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Home » Another rant from a liberal, plus some words of hope

Another rant from a liberal, plus some words of hope

The New Neo Posted on by

Get ready for an awful lot of the f-word in the following video, which is by a guy who detests Trump and would have preferred Sanders. But this rant is actually very good. I think he may just be learning what most of the left—of which he is a part—is all about. I’ve been seeing a fair amount of this sort of thing from unexpected sources ever since Tuesday, as the Trump win (and the larger GOP win to go with it) sinks in:

I’ve noticed a strange phenomenon among some of my liberal friends, as well. Although some are still reeling and understandably frightened of the loose cannon Trump and some of his more extreme campaign promises/threats, others have made a quick adjustment. Surprisingly quick.

I’ve already related the conversation I had with a Hillary-supporting Democratic friend of mine on Election Day evening, before any but the very first dribble of returns had come in, the conversation in which she had added—as an aside to her fervent wish that Trump would not become president—a simultaneous and contradictory feeling: “But I’m almost hoping he does win, because I’m very curious what it would be like. It would be exciting.”

That surprised me at the time, and I took it to be a unique and idiosyncratic reaction of this particular friend. But subsequent conversations since the election with a few of my other liberal friends—the ones who’ve made a rather quick adjustment—have convinced me that this sentiment of hers was more widespread than I’d supposed. Now that the election is over and we have President-elect Trump, these people have voiced discontent with Hillary and with Washington. They’re all been somewhat encouraged by what’s gone on since Tuesday. And one even said to me that maybe this would be a wake-up call to both parties to not continue to ignore a bunch of people who’ve been ignored and hurting for years.

I know that this is the traditional honeymoon period for a president-elect. But whatever honeymoon aspects this has—and it most definitely has some—are further enhanced by the fact that this was a honeymoon that was unexpected and unplanned by most people. It’s as though we expected to spend some time in the hospital having a colonoscopy, and after doing all the nasty prep and getting to the point of lying in the hospital room with the IV about to be inserted, instead a brass band came into the room and the drum majorette announces that we need to get up, because instead we’ve won a free trip to a luxury resort in Hawaii.

Now, that resort might be a bit tawdry. It may not be the exactly perfect hotel we would have chosen it we’d had our druthers. But hey, it’s a whole lot better than that colonoscopy.

It may be a silly dream, and it may soon be time to wake up. But the relief and tentatively burgeoning hope so many people are willing and eager to experience underscores what stress both sides have been under, perhaps without fully realizing it, not just for the Obama years but for the Bush years as well. Maybe, just maybe, this improbable, unusual, weirdly-coiffed and spray-tanned reality show president is here to tell us to lay down that weary load, if only for a moment, and enjoy a feeling of national wonderment that we’ve arrived at such an odd place, and to hope that America’s good luck might just be holding out after all when most of us least expected it.

[NOTE: I don’t know exactly where the following item goes, so I may as well put it here. I was watching Fox News last night, and I saw a clip of a recent interview with Trump (I think it came from a forthcoming “60 Minutes,” but I’m not sure). Trump was being asked about the phone call he got from Hillary when she conceded, and he said something that seemed astute, telling, respectful, and even perhaps (dare I say it?) empathetic. He said the call was very hard for Hillary to make—“harder for her than it would have been for me, and it would have been very hard for me,” and then went on to say a few nice things about her.

The guy can turn on a dime, from Hillary-love to Hillary-hate to Hillary-understanding. But of course, we already knew that. But right now I’ll take it, because showing a little graciousness to the other side now that he’s finally won can only help us all in the end.]

Comments

Another rant from a liberal, plus some words of hope — 77 Comments

  1. I think most people are just glad the election is over.

    Also, most Democrats voted for Hillary to keep Trump out. The way I voted for Trump to keep Hillary out. They aren’t invested in the person as much as usual.

  2. That guy made some good points. I recall one rally I attended where Bill went on at length about how Hillary was such a change maker. I thought it was a very, very weak argument.

  3. My daughter, and reportedly my cancer survivor granddaughter, are suffering great angst. First, it was because he would gut Obamacare, and the granddaughter would be thrown to the wolves. Well no, not according to the latest revelations. So, there is a pivot to the next calamity. This one is that he is a misogynist monster, and presumably women throughout the land will be prey.

    My advice, which so far they have rejected, is to just wait and see. That is what I am doing. I suspect, and hope, that the Trump we saw on the stage was an actor from his reality series–that oddly enough was quite popular. Since individuals from Ben Carson to Rudy Giuliani have come to his side, I trust that there is another character–hopefully an authentic one–that will be our President. I have not forgotten his legitimate baggage. But, past Presidents with a much larger load have been deemed effective and successful. Right Slick?

    Unfortunately, the Left will not wait and judge fairly. It is clear that they intend to make it very difficult for him to govern.

  4. Dear (and I do mean Dear) Neo,
    “But, hey, it’s a whole lot better than a colonoscopy.” I think my derrié¨re is somewhere on the floor. I laughed it off reading your unplanned honeymoon analogy. I guess it was the brass band and the drum majorette marching into the room that really did it. Superb!

  5. Being saved from an expected colonoscopy. 🙂

    Nice analysis of the psychological transitions being made.

    Though I was totally anti-Hillary and voted for Trump, I’m now fervently praying that he turns out to be a reasonably competent President.

    The honeymoon is over as far as my local paper is concerned. They had three front page stories designed to cast doubt on Trump’s agenda. One of them proclaimed that Trump could not do any more about infrastructure repair and renewal than Obama had. (Never mind the fact that Obama never really intended to spend the Porkulus $800 billion on infrastructure.) I have a feeling that Bush Derangement Syndrome was mild as compared to the Trump Derangement Syndrome that is coming. It’s difficult enough to be an effective President, but when the MSM is clearly out to get you, it becomes just that much more difficult.

    Hoping for the best, but not getting too excited about what can or will be accomplished.

  6. The British actor playing a fictional character rants, true, yet I don’t believe the rant is especially good, or at least not simply good.

    Why is this?

    Let’s quote him [5:52 – 6:02] :

    [. . .] the only thing that works is fucking bothering, doing something and what we have to do is engage in the debate; talk to people who think differently to you and persuade them of your argument; it’s so easy and the left have lost the art. Stop thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is evil or racist or sexist or stupid and talk to them! Persuade them otherwise, because if you don’t I’ll tell you what you get: You get President Trump.”

    Notice the problem?

    His view, his proposal, his solution, does not mention (hence seems not to include) the possibility that the persuasion he supposes can be effected upon his opponents can be reciprocal upon himself or his audience from his opponents.

    Thinking, the genuine hard work of thinking — beyond finding a happy-talk rhetoric to “persuade” — is not required. Setting aside his own facile political assumptions and talking points isn’t even broached as a possibility. He’s far too confident — at least it seems so to me — that there will be no need to do.

    For how could it be, when the audience he addresses (to include himself) takes the subject of their efforts to persuade the great unwashed as a matter of holy writ? There is no search for truth in his aims. He merely wishes to convey what he and his friends have received as true, without any question necessary.

    So, not good, if the kernel of his idea was to actually learn something. But that doesn’t seem to be the idea at all: he still means to “win” on the same grounds he’s already happy to embrace.

    That’s not dialogue. That’s preaching gospel from the lectern, if yet more gently, less insultingly, next time.

    This other business, thinking, deliberating at length regarding political matters is never easy, nor ever guaranteed to end in indisputable knowledge. Beatdowns, on the other hand, are another thing altogether.

  7. One thing I think we can look forward to : we may get an actual debate about some subjects that the political class doesn’t like to talk about. They like to pretend they’re talking about things, but in practice that usually means that each side just trots out its usual narrative without actually saying very much or doing very much. Everybody wants to stay in office, therefore everybody says what they think their base wants to hear.

    Trump may say – hell, he has said – some very stupid things, but at least he’s not shy about saying them. Which may (we can hope) prompt his critics to go beyond the sound bites and offer some honest alternatives, which can then be discussed as opposed to being ranted about.

  9. Is this the afterglow that obama enjoyed in 2008?

    Even I hoped he’d at the least heal the racial divide, despite my major, major disagreement with him on policy.

  10. I don’t believe there will be any honeymoon for President Trump. I think the media were so outraged over the election results they will be after him like a starving wolf after a rabbit.

  11. Oldflyer Says:
    November 12th, 2016 at 11:51 am
    I have not forgotten his legitimate baggage. But, past Presidents with a much larger load have been deemed effective and successful. Right Slick?

    Unfortunately, the Left will not wait and judge fairly. It is clear that they intend to make it very difficult for him to govern.
    * * *
    In the end, it was the reminder that so many of our presidents (good and bad) have been elected with bad baggage; we just didn’t know about some of them at the time (and some people refuse to face the facts when they become known).
    As you say, the purpose of the Left is to recite pacific and harmonious maxims when they lose, and break them when they win.
    This time they are breaking the maxims even while reciting them.
    (lots of cites to deranged Hillary supporters beating up Trump voters, even just on suspicion).
    Which makes this cartoon rather apropos Oldflyer’s comment:
    http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2016/11/quotation-of-day.html

  13. There’s a funny/odd aspect to Trump’s empathy:

    Some of his more rabid followers are online calling for retaliation against perceived traitors to The Cause, but they are completely undercut by Trump’s call for unity.

    It is the easiest thing in the world to end their rants by asking them why they’re spitting in Trump’s face with their disrespect.

    Now, on the one hand I’m obviously trolling them with that line, and I do it because it’s fun. But on the other hand, it demonstrates a more serious problem: their position is not external to Trump, not based on principle. It is based on Der Fuhrer’s position at the moment.
    It’s a basis that can easily be turned against them, if Heaven forbid, Trump turns them out into the cold.
    It’s proof that they are in a cult of personality. That worries me.

    As far as the British guy with his rant goes: addicts never change until they hit bottom.

  14. Neo:
    “the relief and tentatively burgeoning hope so many people are willing and eager to experience”

    Oldflyer:
    “My advice, which so far they have rejected, is to just wait and see.”

    JJ:
    “Hoping for the best”

    Conservatives are the last line for American society. America can’t afford for conservatives to wait and see and hope. They need to organize as competitive activists now, if not decades ago.

    President-elect Trump has his chance to do right by We The People, regardless.

    But if he doesn’t do right in any of a number of ways for him to do wrong, if American politics fail again, there’s little cushion left to fall back on within the normal scope of American politics. Electing Trump approaches a nuclear option.

    America needs for conservatives to deafen the siren song of their aversion to activism. It’s critically essential for conservatives to organize independently of the GOP to build a constructive paradigm and with a sufficient degree of activism to hold the GOP, Congress, and the Trump administration accountable to that standard. Not oppose Trump dogmatically or reflexively, but to be vigilant and hold the government accountable.

    However, if conservatives once again rationalize their aversion to activism by waiting and seeing and hoping Trump does right, then their agency to hold the GOP, Congress, and the Trump administration accountable to their duty will have slipped away long before the need for it manifests immediate and urgent.

  15. SDFERR cuts through the noise to the core of the matter. This individual, in the vieo, does not even consider that his positions might be in error or against the best interests of the citizens of the United States – he is concerned that the message didn’t get across.

    I’m here to tell him that the message is quite clearly WRONG. True believers fail to reconsider their premises and no matter the marketing gimmick, it is not likely to sell.

  16. “Some of his more rabid followers are online calling for retaliation against perceived traitors to The Cause, but they are completely undercut by Trump’s call for unity.” – Matt SE

    This is because they think trump has a mandate to do what THEY think he should do.

    A more realistic view of what happened is explained by Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs Guy):
    “I think a majority of people who voted in this election did so in spite of their many misgivings about the character of both candidates. That’s why it’s very dangerous to argue that Clinton supporters condone lying under oath and obstructing justice. Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women.

    These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation — it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. “
    https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1330853343591472:0

  17. sdferr:
    Very true. The part of his rant that caught my ear was “persuade them of your argument; it’s so easy” goes right back to their position that they just haven’t quite framed their message properly. That their position indeed is the only possible and correct one, if they could just get the rest of us to listen to them. It’s all so very logical, you see.

    But it isn’t easy. When you frame the argument solely in terms of false choices (how can you be against this bill – do you hate crippled children?) it can only lead to false results. A good case in point is ObamaCare: we read all over the place on how many more people are insured, now that the ACA was enacted – how can anyone be against that? Which overlooks that medical insurance is not the same as medical care; and that the insurance itself has such sky-high deductibles that many people can’t actually use it. Another one here in Texas is that some of the Child Protection Service funding has been reduced and CPS had to revise their eligibility criteria. What is not discussed, however, is whether the eligibility criteria had evolved beyond the scope of the original programs and/or were subject to abuse. All we know from reading the newspaper is that the Texas Legislature hates children.

    Arguing either of those two (and there are so many others) is not going to be so easy as just talking to me; not unless they’ve got something besides false choices. No, they will have to learn the causes and main influences behind their positions, they’ll have to learn what the goals of the policies were, and how well those policies are being achieved. That takes a lot of work; a lot of research – probably as much work and research as I have to undertake to understand my position(s) on them.

    No sir, it is not easy. Anything is demonstrable when considered in sufficient isolation. Yet in isolation is how so many arguments are presented, as if there are no other causes or effects to consider.

  18. Me on September 17. 2016

    “Agree 100% with John Hinderaker. Trump will be strong in the Midwest and might even win MN. PA, IA, MI, PA and OH are locks. The deleted emails will be leaked and they will be devasting. Even the NYT will abandon Hillary. The big issue in November will be the coming indictment of Hillary.”

  19. Hear hear, Steve S. The false dichotomy is a pet peeve of mine. And I’m not talking about a miniature Schnauzer kind of pet, more like a St. Bernard/mastiff cross. With lots of drooling.

  21. sdferr; Steve S, guaman:

    But you’re asking way too much of the Brit at this point

    He believes in his own ideas; of course he does, much like most people. Therefore he believes that, in the marketplace ideas, engaged in argument with those of the opposite persuasion, of course he and his side will win the argument. All that’s necessary is to engage the other side fairly and with respect

    Since this hasn’t happened to him yet (or perhaps he’s tried it, and the conservatives he’s argued with haven’t been very bright), he thinks of course he’ll win. There’s a possibility that he might find out otherwise, to his suprise. The discussion and persuasion might be even go the other way, perhaps. But that’s for later, not now.

    First he is engaging his own side and telling them they need to open up their minds to engagement on substantive issues. That’s why his rant is good.

  22. Eric, do you suggest conservatives turn out in the streets to counter protest? I don’t think that would add much to the mix at this time. What the heck can we do right this moment except watch and wait?

    The nearest thing to a conservative activism that I can see having much effect is supporting Heritage (who provided Trump with his list of conservative judges for SCOTUS.), Judicial Watch (Who has been in the forefront of the Hillary e-mail scandal forcing the FBI to take a look.), and Project Veritas (Undercover videos that show exactly how the Democrats fomented violence at Trump rallies and how they stuff the ballot boxes.) They are the ones who are in the field doing the necessary work to promote conservative policies and expose the corruption of the progressives. They cannot do their work without financial support. That is where my dollars and advice go. Heritage sends out questionnaires quarterly to test the waters among conservatives. Until you can suggest some specific activities that individuals can engage in that would have a major impact like those organizations do, I think your call for activism is just a slogan.

  23. “But I’m almost hoping he does win, because I’m very curious what it would be like. It would be exciting.”

    The same way flying through the Chugach range in Alaska, in foul weather, in a Cessna 172 that can’t gain enough to fly over the mountains but you have to follow the rivers and get a close look at all the bears you’ll have to deal with if you set down, and your pilot is unsure about the fuel situation so he flicks on his cigarette lighter so he can see the gauge in the fading light then gives you the thumbs up, is exciting.

    But I can’t in good faith say anything would be exciting about a Hillary Clinton presidency. I don’t think she has an idea or policy proposal that’s less than fifty years old. It would be very boring, predictable, and depressing.

  24. Heh, it’s funny that we’re asking too much at this point when a few Greeks worked through the whole problem circa 400 B.C. Give the Brit just a few more centuries and maybe he’ll catch on. Meantime, we won’t hold our breath.

  25. In case you’re wondering what Mr. Pie’s bit about gymnastics was, he’s talking about a recent incident where prominent British gymnast Louis Smith was hauled over the coals and forced to make a public apology (very Maoist) for disrespecting Islam by being caught on tape joshing around while drunk with his mates and yelling “Allahu Akbar!”. Didn’t quite get around to the show trial and the Gulag, but we’re nearly there.

  26. So the next four years hold the prospect of one or two or three Scalias being added to the Court.

    It holds the prospect of stopping the asphyxiation of America by invaders hostile to Americans.

    The military will be rebuilt, perhaps, and trade deals renegotiated fairly.

    The soviet media have been humiliated and the Democrat party diminished extraordinarily — actually, in about as weak a position as a party can be in.

    How, exactly, did this come about?

    Let us hope that the fortuitous good fortune continues and that the happenstance of everything falling to the non-left is not interrupted by all bad things Trump.

    If the random good luck sustains, the “vital” mission of defending George Bush can be vigorously prosecuted, as the political situation of the non-left vitally requires.

  27. Cornhead @ 5:02 PM:

    Wow, you were really prescient!

    You predicted all along Trump was going to win!

    I realize you believe Carly would have been so much better, but at least you did not propagate a message which would have undermined one or two or three Scalias being added to the Supreme Court. Right?

    Or do you think Trump will not do that?

  28. Eric @ 4:17 PM:

    “Conservatives are the last line for American society. America can’t afford for conservatives to wait and see and hope. They need to organize as competitive activists now, if not decades ago.”

    I am curious whether you consider the numerous pro-Trump alt media were part of the “activist” scenario you have repeated endlessly? And repeat now?

    There are no more “conservatives.” I say that as a life-long Conservative.

    There is the non-left, and the left.

    We now have America. I am euphoric to even state “we now have America.”

    Maybe it won’t work out, but we have a chance.

    Here is the activism God has bestowed upon us: Trump will drain the swamp. And from there we can rid ourselves of the political garbage choking America.

    I am happy. It is too bad many folks on the non-left are not happy. But maybe they will be happy.

  30. Thanks neo.

    …its nice to see the yelling is quieting down around here LOL.

    That adds a final grace note to what I already have down as the best week of the year (in some ways, in some things), even better.

  31. We live in “interesting” times.

    The following quote is from The Hill (link below):

    “The Sanders people should be mad at themselves,” said one well-connected Democratic strategist. “If they had come out to vote, Donald Trump wouldn’t be president. If they were trying to prove a point, all they’ve done is further damage everything they claim to be fighting for.

    Doesn’t this sound just like what many people were saying about #NeverTrump when everyone knew that Hillary would win the election? The tables have turned in a blink; I swear we’ve gone down the rabbit hole.

    Also, Neo, sdferr and Matt_SE:

    With regard to your discussion about the rant (and the protests) Scott Adams has in interesting essay about how cognitive dissonance is at play (his opinion) in the current Progressive protests. Link below.

    The Hill

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/305617-seething-liberals-vow-revolution-in-democratic-party

    Scott Adams:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153080448451/the-cognitive-dissonance-cluster-bomb

  32. “How, exactly, did this come about?” [Tonawanda @ 9:20]”

    Perhaps, as Otto von Bismark noted, “There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America.”

  33. >”Notice the problem?

    His view, his proposal, his solution, does not mention (hence seems not to include) the possibility that the persuasion he supposes can be effected upon his opponents can be reciprocal upon himself or his audience from his opponents. [sdferr @ 1:27]

    I agree. However, carry it to the next level. Progressive positions are usually not based upon fact, but on emotive virtue-signaling, i.e., not really an arguable position–one simply believes. So not only does he not recognize that discussion/ argument goes both ways, but the left is more likely to lose the argument when presented with a factual counterargument. So, in a sense, he’s advocating his position’s own demise.

    This just goes to show that either way, not discussing and arguing the leftist position, or discussing and arguing the leftist position, the result is the same. For the left, it’s a one way dead-end street.

  34. Tonawanda:

    It happened that Trump was elected. Now what will he do?

    Repeal and replace Obamacare? Immigration? Massive infrastructure/stimulus spending? The Wall? Retaliate against the non-Trump republicans? Get along and go along with the democrats?

    Lots of questions for those skeptical of Trumpism. Maybe questions for those “reluctant” Trump voters too?

    But we won’t have Hillary to kick around any more, so that’s good.

  35. Tonawanda:

    Four things I said quite consistently about the prospect of a Donald Trump victory—

    The first was that it was definitely possible.

    The second was that I was not a NeverTrumper.

    The third was that if Trump won I would be very happy that Hillary had not been elected.

    And the fourth was that if Trump won I would sincerely hope that he would turn out to be a much better man and much better president than I thought he’d be.

    So there’s no irony that I can see. Unless you’re not talking about this blog but about something else entirely.

  36. Nothing can be done or said about/to the trumpians in their brief moment of triumph. When the savior proves to be something else beyond their limited imaginations they will dissappear or riot. Oh well, deja vu for how many times?

  37. I too agree with sdferr @1:27.

    I would ask Eric what evidence there is that a heretofore non-responsive GOP and Congress, disinclined toward conservative principles… will now prove responsive toward conservative activism? As, that approach has already been tried with the Tea Party.

    It’s fair to ask, why did the Tea Party’s activism fail? Why does leftist activism succeed? I believe the same answer applies to both questions.

    The MSM. To succeed, activism needs promotion from disparate and credible sources and wide spread dissemination. The MSM incessantly promotes (repeat the big lie often enough) and widely disseminates the Left’s narrative under the cover of ‘journalistic nuetrality’. It burys, obfuscates and negatively spins the truth. It implies and outright declares any contrary narrative to be both untrue and having the basest of motivations. So how shall that tsunami of untruthful propaganda be overcome?

    It sure won’t be overcome by trying to compromise with the left, by trying to reason with liberals whose world view rests upon denial of basic aspects of human nature and denial of key aspects of the very external reality within which they exist.

    I agree with OM that what Trump does or does not do will tell the tale as to his sincerity.

  38. Geoffrey:

    One bright spot about the results of the election; despite the MSM Hillary did not win.

    I’ve read that Trump was among those surprised by the outcome of the election. Could it be that the MSM is loosing it’s death grip on the citizens of the country? That would be a good thing. Now if the IRS stops targeting conservative organizations, and doesn’t just shift to targeting conservatives and non-Trumpkins. is a slight paranoia setting in? 🙂

  39. Tonawanda:

    “… at least you did not propagate a message which would have undermined one or two or three Scalias being added to the Supreme Court. Right?

    Or do you think Trump will not do that?”

    Not sure Trump’s appointments will be as good as Scalia. Pretty sure they will be way better than Hillary’s would have been, a big reason I was a never a NeverTrumper.

  41. That is comedian Tom Walker playing his parody journalist ‘Jonathan Pie’. What Walker’s real political views are is anybody’s guess but most likely he’s some kind of half decent
    lefty. That is open to discussion!

  42. Another one here in Texas is that some of the Child Protection Service funding has been reduced and CPS had to revise their eligibility criteria.

    Since CPS in Texas has been giving children to child molestors… but oh, I guess people didn’t know about that one. Dots connecting data points.

  43. As for Leftists zombies on vid trying to make a point, they would be more interesting if they had made it against their Dear Leader, years ago before power politics gave them a thumping in the teeth.

  44. I am happy. It is too bad many folks on the non-left are not happy. But maybe they will be happy.

    Tonawanda Says:
    November 12th, 2016 at 9:47 pm
    Is there anyone in this thread who sees just a little, itty-bitty, tiny bit of irony?

    *Raises Hand*

    But the irony I see is that Tonawanda, back when I told the public certain things about the Left and back when he first Awakened to the power and threat of the Leftist alliance, was so depressive and pessimistic it was like his world was ending. Then plus bitter anger and blaming, projecting, displacing other people online about it. http://neoneocon.com/2015/10/16/bush-derangement-syndrome-left-right-and-trumpian/#comment-930202

    Orson wrote a good overall comment, but for Tona’s comments search above the date stamp.

    Reading a spoof article about someone you’ve never heard of is one thing. It’s much harder to tell about that.

    But George W. Bush is a known quantity, and a spoof about him (unless very very gentle) shouldn’t take anyone in. The one that Tonawanda cited was an obvious spoof–not the way Bush talks or thinks. But it’s the way people who suffer from BDS believe Bush talks or thinks. So they are primed to miss the spoof aspects. And that should tell them that they are all too ready to believe the worst about Bush, even something preposterous.

    -Neo replying on the subject where Tona fell for some anti Bush II propaganda.

    Now he’s (Tona) happy and optimistic because Hero King got elected to the US Throne. That’s what I find ironic.

    Meanwhile, Americans are still getting sand bagged on US streets, and I don’t see Tona or Trum’s household troops doing anything to stop that. At least the European solidarity parties have local, not global, solutions to that one issue of moral order.

    “How, exactly, did this come about?”

    All the good things that haven’t happened yet, which is used to divert attention from all the bad things still happening in the US and world at large. If that isn’t rose colored glasses, it’s hard to get one better.

    Also, If the random good luck sustains, the “vital” mission of defending George Bush can be vigorously prosecuted, as the political situation of the non-left vitally requires. that line requires some parsing, since people who don’t understand Tona’s heart may misinterpret that as a compromise.

    Tona believes in the same propaganda 70 yo NY Democrat Trum believes in, which is that Bush II created the Iraq war for political reasons. This is the result of an American who can’t blame America’s lack of patriotism on America or DC, but needs a Dear Leader to blame or exalt. The problem with that is that human leaders are made with feet of clay, they can’t hold up that much power or responsibility. Thus the Tona of Yesteryear belittled Eric’s view that Bush II’s legacy should be re-examined and counter propaganda meme used to fight back (much as the Alt Right used counter propaganda to support Trum’s failings or baggage). Thus that means the Tona of This Year, isn’t offering an actual compromise, that’s not what’s in his heart. Something more corrosive is.

    Why would Tona, who believes in Trum, believe Trum would rehabilitate the Commissar policy of character assassinating rivals, such as Bush II?

  45. @T – disappointed you reference dilbert. He is a man chasing for a story to fit his “Master Persuader” theory, and wrap himself in a kind of prestige he thinks he deserves for his “prescience”. Surprised you see value in his riff.

  46. I always read about the “stupid” things that Trump has said. It always makes me think of virtue signalling. In other words before I say something positive about him I’ll remark on his failings in order to have more credibility. Yet I have listened to many of Trump’s actual speeches as well as contextualized his comments and have yet to identify anything “stupid”. The La Raza judge presiding over his civil case is a prime example. What Trump legitimately questioned was the objectiveness of a jurist who believes in Mexican nationalism within the United States in the context of that jurist’s presiding over his civil case where Trump was advocating vociferously in a national conversation against such a view. That in no way translates into a racist view that a person of Mexican heritage is not equipped to be a judge, yet that is how the MSM framed it and sherpa bit on it. I could go on, but suffice to say the truth will be in the pudding in terms of Trump’s governance. So I caution pay attention to him actually instead of attending to a framed narrative created by those who would seek to manipulate you instead of informing you to allow you to reach your own conclusions.

  47. I’m beginning to believe Scott Adams, that Trump’s shtick was a calculated persuasive tactic. It worked. So now he is shifting to his leadership role rather than his persuasive role. Fingers crossed!

    (The colonoscopy metaphor is apt: the prep is worse than the actual event!)

  50. FOAF:

    When Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” quote first happened, I was immediately reminded of Romney’s 47% remarks, and thought it might be a turning point that went against Clinton. Hard to say how influential “deplorables” really was, but it had the same tone as his remarks, only worse.

  53. On my re-reading, I note no comments about the Democratic friend Neo quoted as saying, ““But I’m almost hoping he does win, because I’m very curious what it would be like. It would be exciting.”

    The superficiality of this statement, with its desire to be entertained by the course of a nation, struck me. Like she was on the sidelines, a soccer- loving European fixing to watch her first football game ever, instead of being on the field with the rest of us.

    Wonder what her flip side was, her opinion of a Hillary win?

  54. Donald Trump has already promised to spend the US into oblivion. Given that we already have over 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities (even Hillary was going to spend less) , what more do we need to know to reject him?

  56. There are no more “conservatives.” I say that as a life-long Conservative.

    There is the non-left, and the left.

    There is no conservative, only the Alt Right. There is no anger, only peace. It’s a kind of spiritual mantra, spoken by true believers.

    While true that the only thing that counters the Leftist alliance is another religion like the Left, Nationalist Christianity (Putin’s version or the Catholic version) may not be the kind of religion people want to use against the Left. (There’s also White Norwegian Viking religion fanatics floating around on the Alt Right boards)

    As a point of reminder, civil wars get more violent the more people setup into opposing camps. The conflict does tend to aggregate people into two opposing camps, but the people who think a Hero King will save them, should notice that by increasing factionalism in the US, even to the point where there are more than 3 sides or factions, decreases their chance of being saved by DC.

    While true that if the Leftist alliance goes uncontested, it’s just a slaughter, such as vs Quakers or the Amish. Complete pacifism doesn’t work well against human predators or even ordinary wolf packs. It is also true that by contesting the Left, using the Left’s own methods and philosophy, one becomes just as power mad, megalomaniac, as the Leftist alliance in the end. And if people refuse to believe that, then consider how low their fellow Democrat “countrymen” have fallen under Hussein, to the point where they Popular Vote Overwhelmingly for Clinton.

  59. I would never have guessed when Mother washed my brother’s mouth out with soap for ignorantly, and innocently, using the F word, that it would become a symbol of sophistication–or something.

    I have been known to cuss like a Sailor in certain company; but, not in “polite” company. Frankly, I have a hard time taking a writer or speaker seriously when they gratuitously throw in that kind of language. I have been known to tune them out if it is too egregious.

    Now, what was his point?

  60. By the way, there are worse things than a colonoscopy from one who has five–and counting. If you refuse sedation, they can be entertaining to watch on the monitor. Or at least as entertaining as many modern comedians.

  61. Oldflyer:

    Maybe he was trying to dumb it down for the yanks? We are unsophisticated rustics after all, Oh, Bloody h*ll! And “bugger off!” Wouldn’t have connected across the pond.

  62. Oldflyer:

    Agree about the relative discomfort of that procedure. Not even close to root canals, or the last 8 miles of any of my marathon experiences (the first 13 miles were fun, after that, not).

  63. I find neo defending herself for not being a never-Trump, but I had to stop coming here for six months since she was a never-Trump in all but name.

    And when I see her attacking Trump’s stance on Muslim immigration, I realize she is still a liberal, and a naive one at best. Islam is incompatible with Western values and democracy. Full stop. It’s not even debatable, and anyone who doesn’t want to stop Islamic is ignorant of history – even the recent slaughter on France just a year ago. Those who say “let’s let in more!” are co-conspirators of the next attack.

    There are over 6 billion people on the planet, the vast majority not Muslim. If you want to let more people in, fine, but screen out those who have a combined political-religious system that hates democracy.

  65. Window:

    It appears that you don’t have much of an understanding of “Western values and democracy.” But hey maybe your position is well explained on your own blog.

  66. Window Manager

    I find neo defending herself for not being a never-Trump, but I had to stop coming here for six months since she was a never-Trump in all but name.

    Well, your desire to keep away views that don’t line up with your own deprived you of some really good debate and discussion. I was one of the few actual Never Trumpers on this site and though I felt outnumbered most of the time I think it was good to have the discussion.

  67. I voted for Hillary to keep Trump out, because I hate him and I am terrified of the world destabilizing decisions he might make. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have been happy if she had won. I had it in my mind that she would likely trigger a conflagration with Russia. Politics be damned, nothing matters if we are all dead after a nuclear war. Of course, I am also scared he will do the same the moment somebody slights him. What a nightmare. Considering all this though, I do feel surprisingly ok.

  68. Pie says that liberals need to “talk to people who think differently to you and persuade them of your argument”. No. Liberals need to *listen* to people who think differently than them and open themselves up to being persuaded by them, or at least finding a common ground of compromise. He never even comes close to saying that, which is disappointing, but he’s just not there yet. He’s off one wrong track and onto another. Maybe a less damaging one.

    Frog wrote:
    > “But I’m almost hoping he does win, because I’m very
    > curious what it would be like. It would be exciting.”
    >
    > The superficiality of this statement, with its desire to be
    > entertained by the course of a nation, struck me.

    One of the defining characteristics of political correctness is the way it forbids thoughts. It seems to me that if someone, in their heart, wanted Donald Trump to be elected, but was so deeply self-censored that they were afraid to even think the thought, that this might be a way for the concept to escape their self-censorship. They decide that of course they don’t want Trump as president, but wouldn’t it be exciting?

    At any rate, this week has been one huge sigh of relief for me. I hold out high hopes for Donald Trump and high hopes for the country that I haven’t felt in a long time.

  69. Probably the worst part about voting for Trump was knowing that I’d be on the same side as some of the sanctimonious assholes who support him.
    I haven’t seen such lack of introspection and bullying behavior since my last conversation with a SJW.

  70. Window Manager:

    You are incorrect.

    I was never a NeverTrump, and always considered (and always said) that I might in fact end up voting for him, and that I wouldn’t know till I got in the voting booth.

    I also said that I reserved my right to keep my vote secret, but that it might indeed be for Trump.

    What’s more, I was very very clear that I knew I would not be voting for Hillary. Period. I knew that from the start.

    I don’t have to prove anything to anyone who has read this blog and paid attention to what I said. I never have liked the approach of many of the most fervent Trump-supporting bullies and insulters, because that’s what they are. Most people who supported Trump are not bullies and/or insulters, and certainly plenty of people on this blog supported Trump and were neither bullies nor insulters. Everyone was welcome, if they were respectful to other people. Just argue your case. Those are the rules here.

  73. Hi Neo, I too read that rant and there does appear to be hope that a sea change may be occurring on the political left that will allow for dissenting opinions. Also encouraging is President-Elect Trump’s quick outreach to the inner city communities with his just published plan to help black Americans as reported by CBS. The plan may be a takeoff on ideas promoted by Jack Kemp many years ago and includes tax incentives for companies locating facilities in the inner city, new infrastructure, etc. Bob

  74. Simon, I am still trying to process your statements. Not there yet. I wonder if your terror resulted from things that you heard Trump say, or from statements attributed to him by a hostile media? Admittedly, I felt some apprehension about Trump; but terror? No. Certainly, nothing that would cause me to vote for HRC.

    Bob, I hope that Trump’s plans for inner cities doesn’t slide into the all-too-familiar government sink hole of throwing money about willy nilly. I think of the “Great Society” or the “War on Poverty”. He simply must get the horse before the cart, and work on security in the cities–to the extent that the Federal government can– then introduce incentives for private investment.

    Post-election statements attributed to him that seem to soften some campaign rhetoric will almost surely cause angst among his supporters. But, he does seem to grasp that anything he accomplishes will be difficult and will require some coalition building.

    I know that Priebus is too “insider” for some of the faithful; but, I find the appointment very encouraging. First, because Priebus is enormously capable; and second, for what it says about Trump that he chose him.

  76. “Not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. Some are, but most aren’t” –from Tom Walker (Thanks!) actor, in his character Johnathon Pie.

    Having more Trump haters accept this would be big progress, and only after that can arguments possibly make a difference.

  77. I’m beginning to believe Scott Adams, that Trump’s shtick was a calculated persuasive tactic. It worked. So now he is shifting to his leadership role rather than his persuasive role. Fingers crossed!

    This must be why Democrats defended Ted Kennedy and Hussein. Since their agenda was going to be implemented, they were okay with their candidates manipulating the public and even lying to them.

    Window Manager Says:
    November 13th, 2016 at 8:10 pm
    I find neo defending herself for not being a never-Trump, but I had to stop coming here for six months since she was a never-Trump in all but name.

    It’s informative that the Alt Right and Trum supporters demonstrate this kind of psychological insight. Since previously, the Left and Demoncrats were scorned and belittled for living in their own bubble and being incapable of reading or talking conservative philosophy.

    Many Democrats or Republicans said they couldn’t comment or read blogs, who favored Sarah Palin. Since Palin was so “ugh” and Tea Party. It’s a kind of Cultural Othering, which allows for the mobilization of armed gangs and other conflicts. The Alt Right is doing a good propaganda support role for that, but we’ll see how long it lasts.

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