Congress could save the US from the nightmare of this election
I have an idea, although no one will take me seriously and I don’t delude myself that it’s going to happen.
Each party hates its own nominee and feels him/her to be an albatross around its neck. So whoever wins the election, Congress should impeach and convict that person of something or other. Take your pick; I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find an offense, since “high crimes and misdemeanors” is whatever Congress takes it to mean.
Then either Kaine or Pence, depending on whether Hillary or Trump has won, would become president. I think the majority of Americans on both sides would breathe a little sigh of relief.
Yeah, I know; it sets a bad precedent, and would probably cause some sort of insurrection among the minority of Americans who wouldn’t be pleased by the move, the die-hard Trump or Clinton supporters. But as far as I can tell it would be completely constitutional.
Am I being facetious? A bit. But I have a deep desire to make sure neither Clinton nor Trump ever becomes president, and occurs to me that Congress actually has that power.
Bad, bad idea.
No one votes for the VP with the idea that the VP will be President on essentially day one.
Hillary is finished. We will finally be rid of those criminals and their cronies.
Unfortunately for your idea, there is Federal case law, Supreme Court precedent, saying that executive branch folks cannot be impeached for acts committed before their entry into office. It’s an 1872 case, if I recall correctly, and I don’t have the citation but it’s been posted on the Internet several times. So, Congress actually does not have that power.
I Like Ike.
Hillary finished?
I don’t know, Cornhead. I just can’t see it happening. Trump may actually come up with a plurality of people that vote for him but it won’t be enough, no matter what. If facts mattered, it would be different. It’s just us vs them. We won’t know until it’s over.
That’s the part of this that is most like war.
Mrs. Clinton, who has held Federal office as Secretary of State, could in fact be impeached by Congress on grounds of wrongdoing committed by her while holding that office, I believe. That is to say, tomorrow, if the Congress were to see fit to begin tomorrow. So, yes, in that instance I believe the requisite power is available — and note that in punishment whereof, disbarment from holding any Federal office after impeachment and conviction is available as well.
Trump, on the other hand, is a different case, as he has never held (nor abused) any Federal office to date. So.
Cornhead:
As I said, I’m being somewhat facetious.
And I agree it’s a bad idea, but not for the reason you state.
This year is different from other years, however. A great many people hate both candidates, and would much prefer the VPs.
Also, Congress would not be doing this day one of a presidency, so I don’t know what you’re talking about in that respect. It would take a while (and yes, I know it won’t be happening; it’s just a fantasy of mine).
But categorical and extreme statements like “Hillary is finished” are based on nothing except your wishful thinking at this point. This will help Trump somewhat, but there’s no indication right now in the latest polls that it would help him enough to win.
If by some miracle neither of the so ‘n sos gets to 270 because Utah and NM go 3rd party, along with the split vote in Maine, it is possible that they could be denied the office. Not likely at this point, but certainly possible. That is what I hoped for, and not because I necessarily like Johnson & Weld, but I absolutely despise Clinton and Trump.
https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-election/gary-johnson-elected-president-home-state-new-mexico/
The large majority of Trump’s themes are correct, IMO.
Especially his anti-globalism and pro-Americanism. If you want rule by EU-type bureaucrats, a dissolution of your nation, and a loss of citizenship in a flood of migrants, go for Hillary. And move to Germany or Sweden if Trump wins.
The latest polls should be ignored, Neo. Only our own individual minds and votes, and Democratic vote fraud, matter.
I share the frustration Neo and so many commenters are expressing: both candidates are horrible. And not just to me, as demonstrated by the fact that the erstwhile front-runner cannot break 50% in the polls, even the polls that oversample Democrats.
The impeachment gambit had occurred to me a month or so ago, but I’m really not happy with Tim Kaine. He’s an unreconstructed Marxist who would be as bad for this country as Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.
There are really no good options out there. I will vote for the least bad of the two major party candidates, but admit he is only least bad because he is not as corrupt as Hillary. I just cannot tolerate the thought she would sit in the oval office and continue to sell American secrets and resources to the high bidder.
Looking to Congress to save us is folly born of desperation. They are just another symptom of the problem, which is an electorate that in the aggregate… is incapable of making wise choices.
We all know what Kaine would do; continue the narrative and our March to the Collective. Pence appears to be a good man, but one who I suspect is too comfortable with the status quo. He will not insist upon the reforms needed, so he’ll simply delay our March to the Collective.
F:
You know, I kept hearing Trump isn’t as corrupt as Hillary.
From what I know of him, he is every bit as corrupt as Hillary and perhaps even more so. Read about the lawsuits against him (Trump U., for example). He has been serially unfaithful. Read his history as a con man in Scotland; the whole country now hates his guts, after the majority of them welcomed him initially because of what he promised them he could do for them (promises he did not fulfill). Look at what he said about George Bush, and how he praised Hillary and donated to her when he thought it could get him something. He has always used his money to buy favors, and brags about it. Look at his serial lies, even about things he needn’t have lied about (“I lost hundreds of friends on 9/11”). Look at what he says about freedom of speech. Look at the people he surrounds himself with. Look at how he has incited violence at his rallies. Look at the boldness and nastiness of the lies he told about Cruz, and about Carson (before Carson prostituted himself by supporting him).
Now, you may say he can’t be corrupt because corruption is a word limited to governmental figures. But the word is not that limited, and Trump fits it quite well. I maintain that the only reason he hasn’t been corrupt in the sense of abusing his governmental power is that he has never had any official governmental position. I maintain that he would not hesitate for a moment to do whatever it took to get what he wanted, and to abuse his power. The only thing he might not do is do it for money, since (at least as far as we know) he doesn’t need the money.
I’m really not sure why people harp on this “Hillary is corrupt” business, as though it is a difference that makes a difference. I don’t see that it does.
Neo, you think there is some moral equivalency between Clinton and Trump? Open your eyes.
I believe everything you said in that last comment is either incorrect or unfairly hyperbolic.
Go vote for Hillary. Sitting out the election or voting for a third party is a cop-out. Have some courage.
Too much negativity and insincerity here lately.
Bye.
Somebody nominated these clowns, and they need to be punished for it.
F said: “…….but I’m really not happy with Tim Kaine. He’s an unreconstructed Marxist who would be as bad for this country as Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.”
True that. Vote for the one who has a VP that would be less damaging should the unthinkable happen and the Veep become President.
Neo, I do not understand why you do not grasp that doing big business successfully is very contingent on political favoritism. One has to hedge one’s bets by giving to both parties, though Wall St has overlooked that in recent years.
I do not care if the Scots hate Trump. Totally irrelevant.
Being sued in business is part of the cost of being in business.
As a doc, I was sued multiple times for malpractice, with never a settlement or adverse judgment. It just goes with the territory and the insurance premiums are rather substantial. There are lots and lots of greedy, grubby plaintiff lawyers out there. Trial lawyers are a revolting species. They contribute almost exclusively to the Dem Party, as you well know.
So Trump gets sued in business deals. So what? Some deals don’t work, and lots of people then get pissed. Happens everywhere, all the time, right here in the USA. Trial first, please, then verdict.
You seem reluctant to distinguish scale in corruption, as if none of the Clinton stuff rises up high enough for you. She was SOS and he was POTUS, for heaven’s sake. And hundreds of millions of $ later, bribes disguised as charitable, tax-deductible contributions, you’re not going to vote against her? For heaven’s sake, don’t argue there is insufficient evidence against Hillary.
Frog:
Trump’s record is quite different than many other big business people. He is not typical. Sure, people get sued. But Trump University is not typical of a typical businessman. Nor is his own litigious personality. There are plenty of real estate developers who have never done anything like what he did in Scotland in terms of conning. Here’s some background on Trump (it’s not my source for the material; my source was a biography I read; but that article is somewhat of an easy-to-read summary). I fail to see that it indicates a better, less corrupt, more trustworthy person than Hillary. Just a person who didn’t play in the political realm, as she has. No wonder he and the Clintons were all such good friends prior to this election.
Plus, it’s not that every successful businessman SOB who exists is a person I would want to be president, or would vote for to be president. Saying he’s like some of them, and they’re like him, is no recommendation.
Of course, some people in his business are relatively decent human beings, relatively honest, relatively trustworthy. I’m not naive, though; I understand it’s a dog eat dog world. But Trump is far doggier than most and he’s eaten a lot more of his share of dogs (and people) than most.
As I’ve said about a thousand times, considering that he’s never held office his scale of corruption is YUGE. He has only lacked as many opportunities as she, that’s all.
And I’m certainly not defending Hillary.
It might be instructive to look at some past Presidential elections, in the 19th century. In 1824, with no one getting a majority of electoral votes, the U.S. Congress (under the 12th Amendment) selected John Quincy Adams as President. Andrew Jackson, who actually had more electoral and popular votes (but not a majority) was later successfully elected in 1828.
In 1876, there was again no majority of electoral votes, with 20 electoral votes out of the 185 needed to win in dispute. This time, the Congress created an Electoral Commission to resolve the matter, with its 15 members voting 8-7 to award the disputed votes to the next President, Rutherford B. Hayes, the Republican candidate.
As things go, either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will be elected as the next President. The former is openly corrupt, and will be mired in scandal, and will be viewed (rightfully so) as illegitimate by her opponents, with the significant possibility of ongoing investigations and other revelations that could completely derail her Presidency, or lead to a Constitutional crisis, or possibly impeachment.
A vote for Trump is the sensible thing to do, as the least-damaging option for the country, and the one most likely to lead to increased stability and normalcy in the future.
‘He has only lacked as many opportunities as she, that’s all.’
That’s a good point. In each case their corruption is limited only by their opportunities and manifested in different ways. His soul is as corrupt as hers.’ The briber vs. the bribee.
Under no circumstances will I vote for either. In fact I believe it is unethical to vote for Trump or Hillary.
Given that most people commit 3 federal felonies a day, this isn’t a far fetched notion.
Of course, that brings up a side issue of there are too damn many federal crimes.
https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229
Then we get back to a bigger problem: if impeached and removed from office, who is actually going to remove them from office?