The War of the Words: Trump vs. the press, the press vs. Trump
It’s gotten so that I can hardly stand to look at the news.
Now, the regular readers here know my opinion of Donald Trump. Let’s just say I’m no sycophant. I criticized him harshly before the nomination (a nomination I thought he had a very good chance of winning), and continued to criticize him after his nomination and thought he was likely to lose the election (although again, I thought he at least had a chance of winning—one in three). And I never, never supported Hillary.
But beginning with the night of the election, when Trump stepped up to give his victory speech, I noticed a marked change for the better in him, a diminution (not elimination) of the frivolous and/or offensive, and a growth of what could roughly be called a statesman-like bearing and thoughtfulness.
That does not mean I’ve stopped being a critic. But it means I’m feeling cautiously optimistic. I like a great deal of what Trump’s done (not everything) in terms of appointments. And if his demeanor and tweets still leave a lot to be desired, they are much improved.
But what has really turned my off lately—and not from Trump—is the behavior of the MSM towards him. I’m not naive about the MSM, what it wants and what it does. But I’ve never, never ever ever, seen anything remotely like the unrelenting vitriol, the unfairness of much (again, not all) of the coverage, particularly so early in the game.
Honeymoon? This is war. And the MSM’s stance is “But he declared war on us, innocent us, and we’re only trying to tell the truth!” I am certain that a lot of people are buying that, particularly if they’re predisposed to detest Trump, and if they’ve declared war on him already, too (and think he’s about to send the storm troopers to get them).
And all of this after the media has had an eight-year (actually, nine, if you count the 2008 campaign) love affair with Obama.
The MSM is loving this war. They love playing the victims. And the guy has barely taken office! It’s a spasm of media self-congratulation, virtue signaling par excellence. Feels good, I’m sure.
And Trump, of course, is fighting back, as are his aides, sometimes unwisely, sometimes even stupidly. I think Trump should choose his battles, and in particular his tactics, more wisely. He’s not listening to me, of course, and why should he be? He has what he considers a winning formula. And a familiar one: punch back twice as hard.
I have to admit that I can hardly blame him at this point. And remember, I’m a person who traditionally has had no trouble whatsoever blaming Trump, so I think I have some bona fides on this. We’ve had GOP gentlemen before as presidents or nominees—G. W. Bush and Mitt Romney come immediately to mind—and it got them nowhere. George Bush in particular showed remarkable forbearance towards the hostile press during his term, maintaining a nearly Olympian stance. All that happened was that his enemies controlled the narrative.
So, this is the verbal equivalent of war. Traditionally, that’s a fight the press will win. After all, they control the airwaves and the print media. Maybe not as much as they used to, with Fox News (that’s the news outlet with which Obama went to war, although the left didn’t complain about that particular fight), the internet, and social media such as Twitter. Most Trump supporters (perhaps all?) distrust and even hate the MSM and discount it, cheering him on in his disregard for it and contempt for it. But the MSM has quite a few tricks up its sleeve, too.
You know what I’m going to say, don’t you? We’ll see.
MSM working 24/7 to create problems. Latest is the investigation of General Flynn and his contacting Russia. Is an American citizen prohibited from contacting the Russian government? Seems odd.
Continuing with the battle imagery, the MSM remind me of the French army at The Battle of Agincourt, blundering around on their horses hoping to destroy the greatly outnumbered English. We all know how that ended, at least according to Holinshed and Shakespeare. Are Trump’s tweets going to be like the volleys of arrows loosed by the English archers? This is where my imagination comes up short.
Neo…I get my news from sites like yours, Powerline, national Review, Drudge…it works great, too, because I know you all are scowering the MSM sites and reporting on the major stories of the day…I’ve grown to trust the reporting my favorite sites do on these issues…makes it easy to stay up to date and saves me the aggravation of reading MSM myself
Gotta believe MSM is slowly but surely losing more and more readers to sites like yours and the others I mentioned…over time suspect many of them will go bankrupt. I also doubt they have the ability to moderate…suspect they will keep up their antics until they become a complete joke(if they aren’t already)
This is a war that NOBODY wins!
Yes. The msm are biased, and seem to be suffering from tds.
However, trump’s campaign, by not feeling beholding to facts, and with personal insults and fake stories (e.g. wrt Cruz’s father), has rather doubled down on all this.
Folks wanted someone who “fights”, but without regard for how he does it, or for what he’s fighting for, it just invites reaction in kind.
Full frontal assault begets full frontal assault. Lies beget lies.
Don’t expect this to subside any time soon, after all, trump has yet to become so presidential to the point of becoming a bore.
It is in trump’s interest that this kind of fight continues. It will distract, and become a reason to blame for future failures (sounds familiar?).
In the meantime, we all lose, as it gets to a point where it forces us to pick and accept only one side’s version of “truth” in order to remain within the “team”, and to shut up about what we actually see.
To win, the MSM will need to pull away Trump voters, not just entertain those who are already on their side. In a time of war that will be more difficult than usual, especially as many of Trump’s supporters want war and despise the media. I think Trump will survive the onslaught as long as he hangs tough, and the 2018 elections already loom over the Democrats. Get ready for two years of hard ball politics.
“Traditionally, that’s a fight the press will win. After all, they control the airwaves and the print media. “
Broadcasting licenses. Print is dying and increasingly irrelevant.
“Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war.” Ernest Hemingway
Cornhead,
When a prospective democrat nominee calls Russia it is an admirable attempt at dialog. But when a prospective republican nominee calls Russia it is reprehensible collusion. They are incapable of shame at their hypocrisy.
Llwddythlw,
Several factors greatly advantaged the English:
Paul R,
Me too and I agree, they’re trashing their credibility with every lie exposed. Here’s an example: “Mall attendance at the Trump inauguration” Here’s the image promoted by the media…
Here’s the view when Trump is speaking, the one the media did not publicize…
Note: you can move the image with your cursor.
The mainstream media is to me extremely stupid. They talk to each other, they went to school with each other, and they still think they are the smartest people in the world. Very little of what they “report” is really anything. After being Obama’s propaganda organ for nine years, they really don’t know how to do anything else except shill for Obama. So they continue to do this. But Trump has changed the rules. They still don’t know this. They will never know this. They think Hillary is still running somehow. I do believe a good number of folks ignore them. Yes, the mainstream media is losing it. Will it really matter? I just don’t think it will. We’re in a new world now. And Trump knows what he’s doing. And they are just so terribly upset.
The MSM has lost all credibility after 8 years acting as bho’s cheerleaders. They have also lost some of their customers. I went sour on them during Reagan’s first term and do not trust them to provide unbiased information. They don’t know how to corral Trump, so they will work frantically to make some stick. Soon they will resort to wild conspiracy theories.
I too would like to see Trump choose his twitter wars more carefully.
George Bush in particular showed remarkable forbearance towards the hostile press during his term, maintaining a nearly Olympian stance. All that happened was that his enemies controlled the narrative.
True. Also true is that Trump and his supporters mostly swallowed that narrative whole and used it to roll the Old GOP Guard.
Like Big Maq I don’t get the impression Trump and his supporters care much more about truth than the MSM.
Well, the press briefing just ended. What a cat fight.
It is clear that Sean Spicer is not going to back away from the press. I thought he tried too hard to engage, but he is not a novice at this business by any means.
The great media story of the past few days has been about how he “lied” about inaugural attendance. He shot that down; not that anyone will report it. He read his actual quote–how refreshing– which stated that it was “the most viewed inaugural there, and around the world”. Then he cited figures for TV viewing, and on-line streaming to support his claim. The media simply quibbled about what he had said, so he read his quote several times. It never seemed to penetrate closed minds.
I have stated that I thought that they should save their ammo for the big issues. Clearly, they think that they need to establish the terms of debate immediately, regardless of the issue. They are the pros.
What did cause me to cringe was a lengthy, fairly emotional complaint about media bias at the end. He made reasonable points, but then could not stop. It ended up sounding an awful lot like whining to me.
Thoughts from Captain Obvious
“In war the first casualty is truth.”
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-21510,00.html
“Politics is War By Other Means.” “On War” by Carl von Clausewitz,
“Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.”
http://jamie.workingagenda.com/blog/2010/06/12/who-said-be-careful-what-you-wish-for/
I hear ya, but the media bias is now so toxic to our politics, something has to give.
What I see that makes it really bad, is that the Democrats now count on it. This makes them feel entitled to hang tough when they should compromise. They think the media can soften up the right, and they will get their way more often than not if they just refuse to budge.
I mean we passed a budget out of congress 1 time in 8 years under Obama, per the wagoner act? I think thats its name. All others continuing resolutions, that bust budgets and allows for no accountability.
Until Democrats see a media that holds them to the same standard as repubs, we are going to see outright war, which we haven’t seen war yet. The ball is really in the medias court. They need to break ranks with each other and call each other out when one goes off into advocacy land.
If they don’t, I think we see more massive protests, then counter protests to show support. Then side by side massive protests, then it gets real ugly when violence breaks out.
Huxley, you must think that Trump’s supporters are deplorable.
Of course, your unqualified characterization of Trump supporters seems to paint with a very broad brush since there are millions who were not originally Trump supporters but are, now that he is President.
Oldflyer: I’m not interested in being told by strangers what I think.
I don’t think Trump supporters are deplorable. I think they are human and are making a human choice in favoring winning over caring much about the truth.
I note that you have responded in a Trumpian fashion by attacking me rather than declaring your concern for the truth.
Big Maq,
Violence begets violence?
“Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’.” ― George Orwell
A fight cannot be won if one side insists upon playing by the rules while the other side not only violates all the rules but cynically promotes the falsity that to abandon the rules is to ‘fall’ to their level. A man bound to fight only with his fists is at an impossible disadvantage against another unhindered by any restraint upon the weapons he may employ. A club is of little use against a shotgun.
The brutal truth is that an irrational, fanatical, merciless, internal enemy without conscience is actively engaged in a war with us and will not rest until one of us is gone from the earth.
Geoffrey Britain,
You’re absolutely right, there were several other factors at work during Agincourt. In order to bolster my flimsy analogy, however, I deliberately went only on the details of Holinshed, Shakespeare and also the Olivier and Branagh films which seem to attribute most of the success to the archers (at least that’s the case for Olivier’s film, remember the sound of the arrows as they flew through the air?).
What really gets to me is the fact that CNN presents America to the world, and people abroad who view it think they are getting an accurate picture of America. BTW, they don’t run ads in Germany, only the same repetitive self promotion of their programs and reporters. I don’t know whether the cable providers pay them.
“I think they are human and are making a human choice in favoring winning over caring much about the truth.” huxley
I agree. I also think you fall prey to Alinsky’s #4 Rule for Radicals: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.“
“When I am the weaker, I ask you for mercy and forgiveness because that is your principle; but when I am the stronger, I show no mercy, because that is my principle.” The dialectic of the Left
Once beaten, extending mercy and a ‘second chance’ to the Left is a suicidal formula. Sooner or later they will bury you because their ideology posits that they MUST do so. It is for them an ideological imperative. As ‘utopia’ cannot be achieved without it.
WWII and Japan showed the way; first eliminate their ability to resist. Then implement permanent change. Then work toward a greater truth.
Llwddythlw,
IMO the English longbow was the decisive factor at Agincourt. Yes the mud and other conditions were ideal but to my limited knowledge, after the longbow’s introduction it ruled supreme, until the rifle appeared. Nothing beats being able to reach out and kill an enemy beyond their ability to do the same.
@Geoffrey
I believe that by the end of the Hundred Years War armor had improved to the point that long bow arrows could no longer penetrate. ISTR that even at Agincourt few who could afford good armor were killed or wounded by archery. Archers were also vulnerable unless in protected positions, in the open they were run down by the calvary.
The actual facts (Agincourt) are astonishing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuVtP_xepU
It turns out that the weather (fog) and the mud (same as Flanders) and the fold of the terrain were THE decisive factors.
The longbow was — astonishingly enough — irrelevant. No-one could even see far enough to use its range… and the French had so up-armored that the English arrows no longer penetrated.
@GB – the problem is we are indeed seeing something different this time. Some call it trump derangement syndrome, as I have referenced above.
I see that as an escalation, not a winning strategy.
Just because I don’t advocate “fighting” with the lies, innuendos, “alternate facts” (lies?!), and contradictions (as some would like to think, “fighting fire with fire”) that permeated the trump campaign doesn’t mean I advocate pacifism, far from it.
.
BTW, followed your gigapixel link (did you notice it was from CNN?)
It seems to closely match this one, which indeed seems to show a larger crowd than the side by side ones:
https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2017/01/C2vkyVAUAAAU2Zb.jpg-large.jpeg
Still, both of those seem to show a smaller crowd than this McClatchy one from a similar angle, of the 2009 inauguration of obama, published in December 2016 (i.e. BEFORE trump’s inauguration).
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article122672654.html
WTOP has a series of photos. Number 2 gives the closest comparison in terms of angle and difference. Notice that trump’s also has a grand stand in front of the Washington Monument that wasn’t there w obama’s – not sure if that makes up for the empty space in front of it and closer to Capitol Hill.
http://wtop.com/inauguration/2017/01/trumps-inauguration-crowds-compare-photos/slide/2/
Conclusions:
1) trump exaggerated by claiming the largest crowd ever for an inauguration
2) the msm published photos which exaggerated, in the opposite direction, the smallness of trump’s crowd.
The msm are behaving exactly as they always have – The horror of it all!
At the news conference the first question went to the Post, not the AP. To me, that is the most significant items. Spicer seemed to signal he will freeze out Old Media unless they behave.
chuck & blert,
A small percentage of the French forces were fully armored. Armor was expensive and basically reserved for the nobility. But they were the ones slaughtered at the end. Their deaths ended the battle.
That dynamic continued until the advent of gunpowder. So I continue to maintain that the great percentage of the French forces killed and wounded at Agincourt were the result of the English longbow.
Big Maq,
Glad to learn that you are not an advocate of pacifism. I think it quite likely that the attendees at Obama’s first inauguration outnumbered Trumps. Obama’s con of “hope and change” was at its zenith, while Trump is selling survival. A proposition that half of America rejects as groundless hyperbole. But there are always more fools than wise.
I don’t care how many attended, but it seems obvious this story was created so that they they could declare Trump’s first day a “failure” based on crowd size. Is it a coincidence that the protesters intentionally blocked entrances to the inauguration? After the DNC & Podesta leaks showing collusion with the press, color me skeptical.
Republicans don’t typically push back, and so hard, on whatever the day’s silly media narrative is against them. Trump does, even when it seems petty. After watching so many Republicans lied about and treated poorly by the media for years, I think it will be entertaining to see if the new approach works.
“Trump is selling survival” – GB
Not sure what trump is selling, exactly.
That is one core problem wrt trump.
.
On another note, was listening to Mark Levin on the drive tonight.
He was critical of (to almost excoriating) trump on a number of points.
WOW!
For the segments I heard (way too many commercials and local news breaks on these shows, btw, so don’t get much but a few brief moments), it was definitely verging on trashing trump.
But, Levin was still was very much a Constitutionalist and traditional conservative in his rationale.
One point he made that resonated…
“if trump is so much “America First” in everything, what’s he going to do about his hotels and resorts that are off shore?
Clearly he invested and created jobs there – why doesn’t he sell and bring that money home and create jobs here? – not like there isn’t enough space in the US to build the same thing.” – (paraphrasing) Mark Levin
Rather turns trump’s own argument on its head, as in, do as I say, not as I do.
He went further and said he hopes some CEO has the guts to stand up to trump, and who would take trump to court for any “discriminatory federal practices” (my words).
Might have to start tuning in to him, after this long hiatus.
The brutal truth is that an irrational, fanatical, merciless, internal enemy without conscience is actively engaged in a war with us and will not rest until one of us is gone from the earth.
GB: When I first read this I assumed you were speaking of radical Islam, then I realized you are talking about Democrats.
Sorry. I just don’t see America in such utterly dire black-and-white terms.
Nor do I believe the world works on entirely will-to-power terms. If that were true, all humans would be living in nation-state-concentration-camps like North Korea.
Aspiring to higher ideals does not guarantee better outcomes but it’s not a hopeless strategy either.
“But what has really turned my off lately–and not from Trump–is the behavior of the MSM towards him. I’m not naive about the MSM, what it wants and what it does. But I’ve never, never ever ever, seen anything remotely like the unrelenting vitriol, the unfairness of much (again, not all) of the coverage, particularly so early in the game.” [Neo]
Neo,
Have you though that this may be precisely why Trump seems to not let anything go without reaction or remark? If this is a strategy to discredit the MSM, then it’s working magisterially as evinced by your first sentence above, and the downside of not doing it you pointed out yourself: ” George Bush in particular showed remarkable forbearance towards the hostile press . . . . All that happened was that his enemies controlled the narrative.”
You also write:
“So, this is the verbal equivalent of war. Traditionally, that’s a fight the press will win. After all, they control the airwaves and the print media.”
We have always been cautioned to never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel. We have yet to see whether ink by the barrel is overwhelmed by POTUS with the pixel.
Not a Trump support, at first; but, man oh man, I am liking him so much!
Hit back – twice as hard. Call them out on their shenanigans. THAT is what these “alternative facts” are about.
I do believe that if the MSM doesn’t stop it they will almost certainly guarantee a Trump presidency of EIGHT years. Most folks don’t like a bully unless he is a bully standing up to another bully. And is Trump a bully standing up to a bully known as the MSM.
huxley:
Geoffrey seems to have stepped up the war metaphors and the demonization of political opponents since Trump won the election. After months and months of stating “I fear that a civil war is coming…”, or that Trump may be a “Caesar-lite,” which the country can recover from, lately it’ as if martial law is what “they” deserve and charge them for the bullets that are used on “them.” But maybe I’m exaggerating.
An addendum to my comment @9:01 above.
In his post @ 6:47 Ace (of Spades) writes:
The Trump administration, at least so far, refuses to concede that privilege to the MSM. Glenn Reynolds believes the MSM reaction is fueled by “status anxiety.”
It’s about time.
WWII and Japan showed the way; first eliminate their ability to resist. Then implement permanent change. Then work toward a greater truth.
GB: So where does this end?
If the conflict between progressives and conservatives is truly existential and we should jettison our willingness to play by the rules, where do we stop?
Should Trump hire the best Goebbels around to lie for the cause?
Should we get on with any and all dirty tricks we can come up with to hurt progressive individuals?
Should we move on to bombs and assassinations?
One of my surfer buddies became one of the top paramilitary white supremacy leaders in the 1980s. He acted on his convictions and ended up serving ten years for a violent conspiracy.
He wasn’t wrong about everything, but he saw the world in such apocalyptic terms that he felt he had no choice but to stop playing by the rules and that’s where he ended up.
@Huxley
We have been in a civil war since Bush was elected. McCain and Romney failed to recognize that fact and got all beat all to hell playing nice. Our traditional government also died during Obama’s terms: only one budget. The power of the purse invested in Congress was rendered useless. I’ve long known that nothing stays unchanged, certainly not government. We are in a time of revolutionary change abd I have no idea how it will play out, but the idealized past is dead. I don’t think Trump is as dangerous as you seem to think, but we will see. Meanwhile, trust in God and keep your powder dry.
Chuck:
Look up the words “civil war.” It doesn’t mean what you describe. It usually involves massive loss of life on both sides. Just sayin.
We have been in a civil war since Bush was elected. McCain and Romney failed to recognize that fact and got all beat all to hell playing nice.
chuck: No. McCain and Romney did better than Trump in the popular vote, even though they ran against the Black Messiah.
Trump’s votes were distributed more strategically in terms of the Electoral College when he was running against Hillary’s sloppy seconds. That’s why he won.
I think it’s a disaster (Sad!) if conservatives conclude Trump proved that an R candidate must be a lying vicious hole to win.
Gosh, thanks OM, it would never have occurred to me. Literal much?
@huxley,
And yet they lost. McCain was up in the beginning and managed to blow it. Remember how he and Obama were going to depend on public financing? Then Obama backed out and paid no price. The mishandling of Palin was epic. Then Romney let the press define him and didn’t know how to fight back. And that after getting squashed by Kennedy using the same tactics. Slow learner there.
Trump is a bullshitter, but better adapted to the sewer of current politics. I think his appointments look good, certainly competent. His economic ideas worry me, but we will see.
chuck: I think you miss my point.
Trump would have done far worse if he had run against Obama in 2008 or 2012 than McCain or Romney.
Luckily Trump ran against Hillary, a corrupt, charisma-less insider in a year of a change.
And he barely managed to squeak out a win by 78,000 votes in three key states.
“He’s not listening to me, of course, and why should he be?”
True, if he did he would be an abject loser, which he is not.
The leftist hegemony has smothered us like a ton of sodden newspapers.
Trump is SINGLEHANDEDLY defeating them.
Delicate sensibilities are being offended by a brilliant man.
The soviet media – – the absolute necessary condition of THE leftist hegemony in our culture/society/politics – – are being smashed like the Berlin Wall.
Personally, I am euphoric.
Concerns about the soviet media exploiting Trump’s purported mistakes miss what is taking place.
Big Maq,
Trump wants to stop illegal immigration. He wants to properly vett Muslim migration. He wants to restore America’s economic viability. He wants to rebuild our military. He sees the MSM as a threat to responsible governance. He sees both parties as complicit in America’s failure to resolve these issues.
ALL of those issues, unaddressed… are mortal threats to the republic. His solutions are arguable but his identification of the problems is 100% accurate.
huxley,
I am speaking of the extreme left, not the enabling liberal useful idiots.
OM,
I feared a civil war if Hillary was elected. My talk of war is a response to the Left’s declaration of war. They’ve made quite clear that they will use any means necessary to stop any reforms we favor.
huxley,
You stop when your enemy’s ability to resist is permanently broken. I am not suggesting extra-constitutional means, I am suggesting taking off the kid gloves, i.e. prosecution and imprisonment. Force when confronted with violence. Rioters shot when they destroy property. Stop treating the uncivilized civily. Their actions place themselves outside civilized norms. You don’t try to ‘reason’ with the rabid.
Trump proved that people are fed up with the political correctness that allows mortal threats to metastisize.
I find it amusing that after I mildly impugned Trump supporters with “I don’t get the impression Trump and his supporters care much more about truth than the MSM”, not a single Trump supporter has come forth to say they do care about truth.
To Chuck and Geoffrey:
Too literal? Martial law, civil war, blunt instruments, not precise cures. Do you understand the basics, it doesn’t appear so?
Kind of like suicide being a terminal solution for a temporary affliction. Too subtle for you?
Keep your powder dry. Try prayer.
Geoffrey:
Trump proved that anyone but Hillary could win the last election. We will see what the new administration can do. Lay off the war/civil war tropes.
This is supposed to be a happy time; BHO is gone, HRC is not POTUS, the new administration gets to select 50% of the federal judiciary, political fighting will occur, but that isn’t war or civil war. Maybe you are confusing the USA with some other place?
Oldflyer Says:
January 23rd, 2017 at 3:34 pm
Well, the press briefing just ended. What a cat fight.
It is clear that Sean Spicer is not going to back away from the press. I thought he tried too hard to engage, but he is not a novice at this business by any means.
* * *
I read the transcript – I think Spicer gave as good as he got.
Lizzy Says:
January 23rd, 2017 at 7:32 pm
I don’t care how many attended, but it seems obvious this story was created so that they they could declare Trump’s first day a “failure” based on crowd size. Is it a coincidence that the protesters intentionally blocked entrances to the inauguration? After the DNC & Podesta leaks showing collusion with the press, color me skeptical.
Republicans don’t typically push back, and so hard, on whatever the day’s silly media narrative is against them. Trump does, even when it seems petty. After watching so many Republicans lied about and treated poorly by the media for years, I think it will be entertaining to see if the new approach works.
* * *
If there was collusion (IF??), I wonder if they were smart enough to keep it out of their emails?
T Says:
January 23rd, 2017 at 9:01 pm
Neo,
Have you thought that this may be precisely why Trump seems to not let anything go without reaction or remark? If this is a strategy to discredit the MSM, then it’s working magisterially..
* * *
Does he think that far ahead, or just take advantage of what comes around?
A good phrase I heard today (about something else entirely) was “it came out of the clear blue sky … just like a scheduled jetliner” — meaning that the little things you don’t pay attention to lead to the big things you can’t ignore.
T Says:
January 23rd, 2017 at 9:21 pm
An addendum to my comment @9:01 above.
In his post @ 6:47 Ace (of Spades) writes:
“A caste with pretenses of being superior does not actually become superior until the lower castes affirm the superiority of that caste by conceding to them the immunities and privileges they assert.”
The Trump administration, at least so far, refuses to concede that privilege to the MSM. Glenn Reynolds believes the MSM reaction is fueled by “status anxiety.”
It’s about time.
* * *
Good point – but you aren’t an inferior lower caste until you act like one.
huxley Says:
January 23rd, 2017 at 8:56 pm
The brutal truth is that an irrational, fanatical, merciless, internal enemy without conscience is actively engaged in a war with us and will not rest until one of us is gone from the earth.
GB: When I first read this I assumed you were speaking of radical Islam, then I realized you are talking about Democrats.
Sorry. I just don’t see America in such utterly dire black-and-white terms.
* * *
The problem is that so long as any group follows the “no holds barred war to extinction” ideology, the group under attack must inevitably fight back in the same way — and that true is regardless of the doctrines or goals of either group.
However, huxley and David French are both correct that the defending group can maintain some principles and humanity that the attacking group foregoes.
(BTW, this type of internecine warfare is demonstrated several times in the historical sections of the Book of Mormon, precisely to point out the doctrinal principle that there are both righteous and unrighteous ways to practice self-defense.)
Exactly who, beyond team trump or the idiots of the msm/dnc care about the size of the crowd at djt’s inaugural ceremony. I vote zero. He won 304 at the EC. Game over. There is the rule of law. Don’t like the outcome change the law. Good luck on getting 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree to that Amendment.
BTW, cry me a river and quoting Cervantes, “I piss upon you all from a great height.” (Je pisse sur vous tous d’une grande hauteur.)
The media really is The Opposition now, since the Dems are led by old, ineffective, less than media-savvy types. Spicer will have to go a long way to lie more than Josh Less Than Earnest. Better if he doesn’t lie at all, to be sure. Interesting that some of the harshest criticism here is from the Will/Kristol school of conservative commentators, who really seem to see Trump, and by extension Spicer (a very Trumpian type for sure) as beneath them. Just Not Their Kind.
OM @ 12:15,
I get it. Be happy. Nothing to see here, move along. Business as usual.
Complacency in the face of mendacity is a serious mistake.
But of course President Trump bears no watching because if he is “Caesar-lite” it will only be a temporary inconvenience. What is that you said, Complacency in the face of mendacity?”
“Don’t bother me boy, I’ve got a civil war to fight!” (Foghorn Leghorn)
Having read through the 50 comments that precede mine … the problem here is that the party being attacked does not have the option of pretending that it is not being attacked. The party under attack has a choice of what to do about it, but that there is an attack, and a decision has to be made what to do about it, is not a choice.
Truly evil and depraved people lost this last election, but they are by no means planning to lose the war. In places I go that are much seedier than here, I am watching the enemy forces. Some are literally paid mercenaries. Some are dangerous ideologues which appear to actually believe what they spout. For example, we have entered a time in which there are people prepared to argue that the Constitutionally protected right to protest includes violence, and their viewpoint is spreading from the bubbling cauldrons of such sites out through the social media of real people that you know. You’d like to believe that people you actually know – sometimes your friends and family – don’t believe that rioting and intimidating drivers while blocking roads and highways is “peaceful protest” but I am watching the other side finesse that idea into the minds of the susceptible. My own friends – who would freak out if confronted by a wall of people blocking the roads – are now arguing that this is a perfectly valid form of protest. The enemy is very good at twisting weak minds, and the rank and file of the left is full of very weak minds.
More on point, I watched “crowd size” thing grow over the weekend. It’s an idiotic point. Trump tended to draw large local crowds; but a lot of his voters don’t have the means, days off, or interest to travel to DC in January for an inauguration. There are probably about eight people total who live within easy travel distance to DC who voted for Trump, unlike Democrat presidents, which have a large local contingent for whom showing up is easy. Moreover, while Trump is a phenomenon, he is not the “First Black President.” The dumb kids back in 2008 who were busy crowing “We did it! Yay!” were exactly the sort of people who would see it as Really Cool to go to DC to gaze upon their rock star at his inauguration, a sort of political Mecca. Oh yeah, and the weather was lousy. All that combined means that the turnout would be less. No one would have cared but …
I watched them whip that up as a topic. The same creepy lines of communication that pass along every other anti-Trump rumor and negative for general consumption were off and rolling with this one: small crowds = NO ONE LIKES TRUMP (so if you do, you’re stupid and in the minority so just give up now). They literally work 24/7 on various ways, trivial, childish, tacky or just plain false, to pass on constant anti-Trump stories designed to make the left feel better and stronger and to make the right feel like they backed the wrong horse.
In well over 25 years of online debate and news watching, I have literally never seen anything like this. It’s partly just due to the full maturation of social media, but there is a creepy undercurrent that drives it, the likes of which I’ve never seen before.
I agree that Trump needs to pick his wars because every single thing he says or does, or doesn’t say or doesn’t do, will be second-guessed and picked apart, but I am starting to realize that “hitting back twice as hard” is probably the only thing that might work against this – and that, only because their strategies are finely tuned to deal with righties so they don’t have any current experience with how to deal with people who are prepared to fight back, hard and dirty.
OM,
Trump certainly bears watching and his prior rhetoric and contradictions give us plenty of reasons for doing so. At least so far, he’s taking very good actions and actions will always speak louder than words.
Stopping the TPP agreement has ended a looming threat to our national sovereignty.
Trump’s authoritarian bent may turn into a problem but possibilities cannot be equated to certainties until they manifest. Whereas on the Left, the certainties could not be more certain.
The truism, “Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof” still applies. Today and for the foreseeable future the evil lies on the Left. At some point in the future ‘caesar-lite’ may arise but until that happens concentrating on the actual threat is simply common sense.
Can you see the forest for the trees?
@Kyndall – I’m very okay with hitting back twice as hard, but not in the trumpian way.
trump has trouble sticking to the truth, or at least, not way over-exaggerating the truth, and he cannot let any challenge to that go.
Is it any wonder that this, then, becomes an angle of attack from the left?
Tit for tat does not equal exaggeration for exaggeration, lies for lies.
Perhaps trump can refrain from wrapping himself up in the importance of crowd size, polls, etc., to prove his support and legitimacy, rather than challenging every contrary fact, would be a better /smarter approach.
Perhaps keeping to the actual facts, not try to stretch them, or make up unverifiable claims, etc., would be a better / smarter approach.
THEN, he can come from a position of credibility in attacking the untruths that the left / msm publish / promote. He can hit as hard as he wants from this position, and make it stick.
Until then, it is trash and lies all the way down, and nothing will stick but the mud on everyone involved.
NOBODY wins that war.
“Stopping the TPP agreement has ended a looming threat to our national sovereignty.“ – GB
Disagree.
Might agree that certain aspects were far from ideal.
However, turning down the deal doesn’t just prevent those less than ideal terms from becoming policy.
This opens the door for accelerating China’s growing influence in that region, unless the US is quick to replace TPP.
Don’t see that trump had any desire, let alone, plans to do so.
Wouldn’t be a problem if it was Canada, or the UK we were talking about rather than China, still a strategic threat to the US.
What does that do to our “national sovereignty” / “national security”?
Turning down this deal isn’t as “clean” an argument as you make it to be.
“Today and for the foreseeable future the evil lies on the Left.”
He never will see it coming. Tut tut, why worry be happy.
“Does [Trump] think that far ahead, or just take advantage of what comes around?” [Aesopfan @ 12:31]
I don’t know. It’s too early to tell. As Auric Goldfinger said: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.” Let’s see how consistently this plays out.
I do believe, however, that Trump is (still) consistently and severely underestimated. I expect that that will change over time.
Maq, I am certainly not going to advise Trump on how to fight. I do agree that in cases where there is some kind of objective truth, if it’s on his side, he should run with it and if not, he should probably scale back the bluster on that topic. But here’s the situation: he is trapped in a small fighting ring surrounded by angry bears, poisonous snakes and rabid weasels in (somewhat) human form. He can’t reason with them and the truth doesn’t matter at all in the fight they have taken to him.
Moreover, no one in the audience on the side of the bears, snakes and weasels cares one tiny iota about actual truth. They don’t. I’ve been debating and fighting these people for years. If they don’t want to like the number 2 today, 1+1 does not equal 2, and no amount of logic will lead them to admit it. However, the same people, tomorrow, will point and laugh at a right-of-center person for not knowing that 1+1=2. They are that steadfast in refusing to acknowledge any kind of actual immutable fact, and that hypocritical.
There are countless things Trump could do that would cross the line into what someone like me will not accept or defend in any way. I am a conservative Constitutionalist, who considers the rule of law, and equal and inherent rights for all citizens to be inviolate principles. I believe that a nation’s first responsibility is to its citizens. For the time being, I am watching to see how Trump fights forces that represent the opposite of my principles and for now, he is doing a better job at it than any politician of our time probably could.
I started off my professional life in media and I’m old enough to know what the idealized role and rules of media are (or at least, were). Current mainstream media is so far out of line that it is literally and proudly a propaganda tool, not media. They’re not credible or truthful and they’ve launched a war which they’re fighting by their rules. On this forum we have literally spent years second-guessing the nice-guy Republicans who never had a chance in wars started by the left, because they always felt constrained to act by their own higher standards, and not the gutter-level rules of what they’re fighting against. Now we have – well, whatever Trump is, he’s perfectly willing and able to fight by his opponent’s declared rules and that’s worked pretty well for him so far.
So yes, it strategically unwise for Trump to make a big play over something provably untrue, as we’re dealing with people that will gladly take that and use it against him. But we are miles past any expectation of being engaged in high-minded debate. They’re going to lie and exaggerate until they manage to wound him politically. Terminator-like, they will not stop. What has happened since the election is chilling. Politeness and high-school debate rules on Trump’s part would hasten defeat, it’s as simple as that.
Trump’s only path is to continue to take actions that generally please his constituency, which already ignores and mocks the mainstream media, while fighting the snakes on a moment-to-moment basis.
Nothing new here. The media has been in the tank with the democrats as long as I can remember. I was in college when Kennedy and Nixon were running for president. The media loved Kennedy and loathed Nixon. Kennedy could do no wrong and Nixon could do no right.
“Trump’s only path is to continue to take actions that generally please his constituency” – Kyndall
As you might have guessed, I completely disagree with this conclusion.
This is what obama did – play to his base – and we all hated it.
trump’s constituency is a segment of the population. He needs to be president for all Americans.
Focusing on these kinds of things rather than the more important topics he needs / wants to accomplish are at best non-productive, but are likely destructive, as they accumulate over time.
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Not everyone will agree with him, and the msm will always be the msm.
So what?
trump has figured out how to go around them, and has a chance to realign WH communications so it is not all through the msm and their filter / biases, letting the public decide for themselves.
AFAIAC, trump is missing that opportunity by going low and petty vs consistent, credible, and strategically on point.
But, as reality is, it is hard to prove that point, even after the fact.
So, we’ll see (maybe).
“I do believe, however, that Trump is (still) consistently and severely underestimated. I expect that that will change over time.” – T
Very much agree with this.
But, perhaps, also in directions you might not necessarily be thinking of.
OM,
“He never will see it coming. Tut tut, why worry be happy.” 11:40
It is not I but you that has advocated a focus upon happiness: “This is supposed to be a happy time” OM @ 12:15pm
“But, perhaps, also in directions you might not necessarily be thinking of.” [Big Maq @ 12:34]
Although I meant my comment in one particular way, I am more than aware of your point. Remember I was a reluctant Trump supporter. I’m on board now as a result of his actions so far, but I will not succumb to the “Trump is the be-all end-all” faction that sees him as a sainted anti-Obama. Anti-Obama he may turn out to be, sainted most definitely not, but I’m okay with that and I expect some hopefully tolerable disappointments as I remember what the alternative could have been.
” “Trump’s only path is to continue to take actions that generally please his constituency” — Kyndall
As you might have guessed, I completely disagree with this conclusion.
This is what obama did — play to his base — and we all hated it.”
I have to admit that I don’t get this comment. It’s 2017 and the population is split to the point in which talking about civil war is premature but not really a joke anymore. Aside from a certain amount of stupid hate-for-the-sake-of-hate garbage, in which lefty-left gits are bashing Trump for positions that are not even ones he has taken, there are two camps with polar-opposite positions on nearly everything, ie rampant unchecked immigration vs upholding existing immigration law; more government regulation vs less government interference, etc. It is not possible to make both sides happy.
Are you proposing that Trump make a full pivot to now suddenly take actions that please the far left? Or are you one of those people who thinks that when half the crowd wants red and half the crowd wants green, brown will do?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my issue with Obama was not in his playing to the base of lefties that elected him – why would I expect otherwise? – but in actively alienating the other half of the country and frankly, disserving the far left citizens that voted him by pursuing policies that left even them worse off while breaking literally everything he touched. I would have disapproved of such actions taken by a Republican. In Obama’s case, not only was he divisive and a dismal failure, he started off with cold, hard ideological beliefs that stand counter to mine, so my disrespect of him as a president is fairly well-rounded and complete.
In the case of Trump, we are still very early, but until we see equivalents of the “bitter clingers” and “you didn’t build that” and “voting is the best revenge” (uttered by an incumbent) and countless displays of always taking the side of certain demographics against the population and principles of the nation at large, he has not been actively divisive.
I would like to hope we can return to an old normal in which the country was less far apart and you could reasonably hope for an elected figure to be liked by, and do things that please, at least large chunks of the population on both sides. For now, for the reality we live in, Trump’s job is to take actions on the things he was voted to do – eg please his constituency – and if those actions result in generally successful outcomes and improvements with few if any of the outrageous fears of the far left coming to pass, perhaps the hallucinatory-caliber hysteria on the part of normal people on the left may begin to fade. At the end of the day maybe a few of them would be pleased too.
If not, we try again in four or eight years.
Geoffrey:
President Trump is inaugurated, most cabinet picks look promising, EPA is being taken to the woodshed, Keystone and Dakota Access pipelines may be moving again and you continue the war, civil war themes. And I can’t see the forest?
President Trump continues to troll the media with “alternative facts” so don’t trust what he says, see what he does.
BigMaq — Tillerson has already stated that the US will block China’s claim to sovereignty over the entire South China Sea, and the Chinese and leftist think tanks are already complaining. It’s pretty clear that Trump intends to oppose China in every way he can, in trade, militarily, and politically. Certainly much more positively than the Wicked Witch of the East would have done.
GeoffreyBritain 1/23 at 3:09 — that’s the picture I saw while watching live, people solid all the way back to the Washington Monument. Has anyone checked the timing of the comparison pictures the MSM is showing?
Paul R Says:
“Neo…I get my news from sites like yours, Powerline, national Review, Drudge…it works great, too, because I know you all are scowering the MSM sites and reporting on the major stories of the day…I’ve grown to trust the reporting my favorite sites do on these issues…makes it easy to stay up to date and saves me the aggravation of reading MSM myself.”
This describes me for a number of years now, except that by the end of this last election process I whittled things down to Drudge, Neo and Ace. Thanks, Neo for being the “go-between”, as the demands of my work and family life would never allow for greater immersion. The last administration operated in rogue violation of our laws–state & federal, with complete complicity and approval of the now “up-in-arms” MSM. I am satisfied if this present one will work within the confines of our existing laws and move to change things in a lawful manner. As for Trump and his foolish “tweets” etc, while anyone with sense wishes he would stop (should have stopped long ago), I much prefer them to the last president’s regular “flipping the bird” on the sly and constant rebukes as though he owned the higher ground.
@Kyndall – you call it “actively alienating the other half of the country”.
Very much the flipside of the same coin I was speaking to, on obama playing to his base, as alienation of the other half is inevitably the result.
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Look we can justify these things six ways to Sunday.
But, it is just the same old attempt at payback the left does, only now “our” side has power.
It is a destructive we vs they cycle.
Hit back with truth and facts, as we must.
However, DON’T exaggerate a PETTY matter, then indignantly hit back at an exaggeration that the “enemy” makes in the opposite direction, making a YUGE deal about how “unfair” or “biased” it was.
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In 2015, I seriously believed that the vast majority of “our” side was different than the left.
This election has given me pause, and the rhetoric just reinforces that.
I’m giving trump a chance to prove himself these next <100 days, but it doesn't mean he gets a pass for sh*tuf like this.
I see some good things, like some of his recently signed orders, but there still is too much of this nonsense that it may well overshadow, if not undermine, any good that does get done, if it continues apace.
Seems few think that is correct or possible.
So be it.
We'll see.
@Richard – the Wicked Witch is out of the picture now (yes, cheers all around!), so references to her don’t matter much (happily so).
Tillerson seems a good / reasonable pick, but he is beholding to trump.
Tillerson made some interesting points wrt China, however, trump made a point of saying he doesn’t agree with everything his cabinet may say in their Congressional reviews.
Could be a sign of a good leader. Could merely be an off the cuff response to the media to explain away inconsistencies. We don’t know, especially after trump’s campaign.
I don’t think we know much about what trump will actually do wrt China, though he has “talked tough” (recall chants of “Lock Her UP!” and the reality after elected).
Part of what I am waiting to see in the first 100 days.
BigMaq — All political appointees are beholding[sic] to the President. They “serve at the pleasure of the President.” He picks them because they are in line with his policies. And Trump made very clear all through the campaign that he regards China as our number one enemy. So why would you think that Tillerson is not articulating Trump’s policy and intended actions?
Maq, not to derail this aging thread on an internal debate, but how is the point being missed that divisive words toward the entirety of a political-enemy group and lack thereof is a critical difference? What was Trump’s “basket of deplorables” or “bitter clingers” moment?
When most of the population has drifted to opposite political poles, with little or no shared views, values or beliefs, it is definitively impossible not to displease at least half of the population with almost any action. Trump’s actions so far have displeased lefties. Hillary’s actions would have displeased us. If someone walked straight down the middle, the resulting halfway action would have displeased both sides for falling short of what either wanted. But is being displeased synonymous with being alienated? To equate implementing policy that one politically disagrees with, with alienation is strangely lefty-like, not too far afield from being outraged that someone, somewhere disapproves of something that one is or one believes in. Alienation implies a personal, emotional context that should be absent for normal people over, say, ending TPP. You may approve or disapprove of the action, but how is it alienating, or a personal affront?
We can argue about the definition of alienation, but the point is I found it a rather bizarre objection to Trump’s actions. As someone who argued bitterly against Trump a few months ago, I’m watching closely to see what his actions say and if I see things I don’t like, I’ll be the first to call him on it. Mine was an anyone-but-Hillary vote, so my wagon is not hitched to Trump. So far, as I said, I see things that should generally please his constituency: he’s so far taking the kinds of actions his pre-election words implied. That is going to matter the most to the people who voted for this guy, despite all his warts and the vitriol of a press that turned against him as soon as he was nominated (as we all predicted at the time). That was all I was saying with that statement.
The last thing I expected was someone to chastise him for doing what he was elected to do. I agree that he needs to watch the 3am tweets, avoid stupid battles and not grandstand on anything that can be easily disproven, so I mostly agree with your original point. But given the excesses we have seen, I promise that the media would have destroyed a kinder, gentler man – it just would’ve taken much less outrageous and imaginative lies and exaggerations to do it. Like it or not, we needed this jerk here and now. Let’s hope he continues to please our constituency with his actions.
Merely a distraction. Trum’s Alt Right strategic propaganda force distracts the media, the media distracts the voters, and Lucifer rules over them all.
I agree that he needs to watch the 3am tweets, avoid stupid battles and not grandstand on anything that can be easily disproven, so I mostly agree with your original point.
Trum doesn’t answer to you or anyone else. He can declare to the world that the black neurosurgeon is a religious nut cuckoo because he doesn’t care what your politics are. If you are against him, then you will be stepped on. Christie is the same way, for a Democrat Progressive.
Certainly much more positively than the Wicked Witch of the East would have done.
Yes, if making Japan go to War with China then leaving them to kill each other is “positive”. Just another way to fry frogs in a pan.
Trump is SINGLEHANDEDLY defeating them.
Delicate sensibilities are being offended by a brilliant man.
Just like Tona thinks Bush singlehandedly failed in Iraq.
The Executive level, nothing is done with a single hand. The peasants and sheep are led to think a single man is responsible, but that is mostly to keep the sheep agitated or in a state of religious euphoria.
Opiate for the masses. So long as they continue to worship their god emperor, they can be led as the judas goat leads, to the slaughter. So long as they believe one man is stupid or incompetent, they will rebel and go elsewhere for their opiates.
In the meantime, we all lose, as it gets to a point where it forces us to pick and accept only one side’s version of “truth” in order to remain within the “team”, and to shut up about what we actually see.
That is why if you trust in humans, you will be in trouble, i.e. damned.
Humans are going to have to pick a side in this celestial war sooner or later. It is not merely a matter of political infighting between Islam, Catholics, Southern Baptists, Demoncrat cultists, and Gaia Warmists.
Most Trump supporters (perhaps all?) distrust and even hate the MSM and discount it, cheering him on in his disregard for it and contempt for it. But the MSM has quite a few tricks up its sleeve, too.
The MSM will collude with Twitter Leftists to ban the most vocal voices. They can’t do that to Trum, but they can to his Alt Right logistics backup.
Conflict and warfare is Lucifer’s bread and butter. He has been doing it longer than Trum’s entire generational clan has been alive. Trum is merely a buttplug in Lucifer’s grand plan.