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Home » Further musings on a bunch of assorted things

Further musings on a bunch of assorted things

The New Neo Posted on by

Remember back when Trump was running in the primaries, and how his supporters excoriated Romney—particularly after Romney spoke out against Trump—for having been such a loser in 2012? I wonder if those same people are now rethinking how easily they put down Romney, and how much they underestimated how difficult it is to fight the Democratic coalition of politicians and press?

Yeah, it’s a rhetorical question. I doubt that many of them are in fact rethinking it. I think they either comfort themselves with the notion that Trump is still poised to win (which I believe is wishful thinking—but hey, stranger things have happened on this earth), or they praise Trump’s pugnacious style of fighting over its efficacy.

When Romney made that speech last March, I wrote:

…[D]oes anyone on earth think Hillary doesn’t have her own attack on Trump already planned, and that Romney’s will pale compared with hers? Let me assure you, of one thing I am certain, and that is that Hillary doesn’t need Romney to do her opposition research.

I think the truth of that is certainly obvious.

And I repeat, just for the sake of emphasis: yes, there would have been vicious attacks mounted on any GOP member who might have been nominated instead. And those attacks might have worked. But I don’t think so, because Hillary Clinton is a much much weaker opponent in 2016 than Barack Obama was in 2012. In addition, Trump was uniquely vulnerable, not just to sexual charges, but to a host of things based on his history and embarrassing videos (for example, they haven’t ever really used one topic that I thought they would use—his nasty personal and snobbish remarks that were part of his attempts to evict people in Scotland and Atlantic City). There’s so much to hit him with that it could go on every day for years and the supply wouldn’t be exhausted, and they wouldn’t even have to make stuff up or distort it; just show Trump being himself.

I was driving home from the market last night and turned on my radio. A talk show was going on—I have no idea whose it was—and I listened to about five minutes of it. It featured a woman railing against Trump, and then the host said to her, “So, you’re with Hillary, right?” “Wrong!” she practically yelled out, with great conviction.

Then she went on to say how bereft she felt, how she had no candidate to vote for at all. And the host agreed, and said, “Yes, there are a lot of us this year.” They briefly talked about writing someone in, and it struck my once again that if there could be a concerted campaign for one alternative write-in person, that person might actually have a chance.

But it’s not going to happen. Too hard to organize, too hard to get traction.

And I thought—not for the first time—how much this election reminds me of a Greek tragedy. You watch the play knowing it’s inevitable, but wanting to somehow intervene and stop it. The ancient Greeks felt that knowing the plot didn’t make the tragedy less keen; it made it more kenn.

The analogy breaks down, of course, because we certainly don’t know the details of the outcome. But we know we are caught in a terrible, somewhat-foreseeable mess, one that no one seems capable of stopping.

The reaction of a lot of people is to wash their hands of it all and retreat to private concerns and private pleasures. Others plot some sort of rebellion. Some cling to hope. I think it’s rather sad, however, that some reluctant Trump supporters consider the notion that Trump would be impeached if he overreaches to be a hopeful and comforting thought. It’s a thought I don’t happen to share, however—I don’t think it would happen. But I very much understand the need to take our comfort where we can, even if it’s cold comfort.

Comments

Further musings on a bunch of assorted things — 55 Comments

  1. Clinton rape protester beaten at Vegas rally…

    the other stuff you mention is mostly silly, the point of their siding against the establishment is that they are aware of the stuff you said… and you werent… or didnt care… or didnt think it counted… or are so used to suits and all that you cant imagine the rest of the nation being a part of the political process other than saying they agree or dont.. a far cry from what it was like… (the administrative state is here… welcome it… or else!)

  2. Neo, again I’m not taking comfort in the thought of Trump being impeached, in the unlikely event that he is even elected. I am simply saying that good COULD come out of it, if it forces the issue of actually examining the framework of our government. As long as people are ignorant of what the premise of our government is and how it should work, I hold out little hope for the Republic. And it is vividly clear that even among the supposed non-LIV, knowledge and understanding of our founding documents is scant.

  3. Any of the Republican candidates would have been the subject of crippling media attacks. Cruz, because he tends to wear his religion on his sleeve, would have been accused of wanting to establish a theocracy. Jeb would have been denounced as the second coming of the eevil GWP. And so on.

    With 4 years of Hillary Clinton, expect to see restrictions on free expression, increased Leftist capture of the judicial system, large-scale enabling of illegal as well as legal immigration, coupled with massive voter fraud, a reinforcement of academic bias and general insanity, and an even more toxic environment than the one we have at present.

    See my post Hiring a President:

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/53977.html

  4. “yes, there would have been vicious attacks mounted on any GOP member who might have been nominated instead. And those attacks might have worked. But I don’t think so, because Hillary Clinton is a much much weaker opponent in 2016 than Barack Obama was in 2012.” [Neo]</B.

    Regardless of the Republican nominee, these Democrat attacks were never going to be about policy because there is no Dem policy to defend. They were always going to be character attacks. They were always going to be vicious. They would have included lies and misrepresentations to whatever extent necessary for any other candidate. They would have always included the complicity of an enthusiastic media.

    If any of the other Republican candidates were unable to make there case and rise above the internecine attacks of the primary campaigns, how can anyone believe that they would have survived this partisan salvo with the MSM wind behind it?

    In lieu of all of this, Trump has done exceptionally well in surviving this attack; better, I dare say, than anyone could have envisioned. His problem is that he keeps tripping over his own feet.

    Neo, I think it’s safe to say that we disagree on this.

  5. “If any of the other Republican candidates were unable to make there their case . . . .

    Sorry. (I really miss my preview button.)

  7. Wolly Bully,

    If you look at the end of the first paragraph you will see that the stop-bold command is there. I somehow failed to complete it so it didn’t take effect. I repeat—I miss a working preview button; lost it when I went to Windows 8.

  8. The narrative for Trumpkins is already set:
    1) A stab in the back.
    2) Trump had to fight 53 enemies at the same time, unlike the losers Romney and McCain. So those aren’t fair comparisons.
    3) We always meant to lose and burn down the party.
    4) Trump wins by losing. Even in seeming defeat, he’s still playing n-dimensional chess!

    I’ve seen cultists less deluded.

  9. One suggestion – Evan McMullin for write-in
    https://www.evanmcmullin.com/
    .

    There are all kinds of angles of attack on any of the other 16 GOP candidates, but it is hard to see that they would have the scale of vulnerabilities for attack that trump has.

    They’d also likely already have started with a majority of GOP voters on their side. They could more easily unite the GOP and then focus on winning over those in the middle who are dissatisfied with clinton.

    They would have had solid backing – in funding and in talent – to run a consistent, disciplined, and well planned campaign.

    They would have taken advantage of the issues of the day, and not have ignored what obama was doing.

    They would have had a strong GOTV effort to match the dems.

    They would have represented a clear difference from four more obama years, rather than the confusion, bluster, and overlap with clinton we have with trump.

    Most (all? – Jeb would have sent the wrong message, IMHO, and would have struggled) of the other 16 would have been VASTLY different, and very likely superior to trump in almost every way wrt winning the election.

  10. “If you strike Trump down, he will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

  11. Clinton’s near-orgasm at assisting the killing of Khaddafi and her calling Putin another Hitler are more chilling than any Trump grope is offensive. And her belief that the US is the only indispensable nation is far more dangerous than Trump believing Obama was born in Kenya- or expressing anger if he does that he was vote rigged out of an election.

  13. T,

    I will admit I am amazed by djt’s ability to shoot his foot and continue to limp forward. Not something I look for in a POTUS, amazing nonetheless.

    DNW,

    I am trying to be less bitter and shrill, but it is a heavy burden. Am I learning? 😉

  15. I remember last fall — well, a year ago — thinking I would just abstain. Then I briefly, earlier this year, thought Well, maybe if Trump can pull off an upset it will lead to some chaos but then out of chaos will arise… something different than what we have now.

    Now I’m probably back to abstention. I live in Oregon, and Portland is as hard-left as San Francisco and dominates the state.

  17. Pro-Choice politics. Presumed guilty. Off with his head.

    As for the 11th hour abortion, JournoLists of the Fourth Estate, and spontaneous accusers, they lack credibility. This is not, or should not, be a baby trial.

  18. The only “good” thing about this whole sorry mess is that we are all probably going to be able to go to bed early on election night.

  20. The Democrats don’t eat their own. They start with the black vote, Hispanic vote, youth vote, union vote, single woman vote, gay vote, teacher vote, and university vote. The MSM covers for them. No matter who the Republicans picked, they would not have had enough support from conservatives.

    Trump is going to do for Republicans what McGovern did for Democrats. He will be crushed and will take some Republicans with him. He is a spoiled brat.

    The Justice Department and IRS are tuning up to go after conservatives and Christians.

  21. If a decent man like Romney is totally trashed by the media, then what difference at this point does it make? There is NO way to win. I will vote because it is my duty as an American. I will vote for Trump because I will NEVER vote for Hillary even if I had a gun to my head. That’s it.

  22. The choice was between a Quasimodo and a Benedicta Arnold. Quasimodo’s warts were too much to bear and so they choose the beneficent one who promised all things. Many knowing that her intentions were malevolent, comforting themselves with the promise that “all things pass”.

    Quasimodo’s warts were so offensive that they forgot the ancient proverb, “A promise is a comfort for a fool” and so they allowed Benedicta Arnold to throw open civilization’s gates to the barbarians and all was lost.

  23. Francesca,

    I welcome you to the shark invested waters circling the flimsy life boat.

    Mr. Frank,

    Trump is not our own, feel free to burn it down. 😉

  24. GB,

    No, it was a choice between Walker, Jindal, Perry, Rubio, Cruz, Fiorina, et al. Alas, nasty the donald idiot was chosen.

    DNW,

    Is this less bitter and shrill? I hope so because you are my hero/heroine when it comes to less bitter and shrill. Oh, one thing you should know: I am relentless.

  26. To all the Republicans complaining about how we can’t win.

    Here’s plan B

    – don’t nominate people like Donald Trump

    – Quit whining and giving your opposition more credit than they deserve. I know you won’t buy this, but Hillary was immanently beatable this time around. Republicans just chose the worst possible candidate to go up against here. This was all predicted, by the way, by Never Trump people

    – Get smart. believe in what you believe. Discard the Hannitys, Limbaughs, Coulters, Ingrahams, Fox News (by Discard I mean starve them for ratings) and develop an actual conservative media.

    – Keep your principles but widen the tent. Quit being afraid of black and brown people.

    Keep hope alive, work at the local and state levels this time around, do your best to oppose Hillary (assuming she wins) and focus on 2018.

    For crying out loud, learn from 2016.

    And get a spine. Whining about the media and the mean old democrats and how the deck is stacked against you doesn’t do any good.

  27. Bill,

    I hear you, but you neglected to menttion the lesson drilled into my head by grandfathersl, father, and uncles. Walk away, if you can walk away, wait a few weeks or months then slit their throat as they sleep.

    DNW,

    Am I less bitter and shrill? Please, I need your approval. I am a mere babe in the woods without your blessing.

  28. parker,

    Yes, it WAS a choice between 16.

    NOW it’s a choice between Quasimodo and Benedicta Arnold.

    Alas, reality is what is, rather than what we wish it to be.

    Bill,

    Too late, he’s the nominee. Take your own advice; quit whining and accept (not approve) what is or… accept the consequence. Accepting what is, starts with recognizing “water under the bridge” issues, which “what might have been” qualifies as.

    Get smart. The Left is never going to allow “an actual conservative media” to develop, which is what Obama’s “internet giveaway” is all about.

    You can’t “keep your principles” and widen the tent. It’s not the color of the individual’s skin, it’s the cultural values they embrace, neglect or reject. If they embrace America’s founding principles, the tent naturally widens. If they don’t, they don’t belong in the tent, whatever the color of their skin.

    Hope is a prayer, not a strategy. Future demographic realities make working at the local & state levels, at best a delaying action, as we move toward the collective at the national level. And the national level is the determinative cultural level.

    Facing reality isn’t whining, it’s the first course in survival 101.

    But labeling it “whining” is an excellent way to stay in denial.

  29. OM,

    Sometimes I think you go too far, but you are like me relentless.

    BTW, DNW, am I less bitter and shrill? By now you have read many of my comments about bitter and shrill, so have at it… let me know how you feel, am waiting.

    GB,

    If djt tops 100 in the EC I will buy you a case of your favorite beer and you need to buy the sea food. If djt tops less than 100 you buy a case of my favorite beer and I buy the best Iowa beef.

  30. I do not include you GB, and others, but for the trumpian horde, well, what I would say in polite company?.

    I have stated I would vote for djt if Iowa’s EC votes were close, but even then I would feel slimy and need a long hot shower.

    DNW,

    Was the above comment a bit less bitter and shrill? Please let me know because my soul essence hangs upon your every word.

  31. Francesca:

    Romney didn’t lose because the media trashed him. The people he lost that way were never going to vote for him.

    This is why he lost, IMHO:

    (1) He was running against a rather popular incumbent. Not popular with you or me, but still pretty popular with a lot of people. That counts for a lot.

    (2) He had a manner that was seen as distant, stiff, and patrician.

    (3) The “47%” remarks that were leaked.

    (4) Some people think Hurricane Sandy was a big factor in giving Obama a moment to shine, right before the election.

    (5) Some conservatives didn’t vote for him because he was considered a RINO. No one knows how many did this, or whether it would have made a difference, but the election was relatively close and it might have.

  33. GB,

    Not you, but I am a rentless SOB if someone crosses my boundaries. However. I am more than happy, if djt gets 100+ EC votes to meet you in FLA to trade beer for sea food.

    BTW, Am I being less bitter and shrill DNW? I hope so because I seek your approval with every breath I exchange with the atmosphere. Help, me help me before I smother from the AWG apocalyspe.

  34. Oh stupid me, its not AWG its AGW. You are right DNW, I am a bitter shrill idiot. Please, please, please pardon me for not realizing your supremacy about everything under the sun. You are indeed the second coming.

  35. Republicans continue to lose the culture war. “Free stuff” socialism looks good.

    Even 20 years ago, “Boot to the Head” for those who vote Republican was a common feeling among the cool, hip folk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZljpTx_tJ78&list=PLE1InrZfsJQmzE4Cq8OTDGzr0dPvpsn8d&index=9

    Hillary’s anti-Christian crusade will continue, and the exceptionalism of America will be reduced further.

    The weasels in the gov’t bureaucracies will get stronger, and more numerous, and there will be fewer of those with courage.

    Colleges will become more radical anti-Republican, anti-Christian, anti-conservative; while the graduates will be less and less educated yet feel more and more entitled.

    It’s looking like it’s gonna get a LOT worse before it gets better.

  36. neo-neocon Says:
    “Romney didn’t lose because the media trashed him. The people he lost that way were never going to vote for him.

    This is why he lost, IMHO:”
    You forgot a couple reasons:
    – because of RomneyCare, he was unable to hit Obama hard on what should have been one of the defining issues in 2012 – ObamaCare. Every time he tried, they just threw RomneyCare back at him
    – the IRS harassment of, and refusal to approve, Tea Parties and other conservative groups literally stalled the impressive momentum they had from the 2010 election. It prevented them from soliciting donations, discouraged donors through fear of audits, sapped their funds and energy responding to a myriad of illegal questions, and prevented 300 groups from taking part in the 2012 election.

    A research study done after the fact concluded that this cost Romney more votes than he lost by:
    Yes, IRS harassment blunted the Tea Party ground game

    And, as I’ve noted before, when the GOP not only failed to go after the IRS and the Obama administration with everything they had, but also saw many of the RINOs actually join the media and the Marxists in smearing them as racists, this was the break with the Republicans that led directly to much of the support for Trump.

    Imagine if all that energy and enthusiasm were behind Ted Cruz right now. Instead, Trump and the slimy alt-right successfully painted him as just another RINO with lies and smears.

  37. GB

    Too late, he’s the nominee. Take your own advice; quit whining and accept (not approve) what is or… accept the consequence.

    I have to accept the consequences. These are *your* consequences, btw. But we all live in the same country. I tried to warn you.

    Nice that you guys screwed up supporting this guy but I’m the one presented with the carch 22. It’s no dilemma at all. Let me put this as succinctly as I can

    I don’t vote for lying con men who are sexual predators

    That’s not a very high bar to clear. This isn’t some rxacting, legalistic principle

    I don’t vote for cruel bullying charlatans who like looking at naked teenagers against their will

    I don’t vote for guys who promise to commit war crimes

    I could go on. The better question is, why are you going on? When is enough enough?

    We increasingly don’t have a choice but to live with what HRC will bring. You are counseling despair.

  38. “You can’t “keep your principles” and widen the tent.” – GB

    This fundamental belief is why we lose.

    Why?

    Because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Who is going to reach out beyond their bubble if they believe this?

    Large swaths of individuals then become some monolithic group to be treated as unchangeable “others”.

    Sadly, this is a common theme behind ALL of the burn it down crowd.
    .

    Is it a surprise to anyone it has been a common theme in much of “conservative” media?

    Are these media voices serving us well?

    Should we maybe listen a little more critically, with some skepticism and understanding that those in the “conservative” media have different incentives to say things that may not be in OUR interests.

  39. I think the main reason why Obama beat Romney in 2012 is because:

    [1] the Democrat voting coalition is larger than the Republican voting coalition

    [2] in the eyes of potential swing voters, the Democrat party appears to be the better party for peace and prosperity than does the Republican party.

    We conservatives can argue that this is incorrect or a misguided way of viewing “the big picture.” But consider that the last time the economy appeared to be in a state of crisis under a Democrat president was in 1980, under President Jimmy Carter.

    Until the economy suffers a economic crisis that can be clearly blamed on a Democrat presidency, the Republicans will have a hard time shaking off the general perceptions that they are the party of the rich and highly religious.

    Much of this belief among the public is unfair. But telling your average voter that they need to vote Republican to secure a more prosperous economy is probably unpersuasive to anyone under the age of 40 and to many of those over the age of 40 who lost money or a job in the 1990-1991 recession, the 2000-2002 dot com bubble or the 2007-2008 financial crisis.

    Also, the Iraq war didn’t turn out well in the eyes of many people. This is partially the fault of Obama, because he pulled out the troops.

    Still, in the eyes of a non-ideological, lightly informed voter, the Democrat party appears to be the party of peace and prosperity while the Republican party appears to be the party of war and recession.

    The Democrat party appears to be the party of ethnic and religious diversity. The Republican party appears to be almost exclusively white (despite the Bobby Jindals and Nikki Haleys and Marco Rubios and Tim Scotts in the party) and heavily dominated by evangelical Christians.

    The Democrat party blissfully offers voters more entitlements. The Republican party warns that we must reduce entitlement spending in order to avoid economic disaster long term. Trump said that he opposes reforming runaway entitlement spending, preferring to be, in his words, “the king of debt.” Trump’s victories in the GOP primaries demonstrates that fiscal sanity is unpopular even among Republicans.

    Could Romney have run a better campaign in 2012 ? Sure. But even if he had run a perfect campaign, he would have likely lost and the finger pointing against Romney would have occurred anyway.

  40. @Spiral – agree with much of what you say, but the dem coalition is getting larger only because we are ceding that to the dems.

    GB’s statement is the perfect example of the kind of thinking that puts us in that position.

    Conservative principles should be attractive to most everyone. Period.

    Yet, we write off huge groups of people as automatically being beholding to dem ideas.

    We cannot win an argument we haven’t begun to make to these groups.

  42. When there were 16 Rs in the primary field, the conservative votes were spread around. The early primaries were open – allowing crossovers from independents and Democrats. At least in my state, you have to change parties 30 days before an election, so it requires some thought and action.

    Did some voters crossover because they were interested in the Rs slate or to mess with the process. At some point, there was the momentum of Trump and the continued attacks on the remaining conservative candidates by everyone.

    So, until the national party ensures that all states have a closed primary, then they will always have this problem. And there needs to be some education on the process of elections since so many people seemed to be confused about the concept of selecting delegates to the national convention and the concept of superdelegates.

    Of course, someone with access to a computer could easily query the state GOP website and read the state rules, but that requires interest and action.

  43. “DNW,

    I am trying to be less bitter and shrill, but it is a heavy burden. Am I learning? 😉”

    Seem to be. Maybe the pesto helped

  44. “Ken Hoop Says:
    October 13th, 2016 at 6:28 pm

    Clinton’s near-orgasm at assisting the killing of Khaddafi …”

    Yeah, that is something we have all seen on Youtube, but which should be run incessantly on TV by the Trump campaign.

    Will disabuse those who imagine Hillary is at least sane and competent, of that spurious notion.

  46. “Is this less bitter and shrill? I hope so because you are my hero/heroine when it comes to less bitter and shrill. Oh, one thing you should know: I am relentless.”

    “Perseveration” is the clinical term for it.

  47. parker @ 11:57,

    I haven’t forgotten our bet on Trump gaining at least 100 electoral college votes, have you? As I recall, the loser buys the winner a case of their favorite beer. If memory serves, you like the Toppling Goliath brand and I, Bass Ale from across the pond. The loser visiting the other was optional, time and circumstance permitting. Yes?

    I also recall you previously stating that if Iowa’s EC vote is close, you plan to vote for djt while holding your nose. If that circumstance arises, I would recommend doing so on an empty stomach, as I plan to, otherwise an unhappy and unintended gastronomic consequence may result 😉

  48. Bill @ 8:26,

    “I have to accept the consequences. These are *your* consequences, btw. But we all live in the same country. I tried to warn you. Nice that you guys screwed up supporting this guy but I’m the one presented with the catch 22.”

    You’re suffering a lapse in memory. I never supported Trump during the primary season. I was for Walker, then Cruz and Fiorina. So I face the same catch 22, I resolve that by choosing a slim chance over no chance at all.

    Yes, Trump is much of what you say and may be all of it. So instead (if you reside in a swing state) you condone Hillary’s election.

    Labeling the facing of reality as “counseling despair” simply enforces denial.

  49. Big Maq @ 9:02 am,

    “You can’t “keep your principles” and widen the tent.” — GB

    “This fundamental belief is why we lose.

    Why?

    Because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

    Fine. Offer a persuasive rationale for how we retain our principles of self-reliance, risk-taking, acceptance of personal responsibility for our actions and refusal to steal from others (“progressive” taxation)…

    When the people we wish to convince are opposed to all of those things. Not because they think them false but because they know them to be true. Many people are opposed to a merit based system of risk-reward (Capitalism) and defend it by embracing the excuse that others who do better in a merit based system are ‘cheaters’. They do so because they’re unwilling to put the effort in while facing the fact that they might still lose.

    The simple truth is that an increasing proportion of the American public feel entitled and demand that it is their right to be given things. Good luck with proposing to decrease entitlements, while inviting them into our bigger tent.

    And if you can’t demonstrate how to do that, yet still claim it can be done, you’re doing the same thing as those who claim that identifying Islam as the source of Islamic terrorism will only make things worse. I.E. advancing a claim without a supporting rationale.

  50. “Conservative principles should be attractive to most everyone. Period.” Big Maq

    Perhaps in heaven. Many more people will take a bird in the hand over two in the bush. The democrats are offering the public a bird in hand and conservatives are saying, go hunt in the bush and if you’re good enough, you’ll probably find some birds.

    Conservative principles demand accountability and risk taking with no guarantee of success. There are losers in conservative enterprises. Dems say, why take the chance when you can have a guarantee? No losers and everyone the same. As Hillary puts it, “everyone gets to be someone”.

    Your conservative principles demand people accept the world as it is with all its pain and loss. While dems claim to be able to create a fair, just world, where far more people get what they want.

    Today, “Happy, happy, joy, joy” sells much better than, “I have nothing to offer you but blood, toil, tears and sweat”

  51. “Offer a persuasive rationale for how we retain our principles of self-reliance, risk-taking, acceptance of personal responsibility for our actions and refusal to steal from others” – GB

    Look, the reality is asking that question is like asking the question on how to start a business and retire a multi-millionaire – oh, and convince me it is bulletproof to accomplish.

    There are so many possibilities and so many different ideas on and paths to get there, where does one begin, and how much detail is needed to live to the standard that will convince not just GB but all the rest.

    Make no mistake though, we are battling in the marketplace of ideas, and, for one aspect, we ought to be looking at the parallels with business in getting our ideas sold.
    .

    A starting place is to scrap the assumption that everyone belonging to any particular group is immune to our messaging. Neo changed her mind, an individual in a sea of leftism. Are there not any lessons to learn in that?

    A second thing is to get rid of the idea that our message has to be about “blood, toil, tears and sweat”. Was Reagan’s “Morning in America” such a message?

    However, it is a sure thing that, if our message is (and it has been) that the world is rigged and that we are all victims of one sort or another, we are sending out the exact opposite idea to what we say we are standing for.

    And, as we are saying these things, it implicitly buys into the leftist zero sum framing. Then all it becomes is an auction of who can give out more goodies to “compensate” for your group’s victimhood, leaving everyone fighting for position on the victimhood hierarchy for a better payoff.

    We ought to be able to target market, tailoring our messaging to make our principles relevant to those folks outside our “tent”, but are persuadable.

    And this is just one aspect. There is much more.
    .

    “Dems say, why take the chance when you can have a guarantee? No losers and everyone the same.”

    So, let’s talk about one example. Take my above statements, and ask yourself how much have you heard from the GOP about charter schools and/or vouchers?

    Yes, we’ve heard a bit, but how many have been going into the minority communities to talk about this and made a major issue of this?

    Dem policies are not working for those folks – they are guaranteeing a poor education, everyone is a loser. How “fair” is that in their minds? It is not theoretical for these people, but very real.

    As solution, this hits home at the value of the marketplace vs government for solving problems.

    More importantly, the GOP are missing the boat by not making something like this a key selling point to ***open the door*** to more discussion on other things in the minority communities.
    .

    “We”, you and I, cannot do all this ourselves. So, the bigger question may be what can we do as individuals, not alone, but organized?

    We have to both influence the larger political organization(s) to meet our expectations, and be agents of change within our own communities.

    That’s the question I’d like to discuss here, and one I think can be productive.

    Frankly, doing this well would require “blood, toil, tears and sweat” and time. Is the crowd here up for it, IDK.

  52. Had one other thought this a.m. about the parallel with how business approaches marketing and our selling of ideas.

    How many ads do we see of one business trashing another’s product? Heck, we hardly see any head to head comparisons.

    Why is that?

    Because, for the most part, they don’t work well, and they don’t necessarily bring the customer back to your vs yet another competitor’s product.

    Notice that ads are largely selling the positive features / aspects / associations of their offering.

    “Making America Great Again” has the makings of a positive vision, but the campaign doesn’t match that idea with much positive reinforcement and is getting overwhelmed by the negative coming form the campaign / trump himself.

  53. ““Making America Great Again” has the makings of a positive vision, but the campaign doesn’t match that idea with much positive reinforcement and is getting overwhelmed by the negative coming form the campaign / trump himself.” [Big Maq]

    I think this is absolutely on point. The Trump campaign is wasting too much time playing defense to Clinton campaign attacks. I think that if they would have focused more on this message, this election would already be decided (and in Trump’s favor) regardless of what “shiny objects” are thrown around in the arena.

  54. regardless of what “shiny objects” are thrown around in the arena.

    By shiny things are you referring to items such as the fact that he is a sexual predator?

    I’m finding this hard to believe.

  55. @Bill – agree, in the sense that were trump not such a flawed character, this wouldn’t be a topic for discussion.

    OTOH, it is “bait” like all the rest the dems have been stringing out, and trump just cannot help himself in going on the offensive the only way he knows how – get down and dirty with return fire.

    It is his continued focus on these things that occupies the news, drowning out anything “bad” that could be discussed wrt clinton and obama.

    This is just another aspect of the flawed character that is trump.

    The dems have been extremely smart at this political jujitsu, using trump’s own psychology, and his Pavlovian behaviorisms, against him.

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