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Will there be a vote tonight on health care reform? — 26 Comments

  1. Rand Paul is correct about this….

    Take your time, do it right, as you promised during the election campaign.

  2. As Macbeth observed about assasinations, seriously flawed legislation are “best done quickly”…

  3. I doubt there will be a vote. And even if they can pass Ryancare it looks like it will die in the senate.

  4. Richard,

    Upon what basis do you imagine that their promises were sincere?

  5. The die was cast in 1965 with Medicare and Medicaid, enhanced by Bush with Part D. The few conservative holdouts in the house, plus Rand Paul are fighting against long odds and enormous pressure. Because Trump has been maneuvered into supporting it, if it goes down he becomes a lame duck from the beginning. It’s a lose/lose situation.

  6. “….if it goes down he becomes a lame duck from the beginning. It’s a lose/lose situation.”

    Get some perspective. Four to eight years less, what?, 50 days leaves a long long time.

  7. I guess the rush is to have something passed on the anniversary of the initial bill passage.

    You would think that everyone would have gotten together about the rules of both the House and the Senate. Is there a parliamentarian for the House who is different than for the Senate?

    Of course, based on some of the laws that are written, I can understand the possibility of the complexity and contradictions in any type of “rule book”.

  8. the healthcare system in America was the best in the world before ACA. Medical fees were expensive because America encourages innovation and great services and believes Medical workers deserved a good paid for the good jobs they have done for the people. our health system was great in paying the good salaries medical workers deserve while keeping the cost down for most everyday hard working people. If you can’t find a job that provide insurance or earn enough to buy your own than may be you are the problem not society. Insurance is like a car, if you want it, earn it.

  9. Liz. Absolutely. The Senate is an arcane organization stocked with monstrous egos. They barely acknowledge the existence of the House. Part of that was by design; part is the result of a very long stretch in which it is nigh impossible to unseat an incumbent–senile or otherwise.

    I agree with Neo. There is no rush. This is an artificial time frame, much of it is generated by the media for the Democrats. Better to get it right; and give everyone a chance to make their input–unlike the original Obamacare process.

    The Media has to portray everything as a political game–winner vs loser. It is just possible that there are legitimate differences of opinion about an extremely complex issue; and the appropriate process is underway to resolve the differences so as to reach an agreement that meets the needs–if not the expectations–of both sides. Used to be called governing in a democratic environment.

  10. I think the rush was to get this passed and move on to tax reform and then the budget.

    Based on the fact that very little will be done in 2018 since the House members will be focused on getting re-elected, so everything has to get done this year.

    Doesn’t mean it was the wise thing to do. It’s a shame that as neoneocon alluded to they hadn’t arrived at a consensus plan before now. Most of that is due to the fact that the conservatives and GOPe probably will never reach a consensus.

  11. The media is desperate to spin anything as a Trump loss, pffft. Who cares if it takes another couple weeks of horse trading, the Senate is cracked if they think they are gonna get a pass on this. Very soon they will be on the hot seat, and the repubs are gonna get an earful from their voters if they turn this into a circus.

    I know Mcpain and rand paul just won their seats, but just because you have six more years does not mean your state cant make you listen up. They are kidding themselves if they think pressure cant be brought down on their heads too.

  12. The only bill they should push through is that immediately and until further notice all US government employees are to get their health insurance through Obamacare, no exceptions, from the President on down.

    Eat your own dog food for while and tell us how wonderful it is.

  13. Paul in Boston,

    A few members of the gop wanted exactly what you suggest when obamacare was passed. It remains an excellent idea. Too bad it will never happen.

  14. If Tom Cotton left the Senate and moved to Austin, I’d hire him as my family lawyer, and I already have several good ones. Smart people take the advice of good lawyers.

    Tom says that voting down the poor excuse, to pass something real, later, is the very best option. He believes that, given a bit more time, a good reform could be passed. Not a half-bad idea, IMHO.

  15. Ryancare, as parker puts it, is the correct name, and the reason for the tumult.
    We need a serious man for Speaker, not this wee little man with few ideas who cannot marshal his own majority..

  16. Paul in Boston Says:
    March 23rd, 2017 at 6:18 pm
    The only bill they should push through is that immediately and until further notice all US government employees are to get their health insurance through Obamacare, no exceptions, from the President on down.

    Eat your own dog food for while and tell us how wonderful it is.
    * * *
    Originally, IIRC, they were supposed to be enrolled in the exchanges, and the Dems made a big whoop-ti-doo about it. But the staffers whined so much, they then quietly exempted them all from the mandates.

    Back in the old days, when the wage controls of WWII that started this whole mess were removed the advantages for employment-dependent health insurance should have been removed also, and the market forced back onto a level paying field (that was a typo, but I decided to keep it).

    The problem that not enough young well people sign up to subsidize old sick ones should have been covered by “whole health insurance” just like “whole life insurance” — you pay more than you need to when young to guarantee coverage at the now-lower premium when you get old.

  17. It is truly remarkable the Democrats should be proud to defend Obamacare, despised as it is by a large majority of teh electorate.
    As I’ve said before on Ryancare, the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is reasonable, given Senate rules and the tyranny of the minority (who were tyrants also in majority), to ignore the phony CBO “estimates” and push forward through this Step 1. What is at the heart of the matter? Why, Medicaid, which is not insurance at all. The GOP cannot prevent massive media propaganda against themselves, but they should suck it up and try to do something, anything, that is a step in rectification of the obscenity named after Barack Hussein.

  18. there will be a vote…

    After trump said either you vote or its your (hot) potato puts them in a place where they HAVE to vote for it or suffer what happens after the president goes off to work on other things and not let himself get bogged down playing the game the Dems defined over the past 40 years and have normalized when its not all that normal (being bullies you ignore).

    IF they do not vote, they are stuck unless somehow all the insurance companies and such decide to come back and lose money a la chavez/maduro, and and and…

    Their only real play they can actually play that would allow them ANY chance of turnabout would be vote yes, and put it back on the president… they can screw things up more with it in his hand than if he walks, and that is what they will do.

    last night it was interesting because its really serious, as if he wins, the world wide expansion and money will continue and better times… if not, the Dems will have punked the globe!! the market will go back to being moribund and trump will look stuck, and the hope that is feuling this that Obama wished he had in terms of beneficience… will deflate..

    so, in the small question, do they want the hot potato as trump walking says, the music stops, and your stuck with the seats you have. get comfortable…

    in the large question, if you do hold the hot potato, will you ALSO be happy with the world wide negation of expansion after 10 years and accept being the deflators in all of that while playing 1930 socialist/comunist rhetoric because if you dont hurt the people they wont listen to how you will rescue them from what your doing to them!!!!

    they are going to vote..

    they really have no choice, unless pyrrhic is their thing
    which, in many times is, so it cant say with certainty due to that reason. they ARE spiteful enough to cut their own noses off and hurt themselves…

  19. if the president doesn’t get a vote to repeal and replace Obamacare, he will move on to other priorities, Mulvaney said according to a source in the room during the tense talks with GOP members. A senior administration source confirms to NBC News the “very definitive, very clarifying” message from the president and the administration’s intention to move on – should the health care bill fail to move forward – to other matters such as tax reform, trade and border security.

    If the bill does not pass, the president would see it as “people in Congress breaking their promises to their constituents to repeal and replace Obamacare” even with a Republican president in the White House,” the source told NBC News.

  20. The Other Chuck Says:
    March 23rd, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    The die was cast in 1965 with Medicare and Medicaid, enhanced by Bush with Part D.

    Why not go back to the origin, and not blame characters stuck in the middle of the movie? this is a pet peeve of mine that shows why we are where we are (how can you maintain what you dont know), and show how normal laziness is in favor of entertainment vs validity… its just too hard to look up what and why it really is this way, and so, lets jus blame bush, or clinton, or ford, or eisenhower, or or or or or

    Well, how about: Woodrow Wilson: Godfather of Liberalism????

    The New Freedom

    The New Freedom has three meanings. The first two comprise the campaign speeches and promises of Woodrow Wilson in the 1912 presidential campaign calling for limited government, and Wilson’s 1913 book of the same name. The more common meaning comprises the Progressive programs enacted by Wilson as president during his first term (1913-1916), when the Democrats controlled Congress.

    Tariff Reform

    Business Reform:
    established in 1914 through the passage of the Federal Trade Act, which established the Federal Trade Commission to investigate and halt unfair and illegal business practices by issuing “cease and desist” orders.

    Banking Reform: This came in 1913, through the creation of the Federal Reserve System, and in 1916, through the passage of the Federal Farm Loan Act, which set up Farm Loan Banks to support farmers.

    [and started us on the road to serfdom, socialism, and ignoring constitutions equal protection, and made normal the abuse of taxes for things other than bills, like helping people by hurting people, and behavior control, neither of which are technically allowed]

    Health and welfare

    The Sundry Civil Appropriations Act authorized $200,000 for the newly formed Division of Scientific Research for the United States Public Health Service [which shows that tuskeegee syphilis was not funded by the people of the US but the husband and wife communist team that was running sears, funding the highlander school closed for communist subversion, though communists always say its a different self serving reason]

    An anti-narcotics law was passed (1914). [so much for nixon war on drugs]

    Health benefits and disability insurance were introduced for lighthouse keepers (1916). [misappropriation of funds to give to others, socialism, first health care stuff in which the bond between doctors and people and things like home visits which plumbers still do, would later die out]
    [edited for length by n-n]

  21. dont worry, that was met with a third way progressive… New Nationalism (Theodore Roosevelt)… 🙂

    Roosevelt made the case for what he called the New Nationalism in a speech in Osawatomie, Kansas, on September 1, 1910.

    The central issue he argued was government protection of human welfare and property rights, but he also argued that human welfare was more important than property rights.

    He insisted that only a powerful federal government could regulate the economy and guarantee social justice, and that a President can only succeed in making his economic agenda successful if he makes the protection of human welfare his highest priority.

    Roosevelt believed that the concentration in industry was a natural part of the economy. He wanted executive agencies (not the courts) to regulate business

    The socialists and communists from then on had their in, in confusing the public with what would HELP vs what would make them feel better and not requre them to do anything other than ignore the powers that are servants as they pretend to be rulers

    this is building politcal cathedrals, which take many generations to accomplish because those are the ones that accomplish things and if you want to compete you have to compete on the level of dynasties in a world where the common man is not to be married any more!!!!!!!!!

    In the social sphere the platform called for
    A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies
    Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled.

    Limited injunctions in strikes.
    A minimum wage law for women. [becuase the minimum wage law was intended to put blacks out of work as who would pay a white mans wage, same here for women]
    An eight-hour workday.
    A federal securities commission. [same liability trick]
    Farm relief.
    Workers’ compensation for work-related injuries.
    An inheritance tax. [cause its their money and you borrow it while you live]
    A Constitutional amendment to allow a Federal income tax. [which was great, as now the common man would pay and the middle class could be formed, marx would be a hero, and philp dru would rule the day at last… but this was before the horrors of communism would come forwards]

    The political reforms proposed included
    Women’s suffrage. [cause it worked to bring the new nationalism for hitler, before we knew what he would do to fullfill the magyar struggle. but this was when he was man of the year, with stalin, not the monster his ideology required of him… ]
    Direct election of Senators.
    Primary elections for state and federal nominations.

    -=-=-=-=-=-

    “We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.” -Roosvelt

    does that sound like a king or a servant of the people he wishes to control? welcome to what really started it all…

  22. Dave Says:
    March 23rd, 2017 at 4:06 pm
    the healthcare system in America was the best in the world before ACA. Medical fees were expensive because America encourages innovation and great services and believes Medical workers deserved a good paid for the good jobs they have done for the people.

    yes… but that made the wealthy the ginea pigs who would also fund the experiments on themselves… now,shouldnt the poor undermenchen do that? by doing this health care change, the poor get to be tested on, and the wealthy dont.. cool, eh? bet they dont mention that change to how things are given your truthful points!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. I agree with Neo. There is no rush. This is an artificial time frame, much of it is generated by the media for the Democrats. Better to get it right; and give everyone a chance to make their input—unlike the original Obamacare process.

    this is wrong… and of course the people who get paid less for this behavior would settle upon the more cautious thing, and not realize the downside… always the case..

    lets turn to our elders..

    Strike while the iron is hot:
    To act on an opportunity promptly while favorable conditions exist; to avoid waiting.

    once you leave, you find it harder and harder to get them to sit down, you lose MOMENTUM… slow down, slow momentum, and without that, you slam into a wall and falll apart, and not break out of it..

    there is a reason why so many men win, they push it up to the line, the ones that go over, fall by the wayside and we dont see their brokenness… or we think them victims… the ones nearest the line without going over it in reality (not in mind), win… the ones that dont do the balance, becomes betas to zeds

    given that women dont conflict as much as children, as men and boys do, they dont get this stuff naturally as much as boys do… and they are afraid of going OVER The line and being done for… they would rather have second or third place and be safe than first place alone with no help from state, feds, women, etc.

    its the old thing… women confuse agressiveness with assertiveness… when they do, it fails and they point to the guys and say he does… but the nuance is lost as it is learned in conflict and beatings among friends as kids. (now watch it go back to innate after we decided it iwas learned… just to win the argument, then after, go back to programmed, not innate as that favors the debate)

    they also confuse haste and decisiveness, vs prudence, and waffling, etc.

    this is a game of power, not just academics bs

    you want to wait? what do you look like waiting? what happens to other things now that your not decisive, waffling, cant make a choice, always waiting…

    if trump was elected as man of action, i guess a woman of inaction wont work… would it? even thatcher understood this, and THATS Why she succeeded, she got it, and didnt need feminism to have a big broher or federal daddy beat up others for her (while in the back my boyfriends back!!!)

    why dont women make as much money

    cause opportunity passes them while they are being cautious not wanting to lose what they have while trying to get more (thats what men are for!)

    remember, the majority have the same opinion, and they are the ones that are not the winners, but the winners are the ones with different opinions on these things cause they know having the right ones gives the attitude that brings success from failure

    Act Fast, but Not Necessarily First – Harvard business review

    No one understood the challenge of time-pressured decision-making better than military strategist John Boyd, arguably the greatest fighter pilot in American history

    and us guys know it, talk it, use it for slang and i am sure that obama uses it, because if you havent noticed, he gets into their OODA!!!!

    Boyd developed a decision-making framework that our best leaders use today, in military and in business. It is known by the acronym OODA, for observe, orient, decide, and act.

    fighter pilots cant wait, but waiting gives you the advantage the ladies have just asked for.

    If every one else moves too quickly, we can win by going slow.

    right… but not when time is your enemy!!!!!!!!

    As a pilot, Boyd advocated lightweight, maneuverable aircraft. He helped design the F-16 Fighting Falcon, which could be used like a switchblade in a knife fight. A pilot could pump the control stick back and forth, force the adversary to overshoot, and then flick through buttonhook turns to gain a tactical advantage. Boyd could outmaneuver his opponent – not by acting first, but by waiting for his opponent to act first.

    and TRUMP has already done that, guys who know this (and girls of which fewer do), can see it… the dems went first… then the republicans with the repeal go next, now that they are all in and its all known, TRUMP just whipped the stick and will come around and nail them with their own game that hs been played so much its habit not tactical

    Boyd saw these pilot tactics as a metaphor for longer-term strategy.

    this is why i keep saying you guys confuse tactics with strategy ends… you judge wrongly that tatical wins add up like veitnam in to wins.. no, you can win every battle, and lose the war (win tactically, lose strategically)

    but you can also lose tacitcally and win strategically!!!
    and THATS What has you guys knickers in a wrap, he is losing tatically, but that puts him in a fall back judo position.. they were ahead, he wggles, OODA, and now he is behind them. and they eithe rdo what he says or take it all to themselves.

    and he already knows that if they take it all to themselves, he can veto and make it stick!!

  24. OODA: He developed a time-based theory of conflict, derived from Sun Tzu, in which the crucial insights for a fighter come in four stages. First, observe the rapidly changing environment; second, orient yourself based on these observations, process the disorder, and understand when and how your opponent might become confused; third, decide what to do; and finally, act at just the right moment, when your opponent is most vulnerable.

    and THAT is exactly what your seeing today…

    ie…
    Healthcare under obama is the do it first.
    they have their beachead and are digging in

    then comes the reversal in election, the potential of being removed from the dug in positions, and so, what do they do? go for attrition..

    so trump goes to it, and does EXACTLY the ooda loop, in he takes the one action they would not think of which is WALK AWAY as that is what a deal maker does when there is no longer a deal to be made. you lose reasorces kicking a dead horse and the dems and rinos know that. its the same as two deer with horns locked that starve to death.

    Boyd spoke of operating “inside” your adversary’s time cycle: once your opponent moves, gauge his degree of overreaction or underreaction and swoop in accordingly.

    he has played them exaclty to this..
    they thought they were running his clock out
    he just made it that they are running THEIR clock
    they are stting today wondering how he got behind them in their sixes and i will tell you they HAVE to vote, or else.

    In general, we make better decisions when we minimize the time it takes to decide and act – so that we can spend more time observing and orienting.

    why do men as a group make more?

    because the winners disproportiionately win compared to zeros, which cant go lower…

    but also, being decisive is acting early in the right time as with ooda, and being indecisive, is waiting a planck second too late…

    when time spoils it its spoiled…
    pickles dont become cucumbers
    and raisens never return to grapes.
    prunes can never be plumbs again.

    The same applies in business. The faster we can execute a decision, the more time we free up to understand the task, gather information, and analyze the issues. If we require too much time to decide or act, we are forced to finish observing and orienting earlier. And if we act too quickly, we might respond to a problem that changes or even goes away before the deadline.

    https://hbr.org/2012/07/act-fast-not-first

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