So, why was Ivanka Trump flying coach?
Ivanka Trump was reportedly harassed on a Jet Blue flight by a man who was then escorted off the plane (which had not yet taken off):
A male passenger was removed from a JetBlue flight on Thursday morning after reportedly “berating” Ivanka Trump and her family shortly before takeoff at New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport.
According to TMZ, the unruly passenger spotted the president-elect’s daughter in coach on the Florida-bound flight.
“Your father is ruining the country,” the man told Trump, according to TMZ. “Why is she on our flight? She should be flying private.”
As JetBlue personnel escorted him off the plane, he purportedly protested, screaming, “You’re kicking me off for expressing my opinion?”
No, they’re kicking you off for being a potential troublemaker. Do you really think they need wait till the plane is in the air? There is no inherent right to fly on a particular airplane (they later got him another flight) if you don’t behave yourself. Just try making a joke about terrorism and see where it gets you.
And what’s up with your proudly-tweeting wife/husband?:
“Ivanka and Jared at JFK T5, flying commercial,” Matthew Lasner, a professor at Hunter College, tweeted. “My husband chasing them down to harass them.”
Later, Lasner tweeted that “his husband [had] expressed displeasure about having to travel with Trump and Kushner ‘in a calm tone, JetBlue staff overheard, and they kicked us off the plane.'”
So, Lasner claims that his husband had harassed the Trump family in the airport, but on the plane everything was calm and just between the two of them. Hmmm. And then Lasner apparently deleted both tweets.
However—and this is not a defense of the guy thrown off the plane—it’s a good question. What were Ivanka and family doing on a commercial flight in coach? Were there no alternatives in first class? How do they ordinarily travel? is it wise for the president-elect’s immediate family to be doing this sort of thing without protection? Do they not have security guards?
Because it seems quite dangerous to me. There are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate Trump and who would like to do a lot more harm than verbally harassing his family.
When I first saw this story I wondered whether it was for real or one of those “fake news” things, because the fact situation (of Ivanka on the plane, not of a guy harassing her) seemed so improbable. If it did in fact happen, I certainly hope that Trump’s relatives make other arrangements in the future. It’s all very well to say you support the regular folk, but when you’re in the position they are in you can no longer do this sort of thing and not be at risk. The guy on the plane and his spouse were virtue-signaling in a big way, and very proud of themselves. Others may be moved to do more than virtue-signal.
ADDENDUM: More information here. I’m not sure whether it’s all correct; something about this story still seems fishy to me.
The man doing the talking was identified as Brooklyn lawyer Dan Goldstein, and he was apparently holding a child during the incident. Ivanka had her husband and three children with her. There are varying reports about Goldstein’s behavior and tone. The following is relevant to my main question:
Members of Secret Service were on the flight with the family, but did not intervene and instead chose to let the airline handle the issue.
That’s an indication to me that Goldstein was not directly and physically threatening the family.
Another man who was on the flight described Goldstein as not yelling, but agitated, and he wrote:
When the JetBlue staff went back to speak to the man I overheard Ivanka say to them “I don’t want to make this a thing.” My assessment is that she was happy to let the man take his seat. Security made a different call.’
Scheff later wrote: ‘Honestly, if I was her security I would have made the same call. I don’t _think_ the man was capable of violence, sure. But I would worry that he would leave his seat or cause a scene in some way.
‘And his husband had tweeted that he planned on doing that. So, again you know my politics, but I would have made the same call here.’
You know my politics he makes sure to say. Translated: I’m not one of those awful Trump supporters. But despite that bit of somewhat-understandable virtue-signaling (he doesn’t want the hordes to descend on him for siding with the Ivanka-protectors) he seems quite sensible about the incident.
Harry Truman as POTUS took a daily walk on Pennsylvania Avenue among the citizens, with only one Secret Service guy along.
It is the Left that has been featured in all Presidential assassinations, it is the Left that is rude and ruder, as Neo’s post testifies.
I have ridden on planes with US Senators and Congressmen and they have no escorts.
Trump Force One is in Florida. I have a feeling that she’s flying coach because of the booking issue. Today is a rather busy travel day.
“What were Ivanka and family doing on a commercial flight in coach? Were there no alternatives in first class? ”
One reason people like Trump, who made their own fortunes, did so is by being frugal.
He no doubt (he seems like a smart guy) taught his children the same.
Flying coach is a lot cheaper than flying first, a class AFAIK Jetblue doesn’t even offer, or business class.
And quite likely scheduling would also make it more convenient, not just cheaper, to fly Jetblue rather than some other airline on many routes and times.
Or are you proposing a law that states that anyone with an annual income of more than say $100k will now be required to purchase a business class ticket for any flight, over $500k first class, and over $5m you’re required to have a private charter or owned aircraft?
Because that’s the only way you’re going to enforce segregation of air passengers based on income like that.
JTW:
You are the one proposing laws, that says more about you than it does about Neo. Oh, the outrage, my caps lock is stuck (not).
Frog:
First of all, how would you know whether they had security or not? Security is often incognito.
Secondly (and I would say this is the most important distinction), most Congress members are not all that recognizable. I wouldn’t recognize the vast majority of them, and I follow this stuff.
And thirdly, some of them do a lot of non-commercial flying. See this, for example (members of Congress fly on military planes under certain circumstances) as well as this (some high-profile senators use taxpayer money for charter flights) and this. Boehner apparently had a ban on using the government jets, a ban which Ryan is continuing.
I can’t seem to find any information on the use of private jets or planes by members of Congress who actually own their own planes. All the information is about chartered private flights, or accepting flights on other people’s planes (something that is a no-no except under certain conditions). My guess is that most members of Congress don’t own their own planes, of course, but some probably do. For example, I know John Glenn had his own plane, but I have no idea whether he used it while a senator.
Most members of Congress aren’t rich enough to have the option of owning their own planes, whatever the rules may be on that. But I would guess Ivanka could own her own plane or charter one. At some point, she may decide to do that if this sort of thing continues.
The jerk has apparently since deleted his entire Twitter account.
JTW:
What an absurd suggestion. Nothing in my post indicates anything of the sort.
It’s a question of judgment about security. As a couple, Ivanka and her husband are mega-wealthy. You can look it up, but they are variously reported to be worth about 350 million dollars. It’s their decision as to how they will travel. Let’s just say they could certainly afford a first class ticket, a charter, or even a private plane. They may do so in the future if they want to avoid incidents such as this one, or worse.
A Prime Minister from Norway, Jens Stoltenberg, used to go to work as a Prime Minister in a bike every morning. A Prime Minister from Finland, Alexander Stubb, used to do the same. And I think there were similar cases in Sweden and Iceland.
Another Prime Minister from Finland, Jyrki Katainen, used to travel in coach in the finnish airline. I’m talking 4-5 years ago.
US and Canada used to look a lot like the north of Europe. The question is: they still do?
Yann:
And then there was Sweden’s Prime Minister Olof Palme:
Yeah and back in the 1980s Palme PM of Sweden was shot dead in the streets. He did not use bodyguards.
This stuff starts to stop when people start to track folks like this couple down and punch them in the teeth. A couple of examples and everyone will chill.
@neo
Yeap, he was murdered, but one case, counting several Scandinavian countries, each one its own prime minister, in several decades, with prime ministers going biking and flying coach, is quite impressive.
In US you buried Kennedy and almost Reagan, with all the security around.
So perhaps you’re not pointing the question in the right direction. Perhaps you shouldn’t question what Ivanka has done, but what your country has become.
Yann:
You’re way off base. Sweden and the US are nothing whatsoever like each other in population, size, diversity, level of crime, or much of anything else.
See this for one of many articles I’ve written on the subject of violence and Scandinavian countries vs. our own.
Oh, and by the way—Kennedy was assassinated over 50 years ago. Reagan’s shooting occurred over 30 years ago. Security has entirely changed in the US since both incidents. There are no motorcades any more with presidents in open cars. Nor do presidents get out of limos and walk into hotels. The protocol is utterly different. I don’t want to jinx anyone going forward, but despite great animosity towards Bush and Obama (and even Bill Clinton), there’s not been a single important incident since Reagan (knock wood).
Members of the Royal Family (certainly William, Kate and Harry) regularly fly commercial and sometimes with discount airlines. While they do have security travelling with them it isn’t usually more than one or two people.
Remember when the president of Chick Filet said he didn’t believe in homosexual marriage and some guy went to the Chick Filet restaurant and harassed the order taker? Is it the same guy?
London Trader:
Well, although I defer to your name 🙂 , the situation isn’t quite that way, much of the time. According to this, anyway, the royals fly commercial now and then, but often fly private. What’s more, the security they have is larger than that—seven to eleven people, according to the report.
Personally I find this whole deal highly suspect and staged. Here’s why. They don’t fly commercial, they take private jets and flying commercial this time of year? Please! You will easily run into people unhappy with dear old dad…you won’t have to look hard at all. My second issue with this is she would already have a secret service security detail assigned to her that would be traveling with her, that was an immediate thing….they wouldn’t be letting her do this alone, you can bet on that; where were they? Nowhere to be found. As soon as that man would have approached her they would have been right there.
This whole thing screams “set up.”
Van:
True to form, the solution is physical assault and battery, and if that doesn’t “chill” things down there is always your little list of those who won’t be missed. Charming.
Van:
And of course if amatuer orthodontic work doesn’t work there is always the amatuer orthopedics, kneecapping? Any other wisdom?
I admire the frugality- flying the entire family first class is expensive, and it wouldn’t have prevented this asshole from harassing them anyway- he apparently saw them in the terminal prior to boarding.
1. I am happy that Ivanka flew coach. It gives her an opportunity to hear polite feedback from folks of all political stripes. (Notice I stress “polite.” During most moments during a flight each passenger should be left in peace.)
2. From the article at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4059082/Ivanka-Trump-aggressively-confronted-man-JetBlue-sitting-children-screams-father-ruining-country-asks-flight.html
we learn the following about Lasner who is employed as a professor at state/city owned Hunter College:
So, we have direct evidence that Lasner is unfit to be a professor teaching our kids at a taxpayer funded college. Hopefully he is not tenured and his professorship will be terminated forthwith.
Neo: I did say regularly – not always. Prince Harry flew commercial on his recent Royal Tour of the Caribbean (on behalf of the Queen).
https://www.royal.uk/prince-harry-visit-caribbean
and took a detour to Toronto afterwards to see his girlfriend
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2335783/prince-harry-flies-to-canada-to-see-meghan-markle/
I read the 7 to 11 people as being the entire entourage for a royal visit – not just security. It certainly appears that when Harry flew to Toronto it was without his entourage.
Here is a picture of Prince William flying to Washington DC from NY for a meeting with President Obama.
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/prince-william-takes-commuter-flight-commoners/story?id=27455261
Yet another self-important drama queen without the slightest sense of decency or self-control. Even worse how the fool was bragging about his intentions.
I believe that if a “rematch” were held today between Trump and Clinton, that all the combined underhanded forces of the left couldn’t cheat enough to win – and that includes popular vote.
Everyday since the election, millions of nonpartisan voters have witnessed the nefarious attempts to overturn a legitimate election by the corrupt-ocrat party along with the soiled-diaper behavior of its classless, delusional minions.
Further to my comment above about college professor Lasner,
If your college-aged child needs a safe space to avoid offensive words, then you have failed as a parent.
The hysteria, conspiracy theories, and the EC angst soap opera are humorous to watch from a distance. I am glad none of this is occuring on my street. Everyone I know, including people who routinely vote (D) think the spectacle is asinine.
I suspect that Ivanka, and many others in the Trump clan, have flown commercial (and in coach too) plenty of times without even thinking about it. They haven’t been actively engaged in politics long enough to know that political viewpoints can get people killed.
This incident will, no doubt, make them think twice before they do so again.
That this “virtue-signaler” is a college professor does not surprise me. In fact, I’d have been surprised if he wasn’t someone who lives in a protected bubble where everyone has the same group think.
Kudos, also to the secret service for NOT getting involved. For this could have been a set up to help identify exactly who the security guys were. A distraction, so to speak, so that the real bad guys could do more harm.
But, could you just imagine how the media would be treating this is someone went off on one of the Obamas in the same way?
Dear Om, You’ve made the list. Careful when you answer the door.
Self parody from Van. I fart in your general direction!
Van,
I highly recommend strikes to the throat over those to the teeth. Far more effect and less destructive to your hand or elbow.
Neo:
I reply
First, as to Truman, that is (well) written up. Also, he was guarded by only two Secret Service men at the time of the assassination attempt by the Puerto Ricans, one in his temporary abode, the other outside the front door.
As to Senators and Congressmen, bodyguards would stay close to them, being useless otherwise. They fly by themselves: no security.
Once, in MN, my son and I were the only passengers other than Sen. Wellstone on a flight from Int’l Falls to MSP: no security. I recognized him, and my son engaged him in conversation.
As to taking military flights, many Congresscritters do not live close to air bases of any military branch, and convenience matters when flying to and fro one’s district every other weekend or so.
As to your link about new Federal planes, I read that when the article 1st appeared. The users are said to be “government officials” (like Loretta Lynch), not just House and Senate members, who are vastly outnumbered by the cloud of officials.
Finally, I recognize my state’s Senators and most Representatives. They will be seen flying to and from my home state. I know a number of them personally (not bragging, just saying) and can assure you they are not guarded. Of course I don’t recognize more than a few from other states.
The Trump family are brilliant manipulators of our media so it is obvious to me that this was planned. Think about it…a Trump flying on Jet Blue?? Come on..
Parker:
Remember Van’s intent is to chill (at first) not to kill, hard to recover from a crushed larynx.
OM,
If you choose to engage, incapcitation and/or death is the goal. Perhaps Van just likes to strut but has no stuff to back it up. It is typical of certain types of people that I will not label because I am a gentleman. 😉
Set-up or not, planned or not, the woman and her family have every right to travel as they damn well please and have the right to be unmolested and un-harangued in the process. That they can not speaks to a lack of class (BTW note that there were apparently no problems with the other 100+ passengers on the plane).
When such folks travel privately they are criticized for being out of touch or for conspicuous consumption; when they don’t they are criticized as setting people up or for NOT traveling privately.
And also: ““You’re kicking me off for expressing my opinion?” Apparently someone needs to explain to the lawyer Dan Goldstein that that businesses can, in fact do this. The First Amendment only prohibitsgovernment interference in free speech.
I didn’t realize that I could be more anti-leftist than I was before this election, but with each passing day and with each new Progressive inanity . . . .
Yann, the leaders of a Super Power like the U.S. are potentially more in the crosshairs than some small countries . Keep importing Muslims into Europe and no politician who does not Kow Tow to the Muslims will potentially be in the crosshairs of lone Jihadist.
Matthew:
Planned? You’ve got to be kidding.
I originally thought there was a chance if was “fake news,” which is not the same as “planned.” It has been confirmed to be a very real story, however, about a real incident, according to Jet Blue.
To be planned, Lasner and Goldstein would have to be confederates of Ivanka, for example. Which is an absurd suggestion. Or are you hinting that Ivanka and husband, by flying coach with their three children and minding their own business, were actually trying to provoke an incident like this?
What are you smoking?
Neo:
Oh, for the good old days when the President or President Elect, his family, pets, house guests, relatives, etc. were not in the news every day. Back when it wasn’t always, and all the time, all about them.
The Trumps are New Yorkers. There are many pictures of Ivanka and others out on the street, dressed casually, going about their business. Who knows why she flew coach or that it means anything out of the ordinary for her and the family.
I am pretty sure if someone had purposely made an effort to track down this “Harvard Man” and his husband and then harangued them on an airplane he would feel aggrieved, at the very least. And we would hear about it on his Twitter account.
Ivanka Trump is not an elected official. Many elected officials travel commercially and in coach. Heck Uncle Joe is a regular on the WDC – Wilmington Amtrak. And, Michelle Obama even went shopping at Target.
Not that I am advocating doing anything about it – in fact I’m strongly suggesting that no one do anything. (seriously, no sarcasm at all)
But, the IT department at Hunter College is clearly away for the Holidays. One can still search for that professor and find his contact info.
Ha! I’ll bet his email inbox is filled with, um, “spam”!
In 2010 or thereabouts, I flew coach from Dulles Int’l back to Boston after a business trip. (It may have been JetBlue; I don’t recall. It was a small plane.) I was surprised to see Mitt Romney on the plane — sitting in row 1, alone as I recall. If he had any traveling companions, I did not see them.
At the risk of belaboring the obvious — wasn’t it but a short time ago that Democrats insisted, nay demanded, that President Obama’s kids were absolutely off limits for the press? (Of course, they did not extend the same courtesy to, say, Sarah Palin’s kids.)
By what right does ANYONE attack a politician’s kids for who they are? Did those kids choose their parents poorly, or something?
Kudos to Ivanka & family for flying commercial. (Among other things, that decision probably saved some taxpayer dollars; Secret Service tickets need to be paid for too.) I agree that they’re likely to rethink such decisions in the future.
Sure it was a well-orchestrated stunt to make her more palatable as erstwhile first lady and power broker. Poor lil Ivanka with no make-up, hair askew (really?) did not sense she would be confronted on a flight from NY to San Francisco? (Pence land, for sure.) Let us also not forget that, by her own admission, the 1st time her mom had her fly coach as a child, she was horrified and realized then she wanted her own money. That led to the Ct. lemonade stand and the Trump household staff having to “dig deep” to cough up money to mollify her since no one else was patronizing her stand.And if you think it is unreasonable to judge her for this display of entitlement, victimization of those in her dad’s employ and general bad judgment at such a young age, you’d be right….Unfortunately, she crowed proudly about this at age 28 in her very own book, in which she also bragged how she and her brothers defrauded their friends in an elaborate fake arrowhead scheme. Again, not so worrisome when they did it but alarming that she still thought it was a triumph at age 28. She is worse than Donnie boy.He has no moral compass; she ignores hers. Moreover, this set-up will also make her more immune to stories from those who knew her during her 4 plus year relationship with a well-known, up-scale drug dealer to the elite. Again, not a problem except for the fact that she told people to judge her father by the character of the children he raised and specifically stated that none of them had ever done drugs. She is a hypocrite par excellence and a purveyor of the Big Lie, just like Hair Furor.
helen:
I think perhaps you’ve lost your way.
You may have meant to be posting your inane comment on some other blog, one more sympathetic to catty, juvenile, envious hatred.
For example, I suggest this one, if you’re looking for like-minded people. You’ll find a lot of comments similar to yours in the comments section there. I am sure they will appreciate the insight, depth, and penetrating analysis involved in “Poor lil Ivanka,” “hair askew (really?),” “Donnie boy,” and the pinnacle of wit, “Hair Furor.”