The swelling “Trump is illegitimate” meme
It was inevitable, of course, that the MSM would mount this attack on Trump’s legitimacy, particularly their leader and still champ (despite its financial woes) the NY Times.
They didn’t acknowledge the possibility of a Trump win. Now they are refusing to acknowledge the reality of the Trump win. And if it’s not Comey or fake news that’s responsible, it’s the Russians hacking and the republican (small “r”) Electoral College system.
Just look at Memeorandum’s roundup of articles and you can see what’s going on, and it’s typical of what’s been going on for many days now.
This is nothing like 2000, of course, where we had a truly contested photo-finish election and a series of court battles to decide what was essentially a tie according to the rules. This was not a tie. This result did not fall to a few votes in a single state (Florida in 2000). And this push by the left is to overturn the rules, not to follow them, for very shaky reasons.
The shakiness of the Times’ argument that Russian hacking had anything to do with the election results and Trump’s victory is thoroughly discussed here by Ann Althouse, so I’ll just suggest you read what she’s written. And also go back to Memeorandum and take a look at the headlines, particularly one from the Times entitled “Buck up, Democrats, and fight like Republicans!”
That headline alone is enough to make anyone on the right chortle—fight like Republicans? But that’s part of the meme, too; that Republicans fight low, hard, and dirty, and Democrats are gracious gents who continually need to take off the gloves.
However, the very partisan Jonathan Chait, of all people (he of “I hate George W. Bush” fame), sounds a note of reasonable caution with the whole “flip the electors” approach:
Trump’s surprising (though not unforeseeable) election has provoked a wave of fear and anger among his opponents. But much of it has been misdirected into denial or despair rather than effective channels of political mobilization. The clearest symbol of this misplaced energy is the campaign to persuade members of the Electoral College to deny Donald Trump the presidency.
The first thing to note about this effort is that it is utterly hopeless. The electors in the Electoral College who would need to be flipped are Republican politicians who were selected for their party loyalty. They have no incentive to deny the nomination to a candidate who won heavy support among Republicans at the polls, and indeed, available reports on their thinking indicate no enthusiasm whatsoever for them to ignore their states’ results. Even if this tactic were to miraculously succeed, and the Electoral College denied Trump a majority, it would only throw the contest into the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, which would elect him anyway.
Second, and more important, denying Trump the presidency through an Electoral College coup is not a procedurally legitimate response. The presidential election is a quasi-democratic process.
Chait then goes into an attack on the Electoral College which utterly fails to understand the rationale for it, much less agree with that rationale. But I’ll skip that part and go to this:
The rules of the game were known in advance and respected by all sides. Trump’s clear national-vote defeat refutes his desperate boasts to represent the national will, but it does not negate his legal right to the presidency.
Nor does Russia’s interference in the election. [Chait then argues that Trump encouraged Russian hacking and it may have flipped the election.] But we have no way of knowing this with any certainty. It is far too thin a reed upon which to base the overturning of an election that followed the rules of the game.
Chait goes on to say the remedy is political activity of the ordinary sort.
But Chait is a rare voice of relative sanity on the left. The point of all of this isn’t to win the election—I don’t think most people think a win is possible for Clinton—but to inflame those who voted for Clinton into considering Trump to be a bogus president for the next four years. With many of my friends, that will be easy enough to do—they need little encouragement to feel that way anyway, and this will more than provide it.
But there’s one little catch, and it’s not really so little a catch: the reality of unfolding events that affect people’s lives. If Trump actually ends up doing some pretty good things, the left will never acknowledge it. But most people who voted for Clinton are actually not rabid leftists. Most are people like most of my friends, who follow politics but not obsessively, who aren’t very rich or very poor but who notice things about the economy and the world, and who could end up giving Trump some grudging respect if they actually see some decent results from a Trump presidency.
You know what’s coming next, don’t you?
We’ll see.
[NOTE: If you want to get ironically amused, see this NY Times editorial from October 17, 2016. Ah, how the worm turns when the shoe is on the other foot (yes, I know; mixed and lousy metaphor):
The most frightening example [of Trump’s “reckless rhetoric”] is Mr. Trump’s frenzied claim that the presidential election is being “rigged” against him – a claim he has ramped up as his chances of winning the presidency have gone down.
Instead of disavowing this absurdity outright, Republican leaders sit by in spineless silence. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, and Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, are the two most powerful Republicans in the country and should be willing to put the national interest above their own. Both know full well that there is no “rigging,” and yet between them they have managed one tepid response to Mr. Trump’s outrageous accusations: “Our democracy relies on confidence in election results,” Mr. Ryan’s spokeswoman said, “and the speaker is fully confident the states will carry out this election with integrity.”
This is like standing back while an arsonist pours gasoline all over your house, then expressing confidence that the fire department will get there in time.
Mr. Ryan and Mr. McConnell could hardly dishonor themselves more than they already have in this sordid election year, but their refusal to stand up to Mr. Trump’s pernicious lie may be their lowest moment yet.
Other high-profile Republicans have amplified Mr. Trump’s charges and further riled up his angry base…
The integrity of the ballot box is central to American democracy and to the peaceful transfer of power. Mr. Trump may have no qualms about destroying that idea and inflicting harm on the country long after this election is over. How can Mr. McConnell and Mr. Ryan continue to stand by while Mr. Trump delegitimizes the system to which they have dedicated themselves?
To paraphrase the Times editors: the members of the MSM could hardly dishonor themselves more than they already have in this sordid election year…But they seem to have no qualms about inflicting harm on the country long after this election is over, by upsetting the peaceful transfer of power.]
Funny… but the recounts are comming up as showing Trumps numbers are actually higher… like in detroit.. where they cant recount as so much of it was really really bad
but, not doing anything about this, is what will lead us into a war… obama should never have let it start let alone build up
China installs weapons systems on artificial islands…
i guess we have to wait for the first shot to fire to believe… was the same in the 1930s/40s…
those that knew better knew, those that didnt stayed
there are a bunch of things like this
but the really really funny part of the Trump thing is that putin would rather have a capitalist constitutionalist, who would build up the military and oppose things… rather than a leftist communist (see her wesley papers) who went to college at a school that was started for women before they said that women could go to school (but not on public dole, see the seven sisters)… and has fought for communism, socialism, and a reduction of the military over and over
oh… russia been dikcing in our elections since the 1930s and later… (and probably before not long after 1917… heck, didnt take them long after that to help create the house of saud and give it the power over islam so russia had power through ibn al saud over islam to today… and dont think that they are not in control of it because they are attacked… there is many examples of russia attacking itself to demonstrate something to win.. )
take a look at the fabian glass..
it tells you all you need to know as to who starts world wars since 1900 and who likes civil wars and all that..
turn the world red and hammer it into a new shape to suit them…
The core take away on the “Election Hacked by Russians” meme: The Left is shocked, SHOCKED that Russian spies may have hacked Podesta emails and revealed embarrassing conspiracies and deceits within the Clinton campaign. It’s a puzzling position: essentially they are saying a fairer election would have been one that did not inform voters about Clinton’s multiple levels of fraud.
I’m finding a group of Low Information Voters that truly believe that Russia hacked into the voting machines and changed the vote tally. After trying to convince them that wasn’t what was hacked, they went into the “High Speed Wobbles”. I left the table for the rest of the group Christmas party as I didn’t want to ruin the season by telling them what functionally illiterate, Hillary sycophants they were. My wife approved of my restraint.
Apparently Brexit is the fault of Russian hacking too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4029342/Russian-hackers-probably-fixed-EU-referendum-vote-Brexit-says-Remoaner-MP-Ben-Bradshaw.html
I like that sore loser Remain voters are now being called “Remoaners”.
The MSM will not cease trying to drag the bloated, stinking corpse of the Hillary campaign across the finish line. The best they can do at this point is to pack the carcass with dynamite and shower us all with rotting blubber.
The left can think whatever it wants. After Jan. 20, the apparatus of the state will obey president Trump and that’s all that matters.
the members of the MSM could hardly dishonor themselves more than they already have…
That’s the thing, you always underestimate them.
The stolen election narrative plays well with LIVs who lean left, I think is yawn material for a majority of voters. Some leftist pundits appear to be embarrassed by the illegitimate meme and there are probably more who are afraid to deny the narrative. The more outrageous their manufactured ‘truths’ become, the more they play into Trump’s thumbs. Djt will not play the gwb gentleman, he’ll relish the opportunity to fight back against the msm.
LOL they like to meme about Illlegitimacy but the steady stream of high profile people parading into Trump Towers knocks the legs out from under that Leftist dream.
Some scribe questioned “Has Obama resigned the presidency?”
As usual Trump sucks all the oxygen out of the room & he even does it via long distance.
“The left can think whatever it wants. After Jan. 20, the apparatus of the state will obey president Trump and that’s all that matters.”
Maybe not. WUWT has a piece up today that the incoming administration’s 74 question survey is now being officially ignored by the Department of Energy. They actually think they don’t work for anyone….amazing.
Hmmm, I wonder how sign ups are going on the Million Woman March, January in DC can be a bit chilly, trying to get hotel space near by ? or long bus ride in ? Sounds like a good time, no?
Physicsguy:
Well…new brooms, and all that.
@London Trader, the Left casts a wide net !
Physicsguy:
A few weeks ago I read a piece (can’t remember where; don’t have time to search for it now) that was describing the post-election heartache and angst of a lot of federal government workers. Groups of them were deciding to do a mass work-slowdown to stymie his agenda.
This wasn’t the article I read originally, but it’s about the idea.
As the 10/17 NYT editorial demonstrates, the lack of self-awareness on the prog-left is massive. As I read elsewhere today, reality doesn’t disappear simply by denying its existence.
I have posted on a couple of sites, and on one relative’s face book in response to a completely erroneous post about the electoral college and popular vote. The statement was made that the U.S. is the only country in the world that does not elect its government by popular vote.
Rubbish. Almost every democracy today is in fact a Parliamentary system, and the Head of Government is elected from the parliament (usually the Leader of the majority party) I went on to comment that if there were no majority party, then a coalition government was formed—in other words through back room dealing. (How would that go over in America?) I did cursory research and learned that at present there are 28 coalition governments in Europe; including many of the big name countries. There are 13 in Asia, including Israel, India, and Japan. Six in Oceania, including Ausralia and New Zealand.
The lack of information about the prevalence of the popular vote in other countries is kind of appalling. One has to assume that the misinformation is intentional, since sophisticated observers would know the facts. I am not sure why defenders of the Electoral College do not correct perceptions that our system is out of step with the world.
I have a private sense that using the term Electoral College, and having individuals actually cast the vote is not only archaic, but is also confusing. (It seems to be nothing more than a reward system for party faithful.) These days it could be done a lot simpler and cleaner if each state’s Secretary of State just certified the results directly to the FEC (or appropriate agency). This would also eliminate the opportunity for mischief by maverick Electors.
Excellent observations. I’ve tried to put my thoughts into words, but I’ve failed. If Trump’s pro-Capitalist policies work, hopefully the Left and the Democrat Party will dissipate into nothingness.
What’s next? In four years Trump takes 49 states, just like Reagan.
Re Matt’s comment at 4:12PM, “After Jan. 20, the apparatus of the state will obey president Trump and that’s all that matters.”:
I expect that Mr. Trump and his cabinet will face Category 5 level hurricane headwinds from the entrenched lifers at almost every level of the federal government. Many of these people have been employed for decades; 90%+ of them are Donks, and it’ a sad corollary to the Civil Service rules that for all practical purposes they cannot be fired.
Just consider those smirks you see when their bosses testify before a congressional committee. Or take the 5th. Or don’t fire VA employees that leave dead bodies lying around to rot.
I’m afraid Mr. Trump & Company are in for a very rude awakening
Neo, I got a good laugh when you mentioned those government workers who are planning a “massive work slowdown” to stymy Trump. How does a bump on a log slow down?
I am responding to the Trump phenomenon by selling my gold. It is already falling like a rock. I don’t even mind losing some money as I will buy it back at a much lower price. Once the left gets back into power if I live that long.
I’m afraid Mr. Trump & Company are in for a very rude awakening
I’m afraid they might find themselves in the new EPA offices in downtown Detroit.
neo intones, “the point of all of this isn’t to win the election . . . but to inflame those who voted for Clinton into considering Trump to be a bogus president for the next four years.”
M J R humbly adds . . .
. . . and to thereby rile up the leftie base in anticipation of the 2018 and 2020 elections,
. . . and to simultaneously prime-pump the inflow of those indispensable donor dollars.
I’ve worked as a technical analyst in the Federal government for over 40 years and I doubt that Trump will face any serious headwinds. Once the massive numbers of political appointees are replaced with people who are loyal to Trump and resistant SES managers are re-calibrated by the political appointees, entrenched bureaucrats will either follow the directions that come from on high or they will face very rough times. Most will bend to the will of the political machinery that is in charge of the agency missions and employee performance plans, even if they don’t like it. A Trump administration will play hardball with defiant Feds. Many will simply retire or look for employment elsewhere, if they are still young enough. Trump is a businessman who will hold Feds to a high standard and demand that they either comply with their revised performance plans or face a form of in situ exile or being fired for defying the criteria written into their new performance plans.
Darrel:
While your scenario offers hope I also expect the entrenched leftists in the civil service to cooperate with the NGO lawyers in filing challenges through the courts, to use “whistle blower tactics” and discrimination lawsuits as means of opposition and obstruction. And of course the Dems in Congress will resort to business as usual.
I am not sure how the Trump regime will address the alphabet soup bureaucracies, but I have a tiny hope his appointees will clean house with copious amounts of bleach.
Don’t dismiss the concept of “rigging” an election out of hand.
One interesting fact brought out by the Michigan recount is that more Han 30% of Detroit’s precincts had more ballot cast than voters.
The Democrats in Michigan attempted to “rig” the election by the good old method of ballot-box stuffing. They were just overconfident and misjudged the number of “extra” votes necessary 🙂
Draining the swamp is not an ‘option’. It’s an existential necessity because those on the right literally face an emerging mortal threat in the Left.
Never underestimate an enemy, especially ideological fanatics and the American Left are composed of secular fanatics, whose ‘progressive tenets’ have assumed for them, the equivalence of religious imperatives.
This is just the beginning. The more obvious it is that they’re losing, the less constrained by law and by moral, ethical and cultural norms will they be.
GB, it is indeed just the beginning. There is going to be open defiance in California on deporting illegals. The state legal framework is going to be put in place setting up a major confrontation with the federal government, with marches and protests to follow. Read this:
https://conservativedailypost.com/california-fires-back-introducing-bill-legalize-illegals-defiance-trump/
Well CA may not like it when federal funds start to be reallocated to other states. What, the country doesn’t revolve around CA? Inconceivable!
The left has 2 dogs, one is rabid and the other is a naive puppy. One should not underestimate the former, and should attempt to put the other through another rinse cycle.
Thanks forth clarification on Ayotte. I grew up in NH in the 50s and know its politics have changed beyond all reckoning, so putting an inaccuracy like that to bed is really helpful.
Darrell at 8:31 last night:
You give me some hope, and I can see that there may be political differences depending on the agency involved (e.g., FBI vs DOJ) but my perception is based on stories like this one from 10/26/2016. From that story (in the Hill):
Among other things the Koolaid Useful Idiots are assuming (not stating) is that Vlad Putin would want a tough, conservative, general’s populating, regulation roll back, industry-energy reburgeoning economy with muscle… Rather than a spineless, easily manipulated four more years of the last eight. Sure, Dems & Slathering MSM Lapdog, old Vlad would want to help bring back Balls & Intelligence.!!!!
_____________
Yep, I buy that. And swampland. And AGW/Climate Catastrophe.
I’ve taken to reminding folks that if you are on the “Russian hacks helped elect Trump” band wagon, then what you are really saying is that when the American public knows what the DNC is doing behind closed doors, that they vote GOP, regardless of who the candidate is. Hardly a thing that covers your party with glory.
I’m trying to imagine a (Low IQ) Vlad Putin wanting to manipulate election results that would usher in conservative Republicans, Hugely Experienced & Muscular Generals, a promise of regulation roll backs & industrial & energy expansion equaling a Robust US EconomyEconomy.