The media that was decidedly uncurious about Obama’s past…
…has nevertheless become obsessed with nitpicking at everything that has ever emanated from Ben Carson’s mouth or his pen.
It would be another thing if everyone was subject to the same level of scrutiny, but it’s not even close. This is the equivalent of reporters parking near Palin’s house and going through her garbage, while at the same time giving Obama a pass on every lie he ever uttered, including his assertion that he sat in mentor Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years without hearing any of the hate-filled and radical remarks that were his stock in trade.
Carson isn’t my first choice as a candidate, but I like him and he was doing well (that’s why all of this is being unearthed now; because he’s doing well). I wonder how much this will hurt him. It’s the equivalent of the sort of exaggeration almost every politician engages in (perhaps I should make it every politician). He said that he had an offer of a scholarship from West Point, and it was assumed that he meant a formal offer rather than an informal one. The latter appears to have been the case, but he never corrected the record on that.
[NOTE: Remember Biden’s plagiarism? It fell down the memory hole, too; didn’t seem to hurt him one whit as a candidate for Vice President.]
ADDENDUM: See this. I suggest you read the whole thing, but here are some excerpts:
When, if ever, has Carson claimed he actually applied and was admitted to West Point?
The lede [to the Politico hit piece] says Carson has claimed to have both applied and been admitted to West Point, and Cheney [the author of the piece] reports West Point has no record of him applying or being admitted. But quotes drawn from two of Carson’s books, as well as statements from his campaign, do not support Cheney’s claim…
Has Politico somehow verified what Westmoreland promised Carson in that conversation?
Carson’s story, as quoted in Cheney’s piece, is that Westmoreland “opened doors” and offered him a “full scholarship” to West Point, and that he considered the offer but ultimately “did not seek admission.” Has Politico somehow verified whether Westmoreland, who is now deceased, made the offer?
Carson spokesman Ben Watts attacked the story, telling The Daily Caller News Foundation, “The Politico story is an outright lie. Dr. Carson as the leading ROTC student in Detroit was told by his commanders that he could get an appointment to the academy. He never said he was admitted or even applied.”
Will these facts matter? The story is out there. Most people aren’t going to analyze it to that extent. My initial impression, before I read the Daily Caller article I’m quoting in this addendum, was very similar to what it is saying: Carson was talking about Westmoreland’s verbal offer, not some official offer of a full scholarship. I haven’t gone over all of Carson’s utterances and writings on the subject, but that’s my impression from the quotes I’ve seen, including those in the Politico hit piece, which I would assume contain the most incriminating ones.
But once the accusation is out there, it has a life of its own. That’s the point; that’s why the media works so hard on going through everything an opponent has said in order to locate some sort of vulnerability it can then exploit.
ADDENDUM II: Also see the update here:
Liberal (but often reasonable) reporter Dave Wiegel notes this — three months ago, Ben Carson said he had only applied to one school.
Yet Politico claims that Carson claimed in “Gifted Hands” that he applied to West Point — which he never claimed.
ADDENDUM III: See also this and this.
And pay particular attention to this:
(1) The headline is misleading. The Carson campaign statement does not admit he fabricated anything. Here’s the statement: “Dr. Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit,” campaign manager Barry Bennett wrote in an email to POLITICO. “In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer. He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors,” Bennett added. “They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission.”
(2) The lede is outright false. Politico’s Kyle D. Cheney starts with this claim: “Ben Carson’s campaign on Friday admitted, in a response to an inquiry from POLITICO, that a central point in his inspirational personal story was fabricated: his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.” But no where in the piece does Cheney tell the reader where Carson made this “application and acceptance” claim.
(3) It is, of course, very easy to show that Carson never applied to or was accepted to West Point, if in fact he never applied. Thus, the entire piece hinges on this missing piece of information: where and when did Carson say that he applied to and was accepted to Westpoint?
Read the whole thing. It’s not long.]
I don’t even get why this ‘scholarship’ thing is a story. It’s ridiculous.
Dr. Carson was involved with the ROTC as a kid.
He actually did meet this general at an event.
Dr. Carson at the time would’ve been a highly valued prospective student for West Point
I am 100% certain this topic would’ve come up when these two met.
Even if a scholarship wasn’t offered and he didn’t apply, I can believe that the scholarship was brought up and that Dr. Carson would most certainly be offered a spot at West Point if he were interested.
To me, there is no lie, no fabrication. This is just stupid. Same for the CNN attack on his story about violence in his youth. The press is trying very hard to bring this man down. I hope he keeps pressing on past this junk. Carson deserves to continue through the primary process and see what voters think.
The cold fact is that he lied; and he continued to lie. It does not matter how trivial the lie was. This will be a big story, and it will be devastating. There is blood on the water.
I do not understand why intelligent, accomplished people feel the need to embellish resumes that are already impressive. But, it happens repeatedly. Moreover, so many seem to either forget that they did so, or hope no one will notice as they enter the media spotlight. Doesn’t work well.
Dr Carson was not my choice as a candidate; but, I had great respect for him. That will continue, but there is a level of disappointment.
This may not work well for the GOP. Trump may garner even more attention as the clear front runner. Come on Iowa, come on New Hampshire, come on South Carolina; restore some sense and order to this circus.
K-E:
Ah, but if you look at the comments at blogs on the right, some people feel this really calls his integrity into question.
Now, I’m not sure who those people are. They might be trolls from the left pretending to be on the right. They may be Trump supporters. Or they may be what they purport to be, Carson supporters who are having doubts. Carson’s problem is that his veracity, his utter and complete veracity, is so much a part of his persona that any chink in it, any flaw however minor, can turn someone away from him (I think, anyway).
I have been thinking over the last few days why this bothers me so much, other than the unfairness aspect of a playing field that is not level. That offends any sense of justice, but we all know that it is an unfair world and sometimes journalists and even authorities are not even-handed.
Yet I remain angry, incident after incident, and I am clearly not the only one. I would think repetition would make it more dull, not more sharp.
Here is my thought: Obama, and Hillary, and progressives in general, are lying to their own people. Conservatives have long not believed them, and they are not even trying to convinced them. The few who are in charge know these things are lies (Jonathan Gruber), yet they know they can fool enough people that they can use that they can roll over their opposition. This is how they treat their friends.
This leads to the conclusion that there is no bottom. And that is what scares me.
the election is a done deal now…
end of story… the rest is just noise
kabuki theater writ large..
hillary is the next president
other than trump or carson, the others would make it worse… despite what people may think, they are all on board for more immigration and such games, and not against it much at all.
carson is easier to slam than trump
trump is not liked as we dont like agressive men who act like men
game
set
match
I see from the link that Ace of Spades is calling it “loose language”. Well, perhaps. I do not know how you interpret “a full scholarship followed”. When Carson wrote that, he was a mature and knowledgeable adult; so he should know the difference between dinner table conversation and a scholarship offer–he had experienced those from other institutions.
Nevertheless. I retract my statement that he lied and did so repeatedly. (although some reports say he continued to make the claim in his campaign speeches) I will leave it at this; he made a huge mistake, and I think it will be a costly one.
Oldflyer:
But did he lie?
This happened a long time ago. People actually DO misremember details of things like that. What’s more, he kept saying he had an “offer.” Was Westmoreland’s statement an offer? I’m not so sure we can call Carson’s statement a lie rather than a slight exaggeration. What’s an offer? Does it have to be a formal offer? As you tell a story over the years, you usually tell it in a shorthand version, and details can become muddled. I’m not saying that to excuse him; it’s true, it happens all the time. Ordinarily people don’t take notes about their lives when the things are happening, and details of their own lives become somewhat unclear. Is this really anything like the sort of complete fabrication that should be called a lie? I don’t think so, personally. But what I think isn’t important. It’s what most people (especially Carson supporters) think.
Assistant Village Idiot:
Agreed.
MSM will paint it that a black conservative simply cannot tell the truth and cannot be trusted.
Since he has the highest “trust” among all voters.
Oldflyer:
By the way, I don’t see anywhere that Carson himself wrote or said the words “a full scholarship followed.” Do you have a source for that?
MSM declaring Carson finished.
But if Carson would have applied, he would have been accepted. The important thing is he wanted to be a doctor and that would not have happened at West Point.
But this little story is nothing compared to the lies and bribery of the Clintons. That’s the point of reference.
I don’t even get why this ‘scholarship’ thing is a story. It’s ridiculous.
so was making fun of trumps hair, his lack of humility, etc… none of those things actually matter either, other than the people who are like that get more done, and others who arent get little done.
churchill would be hated for being so male and agressive today… we can only tolerage metrosexual and safe men… why? it doesnt matter and explaining it will get me cut down, so its not worth sharing anyway.
just think to the people that did or made the world better, then let me know how many were milqtoast want to be loved by the world, and so on..
founders were very agressive and male
eisenhower? lbj? reagan? not exactly loved and not exactly full of humility either. but they did have nicer hair, especially reagan.
besides, only the protected classes can choose the president, so its moot and a waste of time to discuss it – even more so if most of the history is gone or not known.
See this.
Also see my “ADDENDUM.”
Odd I am in NH, (carson is hugely popular everybody attending events wants a selfie with him !) My local media, noon news, todays paper has zilch about Carson & westpoint !!!
For those of you around the country you can go to the website WMUR.com & you can see the most recent newscast that we saw, it works quite well & you won t get annoyed with all kinds of fits & starts as you watch .
So my take is that this tale about Dr Carson is being greeted with a huge Meh !
This is just a game of the corrupt MSM. They constantly repeated the mantra that Bush lied when he used the same intelligence reports that Clinton used. Notice, the MSM never say that Clinton lied although he lied to a grand jury. We also know that Obama is a blatant liar.
Compare to this media encounter
https://www.facebook.com/nationalreview/videos/10156293715470093/
anyway; I had something similar. My Congressperson’s staff start asking what I was doing after finishing school / what my plans were. It was the first step to a job offer. I never followed up on it… but I think it’s fair for me to say my Congressperson was offering me a job.
This whole story is media matters style spin and lies…
We should strike the phrase “main stream media” from our vocabulary. It presumes that the perspective of these people is centered or normative. In fact, it only reflects the perspective of the inhabitants some little blue island.
We should refer to most of them as the “Democratic Media.” Hugh Hewitt and Krauthammer are part of the Republican Media. The Nation is the Communist Media. Wherever Evan Thomas works is the Socialist Media.
PBS and ABC (for example) are on a team: they should wear the team colors proudly.
LibDem motto: “Carsono delenda est”.
Looks like I was right. This is NOT a lie nor a fabrication. It was Politico ginning up something that was never said by Carson’s campaign nor Carson himself. Besides, I have now read several places that one does not apply to West Point…it is different how you end up there. Not like a normal college. This is DUMB. Carson is no liar in this matter. Politico should be ashamed of itself.
K-E:
Perhaps Politico ought to be ashamed of itself. But unless something changes in a big way, not only is it not ashamed of itself but it is probably very, very proud.
I am still trying to figure out what all of this talk about a “scholarship” to West Point is about. You don’t get a scholarship to the military academies, you get an appointment – usually by one of your congressmen. There are no direct costs to the cadet, it’s all paid for by the DOD. The cadet has obligations such as a minimum service requirement after graduation. (… and might have to to reimburse some of those costs if he drops out.)
Go with LeftTrickleMedia then, or some more precise variation on that if you find it.
On “Scholarship”, what then is this?
…as for Ben Carson, he is very dangerous to the Democrats. He is a conservative black man, and because a large number of black people will vote strictly for their race, he has the potential to siphon off a large portion of what the Democrats consider the captive black vote.
If he gains the nomination – or gets close – I look for a lot of strange women to start coming out of the woodwork accusing him of sexual peccadilloes twenty, thirty, or even forty years ago.
This media gambit is the same one as the Dan Rather “expose” of Bush’s failed National Guard service. It is an attempt to discredit anything the GOP candidates have said or done, no matter how trivial.
I was in the active Navy Reserve in the 70s. The Guard and the Reserve worked pretty much alike. People moved (as happened in Bush’s case), or their units were disbanded (as happened in my case) that left them with no place to do their monthly weekend service. Both Bush and I were in limbo for a time. He at the very end of his obligation, me in the middle of mine. Both of us fulfilled our obligations by going the nearest Guard or Reserve unit and doing routine paperwork or just reading accident reports and other flight safety information. When his obligation ended, Bush was transferred onto the inactive list of the Guard. After being in limbo for about nine months, a new squadron that needed my experience in their type aircraft was commissioned and I was back in a regular Reserve Navy squadron. At the end of my service (13 years active duty, 8 years Active Reserve) I was transferred to the retired Navy Reserve.
During my freshman year in college, my mother wrote her Congressman and requested I be considered for an appointment to Annapolis. I was sent a preliminary application, which I returned. I was then asked to go to Fitzsimmons Army Hospital to have a physical examination. Although the idea of a free education at a first class school like Annapolis was attractive, I was involved in the ski team (which would not have been available at Annapolis) and felt very comfortable in the university where I was already nearly finished with my freshman year. I called Fitzsimmons and canceled my appointment for the physical, thereby ending my chance at an appointment. (My mother was furious with me for passing on the opportunity.) In retrospect, because I later passed the physical to be a Naval Aviator, I think I could say that I turned down an appointment to Annapolis. But if I did, and was running for national office as a conservative, I would be pummeled as being another Brian Williams type who could not resist exaggerating my resume.
I detail these two events in my life because they are so similar to things that the MSM has attacked major GOP candidates on. Essentially, they don’t mean much unless they are aggressively going after someone by examining every writing or utterance for a misplaced shading of meaning or some supposed fact they can turn against the candidate. It is the ultimate demonstration of media bias and double standards as they overlook Obama and Hillary’s exaggerations and outright mendacities.
The media have turned themselves into PRAVDA for the democrats. They long ago gave up reporting for advocacy. That’s why I stopped subscribing to the Washington Post, there was no difference in the news and the editorials.
sdferr:
Okay. I never saw an ad like that before, but I have never heard an appointment to West Point referred to as a “scholarship” either. The ad is from the Army, so I stand corrected.
scholarship versus appointment , really it s just a matter of using the WORD that most would more easily comprehend, sheesh…. quit quibbling !
Do you think LIV know all the details of a service academy appointment ?
Roy:
Agreed.
He may simply have been told that the gov’t would pay all his expenses and interpreted this as a scholarship. He was 17 and obviously looking into colleges and their respective costs.
When the media turned Romney’s “47%” dinner joke into a candidate-destroying bombshell, they knew they could say anything they want, and they would be excused by a public too embarrassed to admit they’re being lied to, even to themselves.
Now they’re testing the limits of their power, turning a claim that Carson had a recruitment chat with Westmoreland over dinner into “Carson said he attended West Point after receiving a four-year scholarship hand-delivered to him personally by General Westmoreland,” then proceeding to attack him based on this “obviously false” claim.
Sadly, my own mother has already bought it completely, calling me to accuse me of being a lying Nazi that supports Carson’s “stolen valor.” I know she won’t be the only one.
@ tadder (etc) For me would you please call your mom “a racist”, thanks !
Someone already dug up an old ad by the mil calling appointments ‘scholarships’… so… they can’t even split hairs on that pin imo. They got nuthing.
anyway; this is a ‘i can see russia from my house’ time where we got our pants on in only a few minutes. You have your chance, this time, to point and laugh at the left for being full of it… themselves… over this.
Before this current story broke (I read the Politico piece this morning), I saw that the left are focusing on promoting the narrative that Carson is dishonest, and they are pushing it hard.
A few days ago, I read about Carson’s so-called lies about his relationship with Mannatech, a company that seems to be a bit on the skeevy side. While he did make some paid speeches for them and has endorsed their products, the media are claiming that Carson is denying having any relationship with the company, and that this is a lie.
I did a little digging, but didn’t see anything that seemed objective or concrete enough to make a judgement. The only article I took without a whole salt mine worth of skepticism was from National Review, but I still don’t see enough to believe this is anything but more muckraking by the usual suspects.
Neo, are you familiar with the Mannatech issue?
One of the encouraging things is that Ben Carson is pushing back and hard. That’s what any GOP candidate needs is a quick response to innuendoes, rumors, and outright lies that the MSM will fabricate about them. Go, Ben, go!
J.J.,
Not only is he pushing back hard, he is also doing it in a far classier way than Trump.
J.J., I agree. Dr. Carson has a spine and he’s not afraid to use it. That sets him apart from most Republican candidates with respect to the media, Donald Trump being the obvious exception.
With these fine examples, maybe it can start to seep into the stolid, ossified minds of the GOPe that it is possible to stand up to the media.
Carson is hated because he is what Obama ain’t–authentically American black. Growed up poor; made something of himself pretty much by himself; but MOSTLY, not a man of the Left.
Attempting to *frame* Doctor Carson as a liar is futile, the medical profession as a whole prides itself on *being honest* really it s supposed to be one of the traits that makes a patient *trust* a doctor. If *you cannot trust your doctor*
to serve your best interests then why not go to a medicine man or quack or witch doctor!
PS ( I am not saying that ALL docs adhere to honesty, I know there are some who break that trust)
I attended West Point at about that time (I entered the summer of 1969) and not only did Carson not lie, but in my opinion he didn’t even embellish.
In those days the military was held in such low esteem that obtaining an appointment to West Point was much easier than at any other time. Any high school graduate with Carson’s qualifications (especially one who was black) would have had no trouble getting an appointment. If he did meet with General Westmoreland it is very likely that Westmoreland encouraged him to apply and guaranteed that he would be accepted. As far being offered a scholarship, in effect anyone attending a service academy receives a “scholarship” since the government foots the bill and cadets even receive a salary (1/2 the pay of a second lieutenant when I was there).
None of this matters though. The MSM and the left won’t tolerate a conservative black man and will do whatever it takes to destroy him. If this doesn’t work they will go to the old standby and dredge up some Anita Hill type from 20 years ago who will claim that she had an affair with him, or he sexually harassed her or whatever.
Chris:
You are right. Some liberal nurse will come out with a sex story. Lies.
But with LIVs, it will hurt him.
Ray: “This is just a game of the corrupt MSM. They constantly repeated the mantra that Bush lied when he used the same intelligence reports that Clinton used.”
See the answer to “Did Bush lie his way to war with Iraq?”.
As far as West Point, every cadet is on ‘full scholarship’. My understanding is that while the application process for the service academies requires steps (eg, Congressional appointment for civilian applicants, physical fitness entrance exam) that regular university admissions don’t require, the service academies have admissions offices and the recommendation of someone like GEN Westmoreland would carry a lot of weight in the USMA admissions office. The Army is big, but West Point is a closeknit fraternity.
I went to a Washington DC high school that had a Junior ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corp) program from 1963 to 1966.
The Junior ROTC program at our high school was the path to admission to the military academies. One of the officers in our Junior ROTC went to Annapolis; another officer went to West Point.
I am sure that all things being equal, the academies preferred candidates that had demonstrated military aptitude in Junior ROTC.
General Westmoreland, during his visit to Detroit, must have had discussions with the regular Army officers assigned to supervising the Detroit ROTC as to who would be good candidates for admission to West Point.
The supervising officers would have identified Ben Carson as candidate for admission to West Point.
Junior ROTC in my high school started in 10th grade; the Detroit ROTC probably was similar. Ben Carson would have started in the Detroit ROTC in 10th grade as a private and moved up to officer status by 12th grade. His character and record would have been well-known to the regular Army officers supervising the Detroit ROTC.
General Westmoreland was Chief of Staff of the US Army in 1969. For the US Army, he was the “boss of bosses.” When he made a phone call, he was never put on “hold.” When General Westmoreland told Ben Carson to apply to West Point, it was the same as saying “you will be admitted to West Point; my staff will make sure that you application flies to West Point on greased skids.”
Ace of Spades now has a picture of a recruiting ad for West Point which specifically uses the term “scholarship” to describe the no-cost benefit of the military academy.
Does anyone liberal or conservative have he slightest doubt that Ben Carson or anybody like him would have been accepted to any of the service academies in a heart beat?
Carson has done a great job standing up to the media.
After watching his response to their attacks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPzxDruyrpM), I have a much more positive view of him.
So far, Carson has turned this incident to his advantage. If nothing else, other Republican candidates should follow his example.
I must admit, Oldflyer’s not the first one I would talk to concerning the validity of Leftist propaganda. This isn’t the first time people have fallen for it.