Breaking news: active shooter situation in San Bernardino
[Scroll down for updates.]
This is a breaking news situation with very few details known so far, but an active shooter and many possible deaths have been reported at a disability center in San Bernardino, California.
At first I thought it was likely to be an instance of workplace violence It’s way too early to tell, of course, but now I’m thinking it’s some sort of terrorism, domestic or foreign. No obvious motive comes to mind for choosing that particular facility. But the report (which may or may not be true) that there were up to three shooters, and that they wore ski masks and perhaps body armor as well, indicates something more than a lone wolf or isolated crazy person.
Very bad news.
UPDATE 6:00 PM: Not much new information, but it increasingly appears that this was a well-organized pre-planned group effort.
People who do this sort of thing usually want everyone to know who they are, and why they did it—if they don’t expect to live. If they do expect to live, and have a getaway plan (which these shooters did), then they are more likely to keep their identities and motives quiet. No one has yet reported the gunman/gunmen saying or shouting anything that would identify their cause, and their masks are further indications of wanting to remain anonymous.
The target could reveal something about motive. But this one is hard to read. Who is against centers that serve the disabled? I think of Nazis, perhaps. Or, since it was a government center, anarchists. Then again, the ISIS terrorists in Paris executed disabled people in their wheelchairs, lined up in the concert hall.
We just don’t know.
UPDATE 6:20: There are reports on the local news that SWAT vehicles are closing in on suspects on San Bernardino Ave. or perhaps in a residential area, that there has been some gunfire, and that one or two suspects may be down. I have no idea whether this is true, but I certainly hope it is.
UPDATE 6:45: The live video is showing and reporting on a scene in a residential area, where SWAT vehicles and officers have surrounded a black SUV. The vehicle has been “all shot up,” one person is reported lying down in the back seat with a weapon resting on his chest, one is lying in the street and seems to be deceased, and another suspect has gotten away.
UPDATE 7:30: A neighborhood search is going on for the third suspect. It reminds me very much of the post-Boston-marathon search for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev that went on in Watertown, Massachusetts.
UPDATE 8:30: The police are saying that the two dead suspects in the SUV are a male and a female, dressed in assault-style clothing and with assault rifles.
In addition, an interview with someone who had been in the Inland Regional Center when the shootings occurred says that the site was a conference room where a Christmas Party for the Department of Public Health was being held.
This is becoming more strange every moment. Could it be a group—perhaps of related people—who had a beef with the Department of Public Health?
As for the third party, the police are now saying that a third person is in custody but may or may not be involved. The police still have not determined whether there was a third shooter.
Now the police chief is saying that there had been an altercation at the holiday party, and one person left as a result. They are theorizing it is possible that this person came back with another person to commit the murders. On the other hand, the FBI has been heavily involved, and that indicates they suspect much more than that.
UPDATE 10:17: Police are searching the suspect’s (or suspects’) home with a robotic device.
UPDATE 12:19 AM: Awaiting a police press conference. Meanwhile:
NBC News and The Los Angeles Times have each identified Syed Farouk of Corona, California as linked to the afternoon massacre in San Bernardino, California which took the lives of at least 14 people and left numerous victims wounded…
According to NBC News, a man named Syed Farook is listing as working as an Inspector for the San Bernardino County Department of Public Health. The massacre took place at a holiday party for employees of the Department of Public Health.
UPDATE: 1:10 AM: At another police press conference, it was announced that Syed Farook had worked for the county for 5 years and was American-born, aged 28. At this time it is thought that there were only two shooters. The woman was 27 years old and little is known about her, except it is thought the two were in a relationship. Both were shot by police.
Farook was indeed the person at the party who had some sort of altercation, left, and came back with the woman to commit the mass murder. He attended the party because he was an employee, and had attended the same party last year. But the police do not think the shooting was a spur-of-the-moment thing; it seemed planned.
Farook’s family now says the two were married.
I just got Skyped by a friend whose business is two miles away from the “Developmental Center”. He’s with the Sheriff’s Reserve and told me that this is looking like a coordinated attack. There was a simultaneous shooting at the Patton State Hospital for the criminally insane (confirmed) and possible shootings at the Target on Sterling Ave. (unconfirmed) and the Amazon warehouse. You heard it here first!
P.S. …the Amazon warehouse shooting is also unconfirmed at this time.
Good Lord , I pray for the poor victims!!
Some police spokesman said “terrorist”. Obama will not be happy.
That is unconfirmed. There have been no official police news announcements. The Mayor of San Bernardino (as in Bernard) appeared and talked about the resilience of the city. I live in the County, and we know that all in all SB is a pretty troubled city.
As usual, all of the national and local news out here, have given over the past several hours to talking incessantly to tell us that they don’t really know much. Mostly statements from folks who had people in the building–and all are safe, or they would not be talking I presume.
Troubled times.
My grand daughter posted on social media that human kind is sick. I may remind her that when society abandons all spiritual ties; and the entertainment industry glorifies violence, it can lead to sickness. Of course this could be a different kind of sickness all together.
My first thought, given that it happened in southern CA, was that it might be drug-related or gang-related. Isn’t it the style of organized crime to have a getaway plan? These weren’t terrorists who committed suicide in the course of the attack.
And of course already we’re hearing the usual POTUS comments about gun control.
I should have said anonymous police “quoted as using the word terrorist”, as there have been no formal police pronouncement.
Well, stuff is happening. The police just shot the hell out of a black SUV. I hope that it isn’t some soccer Mom and her kids. It appears that occupants did trade fire with cops.
with three shooters its probably islamic… not work related… though given its bernadino it could be from south of the border…
the news is talking like idiots.. ie. no warning, no intelligence, no one expected it, they are copycats, etc.
Soooo stupid and thats the FBI thing
we ALL know with an open border this was going to happen at some point…
historically speaking, there are very few groups and things that act in teams other than trained communist/islamic groups…
the sadly interesting thing will be what the open borders, we can prevent it with intelligence etc people are going to say to spin it away from their policies.. (and to the policy of locking all of us down to be safe of course)
the fabians are heating up the world to mold it into shape and sure looks like another world war is coming.
More Than 179,000 Criminal Illegal Immigrants Roaming Free in USA…
police hunt for three ‘white men dressed in ski masks and armed with AK-47s’
Bomb squad used a robot to detonate an apparent explosive device left at the scene
are they white like spanish, white like russian, or white like lighter skinned middle eastern peoples?
place your bets…
Obama calls for gun reforms in wake of San Bernardino shooting
REALLY???
President Barack Obama reiterated his call for more gun control reforms to make mass shootings in the U.S. “rare as opposed to normal” in the wake of a mass shooting in San Bernardino, California.
Speaking to CBS News moments after news broke of the shooting, Obama called for “common sense gun safety laws”
WHAT A JERK…
“We don’t yet know what the motives of the shooters are but what we do know is that there are steps we can take to make Americans safer,” Obama said in the interview. “We should never think that this is just something that just happens in the ordinary course of events because it doesn’t happen with the same frequency in other countries.”
amazing.. MOST insensitive president eva!
Hillary Clinton Calls For More Gun Control Before San Bernardino Attackers Apprehended
Even as authorities were still working to clear the Inland Regional Services complex and find the attackers who caused the San Bernardino mayhem, Democrat presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton took to Twitter to call for more gun control. Clinton tweeted, “I refuse to accept this as normal. We must take action to stop gun violence.”
NO one accepts this as normal we just dont want to be slaves and prisoners to idiots in state as a way to be safe… maybe the feminists do (given what they say they are making in their own words), but mostly not the rest of us..
The facility where this occurred does have a social services center, but it is also a conference center. The attack was apparently aimed at a holiday party of govt. employees (health department?) who rented a room for the event.
Artfldgr:
What’s going on with Obama is just the latest reiteration of this phenomenon.
Each shooting is an opportunity for him—and the left—to hammer home their attack on the 2nd Amendment.
People, outside the killing zone, should calm down and wait for the dust to settle. Nothing concrete is known, as is the case in Colorado. We all can speculate, but that is all it is, speculaion.
I’m guessing ISIS, and they’re shooting disabled as the best way to get a reaction.
Is this to horrify ( like Sandy hook), children then , now disabled ?
mollynh:
Sandy Hook was one very disturbed individual. This is three people at least; a group. Although both may have wanted to horrify, the motives underlying that desire would be very different.
It also seems (and this may be wrong; it’s just my initial impression from reports I’ve heard) that the target was a meeting in a conference room. I’m not sure the people who were hurt and killed were disabled, or if they were people who work with the disabled.
or merely local government workers holding a Christmas party and having no particular relation to the disabled services buildings next door at all.
Proxy victims, sadly, seem to be what happens in msny instance s these days. Disgusting to contemplate.
I’m reading that “the female perp was Tayyeep Bin Ardogan, a 28-year-old Qatar citizen.” That name sounds Turkish to me. Curiously it’s a lot like the name of the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan.
Proxy victims, sadly, seem to be what happens in msny instance s these days. Disgusting to contemplate.
At least they died somewhat cleanly. It has been a lot worse in the past.
A religion of pieces ….
Tayyeep Bin Ardogan & Farouk Saaed.
Geller is latching on to one description, which i would not because it will be all over and even witnesses will on some level often see what they preconceived not necessarily actually saw
She also claims she knows the name of one, but wont say it till captured or dead or somethiing like that.. one name that has popped up claimed from people who listen to police radio is Saed… but that too would not be worth more than half a penny till later.
you cant pretend your not part of a war your part of
The cops have alien nationals dead at the scene… but can’t come to any immediate conclusions.
Qatar = ISIS.
The center is the classic soft target.
It’s composed of the entirely helpless + government employees.
The trigger seems to have been a Christmas party.
So the primary target was Christian civil service employees.
This will result in Barry Soetoro demanding that more Muslims be hired by the civil service and that Christian celebrations entirely cease.
blert:
The idea that they are of Arab origin is a rumor at this point. That could turn out to be false.
But one thing of which I’m fairly sure: Christians are not the only people at Christmas parties.
The gathering that was attacked was a Christmas party. One can only speculate on the significance of that.
The people at the party may, or may not, have been connected to the facility–which itself should be state sponsored. According to my daughter, who works at a LA Country medical facility, it is common for various agencies to rent space for such activities from facilities that have larger conference rooms, etc.
Obama and HRC have their agenda; I think many Americans are going to decide that law abiding people had better arm themselves for self-protection. Wish I were in the fire arms training business. Unfortunately, since I am in California it is still problematical whether I obtain legal authority to carry a weapon on my person or in my car.
Syed R. Farook?
http://state-employees.findthedata.com/l/7981418/Syed-R-Farook
Oldflyer:
I saw an interview with someone who worked in the building who said the group was the Dept. of Public Health.
Yep.
Reporting is bizarre. Early reports say the shooters were masked and not recognizable; then we are told one of the shooters was at the meeting, or party; left in a huff, and came back with an accomplice. Apparently recognized by someone. So, which?
I would just as well surmise that the shooter, if he/she made an appearance, did so just to verify that the group was gathered, and in which room. You would not want to wander around the building dressed and outfitted to kill unless you knew where you were going. I would also surmise that they passed the first floor and went directly to the second–which has been a big point in the reporting–because that is where there were a crowd of defenseless targets gathered.
My surmises are as valid as the silly speculation we have been fed all day under the guise of news.
Attach no significance to the name–or to the late reports that the shooter’s father is a devout Muslim. Our President evidently does not.
Condolences to all the lefties whose celebrations have been derailed by the knowledge that this slaughter was not the work of a white conservative male.
@ Neo
I know you like playing “guess the motive,” so here’s my take:
Sayed Farooq was reportedly an environmental health specialist, or some crap. I guess that means he was a lower level technician in some SoCal bureaucracy.
He was also a devout Muslim and recent follower of ISIS (my guess). He attacked his fellow government coworkers for two reasons:
1) familiarity breeds contempt, and he hated his coworkers.
2) he wanted to target some part of the US government as an expansion of the terror war, to let them know they weren’t safe.
He’d been planning this for a while (hence, the armaments and preparation). He probably went to the function just to be sure it was target-rich.
His fellow jihadis have similar background, and the female was his girlfriend.
“I haven’t heard anything. He worked in a county office,” Farook’s dad told The News. “He’s married and has a kid. We’re estranged because my wife got the divorce, and they are together. She doesn’t want to see me.”
Farook said he hasn’t seen his son in some time.
“He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471
It will be interesting to compare with Bostons Tsarnov brothers. More happy thankful refugees
No doubt O & his sycophants are deciding to call this work
Place violence.
Definitely workplace violence. Just like Fort Hood.
Yes, it now seems certain this was just another work place violence incident involving folks who appear to have no connection to islam. No big deal, no female genitals were mutilated. All we need are another 15,000 gun control laws and 1,500,000 more ME refugees.
One day it will be no daily bag limit. Learn to reload; buy primers, brass, and powder now, before its too late.
I heard that CNN headline on this was something to the effect *California mass shooting less than 2 miles ftom PP
Clinic !!!!* Can you believe the desperation to link Dear into some kind of catalyst??
Oldflyer:
The shooter was not the person who left the party. That was just a theory at one point The shooters were masked, so it COULD have been the person who left the party. But the shooter was never ID’d as the person who left the party, at least as far as I’ve heard, and now that we know the identity of at least one of the shooters (and perhaps more) there is no indication it was the person who left they party.
Matt_SE:
Yes, it does seem that’s a most likely scenario. A combination of Islamic terrorism (the main motive) and a bit of workplace violence added into the mix. Something like Ft. Hood.
If “Black Flags From Rome” is valid, over time there will be more incudents. no go zones will appear. more info on farook is now online. nothing yet on the lady. escalator rising.
“Assault-style” clothing and “automatic-style” rifles
Whole lotta style going on.
The best things to do are to turn the damn TV off and keep a weapon handy. I no longer CC but keep weapons in my vehicles and a few steps away in the house.
Did you notice that with the Paris attack the media kept calling the attackers “Belgiums” ,when in fact they were not exactly native stock . The press was very un-curious as to how many generations their families had been in Europe. Also note how the media reports on the number of “Westerners'” that have joined ISIS, but there is little distinguishing between REAL Westerners and recent immigrants.
Frog,
I carry concealed a 380 ACP at my own discretion without a permit. It is my natural right. At home my 357 is always with me in every room. At night my 357 and 12 gauge are at the bedside. Mrs parker aways has her 38 snub nose handy. An armed society is a polite society.
Parker,
You are bold. My snub .38 is near at hand at night; and my shotgun is not too far away. I do not have the nerve to carry illegally in California–although I am sometimes tempted.
I still think the reporting and the story from the Police doesn’t add up. We are supposed to believe that these two drove up, parked their, SUV walked in and shot 31 people, then walked back out. Were they parked legally? Double parked? Parked in a handicapped space near the door? Did they leave the keys in the SUV–in San Bernardino?–and expect to find it when they returned? I do not believe that there were only two. I believe that if there were two shooters, there was another driver. Just saying.
I hate the term “lone wolf terrorist”. Do they say that to comfort us by believing that it is just one or two people who are randomly radicalized? Not to worry, there is no terror organization at work here. Phooey! They all have support networks, even if they stay behind the scenes. One person mentioned that you don’t just pick up those kinds of weapons and shoot 31 people. You are trained–by someone. You are supplied–by someone.
When I hear the phrase “devout Muslim”, I know they are talking about someone who will “unexpectedly” exhibit “sudden Jihad syndrome”.
Makes it hard to trust any Muslim, even though most of them just want to make a living and care for their families. Maybe. When 26% of the young ones justify suicide bombing, we have a problem, especially having them in our country.
Obama has been importing hundreds of thousands of Muslims over his reign. Sorry. Just did a Google search.
“A Breitbart News review of State Department and Homeland Security data reveals that the United States already admits more than a quarter of a million Muslim migrants each year.”
Sorry, I way underestimated. I was wrong. He has admitted nearly 2 million Muslims.
If Obama admitted them, then the next president should revoke their admission. Don’t need them, don’t want them, can’t afford them, and why won’t rich Arab countries take them?
Now it’s turning out that the Qatari connection is bogus.
The Muslim went all the way to Saudi Arabia to attain an indoctrinated Wahabbist wife.
This is something that the Left can’t face: It’s as common as sand that Arabs fly back to the old home lands to import submissives.
This way, their home life is merely transplanted Saudi culture.
( Insert Muslim national culture to suit. )
A few English gals married Pakistani Muslims — in Britain.
In no time at all, their new squeeze was transformed.
She soon discovered that SMDB is THE norm in Muslim marriages… with the husband the dominant… with a fist.
Everyone being not far off James Dean’s pacing.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/02/joanna-angel-opens-up-about-james-deen-s-alleged-abuse-he-really-is-a-scary-person.html
The English woman had to check in to the hospital. You’d thought she’d been gang raped.
Her husband threatened to murder their (mutual) daughter if she didn’t toe the line.
That’s tough loving!
That’s tough loving!
Look into Deen’s background.
Rabbi Lapin is not pleased, I’m sure.
The wheels turn ….
The Daily News cover is basically telling people to be upset that the Republican candidates are concerned with the victims, families, and “Pray” for them, while they point out that the Dems want to “do something” by making more sensible gun control laws, and the paper is all full of that angle to the point there is no need to read any of it.
1) California has some of the most restrictive gun laws and San Bernadino does more of course.
2) Neighbors wanted to say something suspicious was going on with the husband and wife team, but due to PC leftist feminist/race/gay politics they were afraid of being attacked for racism
What i got out of the daily news thing is that the left actually does not care about people they claim to serve in any meaningful way, as its their policies and games that is creating the fertile ground and hateful separation of society that then causes such outcomes.
they really work overtime so that you blame an inanimate object NOT their policies of open borders, race hate masquerading as some form of justice, affirmative action, feminist and other victim status, hoaxes, and so on…
ANYTHING but their policies…
so it isnt any of their actions, its always the inanimate objects, like guns, drugs, videos, nooses that are not nooses, and on and on.
no wonder trump is slamming the numbers the people are fed up with non representatives who seek to rule over them instead of serve.
you KNOW something is up when a candicate who is winning so much in the stats is attacked by their own side as he is going to ruin the comfortable dem heavy, dem lite (republican) system of perks, rulers, endless lawmaking, business control, stock market manipulatin and legal insider trading, nepotism, favoritism, Kickbacks, thefts, sexual misconducts, sharing top secret information, dealing with other states to US detriment, controlling the market, favoring foreigners over citizens, open borders/drug cartel favoritism, favoring religion over others, erasing religion, pushing amoral behavior, erasing history, lying about history, causing race war behavior, and i could literally go on for a while, but neo would erase what i wrote and i have better things to do than work at it to be erased and have my life time that is valuable to me get flushed down the toilet.
AK-47 and AK-74s are illegal in california..
The news is false reporting that this is AR type
the shells the news has been mislabeling are 5.45 x 39mm, which is fired by the much more acurate AK-74
The interesting thing is that given the selection that is possible in the US there are a lot better, more accurate, and powerful weapons that would cost less they could have selected (if they bought them and did not get them from a smuggling source which could bring them over the border in tunnels, or with the multiton shipments of drugs)
they most likely bought the guns that they were trained on and that their knowlege of guns and such was then limited to their training.
Salon and Mother Jones has been trying to say that 78 (the higher number) of incidents since 1982 (why that year?), shows that such things are not rare… but they ARE if you run the numbers VS the number of arms out there…
Their big thing is to make the transexual dreaming wacko who shot up the planned parenthood to be a republican shill and all these events are by republicans and white guys, to the point that on the left sites they keep saying they have a white male problem. (hey feminists who started that, think that they wont turn to the source of that problem?)
Its also convenient that they are dead so we wont know a thing… while at the same time the left says police should not use deadly force.
in fact, here is the logic
1) Police are racists and murder civilians
2) Only police should have guns
There are a lot of George W. Bush haters out there…including some Republicans. But if he had not only invaded Iraq (and left enough troops there to insure control and peace), but also Syria and Iran (the logical extension of his policy), we wouldn’t have a lot of the problems we are having today.
We need to destroy ISIS, Iran, and the Assad administration to get to the roots of most of our problems. It COULD have been done easily after the Iraq invasion. Now it’s very hard.
Neo:
The President’s attack on the 2nd amendment is actually an attack on much of the Bill of Rights. At this moment the 2nd is the most vulnerable to attack, but he would like to do away with many of the rest too, very much including the First. He is going after what he sees as low hanging fruit, and in his circles, urban people with armed body guards, gun ownership is an aberration — the easiest thing to go after. Bernie Sanders said as much about gun ownership during the last debate, although I hardly hold him up as an authority on anything.
Living in NV, I can have a carry permit with little difficulty (pay a registration fee, have my fingerprints sent to the FBI, and wait 30 days). Many of my friends have them. I was talking to a friend yesterday who always carries and keeps a loaded firearm on his nightstand. He says he will now start carrying a small rifle in his vehicle: he considers his pistol only a delaying tactic to allow him to get to the rifle in his car. He is not my only friend to reach this conclusion. I am not ready to take that step, but I understand where he’s coming from. Democrat policies are turning us into the old west as depicted in Hollywood westerns.
our Future
As others have already said: ‘Workplace violence, the result of marginalization and a lack of welcoming attitude. NRA at fault.
Nothing more to see. Move along please.’
It does explain, however twisted that kind of reasoning, why the surviving attendees were prohibited from speaking to the press. Their bosses knew what was up. I saw “probation officers” actually hustle the one woman who stopped to comment to the press, along physically.
And I notice how delicate our media has become when it comes to respecting the privacy of the dead terrorists. Soon they will be pixilating the entire area of their demise lest some bigot disrespect the deceased’s humanity.
Maybe if we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, the problem will go away.
Though there are certainly attacks on the Second Amendment from around the edges through un-Second Amendment-like regulation writing, any direct attack, as for instance in repeal, is unthinkable to the leftists. They are not so stupid as to believe such a thing possible. On the other hand, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, FDR showed the way, not by repealing what he didn’t like, but by adding “rights” which themselves are anathema to the underlying principles embodied in the original ten: the so-called “positive” rights, which nullify the entire object of the original bill of ten. Make the government the source of “right”, rather than restricted to a repository of heavily limited powers, and voila!, Americans sufficiently forget over time the purpose of their retention of sovereignty, which they learn to cede away. Government (mere politicians along with their chosen administrators) obtains great power it ought never to have had, and the means to get itself more.
I have a suggestion for Neo. Have a contest to beat the Lying-Sack-In-Chief to the punch with a speech writing contest.
Do your best anticipatory impersonation of our own Dear Leader and Manchurian Candidate, as he might be expected to expatiate on these recent events.
You know something like,
“For too long now we Americans have seen how misunderstood frontier traditions, obsolete attachments, and the celebration of mythical images involving the heroic individual , have contributed to our current and uniquely American epidemic of mass violence.
These instances of workplace and civic violence, perpetrated by alienated and estranged persons who might otherwise seek counseling, are enabled by our archaic obsession with unfettered access to devices meant only for war.
We must make certain that extremist individuals who wish to twist the tenets of our great religious traditions, are forestalled rather than aided when they attempt to act out their murderous rages …”
Yadda yadda yadda, NRA, George Bush, Republicans, Fundamentalists, Racism etc etc etc.
This is real simple. If we lived in a real country the operating theory would have started out as “this is Islamic terrorism”. If we lived in a real country the police, FBI and media wouldn’t be bent into pretzels terrified of saying what they all know: This is Islamic terrorism, just like Paris.
There is no such thing as “Lone Wolf” terrorists. They are all united by Islam.
I think it pretty clear this was an act of terror, and the day and event chosen specifically because of what it was- a Christmas party.
Artfldgr:
Just to get this straight—so, are you saying that the police chief was lying when he said the weapons were legally-purchased AR15s? Because he made that announcement late last night in his press conference.
It seems that mass violence is much, much more prevalent on the other (Mexican) side of USA southern border. I even do not mention Middle East yet.
“We need to destroy ISIS, Iran, and the Assad administration to get to the roots of most of our problems.”
We certainly need to destroy ISIS and destroy Iran’s program to achieve nuclear weapons capability. Assad on the other hand is a dictator and our choice in the ME is either a dictator or jihadist regimes. There is NO middle road. As Islam won’t allow it.
BUT… none of those things will get to the root of the problem, because those are ALL symptomatic, NOT causal. The source of Islamic jihadism is Islam, period. It is impossible to reform Islam’s violence. All that can be done is to quarantine it and allow it to destroy itself through continued exposure of its youth to modern cultural influences.
Neo, This morning the Chief said that the “long guns” were legally purchased, but he did not know if they were “California legal”. California, for instance, has restrictions on the size of magazines. Therefore, a gun-magazine combination that is legal in another state, would not be legal to buy, or possess, in California.
As most people know, the AR-15 is not an assault rifle, even though it is popularly labeled as such. Strangely, the COP did refer to the weapons as assault rifles, a description that does not fit the definition of legal.
FBI still cannot bring itself to use the term Terror.
@Geoffrey Britain: And at some point, “guilt by association” applies to all Muslims. The only peaceful Muslim, and there are many, at least in the West, is a Muslim that ignores many teachings of his religion.
Either that or he is laying low waiting for a chance to follow Allah’s will.
But the bottom line is that you can’t reform Islam. The bad stuff is baked in at the very foundation. For Islam to be truly compatible with liberal, Western democracy, it must become something it is not, and never has been.
When these kinds of things happen in the name of Christianity, it is trivial to show that they are diametrically opposed to Christianity.
Yeah, there are some dolts who play silly games with the Old Testament, but they are, not to put too fine a point on it, ignorant idiots.
Ditto Judaism, and as far as my limited knowledge goes, Buddhism and Hinduism. But when you’re talking about Islam, it’s pretty straightforward to justify these things with the core teachings of the religion (albeit it depends on what parts you consider to “abrogate” the other parts).
Furthermore, people acting in this manner are simply imitating their so-called “perfect Prophet” who engaged in all sorts of awful behavior by any moral standard that matters.
Muslims aren’t directly the problem, not most of them, but Islam is. It is a memetic cancer that cannot be cured, only excised from the world. If only the West weren’t abandoning the only things that can win over hearts and mind to a greater Good, we would be a lot better able to defend ourselves and our culture.
ConceptJunkie,
With but a few caveats we’re in agreement.
” The only peaceful Muslim, and there are many, at least in the West, is a Muslim that ignores many teachings of his religion.”
There are hundreds of millions of Muslims, indeed arguably a majority, who ignore Islam’s core teachings. BUT… that percentage of ‘moderate’ Muslims is precipitously reduced as the percentage of Muslims in a society increases and a greater percentage of young Muslim Americans are radical than their elders. A Pew poll revealed that 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy.
“For Islam to be truly compatible with liberal, Western democracy, it must become something it is not, and never has been.”
It cannot become something it is not. It is theologically impossible for Islam to reform, either from within or without.
“(albeit it depends on what parts you consider to “abrogate” the other parts)”
There is NO controversy within Islam as to its doctrine of abrogation. Agreement is virtually universal that the later violent passages abrogate the earlier more peaceful passages. EVERY Muslim KNOWS this to be true. This is why the ‘moderate’ Muslims are silent (even anonymously), they KNOW that the jihadists occupy the theological ‘high’ ground.
“people acting in this manner are simply imitating their so-called “perfect Prophet””
That’s not by choice. Muhammad HAS to be declared ‘perfect’ because if his pedophilia and murderous nature is admitted, then him also being deluded or simply a liar as to the Qur’an’s authorship… becomes almost impossible to defend against. And Islam’s theological foundations utterly rest upon Muhammad’s claim that the Qur’an was dictated to him by Allah through the perfect conduit, the Archangel Gabriel.
Islam is a virulently expansionist, totalitarian ideology wrapped in a facade of religious pretense. Comparisons to cancer and speculation as to its satanic origin are entirely plausible.