Ahh but American Jews are first and foremost leftists and Democrats before they are Jews….they’ve shown that time and again over the past 7 years.
physicsguy, 6:05 pm —
. . . over the past *seventy* years, from what I’ve seen.
Glick:
“Some commentators have characterized the fight over the deal as a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party. This may be the case. But first and foremost, it is a fight over whether or not Jews in America have the same rights as all other Americans.”
That last word: “Americans” has to be stricken. It should read “Democrats.”
This will only be resolved hand-to-hand combat in the Synagogues ….
Not a Jew, and only know a few Jews, but based on past performance, its difficult for me to imagine a scenario or series of events, that would make a large majority of American Jews decide to abandon the democrats. Obama could attend a barbecue of Jewish infants in Tehran, dutifully reported by the msm, and leftists, including American Jews, would remain loyal. Kool-aid is the most addictive drug in the galaxy.
talk about cognitive dissonance I heard Alan Derswitcz (sp) with out even the slightest break in stride discuss the “bad” iranian treaty on Max TV say
“I voted for him twice in 08 & 12”
Total proof that this professor is *not too bright* &
obviously not near as intelligent as those of us posting here.
NOTE:
“Jews” includes a huge proportion of secular Jews who are Jews by birth only.
I am by birth (an agnostic) son of Western Civilization, I can not begin to comprehend how anyone born in such beneficial circumstances could betray the flawed beauty of the most fair minded ideals to ever blossom on this planet.
Parker, they don t teach *it* that way anymore.
They teach them now to despise those ideals !
Wonderful. Fantasy. I wish that were true. I wish that was the idea, and heading. I think you have a better chance getting them to change parties. How odd though? To surrender so fully to people who seem so obviously hateful to a people. Then again, it is strongly suggested that they voted for Hitler en masse. Just as blacks vote Dem. The actual data seems sealed. Which is very odd. Suspect at the very least. I wonder, in time, if their vote for the Dem party will be sealed?
I do wish you luck in getting them moving in the correct direction. I just don’t see it happening.
Neo said:
““Jews” includes a huge proportion of secular Jews who are Jews by birth only.”
Yes indeed. In a country like ours where Jews are just plain old white people it can be confusing who is a Jew and who is not. The problem is that even though most gentiles in our country don’t care a hoot about their ancestry, many secular Jews still self identify as Jews and care a great deal about it. It seems to be hard for them to give up their self image of themselves as persecuted outsiders and to accept that Jews in America are thoroughly entrenched among our country’s ruling elite. The stories of persecution which have been passed down from one generation to the next generation are still potent.
Perhaps one reason so many secular Jews are leftists is because they have given up the religious beliefs which defined their ancestors need a new ideology to guide them which appeals to outsiders like themselves. When people who are among the ruling class still identify themselves as outsiders that can be very destructive since they are often not able to defend the status quo properly because they are insecure. That insecurity makes it easy for the enemy to attack them psychologically and to undermine their resolve to resist. An example of how the enemy attacks people psychologically is playing out right now in the person of Chuck Schumer. He is apparently under tremendous psychological pressure from the left because he has done the right thing and opposes the Iranian Nuclear Deal.
I have to wonder what you mean, Neo, by “Jewish by birth only.” Do you mean non-religious? Secular Jews are just as Jewish as religious Jews.
Susan:
Secular Jews are Jews by Jewish law if and only if their mothers are Jewish. But I am not speaking of Jewish law, which is irrelevant to how Jews vote in the US. I’m speaking of understanding the word “Jewish” as it describes a voting bloc.
As I wrote in another thread, calling everyone with a Jewish mother a Jew for political purposes and wondering why they support policies that don’t favor Israel makes no sense to me. Once Jews have renounced all but their secular Jewish identity, why should they have any special relationship with Israel? Many don’t. Many are only too eager to renounce Israel.
Doom:
You write:
Then again, it is strongly suggested that they voted for Hitler en masse. Just as blacks vote Dem. The actual data seems sealed. Which is very odd.
I strongly suggest you stop hanging around neo-Nazi sites. Because they’re the only ones “strongly suggesting” what you wrote there.
Nor is “the actual data” “sealed.” Germany in the 1930s did not do exit polls based on religion. There is no data that tells anything about the Jewish vote in Germany per se. What there is has to be extrapolated from the number of votes for each district, and that really tells nothing since Jews were such a small percentage of voters in Germany, and they weren’t concentrated in one or two places in each city.
In addition, there have been many books and articles on the subject of who voted for Germany in 1932, before Hitler was appointed Chancellor. They indicate that his support was strongest in Protestant areas rather than Catholic ones, and rural areas rather than cities (there were almost no Jews in rural Germany; they were almost entirely in the cities, and not so many of them were in the cities, either).
Later votes were under threat of violence and great duress, and only Nazis were allowed on the ballot. Hardly tells us much of anything. By 1935 the Jews had been disenfranchised anyway.
The part in Glick’s article about MEMRI and how there is evidence that Obama had already given the go-ahead to Iran to do what they needed to make a bomb, four years ago – is horrifying. The entire article, including his treatment of Schumer makes me very angry — beyond angry. Obama is “skilled” as Glick states, and actually seems really evil to me (again) in reading the way he maneuvers. He is just really good at getting his poison through and will stoop low to do it. Maybe he is holding Hillary’s feet to the fire now… I don’t mean to overstate but really he is on the side of evil here.
It would appear that he has always been on the side of evil. It appears to be required in Chicago politics
God bless Caroline Glick. One can only hope that some pro-Israel American Jews — both secular and observant – – will heed her and act.
For a group of people that is so disproportionately intelligent, perceptive, creative, productive, caring and influential, they can sometimes have a hard time seeing the wolf at their door. I understand that there are many “secular” American Jews – – I know many- – but most of them share a culture that is at least somewhat in common with that of observant Jews, and I don’t know any who are hostile, or even indifferent to Israel. To the contrary, it is (quite rightly) a source of pride. I want to believe there is an awful lot of soul searching going on out there; a lot of doubt about where the democrats have taken us and where they want to take us (and Israel). I cannot believe that they don’t care about the survival of Israel.
There are prominent , articulate & intelligent Jews on the right. Mark Levin, (I ve learned alot from him,) David Horowitz (I appreciate his honesty) Dennis Prager (my imaginary rabbi) & in show biz the sadly deceased Ron Silver (converted from the Left after 9/11) elderly stand up comic Jackie Mason, who I never cared for UNTIL I actually listened to what he was saying, I m sure he s retired now. Michael Savage & Joan Rivers, David Mahmet, Pamela Gellar, come to mind as well.
So it is not actually all Jews per se that are so radically Left, most are pure & simply *leftists* just as there are Leftist Catholics, Protestants, agnostics
Leftist Evangelical Protestants. (Recall Saddleback Church were Obama spoke & lied BTW !)
I believe Rick Warren is a Left leaning preacher.
So it is not actually all Jews per se that are so radically Left, most are pure & simply *leftists* just as there are Leftist Catholics, Protestants, agnostics
German Jewish surnamesJews are over represented amongst advocates of the – as Steyn calls it – “christenrein”.
It is time that someone should call them out. They have become the very people and hold the very mentality that persecuted their ancestors. It´s a self-hate virus that needs to be isolated and treated. It is only a significant percentage of those with German Jewish surnames – the Seculars – and it infects the reputation of Jews at large. It must be called out and cleaned up. …
I repeat my earlier post: always ignored … US Jewish donors account for about 60% of the Democ.rats’ funding ….
They.are.the.enemy.within ….
You are who you vote for ….
Here’s another article (from 2005) it would behoove us all to read. Short and hair-raising:
“Nixon aides went to prison for viewing the contents of a handful of FBI files. Clinton staffers pawed through hundreds. Evidence suggests that the First Lady may have initiated and/or orchestrated file invasions. Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon got caught leaking Linda Tripp’s personnel file.”
“Abuses [were] far more extensive under Clinton, from the White House ordering the FBI to put out a press release accusing the innocent Billy Dale of crimes, to the IRS audits of dozens of conservative organizations.”
“Nixon’s assertion of Executive Privilege led to charges of an “Imperial Presidency,” but Clinton trumps Nixon on this one. First, Clinton asserted an attorney-client privilege to prevent government lawyers from handing over notes made in meetings with Hillary. Then Clinton fought for two years all the way to the Supreme Court (where he lost 9-0) to claim he was immune from the Paula Jones civil lawsuit. At one point, Clinton’s lawyers even claimed that as Commander-in-Chief, Clinton was on ‘active military duty’ and could not be sued.”
“But there’s more to compare and contrast. . . .”
The 1976 book by Victor Lasky (a must-read) lays out the damning case against all the Democrat presidents from FDR on, and their flagrant abuses of presidential power, illegal persecutions of their political opponents, weaponizing of the IRS, collaborations with “out-Communists,” etc., etc., ad nauseum.
The sewer has only gotten deeper since. Obama is vicious and ruthless, with a very slick and plausible demeanor hiding his menace. Our “compatriots” are fools, blackguards, or comatose. And we’re in very deep trouble.
Oops: Lasky’s book: It Didn’t Start with Watergate, a must-read for every American who still is one….
American Jews fateful hour was during the Holocaust and a woefully failed.
It should be a surprise to no one that their grandparents who ignored the Holocaust grandchildren and great grandchildren that are even less Jewish .
The only saving grace for American Jewry is the rapidly growing segment of survivors/refugees whose children, grandchildren etc didn’t assimilate and are actively Jewish unlike the fiddler generation
Avi:
There were plenty of American Jews who certainly did not ignore the Holocaust. See this.
This piece: Bibi’s Cannon Fodder.
The chasm with my p.o.w. is staggering…. Eventually something will have to give and it won’t be me.
That appears to have been a strategic decision of Wise’s that he thought would help the war effort, not self-hatred as you suggest.
If your point is that Wise did not always make wise decisions, no one ever said he did. But my point (and the link I offered) is that a lot of things were tried by Jews in America to help the Jewish people in Europe. That many of the efforts failed doesn’t make the leadership “self-hating.” They were up against a lot, including the US government and also US immigration policies.
Many individual Jews in the US sponsored as many refugees as they could, by the way. But many were stymied by financial considerations and rules about how many could be let in (very few). But that was another way in which Jews here tried to help Jews there.
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Ahh but American Jews are first and foremost leftists and Democrats before they are Jews….they’ve shown that time and again over the past 7 years.
physicsguy, 6:05 pm —
. . . over the past *seventy* years, from what I’ve seen.
Glick:
“Some commentators have characterized the fight over the deal as a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party. This may be the case. But first and foremost, it is a fight over whether or not Jews in America have the same rights as all other Americans.”
That last word: “Americans” has to be stricken. It should read “Democrats.”
For Republicans already don’t have equal rights.
Just ask Lois Lerner.
US Jewish donors account for about 60% of the Democ.rats’ funding ….
You are how you vote and money talks.
This will only be resolved hand-to-hand combat in the Synagogues ….
Not a Jew, and only know a few Jews, but based on past performance, its difficult for me to imagine a scenario or series of events, that would make a large majority of American Jews decide to abandon the democrats. Obama could attend a barbecue of Jewish infants in Tehran, dutifully reported by the msm, and leftists, including American Jews, would remain loyal. Kool-aid is the most addictive drug in the galaxy.
Hugh Hewitt interview with Jeb Bush 8-14-15
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/08/hugh-hewitt-interview-with-jeb-bush-8.html
talk about cognitive dissonance I heard Alan Derswitcz (sp) with out even the slightest break in stride discuss the “bad” iranian treaty on Max TV say
“I voted for him twice in 08 & 12”
Total proof that this professor is *not too bright* &
obviously not near as intelligent as those of us posting here.
NOTE:
“Jews” includes a huge proportion of secular Jews who are Jews by birth only.
I am by birth (an agnostic) son of Western Civilization, I can not begin to comprehend how anyone born in such beneficial circumstances could betray the flawed beauty of the most fair minded ideals to ever blossom on this planet.
Parker, they don t teach *it* that way anymore.
They teach them now to despise those ideals !
Wonderful. Fantasy. I wish that were true. I wish that was the idea, and heading. I think you have a better chance getting them to change parties. How odd though? To surrender so fully to people who seem so obviously hateful to a people. Then again, it is strongly suggested that they voted for Hitler en masse. Just as blacks vote Dem. The actual data seems sealed. Which is very odd. Suspect at the very least. I wonder, in time, if their vote for the Dem party will be sealed?
I do wish you luck in getting them moving in the correct direction. I just don’t see it happening.
Neo said:
““Jews” includes a huge proportion of secular Jews who are Jews by birth only.”
Yes indeed. In a country like ours where Jews are just plain old white people it can be confusing who is a Jew and who is not. The problem is that even though most gentiles in our country don’t care a hoot about their ancestry, many secular Jews still self identify as Jews and care a great deal about it. It seems to be hard for them to give up their self image of themselves as persecuted outsiders and to accept that Jews in America are thoroughly entrenched among our country’s ruling elite. The stories of persecution which have been passed down from one generation to the next generation are still potent.
Perhaps one reason so many secular Jews are leftists is because they have given up the religious beliefs which defined their ancestors need a new ideology to guide them which appeals to outsiders like themselves. When people who are among the ruling class still identify themselves as outsiders that can be very destructive since they are often not able to defend the status quo properly because they are insecure. That insecurity makes it easy for the enemy to attack them psychologically and to undermine their resolve to resist. An example of how the enemy attacks people psychologically is playing out right now in the person of Chuck Schumer. He is apparently under tremendous psychological pressure from the left because he has done the right thing and opposes the Iranian Nuclear Deal.
I have to wonder what you mean, Neo, by “Jewish by birth only.” Do you mean non-religious? Secular Jews are just as Jewish as religious Jews.
Susan:
Secular Jews are Jews by Jewish law if and only if their mothers are Jewish. But I am not speaking of Jewish law, which is irrelevant to how Jews vote in the US. I’m speaking of understanding the word “Jewish” as it describes a voting bloc.
As I wrote in another thread, calling everyone with a Jewish mother a Jew for political purposes and wondering why they support policies that don’t favor Israel makes no sense to me. Once Jews have renounced all but their secular Jewish identity, why should they have any special relationship with Israel? Many don’t. Many are only too eager to renounce Israel.
Doom:
You write:
I strongly suggest you stop hanging around neo-Nazi sites. Because they’re the only ones “strongly suggesting” what you wrote there.
Nor is “the actual data” “sealed.” Germany in the 1930s did not do exit polls based on religion. There is no data that tells anything about the Jewish vote in Germany per se. What there is has to be extrapolated from the number of votes for each district, and that really tells nothing since Jews were such a small percentage of voters in Germany, and they weren’t concentrated in one or two places in each city.
In addition, there have been many books and articles on the subject of who voted for Germany in 1932, before Hitler was appointed Chancellor. They indicate that his support was strongest in Protestant areas rather than Catholic ones, and rural areas rather than cities (there were almost no Jews in rural Germany; they were almost entirely in the cities, and not so many of them were in the cities, either).
Later votes were under threat of violence and great duress, and only Nazis were allowed on the ballot. Hardly tells us much of anything. By 1935 the Jews had been disenfranchised anyway.
See this for some of these patterns.
The part in Glick’s article about MEMRI and how there is evidence that Obama had already given the go-ahead to Iran to do what they needed to make a bomb, four years ago – is horrifying. The entire article, including his treatment of Schumer makes me very angry — beyond angry. Obama is “skilled” as Glick states, and actually seems really evil to me (again) in reading the way he maneuvers. He is just really good at getting his poison through and will stoop low to do it. Maybe he is holding Hillary’s feet to the fire now… I don’t mean to overstate but really he is on the side of evil here.
It would appear that he has always been on the side of evil. It appears to be required in Chicago politics
God bless Caroline Glick. One can only hope that some pro-Israel American Jews — both secular and observant – – will heed her and act.
For a group of people that is so disproportionately intelligent, perceptive, creative, productive, caring and influential, they can sometimes have a hard time seeing the wolf at their door. I understand that there are many “secular” American Jews – – I know many- – but most of them share a culture that is at least somewhat in common with that of observant Jews, and I don’t know any who are hostile, or even indifferent to Israel. To the contrary, it is (quite rightly) a source of pride. I want to believe there is an awful lot of soul searching going on out there; a lot of doubt about where the democrats have taken us and where they want to take us (and Israel). I cannot believe that they don’t care about the survival of Israel.
There are prominent , articulate & intelligent Jews on the right. Mark Levin, (I ve learned alot from him,) David Horowitz (I appreciate his honesty) Dennis Prager (my imaginary rabbi) & in show biz the sadly deceased Ron Silver (converted from the Left after 9/11) elderly stand up comic Jackie Mason, who I never cared for UNTIL I actually listened to what he was saying, I m sure he s retired now. Michael Savage & Joan Rivers, David Mahmet, Pamela Gellar, come to mind as well.
So it is not actually all Jews per se that are so radically Left, most are pure & simply *leftists* just as there are Leftist Catholics, Protestants, agnostics
Leftist Evangelical Protestants. (Recall Saddleback Church were Obama spoke & lied BTW !)
I believe Rick Warren is a Left leaning preacher.
So it is not actually all Jews per se that are so radically Left, most are pure & simply *leftists* just as there are Leftist Catholics, Protestants, agnostics
German Jewish surnamesJews are over represented amongst advocates of the – as Steyn calls it – “christenrein”.
It is time that someone should call them out. They have become the very people and hold the very mentality that persecuted their ancestors. It´s a self-hate virus that needs to be isolated and treated. It is only a significant percentage of those with German Jewish surnames – the Seculars – and it infects the reputation of Jews at large. It must be called out and cleaned up. …
I repeat my earlier post: always ignored …
US Jewish donors account for about 60% of the Democ.rats’ funding ….
They.are.the.enemy.within ….
You are who you vote for ….
Here’s another article (from 2005) it would behoove us all to read. Short and hair-raising:
http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/it-didnt-start-or-end-with-watergate/
Sample:
“Nixon aides went to prison for viewing the contents of a handful of FBI files. Clinton staffers pawed through hundreds. Evidence suggests that the First Lady may have initiated and/or orchestrated file invasions. Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon got caught leaking Linda Tripp’s personnel file.”
“Abuses [were] far more extensive under Clinton, from the White House ordering the FBI to put out a press release accusing the innocent Billy Dale of crimes, to the IRS audits of dozens of conservative organizations.”
“Nixon’s assertion of Executive Privilege led to charges of an “Imperial Presidency,” but Clinton trumps Nixon on this one. First, Clinton asserted an attorney-client privilege to prevent government lawyers from handing over notes made in meetings with Hillary. Then Clinton fought for two years all the way to the Supreme Court (where he lost 9-0) to claim he was immune from the Paula Jones civil lawsuit. At one point, Clinton’s lawyers even claimed that as Commander-in-Chief, Clinton was on ‘active military duty’ and could not be sued.”
“But there’s more to compare and contrast. . . .”
The 1976 book by Victor Lasky (a must-read) lays out the damning case against all the Democrat presidents from FDR on, and their flagrant abuses of presidential power, illegal persecutions of their political opponents, weaponizing of the IRS, collaborations with “out-Communists,” etc., etc., ad nauseum.
The sewer has only gotten deeper since. Obama is vicious and ruthless, with a very slick and plausible demeanor hiding his menace. Our “compatriots” are fools, blackguards, or comatose. And we’re in very deep trouble.
Oops: Lasky’s book: It Didn’t Start with Watergate, a must-read for every American who still is one….
http://www.openisbn.com/isbn/0803738579/
American Jews fateful hour was during the Holocaust and a woefully failed.
It should be a surprise to no one that their grandparents who ignored the Holocaust grandchildren and great grandchildren that are even less Jewish .
The only saving grace for American Jewry is the rapidly growing segment of survivors/refugees whose children, grandchildren etc didn’t assimilate and are actively Jewish unlike the fiddler generation
Avi:
There were plenty of American Jews who certainly did not ignore the Holocaust. See this.
This piece:
Bibi’s Cannon Fodder.
The chasm with my p.o.w. is staggering…. Eventually something will have to give and it won’t be me.
As to the piece Néo references above, it is a bit too sanitized. Wise and cohorts aggressively sabotaged all attempts to help the European Jewry …
… Strict orders were given to World Jewish Congress representatives in Europe to halt forthwith any shipment of packages to the ghettos, despite the fact that these packages did usually reach their destination, the Jewish Self-Help Association in Warsaw. ‘All these operations with and through Poland must cease at once,’ Wise cabled to Congress delegates in London and Geneva, ‘and at once in English means AT ONCE, not in the future.'”[15]
Self-hatred is of the utmost importance with that crowd.
G6loq:
That appears to have been a strategic decision of Wise’s that he thought would help the war effort, not self-hatred as you suggest.
If your point is that Wise did not always make wise decisions, no one ever said he did. But my point (and the link I offered) is that a lot of things were tried by Jews in America to help the Jewish people in Europe. That many of the efforts failed doesn’t make the leadership “self-hating.” They were up against a lot, including the US government and also US immigration policies.
Many individual Jews in the US sponsored as many refugees as they could, by the way. But many were stymied by financial considerations and rules about how many could be let in (very few). But that was another way in which Jews here tried to help Jews there.