July 26th, 2016

Just imagine

Here’s a comment I found at RedState:

Ted Cruz would have never had to explain why he didn’t explicitly endorse Trump in that speech the next day had the RNC/Trump campaign not orchestrated the booing and outrage from the convention crowd.

Imagine if instead they rallied the crowd to cheer Cruz, and Trump then walked out and shook Cruz’s hand, padded him on the back, embraced him, and thanked him for his kind and inspiring words. Imagine if then Trump addressing the audience said “Ted nailed it. If we stand together on those principles, then Hillary doesn’t have a chance. We will win and win big.”

Humility and kindness is all Trump needed to show, and everyone would have walked away thinking that the party was united and possibly Cruz just endorsed Trump in the same way Reagan endorsed Ford (without actually saying it).

Imagine if pigs could fly. Imagine all the people, living life in peace…

You may say I’m a dreamer.

97 Responses to “Just imagine”

  1. junior Says:

    And the worst of it is that every time I point to Trump’s awful behaviour toward Cruz, Trump’s defenders bend over backwards to justify his actions.

  2. OlderandWheezier Says:

    Great find, neo. I’ve never seen such a politically tone-deaf candidate or movement.

    What’s so frustrating is that, should we somehow be spared in November the damage to this nation that the most corrupt of the Clinton crime family represents, tens of millions of us will still be holding our breaths for at least two years. A Trump presidency could be the worst thing to happen to rational conservatism in this country in generations.

  3. Baklava Says:

    There is no defense.

    He’s undisciplined, unfocused, an easy target that has 70% of the people viewing him negatively.

    Cement.

    I was CEMENTED last week not to vote for Trump.

    The winner in this election? Personal Responsibility. We will have to return to that. Those who live off of government and do nothing (don’t work hard – or didn’t serve – or aren’t elderly) will waste away their lives.

  4. Mike K Says:

    I think that would have been a great visual but would Cruz have allowed it ? His egotism and sense of outrage would probably have required him to disavow such an act by Trump.

    This is a very strange year. Democrats are worried that Putin is helping Trump. Maybe he is and maybe he wants someone he can deal with. Just a thought. Hillary can be bought but she is not very intelligent.

  5. Big Maq Says:

    “Humility and kindness is all Trump needed to show” – Neo quote from RedState

    People put great stock in the opposite qualities, and interpret that as “strength”.

  6. Brian Swisher Says:

    Imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever.

  7. Bill Says:

    I too have been amazed at how ungracious, bullying and disunifying the Trump campaign is. I mean, he should WANT guys like Cruz to hold their senate seats, because won’t he WANT a GOP senate?

    But I think Trump and his followers have decided that being gracious, kind, humble are losing propositions. He’s come quite far being anything but, and I don’t see him changing.

    In November, this strategy of belligerence, revenge, and scorched-earth will either be shown as “genius”, having upended all the rules of normal GOP politics, or will be seen as hubris leading to defeat.

  8. vanderleun Says:

    I think that RedState has been riding on the NeverTrump train since before it left the station. Still, as the French say, “An agreeable person is a person who agrees with me.”

  9. junior Says:

    Mike –

    If Trump would have backed off from the attacks on Cruz’s family, then Cruz might have allowed it. Remember, the family attacks are the stated reason why Cruz is so upset with Trump.

    But Trump won’t stop with the attacks.

  10. Kae Arby Says:

    The thing about it is that Trump and his supporters didn’t even have to half as far as dvdmsr suggested. All they had to do was bite their tongues, maybe give some tepid applause at the end of Cruz’ speech. Cruz would have gone back home to Texas and the issue would died a quiet death.

    I think that there’s more to this than a lack of self control. If what I’ve heard, about Manaforte encouraging Trump supporters to boo Cruz, is true then the only logical conclusion is that Trump wants this fight as an excuse for his superPAC against Cruz and Kaisich.

    KRB

  11. geokstr Says:

    Bill Says:
    “In November, this strategy of belligerence, revenge, and scorched-earth will either be shown as “genius”, having upended all the rules of normal GOP politics, or will be seen as hubris leading to defeat.”

    No it won’t, at least as far as Trump and his slavish acolytes are concerned. Cruz has been set up to be the scapegoat if Trump loses.

    Trump is incapable of constructive introspection, and will lash out in rage at Cruz and conservatism if he doesn’t win. Hell, he might even do that if he wins.

  12. Wooly Bully Says:

    In other words, suppose that Donald Trump wasn’t Donald Trump, but some other guy with a modicum of class. Like who? Oh, say, Ted Cruz, maybe?

  13. Richard Saunders Says:

    Baklava — Personal responsibility? Have you listened to the Bernie Saunders convention speech? Elizabeth Warren’s? Have you seen interviews with Saunders supporters? Are you joking

    Junior — It’s a binary solution set, a Marvel Comic: Asshole vs. Criminal! We pick Asshole. You pick Criminal. I haven’t met anybody who defend Trump’s assininity. But I’ve met plenty of people who defend Hillary’s criminality. If that’s who you want running the country, be my guest.

  14. OlderandWheezier Says:

    No, wooley, I just wish that I had even the slightest indication – and I don’t, from what I’ve seen up to now – that Trump would have enough sense to realize that it’s far past time to keep feeding only the terminally butthurt jackals who got him nominated, and actually consider the importance of having some sort of unified support between now and November.

    And I, like millions of others, am not willing to give him a pass by claiming over and over that the other guy did it, too.

  15. Dennis Says:

    One of the best descriptions I have read of Malignant Narcissists is by Barnhardt. She maintains that narcissists get maximum “narcissistic satisfaction” when other people defend their antisocial behavior while the narcissist knows full well he or she is guilty.

    Based on her analysis of narcissists, Trump would find the present situation especially rewarding since he now has thousands of people including Rush Limbaugh defending him after he has knowingly lied repeatedly and a good man. Along the same vein, Trump’s remark that his followers would defend him even if he shot someone in the middle of the street reveals him openly reveling in the same narcissistic satisfaction.

    http://www.barnhardt.biz/

  16. Ymarsakar Says:

    Trump’s remark that his followers would defend him even if he shot someone in the middle of the street reveals him openly reveling in the same narcissistic satisfaction.

    That’s the benefit of having slaves, servants, and vassals. They don’t get to talk back to the Master. Humans are genetically coded to follow power, whether as slaves or serfs. That’s part of the human nature and poison.

  17. Ymarsakar Says:

    Trum the supposed “Alpha Male” needs Cruz’s endorsement or merely demands it as part of his due. But a real Alpha has hidden resources, and doesn’t help people who are against common interests. The Alpha or leader in any hierarchy, is the one with the most resources or the capability to call upon those resources. Trum seems to understand that if Cruz doesn’t bow to Trum, Trum can’t be the recognized leader of his popular clique, even if he obtains power.

    Cruz also understands that selling your own resources for little to no gain, may provide short term benefits, but in the long term is a losing proposition for your alliance and clan. It’s sort of like tribute and selling out to terrorists. They will merely come back for more. Then when you run out of resources, you lose your power to protect your clan, your clan gets sold in slavery, The End.

  18. junior Says:

    Richard –

    I’ve met posters over at AoSHQ that defend Trump’s actions against Cruz. Perhaps the reason why you haven’t is because you’ve never called any of Trump’s fans on the way that he’s gone after Cruz’s family?

  19. Big Maq Says:

    “I haven’t met anybody who defend Trump’s assininity.” – Richard

    Your definition of “assininity” must be rather narrow to have never come across such defenders.

  20. AMartel Says:

    Yup. All Trump had to do was be gracious. That was just not in his wheelhouse. He knew well in advance what Cruz was going to say. All he had to do was say Thanks, Senator. Couldn’t manage that. Instead, he and his thronesniffers, on the floor of the convention and in the media skyboxes, had a profile in courage moment beating on the guy they’d already beaten. Cruz is going to be fine. Plenty of people saw that for what it was.

  21. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    It would have taken a much less egotistical and smarter man than is Trump to have taken the high road. But then, the same is true of Cruz, who choose petty revenge, even at the cost of assisting Hillary.

  22. Ymarsakar Says:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/07/ted-cruz-2020.html

    They don’t need to “defend” Trum. The Alt Right and Democrat pillars of Trum’s vassals and support, don’t think Trum did anything wrong, thus no defense is necessary. They don’t even “carry water” because the attacks against Cruz might as well have come from the grassroots level as it came from Trum. Same mentality even.

  23. Ymarsakar Says:

    But then, the same is true of Cruz, who choose petty revenge, even at the cost of assisting Hillary.

    See, this is what I was talking about. People want and demand the resources of leaders like Cruz. Because they don’t get it with threats and character assassination, they keep doing it, like some insane person who does the same thing over and over again because it doesn’t work. Except for them, it does work. If you criticize Republicans as badly as Dems did to you all, on racism and whatever, REpublicans will fold. That’s why they use that on Cruz, and they ramp it up because they think it works. For the most part, it did work against the GOP E.

    The idea that building a coalition is about alliances and mutual interest… it’s not what people have fallen into. This is more like a cult, where the fear of being ostracized is why you bow the knee and provide your resources to the cult leadership.

    It is mighty hypocritical for those people to then declare that they are the Righteous defenders of Western civilization against the evils of the Left (HRC). Becoming evil is not going to fight evil. The House of Evil is not divided.

    The idea in America, anywhere, that I have to side with the local street boss because “it’d be a shame if something bad happened to your nice home and family” is stupid, even before it is coercive.

  24. neo-neocon Says:

    Geoffrey Britain:

    Cruz’s speech was neither petty nor vengeful.

  25. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    The proposition that “the [lesser] enemy of my [greater] enemy is my friend” has validity, when the mutual enemy is the stronger and whose victory promises the end of effective resistance.

    After the stronger enemy is defeated is the time for temporary alliances to end. Criticism of Trump that does not elevate Hillary before the election is fine.

    After the election of Trump is when criticism that holds his “feet to the fire” is entirely valid.

    End the greater threat, then turn to the lesser.

  26. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    neo,

    I only disagree in regard to his “vote your conscience”.

  27. JK Brown Says:

    And that would not have changed one vote among Cruz’s supporters. Those who will voter for Trump still will and those who won’t won’t.

    But Trump being something different and not aligned with Cruz is what will cause independents and center Dems to give him consideration.

    This election, like the last two, won’t be won with just Republican votes and those Republicans who hate Trump don’t vote in states where their votes matter in regards to the electoral college.

  28. Artfldgr Says:

    the DNC is a circus… Mississippi flag had to be protected till someone took it down… no US flags, but a pakistani flag, a north korean flag (a la bernie) and lots of soviet flags… if Dems still vote for dems after watching that, then truly, there is no hope for the republic, as NOTHING will dissuade them from becomine state slaves and taking the rest of the world with them… as the US is the lynch pin against such so far. should i also add the blame Russia for the email break in, so that you can somehow blame trump for getting along with putin, the person hillary really wanted to get a long with, but couldnt find a russian to translate her button.

    this is making the old movie with the now gone ritter about having telethon to save the USA which wa broke,more believable than the reality

    on another note, the BEEB has decided to turn one islamic terrorist into a victim of himself, rather than admit he is a terrorist.

    a Syrian asylum seeker launched a suicide bombing attack against innocent Germans in Ansbach on Sunday. Here’s how the BBC presented the story: [image]
    http://moonbattery.com/graphics/BBC-ansbach.jpg

    i wonder if they will claim the priest who got his throat slit for ISIS tripped and accidently was murdered

  29. Artfldgr Says:

    junior Says: And the worst of it is that every time I point to Trump’s awful behaviour toward Cruz, Trump’s defenders bend over backwards to justify his actions.

    he was less bad than adams and jefferson, so whats the beef? or do you think that there IS a substitute for victory?

    if Cruz could not defend himself in a culture of victim worship when victimized, you can bet he would lose to hillary, who he could not fight back at given she is a woman… (but trump can, as to him, and people like me, that lady is no lady)

    its ridiculous that this is still under discussion while we are ignoring the 57 ring circus of freaks and wackos and dnc characters…

    67 speeches – not one word about ISIS
    lots of flags – but no US flags
    chairman had to leave being booed out

    by the way…
    if you think that Trump was bad to cruz, how about the left calling every candidate including reagan a hitler? potential rapist but rapist bill? illegally collding for decades? working against the people? ignoring their oaths of office? and on and on and on.

    meanwhile… All trump has done is call things as he sees them, and your not going to get traction to convince trump supporters because all you have is another cog in the big machine posing as something else, and they are on the side of someone who IS something else.

    Bad Lip Reading Hilariously Spoofs Ted Cruz’s Speech at the RNC
    http://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2016/07/26/bad-lip-reading-hilariously-spoofs-ted-cruzs-speech-rnc/

    direct to the vid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkbx5U7EVU

    its going to be funny over time if war dont start…

  30. OM Says:

    “vote your conscience” is being petty and vengeful? Some words mean things without needing a special gnostic dictionary.

    Trump knew those words were in the speech when he “approved” it.

    Others have criticized Cruz appearing at the RNC convention, Andrew Klavan for example, but “petty and vengeful” was not the basis of the criticism.

  31. Baklava Says:

    Richard Saunders wrote:
    Baklava — Personal responsibility? Have you listened to the Bernie Saunders convention speech? Elizabeth Warren’s? Have you seen interviews with Saunders supporters? Are you joking

    Ugh. Yep. I torture myself watching debates, the DNC, the RNC and over the last 8 years Obama speeches…. I’m a self-torturer.

    What I don’t get is why people don’t get this point.

    We’ve seen MORE transfer of wealth over the last 8 years. Every conceivable way of taxing. Taxing/Fining the young and healthy to pay for subsidizing others with health care. Taxing and fining every which way in liberal cities and liberal states. Taxing higher at the federal level and what has it given???

    Nothing but more dependency a shrinking middle class and those at the bottom 2/5ths of the pie have lost ground. African Americans, have lost $2,400 in wealth and lost in employment numbers, California has the highest poverty rate in the nation, I can go on and on.

    Who gains with personal responsibility?
    THose who exercise, learn, study the facts, educate themselves, save money, spend wisely, teach their kids well. etc.

    Democrats can continue to take. I’ll always do better.

    We do not need a savior .

    Democrats seem to NEED a savior.

    When we find a savior the media and Democrats will tear that person apart with falsehoods.

    Trump tears himself apart.

  32. Artfldgr Says:

    how the event of the past thats irrelevant today is being sounded out:

    Having been invited to give a short speech endorsing Trump, Cruz instead gave a long speech about seemingly everything but voting for Donald Trump. While the speech started off in relatively positive fashion for Ted, the longer he droned on his naturally slow and smug manner without any hint of endorsement, the crowd became restless and then the inevitable happened: Ted Cruz found himself looking out a sea of people who had just realized that they hate him very much.

    and Cruz wife is not all that stable:

    During her transition to Texas for her husband’s career, Heidi experienced a period of depression and was found by a police officer on the grassy portion of an expressway. She has since adjusted and took an unpaid leave of absence from her job (investment manager at Goldman Sachs), to help Ted during the presidential campaign.

    (and they always leave out her CFR creds too)

    Ronald Reagan’s 1976 Speech: ‘There Is No Substitute for Victory’
    (no sh*t)

    now here is a fantasy that Cruz could have made happen (Again)

    Mr. President, Mrs. Ford, Mr. Vice President, Mr. Vice President-to-be, the distinguished guests here, you ladies and gentlemen. I was going to say fellow Republicans here but those who are watching from a distance (including) all those millions of Democrats and independents who I know are looking for a cause around which to rally and which I believe we can give them. Mr. President, before you arrive tonight, these wonderful people, here, when we came in, gave Nancy and myself a welcome. That, plus this, plus your kindness and generosity in honoring us by bringing us down here will give us a memory that will live in our hearts forever.

    -=-=-=-

    And then as I tried to write-let your own minds turn to that task. You’re going to write for people a hundred years from now who know all about us, we know nothing about them. We don’t know what kind of world they’ll be living in. And suddenly I thought to myself, “If I write of the problems, they’ll be the domestic problems of which the President spoke here tonight; the challenges confronting us, the erosion of freedom taken place under Democratic rule in this country, the invasion of private rights, the controls and restrictions on the vitality of the great free economy that we enjoy.” These are the challenges that we must meet and then again there is that challenge of which he spoke that we live in a world in which the great powers have aimed and poised at each other horrible missiles of destruction, nuclear weapons that can in a matter of minutes arrive at each other’s country and destroy virtually the civilized world we live in.

    And suddenly it dawned on me; those who would read this letter a hundred years from now will know whether those missiles were fired. They will know whether we met our challenge.

    Whether they will have the freedom that we have known up until now will depend on what we do here. Will they look back with appreciation and say, “Thank God for those people in 1976 who headed off that loss of freedom? Who kept us now a hundred years later free? Who kept our world from nuclear destruction?”

    And if we fail they probably won’t get to read the letter at all because it spoke of individual freedom and they won’t be allowed to talk of that or read of it.

    and in the end, THAT’S how you give a speech when your the loser…

    At 11:26 p.m., close to an hour and a half after the end of Cruz’s convention speech on Wednesday, Clinton tweeted, “Vote your conscience” with a link to a voter registration page.

  33. Artfldgr Says:

    The Council on Foreign Relations was founded in 1921 by Edward Mandell House, who had been the chief advisor of President Woodrow Wilson. Actually, he was more than just a prominent aide of the President; he dominated the President. He was referred to as Wilson’s “alter ego” (other self), and was credited for being the most powerful individual in the United States during the Wilson Administration from 1913 until 1921.

    House was a Marxist whose goal was to socialize the United States. In 1912, House wrote the book “Philip Dru: Administrator” in which he stated that he was working for “Socialism as dreamed of by Karl Marx.”

    In this book, House laid out a plan for the conquest of America, telling how both the Democratic and Republican Parties would be controlled, and be used as instruments in the creation of a socialistic government.

    And he asked for the establishment of a state-controlled central bank, which were both proposed in “The Communist Manifesto.”. And it was in 1913, during the very first year of the House-dominated Wilson Administration, that both of these proposals became law. The Federal Reserve Act was passed, which brought into power a private central bank to create the money of the United States, taking this power away from the united States Congress. And the 16th Amendment to the United States Constitution, the graduated income tax as proposed by Karl Marx, was also ratified.

    In 1921, House and his friends formed the Council on Foreign Relations whose purpose right from its conception was to destroy the freedom and independence of the United States, and to lead the country into a one-world government.

    In the late 1920’s, important financing for the CFR came from the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Foundation. In 1940, at the invitation of President Roosevelt, members of the CFR gained domination over the State Department, and they have maintained this domination ever since.

    “The CFR is the American Branch of a society which originated in England, and which believes that national boundaries should be obliterated, and a one-world rule established.” – Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton’s mentor)

    and

    “The most powerful clique in these elitist groups have one objective in common — they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereingty of the national independence of the United States. A second clique of international members in the CFR comprises the Wall Street international bankers and their key agents. Primarily, they want the world banking monopoly from whatever power ends up in the control of global government.” Rear Admiral Chester Ward former member of the Cfr for 16 years

    [cruz wife is the link between goldman sachs and cfr which she was part of for 5 years… along with another member who was part of the campaign, and who ignored the constitution, was found guilty, started the cocaine crack epidemic to fund weapons for iran, and overthrow of a south american country]

    “The ultimate aim of the CFR is to create a one-world socialist system, and to make the U.S. an official part of it.” Dan Smoot, a former member of the FBI Headquarters staff

    In 1944 and in 1948, the Republican candidate for President, Thomas Dewey, was a CFR member. In later years, Republicans Eisenhower and Nixon were members of the CFR, as were Democrats Stevenson, Kennedy, Humphrey, and McGovern.

    -=-=-=-=-=-

    In one of the CFR’s annual reports, published in 1978, it listed a membership of 1,878 members. Eleven of its members at this time were United States Senators, with even more Congressmen belonging to the organization. 284 of its members listed in this report were United States Government officials. And the Chairman of the Board of this immensely powerful pyramid was stated as being none other than David Rockefeller himself.

    -=-=-=-=-=-

    “Its members have run, or are running, NBC and CBS, ‘The New York Times’, ‘The Washington Post’, ‘The Des Moines Register’, and many other important newspapers. The leaders of ‘Time’, ‘Newsweek’, ‘Fortune’, ‘Business Week’, and numerous other publications are CFR members. The organization’s members also dominate the academic world, top corporations, the huge tax-exempt foundations, labor unions, the military, and just about every segment of American life.”

    so if your wondering how all of this gets aligned and coordinated and yet the candidates dont do it themselves, guess what (and its not my opinion, its Barry Goldwater…

    2 b cont.

  34. parker Says:

    GB,

    I read that your father loaded James Earl Ray’s rifle and was his spotter when he murdered MLK. Oh, and your mother was a whore and you wife is moonbat crazy and works for Chase which funneled millions into your Cayman bank accounts.

    Plus, when you were 8 you set a cat on fire and tortured a baby robin that fell out of the nest. And, there may be very credible evidence that you are a pedophile. Now please endorse me as I seek to become Emperor of Iowa.

    Its one thing to say you will vote for djt because he is the lesser evil and that those who disagree are wrong and are making the Shrew Queen queen if we fail to follow your lead. But what exactly is so scary, terrible about “vote your conscience”? You say you will hold your nose and vote for the donald as a matter of conscience because djt is a safer choice than hrc.

    Ok, that is your opinion and I can respect that. If some else refuses to vote for neither djt or hrc it is somehow not a matter of conscience and you can not respect their choice?

  35. Artfldgr Says:

    “Does it not seem strange to you that these men just happened to be CFR and just happened to be on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, that absolutely controls the money and interest rates of this great country without benefit of Congress? A privately owned organization, the Federal Reserve, which has absolutely nothing to do with the United States of America!” – Barry Goldwater states in his book, “With No Apologies”, on page 231

    “Not every member of the CFR is fully committed to carrying out Edward Mandell House’s conspiratorial plan. Many have been flattered by an invitation to join a study group, which is what the CFR calls itself. Others go along because of personal benefits, such as a nice job and a new importance. But all are used to promote the destruction of U.S. sovereignty.” – Jack Newell “Why A Bankrupt America?”, Project Liberty

    there are over 170 journalists, correspondents, and communications executives who are members of the CFR, and who do not write about the organization. Also, it is an express condition of membership that no one is to disclose what goes on at CFR meetings.

    so if you wonder WHO put obama up, guess

    “The CFR, dedicated to one-world government, financed by a number of the largest tax-exempt foundations, and wielding such power and influence over our lives in the areas of finance, business, labor, military, education, and mass communication-media, should be familiar to every American concerned with good government, and with preserving and defending the U.S. Constitution and our free-enterprise system. Yet, the nation’s right-to-know machinery, the news media, usually so aggressive in exposures to inform our people, remain conspicuously silent when it comes to the CFR, its members and their activities.

    “The CFR is the establishment. Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also finances and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitution Republic into a servile member of a one-world dictatorship.” Congressmen John R. Rarick

    “Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief.” page 72, of “Between Two Ages,” Zbigniew Brzezinski

    “Marxism disseminated on the popular level in the form of Communism, represented a major advance in man’s ability to conceptualize his relationship to his world.” “Between Two Ages,” Zbigniew Brzezinski

    David Rockefeller read the book and, in 1973, launched the new Trilateral Commission, whose purposes include linking North America, Western Europe, and Japan “in their economic relations, their political and defense relations, their relations with developing countries, and their relations with Communist countries.”

    “The original literature of The Trilateral Commission also states, exactly as Brzezinski’s book had proposed, that the more advanced Communist States could become partners in the alliance leading to world government. In short, David Rockefeller implemented Brzezinski’s proposal.” Newell

    Rockefeller appointed Zbigniew Brzezinski to be the Director of The Trilateral Commission.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    NEo just wrote about Carter and IRAN and Khomeni

    In 1973, Jimmy Carter became a student of Brzezinski, and a founding member of the Trilateral Commission. On March 21, 1978, “The New York Times” featured an article about Zbigniew Brzezinski’s close relationship with the President. In part, it reads:

    “The two men met for the first time four years ago when Mr. Brzezinski was executive director of The Trilateral Commission… and had the foresight to ask the then obscure former Governor of Georgia to join its distinguished ranks. Their initial teacher-student relationship blossomed during the campaign, and appears to have grown closer still.”

    During the 1976 political campaign, Carter repeatedly told the nation that he was going to get rid of the Establishment Insiders if he became president. But when he took office, he promptly filled his Administration with members of the Council on Foreign Relations (284 to be exact) and The Trilateral Commission, the two most prominent insider organizations in America. Included in this list of members of The Trilateral Commission were Walter Mondale and Dr. Henry Kissinger.

    “The effects of the Council on Foreign Relation and The Trilateral Commission on the affairs of our nation is easy to see. Our own Government no longer acts in its own interest, we no longer win any wars we fight, and we constantly tie ourselves to international agreements, pacts, and conventions. And, our leaders have developed blatant preferences for Communist U.S.S.R., Communist Cuba, and Communist China, while they continue to work for world government, which has always been the goal of Communism…

    “The real goal of our own Government’s leaders is to make the United States into a carbon copy of a Communist state, and then to merge all nations into a one-world system run by a powerful few.”

    Newell

    “The Trilateral Commission is international, and it is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power – political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical.” – Barry Goldwater

    maybe pay attention to the organizations coordinating and even marrying political members, and their efforts, unions, and more…

    or dont…

  36. Wooly Bully Says:

    Geoffrey Britain Says: ‘I only disagree in regard to his [Cruz’] “vote your conscience”.’

    So you’re against voting your conscience? Interesting. I’d certainly have to vote against my conscience to vote for Trump for anything higher than class clown.

  37. geokstr Says:

    Art:
    “by the way…if you think that Trump was bad to cruz, how about the left calling every candidate including reagan a hitler?

    Damn, if you see no difference between the way the Marxists attack us and the personally nasty, disgustingly dishonest and vicious way Trump attacked Cruz and his family, who should be allies, I’m ecstatic you and I are not “friends”, so I don’t have to watch my back all the time. Cruz is honest, has honor and integrity, while Trump and all his fanboys don’t even have a clue about what those are.

    I’ve been struggling with voting for Trump only because Hillary, but he, and people like you, are pushing me quickly towards writing in Cruz. Since we’ll be saddled with evil either way, what difference, at this point, does it make? At least she’ll be committing her evil in the name of the enemy, not mine.

  38. Richard Saunders Says:

    Baklava — I still don’t get your point.

    Of course, from a moral perspective, personal responsibility should be the standard, dependency should be avoided. But the Dems, particularly the Bernie supporters, WANT dependency, WANT to be free of responsibility. Listen to their chants. Listen to their interviews — “Free stuff! Free stuff! Give us more free stuff!” And what do Bernie and Hillary and Elizabeth Warren and the rest of them say? “We will give you free stuff! More and more free stuff! Just give us your vote and you will get more free stuff!”

    And in that, Hillary & Co. are being absolutely truthful. If it bankrupts the country, who cares, as long as the Eloi come out on top.

    So, what are you willing to do to stop them?

  39. expat Says:

    Trump could have said that he supported Cruz’s Vote Your Conscience message and that as he unfolds his cabinet choices and more detailed policy plans, voters will be able to give him their conscience vote. Trump is a community organizer just like Obama. He’s good at getting people riled up and not so good at concretely solving problems.

  40. OM Says:

    Artfldgr:

    How about putting your skills and wide knowledge (I’m not being sarcastic) to investigating/assessing the influence that Putin has or may exert on Trump?

  41. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    parker,

    I neither said nor implied that Cruz and his family hadn’t been grievously and unjustly assaulted. I never said that Cruz should have endorsed Trump. I entirely understand and support his refusal to endorse Trump.

    That said, it is the time and place in which Cruz encouraged anyone disinclined to vote for Trump to “vote your conscience” wherein my perception resides, that Cruz placed his justified, personal animus toward Trump ahead of fighting the election of Clinton.

    IMO, a principled refusal to vote for Trump is entirely understandable but tragically misplaced. At base, this election is about shifting America away from the cliff’s edge that the Left is leading America toward.

    When principle becomes suicidal, reconsideration is needed.

  42. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Assertions that Putin wants a Pres. Trump, fail to reconcile a fundamental obstacle. Trump may or may not build up our military, may or may not begin to restore our economic strength, may or may not restore our allies faith in America. But is there any doubt that Hillary will not? Is it really likely that Putin fails to grasp that?

    A Pres. Hillary is indisputably in Putin’s interest because a weak America is entirely to his advantage. But Putin, like the rest of us, does not know what a Pres. Trump will do and, at the geopolitical level, uncertainty is always reason for caution.

  43. Ymarsakar Says:

    So, what are you willing to do to stop them?

    You yourself, Richard Saunders, have admitted here that Trump is merely a delaying action. So how is a delaying action going to defeat the Leftist alliance? Even if H Rod Damn dies in some time before the next election, how are you going to destroy the Left’s power? Is Trump going to destroy the LEft for you? If so, that’s not a delaying action, that’s a Messiah/Savior complex.

  44. Ymarsakar Says:

    IMO, a principled refusal to vote for Trump is entirely understandable but tragically misplaced. At base, this election is about shifting America away from the cliff’s edge that the Left is leading America toward.

    None of these people with those thoughts, have been able to forward a single reason or argument why elections would defeat evil.

  45. Wooly Bully Says:

    GB: “When principle becomes suicidal, reconsideration is needed.”

    So, now you’re in favor of being unprincipled? Another interesting opinion. I would suggest that when you find yourself writing things like that, it’s you who should stop and reconsider.

  46. parker Says:

    IMO, we are on track for a global financial melt down that will make 2008 look like a pothole in the road to financial stability. I will not provide links as to why that is my opinion. Everyone can google it, you will find plenty of articles from credible people who agree. Of course you will find articles from experts who will tell you just the opposite. If interested, investigate and come to your own conclusion.

    While I will not vote for hrc nor djt, I want the crisis, which I believe will occur within the next 4 years, an albatross hanging from the neck of the candidates

  47. parker Says:

    Oops, candidates with a big fat D after their names.

  48. parker Says:

    GB,

    I hear you, I understand your reasoning. I have pondered this dilemma since the Indiana primary. I have come to a different conclusion, with the caveat if the polls November 7 show Iowa razor thin. Should that come to pass I will make my final decision in the voting booth.

    PS – Please provide proof you are not a pedophile and do not beat your wife. 😉

  49. OM Says:

    When a basic assumption of argument is that the american public are incompetent and incapable of governing themselves, how can they learn from their mistaken behavior? It would seem that line of thought considers us less than conscious, thinking individuals, worthy only to be led by a wise and benevolent master or cabal, “the wise and worthy.”

    And since the Marxist leftist march is apparently, to such thinkers, inexorable, and only to be delayed by a totalitarian or statist from the alt-right, before a civil war, why will the american public fight against the state, since we are too incapable and incompetent to know what to fight for?

    I doubt that Putin worries too much about Trump’s irrationality, I suspect he has Trump by the short hairs, through hacked emails and all. Putin after all has been known to murder opponents, by Polonium, and other means. He is not a real estate developer, unless you consider Georgia and the Ukraine real estate.

  50. parker Says:

    GB,

    BTW, I do not feel my conscience is tragic or suicidal. I am just an aging Iowa farm boy, that possesses the skills and common sense I learned on the farm. No great intellect am I. But I pay attention and watch which way the wind blows. Forget the horse race for a moment and look at the BDI and commodities across the board. Also look at sovereign and corporate debt. Looks like a bad moon rising to me.

  51. parker Says:

    OM,

    Have you been listening to Alex Jones? 😉

  52. OM Says:

    parker:

    Who? Nope, I listen to podcasts from Klavan, Shapiro, Levin, Midrats, Ace, and Hewitt. Hannity, Savage, Rush are all dead to me.

    Putin is far more ruthless and cunning than the real estate developer.

  53. parker Says:

    GB,

    Insult my wife and drag her through the mud, accuse my pop or mom of heinous crimes, do not expect me to play nice. The donald was lucky Cruz did not eviscerate him at the podium, whi h is a task easily done. That is what I would have done with a 357 strapped to my belt. And that is why I am not a politician.

    Cling to honor when confronted by those possessing no sense of honor and honesty. Its what gentlemen do.

  54. parker Says:

    OM,

    Please note the 😉

  55. OM Says:

    I saw the smiley guy, not a problem.

    Hope you had a good time at the “coast.” We don’t say we’re going to the ocean, or the shore out here in WA and OR. We may go to the “Sound” or to the “San Juans” though if we stay in WA.

  56. parker Says:

    GB,

    Somehow, you just don’t (IMO) get it. Ok, you imagine djt is superior to hrc. So be it. “Trump may or may not” but that does not inspire comfidence. Yes, we know her animus to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Djt does not inspire a tiny grain of faith of a candle in a hurricane that he would be different.

  57. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Ymarsakar,

    What specifically, will in your opinion, defeat the evil we face?

    Wolly Bully,

    When standing on principle, makes defeat more certain, then one must ask, how is doing the same thing, going to lead to different results?

    parker,

    I too was long ago persuaded that sovereign bankruptcy is mathematically unavoidable.

    It is not conscience that I question but the wisdom of allowing the Left further gains than are necessary.

    PS: I would if I could but I can’t, so I won’t ;-}

    OM,

    The elections of 2008, 2012 and now a ‘choice’ between Trump and Clinton are IMO, not an assumption but demonstrable proof of an inability to wisely self-govern.

  58. parker Says:

    Well, according to some, unnamed, we should line up and drink the poisoned Kool Aid. Jim Jones hollowed be thy name. You won’t find me at the back of the line.

    Live with it, and may it haunt you in the moments before you draw your last breath. As an agnostic, I still believe in a soul, however defined. Careful where you walk, life is a vast minefield.

  59. parker Says:

    GB,

    I get it, but I simply disagree. Perhaps that is what divides FLA from flyover country. You got oranges and sunshine, we got corn, soybeans, pork, chickens, and cattle. Let the hunger games begin. 😉

  60. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    parker,

    I get that there are many indications that Trump will do little to none of the things he promises and NO evidence that he will fulfill any ‘promise’. I have ZERO faith in the man.

    But I cannot escape the conclusion that Hillary will be far worse because of the forces that stand behind her and the ideological agenda that they hold, which is far more antithetical to liberty, than is Trump’s authoritarian crony capitalism. The threat from the alt-right can’t hold a candle to the left’s threat to our liberties. Not because it’s less malevolent but because it’s far less ideological in it’s antipathy toward reality.

    Yes, reality… the Left is at war with the reality within which we exist. They know better, not just better than you or I but better than God. They can make things better than how they are… it’s not progress they seek but control, of everything.

    All ‘isms’ on the left, to one degree or another, reject basic aspects of human nature and fundamental aspects of the external reality within which we all exist. And because they do, they are unsustainable without ever greater repression of our liberties and unalienable rights.

    And that is the only reason why I will vote for Trump.

  61. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    There’s plenty of meat running wild here and the many lakes and ocean full of fish.;-) It’s not what you have, it’s what you can make do with what you have. It’s not just country boys that can survive. Adapt, innovate and overcome.

  62. OM Says:

    Three data points do make a trend, you extrapolate far beyond what is reasonable. Whatever.

  63. neo-neocon Says:

    JK Brown:

    I am in total disagreement with you.

    There are plenty of Cruz supporters who would like to be able to vote for the Republican candidate (and therefore against Hillary). Trump could have gone a long way towards winning many of them over with a gesture like that—and what’s more, they were watching the GOP convention and particularly Cruz’s speech, so they would have witnessed Trump’s magnanimous gesture. Instead, they saw his petty vindictive divisive side.

    Any Democrats or Independents who are voting for Trump or considering voting for Trump were not even watching Cruz’s speech. That’s the first point. The second is that what motivates them to think of voting for Trump has nothing to do with Cruz and everything to do with immigration, trade, etc..

  64. AesopFan Says:

    Artfldgr Says:
    July 26th, 2016 at 5:09 pm
    The Council on Foreign Relations was founded in 1921 by Edward Mandell House, who had been the chief advisor of President Woodrow Wilson. Actually, he was more than just a prominent aide of the President; he dominated the President. …

    House was a Marxist whose goal was to socialize the United States.
    * * *
    Interesting to see this in the context of neo’s post about how Khomeini told the world what he would do when in power (while lying to the enablers trying to put him in place of the Shah). Hitler did not make his goals a secret (although he dissembled on the Final Solution once he was in place to implement it).
    Evil succeeds because either Good men simply don’t believe it, or Henchmen run interference so that they never see it.

  65. AesopFan Says:

    Geoffrey Britain Says:
    July 26th, 2016 at 11:38 pm
    parker,

    I get that there are many indications that Trump will do little to none of the things he promises and NO evidence that he will fulfill any ‘promise’. I have ZERO faith in the man.

    But I cannot escape the conclusion that Hillary will be far worse because of the forces that stand behind her and the ideological agenda that they hold, which is far more antithetical to liberty, than is Trump’s authoritarian crony capitalism.
    * * *
    This is persuading me (very reluctantly) to support Trump, because my conscience won’t let me enable a Clinton victory by doing otherwise.

  66. Matt_SE Says:

    Reagan never endorsed Ford. The two loathed each other.

  67. Big Maq Says:

    <em"While I will not vote for hrc nor djt, I want the crisis, which I believe will occur within the next 4 years, an albatross hanging from the neck of the candidates"

    Recall how the world was going to freeze over, before it became global warming, which has now diminished into “climate change”?

    Have been around long enough to have seen several cycles of pending doom and gloom (financial and otherwise – always seems to be 4 or so years out) predicted by many credible “prophets”. 2008 was the closest we’ve come and it seems we can count on one hand people who put their money where their mouth was and made a fortune.

    Of course, it is unsustainable if we continue along the same path, but any surety of this all coming to a head in the next four years is becoming a cliche, as good folks (and a lot of charlatans) have been predicting as much since the last election, at the least.

    Not to say I am unaware of the unprecedented level of borrowing by nation states (buoyed by zirp, qe and all that) and the colossal unfunded liability heading our way with the baby boomers retiring / aging.

    Japan has been bumping along for around 20 years, in a similar zone that we now find ourselves at. Crisis in the next four years,? IDK.

    IMHO, the danger lurks where we don’t pay much attention…

    “…places like China look with red teeth and claws outward at the world as its natural prey. These people, the real barbarians, are deadly serious; daily I read and hear from people at all levels of society, intellectuals and peasants: “kill them all,” “kill all Americans,” “war now,” etc etc. … – the news is nonstop vitriol against America, Japan, and anyone who impedes Chinese ambitions.” – kolnai

    And one can bet the same or similar out of Russia and Iran, to name the other two biggest countries with ambitions that counter our own, and the west’s at large.

    We are all internally focused and divided, and that smells like opportunity to them.

  68. Matt_SE Says:

    I’m surprised that GB has taken such a position, since we used to agree about so much.

    What he’s doing is rationalizing away bad behavior. If he’s willing to erase any amount of bad behavior because the Democrat is worse, then he’s already agreed to be a slave because the Democrat will always be worse.

    Some lines don’t get crossed. Trump crossed them.

  69. jms Says:

    I don’t know. Look at the DNC. Sanders just essentially did that. Folded over and got in line and his supporters are livid. Their resistance to and hatred of Hillary Clinton is hardening to diamond-like levels.

    I think Trump did just the right thing. He gave the stage to Ted Cruz, knowing what Cruz was going to say. Cruz went up there and poor-mouthed Trump by refusing to endorse him and coyly telling his supporters that their conscience might lead to them not voting for Trump. Regardless of whether the boos were whipped-up or not, they seemed natural and real, not fake. Cruz need to to “have it out” with Trump, and Trump let it happen. Now their fight is over. What more could Trump give to Cruz. He won the delegates, he won the popular vote, he won the most states, and he gave Cruz the final word. The Cruz people are not happy, but their candidate didn’t sell out. They’ve got no legitimate reason to be furious any more. Sanders people do, or at least they think they do.

    I think it’s going to work out much better for the Republicans than you think. The Republicans have a small, disgruntled rump faction. The Democrats are fractured right down the middle!

  70. Tom G Says:

    Wow, @jms says a lot of what I was thinking — Cruz gives speech, fails to endorse Trump (as was known), gets booed, keeps his honor.
    Trump doesn’t “win” Cruz supporters by being nice, or Reagan like. They don’t like Trump and think he’s a louse; they continue to think that.
    But that fight is mostly done.
    Trump’s response might well be the best “winning thing”, even when I strongly think it was not “right”, nor noble, nor good.

    Trump wins Cruz supporters the same way Romney & McCain won those conservative voters — by being less bad than the Dems. And where else are the minority Conservatives going to vote? Pro-Life pro-Americans are gonna vote Libertarian?

    @Neo, your disagreement with @JK Brown is very key. For political junkies closely watching, Cruz was even more of an outsider vs the GOP establishment than Trump. But as a sitting senator, it might well be that far more mostly non-political folk think Trump is the outsider — and certainly the disdain of the elite Reps makes it look to normal folk that Trump is more anti-elite than Cruz. (You know I supported Carly, then Ted Cruz; now Trump & Reps in Congress)

    If Trump’s treatment of Cruz is how Trump will treat defeated Dems (which I hope for but doubt), that “punching back twice as hard” is very much what a lot of dejected conservatives, tired American patriots, frustrated law-abiding voters will find attractive.

    “Make America Great Again”. Ya, Trump, just do it. Give ’em Hell, Donny boy. Such Americans love a fighter, and especially a fighter who wins.

    “Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you … a loser”.
    This is not my attitude, but is actually what the Dem dominated education has promoted throughout the culture.

    To me right now, the outcome predictions: Trump big Win (10%); Trump close win (50%); Hillary close win (38%); Hillary big win (2%).

    Most RINOs are fully on the Trump Train; only a few elite continue with #NeverTrump.
    Principled conservatives (& Cruz supporters) — who ya gonna pull the lever for? Trump or nobody (Trump can ignore us now; tho he probably stupidly won’t);

    Trump is NOT a Conservative, so all the Dem-fed anti-Conservative stuff will mostly bounce off — leaving Trump looking like an anti-media hero enduring their unfair attacks.
    To Independents, and especially those who chose not to vote in 2012, Trump seems to look pretty good.

    Where is the data on what those who did NOT vote in 2012 think about this year?

    Trump and Reps in Congress.

  71. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Matt_SE @ 1:28,

    When have I explicitly excused Trump’s behavior, much less supported it? Mind you, not as some interpret my assertions but where I have directly expressed support for Trump’s inexcusable behavior?

    In some instances, I haven’t signed on to the most negative interpretation of his statements and behavior but I can’t recall minimizing it without an arguably justified alternative viewpoint.

    More concerning is a misunderstanding of my position. I do NOT support Trump, his behavior has been ABOMINABLE. He has yet to give even the slightest indication of how he plans to accomplish his promises.

    As I have repeatedly stated, the ONLY reason I will vote for him is because of the forces that will be enabled with the election of Clinton, which are far worse than the alt-right and I base that view upon the history of the Left’s past behavior, factual observation and their stated agenda.

    That is not rationalization but a coldly objective evaluation of which path is most likely to be survivable… based on the above and a very reluctant conclusion that a majority of the public has repeatedly indicated that it will vote for one path or the other.

  72. neo-neocon Says:

    Tom G:

    You make categorical statements that are unsupported, such as the fact that Cruz supporters could not have been won over by somewhat better treatment of Cruz by Trump.

    I disagree, and I’ve seen evidence for what I say: many Cruz supporters who have been looking to find reasons to support Trump because they detest a Hillary candidacy so much, but who have been turned off by him, and who have been especially turned off by his treatment of Cruz (it’s not the only thing by any means, of course, but for some it is in the nature of a final straw, particularly the post-nomination repetition of the charges against Cruz’s father).

    And where will they go? They have plenty of places to go rather than a person they find to be a loose cannon, not even a Republican much less a conservative, and an execrable human being. There’s not voting, there’s libertarian, and there’s write-in (some may even vote for Hillary in protest, although I think that’s a very tiny number).

    Trump has yet to break 45 in polls, and often is considerably less. Plenty of RINOs (people, not politicians) hate his guts and won’t support him. So do plenty of conservatives. And I have yet to see evidence that many Democrats or Independents are flocking to him, either. People keep saying it, but I don’t see that it’s happening in any significant numbers. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening at all, and it doesn’t mean the numbers won’t increase.

  73. OM Says:

    You overlook the coldly objective fact that his “promises” from day to day are mutable at best and often as not contradicted.

    “He has yet to give even the slightest indication of how he plans to accomplish his promises.”

    “That is not rationalization but a coldly objective evaluation of which path is most likely to be survivable… based on the above and a very reluctant conclusion that a majority of the public has repeatedly indicated that it will vote for one path or the other.”

    Do you feel out of place in the herd of unintelligent and incompetent who are incapable of making wise moral decisions?

  74. Ymarsakar Says:

    I’m surprised that GB has taken such a position, since we used to agree about so much.-Matt

    Agreement doesn’t mean we’re on the same side or are allies, for the moment. Understanding and common basis for mutual association, is shared by the Shia and Sunnis in Iraq. And look how horribly they hate each other, sometimes even beyond their need to unite against USA, the Great Satan.

    The USA often served a more important role in Iraq than killing terrorists or training the locals in security/elections. The USA often served as a neutral arbitrator for the Kurds, Shia, and Sunni clans. That was precisely because the USA was foreign and nobody truly understood the USA. But they understood and agreed with, and thus hated their neighbors. Although the Kurds and Armenians were always the odd “tribe”.

    The minor miracle that Lucifer gave to the House of Evil, was the inability to divide the House of Evil. Evil, for the most part, is weaker than the side of good because evil doesn’t like to cooperate. By uniting them in an alliance, similar to Mohammed’s Allah and later Caliphate, evil was able to gather together power beyond the petty squabbles of their enemies.

    In the Leftist alliance today, in Islam today, there are factions that hate each other even more than the ALt Right hates cuckservatives and enemies of the West. Yet none of those divides crippled the power of the House of Evil. A House divided will fall, someone once noted. There are only two Houses that did not, because they were of divine level. The House of God and Jesus Christ, which protected the tribe of Israel and the various other tribes under Covenant, which has now been extended to all of humanity by mere conversion. And the House of Lucifer, which provides humans with the power of the devil, domination over slaves and secular power.

    That is why good and evil still fight today on the Earth, although people often call it freedom vs tyranny. It is also why rebels who win, often end up like the French Revolution, the Iranian Revolution, the Cuban Revolution, and the Russian Revolution. When you Win Secular power, you become a vassal of Lucifer, and are now under his domain and authority. There are only a few exceptions to this case.

    I base that view upon the history of the Left’s past behavior, factual observation and their stated agenda.

    One thing I will note, GB, is that you recently converted from the Left’s alliance and from the Democrat party. Neo Neo converted in 2003, or thereabouts. You converted almost around 2006-2008 if I recall. Thus your view of the history of the Left, is a bit skewed and incomplete, like Horowitz’s.

  75. Ymarsakar Says:

    Have been around long enough to have seen several cycles of pending doom and gloom (financial and otherwise – always seems to be 4 or so years out) predicted by many credible “prophets”. 2008 was the closest we’ve come and it seems we can count on one hand people who put their money where their mouth was and made a fortune.

    That’s pretty funny B, because people like me already told you people that Peak Oil was a fantasy, that human technology would refine the petro industry to newer heights and either create new resources or find ways to use what we have more efficiently.

    Then Fracking came along.

    Reading too much Leftist Propaganda makes you fall for Shinseki’s lies, distortions, and other Democrat light bs. The same goes for Global Warming and Peak Oil. You aren’t immune, B, merely because you have a few more decades to go before you become competent in the Art of Propaganda.

  76. Big Maq Says:

    Forget trump’s authoritarian impulses, his comfort level in fomenting racial identity politics, his easy and frequent turns to personal animus when faced with opposition and critiques, and his mutability on policy.

    If we believe the country is headed in the overall wrong direction, is trump offering the solution?

    Emphatically, the “coldly objective evaluation” has to be … NO!

    His prior stances and his statements during his campaign promises to maintain big government, to expand executive office activism – bypassing Congress, and to essentially deliver many of the “solutions” that a Dem would.

    So, what does a 2020 campaign looks like on these fronts, should trump win…

    A GOP candidate cannot credibly argue a reversal of any of these aspects of a trump presidency, as the GOP would have had to support (or acquiesce) his action on them. The GOP would “own” trump and the results of his presidency.

    A Dem candidate would already have in place several leftist “solutions”, have the bonus of even greater executive flexibility, and have a gravely disappointed populace that had high expectations of trump that proved false.

    Voting trump to stop clinton does NOT stop “the march to Marxism” that is the core reason argued to avoid clinton. It seems it could, instead, accelerate it.

    And, this is without consideration of all the other flaws that come with trump.

    It is an illusion that carries with it the risk of something much worse.

  77. Baklava Says:

    Richard Saunders wrote:
    But the Dems, particularly the Bernie supporters, WANT dependency, WANT to be free of responsibility. Listen to their chants. Listen to their interviews — “Free stuff! Free stuff! Give us more free stuff!” And what do Bernie and Hillary and Elizabeth Warren and the rest of them say? “We will give you free stuff! More and more free stuff! Just give us your vote and you will get more free stuff!”

    Yep. But through the last 8 years how did the free stuff and dependency help anyone? Net worth for people in dependency has fallen. Their prospects have fallen. Their families have more free time and more angst and despair and more protesting (my guess) and more drugs.

    While people with personal responsibility do not NEED Trump or NEED Hillary. We’ll enrich our lives and continue to save, invest and try to figure out ways to ride it through the coming financial crisis.

    Who gets really hurt ? Look at Venezuela. THose who get really hurt were the ones who were dependent.

  78. Ymarsakar Says:

    Putin after all has been known to murder opponents, by Polonium, and other means. He is not a real estate developer, unless you consider Georgia and the Ukraine real estate.

    Quite so. The only real match for Putin was George Bush. But that was in a different American Age. Now we’re in Obamaca, not America. And soon to be Trumpcar or Clintonca.

    Part of the reason the Alt Right admires and supports Putin, is because Putin is perceived as a Defender of the Faith, specifically the Orthodox Christian faith. The Chalcedon thing.

    https://orthodoxwiki.org/Euphemia_the_Great_Martyr

    As for my pov, Euphemia sounded like a true prophet, with a very strong connection to the godhead, the Holy Ghost. But the Council of Chalcedon erred. Any spirit could have taken hold of her corporeal body, especially if an agent of evil had already desecrated the tomb after unsealing it. 1st AD Christendom, ended after the Council of Chalcedon.

    What a shame too, seems like the people back then fasting and praying, did things correctly. But they fell into secular power, the temptation and trap of.

    But Alt Right pro Westerners believe the Orthodox Church in Russia is the last remaining church that is protected by secular authorities. So they like Putin’s toughness and even expansionism. If people knew Russian, then they might be subject to the pro Russian propaganda, but Putin places far less emphasis on the Anglo Sphere, except as rivals.

  79. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    OM,
    “You overlook the coldly objective fact that his “promises” from day to day are mutable at best and often as not contradicted.”

    Stating, “I get that there … [is] NO evidence that he will fulfill any ‘promise’. I have ZERO faith in the man.” proves that assertion to be untrue.

    “Do you feel out of place in the herd of unintelligent and incompetent who are incapable of making wise moral decisions?”

    Churchill famously observed that, “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” How much truer is that today after more than a half century of leftist indoctrination in the schools and continually reinforced by the media? Proven by the fact that a majority of Americans WANT either Trump, Clinton or Sanders?

  80. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Ymarsakar,

    Playing the devil’s advocate; the Jewish diaspora, the Holocaust, genocidal Islamic hostility and a West that makes them a scapegoat would argue against the House of God still offering protection to the tribe of Israel.

    Small correction; while I was a liberal until the start of Bill Clinton’s 2nd term, I have never voted for either a democrat President or Congressman.

    And since the winners write the history books, all of us have a view of the history of the Left, that is a bit skewed and incomplete… even you.

  81. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Big Maq,

    As should by now be obvious, I agree that Trump is NOT offering a solution. My point continues to be that, since a majority of the public is determined to vote for either a Trump, Clinton or Sanders type, proven by its rejection of Cruz… no satisfactory constitutional solution is possible. Thus it becomes a case of the least harmful. Trump may be worse but that is doubtful given the nature of the forces that stand at Clinton’s side.

    The assertion that if the GOP supports Trump, it “cannot credibly argue a reversal of any of these aspects of a trump presidency, as the GOP would have had to support (or acquiesce) his action on them.” is IMO a valid one and I have also previously pointed it out.

    Unfortunately, that argument depends upon a public that can discern the predictable blame that the Left is certain to assign to the right, regardless of the truth. The elections of 2008, 2012 and now the choice of Trump or Clinton argue otherwise.

    Finally, I do not expect a Trump Presidency to stop the Left, at best I hope for a deflection. Given the Left’s control of the schools and media (and under Clinton, the internet) the Left cannot be constitutionally stopped, since they get a vote and have enough votes to block reform.

    I realize that’s a very big ‘pill’ to swallow and I do hope I’m wrong but fact and the reason that extends from those facts argue otherwise.

  82. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Baklava,

    Where do you think the Left will get more free stuff to give the dependent? It won’t be from the rich because they can flee. It will be from those who take personal responsibility seriously and do not NEED Trump or NEED Hillary. The evidence is the shrinking middle class.

  83. Baklava Says:

    You have a good point Geoffrey.

    Might I add. They will learn to vote FOR personal responsibility or continue to shrink.

    Trump does not advance the conversation. He mis-defines conservatism, free markets, and constitutional issues such as eminent domain, etc.

    He’ll have an entire generation misunderstanding conservatism.

    And so what?

    No. It’s not so what? We have so much to do to fix this country and he’ll hinder not help.

  84. OM Says:

    GB:

    And you are part of the majority voting for Trump. Mooo, baaa, ……. stamped ahead!

  85. Ymarsakar Says:

    Trump’s not the issue, even though his backers want to make it about white Trump nationalism (different from merely American patriotism). Some comments from VoxDay to shed light on the divide.

    211. Marie July 26, 2016 10:41 PM
    Nothing makes me want Trump to win and turn into the Evil King everyone fears more than reading this tripe from a worthless “conservative.”

    Sitting there acting like his hands are clean and this is all the left’s fault. YOU SOLD US OUT. You failed to act. Now it is our turn so get out of the way.

    You refused to protect your children. You don’t get a say in what happens to mine.

    What conservatives what to concerve, in places where it still exists, is civilization. What we want to impose where it does not exist is civilization. What we want to return to places where it has been lost is civilization.

    Civilization is a comples thing, but it has these seven ideas and four historic roots in common:

    Concervatives hold that truth is true, that virtue is good, tha beauty is real, that reason is valid, that all men are created equal ergo are to be judged by merit, not by birth, nor trusted with absolute power. We believe salvation comes from Christ, not Caesar.

    Historically, we defend the religious vision of Jerusalem, the philosophy of Athens, the republican ideals of Rome, and the common law of the English speaking people.

    We wish to preserve all the Left is vowed to destroy and regrow all they hace raized, raped, obliterated and burned.

    214. Snidely Whiplash July 26, 2016 11:15 PM
    Then, John, you are not conservative. You want a revolution.

    I am of the party of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Abraham Lincoln.

    By your logic, none of them are ‘conservative’ even though all sought to erect or protect the Constitution.

    The Left, and no one outside the Left, defines ‘conservative’ to mean ‘one who supports the status quo of whatever is in fashion regardless of content’ and not to mean ‘one who supports the principles of limited government in the abstract and the US federalist Constitution in particular, regardless of whether they are in fashion or not.’

    Forgive me for being blunt: it is not merely gullible, it is foolish and counterproductive to believe you can beat the Left while adopting their slanted and dishonest labels and definitions.

    The Alt Right and the Conservatives are now at odds, even though we are natural allies.

    I suggest directing fire against the enemy, not against the man next to you in the trenches.J C Wright

    Wright wrote some interesting science fiction novels. At the time, I didn’t know about his politics or religion.

    Elections, first and foremost, are about the people. The candidates are mostly window dressing. The people will get the leader they demand or clamor for.

  86. Ymarsakar Says:

    What conservatives what to conserve, in places where it still exists, is civilization. What we want to impose where it does not exist is civilization. What we want to return to places where it has been lost is civilization.

    Whoops, that was a different person from Marie. John C Wright wrote that starting from there, ending with S’s line.

  87. Big Maq Says:

    “I realize that’s a very big ‘pill’ to swallow” – GB

    I thought that pill was bitter!

  88. Ymarsakar Says:

    Playing the devil’s advocate; the Jewish diaspora, the Holocaust, genocidal Islamic hostility and a West that makes them a scapegoat would argue against the House of God still offering protection to the tribe of Israel.-GB

    The Jews are held to the Covenant, but they broke it several times. God seems to be determined to hold them to it, no matter how many thousands of years pass. It’s almost like an obsession, or an oath bound on the divine level.

    The House of Israel has a nation, which was what they were prophesied and promised. That after they were punished with the scattering, they would be brought back to the land of their forefathers. It’s better than what the Armenian and Kurds got. Or the Zoroastrians, what’s left of them in Persia.

    Certain Jewish tribes worked under Arab and Islamic lords, helping sell white blue eyed virgins from Europe to the Caliph or the Sultans. Even after all the violations of the laws of Moses, of the Covenant of the Ark, and various other divine laws, the House of Israel is still united and still prosperous, even outside of Israel the nation.

    If Islam ends up genociding the Yazidi, Kurds, and Armenians, what will be left of them? Not nearly as much, as the Jews were left after the Holocaust.

    It’s a minor miracle, that the House of Israel still exists, as a nation, as a people, even in exile. Major miracle, depending on point of view.

    Small correction; while I was a liberal until the start of Bill Clinton’s 2nd term, I have never voted for either a democrat President or Congressman.

    And since the winners write the history books, all of us have a view of the history of the Left, that is a bit skewed and incomplete… even you.

    That’s good to know, I’ll keep that in mind. As for the history books, that is also true. But it is also why I decided to seek out the truth, no matter the cost or what enemy I would make in the process, even if that meant all of humanity would be against me.

    It is also part of the reason I question VoxDay and the ALt Right’s “Christian Nationalism”, “Nationalism under Trumpcar”, and various other things happening recently. They are so afraid of the Leftist alliance and Islamic Jihad, that they would sell anything they own or will own, for Salvation. Even I, when I was enlightened as to the Left’s true nature beginning around 2007, was not so desperate and weak as to become a vassal of Human shit Lords, merely because of fear of evil. How low Americans have sunk, from the time of the Founding Fathers. Not that most people back then were saints, they were rather violent, stupid, primitive, and brutish. Those primitives had plenty of excuses for their behavior, being brought up under European heresies and stupidities. I wonder what excuses Americans have for their behavior now… the Left once again?

    Thus it becomes a case of the least harmful. Trump may be worse but that is doubtful given the nature of the forces that stand at Clinton’s side.-GB

    That argument has been used before with RNC primaries and contenders. It’s valid whenever there is a human power play. But this power play has gotten a little bit more serious. Now people are throwing around things like Cruz=Lucifer, even though they never would have against black Hussein or the Confederate Southern Baptist slave lords. Now H Rod Damn Clinton is even = evil. The Republican tendency to act Christian to even their enemies… has mostly evaporated by now, for good or evil. No, it’s not about Trum’s behavior. It’s about the behavior of the people voting, grassroots style.

    The pragmatic argument by GB would have been capable of convincing people to vote their conscience, for the conclusion of said argument, in some other time. But not now, not with the current context and situation. That type of persuasion is insufficient now a days.

    From between 2007-2012, I thought of humans, in the USA at least, as lacking sufficient hate to see the truth of the Left’s evil. Now that they have tasted a little bit of evil and got some hate, they still aren’t much better at accepting the truth or seeking for a power free of the Left’s evil corruption. They want the Left’s power, they want the Left’s megalomania, evil, and corruption, because they are afraid of.

    Frankly, they don’t qualify for salvation. Let them beg, burn, what does it really matter in the end. Humans are a renewable resource to the Left. Souls are eternal and not something the Left can mass manufacture. Humans will learn from pain and experience, that’s about it. I can tell them things, but that doesn’t allow comprehension.

  89. Richard Saunders Says:

    Baklava — but the Lefties think Venezuela and Cuba are SUCCESSFUL!

    Ymarsakar — you have to hold the line, with inferior troops if necessary, before you can deliver a crushing blow with your good troops. That’s where we are right now, containing the Bulge until another Reagan comes along.

    Eric is right — it will take years of counter-activism to defeat the Left by getting conservatives into colleges, high schools, and the MSM. It may be impossible. But a small defensive action, like not giving out free college education so that the Leftist professors can brainwash more kids, is a worthwhile tactic.

  90. fiona Says:

    I can see 2 possibilities from a Trump presidency| he loses interest in politics and goes on to something else. maybe a TV show. or 2 If he wants to get something done, he decides that the democrats in COngress are his allies – this especially likely if they take either house or if the GOPe (which currently is trying to reign him in, the better to reassume their cushy positions) gives him any trouble at all. In the latter case, you can rely on the media slobbering over him, which will undoubtedly entrench his preference.

  91. Ymarsakar Says:

    And I have yet to see evidence that many Democrats or Independents are flocking to him, either.

    Ymarsakar — you have to hold the line, with inferior troops if necessary, before you can deliver a crushing blow with your good troops. That’s where we are right now, containing the Bulge until another Reagan comes along.

    In that case, Saunders, I might as well wait for the Second Coming or the Rapture, there’s about as much evidence that they will happen in these days.

    Doesn’t really get me motivated gouging out Leftist and Cruz supporter eyes, for Trum boys, however. All that hate I had for the Left and other election bs, has waned over time. It’s still there, it’s just not controlling my actions.

    I have nothing against a delaying action. But if I’m going to be fighting a delaying action, the political elites had better act like they Aren’t Going to Stab me in the Back Once it is over. At least pretend to act like that, so someone like me, can’t perceive it…

    Even the damn Russians knew to point guns at fleeing troops, to turn them back, even if firing bullets was a waste. But later, they pretended it never happened.

    But a small defensive action, like not giving out free college education so that the Leftist professors can brainwash more kids, is a worthwhile tactic.


    I’ll believe it when I see it. Actions, not words and political Trum promises.

  92. Ymarsakar Says:

    And I have yet to see evidence that many Democrats or Independents are flocking to him, either.-Neo

    Oh right, I forgot I was replying to this originally.

    Some of those Democrats are whites on welfare, nationalists or former Democrat nationalists.

    They may not have been voting before, actually. Anyways, that group is kind of low economic class, where middle class Republicans don’t see much of them.

    They exist though. It’s not the middle class INdependents and Democrats moving to Trump, is my prediction.

  93. Matt_SE Says:

    Vox Day parrots the absurd and ignorant Party Line of the alt-right that “conservatives didn’t conserve.” They make this claim because they don’t actually understand that conservatives are a minority in Congress (less than 25%, by my reckoning).

    Just how a minority is supposed to bring a corrupt establishment to heel is never mentioned. But again, even asking the question would require them to understand the situation in ways they obviously don’t.

    I have a counter-accusation: The alt-right were here in this country when the establishment was selling us out. WHY DIDN’T THEY STOP THEM?

    You see how easy it is to turn their argument back on them?

    Vox Day runs a little clique of sycophants. You will be tolerated as long as you don’t point out their own hypocrisy. If you do point it out, you’ll be perma-banned, as I was.

  94. Ymarsakar Says:

    The alt-right were here in this country when the establishment was selling us out. WHY DIDN’T THEY STOP THEM?

    The Alt right didn’t exist back then, so they were busy with things like ALpha Game, internet marketing stuff, and gaming. Which isn’t an insult, btw, merely a statement of fact. The Alt Right is made as a anti Left alliance, they didn’t have common interests back then.

    Oh, VoxDay appeared politically Libertarian or Independent in 2010, looking at his interviews. Doesn’t mean God told him the truth about the Leftist alliance or Islam, however.

  95. Ymarsakar Says:

    Vox Day runs a little clique of sycophants. You will be tolerated as long as you don’t point out their own hypocrisy. If you do point it out, you’ll be perma-banned, as I was.

    Just so you know, VD doesn’t have time to “run” his blog. He writes stuff there, yea, but moderation is done by his employees or volunteers. It’s in the rules even.

    VD runs a partially self funded, but independent publishing house, from Italy or somewhere in Europe. VoxDay left the US by around 2008-2010, because of impending economic collapse. Well that stuff is always “impending” but nobody knows when it will. So he got out soon, but he seems to care a lot about US politics, even though he doesn’t consider himself an American. For such a person, of conflicting identities and intellect, coming up with that Cuckservative book would be expected.

  96. Matt_SE Says:

    Yeah, I noticed that he doesn’t have any skin in the game. If Trump turns out to be a disaster, we’ll all sleep better knowing that Day won’t suffer any consequences.

  97. Neo-Neo Con Encapsulates Why I Am Not Supporting Trump – The American Catholic Says:

    […] here to read the comments.  Riding a wave of voter resentment I think Trump is going to smash […]

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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