An important must-read article by Megan McArdle
This is a long but important piece by Megan McArdle on the “#NeverTrump” Republicans who are appalled at Donald Trump’s hostile takeover of the party, and why they feel the way they do.
[Hat tip: commenter “Tom.”]
Thanks for the hat tip, but I saw it on Hot Air. Sorry for not putting that in my original post about it.
I read it and was surprised how intense the emails quoted in the article were. And I thought I was anti-Trump!
The McArdle piece is filled with RINOs pretending to be conservatives. Anyone who thinks that Clinton is the lesser of two evils is either in denial or intentionally misleading others. Trump may well be as bad, but death by knife is not ‘a lesser evil’ than death by gun. Make no mistake, there will be no going back after Hillary. The fundamental transformation of America will, for all intents and purposes, be complete. One party rule and Marxist progressivism with whites a permanently oppressed minority is the inescapable future under Hillary Clinton.
Yeah. This is me. The Ben Sasse statement that Neonposted yesterday summed it up pretty well. I am a former registered Dem who changed registration when Obamacare passed. Now basically independent, although I registered GOP to vote in primary.
I have never not voted in a presidential election before, but I will not vote for Trump under any circumstances. As far as I am concerned, the choice between unprincipled Hillary (out and proud Dem) and unprincipled Trump (closeted and/or lying Dem) is no choice at all. I will either write in a vote or vote for Hillary. My state is blue so she will carry it anyway. It’s the potential Hillary SCOTUS appointments that give me pause.
Like you said earlier, Neo, it’s a tragedy.
I need Cruz to make a heroic comeback of historical magnitude so that this nightmare all goes away.
Geoffrey Britain:
These are people who by any stretch of the term are not RINOs, they are conservatives with conservative reasons behind their choice. You may not like them, but calling them “RINOs” is part of the problem, and part of what will drive them out of the party. “RINO” has for quite some time lost its original and more limited meaning and is now used as a pejorative to mean “someone in the GOP I don’t agree with.”
That two such flawed candidates as HRC and the Donald are the choices for POTUS, speaks volumes about where our society is at this point. Many reasons why. To list a few:
The MSM, academia, Hollywood, the music industry, reality TV, smart phones, Facebook, Twitter, decline in religious belief, and feminism.
The decline has occurred over the last 50 years – it began with the Vietnam War. It has progressed in fits and starts to where we are now. The “chickens are now coming home to roost,” as they say.
I dislike Trump. However, I dislike Hillary and what she would inevitably bring more. Trump is a wild card. Unlike with Obama where any opposition was called racist, I think Congress could stand up to Trump and receive kudos. That might keep his authoritarian tendencies in check. Also, I don’t think there would be any hesitation to impeach him as there has been with Obama. Thus, I’m of the belief that our institutions would temper his conduct. For those reasons:
1. Hillary is by far the worst of the two choices.
2. Trump might do some good things. (If he actually got the border under control, that would be a huge plus compared to Hillary, who would NOT EVER control the border.)
If Trump is the nominee, I will vote for Trump in the general.
We know exactly what will happen with HRC – NONE of it good. With Trump there might be some upside.
Truth Unites:
I’m with you on that.
The irony is that a lot of people who have been angry at the “establishment” over the years but who have NOT jumped onboard with Trump (and there are a lot of such people) may end up looking to the hated “establishment” to support an alternative to Trump at the convention, or to support an alternative Republican candidate running as third-party if Trump is the Republican nominee.
We’re in bizarro world.
Geoffrey Britain:
I agree with all of the sentiments expressed in that article, and while I’m more libertarian, than conservative, I’m by NO means a RINO. I served in the US Army as a Military Policeman, I was the Denver County Co-Chair for Phil Gramm’s presidential campaign, I have been a delegate to my county convention twice, and to the Colorado State Convention twice. I’ve voted in every single election, and have only voted for a Democrat once in my life. (My father was a Democrat running for County Sheriff.) I have contributed to numerous Republican campaigns, put out yard signs, served on the board of the Denver Metro Young Republicans, and been a Republican Precinct Committee person. I hated Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and that’s before we even get to Pat Schroeder, or Jared Polis. So don’t call me a RINO. Trump is either just a loudmouth jerkoff, or insane. Neither are qualities I want in the leader of our country, or a man with his finger on the nuclear trigger and control of the strongest military in the world.
For Trump vs Hillary I’ll be voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils.
In other words, Republicans unwilling to sell Trump the hanging rope.
JJ,
Yep. The activist game is the only social cultural/political game there is. Yet conservatives have opted out of it.
I’m disappointed at Neo’s commenters who even now, confronted by an anti-GOP activist insurgency, still insist that the GOP is the only political vehicle for conservatives when, one, the GOP is insufficient on its face to compete on the spectrum of participatory politics that – as you point out – subsume electoral politics and, two, the Democratic party evidently is not the only nor principal political vehicle for the Left, thus showing the premise that the GOP is the only political vehicle for conservatives is a false premise.
Conservatives have simply chosen to opt out of the activist game and pass the buck to the GOP despite the GOP can’t play the activist game without Right activists. The Democrats don’t play the activist game on their own, either. They rely on, and thereby largely have been occupied by, Left activists.
How can anyone vote for someone who knowingly put personal utility over national security?
I think that a majority of Americans will soon look at the Hillary/Trump choice with horror. Many won’t vote. Many will vote their party affiliation. Many will choose the lesser of their two great fears: Hillary’s Supreme Court selections vs. Trump’s hand on the nuclear button.
As recently as last week, I couldn’t see how Trump could ever overcome the Democrat’s stranglehold on the electoral college. Now, I have to admit I have no idea what will happen to us in this uniquely tragic election.
I live in a very remote, and beautiful, part of the country. Especially at my age, after the election, I know I’ll be tempted to completely withdraw from politics. Lots of upside, and what do I lose? I think I’ll go look up Nixon’s Checkers speech. Seriously, I don’t know what I’m going to do, but Geoffrey Britain and his ilk should know that the well of anti-Trump anger runs deep. If I ever meet one of them face-to-face, and he calls me a RINO in denial, I’ll probably break every bone in his worthless body.
If we are indeed faced with Trump vs Clinton, then we will all here have to make a difficult choice. I literally held my nose when voting for McCain. I did not think he would be a good president, but Obama was worse. Trump vs Clinton would make that look like a clash of titans.
I have thought about this at length. I don’t want either of them. But Trump comes up short of even her in a few areas.
Intelligence. I have never seen a major candidate as poorly informed, or with such simple minded policies as him.
Emotional stability. We have a 69 year old man having regular temper tantrums. I know 5 year olds more mature than he is.
Trump may not be a racist, but they are attracted to him. Please note, I am not calling all of his supporters racist, but some are.
Foreign policy. After the damage done by Obama we need someone first rate. Both would be bad, but his instability is scary.
It’s a long way to November. He might surprise me in a good way. But, as of now I can’t bring myself to vote for Trump.
Tom says: “…a man with his finger on the nuclear trigger and control of the strongest military in the world.”
Suddenly it is 1964. That is when folks like Tom stayed home and thereby elected a Democratic Congress and President which got us The Great Society. The 1964 voters had an excuse, but when we can read about how the Liberal machine duped Republicans into staying home in 1964 [you can watch the 1964 Democratic TV commercial of the little girl with the flower being blown up in the nuclear blast [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_%28advertisement%29]. Perhaps the Democrats will just bring that commercial back. Folks like Tom watched the commercial, clutched their hearts and let the Democrats win.
The Liberal machine named her “Daisy” because of the flower. They still slap themselves on the back and stagger around howling about the idiots who bought their scam and did not vote for the Republican candidate Barry Goldwater “the maniac who would have his finger on the nuclear trigger”. After losing the election, Senator Goldwater serverd several more terms in the Senate, did not harm a mouse.
What is wrong with people who do not learn. Who would rather have Hillary’s hand on the trigger [if she could find it] and who has demonstrated such excellent judgement in Libya, etc. Fool me once [1964] …
The Democrats ran other ads. One was called, “Girl with Ice Cream Cone”, and it also talked about the risk of nuclear proliferation. Another was called, “KKK for Goldwater” [are you getting this yet?], and it portrayed Goldwater as being racist, by noting that Alabama KKK leader Robert Creel supported him [any bells ringing, yet?].
If Cruz is not on the ballot, none of the above looks like the next best choice.
Put me in the camp of Geoffrey Britain, MikeC and J.J. at 12:55. There is no way I can EVER compare Hillary to Trump as she is a proven criminal with regards to her term in public office. Her violations of the public trust are numerous and egregious. Anyone comparing the 2 and finding her in any way less destructive is ignoring the reality of breach of office and thereby broadcasting one’s own principles. No excuses for Hillary–NONE! Trump is an unproven entity as far as public office and maybe the purposed existence of 3 separate branches of government, framed by our Founders will once again be embraced if we should end up with him come November. I also want to go on record that while I have never considered him Presidential material, (I am a Cruz supporter from the beginning) I do not share all the fear and dread of my fellow conservatives. Unusual for me, as I am a pessimist, by nature.
notherbob2:
It isn’t 1964. I’m not drooling over TV ads or left-wing propaganda.
You’ve read Trump’s record, and you’ve seen his incoherent and reckless demagoguery, and yet you’re unconcerned by the prospect of his hand on the nuclear trigger.
To me, that seems awfully naive.
If anyone’s a Republican In Name Only, it’s Trump, who was for all intents and purposes a Democrat until just recently, who still mouths the uglier Democrat platitudes in unguarded moments (such as “Bush lied”) and whose ideas and policies — to the extent they can be discerned at all in the flood of insults, braggadocio and empty promises that makes up most of his rhetoric — show no recognizable hint whatsoever of any understanding of the principles of conservatism, nor any allegiance to them.
Those people who emailed McArdle are lifelong Republicans, while I, like Neo, am a Changer who deserted the Democratic party of my youth and will likely never belong to a political party again. But they’re singing my song. I don’t know what will happen to our country if this election comes down to Clinton vs. Trump, nor do I know what the heck I will do in the voting booth — except that come what may, I will not vote for Trump in any circumstance.
Cornflower – I repeat: I support Cruz. I am attempting to be the canary.
“The case against Trump will be prosecuted on two levels,” said Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster and Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategist in 2008. “The first is temperament,” and whether he is suited to be commander in chief, Mr. Garin said, echoing conversations that have dominated Democratic circles recently. The second “will be based on whether he can really be relied on as a champion for anyone but himself.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-general-election.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0
There you have it, straight out of the horse’s mouth.
All I am saying is that we should keep our wits about us in the face of the Liberal machine in trying to decide what is best for the country.
So you think Trump is anxious to blow up Trump Tower, et al? Does he love his wife and children? Must we accept the word of the MSM on this?
notherbob2:
I actually don’t see Trump as trigger-happy on the nuclear button.
But those who do are feeling that way because he is seen (rightly, I believe) as an unpredictable loose cannon. Whether it be nuclear fears or other fears, such fears are related to his impulsivity and lack of predictability, as well as lack of history in political office. The fears are character-driven rather than policy-driven.
First David Duke, and now a semi-endorsement of Trump by none other than that fine, upstanding man, Louis Farrakhan:
“I like what I’m looking at.”
Just ugh.
notherbob2:
You: “All I am saying is that we should keep our wits about us in the face of the Liberal machine in trying to decide what is best for the country.”
Me: Thanks very much, my wits are fully intact.
You: “So you think Trump is anxious to blow up Trump Tower, et al?”
Me: I think Trump is reckless, incoherent, and phenomenally ignorant about international politics and the consequences of presidential rhetoric and decisions. During his campaign, and in his political advocacy that preceded it, Trump established a pattern of behavior. As president, that behavior could destabilize international relations, and possibly lead to wars that would be hard to limit to conventional weapons. This concerns me.
You: “Must we accept the word of the MSM on this?”
Me: Of course not. Who has said that we should?
I did not want to get into this, but…
Neo and others say that endorsements do not mean much. What if I asked you, Cornflower, to pose for a picture and contribute to an article in your local paper stating that your hermit neighbor, about whom many people had been spreading rumors, was a fine, upstanding citizen? Would you do so lightly, knowing that your endorsement would haunt you the rest of your life if the charges being laid against the hermit proved to be true? Would it change your mind if the Mayor asked you to do him a favor and do so?
My point is that you have a lot to lose by such an endorsement. Look at the downside.
Say you are correct about Trump. What is in the future for those who have endorsed Trump? Have you not noticed how most of them have said that they are “friends” with him? That they have known him for a number of years? Are they not as well-informed about him as you? Are they all cynical misanthropes?
How much of what you believe you know about Trump came from the MSM? From those who opposed his business plans because he was a competitor? Ex-wives? Fired executives…wait, I think I may have gone too far.
A lot of people who know him like, admire and respect him. Why don’t they speak up if he is a threat to America? Wouldn’t you rat out a friend if it looked like he was going to be elected President and you knew he was unreliable?
I suggest that watching those who endorse Trump is a much, much better source of information than the MSM. Tell me about Christie’s inability to see what kind of person Trump is. And, yes, I am familiar with the discontent in Germany and how well-meaning folks saw a way to change things for the better. Finally, there was a strong man to restore German pride. So, let’s avoid that scenario by electing a bribe-taking, incompetent liar so that we won’t be tempted to follow her too faithfully. Sheesh!
From Jonathan Tobin at Commentary — “Is Trump Better Than Clinton?”:
Full piece is here. It’s a response to Hugh Hewitt’s article in the Washington Examiner “Six reasons Trump is still better than Clinton”.
notherbob2:
You’ve now strayed into the truly weird.
Good-bye.
Ann-I will never understand people comparing the 2 when we have the FACTS of Hillary’s ACTIONS while serving in an important office. For now, it is conjecture with Trump, and people seem to be making determinations as though he would be operating in a vacuum (no Congress or Court). We have seen how the Congress and Court conduct themselves with their protected office-holder. What nonsense!!!!
notherbob2:
I never said endorsements don’t mean much. I specifically said that they mean a lot to many people.
I said that personally they don’t mean a thing to me when I decide who to support.
Neo-Endorsements have never meant much to me either, and don’t in the present process either, but I will say I am flummoxed by the endorsements Trump has received. My son and I were just talking about it last night and agreed that for us, it is yet another marker that there is plenty that is going on behind the scenes of which we are not privy.
Sharon.
I know; I don’t like having to rely on endorsements either. We don’t have a record in politics on which to judge Trump. I just know that between the MSM and endorsements, I pick endorsements. I definitely do not like having this choice.
Who is responsible for leaving us with this choice? I say the Republican establishment. Apparently they would rather leave us with this choice than to listen to their constituents and lead us. If we don’t follow them on their current course, we are abandoned to the choice we face. We are either up to it or not.
In 1964, we bailed. You can look up the result. We can wail all we want to about Trump, but if we give the election to Hillary, we are responsible for the result as much as if we carried her signs and voted for her. Make no mistake about that.
Whigninng about poor choices doesn’t change anything.
“These are people who by any stretch of the term are not RINOs, they are conservatives with conservative reasons behind their choice.” neo
Rather than parse every individual’s position, I spoke broadly because the majority stated that they either would vote for Hillary to stop Trump or would seriously consider it. IMO, a direct vote for Hillary disqualifies anyone from a viable claim to be a conservative. A vote for Hillary is as good a qualification for actually being a RINO as I can imagine.
Tom,
If you vote directly for Hillary, or support that action, whether you admit it to yourself or not, you’ve adopted the position of a RINO.
Personally, I’m confident that Trump is not crazy or even emotionally disturbed. He is a “loudmouthed jerkoff”, which does NOT make him wrong on the issues, nor ‘prove’ that he will be as destructive to the republic as neo, you and others fear.
Which is not to say you all may not be right about him.
But you appear to dismiss what we do know, that Hillary will move this country much closer to its destruction.
So your choice is the certainty of Hillary vs the ‘probably’ of Trump.
Ted Cruz, today on the Glenn Beck show, said giving Trump the nomination is giving Hillary the presidency anyway:
“Donald Trump, I believe, would be a manifest disaster. We just had polling come out today that Donald Trump loses and loses badly to Hillary Clinton, loses by ten points. The same polling – this is CNN – shows that I beat Hillary head-to-head. If Donald Trump is the nominee, Hillary Clinton becomes the president.”
“a manifest disaster” — well said.
And it’s not a “manifest disaster” that a person like Hillary is not only running but is deemed electable? Really? What is the more harrowing reality? That says more about our voting populous and the state of the Republic than anything other than the fact that Obama was elected twice (especially in 2012). Indeed, how long can the Republic last when a known liar and person who has criminally violated public office is a contender for the highest office. That is far more sobering to me than the Trump run.
I think that people aren’t thinking clearly about this. Domestically, the President has to deal with lots of actors and has to bargain with many people to accomplish his agenda. It doesn’t matter if it’s Trump or HRC, there has to be quite a bit of maneuvering to get anything done. However, the President is primarily responsible for foreign affairs and much less constrained. In this capacity, Hillary Clinton will be an unmitigated disaster because of her lawless use of insecure computers and because she strongly favors the Muslim Brotherhood.
It’s pretty clear that the private servers were part of a Pay-to-Play scheme for the benefit of the Clinton Global Initiative. Bill would give a speech for half a million to a company that needs State Department approval for a project, they in turn would donate several tens of millions to CGI and a few months later the State Department would give the approval. We know that Hillary’s capo, Sydney Blumenthal, was hacked by a Romanian taxi driver who called himself Guccifer. Blumenthal was apparently recipient via HRC of quite a bit of sensitive information about Libya and Benghazi for some kind of shady business deal. They thought they could do this and get away with it because, after all, the entire purpose of the private network was to escape oversight by government minders. Since an amateur like Guccifer was able to hack the emails, you know that the North Koreans, the Chinese, the Iranians, and the Russians among others have all her emails. Every single one. These are not people with delicate moral sensibilities and they will use the information to blackmail her. As The Donald might say, I 100% guarantee it. She will be pulled around by the nose and other body parts unmercifully by the bad guys to get what they want in foreign affairs at the expense of the US.
This brings us to the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama’s and Hillary’s favorite political partner in the Arab world. What? You mean the organization that spun off Hamas in Gaza, ISIS, and of course Al-Queada of 9/11 fame. Yep, that’s them. They are not only enemies of Israel and Jews in general, and the US, they are enemies of Western Civilization. When Obama went to Egypt in 2009 he insisted on having MB members attend his speech despite strenuous objections by the government. When Mubarak was overthrown and the MB came into power after the subsequent election, the MB began to systematically persecute and murder the Coptic Christians, a two thousand year old sect, and burn their churches. There was not a peep out of Obama or Clinton. When the Egyptian military overthrew the MB to bring back peace there was a lot gnashing of teeth and threats by Obama and Hillary for toppling a democratically elected government. A government that persecuted and killed a minority was OK, but their overthrow by the military to stop the murdering was illegitimate. Obama and Clinton have a moral compass that points downwards.
The MB has a very sordid history. Shortly after their founding in 1928 they joined with the Nazis who funded and trained them. After WWII lots of Gestapo and SS officers escaped to Egypt, in turn converting to Islam and joining the Brotherhood. Their great leader during the war was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who spent much of the time in Berlin making propaganda broadcasts to the Arab world on behalf of the Nazis. The Mufti was also given an annual budget of about $150 million which he used to organize Muslim SS Brigades in the Balkans and elsewhere. The most famous was the Bosnian Brigade that murdered all the Jews left in Bosnia and then proceeded to massacre Christians in Serbia. The Mufti, despite being wanted as a war criminal, escaped back to Egypt after WWII. His last and most famous protege was Yasser Arafat.
This is a bit round about, but Hillary’s top aide is Huma Abedin, who is Muslim Brotherhood. Her father was an important member and her mother helped found the Muslim Sisterhood. Abedin herself worked for MB organizations for several years before going to work for Hillary. Knowing what the the MB is, this is extremely disturbing. The combination of Hillary’s support for the Muslim Brotherhood and the certainty that she will be blackmailed is absolutely horrible to contemplate with the dangerous instability in the Middle East that seems to be expanding all the time with no end in sight.
If it comes to Trump versus Hillary, it’s Trump only because I think there will be some external brakes on him. In either case, it confirms what I said to my wife on election night in 2012, it’s the end of the Republic.
Sharon W,
Cruz makes a different point and one that neo has repeatedly made; that Trump if nominated will lose to Hillary. Cruz and Rubio argue that they can beat Hillary, the electibility argument.
There is another related argument that parker has made, that if Hillary wins, she gets all the blame for the coming debacle. Given the collaboration of the GOP and the MSM’s ability to lie, I’m somewhat doubtful that the LIVs will blame her. At least, not until its too late.
“Blame?” I am sure you were saying to yourself, even as you wrote this. Because you are well aware that for many the dismantling of our system of liberty, initiative, and competitive opportunity, is a feature and not a bug.
No matter how wretched or politically unfree you become … it is not a problem to them
I have several times quoted an NYT article from Dec of 2014 which stated that 16 percent of the prime working age males, (25-54) were out of the work force.
I was flabbergasted by the fact, but much more by the nonchalant, rain falls from heaven, “progress takes its toll ” manner in which it was stated.
Today, for the first time in a long while I caught a snippet of Limbaugh. He was quoting someone named Murray’s article (Probably Chas.) on the attitudes of the Self-serving Cossetted Coastal’s attitudes to the working class in “fly-over country”.
A supposed factoid quoted, was that it was 24% of white males who were out of the workforce.
I don’t know if that is true or not. But by the shrugging attitude of the NYT as it describes ongoing demographic and political change in America, i.e., the politically arranged and policy targeted dispossession of Americans from their property, their livelihoods, and their futures, I cannot imagine what anyone would have to say to them if they commenting on the treasonous elites replied “I’ll stand back let the whole damn thing burn down and fry them as it does.”
The most tragic part about the Trump/Hillary choice is the farce it has made of the GOPe’s argument:
“Vote for our guy, or DEMOCRAT!”
Trump’s supporters are now making the same argument, without a hint of irony or self-awareness.
I second J.J.’s motion — it’s a disgrace that in a country of 300 million people, a criminal and an assh*le will probably be the nominees for President of the United States.
One of McArdles’ email responses struck home to me, in light of a recent conversation I had with my son. My son is a conservative like me. In a discussion regarding whether to vote for Trump if Trump becomes the Republican nominee (we are both Cruz supporters), I expressed the opinion that I would probably have to vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils if it came to that. My son laughed as thought he thought I was joking. He said, “oh, I could never vote for Trump, I’d vote third party or not at all.”
The email response regarding why the commenter could never vote for Trump is in part as follows:
“It is that [Trump] embodies virtually everything I strive to teach my young sons not to be and not to emulate.
– That being wealthy makes one morally superior.
– That material wealth is a measure of a man’s true worth.
– That boasting about sexual conquests is something to be admired or cheered.
– That every challenge to your ideas should be met not with a sound argument about the idea, but with smears, insults and put downs about the person uttering the disagreement.
– That legitimate challenges to your ideas should be met with threats of financial ruin or lawsuits.
– That the force of government should be wielded by the wealthy against the weak.
– That your failures or lack of success must always be attributed not to your lack of intelligence or initiative, but to someone else getting something that’s rightfully yours.”
My son is a better man than me. When he graduated from law school with significant student debt, he joined the Army as an enlisted soldier to pay off his student loans, served a combat tour with an infantry unit in Afghanistan, and began his legal career after his discharge.
I realize now that my son was right. You can vote for Trump for any reason you want, I never will.
Chris-I also have conservative sons, one of whom, also served in Afghanistan and is presently completing his military commitment. Both sons like yours are fiscally responsible and decent. But if it comes down to Hillary or Trump, each would vote for Trump because using the list you cite, they would make their choice in this case like they would choose a brain surgeon. What is the chance of surviving the surgery and even better, it being successful? The possibility exists that Trump (especially if our other 2 branches of government function as designed) might be up to the task. To date in her political career, Hillary has done the last 4 things on your list. They would want no part of being responsible for insuring the continued direction toward the cliff to which our Republic is headed.
Sharon W-
I understand and respect that. It’s even possible that I may come back around to that way of thinking in the end.
It’s just so depressing to think that with all the promise the 2016 elections held that we are probably going to end up with either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton as President of the United States. I fear disaster either way.
Chris–the ones I feel for the most are our children and grandchildren. They have been put in a terrible position and are surrounded by peers that are utterly clueless about basic principles of life. But I am a praying person and ultimately rest my hope in God.
I agree Sharon. Ultimately God is in control.
Unfortunately, God has no influence or power over Soddom or Gomorrah places.
Something in the water and blood.