May 18th, 2017

The worst media attack on a president ever?

In Trump’s speech yesterday at the Coast Guard Academy, he said many things.

He talked about not giving up:

Over the course of your life, you will find that things are not always fair. You will find that things happen to you that you do not deserve and that are not always warranted. But you have to put your head down and fight, fight, fight. Never, ever, ever give up. Things will work out just fine.

He made it clear that he’s not backing down, that he’s proud of his accomplishments so far as president, and that he’s being treated unfairly by the media. I’ve written quite a bit about that last topic myself. But Trump added this:

Look at the way I’ve been treated lately — (laughter) — especially by the media. No politician in history — and I say this with great surety — has been treated worse or more unfairly.

There’s no question that he’s been very badly treated. He may even be correct that no politician in US history has been treated worse. But I’m not so sure of that, although the attacks on Trump are notable for how early they have reached fever pitch. But Lincoln was attacked by the media with great ferocity. Nixon certainly was, as well. The media considered Reagan a dunce, and a dangerous one at that. And in more recent history, George W. Bush was a constant target (Rathergate, and the “Bush lied” meme, just to take two examples).

But when reminded of the media attack on Bush, I couldn’t help but recall that Trump was fully on board with it. In this 2015 post of mine I wrote about Trump’s own attacks on Bush: he wished that Pelosi had impeached Bush for lying about WMDs, he said that he couldn’t even imagine a worse president than Bush, and he called Bush “evil.” The most committed leftist could not have done better in slavishly following the MSM attack line on Bush.

But now that I’ve gotten that off my chest, I have to say that it doesn’t matter in terms of what’s going on now with President Trump and the press. The press is determined to take him down, and they will do anything and say anything to accomplish it, and in that they have many willing accomplices.

106 Responses to “The worst media attack on a president ever?”

  1. Cornhead Says:

    Trump is correct. Media volume and reach was nothing then when compared to now. Calls for his impeachment and removal from office even before January 20th. Now it is a fever pitch. Crazy and criminal leaks.

    Trump is an outsider and he defeated the ultimate insider. The attacks will never stop. He just has to win on the merits.

  2. Bill Says:

    Cornhead. He’s not correct. He is not the most mistreated president in history.

    He may be the most self-absorbed and narcissistic President in history. Everything, even a commencement speech, goes back to him. Everything. He had the greatest election victory, the largest inaugural crowd, he’s the smartest, no one respects women more than him. The most mistreated. Egad.

    Ive always had trouble respecting people who make everything about them.

    I don’t have much admiration for the press either, although I do try to read a variety of sources. But Trump did make an enemy of them out of the gate. It’s a self defeating move.

    They’ve become the main excuse for every thing Trump does as far as his followers are concerned. The biiiig baaaad press….

  3. Bill Says:

    He stood before young men and women of far higher character than him, who he will send into harms way potentially, and whined about how badly he’s been treated….

  4. Bill Says:

    The attacks will never stop. He just has to win on the merits

    Yes. Doing good things for the country will make a lot of this go away.

    Which is why I wish he could demonstrate the ability to focus. This instinct of his to constantly be causing controversy, for constant coverage, all Trump all the time worked when he was a New York and TV personality. But it’s not 4D chess. It’s like a primate slinging poo. It’s what Trump does and I think it is the main thing he knows how to do. He needs to stop that, now, and get down to the business of being President. He has an opportunity now but the window is really closing quickly.

  5. Big Maq Says:

    Isn’t it a little hard to play the victim, when one has been engaged in equally unfair attacks (e.g. Cruz’s father’s link to the Kennedy assassination)? When one has been feeding misinformation and lies to the media to further his own agenda?

    Someone once said, “Live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    I really am disturbed by the msm hysteria and constantly overblowing every little or big thing.

    But, it sure seems that trump is helping them make their case.
    .

    If there was any promise that he would change, and that it would last, there could be an army of supporters who’d back him up and give him a chance, but trump’s has been shedding trust and credibility for anyone beyond his core supporters.

    trump has not become his promised “so presidential”, and it just doesn’t seem possible that trump can or will change,

  6. Roy Preston Says:

    Trump didn’t have to make an enemy of the press. They were his enemies from day one. Perhaps he isn’t a man of great character, but he was by far the candidate with the greatest character who had a shot at winning the election. If he does nothing else, he saved us from Hilary. And the press will hate him for that forever.

    Plus, the more I watch events unfold, the more I become convinced that Trumps greatest crime in the eyes of the media and the left (but I repeat myself) is that he absolutely refuses to concede the moral high ground to them. They’re convinced that all right-thinking people agree with them, and anyone who doesn’t is racist/sexist/homophobic/etc–and ought to at least have the common decency to voice their opinions quietly and with appropriate shame. (See also, the GOP-e) Trump refuses to do that. He has the temerity to speak and act as if his ideas were as good or even better than theirs, as if he were RIGHT–and that the left cannot endure.

  7. Mike K Says:

    trump’s has been shedding trust and credibility for anyone beyond his core supporters.

    63 million people still support him. I think he has added support since the election.

    I would say that Jefferson (Sally Hemmings) and Jackson (his wife Rachel) were treated as badly or worse and of course Lincoln was vilified until he was assassinated.

  8. Fred Says:

    There were much differences of Media attack during Bush administration and Trump.

    However in Trump’s speech, he said:

    I am heading on a very crucial journey as well. In a few days, I will make my first trip abroad as President. … as my priority, …….. pay for whatever we are doing and all of the good we’re doing for them . I say, get used to it, folks. I’ll ask them to unite for a future of peace and opposition opportunity for our peoples and the peoples of the world.

    First, in Saudi Arabia, where I’ll speak with Muslim leaders and challenge them to fight hatred and extremism, and embrace a peaceful future for their faith. And they’re looking very much forward to hearing what we — as your representative — we have to say. We have to stop radical Islamic terrorism. (Applause.)

    Then in Israel, I’ll reaffirm our unbreakable alliance with the Jewish state. In Rome, I will talk with Pope Francis about the contributions of Christian teachings to the world. Finally, I’ll attend the NATO Summit in Brussels and the G7 in Sicily — to promote security, prosperity and peace all over the world.

    So we all Know Saudis they pay billions, does Israel will pay?

  9. Dave Says:

    I am as diehard a Trump supporter as they come but even now i am starting to get sick of Trump repeatedly complaining about how he is being treated unfairly by the media. Seriously cry me a river, you know they hate you more than anything that ever existed in the history of mankind, can you like be more careful with what you do and what you say? Seriously by now mr president you should know very well that you need to be under the assumption that you are working in complete transparency with everything you do and say is being watched by your enemies, don’t even waste time trying to fix that situation because everything you do will be futile and you simply can’t hide from them. you will be fine if you keep that in mind and don’t do anything unlawful and bad optic.

  10. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Said it before; Trump is a walking Tourette’s case. But running his mouth isn’t causing the trouble. His tweets and their associated outrage come and go.
    He says stupid things in a speech.
    As one commenter noted, Trump does not cede the moral high ground. The left is used to people quailing before accusations of one or another moral crime. Some of us are on to it. Some walk back courageous positions.
    Trump doesn’t, and that makes the left madder than hell. They have lost a powerful tool for manipulation and, by osmosis, it’s spreading to the voters. Perhaps it already had, judging by the election. Now for the squishes….
    Perhaps you have to be a bit nuts not to be manipulated by the left’s usual techniques. Go with it.

  11. Yancey Ward Says:

    The media onslaught is unprecedented- Trump is right about that. Does he bring it on himself? Yes, he does, but that does not give license to what I basically think are unsubstantiated rumors passing as news on a minute by minute basis.

    His first mistake was not firing all of the Obama appointees on the first day, and not putting all the Obama appointees that had burrowed into the civil service into empty rooms with no cleared access to any data at all. It was predictable that the leaks would be a veritable flood. The only consolation is that the leaks themselves are so vacuous and devoid of hard detail.

  12. Yancey Ward Says:

    The media’s goal is obvious- convince the House to impeach him. If a Republican controlled house impeaches him, the Senate will convict and remove him. You see this strategy being played full tilt right now– the media are trying to convince the Republicans that getting rid of Trump in favor of Pence is a good electoral strategy, but it is a con. If Trump is impeached and removed, regardless of whether it is actually warranted or not, the Republicans will lose a minimum of 50 seats in 2018 House elections and will lose the Senate, too.

  13. Dave Says:

    The left believed fake news won Trump the presidency so now they try to fight fire with fire by trying to bring him down with fake news.

  14. Oldflyer Says:

    Wow, Neo you apparently attracted the attention of people we have never before seen here; and surprise– they all have a negative opinion of President Trump.

    There is room to criticize on both sides; but, anyone who says Trump has not been the target of an unprecedented storm of vitriol that started even before inauguration day is either a mushroom, or dishonest.

    Now, he could handle it better; much better. It was refreshing to see him give them tit for tat for a time; the time passed awhile back. The fact that he cannot let it go is seen as brilliance by some remaining die- hards, and very worrisome by many others who still wish him well.

    My wife asks if he Democrats and the Media really want to bring down an elected President in his first year with the chaos and, yes, danger to the country that would entail. I wish I had an answer. The best I can come up with is that they crave power above all else.

    This has got to end. I would like for it to end by President Trump concentrating fully on his agenda, biding his time, and daring his enemies to make a case that doesn’t smell like three day old fish. They have looked pretty foolish for the most part, and he should not let them off the hook by playing their game.

  15. parker Says:

    There is no argument when it comes to the moonbat msm/dnc assault on Trump, of course it is coordinated and willing to do anything to thwart him. The GOPe is afraid that he will hurt them at the ballot box and will be reluctant to advance his agenda. However, Trump’s bigger problem at this point is Trump. As others have noted, he makes himself an easy target. He needs to learn some martial arts strategy on mental/emotional control when faced with multiple attackers. First precept is to become calm and rested in hara.

    Trump needs, but will unlikely to be able to do so, to ignore the barbed tongues of his attackers, ignore their fake news. Ignore them for 60 days and they will be so far out of left field they will be in the last row of the parking lot. He needs to just keep quiet and not respond to their propaganda war. He needs self-discipline that he seems incapable of achieving. My advice, would be to concentrate on relations with the GOPe and the Freedom Caucus to further your key agenda items.

  16. Big Maq Says:

    “63 million people still support him. I think he has added support since the election.” – Mike K

    According to this article, trump’s approval rating was 46% (from election day, where he received that 63M votes)
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/21/donald-trumps-favorability-improves-election-poll/

    Since taking office, trump peaked at 45% in January (inauguration week)
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

    Since then he’s dropped, and most recently lands at 38%
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

    trump is down 5 points with Republicans (what is 5% of 63M?) and 7 points with Independents. Surprisingly, there is still 8% of dems who approve – down from 13%.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

    It is not just one pollster. Several show the same trend.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

    If Ann Coulter is expressing concerns wrt trump, it is rather plain that trump is losing support.
    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-05-03.html

    So, Mike, I’m not sure what you are looking at for your conclusion to be that trump has been adding support, but there are several indicators that say it ain’t so.

  17. TommyJay Says:

    I guess I don’t remember the media environments of the A. Jackson and A. Lincoln presidencies too well. The political media environment that triggers my sense of deja vu is the one surrounding Newt Gingrich’s Speakership.

    A big difference is that the media hysteria and hatred of Gingrich built over a period of years, whereas the TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) blitz was pretty much “instant-on” at the moment of inauguration. Sure, Trump had tons of coverage with much of it negative in the year prior to his inauguration, but that was coverage of actual statements and events. Most of the real hysteria now is over the hypothetical and extrapolated motives and intents.

    In fairness, there are some symmetry and payback aspects to the presidential coverages of Trump vs. Obama. Hardcore conservatives in the media and congress treated Obama like a neo-Marxist and Islamophile from day one. So now the left wants to return the favor. The asymmetry of this comparison is that the media power and money is about 10 or 20 times greater on the left.

    But in the Gingrich case, a dozen or more hate books were written about him. The media seemed to have video tape of him with his cancer stricken wife in her hospital room and informed us of every detail of their divorce. And with his so-called House ethics violations, they threw 84 charges against him, and I believe every one was eventually dismissed or found false, except for one count of lying to the ethics investigation committee. (Sound familiar?)

    The lying finding was based on two sets of documents that he had signed. The first doc. was 100% accurate, but the pointlessly re-submitted doc had errors.

    Then his leadership was challenged which to my recollection was turned decisively against him by a third generation political hack named Susan Molinari. Because she was a member of his inner leadership circle, she was able to seal his fate.

  18. Dave Says:

    like Tony Montana in Scarface Trump is a flawed character, his tenacity and never back down personality won him the election but it is the same character traits that will eventually lead to his downfall. He’s done, I believe, and will very likely be impeached.

  19. Dave Says:

    The only way Trump can save himself is to start a nuclear war with Putin. If Putin is truly colluding with trump they should be collaborating together to stage a fake nuclear crisis, the Democrats will only shut up if the threat of war is imminent.

  20. mollyNH Says:

    He has,support., most folks are truly behind his agenda but he needs someone close who will rein him in& stop with this penny anty Animal House food fight.
    I never thought thought I would bother but think I ‘
    Will check out our line to buy some pro trump, car stickers

    o

  21. ken Says:

    Change his name to Israel if he’s not supposed to defend himself.

  22. Dave Says:

    Being a Trump voter at this point I no longer care if he gets impeached or not. I have lost all my faith in this incompetent pretender. He broke many campaign promises, but the most unforgivable of them all is that he would release his tax return if he becomes the president. Even though releasing one’s tax is not a requirement in the constitution but refusing to do so is still considered by most voters big red flag for most candidates. However many of us were willing to overlook that and gave him a chance anyway without having a look at his tax before the election due to our understanding of how complex our tax laws are especially for someone with such complex business backgrounds and a desire to elect an outsider to shake up the system. We voted for him anyway on the assumption that he will keep faith to his promise that we will release his tax after the election is over. However, not only that he still refuse to his tax after he won, he retract his promise to the voters with the excuse that because he won despite not releasing his tax thus he will not release his tax since its not a concern of his voters. It was an bogus excuse, and still refusing to release his tax at this point after he has already won is the evidence of conviction that he has something to hide. Impeach him, I am done with him, the Quicker the better.

  23. J.J. Says:

    Lincoln was hated from the get go. There was a plot to assassinate him in Baltimore as he traveled to Washington for his inaugural. James Pinkerton helped Lincoln get through Baltimore at night and in disguise. “For the remainder of his presidency, Lincoln’s many critics would hound him for the seemingly cowardly act of sneaking through Baltimore at night, in disguise, sacrificing his honor for his personal safety.”

    The press was vicious and partisan in those days, but it was much more balanced between various viewpoints. 97% of the media, both the management and reporters, is now Democrat.

    Yesterday CNN devoted 13 1/2 hours to the Comey memo and 97% of it was negative. That is now typical. It could get worse, but it’s pretty bad now. That said, I do think Trump needs to do a little less complaining and take more of his own advice – keep his head down and keep working toward the goals of getting rid of Obamacare, lower taxes, less regulation, and taking out ISIS.

  24. Dave Says:

    However, I still stand by my decision to vote for him, i viewed it as a very low risk move and the pending impeachment proved that we made the right decision. We knew very well going into the election that there was a high chance Trump was an incompetent pretender but took the gamble anyway knowing even if our fear came true he would be very easy to be impeached. Imagine if Hillary won the election, being tenaciously protected by the MSM she would be safe from any harm or impeachment even if she would hand America to Putin on a plate. When Trump gets impeached, Pence becomes the president and we still have 3 years left to fix our brand, it was a gamble worth taking.

  25. Kyndyll G Says:

    Dave, really? Tax returns? Do you not get that if there were issues with Trump’s tax returns, he would have problems a lot bigger than concern trolls on Internet forums; he would have the IRS hanging on him? Or is it that you don’t think he’s as rich as he pretends to be?

    Trump no doubt took a look at what happened to Romney the Good, who dutifully released his tax returns only to be brutalized by gutterspawn who don’t get that when virtually all of your income is capital gains, which is taxed at a flat 15%, your tax rate will be somewhere around 15%. The Democrat gimmedat contingent has no idea – they just saw a rich guy who didn’t pay nearly as “much” as he should have.

    Maybe he actually contemplated releasing them – until he saw the outrageous response of the far left when he was elected. Who expected that? Either way, why would he give more ammunition to a violent, irrational lefty media and establishment and its pitchfork carriers?

  26. OldTexan Says:

    Trump is in his office playing Ping Pong when he should be playing Chess.

    When my younger sister and I were in our early teens we had a ping pong table and she would let me beat myself about half the time by just returning the ball until I made a mistake, which I would do when I thought I could whack it hard and make my point.

    Trump needs to start playing Chess and quit trying to return every little silly attack and work on a Check Mate at the end of the game. Loss some pawns and win a game.

  27. Dave Says:

    If his tax is such a trivial matter than show it to us. If there is nothing to hide just put it in the open for everyone to see. If Trump simply refuses to do so just because he doesn’t like to do what he is told then he is badly mistaken, he is in the public sector now, he is no longer in the private sector, he can’t just do anything he wants to, optic matters in the political arena. The whole Russia collusion accusation was given legs because he refuses to show his tax.

  28. Mike K Says:

    Lots of negative comments about Trump which I have noticed here before. The polls quoted about his support are related to the polls that guaranteed a Hillary win.

    “If Trump is impeached and removed, regardless of whether it is actually warranted or not, the Republicans will lose a minimum of 50 seats in 2018 House elections and will lose the Senate, too.”

    Trump will not be impeached. His enemies are hoping they can create enough of an uproar that he will quit and go home to Miami. If that doesn’t work, there will be an assassination attempt.Maybe more than one. The left is insane and the GOPe is not a hell of a lot better

    Robert Spencer was poisoned in Iceland after giving a talk on Islam. The left is getting more violent every week.

  29. Oldflyer Says:

    As I said, the vitriol has blossomed full bloom on Neoneocon.

    Dave, you do not care if he gets impeached? Do you have any idea how that would tear the country apart at this point? Please don’t bring up Clinton now, because he was proven to have lied under oath to the point that his law license was revoked. In other words there was evidence. And of course he had been in office more than a few months.

    JJ, I meant to say that the attacks are the most vicious in my life time. For reference my first Presidential vote was for Eisenhower’s second term. Didn’t get that done; but, it is a stretch to go back to Lincoln. However, since that can has been opened, we should note that Lincoln’s presidency, or the reaction to it, did lead directly to civil war. (And there were real issues involved)

    We have all discussed Trump’s personal issues. The fact remains that his adversaries–well, let’s just call them enemies–have manufactured charges for which they have shown not an iota of evidence. Every time he appears before the Press he is pummeled with these phony charges. Every news cycle some other Democrat Shill is blasting him to their Media accomplices; and coyly mentioning impeachment. I am sure it would be maddening even to a person of more sanguine temperament. But, we know that he must find it within himself to ignore the piss ants and focus on critical agenda.

  30. Dave Says:

    Trump is not doing a good job neutralizing those attacks, it could be as easy as tweeting “Putin is such a ahole i want to kick him in the butt for meddling with our elections.” It is Trump’s continuous praise and open admiration of Putin and refusal to criticize Putin that gave the Russia collusion hoax a leg to stand on. Trump is the kind of person that will intentionally do something when he was specifically told not to, that is his personality, the rebel without a cause type, but it doesn’t work like that in politics.

  31. Mike K Says:

    Trump is the kind of person that will intentionally do something when he was specifically told not to, that is his personality, the rebel without a cause type, but it doesn’t work like that in politics.

    Oh, how does it work ? How many elections have you won ?

    The American voters were tired of professional politicians and elected Trump. The GOPe obstructs him at their peril.

  32. Dave Says:

    Trump is exactly like an elementary school age kid when parents told him not to cuss he cuss nonstop just to annoy the parents, or a girl dating an undesirable just to annoy her parents. Trump was sent to a boarding military school by his dad, and he never got over that, he is the perpetual rebel, he is still wearing that elvis hairdo no matter how many times people specifically tell him how ugly he looks, he just like to annoy people. Trump is done, we were the naive ones who believe DC can still be salvaged.

  33. Oldflyer Says:

    Dave, you have beat it to death. We know about Trump’s “issues”. You do not need to point them out repeatedly on this forum–believe me.

    Some of us would like to focus on his agenda, which we support. We fervently hope that he can keep it on track.

    The Democrats, and the media, desperately want to change the subject. Are you trying to help them?

  34. AesopFan Says:

    Dave Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 5:59 pm
    The only way Trump can save himself is to start a nuclear war with Putin. If Putin is truly colluding with trump they should be collaborating together to stage a fake nuclear crisis, the Democrats will only shut up if the threat of war is imminent.
    * *
    At this stage, I doubt even that.

  35. Dave Says:

    What agenda? Trump has no agenda. i doubt he can Even find nyc on a world map. He said what he said to get himself elected,he said all those words because as a businessman he knew those are the words struggling americans want to hear and there is a market for it。 do u think he cares if our country is overrun by illegals? do u truly believe he gives a darn if all american jobs go to china? he is saying the exact same things he was saying on oparh in the 80s despite the fact the world has vastly changed since. do you truly believe he has ever sit down and ponder the workable path to achieve what he promised suckers like us. Wanna understand trump,watch citizen kane. wake up,this man secretly said he does not want to punish hillary despite that he had made a promise to his supporters that he would lock hillary up?how many more times does he need to betray you to make you realize that he is a phoney.

  36. Frog Says:

    The Dems are winning. With the MSM, they are in fact crippling the USA.
    Stuff needs to get done. The country does not run itself.
    The Russia stuff is all fiction generated by Podesta et al after someone, never provably a Russian, released a ton of his and DNC emails that demonstrated Dem corruption in the highest ranks.
    A distraction turned into a vicious campaign intended to cripple the Administration and keep the economy stuck in the Obama mud. It is working. We have multiple felonious “leakers” in our Federal Civil Service. It is the same, in principle, as the troops in a platoon fragging their new 1st Lt. in Vietnam.
    The only thing worse than the evil Dems are the turncoat GOPers like McCain. He could just shut up, but no, he needs to bray like an ass.

  37. Dave Says:

    Matter of fact is This russia thing is never going to go away unless Trump releases every financial statements there is of his empire and wikileaks releases the source of the dnc leaks. Sorry for all the anti trump rants, i was deeply frustrated Bc we havent won anything since nov 8th and i was tired of all these losings

  38. Dave Says:

    2017 – A New Hope
    2018 – The Empire strikes back 《– We are here
    2019 – Return of the Jedi

    Be patient my young padawans,victory is meaningless if the fight is easy

  39. JuliB Says:

    “despite that he had made a promise to his supporters that he would lock hillary up”

    Dave – He never made any promises. From a Guardian article: “Trump, embracing the spirit of the “lock her up” mob chants at his rallies, threatened: “If I win I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation – there has never been so many lies and so much deception,” he threatened.”

    I don’t consider that a promise but a throw-away statement.

    “diehard a Trump supporter”? Sorry, but you sound like a lib troll saying what you think conservatives would react to. And you’re not even that good at it because your utter contempt for us comes through loud and clear.

    My SO was an enthusiastic Trump supporter, and didn’t perceive it to be a promise. We’re not all morons who believe everything we’re told. He was interacting with the crowd in a typical Trump-blustery fashion.

  40. JuliB Says:

    Back to the point…

    With respect to being poorly treated by the media, my take on it is that he has a point if you consider the impact and non-stop presence of the media and the left in our life. It never stops and you cannot get away from it.

    The media saturates our culture/society like never before – TVs are on everywhere, and the WOT (War on Trump) is just another front in the ongoing Culture War. We’re so connected now with our entertainment and public life. Didn’t they say ‘the personal is political’? We’re certainly in the midst of it.

  41. Eric Says:

    Neo:
    “But now that I’ve gotten that off my chest, I have to say that it doesn’t matter in terms of what’s going on now with President Trump and the press.”

    However, whether President Trump carries forward from President Obama in instituting the revisionist anti-OIF narrative as a US policy parameter is crucial to the fate of American leadership of the free world. The OIF stigma upheld by Trump is the purposeful successor to the Vietnam War stigma and functions as the keystone premise for obsoleting US-led liberal world order.

    But you’re right that Trump’s stance on the Iraq issue “doesn’t matter in terms of what’s going on now with President Trump and the press” because Trump and the media attacking him are kindred revisionists on the Iraq issue.

    Neo:
    “he wished that Pelosi had impeached Bush for lying about WMDs”

    Once more, see the answer to “Did Bush lie his way to war with Iraq” grounded in the controlling law, policy, and precedent and determinative facts of the OIF decision to set the record straight.

    Contrary to the “Bush lied” meme espoused by Trump, in fact, Saddam’s “material breach” (UNSCR 1441) of the Gulf War ceasefire WMD mandates was established by UNSCOM, decided by the UN Security Council, confirmed by UNMOVIC to trigger the decision for OIF, and corroborated post hoc by the Iraq Survey Group.

    Saddam’s categorical breach of the Gulf War ceasefire in Iraq’s “final opportunity to comply” with “full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations” (UNSCR 1441) is in fact confirmed.

    According to the operative law and fact, President Bush’s decision on Iraq plainly was correct – the US was right on Iraq. Trump and his fellow revisionists are demonstrably wrong.

  42. expat Says:

    Here is an important column about Obama’s collusion with the Russians among other things:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447747/trump-russia-intelligence-sharing

    They sharing of info about Britain’s Trident missiles seems a lot more significant that talking about laptop bombs that threaten us all. I wish that every Dem or media person who mentions collusion would be confronted with this info in prime time. It should also be passed around in black communities.

    I don’t like types like Trump. Gold faucets don’t impress me. But I like even less the CNN personalities who pretend to know what they are talking about. And I am driven crazy by the foreign press who take their word as gold. Does anyone think our standing in the world is improved by our ridiculous fights about trans bathrooms? Would any other country in the world talk about paying for a sex-change operation for a treasonous jerk?

    A note from Germany: You may have heard that Merkel’s CDU beat the SPD and Greens in North Rhine Westphalia. The Greens are now trying to figure out how to win back support. So yesterday, Katrin Göring Eckhardt, the co-chair of the Greens, brought up gay marriage as a big issue. When this came up before, Merkel managed to get a compromise that allowed civil unions, and the issue died out. Now another lefty wants to bring it up again. I’m pretty sure that few Germans think the problem of who has to bake wedding cakes is the most pressing problem we face. We are sending this s**t around the world. The Left needs to have it blow up in their faces.

  43. expat Says:

    Eric,
    You have again cited another reason why Trump was certainly not my first choice for President. We just have too many LIVs who don’t know what they are talking about.

  44. Big Maq Says:

    “The polls quoted about his support are related to the polls that guaranteed a Hillary win.” – Mike K

    The old, “polls don’t mean anything, so let’s ignore them” argument.

    You will find that even dem supporters such as Nate Silver did later explain that, considering the high (historic?) negatives of each candidate, the polls were showing a wider range of possible outcomes than the marginal plus for clinton the polls suggested, especially in context of the Comey announcements that final week.

    IIRC, even Neo raised this issue and the possibility of trump squeaking by for a win, before election day.

    Ultimately, it came down to not recognizing the weakness in the clinton team’s ability to bring voters to the booth, as they were turned off by the candidate and the controversy swirling around her.

    Naturally, the msm were not about to profess that possibility. (Which begs the question, what about the “conservative” media? – perhaps they did, but was it discernible from the red team rhetoric? IDK, at this point).
    .

    Noticed that you didn’t refer to anything that actually supports your claim that trump is “adding support”.

    Strange how that works.

    But that is the new world we live in, I guess.

  45. Dave Says:

    If you let the press make up stories to smear you without any measures of retailiation they take it as an admission. If you go after them with libel lawsuits they call it supressing free speech. Many times the offences by the press aint even liable to be sued in a court of law,either they protected themselves with an possibly made up anoymous source,or reporting actual events that had taken place and only lie by misintreperting the meanings of the events. The are near invinciible now

  46. Big Maq Says:

    “Dave – He never made any promises” – HAL

    JuliB, JuliB,…JuliB…

    The point of much of the debate in the comments section in this blog was, “how (un)trustworthy were trump’s statements?”.

    trump said many, many things that didn’t fit together, and contradicted each other – sometimes in the same interview.

    trump was so mutable, he became whatever people wanted to believe he was.

    This is what made his core support solid as concrete.

    What drove the msm / dems up the wall WAS the fact that trump supporters would individually say things they believed about trump that contradicted other supporters’ individual beliefs about trump.

    It begat the nonsense meme “take trump seriously, not literally”.

    A brilliant way to paint over his mutability. Rather Owellian, IMHO.
    .

    But to win, he needed more than his core support, and since he was so hard to nail down exactly what he stood for, they needed something more tangible.

    So, in October (only weeks before election day! Not months before) his campaign issued a “contract”.
    https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf

    It worked for some to “hold their nose”. But, trump pulled in one of the lowest percentages of eligible voters ever. Many would-be GOP voters stayed home. Evidently, they didn’t believe or didn’t trust trump (nor clinton – some went 3rd party, but not many relative to the whole).
    .

    So, I have not doubts your SO didn’t literally believe “Lock her up”, but a great many did.

    No doubt, you and your SO believed/believe several other things that one could argue trump contradicted on several occasions.
    .

    In the meantime, some of his supporters are seeing trump draw back or renege on even his written commitments.

    It is not helpful that he boasted of his own superior “competency” that he claimed he’d hit the floor running on day one, and would meet those commitments in 100 days….
    .

    “not only that he still refuse to his tax after he won, he retract his promise to the voters with the excuse that because he won despite not releasing his tax thus he will not release his tax since its not a concern of his voters. It was an bogus excuse, and still refusing to release his tax at this point after he has already won is the evidence of conviction that he has something to hide” – Dave

    …So, when folks point to his failure to produce his tax returns, it is largely symbolic at this point of one of the many things he many times “promised” to do prior to the election, but failed (deliberately?) to follow up on once elected.

    And, it is with a disingenuous circular argument/excuse to boot. It leaves one to interpret that trump thought / thinks his voters are extremely gullible (much, like that something about shooting someone on 5th Ave and still have supporters intact).

  47. blert Says:

    Dave is a concern troll.

    Period.

  48. Dave Says:

    After so devotedly invested in the last election and his Campaign of course I am still rooting for him to succeed but intellectually I just can’t make myself to believe that as his incompetency has been exposed completely in his firing of Comey. Nothing in this fiasco exhibited that he has the mental capability to come out of this fight with the MSM and democrats as the victor, no way. Being a liar is not the deal breaker, as we all know as common sense that lying is essential to get anything done in the arena of politics, but being a lousy liar is. Trump is not Obama, he doesn’t have the luxury of being protected by the MSM arm like Obama did, still failing to understand that and not change his strategy accordingly shows he lacks the competent to defeat MSM and deep state. If even a pro like Nixon failed to do so what odds does an ammeter like Trump has?

  49. Dave Says:

    When you are being investigated of colluding with Russia the absolute last thing you want to do is firing the person who is investigating you, either Trump is so incompetent that he didn’t realize that, he had bad advisors giving him bad advises, or he had turncoat advisors giving him bad advises intentionally to sabotage his presidency.

  50. DNW Says:

    “Ive always had trouble respecting people who make everything about them.”

    The irony … the killing, sidesplittingly hilarious … irony.

  51. Julia Says:

    Big Maq –

    I usually skip posting to you, but don’t take 1/2 of my quote OUT OF CONTEXT and reply to it. I was NOT making a blanket statement about promises. I was being VERY specific, or else I would have made an explicit statement about his trustworthiness. (Which I wouldn’t do because I don’t think Trump is any example of integrity. But that has no bearing on my point.)

    I know several Trump voters and some are even Trump supporters. Not a single person believed it. You can extrapolate all you want based on everything else you posted, but he didn’t make a *promise* to lock her up.

    I get it, you hate Trump. But stop straw-manning me. Or perhaps this falls under ‘straw-man-splaining’.

  52. arfldgr Says:

    no other president has had 98% bad press and 13 hours coverage in one day…

    you go to front line:
    An analysis of news coverage from the 2016 primary races found that mainstream media outlets engaged in “journalistic bias” that led to over-coverage of the Donald Trump campaign and under-coverage of Democratic candidates, in particular Sen. Bernie Sanders.

    The report, from Harvard Kennedy School’s Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy, underscores the role that the press can play in anointing — or sinking — a candidate, as well as keeping voters under-informed by focusing only on the horse race instead of the candidates or relevant issues.

    ============

    however you go t the man who has made a lifetime career of such things.. POYTNER

    http://www.poynter.org/2016/is-media-bias-really-rampant-ask-the-man-who-studies-it-for-a-living/435840/

    In 2000, for example, George Bush’s campaign was twice as likely as Al Gore’s to get positive press coverage in the culminating weeks of the campaign

    In 2012, a study by Daniel Quackenbush at Elon University found that there was a “a considerable pro-conservative bias amidst the media’s collective coverage.” In the fall of 1988, press coverage of Michael Dukakis was deeply criticized.

    D’Alessio studies media bias in presidential elections that have taken place since 1948, looking at questions like: Is there systematic partisan media bias in presidential campaigns?

    The conclusion of an analysis of studies of media bias in campaigns from 1948 through 1997: “Neither the overall analysis, nor any of the differences between proportions of coverage, statement, or gatekeeping bias favoring Democrats or Republicans, was statistically significant.”

    then go here (same source):
    Coverage of President Trump dominates the media, and most of it’s negative
    https://www.poynter.org/2017/coverage-of-president-trump-dominates-the-media-and-most-of-its-negative/460324/

    the extent that a narrow slice sets influential news agendas, the report is useful as it scrutinizes coverage of Trump’s first 100 days and finds he was “the topic of 41 percent of all news stories — three times the amount of coverage received by previous presidents.”

    “Trump has received unsparing coverage for most weeks of his presidency, without a single major topic where Trump’s coverage, on balance, was more positive than negative, setting a new standard for unfavorable press coverage of a president,” reads the report by Thomas Patterson, a respected government and press analyst.

    “Fox was the only news outlet in the study that came close to giving Trump positive coverage overall, however, there was variation in the tone of Fox’s coverage depending on the topic.”

  53. arfldgr Says:

    And there’s this interesting empirical tidbit: “Of the past four presidents, only Barack Obama received favorable coverage during his first 100 days, after which the press reverted to form.”

    Trump coverage has accelerated what had been a norm, it appears, setting what the report deems “a new standard for negativity.” And that’s despite the disproportionate amount of the time that Trump himself is quoted, which is seemingly unusual in a world in which politicians tend to bitch that their low esteem partly reflects the press not airing or giving space to their own declarations.

    Reliance on Trump’s own comments aside, “Of news reports with a clear tone, negative reports outpaced positive ones by 80 percent to 20 percent. Trump’s coverage was unsparing. In no week did the coverage drop below 70 percent negative and it reached 90 percent negative at its peak.”

  54. DNW Says:

    Neo says,

    “There’s no question that he’s been very badly treated. He may even be correct that no politician in US history has been treated worse. But I’m not so sure of that, although the attacks on Trump are notable for how early they have reached fever pitch. But Lincoln was attacked by the media with great ferocity.”

    First, let me stipulate that you are merely surveying the field for prominent bumps and swales and not evaluating context.

    But I still think that it is worth pointing out – at the risk of starting another of those tedious Civil War arguments – that the attacks on Lincoln in the [Northern] press and the public criticism he received after the Southern secession, were generated by radically unlike activities to those of Trump on the part of Lincoln.

    And I do acknowledge that you have repeatedly and emphatically announced as regards Trump in particular, that much of the uproar is either hysterical or agenda motivated.

    But when it comes to ‘legitimate uproar’, I cannot think of any president other than perhaps FDR, who even approached the kind of, well – dictatorial exercise of power – which Lincoln wielded with his General Orders. (Obama took a more subversive approach) The establishment of martial law in areas not actually under rebellion, the suppression of the press, the arrest of private citizens for speech and opinions, the threatened arrest of a Supreme Court justice and the quashing of the operation of the civilian courts are all crises of law and the social and moral compact.

    Say what you will about expediency, or the personal virtues of the man and his fundamental human decency and goodwill, but Lincoln managed to do a great deal more than Trump to generate existentially motivated controversy on the part of his opponents.

    Or, has he …

    Taking that last sentence alone, and reconsidering the question under the aspect of what progressives perceive as a now threatened end to a progressive no-limits domination and irreversible political control and direction of every aspect of our lives … well, then, maybe Trump has in fact done something by just being there and not being them.

  55. arfldgr Says:

    Bill Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 3:09 pm

    Cornhead. He’s not correct. He is not the most mistreated president in history.

    Bill, not only IS he, but its stepped up post 100 days
    yesterday research pointed out over 90% bad coverage

    NO PRESIDENT had ever been treated that way yet.

    in fact, during that time, here i put up the information and the break down. glad you and others read that stuff…

    oh, and its even more interesting as the pillars of the elite world make reverse claims as they know what they say, is believed MORE… even if its not right

    WAPO
    As first 100 days in office approaches, media coverage of Trump is 89% negative: Study
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/19/donald-trump-media-coverage-is-89-percent-negative/

    READ THIS AND SEE TRUMP IS QUOTING WAPO

    As President Trump approaches the end of his first 100 days in office, he has received by far the most hostile press treatment of any incoming American president, with the broadcast networks punishing him with coverage that has been 89 percent negative,” wrote Rich Noyes and Mike Ciandella, both analysts for Newsbusters.org, a conservative press watchdog.

    In a new study, the pair pored over evening news coverage on ABC, CBS and NBC from Jan. 20 through April 9 — over 1,000 stories focused on Mr. Trump and his new administration. That amounted to 1,900 minutes of total airtime. Only 186 minutes were positive in content or tone.

    “The networks largely ignored important national priorities such as jobs and the fight against ISIS, in favor of a news agenda that has been dominated by anti-Trump controversies and which closely matches what would be expected from an opposition party,” the researchers said.

    Positive developments had no charm for the broadcasters. The study found that Mr. Trump’s push to invigorate the economy and bring back American jobs received a mere 18 minutes of coverage, and his efforts to facilitate international trade deals resulted in less than 10 minutes of airtime.

    So now you know who or what he reads and what they leave out when he says it!!

    got that? when he says it, the news does not tell you it was first reported and sadi by those two guys in WAPO… they leave it out to generate a negative bias in your head cause you didnt bother to read it and memorize it!! [which really is not practical. even my memory cant do that!]

    The fact trump is quoting changes everything than if he was claiming on his own, boo hoo, they dont like me…

  56. DNW Says:

    ” JuliB Says:
    May 19th, 2017 at 1:19 am

    With respect to being poorly treated by the media, my take on it is that he has a point if you consider the impact and non-stop presence of the media and the left in our life. It never stops and you cannot get away from it.

    The media saturates our culture/society like never before – TVs are on everywhere, and the WOT (War on Trump) is just another front in the ongoing Culture War. We’re so connected now with our entertainment and public life. Didn’t they say ‘the personal is political’? We’re certainly in the midst of it.”

    Well, hang me out to dry.

    Another instance where I should have read the thread through before commenting.

    I could have saved myself the trouble of developing an elaborate comment in which I came to an unexpected conclusion in which I surprised myself at the very end.

    This person just stated it outright, without the ruminating and meandering, and much earlier.

  57. arfldgr Says:

    Bill Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 3:09 pm
    He may be the most self-absorbed and narcissistic President in history.

    you lose on that assertion too..

    Teddy Roosvelt takes the prize on that and by the admission of his OWN CHILDREN!

    My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening. Alice Roosevelt Longworth

    Even trumps family is nicer than that…

    and how would you know with a confirmed manipulation bias of over 90% negative..

    are you right, or are you one of those people who such things work really well on? who advertisers would like cause the tricks work easier…

    dont answer, you will only say your not
    [funny, i love it when the creative and smart think they cant be hypnotized, when those things make it a lot easier!!!!!!!!!]

    your being manipulated and whats happening here is like in the old soviet union… some people see through it easy, and dont get tricked… others are people who could swallow whales either in reality or socially (regardless of what they think internally)

    this is how you survive. and why we as people do it.

    if it didnt work, they wouldnt do it
    and everyone denies it works!!! [but i worked on madison for a while, and wall street and in media, and and and.. ]

    advertising and art directorship taught me how easy it is to play with your head… even more so when you dont believ eit, and feel your imine to it.

    The Slow-Motion Assassination of President Trump

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/160770453201/the-slow-motion-assassination-of-president-trump

    I saw this quote on CNN.com today: “The episode is the latest woe for Trump, whose administration is engulfed in a series of scandals linked to Russia.”

    A “series of scandals linked to Russia”? Would it be equally accurate to characterize it as a series of stories manufactured by the media, none of which have been confirmed to be a big deal?

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-
    you see, artists, photogrpahers, magicians and lots of others (but not psychologists and such), all have an interest in playing with your head in some way, most for entertainmen (The dark side is grifting, scamming, etc). [and for me, its insight]

    if you watch someone take apart this and dont stand there denying it works (despite billions a year speant on it for no reason, right?)… you might learn to see what you dont see that woudl clue you in that others see that get them to choose otherwise
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Today’s headline news is that an alleged Comey memo indicates President Trump tried to obstruct justice in the Flynn investigation by saying to Comey in a private meeting, “I hope you can let this go.”

    Key word = hope

    Do you see Trump asking Comey to end the Flynn investigation in the quote “I hope you can let this go”?

    All I see in that sentence is “duh.” Obviously Trump HOPED his friend and advisor Flynn would be okay. Did it need to be said? Was there some confusion on this point with Comey? Did Comey enter the meeting thinking maybe President Trump wanted to see his friend and advisor Flynn get eaten by the system?

    I’m no lawyer, but I can’t see any judge or jury in the United States prosecuting someone for expressing a hope that the future turns out well for his friend.

    Watch the headlines and pundits today transmogrify “hope” into “asked to end the Flynn investigation.”

    That isn’t news.

    That is an assassination.

    i catch this all the time
    and i work in research
    and i can tell you that you can show people, and have a big stack of newspapers coded to show them, and they wont believe if they think they are not susceptible to it.

    however, the one thing that would show they arent, would be their cooperation and showing more similar items, not refusing to agres so that impasse becomes some form of winning by sitting down!!!!!!!!!!

    more at the link, and more post by him, outrageous good stuff… (not as good when i spoke with david copperfield and work on madison, but he is a busy guy! and im not)

  58. Oldflyer Says:

    Dave, you are sounding extremely foolish; much like those in the Democrat Party and the Media who are suffering from TDS. Or maybe there is an explanation for that.

    If you really think Trump doesn’t have an agenda, and that he hasn’t actually made progress toward implementing it, then you have have been a dark and pungent place. If you are just spouting that nonsense, then shame on you.

    Despite the self induced problems that compound the despicable actions of his adversaries, Trump is not doing badly on the issues at this point–which is all of four months into his tenure.

  59. arfldgr Says:

    Bill Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 3:09 pm
    But Trump did make an enemy of them out of the gate. It’s a self defeating move.

    no he didnt, he realizedd that eating their crap, kissing their arse, eating brownies, and all that would mean NOTHING…

    good thing you think like the guy that tried not to make a enemy of hitler by appeasing him

    since when did appeasing the press EVER work when your not a communist/keftist/genderist/feminist/fabran.progressive marxist? [in recent decades]

  60. arfldgr Says:

    Bill Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 3:17 pm
    He stood before young men and women of far higher character than him, who he will send into harms way potentially, and whined about how badly he’s been treated…

    and then acknowleged they, the military had been treated bad… and… ???

    sorry, my son is an officer in the Navy..
    seems to me real military has a different opinion than the people back home who pretend they know things.
    and if your military, maybe your more like kerry than puller..

    [and i wont tell ypu if my son was on that ship. besides. i have met and taken pivctures of several presidents and their family… you can see them online as neo wont put any up as proof… ]

    who he will send into harms way potentially, and whined about how badly he’s been treated…

    Really? [from CNN who hates him]

    his calls for a multi-billion dollar military investment, promising a “great rebuilding of our military might.”

    “Hopefully it’s power we don’t have to use. But if we do, they’re in big trouble,” Trump said, speaking from the hangar bay of the newly built USS Gerald R. Ford, where a poster reading “100,000 tons of diplomacy” hangs on the wall.

    “American ships will sail the seas. American planes will soar the skies. American workers will build our fleets,” Trump said to applause.

    AND from military news…

    “To keep America safe, we must provide the men and women of the United States military with the tools they need to prevent war,” he said. “If they must, they have to fight and they only have to win.

    “I am sending Congress a budget that rebuilds the military, eliminates the defense sequester and calls for one of the largest increases in national defense spending in American history.”

    your like my asshole marxist friend (who is friends with my best friend who is not marxist asshole)…

    he speaks with authority like you thinking no one would dare look up or argue with me causethey are as dumb as i am, and i can pretend otherwise by just making assertions as to reading, and such, and piss into the minds of others with bs…

    nice work..
    next time, can we have a bit of empirical reference to your points that dont match when you DO look them up?

  61. Big Maq Says:

    “but don’t take 1/2 of my quote OUT OF CONTEXT and reply to it. I was NOT making a blanket statement about promises. I was being VERY specific” – JuliB

    About “Lock Her Up”, it is part and parcel of the many, many things trump said.

    trump’s mutability left it open to multiple interpretations.

    THAT IS THE CONTEXT that your statement lives within.
    .

    Perhaps I could have cut the explanation down to, just this part, which I did say…

    So, I have not doubts your SO didn’t literally believe “Lock her up”, but a great many did.

    No doubt, you and your SO believed/believe several other things that one could argue trump contradicted on several occasions.

    Come on now…

    You want to take that one comment from Dave and isolate that as if there is no other context, when, in fact, there is a YUGE context around who believes what of whatever it was that trump said during the campaign.
    .

    “I know several Trump voters and some are even Trump supporters.”

    Your anecdotal evidence does NOT discount the fact that there are probably numerous “Daves” out there who see it very differently.
    .

    I’m getting the sense that for every “Dave” out there in the real world, there are several more who may have “held their nose” who are now harboring serious doubts about what they thought would come to be with trump – each with their own perception.

    The only evidence I have to offer is from comments like that of hard core trump supporter Ann Coulter.

    “if he doesn’t keep his promises I’m out. This is why we voted for him. …

    I hate to say it, but I agree with every line in my friend Frank Bruni’s op-ed in The New York Times today”
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/14/ann-coulter-is-worried-the-trump-haters-were-right/

    And, there IS a turn in the recent comments on this blog by some commenters.

    Have you not noticed?

  62. arfldgr Says:

    Big Maq Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 3:24 pm

    Isn’t it a little hard to play the victim, when one has been engaged in equally unfair attacks (e.g. Cruz’s father’s link to the Kennedy assassination)?

    isnt it unfair to link trump to the assasination when he only linked cruz father to the pamplet hnding out photo of him handing out pamplets.. and NOT the assasination

    that was the news changing it and pushing it out to a conclusino that was never said.

    if there was not an assasination, what would you think of him giving out pamplets supporting the cuban communists?

    oh, i see.. cause someone else on the corner that was with him went off and did a nut job even, the other man standing on the corner gets a free pass for communist propaganda and such, cause we know he wasnt part of the event that we know not much about!!!

    and by not being carefl and playing the ganme gossip the narrative gets changed from being limited to the actual facts, to the stretced out fake facts to assasinate character

    and youy help that process every time you dont stop it at your brain and repeat it…

    you guys are so apt at focusing on the man who makes the big lie and repeats it.. but the freaking quote to any smart person understands that its peole like you that make the big lie big by repeating the more common twisted fact not the actual one

    like claiming hitler set the reichstag fire when it was the communists that did that… the germans pegged the communists, it was the communists fake trial we remember…

    just as the nazi pope never really existed, the point was from a leftist liberal german play not reality.

    similar with the aids was made in USA as a biological weapon against… pick one gays, blacks, lesbians, poor, drug users… or pick all..

    but that was a disnformation campaign russia admitted to to cover up their violation of the biological warfare treaty by makign weaponized anthrax that escaped… and later appeared in the USA killing people (it has finger prints in it of a certain kind).

    you would help society more if you didnt repeat things that were not really accurate but almost accurate.

  63. Bill Says:

    art,

    All I said is that Trump has a crappy character.

    Because he does.

    That’s all I’m asserting.

    He’s a liar
    He’s a con man
    He’s an serial adulterer
    He’s a narcissist
    He’s got really thin skin
    He’s got a major revenge motive

    That’s really all I’m saying, Refute that.

    Or call me a “marxist” if you must. That’s the go-to for every Trump supporter on this site.

  64. arfldgr Says:

    Roy Preston youi have it right and are one of those people who SEE games… its obvious… even if you were no for trump and hated him, i can tell you still see a game in the press… and THATS The point of this, and the whole of pravda and other things like willi… and even dilbert blog… study how it works before commenting its not working, never worked, doesnt work on me, etc.

    heck, i know it works on me.. i know i cant stop all of it
    but i CAN make a correctional bias just as researchers do and others do, but that requires self awareness down to a functional level… a level in which one can actually know that just cause they know, they are not immune… which is unlike the others… who claim immunity and so dont ahve to develop anything!!!

    this is my last post.
    past my limit
    but i havent really posted for weeks
    so forgive.

  65. arfldgr Says:

    i have to break promise to answer one thing

    My wife asks if he Democrats and the Media really want to bring down an elected President in his first year with the chaos and, yes, danger to the country that would entail. I wish I had an answer. The best I can come up with is that they crave power above all else.

    yes, they do
    they always do
    its the point of the fabian glass
    with chaos and horror you get permission to do anything!!! without the war, could the austrian copy the camps of the russians? could the russians starve 8 million? do the people that lie in the press about things like that get punished? anyone in the press ever get punished for the horrors they help cause? never its a totally safe position, even if your vilified, your a good read now.

    they WANT war, war solved all their problems short term!!!

    1) fixes the financial bs they caused spending 22 million to end poverty and would have relieved more of it by NOT stealkng and spending it (Which is fine for the negative wealthy who would enslave)

    2) you can do whatver you want, ration, move people around, and the EO and such been existing for decades nearly 100 years… so how do you challenge THAT?

    3) with number 2 everything else falls as you get to move people around, even negate the constitution on a “reason”, and more

    and if worse comes to worse, you can give up to the enemy you love and merge.. which has been the rumors for a very long time with russia taking the east, and china taking the west and south america.

    this war has many flashpoints started.
    like an arseonist who sets lots of fires!!!!

    middle east, jerusalem, serbian area, kazaks, kurds, sankaku islands, the paracels, north korea, north korea manufactured islands, fly overs by nuclear bombers who may be carying nukes the day they DONT back down and we are acclimated to them testing us and testing us, and forget the one time its not

    http://www.modjourn.org/render.php?view=mjp_object&id=mjp.2005.00.082

    The founding of the Fabian Society in 1884 was to a large extent a response to the burgeoning of socialism in 19th century Europe. It evolved out of an entity called The Fellowship of the New Life, founded in 1883, whose philosophy was the inculcation of ideas that would enhance individual character and, eventually, society.

    [i always wish that they would say stuff like that like this: their public message was… and not write as if the public message for consumption was the only message. in this way we are willing to figh fascism with willi munsenberg, but never ask for who do we fight… stalin… ]

    They were joined by the Quaker Frank Podmore the following year, and it was he who suggested calling the group the “Fabian” society. He had in mind the tactics of the Roman General Fabius Cunctator (the delayer) who, in his wars with Hannibal, advocated a withering conflict of attrition rather than any full-frontal attack. A particularly English phenomenon—indeed, a particularly metropolitan and middle-class one, based as it was in and around London and run by a coterie of intellectuals—the Fabians propagated the idea that socialism and a socialist state were best achieved by “gradualist” methods. This was in contradistinction to the more revolutionary and confrontational methods adopted by traditional Marxism in continental Europe and the strategies favored by the English strain of these revolutionary movements embodied in H. M. Hyndman’s Social Democratic Federation.

    The Fabians preferred the method of “permeation,” or what Margaret (Postgate) Cole termed the “honeycomb” effect. Instead of undetaking direct confrontational action, for example, by aligning themselves with working-class trade unionism or other militant socialists, the Fabians sought to change the system from within, and would achieve this by a process of infiltration. Through their great intellectual weight, they would “persuade” members of government (whatever the Party), civil servants, and other people in power that ameliorating the plight of the less fortunate in society was a necessary and just cause. They achieved a measurable success at this because they possessed among their small number some of the best minds and celebrities of the time. These included Beatrice (Potter) Webb, Sidney Webb, Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells, G. D. H. Cole, Edith Nesbit, Rupert Brooke, Arnold Bennett, Emmeline Pankhurst, Eleanor Marx, and others. Besides meeting their goals through friendly persuasion, the Society also disseminated their gradualist philosophy though voluminous publications, one of the first volumes being Fabian Essays (1887) by Webb, Shaw, and others. This volume was criticized severely by the socialist William Morris, who particularly took issue with the Fabian notion of permeation, which he deemed to be “impractical.” Such criticism notwithstanding, the Fabians were able to effect considerable social change, which is impressive given their small membership (only about sixty members two years after their foundation and thereafter never great in number) and given the fact that they never aligned themselves with any one Party or center of power. Indeed, it may not be too much of an exaggeration to say that the Fabians were in a very significant way responsible for many of the social reforms that culminated in the post-war British welfare state.

    anything that works
    and these high and noble people were USED
    they have forgotten willi and the users of later

    behind this noble thing was some very unnoble people who really wanted a dicatatorship and the power your referring to.

    they use the idealists
    the idealists change others
    when the change is complete
    they end the idealists
    and enslave the others.

    or as was said

    since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not depends on the individual, man’s survival requires that those who think be free of the interference of those who don’t. Since men are neither omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to cooperate or to pursue their own independent course, each according to his own rational judgment. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man’s mind.

    A rational mind does not work under compulsion; it does not subordinate its grasp of reality to anyone’s orders, directives, or controls; it does not sacrifice its knowledge, its view of the truth, to anyone’s opinions, threats, wishes, plans, or “welfare.” Such a mind may be hampered by others, it may be silenced, proscribed, imprisoned, or destroyed; it cannot be forced; a gun is not an argument. (An example and symbol of this attitude is Galileo.)

    It is from the work and the inviolate integrity of such minds—from the intransigent innovators—that all of mankind’s knowledge and achievements have come.

  66. Dave Says:

    accusation by association is not an exclusive Trump thing you know, remember how they linked Trump to KKK just because Trump’s dad was in a KKK rally in the 1930s or something in that nature. Remember how they demanded Trump to drop out of the race just because his campaign manager pushed Michelle fields to the ground? Everyone makes up stuff about their opponents to gain an upper hand but somehow only Trump is guilty of doing so. No one defends Trump’s characters we just call out the hypocrisy of the condemnation, why does Trump get to be hold in a higher regard, but the same actions get a pass when Cruz, Rubio, Obama, or Hillary did it.

  67. Kyndyll G Says:

    Yes, worst media attack on a president, in context of modern media. No president of our times, including Bush, was treated in any way like what we are seeing here, particularly.

    Almost from the day after the election, commercial media was hostile to Trump, and at this point, the news cycle has begun to resemble this:

    Somber Announcer: Anonymous White House sources today report that last March, President Trump was seen putting pants on one leg at a time. Now, over to our Washington bureau for more on this latest scandal to rock the beleaguered new president.

    Talking heads hash and rehash the new scandal, and how it may be related to last week’s report that Trump wears socks, and of course, the always-present question of Russians, who are also known to wear socks and pants. It then makes the rounds through social media, where lefties share their outrage by posturing and countless new memes. Eventually, Trump sends a snarky tweet.

    Tomorrow – or maybe even later today – it all begins again.

    I have never seen anything like it.

  68. Big Maq Says:

    “isnt it unfair to link trump to the assasination when he only linked cruz father to the pamplet hnding out photo of him handing out pamplets.. and NOT the assasination

    that was the news changing it and pushing it out to a conclusino that was never said.” – art

    Yep. NOBODY thought there was any link when trump made his statement.

    trump was just pointing out something he curiously and randomly thought, with no intent on making that link.

    It is all the msm’s fault that anyone could possibly make that kind of link.

    Unicorns and candy canes all the way.

  69. Big Maq Says:

    “Or call me a “marxist” if you must. That’s the go-to for every Trump supporter on this site.” – Bill

    Or, they will say that they ignore you, or that you really want the dems to rule, or other ad hominem mockery, as if what you have to say has no legitimacy.

    Just keep at it Bill.

    There are readers out there who may not be commenting here, but are taking in your arguments.

  70. arfldgr Says:

    Big Maq

    the whole freaking thread is about how the news is lying, assasinating him, and all that…

    and your go to to debate is the news?

    it buggers the mind that you people do that. and i have said it dozens of times and it doesnt register.

    when the milk is sour you dont drink more to get good milk!!!!!!!!!!!

    its like you guys have only one well to put your cups in
    and whether or not you want clean water or get dirty water you go back to the same filthy well to argue lie against lie and all that.

    you really think that 63 million out of a population of 300 million, and tons and tons of foreign manulation from open borders and others people doing things and all that.

    why cant we just accept that we cant know cause the contamination of the data cant be removed and the bias of the left is everywhere, because these businesses hire from college and college is even deeper off the deep end than the press!!!!!!!!

    ePaul hikes student fees to fund scholarships for illegals

    UCLA paying students to fight ‘whiteness,’ ‘patriarchy’

    ND prez rejects NCAA marching orders on diversity initiatives

    Prof to white peers: ‘your very presence’ is ‘the problem’

    A University of Hawaii professor argues that universities should “stop hiring white cis men” until “the problem goes away.”

    Mathematics professor Piper Harron never gets around to specifying which “problem” would be solved by culling cis white males from academia, but insists that “real solutions require women of color and trans women.”

  71. Big Maq Says:

    Not to feed the dragon, but Harvard, no less, has concluded that there is anti-trump bias in the msm.

    Who knew?

    If this is to be believed – I’m not vouching for the site…
    https://heatst.com/culture-wars/harvard-study-reveals-huge-extent-of-anti-trump-media-bias/

  72. Big Maq Says:

    Posted the above before art posted how his mind is buggered.

    Oh well, now we know.
    /jk /sarc

  73. Big Maq Says:

    Meant – Before I saw that art posted…

  74. Big Maq Says:

    Seeing the response, seems I should have said…

    Unicorns, candy canes, and conspiracies, all the way down.

  75. Dave Says:

    conservatives do that to themselves, they disowned the altright movement and threw them under the bus while alt-right was the only subset group of conservatives to have any success in fighting back the progressives’ propaganda.

  76. Dave Says:

    Why are the liberals so good at getting their messages across but we are not? are their messages inherently easier to digest by the mass or is there something else?

  77. neo-neocon Says:

    Dave:

    Yes, their messages are inherently easier to digest, much easier. Plus, the left deeply believes that the end justifies the means. Only some on the right live by that code. “Ends justify means” makes delivering a message a GREAT deal easier, if that’s what you’re after.

  78. OldTexan Says:

    Wow, I spent some time reading the comments on this posting earlier this morning and thought, this is really fascinating watching the speculation of pro and con when we don’t really know what will happen next week.

    Just like the election last fall when a few of us were want Trump to win because we knew, whatever he was he would be better than Hillary and he is. A very good friend of mine who was dying of cancer last September made the comment that in his whole life and he was my age he had never seen a matchup as nutty as Trump and Hillary and he hoped he would live to see who won but he didn’t, he passed away mid October. However his detachment at the time of observing the fascination has stuck with me.

    In spite of all of the full time coverage of all of the events leading up to today some people are picking every little piece apart as if they had some sort of power to change things or hold someone, anyone accountable. As for me, I am just a little old Texas man enjoying the years I have left and watching, with fascination to see what happens next. Alas, it might really be something big and not very pleasant or things might work out better than we can imagine.

    But, and this is a big but, I am not counting on the mass media or the pro and con commenters above to keep me informed. I suspect the truth and real story will slowly work its way out and then be a point of contention for a few more decades. I hope every one has a good week end and thank you all for the entertainment on Neo’s site.

  79. neo-neocon Says:

    Dave:

    (a) The alt-right is not conservative.

    (b) Portions of the alt-right needed to be disowned.

    (c) The alt-right disowned the conservatives and were openly at war with them.

    (d) I don’t see that the alt-right had much success in fighting the left’s propaganda. No one has really made a dent in it. Reagan did, and he was NOT alt-right, but that was a long time ago.

  80. om Says:

    How sad, Teddy the prototype progressive Republican, was a bigger narcissist than DJT or BHO. And the point was relevant? That’s why art’s posts are “scroll by” so much of the time. Bill and BigMac, keep raising points that others wish to ignore.

  81. Brian E Says:

    “But, and this is a big but, I am not counting on the mass media or the pro and con commenters above to keep me informed. I suspect the truth and real story will slowly work its way out and then be a point of contention for a few more decades.” – OldTexan

    I think this about sums it up. For the past few days-weeks-months we have been barraged with a series of fake news reports.
    All lies have an element of truth, otherwise they wouldn’t be believable. But for the most part the stories are lies.

    Reading the comments on this blog, from supposed “conservatives”, it’s hard to believe we’re on the same side.

    Neo has been fairly evenhanded about her analysis of the events– but even her skepticism leaves a taste of scandal, given the overwhelming nature of the attacks.

    And yes this is the most disgraceful, despicable display of “journalism” in the modern era of politics. Of course, it’s not journalism, it’s an all out attack on the legitimacy of Trump.

    I’ve been trying to think of exactly why? Trump’s not a Republican, he’s not a conservative, so yes, if conservatives can be peeled off from support, much of his agenda fails. But then much of his populist agenda doesn’t sit well with conservatives anyway.

    Why destroy Trump? He’s an outlier, but he put together a coalition that frightens the progressives/socialists to their core. He proved that, in spite of the supposed inevitability of the multicultural wave, white voters can still elect a president. And while this wasn’t an alt-right election, and yes, overt racism needs to be resisted, it’s the progressive/socialists that have defined the battle. It’s blacks-hispanic-women against ??? white privilege.

    They tried to shame white women from voting for Trump, but this assault is an attempt to drop a nuclear bomb on the coalition of conservatives (who really had no other choice) and rust belt democrats who strayed off the reservation.

    And those disaffected democrats are critical. Because if Trump can coalesce this base, and others refine the message, his populist nationalism can become a dominant force to counter the socialism the democrats offer. It’s inherent nationalist pride versus free stuff.

    It seems, reading the comments, that conservatives are only marginally less frightened about this than the socialists.

    It’s Make America Great nationalism vs. The One World Order a.k.a. free trade trickle down socialism.

    The greatest wealth transfer in history occurred in the last few decades. from the middle class to the “elites’ a.k.a. Wall Street.

    “The Great Recession and the subsequent recovery from it have deepened the wedge between the very wealthy and everyone else in America, plunging the poor deeper into debt and wiping out two-fifths of the wealth held by families in the heart of the middle class. The wealthiest Americans, meanwhile, appear close to regaining all their losses over the same period, according to a new analysis released Thursday by the Congressional Budget Office.”

    “The analysis shows the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans now hold three-quarters of the nation’s wealth, up from two-thirds in 1989, and a three percentage-point increase from the start of the recession. Most Americans found themselves with less wealth in 2013 than Americans of a similar age had in 1989…”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/18/the-wealthy-have-nearly-healed-from-recession-the-poor-havent-even-started/?utm_term=.f04953bc44fe

    Here’s the problem.

    The Democrats have gone full socialist. That’s their solution for the problem.

    And the fingerprints from both parties are on the causes of this dilemma so don’t expect the politicians to make this better. Many of their policies created this.

    The Republican solution? Free markets?

    There is a third way, a way identified by Trump. The left must destroy Trump, since those errant democrats need to be taught a lesson. But it seems there is a number on the right that are, in essence, cheering the left on– in a sort of passive-aggressive “support” of Trump.

  82. Ralph Kinney Bennett Says:

    Send in the trolls; there ought to be trolls… Don’t bother, they’re here.”

  83. om Says:

    Brian E:

    New improved socialism under the new name “Trumpism.”

    It is whatever he says it is, today. It may be different tomorrow but it will always be good. /s

  84. Bill Says:

    Brian E

    “Reading the comments on this blog, from supposed “conservatives”, it’s hard to believe we’re on the same side.”

    Tell me about it. For what it’s worth, I feel the same way.

    The difference is I don’t question your motives and put scare quotes around the labels you give yourself.

    I hate this aspect of Trumpism that those who don’t support him (can you try to understand, even if you disagree, why we don’t?) aren’t really conservatives.

    Because he’s not really a conservative. The irony is thick.

    But if the “side” is now defined as pro Trump or anti Trump, you’re right, we’re not on the same side.

  85. Big Maq Says:

    One wonders that if this were hillary that we are talking about, and not trump, the voices would be shrill on it here, or would they be as serene and sanguine about it?

    I get that the msm and the dems are playing it up full blast. Gosh it is annoying, unfair, and many things we are disgusted with, but…

    Wouldn’t many in the GOP and “conservative” media do the same if it were hillary?

    Would it be the worst ever attack from the right?
    .

    If all we do is just play team politics, without regard of what our leaders are doing, how they are doing it, or why they are doing it, what does that accomplish in the long run?

    How does that serve what we say we want?

    Where’s the point where we expect any integrity, honesty, credibility from anyone in the political sphere, if there is no correcting mechanism, no accountability?
    .

    So now it becomes “unconservative” with some to even criticize trump, even if it is obvious?

    Is there anyone here who could honestly say that they wouldn’t fire a person in their employ if that person operated anything close to trump has over such a short time?
    .

    If we fail to criticize trump on big obvious things, what does that do to our credibility with anyone not already on board with trump?

    And, where does that get us when trying to swing anyone to our “superior” ideas?
    .

    If we fail to raise concerns even about small things, because we fear we’d be giving dems a “Win!!”, where is the corrective feedback loop?

    What will get us the behavior we want from the man who is supposed to represent us?

    How far can he go, how much can he change his policy stands, before it becomes “unacceptable”?
    .

    That said, and asked, we don’t just throw in the towel just because the dems and the msm are all up in arms either.

    But, trump does need to be managed, contained, and focused somehow.

    He’s got good cabinet picks, and Congress seems to have something of an independent voice (they ought to), and now is a time for them all to step up.

    If we want a conservative agenda passed (there are a variety of things we all do have some common ground on), we need the attention to be maniacally on that, and trump needs to stop taking the bait, or swirling the mud in the waters.
    .

    I think most people, if they were honest with themselves, would fire a man like trump, but, at this point, talk of impeachment is much too premature without hard facts on something egregious, as the fall out on any attempt, at this moment, would probably be even worse.

    I’m guessing that all this swirl on russia will be a long he said, she said type of process without conclusion, neither implicating trump for anything, but enough facts and pseudo facts to cast suspicion – of which trump’s own behavior adds credibility.

    If I were the dems, that is precisely where I’d want it. Much like the GOP and obamacare (the policy and its implementation), it will be something they can bring up repetitively to campaign on.

  86. Bill Says:

    Big Maq – well said, great questions.

    I think the Russian thing is the equivalent of Benghazi. We all saw obvious, obvious issues with Hillary’s handling of that, and yelled to the heavens that she should be held accountable. Her “What difference, at this point, does it make” was really disgusting.

    Democrats thought there wasn’t any there, there.

    Reverse the roles. Welcome to the new reality. Everything’s flipped.

    For my part, I think Russia wanted to get Trump elected, for whatever reason. I think that’s pretty clear. But if true, that’s a problem between the US and Russia. I’m guessing there won’t be any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia (although Trump sure did appear to be cheerleading their efforts – that’s not “collusion”).

  87. Big Maq Says:

    Thanks Bill.

    I see that Peggy Noonan has a similar message…

    “The president needs to be told: Democracy is not your plaything.”
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/democracy-is-not-your-plaything-1495149082

  88. Brian E Says:

    om, that would be fascism, not socialism.

    On the other hand Goldberg suggested fascism would most likely come from the left.

    More likely fascilism.

    As to Trump having socialist tendencies, I don’t see it. The problem really is we don’t have a market based health care system, and we aren’t going back, so how best to make health care affordable for the average American.

    Bill, I wasn’t thinking of you, since I don’t doubt you’re a conservative. But there are too many Republicans that scare quotes does apply.

    “I think the Russian thing is the equivalent of Benghazi. We all saw obvious, obvious issues with Hillary’s handling of that, and yelled to the heavens that she should be held accountable. Her “What difference, at this point, does it make” was really disgusting.” – Bill

    Bad analogy Bill. What exactly did Trump do to collude with the Russians? The Wikileaks dump came from a disaffected democrat.
    Trump’s support of fracking means Russia continues to lose money pumping oil, which is essential to their economy. I’m not sure why you think Putin would have favored Trump’s economic policies, since Hillary was going to send us down the rat hole of renewables.

    Big Maq, how gracious of you wanting Trump’s impeachment be from something egregious, as opposed to the fakery passing for charges.

    Seriously, I can’t believe you wrote that- “…at this point, talk of impeachment is much too premature without hard facts on something egregious…”

    And you should thank Trump for running cover for Republicans in Congress. Hopefully they’re doing something conservative, because if the press weren’t 24/7 attacking Trump, they would turn their attention to congress.

  89. om Says:

    Brian E:

    So we don’t have to worry about fascism because Trump is a man of the right? We know he isn’t conservative. Haven’t seen much response to the Erdogan’s thugs beating up American’s in our capital. So much for push back to Islamo- tyrants.

    Beyond Gorsuch all so far is ephemeral, EOs can be fleeting, and Trump isn’t the poster boy for consistency. We will see.

  90. The Other Chuck Says:

    On one of the MSNBC shows this evening Ana Marie Cox, aka Wonkette back when, made a statement about Trump that is pertinent. She said that in his entire life he’s never had to face real defeat, or admit that he was existentially and fundamentally wrong about something. Recounting his failed business ventures, she said even there the losses were offloaded to investors through bankruptcies. She summed it up with the observation that he’s unable to correct character flaws because to do so would amount to admitting he’s less than perfect, not a winner.

    She has a point. Many of us who face real adversity come out it stronger and with an earned self-esteem. In boot camp they have a name for the gauntlet – the confidence course. Trump was never put to the test. At 70 years of age he’s a man-child who plays with his twitter account, gets off on firing people in order to boost his fragile ego, refuses the advice of others because only he knows best, and goes his merry way leaving destruction and chaos in the wake.

    As Peggy Noonan says, democracy is not your plaything. This is very serious business with the lives of millions subject to this emotionally stunted man’s whims. The leadership of the Republican Party need to intervene before a real crisis occurs.

  91. Bill Says:

    This was pointed out to me – Trump didn’t say he’d been more mistreated than any President in history.

    He said more than any politician in history.

    A few more names come to mind: Julius Caesar, Nelson Mandela, and every politician, ever, who’s been assassinated.

    Taking him either literally or “seriously” it was a historically ignorant and self-serving whine. (and I’m using “historically” here in both senses).

  92. Big Maq Says:

    Hey, om – you sound a lot like OM – same person?

    If so, welcome back.

    If not, well, welcome.

  93. Big Maq Says:

    “how gracious of you wanting Trump’s impeachment be from something egregious” – Brian E

    @Brian E – you may question my sincerity if you want.
    .

    If it were up to me alone, i.e. if he were one of my existing employees – say a senior executive – I’d have fired his butt a long time ago. Guys like him can kill your business.

    It is like how trump has wide latitude in hiring and firing his own staff – e.g. Comey.
    .

    BUT, he is POTUS, an elected representative, so the calculation is much different.

    It matters what the reaction will be in the electorate.

    Many will feel disenfranchised no matter the grounds.

    There is a set of rules that just don’t make firing trump easy (rightfully so).

    It is a political process, and is rather “messy” as a result.
    .

    Where it gets dicey is determining when the “line” is crossed.

    How far is too far?

    The next hurdle is a prisoner’s dilemma, of personal interests and ambitions vs the greater good.

    Who will champion the change?

    The third simultaneous hurdle is rallying support.

    All of this hinges on the level of harm. To the country. And, to the GOP party – where there no longer is the automatic cover provided for trump.

    There has to be enough public support behind them all – hence, the question on would one fire trump if he was their employee. Enough have to say a firm “yes” to that.

    Plenty won’t, so the calamity of an impeachment will have to be worth it.

    Hence, the word “egregious”.

    I don’t take the idea lightly at all.

  94. OM Says:

    BigMaq:

    OM = om, one in the same, I’ve been reading Neo daily but haven’t had anything of substance to contribute that wasn’t stated already in the threads.

  95. Brian E Says:

    So we don’t have to worry about fascism because Trump is a man of the right?- om

    _____

    “Tell me the ways in which you think Trump is not fascist.”- Slate interviewer

    “I think there are some powerful differences. To start with, in the area of programs, the fascists offer themselves as a remedy for aggressive individualism, which they believed was the source of the defeat of Germany in World War I, and the decline of Italy, the failure of Italy. World War I, the perceived national decline, they blamed on individualism and their solution was to subject the individual to the interests of the community. Trump, and the Republicans generally, and indeed a great swath of American society have celebrated individualism to the absolute total extreme. Trump’s idea and the Republican plan is to lift the burden of regulation from businesses.” – Robert Paxton

    This is from an article in Slate when Trump had some early success at the beginning of the 2016 campaign.

    The article, of course, includes rather superficial reasons he looks like a facist— including how he sticks out his lower jaw like Mussolini.

    But given that the idea that the individual must subordinate their will to the will of the community rather puts to rest the idea that fascism is a feature of the right. The left uses the meme like this:

    “Trump’s campaign has stirred bigoted feelings in the electorate and played to voters’ worst fears and prejudices. And so far, it’s working. Two-thirds of New Hampshire Republicans, according to exit polls, favored Trump’s ban on Muslim immigration.”- Slate article

    But if you look at the significant characteristic of fascism– subordination of the individual to the community, which party is most likely to rightly be described fascistic?

  96. OM Says:

    Brian E:

    You just don’t get Trump’s personal and political history (hint, he’s not one of the Koch brothers). We will have to hope DJT doesn’t return to form, a progressive NY democrat. That won’t work either with the “Resistance.” He isn’t her.

  97. Brian E Says:

    OM,

    I said early on that if he succeeded in pushing through 3 or 4 initiatives, I would consider his presidency successful.

    Leaving aside his supreme court pick, the first of his lower court picks (which are critically important to balance the radically leftist judges Obama inserted, and I could say perverted the delicate balance of power in our political system, he has set in motion an energy policy and environmental policy that will reduce the regulatory drag on our economy.

    He has re-affirmed his commitment to Judeo-Christian values (leaving aside his libertarian stance on LBGTQ issues) and returning control to the states policies that the federal government has usurped.

    So if that is what you mean by NYC democrat, I’ll take it.

    Yes he’s for subsidized health insurance, but then so am I. Health care prices have so outpaced wage growth over the past few decades, outstripping the ability of many middle and lower middle class citizens to afford proper health care.

  98. Brian E Says:

    Big Maq, I don’t question your sincerity, I just think you’re wrong– very wrong even mentioning impeachment without ridiculing the insanity of leftists for pursuing their dangerous agenda.

    At first, I thought of the left’s “resistance” and impeachment talks (including using the 25th amendment) with amusement– a childish tantrum that is so bizarre, impossible to take seriously.

    But what they are doing is more dangerous to our political system than anything we’ve experienced since the unrest of the turn of the century.

    Unwilling to accept the tradition of peaceful transition of power, their agenda will subvert representative government, making an election nearly meaningless as intimidation and soft violence while misusing the court system to thwart legitimate legislative and executive power will ultimately lead from a cold civil war to a civil war with a background noise of violence.

    Don’t get me wrong, conservatives that think they could win a hot civil war are delusional.

    But it’s obvious based on what’s happened in the last two decades, that the left is very willing to use force to intimidate and get their way.

    As I said before, this coordinated attack on Trump is necessary to quash the coalition that Trump assembled to win. If he is successful in bringing out a more historic growth rate and improve the economic plight of areas devastated by the global war on wages, he can prove that capitalism offers more to the wage earner than the quasi-socialism of government handouts that the left is determined to reduce the middle class to accepting as their lot.

    We need to make it clear to the left that impeachment is not an option.

  99. OM Says:

    Brian E:

    “We need to make it clear to the left that impeachment is not an option.”

    What other parts of the constitution do “we” need to remove as options for the next eight years?

    Just askin’

  100. Brian E Says:

    OM,

    When conservatives play the impeachment game, it becomes a sliding scale of offenses real and mostly imagined.

    At this point, all the offenses are imagined.

    We’re seeing a pattern develop here, where a news story of some “unprecedented” offense is committed by Trump. Folks like Neo, respond and while skeptical, assume that the story might have a basis in fact. The story is debunked, but the cumulative effect is another paper cut.

    Conservative may think their principled talk, but it just adds fuel, IMO.

    “I” talk does nothing to advance the conservative portion of Trump’s agenda. It’s not like your moving Trump away from his MAGA agenda.

    But since we’re talking about amending the constitution, Kasich’s push to ratify and balanced budget amendment is a change whose time has come. More important than the 90’s push for term limits.

  101. Brian E Says:

    “I think there’s a case for removing Trump on the grounds that he is clearly not competent to execute the office — not that he has committed “high crimes and misdemeanors,” but that he simply lacks the emotional and mental capacity to do the job. “- Megan McArdle

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-18/the-case-for-dumping-trump-rests-with-his-supporters

    Never Trumpers and Almost Never Trumpers are playing a dangerous game.

    I think McArdle is the token “conservative” at Bloomberg. Isn’t she also carried by The Atlantic?

    The left is worried by the coalition Trump put together. Apparently so is the GOPe.

  102. neo-neocon Says:

    Brian E:

    You wrote the following:

    Folks like Neo, respond and while skeptical, assume that the story might have a basis in fact. The story is debunked, but the cumulative effect is another paper cut.

    Actually, I assume no such thing.

    Each time there is such a story, I assume we don’t know. I evaluate whatever facts have been presented as well as whatever people are claiming are the facts, and try to judge as best I can, knowing how difficult it is.

    In the case of the “Comey nut job” assertion, for example, I wrote the following:

    So, it it the truth? Did Trump say something of the sort to the Russians? Sean Spicer didn’t repudiate the quote, but he didn’t confirm it either. This is ambiguous, but it indicates there may be at least something true about it and that Trump may indeed have said something very much like it.

    In other words, in that particular case, I’m evaluating the evidence of quotes from Sean Spicer. Spicer gave a very ambiguous quote that definitely did not deny that Trump had made the statement. Only on that evidence do I very tentatively conclude that the “nut job” quote, or something like it, may have actually occurred—because I think otherwise there would have been an outright denial from Spicer.

  103. Big Maq Says:

    @Brian E – the problem is not about discussing impeachment itself. This is the consequence of something else.

    It is the lack of self-awareness, self-reflection that is with our POTUS, AND with many of his supporters.

    trump needs a rebuke, with a lesson learned and course / behavior correction.

    Like a child transitioning to teenager, the more we put it off, the bigger the troubles he will get into.

    We all let the little things slide, especially during the campaign, yet, they seem to getting more consequential (even if he is not guilty of any crimes – probably not, as we can tell).

    At what point is trump worthy of some serious criticism from the people claims he is fighting for?

    What is too far for them?

    Will they still be steadfast in the face of something egregious?

  104. The Other Chuck Says:

    Big Maq:

    Even if you get him to somehow end the impulsiveness and realize how much he’s hurting himself and the conservative cause, many of his populist proposals like protectionist trade policies and infrastructure spending are not answers. Here is a quote from Nick Gillespie’s “All This Impeachment Talk is Pure Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

    Trump is the function of our disillusionment and that’s one of the reasons why he is ultimately an electoral dead-end. Never a consistent conservative or Republican, he is the sterile end of 20th century politics, the last in a long line of bullies-who-will-tell-us-how-to-live that has no future. Despite some good deregulatory gestures, he is too mired in 1970s nostalgia for a world that ceased to exist even before his first divorce. That was enough to squeak by Hillary Clinton, who also didn’t bother to offer a future-oriented vision for America, so secure was she in her historic victory.

    Coal miner’s jobs will not suddenly reappear with the end of environmental controls because natural gas is more competitive. Manufacturing jobs will never, ever come back as before because automation and robotics are replacing them. Whole industries have almost become obsolete overnight. The printing industry is in collapse with e-books closing down bookstores, internet news and advertising making newspapers and magazines quaint memories, and point of sale computer terminals virtually ending the business forms business. Up river from the printing industry are paper mills that are consolidating and closing – with or without environmental attacks. And this is just one industry.

    And finally assume that the make work projects, sales of weapons to our enemies/”friends” – the whole populist list of government spending and mercantilism succeeds. No where in any of this is a solution being proposed for trillions in unfunded entitlements of Social Security and Medicare. If the hope is that a GDP of 4% or more will magically produce tax receipts to bail us out, they are dreaming. Politicians always find a use for extra tax money. After all, they are the ones who engineered the mess to begin with.

  105. Brian E Says:

    “If the hope is that a GDP of 4% or more will magically produce tax receipts to bail us out, they are dreaming. Politicians always find a use for extra tax money. After all, they are the ones who engineered the mess to begin with.” – The Other Chuck

    That’s why Kasich’s initiative to bring a balanced budget amendment to a constitutional convention is critical.

    About half of the 7 million jobs lost to manufacturing in the last two decades were due to manufacturing efficiency. The rest were driven offshore to reduce overhead– some wages, some tax structure.

    Sure not all of the jobs are coming back. No one said they were. Coal is under pressure by natural gas, but I think you underestimate the pricing advantage of coal.

    The investor class was too busy profiting from the multi-nationalization of industry to notice the havoc it was playing in American housholds. At the same time we were offshoring jobs, consumer debt was spiking.

    This is credit card debt:

    Average American Household Debt: $5,700. Average for balance-carrying households: $16,048
    Households with the lowest net worth (zero or negative) hold an average of $10,308 in credit card debt.

    Our standard of living is an illusion.

    While Trump’s approach is not a magic bullet– the current trajectory isn’t sustainable either.

    It seems to be reduced to whose ox is going to be gored.

  106. Big Maq Says:

    “No where in any of this is a solution being proposed for trillions in unfunded entitlements of Social Security and Medicare. If the hope is that a GDP of 4% or more will magically produce tax receipts to bail us out, they are dreaming. Politicians always find a use for extra tax money. After all, they are the ones who engineered the mess to begin with.” – Other Chuck

    Agree. Especially with unfunded liabilities – an order of magnitude or more bigger than our current debt load.

    The time horizon is 10-15 years.

    For today, trump (his behavior) is probably the first hurdle on our path to addressing this.

About Me

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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