Another French train attack hero named…
…although this one was less successful, because he rushed towards the shooter before the gun jammed.
I had wondered about the identity of the man on the train who was reported to have been shot in the neck, and here’s the information:
Mark Moogalian, who is reportedly a 51-year-old academic originally from Midlothian, Virginia, spotted a suspicious passenger while traveling on the Amsterdam to Paris train Friday…
“My husband told me that he had seen someone strange because he had entered the toilets with his suitcase and it lasted a long time,” Moogalian’s wife Isabelle told Europe1 radio Monday. “A little while later the guy came out and that’s when he saw that the guy was carrying a gun.”
Isabelle Moogalian, who was also aboard the train, said her husband spotted the gunman “being grabbed from behind by a different person” ”” thought to be a 29-year-old French banker who has chosen to stay anonymous.
Mark Moogalian told his wife to “go” and then “rushed towards the gunman to remove … the Kalashnikov.”
She added: “I did not see my husband get shot, it happened too quickly and I was pretty much hiding behind seats. But I look at my husband through the seats at an angle and he looked straight at me and said, ‘I’m hit!’ … There was blood everywhere. I ran towards him and I could see that he a wound on his back, I then saw another wound by his neck.”
That explains that.
It also highlights the reality that rushing a gunman is very very dangerous, a fact somewhat obscured in the story of the three younger American heroes because they were fortunate enough (although they didn’t know it at the time) to be rushing a man whose several firearms had either jammed or become inoperative because of magazine trouble. But the terrorist still had a knife and/or box cutter, and managed to do quite a bit of damage with it to Spencer Stone before he was through.
Isabelle Moogalian further explained the Stone was a versatile hero, saving her husband’s life into the bargain despite his own injuries:
“He put his finger on my husband’s neck wound to stop the hemorrhaging continuing and he stayed in this position during the whole voyage,” she told Europe1.
And on the gunman:
She added: “It surprised me how long time-wise it took these two, even three people to neutralize him. It was unbelievable. He had a lot of strength for a guy his size.”
Moogalian is still in a French hospital and as far as I know is expected to recover.
A little side story on this issue. I could identify with that last part of the story because at the age of around forty my then-husband helped subdue an unruly and violent airplane passenger (not a terrorist, who was not armed with a gun) on an airplane flying between San Francisco and Los Angeles. This occurred considerably before 9/11, and I was fortunate enough to not be on the plane, but a drug-crazed passenger had tried to strangle or perhaps stab a stewardess and several passengers including my husband rushed towards him and held him down in the aisle while he fought them off.
My husband later reported that it had been astoundingly difficult even for two or three of them to subdue the guy, whom he said was probably high on something like meth and seemed to have superhuman strength. There were no restraints available on the plane, but they used someone’s belt and also held him down forcibly while he struggled against them for the rest of the flight, including of course the landing, which they prayed wasn’t going to be rough because obviously not only were none of them strapped into their seats but they weren’t even in their seats.
We got four free tickets from that airline out of the deal, by the way, rather than the Legion of Honor. But the flights were nice; we took a trip with my husband’s brother and his wife.
Good story all around. Funny, that Mr Moogalian was lost in the noise; and the unknown Frenchman was never mentioned. I wonder if the Frenchman was not effective in deterring the shooter.
I commented in the thread below about the difference between herds and packs. Clearly, your husband fit into the pack mentality, Neo. Good for him.
He’s not mentioned because he would be dead soon.
Oldflyer:
To tell you the truth, I think my husband would have done the same even if it was just him alone at the beginning. He never had any military training, but he was and is the sort of person who tends on the whole to intervene rather than sit idly by.
I think part of it is temperament. I’m glad there was a pack there, though!
“My husband later reported that it had been astoundingly difficult even for two or three of them to subdue the guy” neo
What a perfect explanation for ‘police brutality’. Rogue cops aside, police don’t ‘brutalize’ law abiding, cooperative, authority respecting citizens.
police don’t ‘brutalize’ law abiding, cooperative, authority respecting citizens.
Police in cities aren’t rogue, they’re just corrupt. And that accounts for most of the LEO forces one way or another.
Sheer incompetence and cowardice, explains the other numbers of incidents.
Many them are under Authority and told to abuse the civilians, because that’s what they are paid to do by their Bosses. National Park Service Obeyed their Orders, of course. So will the rest. The ones that refuse to, are eliminated in house by the LEOs using accidents or paperwork, the rest just quit.
My husband later reported that it had been astoundingly difficult even for two or three of them to subdue the guy
Humans can turn off certain muscle limitations via drugs or state of mind switches. They appear super human, but they are merely boosted slightly above the norm. Their pain thresholds increase and their muscle capacity can achieve 100% of base ability, rather than the stunted 70-90% most people go through with in life. However, human weaknesses still apply to them. They cannot apply leverage with their muscles if the bones are broken in half, nor can they apply muscular force through limbs if the limbs are shattered in the neural or joint connective tissues. Their brain also needs oxygen in order to command the body, so cutting off the oxygen or ex sanguinating the body, achieves effective termination.
Because unions don’t like having individual deciders in the LEO force, they prefer swarm tactics of minions and zombie hordes, where they just get 5 people and sit on the suspect. However if the suspect is not in elevated adrenaline conditions or is being crushed by gravity, they automatically terminate due to a number of conditions. Gravity crushes them. Their internal organs rupture. 200-400 pounds multiplied by 5-15 people does that to people.
3 people that try to not harm someone can do little, if their willpower or skills are insufficient against humans maximized. 3 people trained to use their body weight to sit on a person’s wind pipe, achieves complete termination in a few minutes. It merely requires a lot of people, a lot of weight, a lot of weight, or something of that sort.
It looks completely passive. Nothing happens. Nothing is allowed to happen when gravity crushes you.
This story could have turned out so much different than it did.
Kudos to all the heroes that day; even if they don’t get named or received medals.
It seems to me that she used the term neutralize, when she probably had better said, “subdue”.
They got they AK and the pistol away from him early on it seems. Why, being military men they could not have manually cycled the action and cleared it well enough to let off one round at least, I don’t know.
My guess is that if they were only focused on neutralizing him, they could have unjammed the gun; and while one partly pinned him, the other have put a round through his head from an inch or two away.
But you can’t “fair fight” a completely uninhibited feral animal and not expect to receive some real damage. Thank God those boys were able to come out of it as well as they did.
Apparently they did not think it was necessary to put him down permanently.
Anyone who has come out way on top of a fight where there are witnesses, even when it was provoked, will tell you that contrary to the image of bystanders shouting for you to finish him off, they will be screaming for you not to hurt him anymore. Immediately the aggressor becomes helpless and vulnerable, some mechanism kicks in among middle class people at least.
What gangs do to victims is another matter.
Of course, I was not there, and it’s one thing to walk up to a crippled and helpless whitetail and place one in its neck, and quite and entirely another to do the same to an apparently “deranged” human being who seems less powerful, and thus more vulnerable and even pitiable, than mere moments before.
Maybe they were afraid of ricochets.
“They got the AK …”
It is interesting that the people who who became involved were all men.
“Police in cities aren’t rogue, they’re just corrupt. And that accounts for most of the LEO forces one way or another.” Ymarsakar
Blanket categorizations are rarely accurate. Simplistic certainties are often the province of the mentally lazy.
Simplistic certainties are often the province of the mentally lazy.
Here, a mentally lazy cops in the provinces:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cDy3tUy4Io
Lazy enough?
G6loq,
We’re all familiar with corrupt cops acting criminally under the color of authority. They compose a minor percentage of cops.
I’m simply taking umbrage at the assertion that the great majority of cops are corrupt. With the claim that corruption is the norm among cops.
I’m simply taking umbrage at the assertion that the great majority of cops are corrupt. With the claim that corruption is the norm among cops.
Google! I have bookmarked hundred of nasty cop videos. Easy to find.
You’ll realize they easily take umbrage and … act.
Wether bad cops are a majority or not … that is a detail at this point.
I am a Constitutionalist ….
Hollande gave out 8 medals today.
One recipient is the head coachman. He pulled the alarm cord and called police and that is it ….
You can imagine the tenor of comments at the various news sites and blogs.
Mark Moogalian will be hounded by the islamists.
The 28 years old Frenchman who was the first to fight remained unnamed. He might have to forgo his award if his name cannot be published.
“I have bookmarked hundred of nasty cop videos. Easy to find…Wether bad cops are a majority or not … that is a detail at this point. I am a Constitutionalist ….” G6loq
“In 2008, [US] local police departments had about 593,000 full-time employees, including 461,000 sworn officers”
Hundreds of bad cops out of a pop. of 461,000 is a miniscule percentage. Since my objection is to the assertion that all or the vast majority of cops are corrupt, whether bad cops are a majority is indeed the point. Pretty much all of us here are constitutionalists, which is irrelevant to whether the majority of cops are corrupt.
Maggie,
Its not interesting, it is what it is. Men, real men and not in a macho sense, if they are raised with a mother and a father with a sense of understanding what is the role of a man in a sane society, know the prime duty of a man is to protect women and children at any cost. That is all you need to know why it was men, not women, who subdued the jihad loon piece of human offal.
When society subverts this simple fact of human nature the cohesion of society suffers and the barbarians rape the women and take the children for slaves.
whether bad cops are a majority is indeed the point.
No it is not.
The majority remains silent as such they don’t matter.
That is why you have these inane videos by the truckload.
I lived in Rohners park for two years and then north in Santa Rosa for six years. Rohners Park is very provincial. Very little happens there.
If you had listened to the video, ‘ociffer’ Dave Rodriguez asks: “are you a constitutionalist” dismissively ….
That is the problem, they vote Democ.rat at more than 70% up there.
If you think these officers are out there to serve and protect, I wish you good luck. They’re there to keep you in check on behalf of the machine and, for a pension, unfunded in Sonoma county.
Thus the behavior on the videos.
There is more, too long for this medium…
When society subverts this simple fact of human nature the cohesion of society suffers and the barbarians rape the women and take the children for slaves.
Which they are doing by the truckload while the great North American, normally easily inflamed, vagina organization are eerily silent.
We have a womyn problem ….
“the prime duty of a man is to protect women and children at any cost. When society subverts this simple fact of human nature the cohesion of society suffers and the barbarians rape the women and take the children for slaves.” parker
I concur. In every generation, a percentage are criminally inclined and willing to take whatever they can get away with, they are the ‘wolves’ against whom the ‘sheepdogs’ stand guard.
“All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplus, adornment, luxury, and folly, which can and must be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival [human race] is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “Women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal.” Robert Anson Heinlein
“The majority remains silent as such they don’t matter.” G6loq
The issue is not whether there are corrupt cops, criminals in all but name, hiding under the color of authority. The issue is how the majority of cops themselves act, which matters a great deal, as it is the critical difference between the rule of law and of tyranny.
Again, the majority of cops remain silent while the outrages are committed … they don’t matter. They remain silent for their pensions which are … unfunded.
I’ve just read this, germane:
The Raping Of America: Mile Markers On The Road To Fascism.
You can only have reason when there are boundaries. No boundaries … street fight. No reasonable marquess of Queensberry rules then.
‘Ociffer’ Dave Rodriguez will ask gun in hand: “are you a constitutionalist” dismissively …. because he can, like a dog ….
I’m surprised he didn’t scratch his balls all the while.
Pingback:There was one more American hero on the train
Parker; I think that was kind of Maggie’s point.
But, I’d also add those who got involved were mostly Anglo.
Maybe I’m off base here. But, I’m referring to culture, not race.
Although it may have been due to where people were sitting, it was 4 Americans and a Briton, along with an unnamed Frenchman (or 2; and I don’t blame them for wanting to remain in the shadows, after all they have to live in their country with all the Islamist fanatics who might just hunt them down).
There might be something in Anglosphere culture that gives people a feeling that my destiny is in my own hands; therefore, causing folks to stand up to do something.
Blanket categorizations are rarely accurate.
I don’t think the video and internet records, including FBI records of SWAT teams hitting the wrong address all the time, are “rarely accurate”.
But then again, your competence has been called into question ever since 2010 when you told us we should expect our fellow Americans to fight to the death to protect free speech or some other bullsh religious fervor.
The idea that you, GB, can tell me what the police will or will not obey in their Orders, is what’s misleading.
Let me just pull up the quote in case people like to levy accusations that I’m being inaccurate.
You evidently do not comprehend the level of adoration that Americans invest in the concept of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
It is literally, an American dogma, and utterly religious, in connotation, even among secularists. For most significantly, not just among conservatives but among liberals as well…all hold to that view.
With the exception of the most rabid of leftists, every American pays homage to those fundamental American precepts. There is literally unanimity of agreement and consensus with those premises and precepts.
It is the very heart of our cultural foundation.
No one, would even think to disputing it and, all would literally fight to the death to defend it.
The argument between liberals and conservatives does not consist of disagreement as to substance but rather, upon how most to honor the Declaration of Independence’s spirit.
Guess who wrote that in 2010
http://neoneocon.com/2010/03/16/the-slaughter-solution-constitutionality-and-precedent/#comment-150216
You could get out of it if you had specified only American patriots, but including Leftists and Democrats, shows just how much you think you know about human nature and the mass organization of the Leftist alliance in the US, its influence, and its corrupt money laundering.
As for putting an AK round into the perp’s head, if you have any kind of bludgeoning tool and wish to terminate a person that’s being held on the ground, merely stormtrooper bash his head in. If you lack bludgeoning tools, use your foot and gravity. Same consequence.
Society wishes to produce manpower as cannonfodder shields, however, to protect society from violence. That’s where the “disproportionate” force bs comes into effect for Europe. Meanwhile, the foundations of gender roles, what has established this role specification to begin with, is being dissolved.
and, at the above referenced GB link:
The argument between liberals and conservatives does not consist of disagreement as to substance but rather, upon how most to honor the Declaration of Independence’s spirit.
And because those fundamental precepts are so honored and revered, socialism/communism cannot prevail upon this ground.
That is when above referenced ‘ociffer’ Dave Rodriguez draws his gun … not the time to babble then.
Ymarsakar:
In the quote you offered in your comment at 10:02 AM, I was confused because I thought (until I checked) that you were alleging that quote was by me. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn’t write it.
I thought (until I checked) that you were alleging that quote was by me. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn’t write it.
Take that GB!
:)))
“It is literally, an American dogma, and utterly religious, in connotation, even among secularists. For most significantly, not just among conservatives but among liberals as well…all hold to that view. With the exception of the most rabid of leftists…”
“You could get out of it if you had specified only American patriots, but including Leftists and Democrats, shows just how much you think you know about human nature and the mass organization of the Leftist alliance in the US, its influence, and its corrupt money laundering.”
“Having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.” Benjamin Franklin
The 2012 election was for me, a real eye opener. It forced me to confront the reality of the American electorate. That many American’s ideological loyalty is to the memes of the left, rather than to traditional American values.
I’ll grant that leftists in general are, by definition extremists.
However, many liberals do hold to the principles of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. At least for those whom they see as right minded.
Their denial of those rights to Americans on the right is due to the indoctrination they’ve had inculcated into their mind set by the schools, academia and the media; that those on the right do not believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
They’ve accepted the meme that Americans on the right are greedy capitalists desirous of imposing their religious views upon other Americans. They do not see that they are supporting the imposition of politically correct views upon those who reject those views. And in their secular righteousness, they are willing to cut down all the laws of the land in pursuit of the devil that is the American right.
Most liberals will never acknowledge their responsibility for what they’ve sown, for to do so, they would have to deeply examine what they believe to be true. Few are willing to do so.
Idealism is what’s motivating this belief that the LEOs, law enforcement officers, are here to protect us, that we should Obey them because they will defend our lives and property somehow. Which they won’t.
If it was reason backing up your fantasy make a wish belief in the LEOs, reason might convince you otherwise. But just as you wanted to fantasize about your make believe loyal patriotic American Democrats and Leftist traitors, in order to avoid talking about stuff you turned your eyes from, reason wasn’t going to shake that belief of yours. So there’s no reason for me to explain my methodology, it is useless to someone like you, GB.
My methodology is far more complicated and detail orientated, given the current evidence, than fantasy wishes about a LEO ‘protection force’ of loyalists bound by an oath. They are not bound by any such oath, not any more.
In the context of BlackLivesMatter:
Micromanaging cops:
… and yes, police care about the communities they serve. But when a proposal comes up that will hurt them in some way, it’s very easy for the professionals to see all the reasons against it, and to convince themselves that the world will be better off without it. And when it comes time to discipline a member for some offense, unless it is straightforwardly heinous, they will naturally sympathize with the accused, thinking of all the times they made mistakes that could have landed them in the same place…
Reality is we don’t have cops.
We have corrupt (pensions) military police.
Military Police = Kick ass methods
Police = social work, if and only if, delinquency is at the margin.
Unfunded pensions are a problem. They’ll get paid out of current tax proceeds. Thus they need keep the hoi polloi in a fearful state, thus ‘occifer’ Rodriguez ….