Hey, I've got an idea: how about telling the truth?

I don’t care if you are against this candidate or that candidate, as long as you’re against them for what they actually do and say and not what someone else says they are doing and saying.

In other words, check it out.

Now we read stuff like this, quoted by commenter “MJR” in the comments section here. MJR writes* [see “ADDENDUM” below], “Ya just lost me, Ms. Fiorina ”” for good, I’m afraid,” and then quotes that linked post, which said:

Carly ordered Ben Carson to apologize about the “Muslim” issue and highlighted her belief that the Islamic Civilization of the 800-1500 era was the most “enlightened,” reiterating a theme she brought up in a post 9/11 letter to HP staff, prior to laying them all off.

“When people get to know me, they tend to support me,” she told Fallon. “That’s what you see in the polls.”

Perhaps everyone should try looking up what Fiorina actually said, rather than what other people falsely report her as having said.

Just as Palin never said she could see Russia from her house, Fiorina did not say what she is quoted there as having said.

The Fallon interview is available. Here it is; I’ve kept whole thing, but the relevant part starts at minute 1:48:

Watch it and see what she actually says; don’t take my word (or anyone else’s) for it.

Fiorina does not ask Carson to apologize nor does she laud Islamic civilization in that interview. She states that Carson was wrong to dismiss a candidate simply on the basis of religion, because the Constitution explicitly forbids any religious tests for office.

I don’t care if you like Fiorina or don’t like her. But don’t misquote her—or any other candidate—just to whip up hatred towards them.

This sort of thing will be happening quite regularly. It’s a favored political tactic, and right now the long knives are out for Fiorina. Again, feel free to disagree with what Fiorina (or anyone else says)—but keep it to what she actually said. And I don’t care if it’s Fiorina or anyone else; I try to correct misquotes from any candidate when I find them. These memes get going and the lie replaces the truth in most people’s minds.

[NOTE: By the way, I noticed that the article MJR quoted has a lot Facebook comments. It’s stirring up a storm. If you would like to correct the misstatement on Facebook, please go to the post and do so. I can’t, because I’m not on Facebook, and you have to be on Facebook to do it, I believe.

And if I’m wrong about this, and I missed part of Fiorina’s Fallon interview and she really did say things on the show yesterday like “Carson should apologize” and/or reiterate her 2001 HP speech about Islam being so enlightened (although I don’t think she did), please let me know and I’ll correct myself.]

[ADDENDUM: * “M J R” wants me to add that M J R deeply regrets the error and has offered an apology in the comments, which can be found here. My reply to M J R is here.]

Comments

Hey, I’ve got an idea: how about telling the truth? — 98 Comments

Cornhead on September 22, 2015 at 3:56 pm said:

Thanks for the correction.

Carly taking a legalistic view on the issue which is fine.

But this is a fake issue. Focus on the future. Focus on the real issues. And defeat Hillary.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 4:06 pm said:

Cornhead:

I agree that it’s a fake issue.

But it’s most definitely not a fake battle.

This is, I believe, exactly the sort of thing commenter “Eric” is referring to when he keeps harping that “the activist game is the only game there is.” How many people have already seen that Fiorina said Carson should apologize, and reiterated her praise of glorius Islam? Many. Even on this blog, among people I consider intelligent, it was swallowed whole and people rejected her on the basis of this false rumor.

How many people who see the original lie will ever see the correction? Many fewer than see the lie. Certainly, this blog doesn’t have that kind of traffic.

What’s more—even among those who see the correction, how many will retain the feeling of distrust for Fiorina as a result of the lie? Things like that linger somewhere in people’s minds, cause distrust, and fester there.

That’s why propaganda and lies work.
Tom on September 22, 2015 at 4:09 pm said:

I had an argument about a month ago with a co-worker who VEHEMENTLY insisted that Palin said she could see Russia from her house. He got VERY angry about it. LOL
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 4:14 pm said:

Tom:

You can say “LOL,” and I think I understand why you say it. But to me, this is a very serious issue. The consequences of people believing propaganda like that are dangerous.
Nick on September 22, 2015 at 4:14 pm said:

I hate to paraphrase Garrison Keillor, but he once made a comment along the lines of: “A politician telling the truth is like a green 7. Sometimes you see a 7 and it’s green, and sometimes you see something green and it’s a 7, but neither happens often enough for you to associate one with the other.” That’s about where I am with links to blogs I’ve never heard of.
Inkraven on September 22, 2015 at 4:19 pm said:

“She states that Carson was wrong to dismiss a candidate simply on the basis of religion, because the Constitution explicitly forbids any religious tests for office.”

Actually, he’s not wrong. She is correct in stating that tests of religion for holding office are unconstitutional (we can thank England for that, with their centuries-long and only recently overturned No Catholics Allowed policy). However, she fails to note the difference between the government requiring a religious test and a private citizen holding the belief that a follower of religion X is unsuitable for office, and voting accordingly. It was a bit before my time, but certainly she remembers the people that did not vote for JFK on the grounds he was a Catholic and might have divided loyalties between our country and the Vatican.
junior on September 22, 2015 at 4:21 pm said:

Just remember –

Mitt Romney gave that woman cancer! And John McCain had an affair with that lobbyist!

Unfortunately, this sort of stuff is only going to become more common as we get closer to election day.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 4:25 pm said:

Inkraven:

In my opinion, he was wrong in stating it in a way that sounded so categorical.

He has more recently walked back the remarks somewhat by modifying and amplifying on them.

However, at least you’re disagreeing with what Fiorina actually said, rather than with a lie about what she said.
Artfldgr on September 22, 2015 at 4:29 pm said:

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carly arrived with this imperial air and East Coast flair and a lot of people sensed, and I’m one of them, right away, that this might not be a good cultural match. Roy Verly, HP employee from 1979-2000

HP’s longtime director of corporate communications, Roy Verley, said his ex-boss alienated colleagues with a “cult of Carly” that put self-promotion first. “She didn’t know what she was doing and couldn’t deliver on her promises,” said Verley, who left HP in 2000. The notion of a successful Fiorina reign at HP, he said, was “fantasy”. Roy Verly, HP employee from 1979-2000

Fiorina “did damage to a great company and I don’t want to see her do damage to a great country.” David Packard Grandson of HP founder

Fiorina “simply did not have the skills to manage one of the world’s largest technology companies” Former Compaq Chairman

“She’s a born politician,” he elaborated “She’s extremely confident of her ability to step into any situation and command it.” Carl Guardino [do note that this is not a good thing]

“The Compaq merger is a dangerously risky, a very costly, step… The risk is great that trying to meld two disparate companies and cultures together in the computer business will come to grief.” Walter Hewlett founder

“Dell must be totally gleeful, because these guys are going to spend all their time untangling themselves.” IDC analyst Roger Kay

“This was a big bet that didn’t pay off, that didn’t even come close to attaining what Fiorina and HP’s board said was in store. At bottom they made a huge error in asserting that the merger of two losing computer operations, HP’s and Compaq’s, would produce a financially fit computer business…. It must deal with both the relentless competition in computers and its own particular need to battle on two fronts, against both IBM and Dell… Let’s just say one thing: No matter the outcome, the aggressive presence of Dell in the marketplace cannot be good for HP…. In almost everything that HP does today, there’s the shadow of Dell. It is a macho competitor… “ Carol Loomis Fortune magazine

This merger has been a lemon…Stand up, Walter Hewlett, and take a bow.” Carol Loomis Fortune magazine

there are TONS of articles trying to spin things to the positive.. but if you know what she did to get her place with lucent, you would be floored that that is the thing.

basically she made a billion dollar deal with a company that was too small to do the job, then convinced the company that did the billion dollar deal to loan the billion dollars first… then they lost it all for the most part… but on the books you had a billion dollar deal…

the books did not include a note that said, sold billion dollars of stuff to company we loaned billion dollars to
Mark30339 on September 22, 2015 at 4:39 pm said:

Outstanding points Neo. It takes so little ~~integrity~~ effort to keep passing a narrative along. In 2002 polymath Michael Crichton was asked to speak about what he thought was our most critical challenge; he said it was our inability to separate fact from the fictions maintained in our advocacy. For his compelling litany of these errors, see tinyurl dot com slash truthy101.
M J R on September 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm said:

*** IMPORTANT COMMENT ***

I have been had, and by the very mainstreamers I richly despise.

neo-neocon has patiently done my research for me, and in a manner most embarrassing to me.

neo’s warning, that “This sort of thing will be happening quite regularly,” is both timely and poignant for me.

I thank neo for setting the record straight, as she does so well and so often.

And I apologize to any and all who have been misled, even temporarily.

(And I apologize to Ms. Fiorina.)

I am very, very embarrassed.

M J R
Tom on September 22, 2015 at 4:48 pm said:

Neo, please don’t think I find ANY humor in it at all. I understand how deadly serious it is, the “LOL” was partly out of frustration, and partly out of the idea that someone still believes that. I even tried explaining where it came from(an SNL skit), but he wasn’t having any of it.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 4:48 pm said:

M J R:

No need to be embarrassed.

On occasion I’ve fallen for a false story myself.

There people are good at what they do. And they are clever, because they tap into an already-existing meme (in Fiorina’s case, her 2001 speech) that has people on edge, and then they take it a few steps further.

The lesson is to be careful in the future. But believe me, the trap is there for any of us to fall into.
Artfldgr on September 22, 2015 at 4:55 pm said:

“We went from losing market share to gaining it. By the time I left, we were the leader in every market segment, every product category,” Fiorina told Fallon.

By the time Fiorina left HP, the company was not the “leader in every market segment, every product category.” It wasn’t actually even the leader in personal computers, which was at the heart of the acquisition of Compaq, and one of the company’s largest business segments.

What is true is that when Fiorina showed up, HP was a laggard in the PC computer market, ranking fourth behind Dell, IBM , and Compaq, which at the time was the leader. But HP’s market share had been consistently growing, not shrinking. HP did shoot up to to No. 1 in the PC market in 2001, but that was following the merger with Compaq, which before the deal had 13% of the PC market to HP’s 7%.

the year after the merger, HP’s PC market share dropped to just over 14%, not much more than Compaq had alone. And by 2003, HP had slumped to No. 2, trailing Dell. In her final full year at the company, Fiorina’s HP trailed Dell by almost two percentage points in the PC market.

HP did eventually regain the lead in the PC market, but it didn’t happen until the final quarter of 2006, nearly two years after Fiorina had left HP. And even by then, it was starting to look like a Pyrrhic victory. The PC market, the one Fiorina was in part chasing with the merger with Compaq, was already becoming vastly less profitable than it used to be.

It’s not really clear how much being a good CEO is a clear indication of whether one will be a good president. But it is a lynchpin of Fiorina’s campaign, and she is not afraid to bring it up. If she wants to really prove her time at HP was a success, however, Carly Fiorina is going to have to come up with a much better defense.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/22/carly-fiorina-hewlett-packard-latest-defense/
Sharon W on September 22, 2015 at 4:55 pm said:

Thanks Neo. I, too, am a stickler for dealing with the facts. As a Catholic, I found myself being stirred up repeatedly by “things Pope Francis said”. At the beginning of this year, I determined to only draw conclusions, based on his actual writings. When there are language issues and media spin, it is so easy to slant or even pervert the actual message. It has greatly altered my perception of this Pope, and I have a lot more peace. Republicans trying to get their message out, face more challenges than any Democrat…and that without a language barrier.
Frog on September 22, 2015 at 5:08 pm said:

Artfldgr is flailing away on Carly and H-P. But that is not relevant, Art. Not relevant. Period.
It is akin to the Obama birth certificate circus.
Artfldgr on September 22, 2015 at 5:12 pm said:

Propaganda is different. It’s an organized effort to manipulate the public using mass media, including censorship, misinformation, half-truths and lies.

Propaganda relies on images and emotions, especially fear.

and women respond to fear more than men… they fear more, and fear more things that are not real than men do… (this is biological because while a man must stand up to a predator to protect the family, she should be running away with the children rather than be a prize for the said predator if the man fails)

but i already wrote about this a long time ago when i quoted hitlers writing as to the electorate being feminine… which is why fear works so well, and even MORE so now that we have peeled women away from their mates and with feminism they can oppose rationality with fear based emotional conclusions.

all while denying that that exists, leaving the constructors of said games to be free to practice without any opposition as such would drum up conspiracy, distrusted males, and lots of other things having to do with ego

and before you say no, remember that most advertising and such is targeted to women because it works more on women than men, and advertisers have been trying to find what works with men for decades without much result (at least in conspicuous consumtion).

we right now have women with feminist propaganda that she can desire a condition in which her group, if followed, will not live. women should not have to give birth is what feminists say, and so, what would be that result? not to mention that they are seling devices for women to stand up and pee… why? so they can feel more manlike akin to a man who dresses in womens clothes can feel sexiness that women dont feel when they biatch about pantyhose that is one size and only comes up to their knees…

what does the left use to get women to vote? well the fear that they will lose the ability to provide free meat to the abortion business to slice up for profit… or that the state wont pay for their birth control so they have to… or that every man is a rapist, so stay away… or women make less than men (but that is an agregate that includes stay at home)… all white men are racists, but white women are not…

and they even took over womens magazines to have a direct channel to dissemination among the most easily influenced.

this does not mean at all that men are immune… not by a long shot… but it does mean that to get the most bang for your buck, direct your points towards the women and make it fit their pavlovian child to grave training… focus on their desire to be taken care of and transfer that to the state which has to be totalitarian to accomplish the goals, and on and on it goes.

and, the MOST important, get representatives of your class, like sangers black ministers or all the college graduates that claim women could not go to school, to ameliorate reason… maybe even institutionalize it all with study courses.

some of it is truly amazine if you take a step back and pretend your an alien come to the planet to observe… with the funkiest being displacemetn, where they deem the choice of women is actually made by men so women suffer.

you will see all kinds of this thing happening in the election because the control of the women is necessary for the neutralization of the votes of the men that would halt things.. this then leaves the rest of the game to bribing the race groups.

Propaganda and Mass Persuasion: A Historical Encyclopedia, is a decent book… but books by men like david ogilvy are also eye openers..

cmon ladies, lets choose to wear our underwear on the outside, have hookup sex, smear fruit paste for youth on us, and believe that 80k in tuition for basket weaving will get you a job.

🙂
jack on September 22, 2015 at 5:14 pm said:

This is why Trump is still leading in the polls. Someone says something he thinks is wrong about him, he slaps them back twice as hard and threatens to sue (even it may be true).

Oh and he doesn’t let it fester. He does almost in real time.
K-E on September 22, 2015 at 5:20 pm said:

I don’t think Carson was wrong. I understood exactly what he meant when he said he could not support a muslim for president. He clarified his statement b/c many decided to take the worst possible version of what he said and twist into something ‘racist’ and ‘bigoted’ – as ‘friends’ of mine on Facebook declared it.

I 100% get that Carson meant those of muslim faith who place sharia law above all other law. Look to Saudi Arabia for an understanding of that. Would anyone consider those in Saudi Arabia ‘radical’ islamists? I wouldn’t. They are very mainstream muslims. Yet their laws include chopping off hands, giving lashes and even jailing/killing rape victims.

Sure, there may be some muslims who don’t go along with that, but many do…and they aren’t just extremists in ISIS.

Carson had this right. I am glad he is not apologizing.

As for Carly, she didn’t ding Carson in what she said. She only gave her opinion about who she could support. We all get that freedom in the voting booth.
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 5:46 pm said:

Based on what Fiorina said to Fallon, my sense is that she has yet to accept that Islam itself and classical Western democratic principles are fundamentally incompatible. She has yet to accept (perhaps even consider) that Islam is not a religion but instead a totalitarian ideology wrapped within the facade of religious pretense. Any presidential candidate who has yet to accept that truth is unprepared to defend this country. Which is not meant to imply that she is not the best of the available, electable (IMO) candidates.
Cornhead on September 22, 2015 at 6:01 pm said:

And another false narrative was the Muslim “clock” kid. A complete setup. Once the narrative gets out it is hard to correct. Sides are taken and people dig in. And, of course, Barack exploits in the most shameful way per usual.
NeoConScum on September 22, 2015 at 6:02 pm said:

MJR: A Stand-Up comment.

I’m with Geoffrey B. Yes, our sacred Constitution is correct. A Muslim can run for president. Would I vote for him? (It would have to be a Him, incidentally.) Nope. NEVER. Even if he were preaching rock ribbed conservative principles. Why in the world would saying such a simple FACT put me in danger from the PC-Thought Police? Ohhhhhh, yes, they have a Strangle Hold on the throat of our culture. Blunt Truth is soooo Intolerant.
_________________________________
That said, this crap is empty nonsense. What if a neo/crypto/Marxist with No Religious Beliefs below the skin were to run…Oh, yeah, he did. Twice. Successfully. No Muslim will be a serious contender for president this century. Fake Tempest in a False Meadia Teapot.
Inkraven on September 22, 2015 at 6:02 pm said:

Neo: Carson’s underlying assumption is that Islam and Western Civilization are fundamentally incompatible. Do you think he’s wrong?

Frog: If Fiorina can’t competently run a billion dollar company, why should we entrust her with a trillion dollar country?
junior on September 22, 2015 at 6:06 pm said:

GB –

Not quite. She basically said you should judge the candidate on their own merits.

Someone who is an Islamic true believer is probably going to have problems with the merits.
NeoConScum on September 22, 2015 at 6:06 pm said:

Ohhhh…One follow up: The Muslim ‘Yoot gets an invite to the Oval. But, NOT the families of murdered police officers. They got a Climate Change Myth-Lie blathered in Alaska.
Francesca on September 22, 2015 at 6:29 pm said:

So, do we actually know if Fiorina knows the facts about Islam or not? If she doesn’t, she needs to study up. There is no way any candidate for president should be ignorant of the truth about Islam and Muslims. Is there any place where she lays out her comprehension of the truth about Islam? I was interested in supporting her but not if she is deluded about our greatest enemy.
Ann on September 22, 2015 at 6:51 pm said:

If I were a candidate, I’d avoid speaking off the cuff on anything. I imagine, for instance, that the Catholic Church is not exactly thrilled about this comment regarding the pope’s visit in that Fallon appearance:

“I don’t agree with him [the pope] on all his politics for sure, but I certainly admire how he is trying to break down the bureaucracy of the church in a lot of ways and go back to serving the poor and helping people.”

go back to serving the poor and helping people? When did the church ever stop doing that?

Sure hope that was speaking off the cuff and not planned.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 6:54 pm said:

NeoConScum:

Exactly.

Anyone can lie when running for office. Lying is not limited to Muslims.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 6:58 pm said:

Geoffrey Britain:

George Bush had the same position as the one you think Fiorina holds, and he certainly defended the country.

So your fundamental premise is wrong.

What’s more, there actually are Muslims who are good citizens and accept all the premises of the Constitution and the Enlightenment. I know some of them. And this despite the fact that it’s also true that if they were to strictly follow their religion, that would be opposed to many of those tenets.

What percentage of the whole do they represent? That, I don’t know. But it’s not an insignificant percentage. We don’t need to know that, however, to say that an entire class of people should not be prohibited from the office merely because of religion.

And believe me, I can easily make that statement without any compromise whatsoever about the danger presented by a huge percentage of followers of Islam, and of Islamic terrorism. I have no problem saying all of those things, and I believe Fiorina’s statements about what needs to be done about the Muslim world and about terrorists, as well as Iran and Syria and Hamas and all the rest, seem very sound to me.
Dennis on September 22, 2015 at 7:02 pm said:

Francesca Says at 6:29 pm”

“So, do we actually know if Fiorina knows the facts about Islam or not? If she doesn’t, she needs to study up.”

You don’t have to twist Carly’s comment to sense a profound ignorance about Islam. Based on this comment I remain highly skeptical that she has learned anything about Islam since her letter praising Islam after 9-11.

The thing which bothered me the most about that letter after 9*11 is that Carly expressed much extreme concerned about the welfare of Muslims who might be endangered by non-Muslims but she expressed no concern about the danger to non-Muslims by Muslims.
Wooly Bully on September 22, 2015 at 7:04 pm said:

MJR: You deserve more praise for your classy apology than blame for making a mistake. Anyone can make a mistake, but it takes courage and honesty to make a genuine apology and not some kind of weaselly excuse.
Ray on September 22, 2015 at 7:06 pm said:

This is a speech Carly Fiorina gave just after the 9/11 terrorist attack. you might find it interesting.
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/speeches/fiorina/minnesota01.html
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 7:09 pm said:

“GB — Not quite. She basically said you should judge the candidate on their own merits.” junior

Not quite junior. I said, “Based on what Fiorina said to Fallon, my sense is that”, i.e. it is implied rather than stated, that Fiorina has “yet to that Islam itself and classical Western democratic principles are fundamentally incompatible.” I’m not putting words into her mouth but drawing a plausible impression based on the implications of her words.
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 7:18 pm said:

Watch it and see what she actually says; don’t take my word (or anyone else’s) for it.

People are weak in this humanity, Neo. It has always been thus. That is why they don’t deserve victory, if ever they did deserve victory that is. The inheritance of freedom people got, they squandered and sold off to the Left.

Many prefer being slaves to being free after all.

This kind of cultural decadence does not deserve a Hero King or Queen, to save them. They are no longer worthy of that human sacrifice.

That’s why propaganda and lies work.

They did the same thing when they fell for the attacks on Sarah Palin. Another human sacrifice people thought could elevate the guilt of America into some kind of forgiveness or solution.

They were no more worthy back then than they are now. I no longer expect anything competent from the Normals these days and there’s quite a lot of that out there.

I am very, very embarrassed.

You should get angry, and get vengeance against the Left. In that fashion, you may atone, not that I believe atoning is needed or feasible at this moment in human fate.

And another false narrative was the Muslim “clock” kid. A complete setup.

Probably, yea.

For years I’ve conditioned myself not to believe in the “experts”. It’s an automatic firewall defense. Other people might want to consider doing something similar given the present trajectory. It’s less mentally taxing than trying to verify everything and anything.

Or they can sit around and watch as the Left stomps a foot on their face over and over, that’s also an option too.

Any presidential candidate who has yet to accept that truth is unprepared to defend this country.

How is that different from GB believing around 2012 that Democrats were going to fight to the death to defend free speech and other freedoms when push came to shove? If you are enlightened Geoffrey, it’s because of the new sources you watch on the internet. Others are not so fortunate as you to benefit from the Truth so early. Not that 2012 was early, it was quite late but compared to those that live in American mainstream elite circles… they aren’t supposed to have a clue about the true enemy.

Push came to shove, Geoffrey, are Democrats killing Planned Profit funding and abortion profiteers and defending the Freedom of us Americans, eh? Are they now. Are they fighting to the “death” too?
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 7:32 pm said:

Ray:

I no longer find it interesting the 20th time around.

If you want to look at a previous and fairly lengthy discussion on this blog on the issue of that speech, my remarks begin here, and the back-and-forth go on for quite some time after that. Read it. Also, read the discussion about it that begins here.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 7:35 pm said:

Dennis:

Well, I guess I’m just as ignorant as Carly, then, because I happen to agree with her. See this.
G6loq on September 22, 2015 at 7:36 pm said:

For years I’ve conditioned myself not to believe in the “experts”.</b
There are three ways to go down in flames.
One is womyn, the second is gambling, the third is listening to experts.
Of the three the first one is the most pleasurable.
The third one is the most certain.
Charles De Gaulle
G6loq on September 22, 2015 at 7:44 pm said:

néo-neocon Says:
September 22nd, 2015 at 7:35 pm
Dennis:
Well, I guess I’m just as ignorant as Carly, then, because I happen to agree with her. See this.

Uh, it depends on mooslime population size:
By Dr. Peter Hammond
FrontPageMagazine. com | Monday, April 21, 2008

The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States – Muslim 1.0%
Australia – Muslim 1.5%
Canada – Muslim 1.9%
China – Muslim 1%-2%
Italy – Muslim 1.5%
Norway – Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark – Muslim 2%
Germany – Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom – Muslim 2.7%
Spain – Muslim 4%
Thailand – Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves – along with threats for failure to comply. (United States ).

France – Muslim 8%
Philippines – Muslim 5%
Sweden – Muslim 5%
Switzerland – Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands – Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago – Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris —car-burnings) . Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam — Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana – Muslim 10%
India – Muslim 13.4%
Israel – Muslim 16%
Kenya – Muslim 10%
Russia – Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia – Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia – Muslim 40%
Chad – Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon – Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania – Muslim 70%
Malaysia – Muslim 60.4%
Qatar – Muslim 77.5%
Sudan – Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh – Muslim 83%
Egypt – Muslim 90%
Gaza – Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia – Muslim 86.1%
Iran – Muslim 98%
Iraq – Muslim 97%
Jordan – Muslim 92%
Morocco – Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan – Muslim 97%
Palestine – Muslim 99%
Syria – Muslim 90%
Tajikistan – Muslim 90%
Turkey – Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates – Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ – the Islamic House of Peace – there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan – Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia – Muslim 100%
Somalia – Muslim 100%
Yemen – Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. — Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 7:49 pm said:

G6loq:

Gee, and here I thought one of the principles of our country and our Constitution was that we didn’t come to conclusions about an individual based on the belief system of a certain percentage (even a majority) of a group that varies, be it racial or religious.

And here I thought conservatives and libertarians believed in that sort of stuff.

Silly me.
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 7:56 pm said:

neo,

“George Bush had the same position as the one you think Fiorina holds, and he certainly defended the country.”

G. Bush did indeed hold that position and still does and did defend this country to a much greater extent than Obama. That said, other than words and bluster, he did nothing substantial about Iran. He did nothing about the Saudi-Qatar covert support for stealth jihad. Did nothing about CAIR, et al.

Given all of that, I dispute that my fundamental premise is disproved by G Bush’s record.

“What’s more, there actually are Muslims who are good citizens and accept all the premises of the Constitution and the Enlightenment. I know some of them. And this despite the fact that it’s also true that if they were to strictly follow their religion, that would be opposed to many of those tenets.”

We all know many Muslims who appear to fit that category. My point is that those ‘moderate’ Muslims are in profound denial (at best) as to the precepts of the ‘religion’ they embrace. Implicit to that profound a level of denial is that it is ultimately unsustainable, should events eventually place enough pressure upon that position. Which I believe is a predictable certainty given Islam’s precepts, ala Europe’s experiencing a stealth jihad of Islamic immigration, something you not long ago pointed out.

“What percentage of the whole do they represent?”

According to a 2012 poll;

“40 percent of Muslims in America believe they should not be judged by U.S. law and the Constitution, but by Shariah standards. “Almost half of those Muslims surveyed — an astonishing 46 percent — said they believe those Americans who offer criticism or parodies of Islam should face criminal charges,” 58 percent said criticism of their religion or of Muhammad should not be allowed under the Constitution. Asked whether U.S. citizens who are Christians have the right to evangelize Muslims to consider other faiths, just 30 percent agreed Christians have such a right. Only 19 percent said they “strongly agree” with the idea that Americans have a right to invite Muslims to consider another faith.”

Nor should it be forgotten that Muslim population’s radicalization deepens as it’s percentage of the population increases.

“an entire class of people should not be prohibited from the office merely because of religion.”

Not even if that religion’s fundamental precepts are theologically irreformable and fundamentally, irrevocably, antithetical to the US Constitution?

A religious ideology every bit as antithetical as were Nazism and Soviet Marxism? Islam is at war with Western civilization and will not stop because for Islam, the modern world’s unavoidable, inadvertent, cultural intrusion is a mortal threat.

“Fiorina’s statements about what needs to be done … seem very sound to me.”

As far as they go yes, but fatally limited. She’s currently advocating bringing a knife to a gun fight.
To my knowledge she’s said nothing about revoking Obama’s agreement with Iran. Nor stated a willingness to use military force to stop Iran, which is the ONLY thing that will deter them.
Her position, as currently articulated, means that stealth jihad would continue under Fiorina. At best she’s headed in the right direction and may deepen in understanding. A process that the public has to accompany her upon. And that future events will ensure happens. The only question is how many more Americans have to die before the obvious is acknowledged.
michael on September 22, 2015 at 8:09 pm said:

In this instance I think Carly was wrong. Indeed the Constitution does preclude a law by the government relating to implementing to religious test as a qualification for holding office.

However the Constitution does not preclude an individual from having an opinion. Dr Carson was stating an opinion based on today’s environment. To my knowledge he did not advocate a law preventing a Muslim from every becoming President in the future; that would have been wrong.

Having said that, I totally understand that I will not agree of everything Carly says. But…be that as it may I like the lady.

I do not care if her father owned the company and her first job out of high school was CEO making 99 times what the janitor made.

I will support her until she is President or is forced out of the race.
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 8:17 pm said:

However the Constitution does not preclude an individual from having an opinion. Dr Carson was stating an opinion based on today’s environment. To my knowledge he did not advocate a law preventing a Muslim from every becoming President in the future; that would have been wrong.

That’s why it was a Leftist trap in more ways than one. Because there’s little good ways of answering it. They want Fio to attack others or be attacked for making some remark that offends X, Y, Z.

The Left is very good at Divide and Conquer strategies. The Democrats have had it since 1829 at least, and given the number of Democrats in the Leftist alliance, that knowledge certainly would have transfered over in usage.

To be clear, I don’t support anyone, for anything. I am only interested in people who want to or can or will kill the Left. If they show me that, they’re good for me.

“Talking” is meaningless. Someone “saying” they will “kill” X is meaningless, except to the FBI and SS. Saying and doing are two very different things. Americans have forgotten that in their media glitz and mind controlled livestock enslaved lives.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 8:19 pm said:

Geoffrey Britain:

Well, if George Bush didn’t do enough protecting to suit you, then perhaps Fiorina wouldn’t, either.

And what on earth do you think all that talk of Fiorina’s about building up the military was about, if not putting both the possibility and the threat of military force ON the table? I didn’t get the impression she was talking about spending billions to play tin soldiers.

Her emphasis on more peaceful means of pressuring Iran is appropriate, as well.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 8:22 pm said:

Ymarsakar:

You may notice that I haven’t said Carson has no right to his opinion. Nor have I said that I don’t understand his reservations about electing a Muslim; I’ve explicitly said I do, and I’d be extra-wary myself.

But Fiorina is correct, IMHO, that he’s wrong in excluding all Muslims from consideration for the office.
G6loq on September 22, 2015 at 8:25 pm said:

néo-neocon Says:
September 22nd, 2015 at 7:49 pm
G6loq:
Gee, and here I thought one of the principles of our country and our Constitution was that we didn’t come to conclusions about an individual based…
The Constitution is not a suicide pact!
Islam doesn’t fit the humanistic outlook of the US Constitution and for that matter of Western Civilization.
We currently have an infestation/infiltration of muzzies in our inner sanctum. Clear and present danger.

Also, it seriously irks me when the womyn talk and act all fuzzy and tender with regards to Islaaam.
Islam will grade them by boob size, bag them and sell them …. yet they coo!
There is something ‘Jungian’ at work there.
The call of the Harem?:
meet Jillian Lauren, “Some Girls: My Life in a Harem,”

Some things are unacceptable, some compromises are impossible.

Fiorina stepped in it … Carson is right.
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 8:35 pm said:

“Any presidential candidate who has yet to accept that truth is unprepared to defend this country.”

“How is that different from GB believing around 2012 that Democrats were going to fight to the death to defend free speech and other freedoms when push came to shove?” Ymarsakar

“Having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.” B. Franklin

In 2012, I was referring to liberals of the John Kennedy school. Many of whom are in the babyboom and older generations. ‘Better information’ has since informed me of the younger generation’s paucity in that regard and the depth of leftist indoctrination among much of the public.

In 2012, I held the position that Romney could not lose, that Obama could not win. 2012 was an eye opener.

“I thought one of the principles of our country and our Constitution was that we didn’t come to conclusions about an individual based on the belief system of a certain percentage (even a majority) of a group that varies, be it racial or religious.” neo

We are considering an ideology whose tenets demand force and coercion as a theological imperative. If someone states that they embrace Nazism and Marxism, it’s a given that their support for the principles of our country and our Constitution is at base one of lip service because those ideologies are antithetical (directly opposed or contrasted; mutually incompatible). No Muslim can honestly consider Islam’s tenets and contrast them with the principles of our country and our Constitution and sincerely claim to support both. To assert that they do, requires a massive amount of denial. Since Islam and the Constitution are antithetical, eventually moderate Muslims will have to choose one or the other.

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” Matthew 6:24King James Version
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 8:41 pm said:

Going back to that old rodeo about Fio and Islam.

Outsourcing your political power to Trump in replacement of outsourcing your political power to the GOP is not a shortcut to winning the activist game. Conservatives need to hold onto their political power by doing the work of activism and competing for themselves.-Eric

Quite right, Eric.

Why electoral politics? What other way would you propose?-Pal

Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun.

Or to put it another way, war is the ultimate vindicator or decider of these disagreements.

Although I think too much credit is given to Islam advancing science and culture during the “Dark Ages” it is true there were Islamic rulers encouraging reverence and understanding of Ancient Greek and Roman science, mathematics and engineering during a time when Christiandom was not (or, at least not so enthusiastically).-Fire

Certainly, they did exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash%27ari
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%60tazila

I have a lot of sources and they tipped me off about a lot of early Islamic and Christian historical events. So unless you have those sources or an uptick on it, you wouldn’t even find those entries on wikipedia. How would you even spell them without knowing what they were in advance? Shrugs

So they did exist, but well, Islam cleaned house as usual. And Islam became stronger on the conquering front for it, after getting rid of the heretics.

But Fio is in a bad situation, even if she wanted to talk about and debate such historical events… she’s talking to the American population conditioned to be zombies. Americans have no idea how to debate historical events given the brain washing they have been exposed to for so many decades. Well, it’s not something unique to Americans, humanity itself is also guilty. Islam is also guilty.

Surprisingly, even though I was responding to the old comments, it really felt like it was happening now in a debate. Same topic after all.
NeoConScum on September 22, 2015 at 8:41 pm said:

G.B.: George W. Bush killed 10s of thousands of well deserving Muslims. WORKS FOR ME.

I’m entirely with Neo’s 8:19pm comment. Carly’s “second phone call” to the Iranian Head Islamist leaders is a lovely, strong, reverse Obama’s weakness start to her first day in the Oval Office.
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 8:46 pm said:

In 2012, I was referring to liberals of the John Kennedy school. Many of whom are in the babyboom and older generations. ‘Better information’ has since informed me of the younger generation’s paucity in that regard and the depth of leftist indoctrination among much of the public.

And that makes you superior to Fio talking about Islam in “ignorance” because… anyways, Pal has said he feels superior to her because Fio got duped, as if Pal can’t be duped. I don’t know about how you feel on that issue Geoffrey Britain…

We are considering an ideology whose tenets demand force and coercion as a theological imperative. If someone states that they embrace Nazism and Marxism, it’s a given that their support for the principles of our country and our Constitution is at base one of lip service because those ideologies are antithetical

Which is why elections are meaningless in a (fake) democracy and why political power comes out of the barrel of a gu something or other. Poptart.

Instead of trying to decapitate them, however, I think it is more effective to skin the snake from the other end first. Cut them off at the knees. Reduce their numbers via attrition and offensive wars, instead of huddling in defense waiting for some mass slaughter to come to us.

Unless people are willing to do something about this in America, what they say about Islam or the Left doesn’t matter.
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 8:51 pm said:

neo,

“Well, if George Bush didn’t do enough protecting to suit you, then perhaps Fiorina wouldn’t, either.”

What will ‘suit me’ is an acceptable resolution of the problem. Band aids are NOT an acceptable resolution of a cancer. Iran is a cancer, Islam is the source of that cancer, cutting out that cancer WILL require overwhelming military force.

“And what on earth do you think all that talk of Fiorina’s about building up the military was about, if not putting both the possibility and the threat of military force ON the table?”

Bush built up the military as well but when push came to shove (9/11) he pulled his punches. A military is only of as much use as the willingness to use it when called for and ONLY a credible threat of immediate US military force will deter the Mullahs. Just as the election of Reagan proved with the hostages. But Reagan’s election did not stop the Mullahs because the lust for power (their real motivation, religious ideology being the rationalization) is an insatiable master.

More peaceful means of pressuring Iran have utterly failed. As they always do when faced with evil.
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 9:06 pm said:

I have a slightly different pov on Afghanistan and Iraq under Bush II than Eric’s legal or political justifications.

I’ll just go pick that up from where I wrote it down before.

https://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/without-iraq-and-afghanistan-to-kill-terrorists-the-us-will-see-mass-casualties/

Meat grinder and fly trap. Not a permanent solution, but it does cut down on the numbers. And when you see the numbers invading Europe, you might want to cut that down as well if you know what happens in the future.
CapnRusty on September 22, 2015 at 9:08 pm said:

I think the general feeling is that if you say you are a Muslim, you are “all in.” I don’t think there really is such a position as “moderate” in Islam. If there were such folks, why have we not heard from them in response to the increasingly wide-spread and increasingly horrific slaughter being conducted by Isis in the name of their god? Could it be that they don’t dare speak up?
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 9:10 pm said:

Bush built up the military as well but when push came to shove (9/11) he pulled his punches.

Almost half his general staff were Democrat traitors and saboteurs like Shinigami Shinseki or Casey. Don’t forget that.

And no, Bush built up the military after years of Democrat sabotage and neglect. The US Army was only strong on paper, it was a paper tiger until Petraeus got it working the way it was intended to against insurgents.

The only way to build up a military is to give it someone to fight against, to build combat experience and get rid of the incompetent officers and traitors. Training can do much in peace time, but it won’t be enough against a determined enemy like Islam, with their logistical support both inside and outside the US.

More peaceful means of pressuring Iran have utterly failed. As they always do when faced with evil.

Indeed, which also applies to the evil DemoNcrats in the US as well.
Ymarsakar on September 22, 2015 at 9:12 pm said:

I don’t think there really is such a position as “moderate” in Islam.

Oh there is, it’s hanging from a tree or six feet under. You never saw that position?
G6loq on September 22, 2015 at 9:47 pm said:

Islam’s ‘Rule of Numbers’

This Islam this and Islam that and the Constitution and the this and that is getting to be a case of …’ if you have to explain the battle is lost!’

Unless people are willing to do something about this in America, what they say about Islam or the Left doesn’t matter.
Yup!: at about 10% penetration it get hairy …
Angry Muslims Taunt NJ School Officials: “We’re Going to Be the Majority Soon”

Strange the apparent indifference of the womyn.
parker on September 22, 2015 at 9:59 pm said:

When the ‘moderate muslim majority’ stands against those who have supposedly hijacked the religion of peace, I will start believing in the existence of the ‘moderate muslim majority’. Yes, I do know a few muslims, although they are rare in my area. Nice people but I would never trust them to sincerely denounce the hijackers or watch my back.

Just guessing, but world wide I doubt that less than 5 percent will ever swear to protect the values of Western Civilization against the savages of sharia. Islam is a death cult, period. There will never be a majority of muslims who renounce sharia.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 10:00 pm said:

CapnRusty:

I don’t know where you’ve been, but I’ve certainly heard of them. For example, this sort of thing, and this, as well as this and this.

There’s plenty more where those came from.

It also is helpful to understand that moderate Muslims or reformist Muslims speaking out do so at great personal risk. This probably discourages a very significant number who would otherwise do so.
neo-neocon on September 22, 2015 at 10:05 pm said:

parker:

See this.

What’s more, who here said a thing about a moderate Muslim majority?

I certainly didn’t. Personally, I don’t think a majority of Muslims are moderate. But that’s not what this argument is about, and I think it’s interesting that you seem to think it is. My point (and I believe Fiorina’s) is that some Muslims are fine, and that every individual must be evaluated as an individual on the basis of his/her record. One should not categorically say that “all Muslims” this or all Muslims that.
Geoffrey Britain on September 22, 2015 at 10:49 pm said:

“I don’t know where you’ve been, but I’ve certainly heard of them. For example, this sort of thing, and this, as well as this and this.” neo

1) “Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) was founded and incorporated by Ani Zonneveld”… “after the September 11 attacks in the United States, Zonneveld’s Muslim identity became a strong part of her identity, leading to write and produce spiritual-themed music, including an album titled “Ummah Wake-Up,” in which she sings the praise of Islam while encouraging Muslims to raise up for progressive causes, and began performing at various interfaith organizational events in an effort performing at various interfaith organizational events in an effort to raise awareness of Islam as a religion of peace.”

HUGE red flag. Any Muslim who insists that Islam is a religion of peace is a practitioner of Taqiyya. Of the 10 principles her org. advocates, 7 are entirely antithetical to Muhammad Meccan hadiths and the Qur’an’s dictates.

2) A close reading of the link indicates that British Muslims for Secular Democracy is an organization that seeks to promote the view that Islam is a religion of peace and that British Muslims are discriminated against by British society.

3) Non-support of ISIS does not equate to rejection of Islam’s violent tenets. One of the two insists that Islam is a “religion of peace”.

4) subscription wall

Where are the anonymous American Muslim voices on the internet condemning ISIS? Speaking out in favor of separation of church and state? Where are the anonymous American Muslim voices on the internet supporting the principles of our country and our Constitution?

I have however seen plenty of American Muslim voices on the internet condemning ‘Islamophobia’…
Otiose on September 22, 2015 at 11:14 pm said:

I do not understand the mileage the media is getting out of this Carson vs Muslim president issue. Fallon above quotes Carson accurately as saying he would not advocate a Muslim being president.

He did not say that a Muslim could not be president. He said that Carson would not advocate a Muslim to be president.

I wouldn’t either – no other factors being known. I mean I would have to think about it if it was between Hillary and a Muslim conservative Republican (if we could find one and he or she got thru the primaries), but given we have a guy in there now who spent part of his childhood in a Muslim environment and schools seems it’s all moot. Obama may not say he’s Muslim but his actions speak pretty loudly.
parker on September 22, 2015 at 11:34 pm said:

I am not saying all muslims this or that. I am saying that what matters is that there are very few muslims who actively denounce the berserkers of ISIS, Hamas, etc. That tells me all I need to know about the followers of the religion of peace. Yes, there are muslims who love their children and have no pressing desire to behead my grandchildren. But it seems obvious to me that when push comes to shove the overwhelming majority will under pressure tacitly, if not openly, side with the warriors for sharia crowd. I would never trust a muslim in high office. Same goes for members of the KKK, Aryan Nation, CPUS, etc.

One not only judges others as individuals, one also judges individuals by the company they keep.
Ann on September 22, 2015 at 11:52 pm said:

“One not only judges others as individuals, one also judges individuals by the company they keep.”

If you apply that rule to all Muslims, I guess that means all Christians must be judged by the actions of the odious Westboro Baptist Church, right?
Oldflyer on September 22, 2015 at 11:54 pm said:

Carson did amplify his points with Megyn Kelly this evening without backing off.
He pointed out that Islamic doctrine will not separate the state from religion; counter to our constitution.
It does not recognize the legitimacy of other religions; counter to our constitution.
Homosexuals are condemned under Sharia law; counter to our mores, and constitutional principles.
He pointed out that most countries controlled by Muslims discriminate against women, using the Koran as justification.
Carson went on to say that anyone who would forsake the principles of Muslim ideology, reject Sharia law, and pledge to uphold the constitution would be acceptable to him. He did note that a Muslim who did those things would be apostate and an infidel in the sight of the Islamic world.

I am pleased that the initial reports about Carly Fiorina’s statements have proven inaccurate. The report shook me a bit; although I was certainly not prepared to abandon her over it.

The internet is wonderful. It is also a mine field. Almost daily I get information, forwarded from friends in good faith, which is simply not factual. I have warned them to fact check information that seems to be too good–or alternatively too scandalous– to be true. Still, they frequently do not. I seldom accept anything at face value that does not come with a link to the source.
parker on September 23, 2015 at 12:34 am said:

Ann,

Last time I looked, baptists were not beheading unbelievers or systematically raping children or throwing homosexuals off tall buildings or mutilating the genitals of 7 year old girls or massacring dozens at Fort Hood or sending suicide bombers into shopping malls. I am not a fan of weirdo christians sects, but do let me know if you get word they intend to invade Iowa and pose a threat to commit any of the forementioned atrocities in Iowa. I’ll reload a few hundred more rounds of 357 magnum to add to my stockpile.

Failure to recognize an enemy is okay if it results in your death, its not okay if it threatens me and mine. I am not the enemy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I do however, recognize who/what is. Hint, it ain’t baptists.
neo-neocon on September 23, 2015 at 12:47 am said:

Ann:

The Westboro Baptist Church are not Christians. They are a very small rogue spinoff group that has been denounced by Baptists and other Christians alike. They are affiliated with no one but themselves.
neo-neocon on September 23, 2015 at 12:51 am said:

parker:

But the subject matter of this post was whether NO Muslim could EVER be supported as president, which is a very different issue than what you’re discussing.
Ann on September 23, 2015 at 1:28 am said:

Neo: The Westboro folks may not be Baptists, but they are Christians. Obviously, not very good ones, but they believe in the divinity of Christ and base their beliefs on the Bible.
Dennis on September 23, 2015 at 2:20 am said:

Neo said to Geoffrey Britain:

“George Bush had the same position as the one you think Fiorina holds, and he certainly defended the country.

So your fundamental premise is wrong.”

In my opinion George Bush made a great deal of noise, spent a great deal of money, lost the lives of many American service men and women, and accomplished very little good in his so called “war on terror.” Perhaps if he had been followed by a President who was willing to stay the course there might have been some marginal benefit from Bush’s policies but I’m not even sure of that.

Because Bush embraced the false narrative that Islam is a “religion of peace”, he made horrific blunders. He and his advisers misunderstood the immense impact religion and culture have on a people and because of that miscalculation they convinced themselves that the Iraqis were all Jeffersonian democrats just waiting for the chance to be free once Saddam was out of the way. Because of their miscalculation, the insurgency caught them totally unprepared and things rapidly spiraled out of control. Their military invasion of Iraq played right into the ambitions of the Iranian regime who have emerged from the fiasco greatly strengthened.

In addition, the doors were thrown wide open for poor oppressed Muslims from all over the World to flood into our country as immigrants. After all, if Islam really is a religion of peace, it would be wrong to discriminate against them on the basis of their religion. Also, it is my understanding that “moderate” members of the religion of peace were advanced into positions of power throughout our state department and defense department.

Although the left hated Bush, they swallowed Bush’s religion of peace narrative whole. So we have people in power in our country on both sides of the aisle for whom Bush’s false narrative has become truth. Once you establish that Islam is a religion of peace there is no excuse to criticize practitioners of the religion and Muslims are transformed into an oppressed minority which must be protected from bigoted xenophobic Americans who don’t like being swamped by practitioners of the religion of peace. That false narrative justifies the opinion help by the elite on both the left and the right that the only reason anyone would criticize Islam is because they are bigots, racists and Islamophobes. Bush himself avoided making any connection between the peace and the terrorism which the religion of peace inspires in its practitioners. Thus began the mythical “war on terror” as if the true enemy were a tactic of war rather than a hateful supremacist ideology.

Fourteen years ago Bush’s ignorance could possibly be excused since Americans had not had any reason to pay much attention to the history and theology of the so called “religion of peace.” Because of the mistakes which the West under his leadership has already made, and the additional mistakes made by Obama who has doubled down on the religion of peace narrative, radical Islam has emerged much stronger now than they were then. The chance that the radical Islamists who are in charge in Iran will soon possess the atom bomb soon is very high. At this late date, we can not afford to continue the failed policies which have strengthened the radical elements in the religion of peace and which have made us exponentially more unsafe since 9-11.
Tonawanda on September 23, 2015 at 6:41 am said:

GB @ 10:49 PM:

I just went to the first site linked by neo. It looks like a one person show, Ani Zonnefeld, with Hollywood and entertainment industry background. There is window dressing on the site to give it the appearance of being other than a one person show, but nothing concrete.

The “Board of Directors” includes Reza Aslan, a very slippery fellow who tries to give off objectivity and modernity but always seems to wind up on the side of jihad, if only in a slippery way.

Robert Spencer is a scrupulously fair, factual and extremely well informed (highly erudite, has read the koran in the original arabic) critic of islam. Read this article by Spencer for an interesting pov on Aslan from “progressive moslems”:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/best-selling-author-reza-aslan-lectures

At random I looked up another fellow on the board of directors to find out, among other things, that he was the keynote speaker at a gathering to condemn Israel as an apartheid state, IOW jihad propaganda, moslem axe-grinding.

The correct answer is: “To your hypothetical question my hypothetical answer is, I can support anyone who truly swears to uphold the Constitution of the United States, period.”

Like GB, I was made uneasy by Fiorina’s response. It suggested to me that she was tin eared at best on the issue of moslems and islam, and at worst she is still propagandized and ignorant.

Bush lost the war the day after 9-11. (I realize that is hyperbole.)

He did not need to condemn and attack islam, but he should not have spoken (and repeated) the putrid falsehood which is the central lie of jihad propaganda.

Neo, we do not want legalistic, razor-edged “truthfulness” on the issue, we want someone to defend us zealously against this hate-filled, sadistic existential threat, regardless of how many dupes or nice people support the threat.
NeoConScum on September 23, 2015 at 7:40 am said:

Dennis & Tonawanda: Really…? Seriously…? Baaaaaaaaad Boooooosh..! Booooosh’s Fault..!!
Welcome to the same page of Obama & Paulites delusionary dream book. Cannot Possibly Make This S*** Up!!
____________________________________
I must be dreaming…Could have sworn that a little journey of critical thinking back to those(subsequently)Democrat Thought Police rewritten days of the Iraq which His Infantile Majesty was handed by(the EviiiiiLLLL)Jorge Boooosh was a.)Peaceful…b.)a burgeoning Republic….c.)millions of purple fingers at polling places…d.)blossoming new schools…e.)dozens of blooming newspapers….f.)Sunnis & Shia at peace with one another…g,)fewer Americans dying by violence than at the same time in Barack’s Chicago…h.)the intention to keep a steading force of American Troops there(per Japan, Germany, South Korea)for guaranteed stability to become deeply rooted….I.)the aforementioned force to maintain stability in the ‘neighborhood’…j.)NO ISIS…k.)al Qaeda on the run everywhere…l.)…Iran’s full knowledge that serious-strong Non-Muslim players were close…and..m.)the projection of Strength and Consistency by America.

ALL the above began caving and being abandoned by the cowards and apologizers of Demoland on January 20, 2009.

Neo: Jump in anywhere…((-:
Tonawanda on September 23, 2015 at 8:38 am said:

NeoConScum @ 7:40 AM:

When I said “Bush lost the war” the day after 9-11, I explicitly called it hyperbole. I have never said nor do I believe Bush is a bad man or an evil man. To the contrary, as much as a complete stranger can, I like him as a person.

Bush had a unique opportunity the day after 9-11. He was the first prominent person to utter a destructive falsehood, and he followed it up by many statements and gestures setting the tone to follow: praise islam, praise moslems, do not be a bigot by implicating islam or moslems in 9-11 or jihad violence.

Instead, he could have said, more neutrally and effectively, “We need to examine the background and beliefs of these terrorists, we need to examine their means and methods, so this does not happen again.” Simple, does not even refer to islam or moslems, but puts the issue in the exact correct context.

Sometimes, pointedly not saying something is the best course.

Assuming what Bush did militarily afterwards was a good thing, it could not possibly be a completely good thing.

His battle may very well be a good one, but it is just one in a 1400 war, the virulence of which waxes and wanes but never goes away.

It just so happens that the most needed message the day after 9-11 was that we are in a relentless war where our enemies have an ancient ideology and a commitment to destroy peace in all ways large and small. It should not have been that their ideology is one of peace.

We have yet to get to step one in this war, a sufficiently widespread understanding of islam and moslems. We may never get there, or it may only come after the West Side and Park Slope are nuked.

In the meanwhile, I want to get a message of “no quarter” from my candidate. This does not mean saying stuff which is harshly impolitic.

It does mean refraining from saying unnecessary stuff which sounds tin-eared and pandering.

Sometimes pointedly not saying something is the best course.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 8:57 am said:

Dennis

And what was Dennis exactly doing after 2001 for him to exercise his authority of judgement on Bush II’s foreign wars?
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:04 am said:

Personally, I don’t think a majority of Muslims are moderate. But that’s not what this argument is about, and I think it’s interesting that you seem to think it is.

A propaganda battle, Neo, isn’t about the superficial or apparent issue at hand. It’s about a trap, about war and tactics. As you mentioned before, this is a fight in the propaganda war, it is not merely an issue about the issue. To the Left, at least, the issue is never the issue. It’s just a tool to pave their way to power, and power is what they need for their Evil, the opposite of life, a death cult existence. In life, you are born, then mature and grow old with wisdom and decay. In Evil, you go the opposite route. Decay happens first in Planned Profit clinics and you lose wisdom ,then the Left “unborns” you in death by making a bag of cash. People become immature as they hit their 20s and 30s. This is the reverse of Live in Life, this is eviL.

So yes there’s a factual argument to be made, but the battle is about something greater than is apparent.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:06 am said:

There is no way any candidate for president should be ignorant of the truth about Islam and Muslims. Is there any place where she lays out her comprehension of the truth about Islam?

It is not up to the elite leadership to tell us what is what. It is up to the common fighter to tell his chain of command what is F ed up and how to fix it, but human beings tend to concentrate authority and power at the top, at the head. It’s been a flaw of hierarchical systems since humanity’s inception as a social creature for survival.
Tonawanda on September 23, 2015 at 9:20 am said:

I would love to know if Fiorina is familiar with the concept of taqquiya:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/ben-carson-exposes-islamic-taqiyya-but-theres-even-more-you-should-know/

If she is not, that is a flaw.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:21 am said:

Westboro are Leftists first and foremost. Secondly, they are Christian heretics.

It’s like Shia vs Sunni or Sunni vs Yazidi.

There’s a reason why they have different names even though they share some history on Allah.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:27 am said:

The reason why the distinction is important is because certain religions have a chain of command, like a democracy does or a military does. Islam has the Caliph and the nation of the Caliph is the Caliphate. He is the religious head of the Sunnis. Shia has their own Caliph.

The reason why they are gunning for national territory is because a Caliph is a religious and secular leader of the Islamic faithful. Sort of like if you combined the Pope with the God King Hussein right now, imagine the power they could wield.

Thus a Christian heresy does not obey the Pope nor any other Christian religious head, unless they are also heretical.

Muslims, however, obey one of two religious heads. Strangely enough, the position seems vacant for now, so much of Islam’s authority is taken up by fatwas, by the priests themselves.

Like a Leftist, if the Left’s death god gives them an order to crack down on conservatives and turn in their patriotic neighbors to the IRS, the Leftists will obey.

Same goes for Islamic followers if a person with Islamic authority tells them to go to war.

ISIL deems themselves a caliphate, with the leader being a caliph and thus with the religious and secular authority to order All Sunni Muslims to pay tax and go to jihad. That, in and of itself, is often why their recruits are from all over. Bush II prevented the Islamic Jihadists from obtaining territory and a national body, thus preventing them from forming a caliphate with that kind of centralized authority, for 8 years.

Europe would have been invaded some time ago without that. Once Islam consolidates itself, the Sunni and Shia branches have access to a lot more resources than some minor Christian heresy would.
Tonawanda on September 23, 2015 at 9:33 am said:

Robert Spencer on Carson and the islamophobic haters who agree with him:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-muslim-islamophobes-who-agree-with-ben-carson/

It occurs to me that in real life, the one I lead talking to actual people, most folks understand islam exactly for what it is, folks of all varieties. They are not fooled.

Note to candidates: don’t be scared of the truth.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:50 am said:

most folks understand islam exactly for what it is, folks of all varieties. They are not fooled.

That in itself won’t keep them alive. The military superiors of Hasan at Ft Hood 1 also weren’t fooled. But they didn’t do anything because to report Hasan as a terrorist for his rantings would have ended the careers of many, Hasan wouldn’t be one of them.

They may not be fooled by Hasan’s antics, but their superiors have Made them Obey. And they may even have been killed later because of that, although unlikely.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:55 am said:

Tonawanda ,

after reading the link, I realized that CAIR was avoiding the issue of the Caliph and the Caliphate. The Caliph, descendant of Islam and also the theocratic council of imams, hold religious authority to amend laws of a secular nature as well as command the faithful zealots. The reason is because only Allah or those closest to Allah, like Mohammed’s progeny or other Imams, can tell people what the will of Allah is. Reminds me of the Catholic Church’s dogma before the Protestant Reformation, that only priests could read the bible in Latin, that translating it would be a heresy.

Islam is incompatible with democracy because a Caliphate is more like a divine monarchy than a democracy, even if the Imams do vote at times on theocratic issues. And by Islam, I’m obviously referring to the two main surviving branches, Sunni and Shia. The Other ones, the rational reformers, got wiped out by Islam in holy wars or heresy inquisitions.
Dennis on September 23, 2015 at 9:59 am said:

NeoConScum Said at 7:40 am

“Welcome to the same page of Obama & Paulites delusionary dream book. Cannot Possibly Make This S*** Up!!”

When I read the post my first thought was that NeoConScum couldn’t be serious. Whether it is serious or not it does make entertaining reading.

So where to begin?

Neither Tonawanda nor I made any pretense that we support Obama’s foreign policy. That accusation is so far off base that it is difficult to believe it is serious. Nor did we make any comments to indicate that we are Paulites (whoever that is).

Even if the USA had maintained troops in Iraq indefinitely, it is undeniable that our intervention in Iraq greatly strengthened the military position of the regime in Iran by removing their strongest enemy. Not only did we free Iran from a bitter enemy but we then we tied down our soldiers and resources in Iraq indefinitely so that we had few resources left to expend on Iran. Finally our intervention gave Iran the opportunity to intervene in the internal affairs of Iraq.

Bush didn’t have to invade Iraq. He had the choice to complete the mission in Afghanistan first and to actually showcase his vision of a peaceful free Islamic country in Afghanistan before moving on to invade another country. He probably decided to open a second front because he greatly underestimated the difficulty of pacifying Iraq. We know that is the case because of his lack of preparation for the insurgency which followed our invasion.

While the pictures of blue fingers waving in the air were heartening at the time and undoubtedly millions of Iraqis who went to the polls were hoping that the elections would lead to peace. It turns out that Bush promised the Iraqis much more than he could deliver. The Iraqi democracy was always extremely fragile and as subsequent history has demonstrated Iraqi democracy was not able to survive without occupying troops to force people to follow the rules. Iraq has not been able to become the strong partner in peace which Bush was hoping for and is so unstable that it can not survive without continued American intervention.

It is easy to become distracted about whether Iraq could have been successful if Bush had been succeeded by an American president who was willing to maintain troops in Iraq but that discussion is an argument about a battle and completely misses the big picture in which we are losing the war against militant Islam. Iraq and Afghanistan were already part of dar al islam before Bush invaded and they remain within of dar al-islam today. So whether Iraq were stabilized or not in not relevant from the standpoint of militant Islam. The Islamic ummah continue to control both countries and can count on citizens from both countries to support their jihadi movements against dar al-harb. Because he was unwilling to engage the ideology which motivates militant Islam Bush did very little if anything to slow the rapid progress of militant Islam in its quest to rule the World.
Dennis on September 23, 2015 at 10:12 am said:

Ymarsakar Says at 8:57 am:

“Dennis

And what was Dennis exactly doing after 2001 for him to exercise his authority of judgement on Bush II’s foreign wars?”

After 9-11 I was doing exactly what Bush should have done. I bought a copy of the Koran and learned what is in it, I engaged in intense discussions with a Muslim to find out how they perform exegesis on the Koran and what they believe, and I tried to place myself into the Muslims’ world view so I could understand the world as a Muslim understands it. Then I turned my attention to the history of Islam and tried to understand their history from their perspective and also from the perspective of their victims and dhimmis.
Artfldgr on September 23, 2015 at 10:38 am said:

TOP â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ do â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ distribute!!

Everything â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆ is â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ
â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ fine. The â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ
â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ Government Hillary â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ knows
â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ best â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ.

â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ SECRET
formwiz on September 23, 2015 at 11:30 am said:

Good for you.

That the trolls and the fake “Conservatives” (y’know, the ones who brag they stayed home rather than vote in ’12) are that worried about her says good things about her.

Keep bringing out the truth.
Artfldgr on September 23, 2015 at 11:38 am said:

It is Obama who said at an Islamic dinner, “I am one of you.”
It is Obama who said in an ABC News interview, “My Muslim faith.”
It is Obama who described the Muslim call to prayer as “the prettiest sound on earth.”
It is Obama who gave $100 million in U.S. taxpayer funds to re-build foreign mosques.
It is Obama who wrote that in the event of a conflict, “I will stand with the Muslims.”
It is Obama who assured the Egyptian Foreign Minister that “I am a Muslim.”
It is Obama who bowed in submission before the Saudi King.
It is Obama who sat for 20 years in a Rev. Wright’s church in Chicago listening to Wright condemning Christianity and professing Marxism.
It is Obama who exempted Muslims from penalties under Obamacare that the rest of us have to pay.
It is Obama who purposefully omitted “endowed by our Creator” from his recitation of The Declaration Of Independence.
It is Obama who who mocked the Bible and Jesus Christ’s Sermon On The Mount while repeatedly referring to the “Holy Quran”.
It is Obama who traveled the Islamic world denigrating the United States Of America.
It is Obama who instantly threw the support of his administration behind the building of the Ground Zero Victory mosque overlooking the crater of the World Trade Center.
It is Obama who refused to attend the National Prayer Breakfast, but hastened to host an Islamic prayer breakfast at the White House.
It is Obama who ordered both Georgetown and Notre Dame Universities to cover the cross before agreeing to speak there, but who has NEVER requested that the mosques he visited adjust their decor.
It is Obama who appointed anti-Christian fanatics to his corps of “czars”.
It is Obama who appointed rabid Islamists to the Department of Homeland Security.
It is Obama who said that NASA’s “foremost mission” is an outreach to Muslim communities to boost their self-esteem.
It is Obama who, as an Illinois Senator, thrice voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act in favor of infanticide.
It is Obama who is the first President to not make a Christmas greeting from the White House, but instead decorated the White House’s Christmas tree with photos of Chairman Mao.
It is Obama who curtailed the military tribunals of Islamic terrorists.
It is Obama who refused to condemn the Muslim Fort Hood killer as an Islamic terrorist.
It is Obama who refuses to speak out against the horrific treatment and execution-by-stoning of women in Muslim countries, but instead submitted Arizona to the UN for investigation of alleged human-rights abuses.
It is Obama who, when queried in India, refused to acknowledge the true extent of radical global Jihadists, but instead profusely praised Islam in a country [India] that is 82% Hindu and the victim of numerous Islamic terrorist assaults.
It is Obama who funneled $900 million in U.S. taxpayer dollars to Hamas, and military contracts to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
It is Obama who ordered the United States Postal Service to honor the Muslim holiday with a new commemorative stamp.
It is Obama who directed the U.S. embassy in the U. K. to conduct outreach to help “empower” the British Muslim community.
It is Obama who embraced the fanatical Muslim Brotherhood in the “Arab Spring” that overthrew Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was America’s strongest ally in North Africa.
It is Obama who forces taxpayers to fund mandatory Arabic language and culture studies in grammar schools across our country.
It is Obama who follows the Muslim custom of not wearing any form of jewelry during Ramadan.
It is Obama who departs for Hawaii over the Christmas season so as to avoid being criticized for not participating in seasonal White House religious events.
It is Obama who, as president, has never ever gone to church on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.
It is Obama who who appointed as his chief adviser Valerie Jarrett, who is a member of the Muslim Sisterhood, an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
It is Obama who appointed a Muslim convert as CIA director.
It is Obama whose secretary of state John Kerry said Muslim interests drive US plan for war.
It is Obama who has opened the legal immigration floodgates to Muslims.
It is Obama who receives the highest approval ratings from Muslim Americans.
It is Obama whom a Pakistan Minister asked to be leader of all the world’s Muslims.
Artfldgr on September 23, 2015 at 12:11 pm said:

More unchecked truth

Fed held Debt……..($492b)….($2,793b) ….UP 467% under Oballah!
National Debt…….($10.62t)….($18.05t) ……UP 70% under Oballah!
Household Debt…..($2,584)…..($3,321) ……UP 28% under Oballah!
Food Stamps…..(28,223m)…(46,061m) …..UP 63% under Oballah!
People Idle……….(81.02m)…..(92.89m) …..UP 14% under Oballah!
Debt to GDP……..(77.35%)…(102.75%) …..UP 25% under Oballah!

“The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment” – Gallup, 2015

“The statistics are actually a little deceptive..we’ve been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours.” – Barack Obama, 2011

“Any existing job funded with stimulus money now will be counted as a job saved, whether it was endangered or not.” – Peter Orszag, Obama OMB Director, 2009
neo-neocon on September 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm said:

Ann:

Do you not see the difference between Muslims acting in accordance with certain segments of the Koran, and in line with the teachings of quite a few clergy (not just one rogue one), as completely different from a single sect (Westboro) acting in complete variance with the Bible and the teachings of every other demonmination of Christianity and condemned by all other Christian clergy?
G6loq on September 23, 2015 at 6:28 pm said:

“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran is the highest authority in America, and Islam is the only accepted religion on earth.”
Nothing new about these pronouncements b-t-w….

Carson is right.
G6loq on September 23, 2015 at 6:39 pm said:

imam Sheikh Muhammad Ayed gave a speech in 2015 to Palestinian Muslims.[2] He said that Europe was facing a demographic disaster with low birth rates, and urged Muslims to have children with Europeans so they could “trample them underfoot, Allah willing.” Since Muslim women according to traditional Islamic law are forbidden from marrying or having children with non-Muslim men, he was essentially calling on Muslim men to conquer Europe through its women. Muhammad Ayed further stated that “We will give them fertility. We will breed children with them, because we shall conquer their countries.”

Carson is right.
G6loq on September 23, 2015 at 6:42 pm said:

B-t-w, what is wrong with all these womyn all dewy eyed about ‘moderate moooslimes’ and the this and the that? What is that all about?

What is this all about?

Standards and boundaries ladies!
junior on September 23, 2015 at 8:58 pm said:

The Westboro folks may not be Baptists, but they are Christians. Obviously, not very good ones, but they believe in the divinity of Christ and base their beliefs on the Bible.
—————-

Ann –

Maybe.

The Westboro people are former Democratic fundraisers. It’s entirely possible that the “church” only exists as a way to induce bigots to send money to the people who run it. After all, as former fundraisers the Westboro people would have a basic understanding of how to generate publicity for an organization, and use it to induce people to send them money.

At the very least, the kids (or grandkids – can’t remember) of the Westboro members who have left the congregation have had very negative things to say about the people running it.
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:49 pm said:

After 9-11 I was doing exactly what Bush should have done. I bought a copy of the Koran and learned what is in it, I engaged in intense discussions with a Muslim to find out how they perform exegesis on the Koran and what they believe, and I tried to place myself into the Muslims’ world view so I could understand the world as a Muslim understands it. Then I turned my attention to the history of Islam and tried to understand their history from their perspective and also from the perspective of their victims and dhimmis.

Bush II the executive of war policies and invasions, should have been reading the Koran. What exactly has more effect on the world, reading and thinking, or doing something first without the full picture?
Ymarsakar on September 23, 2015 at 9:54 pm said:

Or in other words, Dennis, you’re saying you did not take part in the public or private battles over Iraq, you were just in your own world doing research. Do I have that about right.

But how then do you get to declare to yourself all these judgments you’ve made about Iraq and the conflict over there if you were busy studying an ancient book written by a pedophile and conqueror? Was counter insurgency and AQ tactics explained well in the Koran? Were you able to win or accurately predict the outcomes of modern battles using the Koran?

The basis of your judgment, Dennis, assuming it doesn’t come from outside the bubble called the MSewerMedia propaganda network, is what Roosevelt was talking about.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

So Dennis, what were you actually doing back then between 2001 and 2008, the End of the American Golden Age?

In my opinion George Bush made a great deal of noise, spent a great deal of money, lost the lives of many American service men and women, and accomplished very little good in his so called “war on terror.”

So what were you doing, Dennis while Bush was losing a war, in your mental perspective.
G6loq on September 23, 2015 at 10:54 pm said:

Debate: Fiorina cut off Trump’s balls with surgical precision.
That’s quoting Rich Lowry. Bonus: hear La Kelly giggle in background….

Can’t make that up ….
parker on September 24, 2015 at 1:31 am said:

I see this thread has gone well beyond neo’s and fiorina’s rather narrow, imo, focus. I may be partially guilty of shifting the focus to a broader discussion about islam in general, however others have joined this broader discussion which I think is appropriate. The dangerous issue that too many dance around is not individual muslims each of us may know om a causual basis.

The issue, as others have noted, is that islam encourages believers to lie in order to inflitrate the societies of the infidels and supplant the host society’s most basic values as the opportunity arises. Given that all of Western Civilization has Quislings in offices high and low; is it any wonder that peasants like me have an eternal and deep seated distrust of moslems from Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and the rest of the islamic world being welcomed into our communities?

” I heard it was you talking about a world where all was free, it just couldn’t be, and only a fool would say that.”
Tom on September 24, 2015 at 6:34 am said:

The Constitution, as Carly said, allows any person of any religion to become President.
But did Carson say a Muslim could not become President, (factually wrong) or rather none should become President, his own opinion. Which I fully agree with.

Bush was wrong to falsely claim that Islam is the religion of “Peace”, it is the religion of “Submission”-to the will of Allah- according to some Caliph/ mullah or another.

Islamic Muslims do not agree with Freedom of Religion, the ability of Muslim raised person to leave Islam and convert.

No US politician, nor in Europe, should be supported who fails to support Freedom of Religion.

Note that Islam is intolerant of any non-Muslims even entering Mecca. Acceptance of such intolerance should have disallowed membership in the UN — but did not, because so many are Muslims.

In Europe, I would advocate all refugees signing documents renouncing particular Muslim intolerances, and be deported if their behavior changes.

The Islamic invasion is now more clearly occuring — is it too late to save the West? (Christian values, Market Capitalism in creating economic wealth)
Sharon W on September 24, 2015 at 11:08 am said:

The “carry-away” for me from Andy Mc Carthy’s book Willful Blindness (was there ever a better title?) was when he wrote that as lead prosecutor of the blind sheik, when he had “moderate Muslims” on the stand and asked about a point of Islam, they would demur and point to the Iman and say only he could answer. That is a HUGE divergence from western faiths. Ask any “moderate Christian or Jew” about a point of the faith and they will gladly offer their answer, or simply say, “I don’t know”.
Ymarsakar on September 25, 2015 at 9:12 pm said:

Sharon, and that is merely an earl or duke level religious leader with little to no secular power/land. Imagine what a full Caliph, with his secular and religious authority, would get from faithful Muslims.

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The New Neo

A blog about political change, among other things

Hey, I’ve got an idea: how about telling the truth?

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Hey, I’ve got an idea: how about telling the truth? — 98 Comments

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