Trump the loose cannon
Trump’s Carly Fiorina “face” remark has highlighted and accentuated something about him that was already clear: he is a loose cannon, and he gets off on that and thinks many of his followers will get off on it, as well.
I think he is correct in that estimation. But I don’t think it’s true of quite as many of his followers as he thinks, and I think it repels at least as many if not more. I guess we’ll see.
There are a lot of people on the right (I use the word “right” because it’s the best one I have, but that doesn’t exactly describe it) who are so fed up with the GOP and Obama and PC-thinking and the downward slide of America that they want a loose cannon, they revel in a loose cannon. What does a cannon do, after all? Well, I’m no military expert, but I know that one of the main things cannons do is to knock down fortified defenses. The GOP is a fortified defense (in the metaphoric sense, of course), and the die-hard Trump supporters want a cannon to knock it down. And they don’t really care what else it might destroy, because the “boom!” feels so good when it’s on your side, aiming at what you see are the right targets for a change.
I see Trump as mostly “boom;” smoke and hot air and puffery. I agree that he’s said a lot of things that need saying, but that’s his entire value for me. Perhaps he’s more of a battering ram than a cannon, but a battering ram just gets you inside, it doesn’t fix anything.
That’s why I’m drawn to someone like Carson, for example. I’ve been listening to him more lately. He also has never held public office, but his quietness is the perfect foil for Trump’s bombast. Between the lines, though, you can also see an immensely strong resolve and an ability to say the hard, non-PC things. Carson just says them quietly, and somewhat slowly. The slowness and calm of Carson’s voice have an interesting effect, at least on me: he makes me hang on his words, waiting and eagerly anticipating what he might say next. It’s usually something insightful and worthwhile, as well as sensible.
As time goes on, candidates reveal themselves. That’s one of the benefits of a long campaign season (I can’t really think of another). Part of it is about that old-fashioned word: character. Trump has revealed his character to be that of a self-absorbed, vindictive, immature braggart. We’ve never had a president like that before—except—except for Obama.
I’m sick of it. I was sick of it before Obama’s presidency even started.
You might ask: why write so much about Trump? It’s a good question; after all, this is the second post today! But I don’t really see this as being about Trump. He’s just the jumping-off point. It’s about the American people and the presidency, what they want and what they need. We are at a crossroads that just might be the most important one in our history. We need to choose wisely, and well.
Bobby Jindal did a courageous, thorough, insightful and inciteful takedown of Trump at the National Press Club. He led by enumerating some of the positives that the Trump campaign has introduced. Just before, I lost any respect I still had for Ted Cruz, as I watched him cozy up to Trump and to Kim Davis. What seemed like a strong collection of candidates has really deteriorated in my eyes. Right now, Carly is my favorite. I also think a middle of the roader like Kasich might be best for defeating the Democrats.
Trump is a gadfly. As such, he has value… but we need to recognize him for what he is. He is NOT the chief executive this country needs.
(To borrow an old metaphor: the President has access to the nuclear launch codes. Is THAT where you want to put a “loose cannon”?)
As such, I wouldn’t want to see Trump as President, or even Vice-President. (The typical model is of the President who is Presidential, and the Vice-President who fights the dirty fights the President should not — during the campaign, at least. Trump would be good at the latter. But then he’s a heartbeat away from the Presidency, and in Trump’s case, that’s scary.)
If he does not win the GOP nomination, and surrenders gracefully — another thing I can’t see him doing, unfortunately — then he could do a lot of good, saying things that the candidates can’t say, as Sarah Palin did in recent elections. Other than that, I can’t think of a good role for him in this election.
I completely agree with everything you say Neo. Relieved?
Trump may, or may not, have done a service by voicing some of the frustrations. But, his “sell by date” has expired. Now he just sounds like a petulant blow hard.
A little off topic, but I have become thoroughly disgusted with FNC. It is Trump, Trump and more Trump. (My wife thinks I am paranoid, maybe so; but, that does not necessarily mean I am wrong.) I sent O’Reilly an email accusing him of shilling for Trump. No response of course. So, I just turn off the TV or leave the room when it starts.
Nothing is forever wrong, forever useless. The LIV had gotten us BHO, they may also give us Trump. The LIV is much like the old prospector’s mule. The old miner always started a journey by taking a 2×4 and whacking it across the mule’s head. Bystanders were always discomfited by the routine and inevitably asked “why?” “Before I can get him to move, I have to get his attention”, answered the miner. If you want the LIV’s vote, first get their attention – give ’em something more than a spiel in a monotonic drone. Say something daring. Try it unvarnished, unpolished. You might be amazed by, not how much the LIV can absorb, but their ability to focus on one vital message. Trump would not be an issue if one of the other GOP/Cons had made an issue of what is vital to the country.
I personally can’t stand the guy. I think he would be a disaster for the country. I had an interesting thing happen at a family dinner the other night. My sister in law said “Trump says what a lot of us working people every day when we get out of bed think, but can’t say.” If I had a face like Trump’s, I SURELY wouldn’t be criticizing anyone else’s face hahahahaha. I mean dude, REALLY, have you looked in the mirror!?!?!?!
Neo, I share your opinion of Carson. Like Elizabeth II, he shows class. We need that, if not as president then at least a a strong social voice. I’m sick of Obama’s cool and Trump’s bragging.
We are at a crossroads that just might be the most important one in our history. We need to choose wisely, and well.
The NY Slime wanna help:
New York Times Launches Congress ‘Jew Tracker’
Face palm….
Trump seems to have reached the Rorschach-projection stage that Obama had, and to a certain extent still does. So does Bernie Sanders, though not as strongly. People see what they want, regardless of the data. “I think Trump is the kind of guy who would…”
I often use a musical analogy: such candidates strike a single note, but their followers each hear any of a number of different chords, filling in the extra F#’s or E’s on their own. In extremer versions, this can occur when the candidate actually has played an entire chord, but the follower extracts a single note then reassembles the chord he wants to hear without any evidence at all.
While this projection is certainly true of all voters and the candidates they support, it is usually mild. When it reaches this level of automaticity (neologism?) it becomes harder to predict what will happen next.
With respect, Neo, and everyone else, I disagree. I am not a Trump supporter (although like Bill Jacobson, I am “Trump Curious”) and I agree his comments about Carly were inappropriate and undignified. I also agree he is a loose canon and hardly a personality we should look for in a chief executive. In the abstract, no one should seriously consider him a viable choice.
In the abstract. In the present state of affairs I understand his appeal and continue to grew more and more sympathetic to it To be clear: for me and for (I think) many Trump supporters it is not about him. It’s about everything else. It’s about an Alinskyite President successful undermining America at every opportunity; it’s about Gramscians (and their fellow travelers) in the media and academia aiding, abetting and cheering him on. It’s about one political party now so dominated by leftist radicals, a fair number of its more moderate and reasonable members are frightened to dare speak truth to power against their Dear Hope & Change Leader even as he becomes a lamer and lamer duck. It’s about this Leader and his acolytes exploiting racial, gender, orientation and class divisions at every opportunity, openly and shamelessly, for personal gain. And, most importantly it is about the establishment of the other party being so timid, so clueless, so beholden to their own narrow interests and the useless advice of the DC consultant class that they rarely make even a half hearted attempt to fight back.
So what is to be done? Well if you can’t win the game, at least you can overturn the chessboard. That is what Trump offers; that is his appeal. A Trump nomination; a Trump election would radically change the current state of politics and culture. Maybe for the better, maybe not. But many of his supporters see the America’s socio-political state as so far gone, so close to collapse, that it is worth the risk. Cynical? Yes. Destructive? Potentially. But I understand the sentiment.
Unless and until any other candidate can make the case that s/he will fight back against all of the above as forcefully and as unapologetically as Trump has, expect him to stay in first place. I don’t see that happening soon.
You’ll never build a house if the only tool you have is a sledgehammer. But that’s not a concern to the Trump followers, who consist of LIVs who aren’t capable of basic logic, and the disgruntled far right, who actually want Trump the Sledgehammer to tear things down. The problem with the latter is that, thanks to levels of magical thinking that I rarely see on the right, they think that if you tear down what’s there, in its place a beautiful house, built to the exacting standards of the far right, will build itself.
That is a walking, talking example of magical thinking of the worst kind. Rarely in human history has something like the United States arisen from nowhere, and you’re not going to get it by tearing down “the Establishment” of a country with over 320 million people so angry and non-unified that we might be on the brink of a civil war, in a time when the whole world is on fire. What you’re really going to get is a cobbled-together mess hastily thrown together by the few of us that are Gen X, and the vast teeming swarm of brainwashed locusts that is Gen Y, and you’re not going to like it.
And that’s if Trump gets to tear apart the whole structure. If he just gets a chance to turn the GOP into a circular firing squad and a smoking ruin, you’ll get a fascist Left that no longer has to pretend what it is or wants to do. And that’s even worse.
If Trump ends up being the GOP nominee, I’ll vote for him – I’m one of the ones here who says that you have vote against Dems with whatever you have that might beat them – to vote anti-Dem as if your life depends on it (because it does). But, especially at a time when all the Left has to offer are old, bad ideas, packaged up in old, bad people, can’t we listen to some of these candidates and see if it might be possible to actually build a functioning, winning anti-Dem coalition, rather than just burn it all down and hope we like what rises from the ashes?
My take on Ben Carson. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/08/ben-carson-comes-to-council-bluffs.php
He could not be more different than Trump.
And I have seen Bobby twice. Genius guy. Rhodes scholar.
loose cannon ‎(plural loose cannons)
(nautical) A cannon that breaks loose from its moorings on a ship during battle or storm, which has the potential to cause serious damage to the ship and its crew.
Unfortunately, Carson, like Trump, has foreign policy views that align more properly with the Democrats. Like his opposition to both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Carson soothes those who remain ensconced in the “Cult of Nice.”
Of course, if Carson wasn’t black he’d be down in the polling sub basement.
vanderleun:
Apparently you haven’t been paying attention to the content of what Carson has been saying. He is very hard-hitting, and actually quite blunt.
His voice may be soothing, and he is a healer by profession. But remember that he is a healer who cuts before he heals. He also is a healer who took radical steps in some of his operations, very controversial and radical steps.
If you know anything about Carson’s life, you know this:
Actually, although I don’t have time to find a better link right now, the story is that he DID stab at the guy, and would have injured him badly because he tried to stab him in the gut, but the guy’s belt bulkle stopped the knife from penetrating.
Now, THAT is a man who isn’t projecting “nice.” That is a man who is intense, and has matured and conquered his character flaws through sheer force of will as well as religion. His intensity shows. I don’t see him as “nice” at all, and I think anyone who does is not paying attention.
Note, also, the knife. Which became the surgeon’s knife, at least in the symbolic sense.
An amazing story, a very unusual person.
Agreed. And I do admire Carson. But Trump has already tagged him with the “nice” label and that is the kiss of death these days.
It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
It’s the singer not the song.
vanderleun:
If it’s such a kiss of death, why has Carson’s star been rising, then?
If Carson doesn’t get the nomination it will NOT be because Trump has labeled him “nice.”
From where I sit, Trump is still on his story arc.
His most critical role is to get Jeb Bush out of the running…
Which I think he is doing.
Carson and Fiorina are also drubbing Jeb.
Jeb is the loser that would throw the election to Biden. There can be no doubt about that.
He would also continue the bizarre pro-Wall Street ethos that infuses this maladministration.
Once Jeb is out, his supporters are going to drift to anybody BUT Trump.
I like Fiorina — as Vice President. At the head of the ticket, she would sink it. Biden ( the Democrat nominee ) would just have a field day going after her H-P daze.
I still would not count Walker out — the process is so drawn out.
Carson belongs in the Cabinet — along with Trump. I can’t imagine him at the head of the ticket. And I can’t imagine him pulling any serious percentage of the ‘Black vote.’
Cruz is looking better and better. He is correctly handling his interpersonal relations with Donald Trump.
It may yet come to pass that it’s a Cruz/ Trump ticket. Since Cruz is young and very healthy, why not ?
Both are VERY effective speakers — off the cuff.
Compare and contrast with Biden // Warren.
!
Trump has also said that Carson makes Jeb Bush look like the Energizer bunny, which is actually a pretty good line.
But then he couldn’t stop there, and went on to say that Carson’s “perhaps an OK doctor, by the way, you can check that out, too. We’re not talking about a great, he was an OK doctor.”
Creepy guy that Trump.
This article nicely encapsulates what I was trying to express:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/10/fiorinas-face-trump-fights-like-a-leftist-and-wins/
I hope it facilitates lively but productive discussion.
“If it’s such a kiss of death, why has Carson’s star been rising, then?”
Humm, I dunno. Maybe because the positions under the front runner are, at this point, fluid?
Maybe because he deserves to run second, third, fourth, but certainly not Lindsay Graham.
There’s no second place in the nomination until the convention and the VP announcement. If a Trump nomination sustains, Carson would be a smart VP choice.
“If Carson doesn’t get the nomination it will NOT be because Trump has labeled him “nice.””
No but it will be one of the factors.
========
Scott Adams:
“The press is reporting that Trump is being uncharacteristically kind to Ben Carson. People seem confused about it. The press reports over and over that, Trump has gone so far as to call Carson a “nice guy.”
This is quite a puzzler to the press. Why would Trump be so kind to this one challenger?
I hope all of you just shouted out the answer in your heads.
No, not that, you racists. The OTHER thing you just shouted in your head.
Right. That.
“Nice guy” is a linguistic sniper shot. It is engineered to take out its target without revealing where the shot came from. It is not a casual choice of words. It is deeply engineered…..
The anchor Trump dropped on Carson is that Carson is a “nice guy.” The press picked it up and can’t stop repeating it. Repetition is persuasion. Trump deputized the winged monkeys in the media to repeat “nice guy” until it will literally be the only thing you think of when you see Ben Carson’s face.
Hello, China! Here comes our nice guy to do some negotiating! You better run!
What are the first two words an American voter hears in her head after “Nice guys…”?
In America, a familiar saying is “Nice guys finish last.” If you are familiar with the saying, you probably automatically add those two words when you hear “nice guy.”
Remember, this is a long-distance linguistic kill shot. You aren’t supposed to know where the shot came from. The finish last portion of the thought is literally being created by you, in your head. And it rewires you with repetition. ”
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/128401835811/nice-guy-part-of-my-trump-persuasion-series
blert: “Once Jeb is out, his supporters are going to drift to anybody BUT Trump.”
Okay, that’s three he won’t get.
Quoting the Breitbart article above.
Bill Clinton once said, “It’s better to be strong and wrong than right and weak.”
I am in agreement with Ackler. I am not afraid of a Trump presidency. If that is what comes to pass, then that is what happens. I don’t think he will be terrible. In some ways, he may fundamentally change the political process in this country, which I welcome. Anything that will upend the ‘political class’ (as Carly calls them), undermine the power of the leftist press, and confuse pollsters and talking heads alike, would be a win in my book.
I am not saying I want to vote for him. I am just saying, if that is who ends up with the nomination, it will be a complete shake-up to politics. And that is very appealing all by itself.
Trump knows how to play hardball in business. He’s now transferring it to politics. We have not seen much of that sort of hardball in politics except from the progs.
Glenn Beck is trying to get Trump to come on his show. Trump is making him grovel. Beck must call Trump and ask him in person. But every time Beck calls, Trump is too busy to take his call. Hardball.
Trump has a talented media reaction team. Nothing, seemingly, gets by them. And Trump hits back hard and fast. Hardball.
It’s the way he has built his businesses. He doesn’t know any other way. He has some very tough associates, like Michael Cohen. I watched Cohen interviewed on Fox a few days ago. He came across as a street-smart tough guy. Hardball.
Don’t know how this transfers to the White House. The Donald versus Putin and Xi. Lots of saber rattling? Maybe so.
So maybe this is a debate on whether we adopt Alinsky tactics, or lock and load in open defiance, or hope for a leader of unquestionable stability, intellect and character.
And in passing, to note this debate is what BO (and Alinksy) want and desire, divisive and exploitable.
Neo- like you, I have been paying more attention to Ben Carson lately. Many people have an enormous amount of respect for him, but due to his quiet demeanor think him too “nice” to be a good President. I have a different opinion
I currently work in the medical field and also have a military background, which gives me another perspective. There is probably no profession on earth which requires a combination of intelligence and nerves of steel more than being a pediatric brain surgeon. In the military I’ve had narcissistic self-promoting blowhards like Trump for commanders and others who are relatively quiet but display intelligence, character, and resolve, and there is no question which had the respect of his troops and who was more effective during difficult times. I see a quiet strength of character in Ben Carson which would make him a good President in the difficult times I believe our country will face. Anyway, this is just my opinion.
Chris…
Carson would be a ZERO in the bully pulpit.
Simply too soft spoken.
Cruz or Fiorina or Trump all know and love the microphone.
Rubio is probably running for Vice President… as are many others.
I’d say that Cruz and Trump already realize that they are sympatico, as both want to shift big gears in Washington.
As Clinton and 0bama showed us, the blow hard with terrible morals fits in perfectly in Washington. Birds of a feather, and all.
BTW, Trump has been immersed in politics his whole life. Just what do you think a property developer in New York City does? Yes, it’s politics from front to back, top to bottom.
As gaffy as Donald is — look at Joe.
It’s going to be a Biden// Warren ticket.
The only issue is whether it’s going to be Cruz// Trump …
or Trump// Cruz — until such time as Donald self-destructs.
That “nice guy” bit against Carson is lethal. No-one wants their president to be all that nice.
They want some fist underneath all that velvet glove.
Trump is deadly serious about winning the presidency. He is using Alinsky tactics to do so. Alinsky says – pick your target, personalise them, and then demonize them. Trump picked a target no politician was willing to touch, illegal immigration. Then he personalized it by focussing on recent victims of illegal immigration, and then he demonized those who support illegal immigration. Classic Alinsky, but in a good cause.
Megyn Kelly aired a hit piece on Trump in July that accused him of raping his first wife. His first wife called BS and the story died. Come the first debate, and a giggling Kelly tries again, with a question about Trump being insulting to women. He wins that exchange, and adds insult to injury by calling her a “bimbo”. Is Kelly or any other Fox News airhead (O’Reilly, Van Susteren, Kelly) going to try that line of attack again?
Look what he has done to Jeb Bush, the anointed one, with his $143,000.000 war chest and a RNC primary schedule designed to deliver Jeb the nomination. Target: Jeb. Personalise: Another DC insider, like his brother. Demonize: Low energy. Where is Jeb in the polls? Sinking like a stone.
More insights here:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/10/fiorinas-face-trump-fights-like-a-leftist-and-wins/
Tonawanda: “So maybe this is a debate on whether we adopt Alinsky tactics[, or lock and load in open defiance,] or hope for a leader of unquestionable stability, intellect and character.”
Setting aside “lock and load in open defiance”, the formulation of your statement should be ‘and’ instead of ‘or’.
As I’ve said, Trump is merely exploiting a market inefficiency from the absence of Right activism that’s needed to counter the currently unopposed Left activism.
“Alinsky tactics” are just one set of tools in the activist workshop.
The needed solution is the people of the Right collectively adopting/adapting Marxist-method activism and zealously competing head-on everywhere with Left activists.
It’s not a preference choice. The activist game is the only social cultural/political game there is. It’s a zero sum, win or lose, do or do-not choice. The habitual self-limitation to the usual electoral politics that’s being exploited by Trump is not an alternative to the activist game because there is no alternative to the activist game. Self-limiting to electoral politics is merely self-defeating in the activist game.
Trump’s campaign exploits the wrong premise that the Right and the GOP are the same. The basic step for taking up the needed solution is eliminating the destructive assumption that the GOP is leader and container for the Right.
What’s needed to fix the nation needs to be done by the people of the Right coming together as Marxist-method activists apart from the GOP.
Due to their conflation of the GOP and the Right with primacy for the GOP, Trump supporters think battering the GOP will fix things for the Right. It won’t, because the shortcomings of the “establishment” GOP are symptom, not cause. Activism is greater than and subsumes electoral politics. The needed solution is Right activism that is greater than and subsumes the GOP, not battering the GOP.
Winning the activist game empowers you to do better than “hope” for a “leader of unquestionable stability, intellect and character”.
Activism empowers you to truly select elected leaders, filter out undesirable candidates, set the agenda, set the stage with social conditions you control, equip them, and hold them accountable to do the right thing within their lane – as you determine the right thing to be.
By separating the GOP and the Right and assigning primacy to the Right via collective Marxist-method activism, you can achieve ‘and’ instead of ‘or’.
George Pal,
It’s a social, not individual phenomenon. The “LIV” is a conformist. To marshal the “LIV” to your agenda, set the zeitgeist to your agenda. The “LIV” will conform to it. Engineering the zeitgeist is an activist function.
blert- You could be right about Carson being too quiet for the bully pulpit. Right now my favorites are Cruz and Fiorina, but I’d crawl over broken glass to vote for any of the others over the dem nominee- except for Trump. I see him as a shallow narcissistic blowhard, a self absorbed bully with no loyalty to anyone but himself, and I could never vote for him. As president I don’t trust that he would do any of the things he now says he would do, including immigration. If it comes down to a choice between Biden and Trump in November of 2016, God help us.
Kyndall G said it best. “You’ll never build a house if the only tool you have is a sledgehammer.”
But that sledgehammer sure as hell made the walls of the inner sanctums of the Press and RINO HQ into rubble.
Now, if Ted Cruz, Ben, and Carly can rise above the din and fury, we may have some wise souls to choose from.
Trump is narcissist, of course. But given their typical focused drive and magnetic appeal, such flawed people have their pro-social uses. What are Trump’s?
This needs elaboration, because I’m reading objections and dismissals here that I’ve muttered much myself.
For example, isn’t almost EVERY Democratic party leader a narcissist? And all the more transparently repellant because of it? – overweening ‘self-love’ wrapped up with power lust? A veritable prescription for pathological altruism! And thereby a mere “tool” worthy of derision. Into the trash bin with ya, Trump-mania!
It’s true that, as Neo points out, Carson is almost the anti-Trump in terms of personality, and for many their respective appeal flows from that. But “personality” is not the same as character, as she and other’s commenting here are too easy to claim. This is a misleading conflation.
I myself was raised by two NPD parents, and driven in my youth to wrestle with Borderline disturbance for many years. (Thank you Dr Malka Goodman, wherever you are, because you saved my life.) So, I’m very sensitive to narcissists, and usually aversive to their appeal.
My “lightbulb” acceptance about Trump came through seeing him in 30+minute talks in Iowa, and elsewhere. ) (Just Google him up at Youtube; make sure you find the longer presentations.)
Trump talks in spiral soliloquies, unfurling a salad bowl of intersecting, reinforcing themes that are striking and stirring.
I think his style of presentation appeals to uniquely to woman. He’s managed to captivate a series of beauties as wives, without alienating them: I think this speaks well to Trump’s character. While very thin-skinned and unfiltered, he’s also loyal to those who adore him.
Calling him “immature” is to shortchange what he is, what he does and how he does it. “Immature” is too superficial to be fair – even though he does embody overreaction and brandishes boyish “bad boy” charm.
Therefore, I’m imploring you to give him a chance. Once one empathizes with him, one finds that there’s more “there” there than at least I’d thought (eg, throughout his celebrity TV show years).
Sure, I’d rather have the deep-thinker substance of Cruz or Fiorina – or the impressive executive heft of the mild-mannered Walker, or the even impressive yet inexperienced doctor Carson. Leadership has mercurial qualities, and manifests in many forms.
But for now, Trump leads. He has a fortune as proof of self-made success; and his association with intellectuals like Ann Coulter, Mark Levin and Cruz is proof enough for me of his conservatism. If the common people are ready to see him as their leader, I’m willing to see him go there.
One final provocation: is Trump the American answer to Italian media baron turned Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi? I’ve seen the comparison mentioned. But I’ve not run across a useful public comparison and leadership contrast yet. I’m interested to consider it.
Therefore, I’m imploring you to give him a chance.
The time for that is over, but that’s not the fault of Trump. Civil War II approaches very closely to my originally predicted time table after 2012’s election split.
Nothing a politician can do can stop the avalanche, not even Trump as President.
We are past the point of No Return. There will be no more chances… for anyone.
The “LIV” is a conformist.
Basically like a Nazi stormtrooper and SS enforcer. If his leader is good and merciful, then the stormtrooper is good and merciful. If the leader is Hitler… well.
The tools obey their user and it is the user that determines the ethical good or evil of the tools.