Comments

Calling all Trump supporters — 39 Comments

1. You know, you almost believe him. And I do think Obama has made some terrible deals. ObamaCare for instance and the Iran Nuke Deal, and letting Russia take a large chunk of Ukraine, and anything regarding the Chinese. So let’s see his tax plan, let him make his case. I’m thinking any R that runs for President has gotta be better than any D. The local Ds here in Ann Arbor really believe that the economy is GREAT!. And ObamaCare is WONDERFUL. And subverting Congress is necessary! So I’ll just reserve judgement on Trump for now, but I’ll watch with interest.

2. MikeC:

   I don’t believe him, “almost” or otherwise.

   To me, it feels like a snake-oil salesman.

3. Not a Trump supporter, but so tired of his style, manner and generalities.

   Guy is too erratic to be President.

4. This should really be more about Scott Pelley, the hallowed Sixty Minutes, and the power of the questioner than about Trump.
   Media Questioners have immense power. They frame the discussion, always attack, put the interviewee on the defensive.
   Pelley attacks and attacks until he has Trump backed into a corner. Even Trump gets backed into a corner!
   Not everyone can be a Newt Gingrich. The media destroyed Romney, intentionally, and will do its best to destroy anyone who is opposed to the slimeballs of the Democratic party. You will wait an eternity before you will see them attack Hillary for her lies and corruption, or Sanders for his vote-buying idiotic platitudes. And Biden? Well, he is just so torn up about his son’s “tragic” death that he gets a pass.
   Puke.

5. Trump is the JV of presidential politics, but he is ready for prime time due to his outrageous personality. I continue to fail to understand how anyone takes him seriously as a candidate. Yet they do while simultaneously questioning the conservatism of other, far more credible candidates.

6. Frog, Trump has been throwing out promises without ever crunching the numbers or considering the downsides. I don’t care whether Pelley is a Dem or not, it is a journalist”s job to pin him down.

7. 1) I am looking over his tax plan, and it actually is starting to look pretty dang awesome. At first, it repelled me that people making less than $25k (single filers) would pay no tax. HOWEVER, if we go back to the original income tax, it was only supposed to apply to the wealthy.

   Also, for a couple filing jointly, this would me your first $50K income (after home mortgage deduction and charitable contributions) would be TAX FREE. Wow. That is amazing. I love it. It would save my family thousands in taxes, and we are on the upper reaches of what many would consider ‘middle class.’

   2) His sentiment on Obamacare and healthcare actually makes sense. Yes, Obamacare is terrible and we need to repeal it. But he is right, hospitals are suffering because they are forced to care for people even if they don’t have the ability to pay. Without some kind of payment system, hospitals lose millions of dollars every year…which ends up raising costs for those of us with insurance. I want to hear more about what Trump means by helping pay for the poor. We do have to do something. Maybe he means give them catastrophic healthcare plans at no cost. Or something else. We don’t know.

   3) He is not an idiot. That much is clear to me. He may not have an elegant way of speaking off the cuff, but that reminds me of myself. Doesn’t mean I don’t have good ideas in my head. I am just not good at expressing them verbally. Whenever he releases a paper, it is well thought-out. His book also had details that made sense and wasn’t all bluster and buffoonery…so I know he has a brain in there and is no dummy.

   Want to hear more. Hope he keeps rolling out the proposals.

8. I’ll take a swing at this one.

   I’m not a Trump supporter per se. But after glancing at the gist of what he said (sorry, too busy to dig in), I’m now …leaning.

   That said, something he said during the last (?) debate did catch my attention though.

   And I’ve been pondering it ever since.

   Roughly he said “I’m self funding. I’m paying my own way for my campaign. I’m not obligated to anyone.”

   Sooo …what you see/hear is what you get? No secrets? No surprises later? No hidden backroom deals?

   Intriguing.

   That seems …important. In a previously impossible way (during my lifetime, at least).

   Now, imagine the possibilities of …an honest “politician”.

   After all, the guy’s already as rich as Croesus. Why try and hide it?

   Who of everyone else running …everyone else! …isn’t beholden to gawd knows who and for what unpalatable (and likely unsavory) and unknowable-to-the-serfs reason?

   No. One.

   I long ago understood and accepted (having learned to accept the bad taste left in my mouth) politicians are ultimately in it for the money. Their primary concern is for their own self-gain.

   The Clintons are simply the most obvious example of political whoredom that springs to mind …but basically all politicians slurp at that same trough.

   Except …Trump?

   He doesn’t apparently have skin in that game.

   That’s …nice.

   Isn’t it?

   The consideration I’ve been giving that possibility (i.e., “what you see is what you get”) …and his rather serious tax plan earlier this morning (which makes his campaign less of a clown cavalcade romping merrily along) …makes him very, very attractive.

   To me. Politically, at least.

9. He’s a freaking nightmare. He obviously has no real plans for anything and has probably never read the Constitution. He has no experience with people working against him at all. He is a very scary guy. I do think strong measures are needed on immigration, starting with a big fat wall and a zero-tolerance program for illegal invaders, but Trump is never going to be able to pull any of this off. I know he’s rich, but I really don’t think he’s all that bright.

10. expat: you’re missing the point.
    A) The power of the questioner, the attack dog.
    B) Your job description of “journalist” is in error. A journalist is a self-appointed defender of only left-wing policies; journalists attack only on the right. Truth is relative, don’t you know?

    Welcome to post-modernism.

11. I wish that I was so not “all that bright” that I’d managed to increase my self-worth to several billions during the past few decades.

    In his case, that’s a nonsensical position to form the basis for an argument.

    “I don’t like him” would better serve (and be entirely acceptable).

    But implying Trump is stupid isn’t going to fly in the face of those intractable billions of reasons arguing against his “not-bright-ness”.

12. davisbr:

    I think many people who say Trump is “not that bright” are referring to the seeming lack of a certain type of brightness (academic type of speech, gravitas). I certainly don’t think he isn’t bright; I assume he is quite bright. He’s also clever, and especially good at marketing himself.

13. davisbr says:

    Who of everyone else running …everyone else! …isn’t beholden to gawd knows who and for what unpalatable (and likely unsavory) and unknowable-to-the-serfs reason?

    No. One.

    Dr. Ben Carson. He is not self-funding but he does have integrity. I wound’t say that about any of the rest, nor do I believe Trump has integrity. Delve into his bankruptcies and how he used eminent domain to steal property for a casino. None, absolutely none of his proposals would get through congress let alone actually work. How do you drop taxes to zero, lower the corporate rate from 35 to 15, and provide universal health care for all at “government” expense. The man is nothing more than a con artist.

14. Trump’s tax proposals are nothing more than his way of buying votes.

15. The Other Chuck:

    I agree that Trump is a con artist, as a politician. But I’d say that so far he’s been a very successful con artist.

    Obama is also a con artist. But he’s pulling a different con.

    Seems to me that American voters are more susceptible to con artists than they used to be, at least that I can remember in my lifetime.

16. The Other Chuck:
    The Donald does not, did not make the rules. He only plays the game. Successfully. Hostility rooted in envy is not the right way.

    You can accuse the Donald of many things, but pick the correct ones. Bankruptcies, eminent domain? Those are legislated and adjudicated matters.See Kelo. Aim your outrage at the proper target(s).

    Neo: see P.T. Barnum.

17. Frog:

    Re Trump and eminent domain—you are correct that it was the law, and as a businessman Trump used that law to benefit himself and his companies.

    However, he didn’t just make use of it. He promoted it and defended it and championed it and Kelo.

    See this, and this. He said he agreed with Kelo “100%.”

18. Seems to me that American voters are more susceptible to con artists than they used to be, at least that I can remember in my lifetime.

    They get what they deserve. No more human sacrifices to save the guilty from their sins. And what they will get won’t be better than what they deserve.

19. Hey all of you who are doubting his tax plan…I just read the whole thing on his website and found something amazing! He is going to give sole proprietorships and other small businesses that have to file their income along with their regular household income a whole new tax identification on your personal income tax form. Thank God!

    No more mixing my business income with my family’s household income and taxing it at exorbitant rates. Trump’s plan will allow me to separate my business income and tax it at the 15% business tax rate he is proposing.

    Anyone who owns a small business like mine gets what a huge boon this would be to the economy. Single-person small businesses, especially get hammered by being lumped in with the rest of household income.

    All of you who doubt, look at his plan. He is winning me over little by little. He may bluster on the podium, but he has solid ideas behind the bluster. The details are there, if you would only look.

    And, no, I don’t consider his tax plan ‘pandering’ any more than I considered another conservative candidate’s tax plan as ‘pandering.’ It’s just a tax plan. And, boy, would it help out a LOT of middle income Americans, would get rid of the EITC, would return the income tax to what it used to be: focused on the truly wealthy in this country.

    I have never heard of anyone creating a whole new tax system for sole proprietorships and micro-businesses like mine. It is sorely needed.

20. Oh, and one more thing…his comments about Obamacare. I am not sure what the fears are here. He is right…what do we do with people who have no health insurance? If hospitals are forced to treat these people, then we must figure out a way to help pay for it…this is why insurance rates and healthcare costs are going up. To cover the non-payers.

    Right now, Trump did not give details of what he is going to do, but if I read a bit between the lines…he did not say ‘universal healthcare.’ He only said we have to take care of these poor people and help them. Maybe he means a gov’t provided catastrophic healthcare plan. Maybe he means something else. We don’t know yet.

    Also, he did say that he would repeal Obamacare and give people lots and lots of choices…which also sounds to be like buying plans across state lines, doesn’t it? Which is a conservative platform.

    I would not judge until you see details. His tax plan is solid. Let’s see what else he comes up with.

21. Re: Carson.

    Integrity is very much in the eye of the beholder, when it comes to financing a modern political campaign, especially on (but not limited to) the national level.

    You may say Carson seems to have integrity (as seems so to me, too, btw …at least on a certain level …and by comparison), BUT …that money …that corrupting positively ungodly amount of money that is the life-blood of a campaign (do note that both Perry and Walker dropped out due to a lack of money), has to come from somewhere.

    Even for the [otherwise] virtuous.

    …which leads me to wonder (no: to doubt) if such integrity can hold, as the basis of a financially viable campaign.

    To wit, Carson.

    I have serious – and reasonable – doubts there.

    And “money” is the main point I am discussing …and so I tend to disregard an argument based upon Carson as “having integrity”, and contrast it with a “better the devil you know” observation about someone who is self-financing, and ask if that might not be of importance in a discussion).

    It is a point I [obviously] think well worth making.

    The very idea [of self-financing] seems quite unprecedented to me in modern national-level politics.

    So regardless, “integrity” is a different argument than being beholden, if you will.

    ____________
    I can (easily, and without being merely facile) make the argument that every politician is a con artist, inasmuch as I expect (and have rarely ever been disappointed …and not once in my experience of politics going back for well over a half century) them to lie about their intentions and motivations.

    (I could as easily – and do – make the observation that every career politician is a member in good standing of the “oldest profession”, but with an order of magnitude less integrity than the typically accepted members of that ancient profession.)

    Trump seems less the con artist (which, btw, I accept as a type of the suitable response to my observation of his statement about self-funding, and hence “on target”), than the huckster.

    I don’t really mind hucksters all that much.

    Especially compared to con artists.

    And I suspect that some, at least, of those of you describing him as a “con-artist” really mean “huckster” (giving your argument the benefit of doubt).

    It’s not exactly a subtle distinction.

    One is legit, especially in Yankee history. They’re genuine items of Americana …Yankee traders and all that. Br’er Foxes, if you will. Sometimes even …admirable.

    One is illegit’, breaking laws intentionally …with their “art” being the skill at the subterfuge they employ.

    They hurt people. Intentionally!

    I posit – as a priori – that all career politicians are con-“artistes” of varying degrees of skill and immorality.

    Trump?

    Maybe.

    Everyone else?

    Certainly.

22. K-E:

    Aside from the sole proprietorship change you mention, how do you think Trump’s plan is an improvement over the other candidates’ plans (such as, just to take some examples, Jeb Bush’s or Rubio’s)? Have you read those and compared?

    And what do you think of the fact that Trump’s plan would remove more and more people from the necessity to pay taxes, thus increasing the “no skin in the game” problem? And to me, it seems as though there would be a revenue problem with this plan.

    Of course, any tax plan is merely a statement. Tax plans have to be passed by Congress.

23. I meant B’rer Rabbits of course.

    …one of those days.

24. …a compendium of various analyses of the Trump plan, including some comparisons to the other offerings:

    TaxProf Blog: Trump’s Tax Plan: ‘Tax Reform That Will Make America Great Again’

    …with links for EZ access.

    Quick observation: all the plans are described as roughly comparable, with the devil being in the details.

    So if you like Jeb’s or Rubio’s or ??’s, you’ll not be all that surprised (or disappointed) by Trump’s version.

25. even at the start… 0% taxes are a bad idea…. everyone needs to pay something….

26. Trump’s real ‘problem’ is the old Trump.

    The press is biding its time knowing that they can gun him down during the actual campaign — AFTER the nomination.

    On policy and merit, I’m fine with Fiorina and Carson — I just think they can’t possibly win as the head of the ticket.

    Neither has held elective office. That’s a horrific handicap. The only fellas that can get their in a single bound are war-hero generals.

    Washington
    Jackson — had LOTS of prior political activity…
    Taylor
    Pierce
    Grant
    Eisenhower

    They’d be killer a VP on a GOP ticket.

    Cruz figures to be the last man standing.

    He’s perfect at the head of a ticket.

    Rubio simply looks too youthful, which is a staggering liability at the head of a ticket.

    The Democrat competition consists of two drunks and a wacko.

    Right now the big money is on the alcoholics.

    Both Jeb and Donald are easy meat for the media, though Trump is proving to be far more difficult to ruffle than expected.

    I see Jerry Brown as a Democrat dark horse — after Biden dithers to death and HRC takes another couple of rounds to the pelvis, the death of ten-thousand she-mails.

    And she’s yet to face her lover’s treachery: Humma.Abedin Weiner, Muslim Brotherhood operative.

    ( My PC went on the fritz after posting her name. The cyber police are on the watch. Here’s to you Google. )

27. SLR says:

    even at the start… 0% taxes are a bad idea…. everyone needs to pay something….

    I agree. Carson favors what appears to be a modified flat tax, something on the order of a government equivalent tithe. I don’t know how practical it is or if it could get through a congress on the payroll of so many special interests. But it is a very MORAL plan.

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2015/08/12/dr-ben-carsons-10-flat-tax-plan/

    —————————————————————–

    Neo: Obama is also a con artist. But he’s pulling a different con. So true.

28. If I understand it correctly, Trump’s tax plan isn’t that much different from Jeb’s. It is a simplification of the current mess and would incentivize business to invest in the US instead of overseas. For all his BS about China stealing our jobs, the real problem is the US tax system encourages businesses to go offshore.

    A second problem is that the immigration laws let businesses import cheap labor from overseas on H-1B visas to work in the tech industry, to the detriment of US citizens. Trump addresses that in his immigration position paper where he propose a minimum salary for H-1B visa holders. Having seen first-hand how corporations, including non-profits, use H-1B to save money, I know Trump is on the right track. I rather doubt any money is saved. Only a few of the H-1B’s I managed were worth hiring.

29. i.e. the tax plan and the healthcare plan.

    Everybody needs to have some skin in the game. That’s why our current healthcare costs are out of control – too many people are immunized to healthcare costs. Same thing with taxes – the problem of the welfare state is that too many people are immunized to the taxes.

    I don’t care so much if it’s a token payment, but everybody needs to have some tiny pinch of skin in the game or the Price Signal system doesn’t work.

30. I don’t listen to MSM propaganda or the enemy’s sweet sweet voice of reason.

    There’s a problem when you do that, you see.

31. even at the start… 0% taxes are a bad idea…. everyone needs to pay something….

    True, but that doesn’t have to be taxes that get laundered 99 times before it even reaches the IRS and government budgets.

    Educating children, forming armies to defend the faithful, all are important critical activities in a civilization. The issue is that when the culture is dominated by the Left, you get to do only one thing, pay the Mafia off or else.

32. The taxes Mr. Trump is talking about are federal. This approach will leave lots more wiggle room for states to tailor their taxes to their needs. Is this not the whole purpose of a federal/state system?

33. I come here for the Trump bashing and stay for the cookies. There are cookies, right?

    I really have a hard time understanding what people don’t like about a non-politician, not financially beholden to the eGOPs, becoming president. What, people think only lawyers or career ‘chowing down at the public trough’ politicians are worthy of being president? Hell, after King Barry the Munificent’s presidency, I’d vote for a Little Orphan Annie doll over any proggie (Dem or RINO).

    Truth be told, Trump has started many badly needed national conversations on topics no other politician has gone near in decades. I guaran-damn-tee these national conversations would not be happening without a Trump presidential run.

    Do I trust Trump? No, I trust no one running for the presidency precisely because they want to be president. I’d rather have a national lottery pick our President than the sad sack pieces of shit we now end up having to choose between on election day.

    I am all for a non-politician, especially a non-lawyer politician, becoming president. (Fiorina and Carson are also non-eGOP candidates, as is Cruz [but him being a lawyer is a black mark].) People serving their Country in government, then going home after a short time, used to be the norm before Political Science became a college major, which is a degree akin to an Education degree where one learns how to teach, not what to teach. Also, there used to be term limits back when the Country was founded: It was called ‘short life expectancy’.

    Trump has been successful. Yes, he has used the rules to his advantage. But those who complain about his corporate bankruptcies do not understand business. He had some companies declare bankruptcy, but he himself has not personally declared bankruptcy. But even if Trump had declared personal bankruptcy, so what? The great men with their great inventions/discoveries were pretty much all failures at one point in their lives. (The only success Oblowme has is destroying this Country. But we all know it takes more effort to build than to destroy.) Failure can breed success, unless you use your failure to start some stupid hashtag ‘victim’ movement.

    At least with Trump, should there be Failure Kabuki Theater, it will be entertaining. I am tired of pompously being lectured to by our ahistorical ‘Constitutional scholar’ (whose only study of the Constitution is how to destroy it).

    But keep banging that anti-Trump drum. I mean, let’s face it, all the other eGOP and Dem/commie candidates are so endearing and engender so much trust. We can have Joey Choo-Chho, the paste eater, or Hillarity!, a criminal who thinks the law does not apply to her (and if she doesn’t end up indicted, she is, sadly, correct), or Princess Lieawatha, the fake Indian, or Bernie, the self-proclaimed socialist (props for honesty), or Jeb!, who wants to be president of Mexico, or . . . .

    Remember: The proggies (pols, media and academia) will tell you who they fear by their vituperative and ad hominem attacks on a particular candidate. Trump promises to upend their cozy little apple carts. I’m good with that.

34. I guaran-damn-tee these national conversations would not be happening without a Trump presidential run.

    They were already happening online without Trump. He didn’t start them.

    It is very easy to notice the pattern over the last few years from 2007 starting on.

    What people really think is that once they place Trump on the Throne of America, that there will be a way to control him or oust him. But what people don’t realize is that kings, once you install them, aren’t that easy to remove, especially after the Age of Hussein.

35. Remember: The proggies (pols, media and academia) will tell you who they fear by their vituperative and ad hominem attacks on a particular candidate. Trump promises to upend their cozy little apple carts. I’m good with that.

    Lazy strategists depend on the Left to tell them what to do. Even though the Left projects 99% of the time, that doesn’t mean a good strategist merely bases their entire plan on the enemy’s reactions.

    This kind of lazy strategic planning is what leads people to not notice the forest because they are staring at the dirt underneath a single tree. But then again, if Americans were capable of higher stage planning, we wouldn’t be where we are right now.

36. Ymarsakar Says:

    They were already happening online without Trump. He didn’t start them.

    I said ‘national conversation’. On-line is not the same as the mainstream Fellatio Media having this, most definitely unwanted by them, conversation on their ‘news’ networks or in their ‘news’papers.

    Lazy strategists depend on the Left to tell them what to do. Even though the Left projects 99% of the time, that doesn’t mean a good strategist merely bases their entire plan on the enemy’s reactions.

    I guess you’re all in for Senor Yeb!, our first Mexican president.

    But seriously, I have no idea what the fuck you mean by this authentic gibberish.

37. Well that formatting sucked. Trying again. (Where oh where is my edit button since the preview function doesn’t work for me?)

    Ymarsakar Says:

    They were already happening online without Trump. He didn’t start them.

    I said ‘national conversation’. On-line is not the same as the mainstream Fellatio Media having this, most definitely unwanted by them, conversation on their ‘news’ networks or in their ‘news’papers.

    Lazy strategists depend on the Left to tell them what to do. Even though the Left projects 99% of the time, that doesn’t mean a good strategist merely bases their entire plan on the enemy’s reactions.

    I guess you’re all in for Senor Yeb!, our first Mexican president.

    But seriously, I have no idea what the fuck you mean by this authentic gibberish.

38. RickZ:

    We were having a “national conversation” on amnesty and illegals before Trump. It began last summer, with the influx of child/teen illegal “migrants.” It was a big, big deal. Actually, it began a bit earlier, when Obama issued his executive order on it, but the “conversation” reached a fever pitch last summer.

    In fact, even some of my liberal friends were perturbed.

39. We’ve never had the public involved in such a national conversation about illegal immigration than as now. Oh sure, it’s been mentioned before, heck, we even had this problem under Bush and burned the phone lines to DC to get that amnesty crap cancelled. But we have never had the ‘full frontal’ coverage we are getting now. Mostly because we never had someone of prominence, and running for president has helped his prominence, speak out against amnesty like Trump has. Of course, having a dead body crop up (fall down?) after Trump criticized the illegals did not hurt his cause; that was icing on the cake. Now we have plenty of presidential candidates talking about illegal immigration. I cannot remember this happening before.

    I still say we would not be having this conversation, or have it last so long with our Memory Hole Media, if not for Trump. And Barry, of course. He has doubled down on fundamental transformation of this country by importing a whole new replacement ‘citizenry’, a new ‘citizenry’ not tainted by that TEA Party and loving the Constitution crap but rather aspiring to be the new slaves on the Democrat Gub’mint Handouts Plantation.

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