooting a gunman who had opened fire in Chicago’s Logan Square.
Concealed Carry Permit Holder Stops Gunman During Attempted Mass Shooting
On March 22 a man who opened fire on children and adults in a Philadelphia barbershop was shot and killed by a citizen with a concealed carry permit.
lots and lots of them
but we dont report that…
elderly “church ladies” carrying guns to a Wednesday night prayer meeting? And then using them? That’s ridiculous
sorry… but they HAVE done that..
though not necessarily at prayer meeting
guns are a equalizer, where a 85 year old women too weak to do much, can take down a 25 year old 250lb thug…
Pearl High School October 1, 1997
Appalachian Law School January 16, 2002
Muskegon Shooting August 23, 1995
Santa Clara Gunshop July 5, 1999
Aniston Shoney’s Shooting
Early Texas Peach House Shooting
AT&T store
College Park
Winnemuca Shooting
Parker Middle School Dance Shooting
Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012
Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing.
Tyler Courthouse Shooting
Clackamas Concealed Carry Showdown
1915 Brunswick GA Mass Shooting story
Doctor Stops Murderer at Phildelphia Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital 24 July, 2014
Philadelphia Barbershop shooting stopped by Armed Citizen with CCW Permit
Los Altos Skate Park Shooting
Conyers Georgia Magnet Bottle Shop Shooting
ALL were mass shootings stopped by someone with a gun, sometimes cops off duty, sometimes security off duty, sometimes citizens, etc.
Note that the Texas AM tower shootings were helped by citizens showing up and shooting which pinned the person down, and allowed a cop and a civilian to shoot him.
he was a really really good shot…
you only have to look at a map of the area, and see where his victims were… amazing shooting
Michael Says:
I’m a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment but feel that nine people wouldn’t have been murdered if this monster had a knife instead of a 45.
you dont have to lay your beliefs aside, you just have to expand what you know…
go here
Improvised firearm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
you will learn that you can make a gun out of stuff from your local plumbing store… not to mention that when i was young, they would break off a car antenna, tape it to a board, use a rubber band, and a 22 caliber cartridge, and voila, you have a gun
so your not going to make it go away with the law, not when youcan make them in home depot or any such supply, and you can buy metal stock, and things like drill presses cheap… the united states has too many makers of things to make guns illegal… not ot mention that all you would do is expand the drug drade menu of offerings… which tends to make things worse… as they can offer Ak47s fully automatic, dragunov sniper rifles, and throw in some hand grenades for good customers.
as to knifes.
Knife-wielding attackers kill 29, injure 130 at China train station
Twenty-nine people were killed and 130 were injured Saturday night when 10 men armed with long knives stormed the station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, the state news agency Xinhua reported.
China, communist state, and you get that with knifes..
Osaka school massacre
37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers
then there was the two military men slaughtered by an islamic in front of people and on camera in england… no guns, but that didnt stop him from killing the two soliders… the response was to tell soldiers not to dress like solders off base
here is the deal.. its not the weapon, its the person.. and if we didnt have guns, the wrong assumption is that they would say “no guns, cant do it, have to go home and watch tv”… that doesnt happen… they shift to other things… knifes are hard…but how hard is it for you to get behind the wheel and start mowing people down? happened in manhatten..
the unabomber is a good lesson in what someone can do with a bit of study…
the larger point is that for the most part, people with ability dont do this… there are literally lots of things one can do, but they dont.. if you knew what can be done, you would sit saying, wow, we are actually very safe from people… if you dont know, then you might think that making things disappear will work… but thats not true… even police get robbed of their guns…
mass murders are scary, but really really rare…
more common are collections of one off incidents, where the perpetrator attacks one person at a time over a stretch… like the black man hitting chinese women in ny now.
but whats really scary is the details on serial killers… these dont want to get caught, dont want a big out, and some of them are amazing… like the one that kept a camper in his drive, and would drug women, and torture hem to death. one escaped, and he and his wife were caught.
Luis Garavito had a proven killing of 138 people… thought to have killed as many as 400 or more.
Luis Garavito
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Garavito
Pedro Lé³pez 110 proven victims
Daniel Camargo 72
Pedro Rodrigues Filho 71
Kampatimar Shankariya 70
there is quite a long list of them.
add them up and its thousands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims
and thats the ones that are caught.
modern feminism made their work easier!!!
then there are the ones that are never caught
14. The Babysitter
13. The Moonlight Murderer
12. Jack the Stripper
11. Bible John
10. The Rainbow Maniac
9. The Grim Sleeper¹
8. The Zodiac Killer
7. Beer Man
6. The Doodler
5. Jack the Ripper
4. Axeman of New Orleans
3. The Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run
2. Servant Girl Annihilator
1. Charlie Chop-Off
two are common knowlege…
jack the ripper, and the zodiac…
so you dont have to put anything aside, you just have to know more and put that stuff in perspecttive of the rest of the world.
after all, socailism is responsible for over 200 million murdered and workd to death and the people that do that, make the law, so they dont get caught…
so which is the thing that is most scary?
gun man in a church
wacko with a knife
serial killer
or socialist government?
compared to the church, the church was nothing.
Here we go again. Another “mass murder” by a whacko with a gun. So guns are evil, and must be kept out of the hands of whackos. That is the logic of TSA, and at the cost of billions per year and a zillion wasted hours by air passengers in line, TSA managed to detect only 4% of guns and (fake explosives) placed thru screening in recent Federal tests.
And that is what’s coming from our always-caring, black-race loving President. Too bad Roof wasn’t a black who killed white “folks.” What would Barack Hussein have said then?
We will end up having to present a “therapist’s” attestation that we are not mentally ill before we can buy a gun (or, never mind guns, to buy the bullets; there is no Constitutional right to bear bullets).
So, we have a “kid” here who is described as 5′ 9″ tall and 120 lbs.
He’s been arrested this last April on a drug charge, and his father gave him a .45 caliber pistol in the same month for his birthday.
His high school acquaintances describe him as a regular and heavy drug user – apparently a prescription drug abuser.
He has a Facebook site – or did have before it was removed, which listed 80 something “friends”, 32 of whom are reported as being “black”. Whether any one of them was his actual friend and what their color is, is anyone’s guess.
Reuter’s reports that his uncle had this to say.
Reuters further reports that,
So the punk then goes to a church, spends an hour with a bible study group, and then begins the process of slaying 9 people, while pausing to reload his weapon – they say – 5 times.
Granted that a .45 is almost certainly to be a clip loaded weapon … but still, one would have hoped that they might have scattered and some been able to flee to safety or maybe even overwhelm him. On the other hand they may all have been in relatively poor health and unable to help themselves.
This is the story of a 120 lb, twerp with nothing going in his useless life but a drug addiction and a father who bizarrely gives him not a hunting rifle, but a .45 caliber pistol for his birthday. This “genius” then decides he wants to exterminate black people, he says, because they are destroying civilization and raping … so he goes among peaceful, apparently helpless, Christians in a church, joins them at a scriptural study, and then slaughters them.
His “mother” will not be giving interviews, we are informed.
I’ve noticed that in many of these mass shootings by young men that often they are slightly built and young looking. Perhaps our focus of mature looking athletes in high school leaves “normal” kids out of the status system.
Actually, Mr. Frank, they all take after Obamacare’s “Pajama boy”: small, slim dependent video-gaming critters that will never grow up to be men.
My first thought when I saw the two pictures of this kid was: mental illness. He is pretty much expressionless with a dead-eyed stare. The fact that he had a drug problem also reveals to me that he may have been high on drugs and hallucinating or just in a different place mentally when he went to the church.
Too bad people want to instantly jump to ‘racism’ when it is really just another, rare mass murder of a psycho whose victims just happened to be black.
Art…
Jack the Ripper was positively fingered — less than a year ago — by his DNA.
Even at the time Scotland Yard had him pegged — they just couldn’t PROVE that the maniac was the perp.
They sent him away — into a mental institution — for all his days.
Needless to say, all Jack the Ripper attacks promptly stopped.
I live here. Two coworkers lost family in the massacre. There was almost a surreal feeling at work today. The beast was NOT from the Charleston area — he was from up near Columbia.
I didn’t grow up here, but from what i see, there really isn’t much animosity on the part of whites towards blacks. Though I’m sure there is some, (someone organelle had papaw’s white hood hidden away in the attic), but it’s hidden. But for the most part, most people are NOT racist. Of course, my left wing friend from the bluest of states have started on on the ” what do you expect from the Jim Crow South” nonsense. How Jim Crow can out still be when the daughter of Indian immigrants is elected governor and a black man is elected to the Senate?
blert,
See this — Jack the Ripper: Scientist who claims to have identified notorious killer has ‘made serious DNA error’
K-E:
I agree that drugs were probably a huge factor here.
But his victims didn’t just “happen to be” black—any more than the victims in the Paris kosher deli “just happened” to be Jewish (remember, the Obama administration said that).
Those victims were targeted because they were in a kosher deli right before the sabbath, and therefore highly likely to be Jewish.
These victims were targeted because they were black. All evidence points to that.
The perp was identified by a citizen with a cell phone who alerted the Shelby Police: BREAKING: Tip from Kings Mountain florists led to Charleston shooting suspect’s arrest
Kind of like 9-11, no?
One of these centuries, someone will stand up to the Leftists’ slander of all of us after one of these horrific events, and say, “How DARE you slander all of us innocent folk for the deeds of one evil man?!? How DARE you!”
Because that’s what they do, every time (see Hussein’s remarks on the atrocity today, calculated to fan the flames of hatred as always).
But no one ever rebuts it that way. Those tarred with the sweeping brush hasten to defend themselves and their record of racial amity, etc., instead of pointing out what the Leftists are doing.
I also thought, How could this weedy little man get away with reloading FIVE times and continuing to kill? At the very least, people need to take self-defense courses. (I did before I moved to NYC.) With him determined to kill them all, and them outnumbering him, it does seem like a determined effort to swarm the bastard would have been effective and at least some of the lives saved.
I speak out of frustration: obviously I have zero idea of how paralyzed with fright one can be in such a terrible circumstance. Still, training could only help.
Yes, fear, and also age — the victims:
May they rest in peace.
Well said, art.
I still want to learn more about his family. With his history of drug use and his introversion, what on Earth possessed his father to give him a pistol? Did Dad think he was going to socialize at the gun range?
I see a problem of positioning. Roof, as stated in news articles, was sitting in the back of the church. The minister and eleven congregants were, and I’m guessing here, probably all sitting together in the front two pews all closest to the pulpit. More guessing here, but this is all I have to go on. If Roof was using the .45 that his father bought for him, which probably either had a 10 or 15 round magazine, then he most likely just laid down a wall of bullets; empty his gun, reload, empty again, reload, wash, rinse and repeat. While the church pews made piss-poor protection agains gunfire, they make excellent obstacles. If there was any significant distance between Roof and the congregants, and I’m guessing at least 40 feet, then rushing him would have been near impossible. Also keep in mind that Roof had both the element of surprise and ruthlessness on his side.
I guessing, and I’ll admit that I’m just an armchair amateur here doing a lot of second guessing, that there was no way to prevent or even mitigate what happened here. Maybe if one of the congregants had a gun, but then only if (s)he wasn’t incapacitated early in the shooting spree.
Sometimes evil wins even in the “if only”s.
KRB
Hot time in the ol’ town tonight.
How long until they find a way to blame some local Tea Party group, or at the very least, Sarah Palin?
I don’t know what kind of .45 he had, but the 1911 design usually has a 7 or 8 round magazine.
The race war they are counting on. If they stoke up enough insanity, then the rabid mad dog can infect everybody else. That’s how it works.
The race war the Democrat Byrd KKK senators wanted to see happen, but couldn’t in their life time. Their Democrat inheritors will do the job better.
I was basing that of my familiarity with Ruger pistols and the SR45 has a 10+1 round capacity and it’s also inexpensive.
KRB
Kae Arby:
I’ve heard different things about where the shooting happened. Many accounts read as though it was in the main part of the church, but others seem to indicate it happened in an adjacent room. And I saw a photo with no pews, just a table and chairs. I don’t know which is correct.
Here are some of the details:
It is mindboggling. He interacted face to face with the victims before the shooting, arguing about Scripture. Then he targeted the oldest first.
There is no other word than “evil.”
Speaking of church ladies, guns, and murderers check out Rachel Cooper (played by Lilian Gish) in Night of the Hunter, a truly scary movie, with Robert Mitchum as the very bad guy with Love and Hate tatooed on the knuckles of his hands.
It’s really remarkable how common it is in old movies for ordinary people to have guns for self defense. No one thought anything of it as late as the sixties. Where and why did the shift occur?
He shot old women praying in a church while talking about “black rape”.
If he was really so upset about it, then why didn’t he go after young male gangbangers in the hood?
Answer: Because he was a coward, and they would have capped his ass before he got his gun out.
rickl:
The shooter may indeed have been a coward, but that’s not why he chose the victims he chose, IMHO.
I have felt from the start that his motive was to inflame a race war. To do so, killing a few gang members wouldn’t do (and yes, they would have probably been armed and would have shot back—he couldn’t have that!)
But why did he choose the particular victims he did? He could have gone anywhere in the black community and started killing people. He chose these people for the following reasons, in my opinion:
(1) He may have known—and admired—the work of the killers in the KKK who bombed the church in Birmingham in 1963 and killed the 4 little girls. He may have chosen a church for historical reasons, therefore.
(2) Much more importantly, I think, he targeted the most admirable people he could find. People devoted to God, to peace, to love, people everyone admired and loved, in order to sow the most possible fear and outrage at their deaths. Evil unerringly seeks the good and the innocent to try to wreak the most destructive power.
DNW Says: Granted that a .45 is almost certainly to be a clip loaded weapon … but still, one would have hoped that they might have scattered and some been able to flee to safety or maybe even overwhelm him
no.. its not a “clip” its a magazine..
the term clip came from WWII where the m1 garand used a clip.. ie. the cartridges were clipped together for loading into the rifle. Clips have no springs
the .45 semi automatic pistol has a magazine. spring loaded that pushes cartridges into the gun. the bullet is the metal jacketed lead thing that comes out… the jacketing is not to make them more or less lethal, its to keep the bullet from changing shape as the force today is so great from firing the lead would change shape and not fly straight… however, full metal jacket ammo in the military is used to prevent deformation, and so, allows the bullet to keep traveling (but less damage to the person). and why hollow points and such are not legal in the military while its ok for cops to use them. there are also designs that fragment and some that can explode..
we do not know what he used, and there are .45 caliber revolvers.. though given he was said to reload 5 times, a magazine is more likely as it was not reported he got a speed loader with his present…
the parents that gave that to him were hoping it would “wake him up”… which is very common among parents, and troubled kids… they try to do something nice or something that may motivate them positively, and guns and cars and cell phones, pets, and so on does that because they require responsibility…and so the hope is that with something treasured they would learn responsibility and all that. again, not uncommon, whats uncommon is that it backfires this badly…
And I saw a photo with no pews, just a table and chairs. I don’t know which is correct.
this is probably the correct thing as bible study is never in the pews… while our imagination from movies is that everything happens in the pews…
bible study is usually in a plain room at a table.. often such rooms only have one exit, which the gunman probably blocks, so there is no escape.
people in the majority freeze… so they will just stand there… the kid that “survived” by playing dead, did not survive by playing dead, the gunman did not want to shoot them. in a 10×10 room and one shooter, he knows who he shot and who he didnt shoot… in a war with many gunman near a pit of people being shot, like germany did, the shooters dont know who shot whom, and so pretending to be dead will work.
so its bs and so forth about that point, but since its from the movies, and the child probably laid and froze (the common behavior of children of animals in bad situations), this is the narrative..
the sad part is that this has nothing to do with guns it has everythign to do with disenfranchising groups, fomenting friction, playing favorites unjustly, etc.
white males are being attacked from all sides.
while more mature can take it in stride, and so on, and its part of life, its not the same with someone like this. they see a group getting freebies and such, they see the crime they see that this does not affect the affirmative action and freebies, and they are put upon by teachers, feminists, tv making them to be idiots and on and on it goes.
so a percentage of them snap… they snap in different ways.. and we mostly only pay attention to the ones that do something rare and extreme, and ignore the suicides, and so on.
the point of these things the left does is this not the benefits… your sold on the benefits real or claimed, but are told to ignore the other stuff.
so when a kid whose busting his hump or believes they are finds out that someone who didnt do so gets a free ride in… then what? then they watch tv and see that no one likes them, then what? then they read the politico stuff in school and the young girls want nothing to do with them cause they are whilte male oppressors… then what?
richard the III theme comes in..
if they be blamed for the crime they dont do, they feel they might as well do the thing they are being punished for… that work and achievement is not a way to be famous and known, but doing something horrid can be…
right now i can name a bunch of names we all know by heart… and not because they did something good… in fact, people will know them more than the founding fathers, and other greats..
Chapman…
Ramirez
Kulklinsky
Klebold
Sirhan Sirhan
Billy the Kid
Guevara
some are now heroes… like Che
sad, predictable, and having nothing to do with guns… it has to do with WILL… the will to act.. without that, all the guns in the world wont matter.. just ask iraqi soldiers who throw their guns down and run like the french… and taking away guns wont stop someone who has will.. every kitchen has enough items in it to make nasty things… but those require more knowlege or thievery…
sad any way you look at it
but the liberals who went to college wont look at it in any real way, they dont live in the real world, they live in the world as it was taught to them.. whuich is why so much of what they invent to do doesnt work, and why they are not theones that lead in product creation, stock investing etc… all those things require real world knowlege about the real world and its actions. and these people think inanimate objects are magically scary… like guns… ooh… oh… like 6 year old school children in 45 year old bodies looking at things… the things are embued with qualities the things dont actually have.
Effen eh, thank you so much …
On hitting the “submit” button, I strongly suspected someone would probably make a point of it; but didn’t feel it was worth the bother of immediately posting a footnote.
Most people who actually shoot a lot would shrug it off. What’s the point of such pedantry in this context?
But I used, and left, the term “clip” because it is an extremely common if technically erroneous way, often seen, of referring to the ability of a hand held weapon to be reloaded almost instantly.
I could have said “removable magazine” I suppose. Because though all semi-auto pistols I have seen have magazines of some kind, not all magazines are removable.
And as you seemed to realize half way through your little disquisition, not all pistols chambered for the .45 ACP are are box magazine fitted and recoil or blowback operated semi-autos. And apart from any issue of cylindrical speed loaders for the modern .45 ACP revolver, there is the clip loaded 1917 .45 ACP revolver.
But I think we have all been assuming he had a 1911 style pistol and not a Ruger Vaquero (which I just now looked up to confirm) or 1917 revolver?
So, yes, you do in fact drop the magazine on any semi-auto .45 I have seen or shot, mostly 1911s, and replace it with another fresh magazine when speed loading.
And yes, of course, usually one does not reload a box magazine with a clip, unless the weapon has a charger bridge or some other enabling feature mostly found on rifles like the SMLE rifle; or is famously like the Mauser 1896: a box magazine semi-auto pistol loaded with a “clip”. I doubt though anyone imagines he was armed with a rare Chinese broom handle in .45 ACP?
And as you seem to be trying to cover the bases, you do seem to tacitly acknowledge the 1917 .45 ACP revolvers used “clips” nonetheless.
That said, I am sure that it’s your thousands of hours in the deep woods chasing game, and your many hours spent at the shooting range and remodeling surplus military arms into useable hunting weapons, that has have left you with this practically gained information you are so anxious to share.
Happy hunting Art.
Salon: ‘White America Must Answer For’ Charleston Church Massacre
Really?
I wonder what THEIR answer is for the massacre, considering 99% of Salon are white. Or do they just mean conservatives?
It’s stuff like this that turns me to talk radio
Frog Says:
“Here we go again. Another “mass murder” by a whacko with a gun. So guns are evil, and must be kept out of the hands of whackos.”
Scratch wacko; they’re going with racist. Black lives matter / open season… et cetera… secondary narrative to guns cause cause violence. twofur
@ Rae: The headline is mostly just bait for people to click on. And the writer of the article exposes the idiocy within his head – it’s Salon. Salon is filled with people who think white people are the bane of America, and (somewhat) secretly only think humanity should be celebrated when their social “progressive” policies are passed.