Great, now I have the SNL earworm “I love Sodom!” with me for the rest of the day. 🙂
Soon to be a major resort.
Cornhead: Are you kidding? The Clinton Foundation has already made a bid on it!
If so, the timing would appear to be literally biblical in its appropriateness. That timing and its possible implications will of course be lost to the majority.
You should look up what Mystery Babylon is.
Like a lot of the biblical stories, the one about Sodom is fascinating and very hard to understand.
Talk about the aggressive pursuit of the homosexual agenda! The crowd outside Lot’s home refused the pleasures of his virgin daughters. The angels inside must have been GQ level good looking.
The failure to find ten honest men is immediately identifiable with an utterly corrupt society. Is the super-ordination of homosexual desire a necessary indication of the corruption?
And like a lot of what God does, turning Lot’s wife into salt for failing to obey the command not to look back, seems excessive.
The event which was the objective circumstance would explain it all, maybe as failure to exercise caution in the face a specific type of threat, but it has acquired moral overtones which are just more puzzling.
I look at the Bible and try to think of it as primitive people being shown visions that they don’t understand, so they try to word it in a way that makes sense to them.
That’s a tentative assumption that Revealed Truth is actually in the Bible, which there is a chance that it is not. Revealed Truth is that God inspired what was written in the Bible, either through the hands of prophets or miracles. Slightly different from the Mohammed religion that believes God wrote the Koran directly, using Mohammed as a pen.
A lot of the stuff in the Bible could also be part of the telephone game. It gets distorted if it gets passed around a few times, without people understanding what they are seeing or hearing.
As for historical details, of course there are historical details. Only atheists think the Bible was some made up book about non existent events, and that’s because atheists are part of a different religion which rejects the Bible, using their missionary protocols and war like atheist mannerisms. If atheism was merely an individual being skeptical, it would be one thing, but atheism is its own religion like the Gaia cult or the Leftist death cult. They are too hypocritical for me to take seriously. Maybe when they stop the hypocrisy their “religious texts” and commandments will be more credible to me.
Calling Tall el-Hammam, Sodom, is highly speculative. There is apparently a legitimate dig going on there but the links provided go through an article by Rick Moran in Pajamas Media which further links to a youtube video put up by a group called CircumciseYourHeart. That video features an amateur archaeologist named Ron Wyatt whose training and career was as an anesthetist. Ron made many fantastic claims which so far haven’t been verified. He is now dead. The real archaeologist who has been excavating at Tall el-Hammam for Tall el-Hammam since 2005 is named Steven Collins P.H.D. He teaches at a small Bible College in Albuquerque, NM called Trinity Southwest University.
I found a three years old blog about the site which described the problems making a positive identification of this site as Sodom.
Looks like a good casino-resort for project for Trump, after he loses the election.
Neo from March 2013 on the Genesis story of Sodom:
And I see the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as expressing a cultural truth about anything-goes societies, which is that unbridled sexual license is part and parcel of a spiraling multifaceted decline in that society as a whole into more general chaos and amorality, especially as regards the rearing of the next generation. Which comes first–the specifically sexual license or the more generalized decline–is unclear, although I happen to think it’s the latter, and that each feeds into and amplifies the other.
License for what?
Rape is unbridled sexual license and the guys standing outside Lot’s door were intent on raping the angels. Lot offered his virgin daughters confirming the sexual nature at the crux of the story.
If the crowd had accepted would the result have been rape according to the then current standards? Or merely men making a manly compromise? IOW would it have become a story in the Bible with a point?
The story of Judah and Tamar (also fascinating and also – – for me – – hard to understand) is about sexual morality and its connection to procreation. The mistake about Tamar being a temple prostitute instead of the woman entitled to get impregnated by Judah’s third son, shows the meaning of sex.
I am not quite certain what the meaning is, but know it is important on how and why sex happens. And it is not, as leftists so bizarrely believe, about the sex itself.
At first, this quote from The Real Thing by Stoppard may seem like an endorsement of unbiased romantic love:
It’s to do with knowing and being known. I remember how it stopped seeming odd that in biblical Greek knowing was used for making love. Whosit knew so-and-so. Carnal knowledge. It’s what lovers trust each other with. Knowledge of each other, not of the flesh but through the flesh, knowledge of self, the real him, the real her, in extremis, the mask slipped from the face. Every other version of oneself is on offer to the public. We share our vivacity, grief, sulks, anger, joy … we hand it out to anybody who happens to be standing around, to friends and family with a momentary sense of indecency perhaps, to strangers without hesitation. Our lovers share us with the passing trade. But in pairs we insist that we give ourselves to each other. What selves? What’s left? What else is there that hasn’t been dealt out like a pack of cards? Carnal knowledge. Personal, final, uncompromised. Knowing, being known. I revere that. Having that is being rich, you can be generous about what’s shared — she walks, she talks, she laughs, she lends a sympathetic ear, she kicks off her shoes and dances on the tables, she’s everybody’s and it don’t mean a thing, let them eat cake; knowledge is something else, the undealt card, and while it’s held it makes you free-and-easy and nice to know, and when it’s gone everything is pain. Every single thing. Every object that meets the eye, a pencil, a tangerine, a travel poster. As if the physical world has been wired up to pass a current back to the part of your brain where imagination glows like a filament in a lobe no bigger than a torch bulb. Pain.
Is sex the doorway to more than sex, or is it just more sex?
What are children?
Not to say Neo’s point is inconsistent or wrong: “Which comes first–the specifically sexual license or the more generalized decline–is unclear, although I happen to think it’s the latter, and that each feeds into and amplifies the other.” It is a wonderful observation.
Honesty, integrity, logic, objectivity, human nature and compassion all reflect on every human and every human organization.
“The anecdotal evidence is strong that a very large city-state was destroyed very suddenly somewhere near the first millennium BC. Perhaps if this find proves out to be Sodom, they can decipher what caused its destruction.”
Bible, Torah, also Quran telling is stories of those people did not follow the messengers so God Distraction finish them, what else would be?
What’s truly sad is the difficulty archaeologists have in getting permits to dig in many parts of the Muslim Middle East. The Muslims are terrified that proof will be unearthed that shows the Hebrews had any claim at all to the land of Israel, and sites along the Jordan River especially are usually made unavailable to scientists.
These claims have some basis for it if you are from ME region although may be some stories fake but I can tell one, by Japanese archaeological team went to Iraq in late 70s or early 80s for a excavations on one site there. Then one man who was onsite discovered that archaeological team member he was so skilled and fast while he digging in place he making exactly similar item and he keep/hid the original and give back the fake one to authorities?
That team was band and asked to leave the site immediately to Japan.
So as for Hebrews had any claim at all to the land of Israel there is some ground to it and the excavations in Jerusalem is so clear and supportive for Israel
The angles said, “O Lot, indeed we are messengers of your Lord; [therefore], they will never reach you. So set out with your family during a portion of the night and let not any among you look back —except your wife; indeed, she will be struck by that which strikes them, indeed, their appointment is [for] the morning. Is not the morning near?
neo…
The Discovery Channel aired a piece recently on this tel.
The crux of the argument is that this particular tel abounds in trinitite, a very odd material, indeed.
Prior to atomic blasts the only possible source for the intense heat required would be a meteor.
The remarkable quantity of trinitie discovered dovetails perfectly with the Biblical account, as the flash of doom in both cases falls from the heavens.
The heat flash was well past 4000 degrees — yet so brief that it only transformed the outer layers of various pottery, giving the visible impression of glazing, centuries before that process was discovered.
Beyond trinitite the massive gate structure depicted in the Bible has been unearthed. It was and is huge, far beyond anything discovered dating to that era.
The blast was so astounding that it snuffed out all life for a tremendous distance. The implication was that the entire region became tabooed for centuries.
The bit about Lot’s wife looking back is but fable. If you were too close it wouldn’t matter which way you looked. And the heat burst is from on high — not ground level at all.
The heat burst would’ve been witnessed from a staggering distance. Naturally, the consequential fire would’ve been all consuming. At the right time of the year, the heat would’ve lit the crops in the fields.
In sum, the gates, the trinitite, are overwhelming evidence that this tel is the Biblical Sodom. Much of the Biblical account has been edited through the ages into a morality tale.
Offering up ones virginal daughter is over the top, an embellishment to rationalize the celestial punishment.
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Great, now I have the SNL earworm “I love Sodom!” with me for the rest of the day. 🙂
Soon to be a major resort.
Cornhead: Are you kidding? The Clinton Foundation has already made a bid on it!
If so, the timing would appear to be literally biblical in its appropriateness. That timing and its possible implications will of course be lost to the majority.
You should look up what Mystery Babylon is.
Like a lot of the biblical stories, the one about Sodom is fascinating and very hard to understand.
Talk about the aggressive pursuit of the homosexual agenda! The crowd outside Lot’s home refused the pleasures of his virgin daughters. The angels inside must have been GQ level good looking.
The failure to find ten honest men is immediately identifiable with an utterly corrupt society. Is the super-ordination of homosexual desire a necessary indication of the corruption?
And like a lot of what God does, turning Lot’s wife into salt for failing to obey the command not to look back, seems excessive.
The event which was the objective circumstance would explain it all, maybe as failure to exercise caution in the face a specific type of threat, but it has acquired moral overtones which are just more puzzling.
Tonawanda:
My theory of Sodom and Gomorrah is here.
I look at the Bible and try to think of it as primitive people being shown visions that they don’t understand, so they try to word it in a way that makes sense to them.
That’s a tentative assumption that Revealed Truth is actually in the Bible, which there is a chance that it is not. Revealed Truth is that God inspired what was written in the Bible, either through the hands of prophets or miracles. Slightly different from the Mohammed religion that believes God wrote the Koran directly, using Mohammed as a pen.
A lot of the stuff in the Bible could also be part of the telephone game. It gets distorted if it gets passed around a few times, without people understanding what they are seeing or hearing.
As for historical details, of course there are historical details. Only atheists think the Bible was some made up book about non existent events, and that’s because atheists are part of a different religion which rejects the Bible, using their missionary protocols and war like atheist mannerisms. If atheism was merely an individual being skeptical, it would be one thing, but atheism is its own religion like the Gaia cult or the Leftist death cult. They are too hypocritical for me to take seriously. Maybe when they stop the hypocrisy their “religious texts” and commandments will be more credible to me.
Calling Tall el-Hammam, Sodom, is highly speculative. There is apparently a legitimate dig going on there but the links provided go through an article by Rick Moran in Pajamas Media which further links to a youtube video put up by a group called CircumciseYourHeart. That video features an amateur archaeologist named Ron Wyatt whose training and career was as an anesthetist. Ron made many fantastic claims which so far haven’t been verified. He is now dead. The real archaeologist who has been excavating at Tall el-Hammam for Tall el-Hammam since 2005 is named Steven Collins P.H.D. He teaches at a small Bible College in Albuquerque, NM called Trinity Southwest University.
I found a three years old blog about the site which described the problems making a positive identification of this site as Sodom.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/09/29/have-archaeologists-uncovered-the-ruins-of-sodom/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2xv3XwOVaQ
http://trinitysouthwest.com/steven-collins-phd-dean-distinguished-professor-of-archaeology/
http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2012/01/biblical-problems-with-locating-sodom.html
Looks like a good casino-resort for project for Trump, after he loses the election.
Neo from March 2013 on the Genesis story of Sodom:
License for what?
Rape is unbridled sexual license and the guys standing outside Lot’s door were intent on raping the angels. Lot offered his virgin daughters confirming the sexual nature at the crux of the story.
If the crowd had accepted would the result have been rape according to the then current standards? Or merely men making a manly compromise? IOW would it have become a story in the Bible with a point?
The story of Judah and Tamar (also fascinating and also – – for me – – hard to understand) is about sexual morality and its connection to procreation. The mistake about Tamar being a temple prostitute instead of the woman entitled to get impregnated by Judah’s third son, shows the meaning of sex.
I am not quite certain what the meaning is, but know it is important on how and why sex happens. And it is not, as leftists so bizarrely believe, about the sex itself.
At first, this quote from The Real Thing by Stoppard may seem like an endorsement of unbiased romantic love:
Is sex the doorway to more than sex, or is it just more sex?
What are children?
Not to say Neo’s point is inconsistent or wrong: “Which comes first–the specifically sexual license or the more generalized decline–is unclear, although I happen to think it’s the latter, and that each feeds into and amplifies the other.” It is a wonderful observation.
Honesty, integrity, logic, objectivity, human nature and compassion all reflect on every human and every human organization.
“The anecdotal evidence is strong that a very large city-state was destroyed very suddenly somewhere near the first millennium BC. Perhaps if this find proves out to be Sodom, they can decipher what caused its destruction.”
Bible, Torah, also Quran telling is stories of those people did not follow the messengers so God Distraction finish them, what else would be?
What’s truly sad is the difficulty archaeologists have in getting permits to dig in many parts of the Muslim Middle East. The Muslims are terrified that proof will be unearthed that shows the Hebrews had any claim at all to the land of Israel, and sites along the Jordan River especially are usually made unavailable to scientists.
These claims have some basis for it if you are from ME region although may be some stories fake but I can tell one, by Japanese archaeological team went to Iraq in late 70s or early 80s for a excavations on one site there. Then one man who was onsite discovered that archaeological team member he was so skilled and fast while he digging in place he making exactly similar item and he keep/hid the original and give back the fake one to authorities?
That team was band and asked to leave the site immediately to Japan.
So as for Hebrews had any claim at all to the land of Israel there is some ground to it and the excavations in Jerusalem is so clear and supportive for Israel
بسم الرØمن الرØيم
Ùَلَمَّا ذَهَبَ عَنْ Ø¥ÙبْرَاهÙيمَ الرَّوْع٠وَجَاءَتْه٠الْبÙشْرَىٰ ÙŠÙجَادÙÙ„Ùنَا ÙÙÙŠ قَوْم٠لÙوط٠﴿٧٤﴾ Ø¥Ùنَّ Ø¥ÙبْرَاهÙيمَ Ù„ÙŽØÙŽÙ„Ùيمٌ أَوَّاهٌ مّÙÙ†Ùيبٌ ﴿٧٥﴾ يَا Ø¥ÙبْرَاهÙيم٠أَعْرÙضْ عَنْ هَـٰذَا Û– Ø¥Ùنَّه٠قَدْ جَاءَ أَمْر٠رَبÙّكَ Û– ÙˆÙŽØ¥ÙنَّهÙمْ آتÙيهÙمْ عَذَابٌ غَيْر٠مَرْدÙود٠﴿٧٦﴾ وَلَمَّا جَاءَتْ رÙسÙÙ„Ùنَا Ù„Ùوطًا سÙيءَ بÙÙ‡Ùمْ وَضَاقَ بÙÙ‡Ùمْ ذَرْعًا وَقَالَ هَـٰذَا يَوْمٌ عَصÙيبٌ ﴿٧٧﴾ وَجَاءَه٠قَوْمÙÙ‡Ù ÙŠÙهْرَعÙونَ Ø¥Ùلَيْه٠وَمÙÙ† قَبْل٠كَانÙوا يَعْمَلÙونَ السَّيÙّئَات٠ۚ قَالَ يَا قَوْم٠هَـٰؤÙلَاء٠بَنَاتÙÙŠ Ù‡Ùنَّ أَطْهَر٠لَكÙمْ Û– ÙَاتَّقÙوا اللَّـهَ وَلَا تÙخْزÙون٠ÙÙÙŠ ضَيْÙÙÙŠ Û– أَلَيْسَ Ù…ÙنكÙمْ رَجÙÙ„ÙŒ رَّشÙيدٌ ﴿٧٨﴾ قَالÙوا لَقَدْ عَلÙمْتَ مَا لَنَا ÙÙÙŠ بَنَاتÙÙƒÙŽ Ù…Ùنْ ØÙŽÙ‚ÙÙ‘ ÙˆÙŽØ¥Ùنَّكَ لَتَعْلَم٠مَا Ù†ÙرÙيد٠﴿٧٩﴾ قَالَ لَوْ أَنَّ Ù„ÙÙŠ بÙÙƒÙمْ Ù‚Ùوَّةً أَوْ آوÙÙŠ Ø¥Ùلَىٰ رÙكْن٠شَدÙيد٠﴿٨٠﴾
سورة هود
The angles said, “O Lot, indeed we are messengers of your Lord; [therefore], they will never reach you. So set out with your family during a portion of the night and let not any among you look back —except your wife; indeed, she will be struck by that which strikes them, indeed, their appointment is [for] the morning. Is not the morning near?
neo…
The Discovery Channel aired a piece recently on this tel.
The crux of the argument is that this particular tel abounds in trinitite, a very odd material, indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
Prior to atomic blasts the only possible source for the intense heat required would be a meteor.
The remarkable quantity of trinitie discovered dovetails perfectly with the Biblical account, as the flash of doom in both cases falls from the heavens.
The heat flash was well past 4000 degrees — yet so brief that it only transformed the outer layers of various pottery, giving the visible impression of glazing, centuries before that process was discovered.
Beyond trinitite the massive gate structure depicted in the Bible has been unearthed. It was and is huge, far beyond anything discovered dating to that era.
The blast was so astounding that it snuffed out all life for a tremendous distance. The implication was that the entire region became tabooed for centuries.
The bit about Lot’s wife looking back is but fable. If you were too close it wouldn’t matter which way you looked. And the heat burst is from on high — not ground level at all.
The heat burst would’ve been witnessed from a staggering distance. Naturally, the consequential fire would’ve been all consuming. At the right time of the year, the heat would’ve lit the crops in the fields.
In sum, the gates, the trinitite, are overwhelming evidence that this tel is the Biblical Sodom. Much of the Biblical account has been edited through the ages into a morality tale.
Offering up ones virginal daughter is over the top, an embellishment to rationalize the celestial punishment.