British authorities ignored many warnings about the Manchester bomber
Yesterday I wrote this:
In the case of Manchester terrorist Salman Abedi, there were warnings aplenty. But they were general, and amounted to mere speech of a suspicious nature, and it’s not surprising that nothing was done…
This is potentially dangerous behavior, but not actionable behavior except perhaps to call the person in for questioning or some sort of monitoring of activities. I’m not sure if even that was done in the case of Abedi, but I very much doubt it would have mattered had it been done. And there are just too many Abedis all over the Western world to monitor effectively, even if law enforcement wanted to do so and was allowed to do so.
Now we get more details on the warnings that authorities had received about Abedi prior to the bombing—and by “prior” I mean during the previous five years, when at least five warnings were called in on separate occasions from different people. That’s a lot of smoke indicating a fire:
Salman Abedi told friends that “being a suicide bomber was okay”, prompting them to call the Government’s anti-terrorism hotline…
The authorities were also aware that Abedi’s father was linked to a well-known militant Islamist group in Libya, which is proscribed in Britain. Abedi also had links to several British-based jihadis with Isil connections…
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said: “People in the community expressed concerns about the way this man was behaving and reported it in the right way using the right channels.
“They did not hear anything since.”
Two friends of Abedi also became so worried they separately telephoned the police counter-terrorism hotline five years ago and again last year.
“They had been worried that ”˜he was supporting terrorism’ and had expressed the view that ”˜being a suicide bomber was ok’,” a source told the BBC.
Akram Ramadan, 49, part of the close-knit Libyan community in south Manchester, said Abedi had been banned from Didsbury Mosque after he had confronted the Imam who was delivering an anti-extremist sermon…
A US official also briefed that members of Abedi’s own family had contacted British police saying that he was “dangerous”, but again the information does not appear to have been acted upon.
I know there are just too many suspicious people, and reports of their suspicious behavior, for authorities to effectively “monitor” them all (whatever “monitoring” consists of in this day and age). But this is an outrage. This guy was a walking red flag, and basically nothing appears to have been done—not even questioning? At most there’s a single mention that he might have been put on a “watch list.”
Why do these hotlines even exist? Is it to reassure people that they are helping authorities to do something about it when in fact nothing is done? In other words, to give a false sense of security?
And what happens to those on such a “watch list”? If Abedi was on one, it apparently was one that was all “watch” and no action, because he was allowed to regularly travel back and forth to Libya despite it, and it is suspected he traveled from there to terrorist hot-spot Syria as well.
I wonder—did authorities even compile a file on Abedi linking all these reports, or was each call-in treated as disconnected from the others? It seems as though most of them came from the Muslim community in Britain, which would stand to reason would be the main and most valuable source of such complaints. In particular, if the story about Abedi’s being banned from the Didsbury mosque for protesting an anti-extremist sermon is true, that would be the reddest flag of them all.
Are authorities not allowed to do anything at all until someone has acted? Or do they do nothing out of fear of being accused of Islamophobia if they do something? Or are they simply overwhelmed by the numbers, because there are thousands and thousands of people with records just as suspicious as Abedi’s? And if Abedi had not been a citizen, would the reports about him have been treated more seriously, and if so in what manner?
As always, the question is what is the proper remedy for this situation. Non-citizens with terrorist sympathies could be deported (at least theoretically; I doubt we or Britain actually do very much of it), but citizens cannot. What’s more, with a hotline you have the problem of bogus grudge complaints phoned in with the goal of getting someone deported or in trouble, so authorities must authenticate the charges, which can be difficult.
Clearly, the problem is already more than authorities can handle or are willing to handle.
One commenter at this blog has suggested that Islamic terrorists should be treated less as criminals and more as enemies in a war. The problem is that citizens do have certain rights, and suspending them in the case of jihadi terrorist sympathizer citizens who have not yet committed any crimes leads to a dangerous situation where we could have a two-tier justice system.
I’m all for increasing the penalties for terrorist acts or plans for terrorist acts. But terrorist-sympathizing thoughts or words are a different matter. And if we use a warfare analogy, we could end up with domestic internment camps as in WWII. There is no way that is going to happen now.
Which brings us back to my question: what is the remedy? Is there one? One remedy would be to red flag people such as Abedi more readily, and institute more sting operations (including computer surveillence). But that would almost certainly involve the allocation of more resources towards the anti-terrorism activities of law enforcement, as well as the will to do it (which we seem to lack). Another remedy would be quicker deportation of non-citizens who are determined to be jihadi terrorist sympathizers or activists. It seems to me that every non-citizen is here as a guest of this country, and if the guests abuse that privilege they need to be shown the door.
[NOTE: If you can bear it, here are the names and photos of the Manchester victims and something about the life of each. It makes for heartbreaking reading.]
The remedy is to surrender to Islam.
Recall the scandal in England where Muslim taxi drivers were raping young girls, the authorities knew about it and did nothing because of Islamaphobia.
There are already over 40 sharia courts in the U.K. now.
Just give up. Churchill is dead and gone. Everything he stood for is gone.
And with today’s absurd Fourth Circuit case, we aren’t far behind.
Few can admit the truth. There are millions of Muslims who want to destroy the West and the Left is helping them. Islam is not compatible with Western civilization.
Its racist to think the worst about people who have not killed yet… (unless christian or not left)
duh..
you would really really be surprised at what the papers in college and others things are teahing to make people in power think this way!!!!!!!!!!!
i can show you pictures of manchester feminists marching to stop racism and phobia and have many more… (note that it doesnt matter if they are local or not, it matters how many and how emboldened such are by other acts… MS-13 kept its stuff low till it too had lots of people from outside and inside, thats how that works… the academics though, have theories and ideas and they are not based in reality. i know, i work with them and they really say some stupid non common sense stuff to which the people below them make them look good (have one pussy hat wearing woman upset she is discovering through engineering and our systems logs tghat the people she had resect for didnt deserve it)
After Cologne, we can’t let the bigots steal feminism – New Statesman
This isn’t ‘feminism’. It’s Islamophobia
ALL over they are at the front of the protest and there isnt anything anyone can say, or else they marginalize and everyone discounts the argiment. if you dont believe me, let me know who wins any such with them over time?
meanwhile the feminists are blaming men all around, from the men they invited in and the culture they embolden, to the emascualted men of their own nation who are not going to do a thing!!!
right now, the women of france are protesting how these people they invited and forced in against most mens concepts of security, are now not able to walk in the dark, and in certain areas, and are being abused in public and more… (in the old days, the respons would have been their family or others in community teaching such people a lesson, but now, the men are like no way… let the special forces women take care of it. isnt it enough you call us nazis you want us to go after the races?
here are them marching in manchester
http://moonbattery.com/graphics/manchester-refugees-welcome.jpg
Stand Up To Racism: Stand Up To Rape Culture!!!
How a Fractious Women’s Movement Came to Lead the Left
Feminism brought the opposition together. But how long will that last, and how many converts can it win?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/magazine/how-a-fractious-womens-movement-came-to-lead-the-left.html
nothing will happen till the women want it to happen, and then it will… they dont get the power they are told they dont have, they dont get that they WERE The reserve of intelligence in the species, and more..
instead, they are now the dumb arse slaves of the leaders of the left and the crowbar to push this stuff and to prevent opposition… any man who wants to keep his home, kids and stuff, will just shut up… (unless he is lucky and doesnt have that kind of western woman, of which there are some of course. though exceptions prove the rule!)
and in sweden, denmark, and everywhere feminism is in the west.. (where its not, like ex russian states, they build walls and dont let themselves get infected with their own mental viral deseases they created!!)
Protest over ‘no-go zone for women’ in Paris … – The Local France
French Protest “No Go Zones” Where Migrants Routinely Harass Women
Immigration: French women organise protests to take back streets
and you can find these were the same ones who wanted to bring them in… and i have no idea who will do their dirty work. but treating society like moving furniture, dont work. can we move the ofa there, can we move muslims here.. oh wait, i liked it the way it was, can you but the sofa back… oh wait, i liked it better before, can you put the muslms back?
[edited for length by n-n]
I think maybe this fact about how well known this particular individual was is part of the complaint about the leaks about
it from this side of the Atlantic Ocean. Having all this information coming out at just how ineffective law enforcement is in this area is damning to any government, and especially damning to one looking at an election in a few weeks.
Hey Cornhead you sound like a MGTOW man 🙂
Men going their own way and enjoying what life has
and avoiding all this stuff that ruins it, and avoid the ladies who will ruin it too (unless you do find one that is not like most of the rest)….
they were all at the front…
tons and tons of images of women marching to bring these people in as they are the FRONT of the unite fronts movements and all that stuff, and if they can force men to let people in who will destroy things, they control the world, men dont..
The men always follow their orders or their lines become extinct
WHich is why from nechyeve, and even marx, they said to control and trick the women. who are the most important… they even doffed how special and such the ugly ones are..
Social progress can be measured exactly by the social position of the fair sex, the ugly ones included.” – Karl Marx
necheyeve says to use them they are very important dividing them up from true revolutionaries to the VAPID. (you know the slut walkers the people in opposition to themselves, the super model who says she didnt make it on her looks)
efore Marx became a socialist, let alone a ‘Marxist’, it is clear that he held more or less traditional attitudes on marriage – read Rheinische Zeitung, the Cologne newspaper
he even attacked hugo about his relativism:
But the sanctification of the sex drive through exclusiveness, the restraint of the drive through law, the ethical beauty which turns nature’s command into an ideal moment [aspect] of spiritual union — the spiritual essence of marriage — this is what is suspect in marriage for Herr Hugo
then a bit later
They think only of two individuals and forget the family. They forget that nearly every dissolution of a marriage is the dissolution of a family and that the children and what belongs to them should not be dependent on arbitrary whims, even from a purely legal point of view. If marriage were not the basis of the family, it would not be subject to legislation, just as friendship is not.
the destruction of family and the seed of modern feminism is born (which has a different lineage than the others!!)
In Marx’s Theses on Feuerbach, written before The German Ideology, the fourth already announces the opinion that the family ‘ must … be destroyed in theory and in practice
So intent is Marx on the ‘abolition of the family’, in fact, that he practically has it abolished already in 1845. He announces ‘the bourgeois dissolution of the family’, admitting only that the family still exists ‘officially’ as a property relation. By this ‘bourgeois dissolution of the family’ Marx appears to mean such things as: ‘The dissolute bourgeois evades marriage and secretly commits adultery’, etc. It is not a very convincing demonstration of dissolution. With the proletariat ‘the family is actually abolished’, he emphasizes, and ‘There the concept of the family does not exist at all’ — a proposition for which no empirical data are given at all.
now, what are we men to do since they dont want us, and they hate our masculinity and they want immigrants and tell us we are racists, and then want us out of scchool work and more..
when they wanted to stay home, they stayed home
when they wanted to work, they worked
when they wanted college, they got college
when they wanted us to pay for it too, despute parity was reached in 1967 (see census data), we did that
when they wanted the white guys out we did that too
when they wanted others in we did that
when they wanted open borders we did it
when they wanted free medical we tried
when they wantd to share bathrooms with deviates we said ok
when they wanted to walk naked to stop rape we looked the other way
when they imported people who would attack them, rape boys and girls, and create a point where men may join islam to get male life back, we let them.
when they wanted to turn the girl scouts to gender warriors, we let them
for oppressed people we sure let them dictate what they want.. but then it was said way before: there is even a famous quote from famous peopel of that truth…
they wanted us to be racists even if we werent
they wanted us to leave work, and we have a lot
they wanted the muslims
they wanted genital mutilation
they wanted this
they can have it..
can you really express how many people lives families and such ahve died or been destroyed due to a fickle nature in which they ask for X, then get it, then dont want it? (want white fence, got it, dont want it. want to work, got it, now hate it. want to move the couch, got it, want it back. want to have muslims here, got it, want it the reverse)
now, let the attacks of arfldgr begin
and if not
thanks
The left told their army of idiots with pussy hats, exposed breasts, mattresses on their backs, to invite the most patriarchal oppressive religious group with mass following into the country.. and like sex with bad boys, deseases, and all that, they happily did it and suffer its outcomes cause they lack their own agency. (they follow, either their family, the fads, the ideology, etc… very few stand up like the 8 year old girl on wall street. just think how many support things yet say they are not a part of it… funny… they often need an enabler, etc)
they should learn other languages, but they are so used to external people using them for their own ends, they follow idiots to their own family destruction, society destruction, financial destruction, and more.. .
or do you think these things are as sold as when they were in the past and it was part of our competency and ability to exist and not be defeated because we cant function..
not that you can get any to read things try learning about “Hijrah”and why our history books dont cover an ancient form of invasion? or other such really really bad things the left liberals and the over 90% teachers insure is not taught to serve an agenda..
Swedish Feminists Flee Suburbs Due to Islamic Fundamentalists
article excerpt:
After Inviting Muslims in, Swedish Feminists Are Pushed Out
[edited for length by n-n]
“In particular, if the story about Abedi’s being banned from the Didsbury mosque for protesting an anti-extremist sermon is true, that would be the reddest flag of them all.”
Indeed. Until the Western governments come to terms with what’s afoot, they will continue to avert their eyes and treat radical Islamism as a “nuisance.”
Certainly a civilization based on Judeo-Christian ethics with a belief in separation of church and state can make laws against advocating murder and establishment of a theocracy. One would think so. But not today. We must be, according to the left, so open minded that our brains actually spill out on the ground…….unless considering conservative principles. In which case free speech is being abolished.
Government’s primary responsibility is to protect the citizenry. But the progressives have substituted redistribution and multiculturalism for defense. A very bad choice.
I bet the hotlines do mainly exist just to make people feel better. Many years ago, I had to call a child abuse hotline concerning a 6yr old in my kid’s carpool. Her little hand was literally black from someone holding it over a flame. I was pretty much told that they would put her name on a list and get around to looking into it when they had time. Seemed like a lot of time and money was spent on advertising the hotline with not much in the way of resources to back it up.
There are two remedies. One remedy is obvious but currently, a political non-starter. As Cornhead points out, the other remedy is to surrender.
By the time the non-starter remedy of expulsion gains a majority consensus, it will either be too late or will require we engage in a horrific, soul destroying response.
Look to Western Europe for a preview of our future.
A refusal to fight fire with fire is to wager all that one has on a wing and a prayer. Perhaps God is listening. Then again, he’s created a universe where actions have consequences. Generally, the deeper the denial, the higher the eventual price reality extracts.
“This guy was a walking red flag” & NOTHING was done. (FIFY Neo) or at least nothing substantive…I’m sure some low-level government functionary filled out a few dozen forms & entered that data into a computer somewhere.
Who is surprised?
The left has invited the enemy, Islam, not only into the gates but given them the keys to the rest of the house.
And now…the women of Europe suffer the fate of conquered women throughout history.
The innocents are slaughtered in their own streets.
The childless bubble-safe politicians offer the obligatory vigils & hashtags.
The taquiyya-spouting “good” muslims pour out the essential faux lamentations & protestations about how “this is not islam” “my children would never…” meanwhile their friends neighbours children families arm themselves for the next attack on the infidels.
The only question worth asking now…Which European country falls first? France? Sweden? England? ???
If and perhaps when the first western nation falls it will be a profound shock to the West. The West has been king of the hill for so long that there is a profound if subconscious assumption that it simply can’t happen. This applies to the liberal left even more than to those on the right.
That assumption’s foundation is the West’s technological and military supremacy. But the Left and its liberal useful idiots have gelded the West’s “strong horse” and its refusal to see its Muslim population as a fifth column is a grave and perhaps fatal mistake.
The EU borderless paradise makes dominoes of its members, especially as its enemy is internal. There is no border to defend between its members. An EU in chaos is an invitation to Islamic advancement. It will also embolden Russia to offer ‘refuge’ to beleagured Eastern Europeans by inclusion into the Russian Federation and embolden China’s regional aspirations.
In 20 years, the world may look profoundly different.
There is a cure. Very few currently will support the cure. One day coming soon, after more — many more are slaughtered by the barbarian hordes, many will support the cure.
The cure can be applied, as I have noted before, by stoppting food shipments to all majority muslim nations, all 57. It need not be done all at once, just start with Iran and Saudi Arabia. 6 months tops they start to starve. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.
Google “rotherham” and “diversity” for more reports than you can stomach about how people in authority looked the other way so as not to get crossways with multiculturalism.
One guy even said he didn’t want to “rock the multicultural boat.”
Fourteen hundred young girls victims of the culture of tolerance.
And there are other places. See Rochdale.
Geoffrey Britain Says:
May 25th, 2017 at 6:58 pm
There are two remedies. One remedy is obvious but currently, a political non-starter. As Cornhead points out, the other remedy is to surrender.
By the time the non-starter remedy of expulsion gains a majority consensus, it will either be too late or will require we engage in a horrific, soul destroying response.
[kind of sounds like WW2 and the US Civil War and….]
Look to Western Europe for a preview of our future.
A refusal to fight fire with fire is to wager all that one has on a wing and a prayer.
[I’m looking more toward fighting fire with water (whatever that might look like, I’m not really sure); but, what the West/EU/US have been doing is pouring gasoline on the fire.]
Perhaps God is listening. Then again, he’s created a universe where actions have consequences. Generally, the deeper the denial, the higher the eventual price reality extracts.
* * *
I believe this to be literally true, but even if you are an atheist, the real world exacts consequences for actions.
Do I really need to link “The Gods of the Copy-book Headings” again?
“Which brings us back to my question: what is the remedy? Is there one?”
Ok…I’ll bite…
1. Immediate cessation of all immigration & travel from Muslim majority countries. Close their borders to the West. Extreme vetting for those who travel through neutral third-countries.
2. Ban all travel to/from arenas of Islamic conflict. Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, & Afghanistan come to mind. Too many of these SOBs go get trained on the front lines & apply their expertise back in the West. No mas.
3. Identify Islam as an ideology in conflict with Western democratic values & ideals. Adherents are therefore banned from holding elected office. Can they serve in the armed forces or police forces? Hmmm…gotta think on that one.
4. Anyone on a “watch list” or identified as sympathetic to islamic jihad lives with techno-monitoring. Non-citizens? Buh-Bye.
5. Parents or professionals who engage in female genital mutilation are jailed for a period of 10 years then deported to their country of racial origin.
Islam is the problem. Cut off its flow into the West first. Then neutralise its spread & practice in the West.
Your turn…
Flap you arms hard enough and think you can fly. Every “new”outrage brings the same responses.
I don’t buy the trope that Western Europe is the predictor of the future for the USA. People can be foolish but people see it ain’t working over there. Even some Europeans see that. Even the British saw that the EU future wasn’t such a great inevitable thing. Have some forgotten that already?
I agree with the thrust of Neo’s post entirely, but there are a couple interesting counterpoints.
“Are authorities not allowed to do anything at all until someone has acted?”
The main reference here might be to federal authorities, but when it comes to local police authorities in America it is true that they are not required to do anything to defend a citizen from a violent criminal act in progress. While this lack of response is rare, it has been adjudicated. Cops cannot be held liable for a failure to protect. You dear citizen, are on your own.
Second point. I agree with Neo 100% that when dealing with a nation’s citizens, authorities must honor those civil rights. But in the case of Mr. al Zawahiri’s son, President Obama couldn’t care less. The son, a citizen, was drone bombed into oblivion even though he hadn’t committed any significant crimes. (Yes, his father was a proven terrorist.)
We all remember the outrage and hysteria in the media when this happened. Wait,… that never occurred. So I guess a president can do anything he/she wants as long as he/she is perceived as politically correct.
My understanding of the case is that Zawahiri Jr. had engaged in treasonous speech or activities, but there are clauses in the constitution covering how the treasonous activity of a citizen must be handled. That didn’t happen either.
I appreciate your perspective, neo. I agree that it’s very important not to degrade the rights of citizens.
On the other hand, it’s important not to allow the enemy to use our rights-oriented societal norms against us. If you grant that this is a war, I think one has to consider a citizen terrorist the same way one would consider a citizen who joined the opposing side as a soldier — from a military perspective, this person is now an enemy.
The Manchester bomber joined the other side. It’s now clear that there was abundant evidence of this before the atrocity. It seems to me that it would not be improper for that evidence to have been shared with the military. Information about a terrorist should be considered military intelligence, regardless of the citizenship of that terrorist.
I have a lot of faith in our system of government and I think we can solve this problem effectively if we take it seriously.
What I find most unnerving these days is how few people are willing to take anything seriously. But that is a topic for another day.
The large number of suspects arrested in a few days suggests the police were aware of dangerous people but they did not want to risk not being PC.
The issue of the WWII Japanese internment camps is worthy of reflection. Only Japanese living in the western military districts were moved. The concern was Japanese submarines coming ashore. That was a time when people where willing to defend our way of life, and Japan was an existential threat. As Gen Lemay pointed out, If you kill enough of the enemy, they will quit. The A bombs worked. The Europeans haven’t decided they are willing to defend themselves.
The Brits are no doubt still ignoring many warnings.
I am in believe some people who mad it to western world despite their believes here I am not talking about death penalty, just take their families (mother, father, sisters, brothers and kids) put them in plane send them back to their homeland tell them enjoy your rest of life their, with strip their citizenship and passports and put all in blacklist the not able to enter the country again.
this the only way the world will live in peace.
The Manchester Libyan connection – a recruiting ground for jihadists
Raphael Hostey
This F* terrorist sends him back to Pakistan with his four wives and F* sons and daughters back and let apply Sharia’s law there at most corrupted place. stop paying for his Social welfare and housing his four wives