Meanwhile, North Korea rattles some ICBM sabres and Trump chides China
North Korea claims to have launched its first ICBM:
North Korea claimed on Tuesday morning to have launched its first intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), according to media reports, the regime’s 11th missile test so far this year.
Japan, Russia, South Korea and the U.S. all tracked the missile, which could not immediately be confirmed as an ICBM.
North Korea claimed the long-range weapon could “reach anywhere in the world.”
As with so many things North Korean, it’s not easy to confirm exactly what happened and how far it can reach. But something was launched, and that something was subsequently confirmed to have been an ICBM:
The United States asserted Tuesday that North Korea’s latest missile launch was indeed an intercontinental ballistic missile, as the North had boasted and the U.S. and South Korea had feared. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called it a “new escalation of the threat” to the U.S…
The prime danger from the U.S. viewpoint is the prospect of North Korea pairing a nuclear warhead with an ICBM. The latest U.S. intelligence assessment is that the North probably does not yet have that capability – putting a small-enough nuclear warhead atop an ICBM.
Initial U.S. military assessments had been that it was an intermediate-range missile. NORAD, or the North American Aerospace Defense Command, said the missile did not pose a threat to North America.
The US and South Korea responded in this fashion:
In a show of force directly responding to North Korea’s provocation, U.S. and South Korean soldiers fired “deep strike” precision missiles into South Korean territorial waters on Tuesday, U.S. military officials in Seoul said. The missile firings demonstrated U.S.-South Korean solidarity, the U.S. Eighth Army said in a statement.
This is disturbing news from North Korea. Disturbing but hardly surprising. North Korea has been on this seemingly inexorable path since the 1990s, and neither Democratic nor Republican administrations or Congresses have so far been able to do much to stop them.
The UN Security Council will be holding a special session today, for what that’s worth. And Trump is trying to pressure China to do more:
His tweet Wednesday moves the dial even further. He doesn’t only reiterate that he’s giving up on China as a partner, but condemns it for its long-established trade relations with the country. He paints China as part of the problem.
With Trump’s increasingly heated rhetoric, sanctions, and the arms sale to Taiwan, the White House’s softer approach to China may be coming to an end, at least for now. The administration wants Beijing to do more, and is signaling a potential willingness to play hardball to get China in the game. Now the question is what ”” if anything ”” China will be willing to do in response.
Such interesting times.
From various news reports, it seems that it hit the sea somewhat “near” Japan.
If true, didn’t the US deploy anti-missile technology, and why would they let one get that close to Japan?
Were they able to determine it wasn’t a threat based on trajectory? Do they know enough of Nork capability to be sure it didn’t have a secondary system to change direction?
Questions IDK the answer to that maybe someone here knows more, or can point to someplace credible with an explanation.
I’m sure the Japanese would like to know too – and maybe the right folks over there do.
Japan would be a fool to trust in the uS, so would any other us ally or protectorate.
One man did not create the US Constitution and one man won’t save it.
Worry more about the new Chinese sub, and the Russian nuclear missile that goes 7 times the speed of sound.
At that speed, it could go aground the globe in his many minutes
And that didn’t include the EMP China tested
The feminist missile launch California (see it was a missile)
But the best was the flip a switch and truth of us defenses..
You guys are way way behind what’s really out there
artemptydgr,
Unlike N. Korea’s Kim, who increasingly appears to have a death wish, presumably Russia and China are not suicidal. Until weaponry is developed that negates the retaliatory effectiveness of our nuclear subs, any attack upon America using WMD will also result in that aggressor ceasing to exist.
One thing’s clear, N Korea is either one day going to start a terrible conflagration or not.
What is troublesome is their ability to align with other rogue nations at any point. That’s the biggest thorn they pose.
Tongue in cheek.
Missile went 600 miles, and from that it is calculated that it could go 4,000. Maybe. I trust the calculations were not done by the same people who did the ones–or who designed the climate models– for Al Gore and his merry band of doomsayers.
NKorea supposedly tested a nuclear weapon that fizzled. I know of no verified reports of a successful test. Iran, which I suspect is much more technologically capable, and has infinitely more resources, is apparently still struggling to develop a nuclear weapon.
Tongue in cheek because I well recall how we built the Soviets into Supermen back when I was active. Good for Defense budget negotiations. Focus on NKorea is a convenient diversion from more verifiable problems.
Color me cynical; but, our government has a history that encourages such skepticism.
For what it’s worth, I saw a reference somewhere that characterized the North Korean missile as an IRBM — an Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile — rather than an ICBM (InterContinental Ballistic Missile).
That does strike me as more accurate . . . for now.
Pakistan, a full fledged nuclear power, and ever hungry for cash, is the one to watch. They can, and probably have, assist NK and Iran in their ambitions. However, China is now at a decision point. They have leverage, it is a matter of how much they are willing to use.
Until weaponry is developed that negates the retaliatory effectiveness of our nuclear subs, any attack upon America using WMD will also result in that aggressor ceasing to exist.
There’s news that a false flag or Pearl Harbor like attack will occur in the US, with emp bombs developed by US companies that think they are doing it for national defense.
Instead of an EMP tech from N k, Iran, or Russia, it is highly likely and more likely, that it would be American or Israeli companies that has the tech base to construct such a device. This would be conducted by the Deep State shadow units, which Presidents, cabinents, Congress, and CIa directors have no knowledge of.
Military people didn’t believe me in 2008 either, when I told them it might be feasible for Hussein to conduct a false flag, red flag operation against a US base to kill the families attached to it, as a reason to declare emergency rule. This was a few months before Ft Hood 1 and 2. Apparently US bases aren’t as hardened as people thought. And much of it was insider terror cells operating, imagine the damage if Hasan had been able to bring in 10-12 units of terrorist toting weapons in the gate.
Whatever is going on between Hussein and the Leftist alliance’s setup with Islamic Jihad, they are distanced enough that their C3 and C4 aren’t very good. They aren’t coordinated well enough. They have just enough attacks to keep Americans on their toes and on their knees in front of Islam, but not enough yet for emergency rule.
High level strategic wars, is where the peons and peasants on the bottom, which include MSM and twitter, aren’t told what is really going on.
Russia and China both moved armies to the N K border sometime ago. They seem ready for something.
Old’s theory that the NK demos are a neat focus for defense contractors, might also be true. Usually the saber rattling precedes a war, where the US President declares up and down the nation that they won’t get us into foreign wars. Demoncrats always promise that. Wilson told everyone the US would not join WWI. Then started hauling weapons on ships like the Lusitania, waiting for the Germans to sink one. FDR did the same thing. Trum declared we won’t be in foreign wars either, even though we’re still in Afghanistan. Maybe he’ll continue the Demoncrat tradition of fooling Americans.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8-12&version=NIV
Since the entire online world, not just me, is going on about the end times, might as well include this.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation–but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs–heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
A person that actually believes in those words, can’t be scared into submitting and kneeling down before the secular state, the Leftist cult, or the Alt Right/Ctrl Left authority.
The conflict in the West is becoming increasingly about State/Muscular Christianity vs the other 1st century ad Christianity. One faction, of course, will fight for progress and goodies in this war. The other faction or factions, will fight for the reward after they die. You can’t become immortal and resurrected, without dying. But humans are trained by the Deep State and the Leftist cult, to resist dying and to sacrifice everything for the safety promised by the State. 1984. Brave New World has the other side of things, where the Google rewards all people with all things as the praxia and the nirvana and the third eye new age awakening of transhumanism upload.
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
There are two types of humans. Those who can’t discipline themselves, so they do whatever feels good, such as those on generation long welfare having 9 kids to collect higher checks. Then there are those produced by the West, considered the ideal, that can be patient and wait for their reward.
Westerners, especially Americans, have lost their patience. They want a solution now. They want a State that protects their Christian cult of nice and cultural traditions, the Law which the Pharisees screamed endlessly about. Yet it was not the Law that was going to save them in the end.
They don’t even want to think about the 25th of december not being Jesus of Nazareth’s birthday. Instead, pay the corporations until your bank account runs out. Why? Because it feels good, everyone else is doing it, jump on the band wagon. If you don’t jump on the band wagon, the Alt Right and the Ctrl Left will make you jump on somebody’s band wagon.
GB says presumably Russia and China are not suicidal.
It’s quite possible Russia and China plan to wipe N Korea off the map as well if necessary, but right now it’s just a chess piece to use for one purpose or another.
Another foreign policy victory from the Obama team of JFK, HRC, Power, Rhodes and Rice.
Oldflyer,
There are a number of reports that the missile was fired straight up and reached a height of 1700 miles landing 600 miles away. It is calculated that had that missile been fired on a maximum distance trajectory it could easily have reached Anchorage and almost reach Seattle. It is definitely a breakthrough in range.
There are indications that the N. Koreans have miniaturized a nuke to the point where it will fit on such a missile but there is doubt that they have cracked the difficulties in developing a protective heat shield and the tech needed to control when the nuke detonates.
Ymar Sakar,
What possible difference does it make when the actual birth of Christ occurred?
A false flag is certainly possible but just doesn’t seem likely. Such an action would have to have an end goal and presupposes the ability to control disparate dynamic factors. That would require a vast conspiracy that encompassed the top echelons of the military, other federal agencies, the mass media and the internet.
groundhog,
What motivation would Putin have for attacking a Chinese client State? Nor has China indicated that level of vitriol toward its N. Korean pit bull.
Geoffrey Britain Says:
July 5th, 2017 at 7:52 pm
Oldflyer,
There are a number of reports that the missile was fired straight up and reached a height of 1700 miles landing 600 miles away. It is calculated that had that missile been fired on a maximum distance trajectory it could easily have reached Anchorage and almost reach Seattle. It is definitely a breakthrough in range.
* *
That was in the news report I saw.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/07/north-korea-missile-launch-indicates-ability-to-hit-alaska.php
(because I won’t link directly to the NYT)
“The bottom line is that, President Trump’s early bluster notwithstanding, we are probably going to have to live with the possibility of a North Korean nuclear attack. Why? Because our responses as North Korea developed its nuclear weapons capability were hopelessly naive.
Just as they have been when it comes to Iran.”
And then there is this one:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-european-backpackers-and-lovebirds-fund-kims-embassies/ar-BBDOw7L?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
“…It’s impossible to know exactly how much income North Korea generates from embassy activities. Zang Hyoung-soo, a professor at Hanyang University who has studied North Korea’s finances, said only 10 or so of its 47 embassies are big enough to make money. “Because Kim doesn’t pay his diplomats, any money made at the embassies are just enough to make payments necessary to operate the embassies,” Zhang said. (sic – names are hard to transliterate, but you would think they could do it the same way twice)
Still, it is the tip of a very large iceberg. Besides renting real estate, North Korea has generated billions of dollars a year dealing drugs, selling weapons, counterfeiting currencies and exploiting guest workers, according to the International Network for the Human Rights of North Korean Overseas Labor.
North Korea’s properties in Germany, Bulgaria, Poland and Romania are particularly spacious. After the regime’s founding in 1948, Eastern European countries granted their new Marxist friend generous plots of land in prime locations. By contrast, embassies in locations such as London, which established ties in 2000, are more cramped.
Germany, Bulgaria, Poland and Romania have all told the UN they are taking steps to get the embassies to stop renting out their premises. Still, they can’t just move in and close them down, in part because they are among the nations that have embassies in Pyongyang….”
The more I think about it, the less likely it seems that Kim has a death wish. Despite his ruthlessness, I suspect he’s more cunning than is apparent.
S. Korea is not going to give Trump the green light to start another Korean war. So a conventional air campaign is out, given that it could easily trigger a N. Korean assault on S. Korea and Seoul’s 25 million citizens.
Politically, a preemptive US nuclear attack is out. As, in the West proportional retaliation has long been accepted as the only valid use of nuclear weapons.
Kim is counting on an American refusal to chance drawing China into a nuclear war.
So we will do nothing proactive and Kim will continue to develop his nuclear ICBM arsenal. Once he reaches a sufficient capability, I continue to think it likely that he’ll use it to hold the region’s major population centers hostage to American non-interference when N. Korea invades S. Korea. A national goal that I strongly suspect N. Korea has never relinquished. In fact, it’s part of the glue that holds that society together. The unquestioned doctrinaire meme is that N. Korea must ‘save’ S. Korea from its capitalist oppressors.
A successful N. Korean invasion of S. Korea buttressed by a rabidly rogue regime with Nuclear ICBM capability that holds 150+ MILLION innocents hostage… aligned with China’s South China Sea dominance will push American Naval forces out of the South East Asian region. Not through force but to avoid conflict, the Pax Americana in that part of the world will be consigned to history’s dustbin.
China will then essentially rule Asia through facilitating the realization of China’s dream of a Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere centered on China.
China is not going to neuter its pit bull, it’s far too useful a pawn.
G.B.: “China is not going to neuter its pit bull, it’s far too useful a pawn.”
Agree. We missed our chance to pressure China into bringing the Norks into line when they were asking for membership in the WTO. Most of that negotiation was done by the Clinton administration. They not only missed that chance to get the Chinese to pressure the Norks, but allowed missile technology to be sold to China.
The military has had plans (updated regularly) in place for several scenarios since the armistice in 1953. A pre-emptive attack is the last choice, but may be necessary at some point. We aren’t there yet. Many things can still be done. More trade restrictions, more pressure on China (currency manipulator?), more jaw, jaw but now with a big stick held in plain sight.
It’s a very difficult problem. And a lesson – never accept an armistice in place of a surrender.
How many times do I have to point it out ?
Iran and North Korea are military-technical partners.
The real reason that Beijing has lost control of Kim Jong Un is Iranian money — placed in their hands by Barry Soetoro.
It’s this stash that solely explains the astounding technical tempo we are now witnessing.
Everything Kim is doing is financed by Tehran — and is cross licensed to them.
So IRAN is breaking out into the Atomic Club at this time, too.
This is how a pigeon plays chess.
The USN Fitzgerald was on station southeast of Tokyo as an ABM shield.
And we know how that worked out.
She was operating under Emissions Control — stealthy, with no radar emissions — and the watch blew it. The crew had become accustomed to receiving radar notice of close by shipping. So when the radar was turned off, they proved to have no skill at spotting a black hull at 1:20AM local time — even though MV ACX Crystal would’ve had its running lights on.
Red China has built its islands in hurricane alley.
These are the same waters that nearly sunk Halsey’s fleet in 1945.
Cebu has been flattened so many times that the Spanish upped stakes and moved off to Manilla — centuries ago.
I don’t know who is calling the shots for the PLAN… but he must be retarded.
As for Kim’s project: Beijing OWNS it.
So when Kim fires off atomics, he’ll be starting a full on atomic war.
The single most likely outcome: Taiwan, South Korea and Japan all become atomic powers.
All three powers will end up building non-nuclear submarines that can launch atomic missiles. No other platform exists that can provide these crowded nations with an atomic counter strike.
Kim’s missile program can only have one utility: conquest of South Korea.
Looking at Vietnam, Pyongyang figures that Washington will fold when the hour comes.
There’s this centuries-old strategy in the Kremlin playbook called ‘controlled tension.’ Basically, it means they ratchet up the tension in a given geopolitical situation to the point where it’s intolerable to the other side, and then they camp out at that point indefinitely. Seems to be standard issue Communist strategy, and it’s what the Chinese have been doing with us via North Korea for decades now. Xi’s perfectly fine with everything Kim’s doing, it gives him leverage with us. It’s up to the God-Emperor to take that leverage away, one way or the other. Trump had the perfect response to the ICBM launch: “Doesn’t he have anything better to do?”
Truth is, North Korea may have the world’s fifth largest army or whatever it is, but we could flatten it in a matter of hours.
Couple of points:
Neville Chamberlain ran the appeasement game on Hitler but neglected to be out of office when it bit him and the rest of the world in the butt. Obama’s timing was better. He leaves the war to his successor who, deliciously, is a republican.
Decades ago, WFB suggested that the USSR , in matters of weapons control and suchlike, would put a ridiculous proposal on the table and let the US administration negotiate it with the US liberals.
And that’s where we are today.
blert,
That’s useful info.
But you have to repeat it until your point is clear. Example; “I don’t know who is calling the shots for the PLAN… but he must be retarded.
As for Kim’s project: Beijing OWNS it.”
??? Forgive my obtuseness but at least to me your meaning is NOT clear.
Whose PLAN? Pentagon? China? N. Koreans?
If, due to Iranian funding China has lost control of its pit bull… then how can China OWN Kim’s project?
If “Kim fires off atomics”, why would China get into a suicidal nuclear war with America? To what purpose?
Sean,
“Trump had the perfect response to the ICBM launch: “Doesn’t he have anything better to do?”
That’s the kind of thing Bill Clinton would say… and it also indicates a probable lack in understanding N. Korean motivations.
“Truth is, North Korea may have the world’s fifth largest army or whatever it is, but we could flatten it in a matter of hours.”
Estimates are that it would take 3-4 days to eliminate N.K.’s artillery and rockets that threaten Seoul. “The Nautilus Institute study [linked below] projects 60,000 fatalities in the first full day of a surprise artillery attack on military targets around Seoul, the majority in the first three hours.”
“Mind the Gap Between Rhetoric and Reality”
What possible difference does it make when the actual birth of Christ occurred?
It makes a difference to the faithful believers when they celebrate Christmas as the birth of the Christ, while it is not.
It’s like the Jews switching around the dates for festivals and the moon calendar because it sells more. Sex sells is the motto of the world, and people will have to choose a side in this war or a side will be chosen for them.
Such an action would have to have an end goal and presupposes the ability to control disparate dynamic factors. That would require a vast conspiracy that encompassed the top echelons of the military, other federal agencies, the mass media and the internet.
It only requires a centralized onion ring of insiders, like the Federal Reserve. It doesn’t require everybody in the bank or exchanging currency or speculating or profiting off the bank, to be in on the inner circle.
Many people had no idea, in Germany, that Hitler was worshipping half angelic hybrids called Aryans. Westerns even today, talk about fascist this and fascist that, but doesn’t go into the deep research. The deep state is only a recent term after all.
Did the IRS require a huge conspiracy that encompassed Democrats like Trum and Russians like Putin? What about Fast and Furious, was the FBI, CIA, State governors, and Republican establishment traitors in on it too? What about Waco 1. What about waco 2. What about Ruby Ridge. What about Janet Reno’s holding children for 24+ hours and torturing them for confessions. Did all of that require a “vast” conspiracy.
It’s up to the God-Emperor to take that leverage away, one way or the other.
Your god emperor can’t even defeat Lucifer in one battle. That’s a pretty pathetic and weak god.
“What possible difference does it make when the actual birth of Christ occurred?” GB
“It makes a difference to the faithful believers when they celebrate Christmas as the birth of the Christ, while it is not.”
It’s recognizing the importance of the birth of the Christ that’s important NOT when you celebrate it.
“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, but if true, of infinite importance.” C. S. Lewis
Remember it was the Pharisees who placed importance upon minutia. Illustrated when they objected to Jesus acting on the Sabbath.
How can you miss the meaning of, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”?
Evidently, you fail to see the forest for the trees… reducing our relationship with God to legalistic minutia completely misses his ministry’s message.
“It only requires a centralized onion ring of insiders, like the Federal Reserve.”
To create a false flag event, perhaps. But to achieve the goal and purpose of a false flag operation requires being able to control and direct the reaction to that event. And that requires comprehensive control, which in America means having the ability to control a multitude of disparate factors.
Currently, the Deep State simply does not have that ability. As if they did, Trump would already be on trial in the Senate. Since the Deep State would already have created ‘irrefutable evidence’ of Trump’s ‘crimes’. Ala Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria, head of Stalin’s secret police, telling Stalin, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”…
Remember it was the Pharisees who placed importance upon minutia. Illustrated when they objected to Jesus acting on the Sabbath.
Remember that the truth was supposed to set you free. Relying on governments, the Law from your Founding Patriarchs called the US Constitution, was the same thing the Pharisees did. They promoted the idea of the Law of Moses ,their Founding Father, over that of their Messiah. And it wasn’t even the Law of Moses: before Moses and Abraham was, Jesus is. That was the divine law before it became the human law that was corrupted and added to by human patriarchs.
If you think it is minutia, a good case can be made for homosexual marriage right now. It’s still one man and one woman, not polygamy, so what is the harm in ignoring the minutia. So long as it is the state doing it, and not churches, Christians should be okay with it, right.
The world that calls itself Christianity is as white washed tombs. Nice on the outside, empty of all but bones on the inside. And that’s not a minutia.
But to achieve the goal and purpose of a false flag operation requires being able to control and direct the reaction to that event.
That’s a minutia that makes no difference. The issue is whether a false flag can or will occur, not predicting the motive of the murderer. One does not need the motive to prove manslaughter/homicide, only for murder of the first or second degree. The idea that you know what the goal and purpose of a false flag op is, is based on the erroneous premise that you have the ability to discern a flag flag op to begin with. Which you have not. Hussein Obola was firing a bunch of military officers and replacing them with Leftist loyalists, or have you forgotten. Leftist loyalists are loyal for a reason. Trum grabbing a Marine as a top replacement, doesn’t purge the ranks. While Hussein was doing this, people ignored it even though I brought it up. That is why they can’t see the dots and even if they are given the dots, they can’t connect the dots.
It was only when the military started fail smashing their teeth into foreigners like Naval ships surrendering and the uS paying ridiculous ransoms to Iran, that people suddenly “wanted to connect the dots” and started claiming they had always seen it: Iran is bad! No, they didn’t see. They see what they want to see.
Currently, the Deep State simply does not have that ability. As if they did, Trump would already be on trial in the Senate.
Assuming you know the motives of the Deep State when you didn’t want to believe in a Deep State a few years ago, is not accurate reasoning.
How can you miss the meaning of, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”?
Christmas and worshipping a Christ on the 25th of December has nothing to do with the Sabbath, unless it actually falls on the lunar sabbath originally set by the Hebrews.
Try to stay on topic here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_nuclear_explosion#List_of_high-altitude_nuclear_explosions
As for North Korea, I’ll make a rare but simple prediction. If the Nks are retarded enough to break the test ban treaty and actually explode something of a nuclear nature at a certain attitude, China and Russia and the US will cooperate and invade the country to purge it of all tech, if sanctions and sabotage doesn’t work first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests_of_North_Korea
The reason is because of the test ban treaty, but the real reason is the one behind the treaty itself and the previous air tests. I’ll keep that reason under wraps for awhile yet.
The Deep State knows the real reason behind the nuclear test ban, and it is not spread to all the bureaucrats either.
Also, the idea that “minutia” is classified as missing a person’s birth day by 2 years, then it means if Trum is sexing a 16 year old, the “minutia” that she is underage by 2 years, isn’t all that important.
“Try to stay on topic here.”
LOL, OK… I’d suggest that you critically reread your response but after that disjointed ramble I’m doubting that you have anything beyond bluster to offer.
blert: “Red China has built its islands in hurricane alley.
These are the same waters that nearly sunk Halsey’s fleet in 1945.”
I’ve long pondered this move by the Chicoms. Makes no real sense. These unmoving, man-made outposts are vulnerable to typhoons, to guided missiles, to an amphibious landing, to a SEAL attack, etc. They are not outposts of strength. They are sitting ducks. Why spend the money and waste the manpower? Maybe they believe they can cow the PI and Vietnam through such “shows of force.” I’m doubting it.
As I’ve said before, Ymar Sakar, I don’t know anything about Christianity, so I don’t write about it. I would hope for the same restraint from people who don’t know anything about Judaism.
So as to your points about Judaism: the Jews never switched the dates of the festivals. They are the same today as they are given in the Torah. What we did do was add an extra lunar month in seven years out of 19, so the holidays would remain where they are supposed to be in the solar year, i.e, Passover in the spring, Shavout in the summer, and Sukkot in the fall, instead of, as the Muslims do, have a strictly lunar calendar in which Ramadan travels all around the solar year.
As far as Jesus’ birthday, I think — and this is, admittedly a guess — it was probably on the first day of Hanukah, the 25th of Kislev, a date that would have been notable, but was translated to the 25th of December when the early Christians decided to cast their lot with the Romans and not the Jews.
I don’t know what Jesus was doing on Shabbat to merit condemnation, but there are two points to remember here: First, Jesus was executed by the Romans for rebellion — “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews,” in Latin, not by the Jews (not that they would have used crucifixion, if they had the power to execute, which they didn’t) when the sign would have been “Jesus of Nazareth, Challenger of Religious Orthodoxy” in Hebrew or Aramaic. The fact that the Romans had a Judenrat of collaborators to give them cover is of no moment.
Second, observing the Sabbath is not minutia to Jews. While we may argue around the edges, the idea of resting on the seventh day is very important to Jews. Remember that gathering firewood on Shabbat was a death penalty offense during the trek through the desert. The observance of a day of non-work was one of the main reasons for Roman anti-Semitism — they just couldn’t see that you shouldn’t work every day (those who had to work, anyway). Again, I don’t know what Jesus was doing on Shabbat, but if it was one of those things characterized as work, it would have been a serious offense.
I don’t agree that we have lost our leverage over China. They need to sell us their stuff a lot more than we need to buy it.
“Nice little trade surplus with the US you’ve got there, Mr. Xi. Be a shame if something happened to it.”
So as to your points about Judaism: the Jews never switched the dates of the festivals. They are the same today as they are given in the Torah.
I never claimed the Jews switched the dates of the festivals. Check the quad blood moons of 2015.
The point was whether it would be a minor detail the way Christmas is to Christians. Switching it by even one day, would be a big deal, as in other examples under “the law”. But the idea that it was wrong by 2 years, and by X months, well they think it’s a minor quibble like Pharisees arguing about “the law”. There’s a law involved here, but it isn’t what people think.
Again, I don’t know what Jesus was doing on Shabbat, but if it was one of those things characterized as work, it would have been a serious offense.
The specific charge is that Jesus of Nazareth healed a man on the Sabbath. Since they couldn’t deny the powers of a prophet or the healing, they chose to argue the legality. The counter was that since Jesus gave the law to Moses, he is the Lord of the Sabaoth and not the other way around.
The fact that the Romans had a Judenrat of collaborators to give them cover is of no moment.
Caius is the high priest of the Sanhedrine. Do you understand what the Sanhedrine is in Israel? They resurrected it.
Pilate was told by Caius and others, to change the wording on the plate to mean “self proclaimed king of the Jews”. Pilate actually went quite out of his way not to kill an innocent man under Roman law.
And as I mentioned to Neo, the Jewish sanhedrine in various cities, did the same thing to Saul, a Pharisee that was present at the stoning of Steven. Saul was only saved from the whip, because he was a roman citizen. And he was only saved from the sanhedrine because of the powers of resurrection and foreknowledge of events.
The original charge by Caius against Jesus of Nazareth was the charge of blasphemy. It is what the Masoretes rewrote the Torah and the Old Testament scriptures to delete the Two Powers in Heaven present during Moses’ burning bush and during various other incidents such as Daniel’s cloud rider. Caius tore his clothing because he knew exactly what jesus was claiming to be from theology. Calling himself a son of god as in Psalm 82 is bad enough. Daniel’s cloud rider was Jehovah, known as the god of Abraham, the Alpha and Omega, the Holy One of Israel.
First, it’s the Sanhedrin, not the Sanhedrine.
“I never claimed the Jews switched the dates of the festivals. Check the quad blood moons of 2015.”
Really?
“It’s like the Jews switching around the dates for festivals and the moon calendar because it sells more.”
Your post illustrates every thing that I mean about not knowing anything about Judaism but purporting to explain it to me and others.
If the Sanhedrin had been independent, it never would have accused Jesus of violating the Sabbath by healing — p’kuach nefesh, saving a life, takes precedence over virtually all other laws, including the prohibitions of work on Shabbat.
Jesus would not have been executed by the Romans even if he had violated Jewish law. The Romans thought Jewish law, especially the laws of the Sabbath, was ridiculous and roundly criticized the Jews for it.
Psalm 82, in Hebrew, doesn’t say anything about “the” son of God, a totally unfathomable concept to Jews; it says that we are all children of God, and accordingly, should act better, and will pay the price for not doing so.
No one in authority in Roman-occupied Judea would have cared that Jesus went around preaching, or even performing some prophetic-type miracles — there were dozens doing that. What sealed Jesus’ death warrant was proclaiming himself, or being proclaimed, the Messiah.
In Jewish tradition, the Messiah is a descendant of King David, who will restore the independent Davidic kingdom.
Obviously, that requires overthrow of the Roman occupation, hence rebellion, hence the death penalty, hence the sign over Jesus’ crucifix, “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews,” in Latin, not a language spoken by anybody
in Judea circa 33 AD, but used only for official actions of the Roman Empire.
Under Roman law, if Jesus had proclaimed himself to be the Messiah, he was a rebel, and
the sentence was 100% correct. If only others had called him that, the sentence would have been unjust, but deemed politically necessary.
I don’t know Greek, but I suspect the word translated as “thief” really meant “brigand,” which is the word used by the Romans (and by the Communists!) for “rebel.” Jesus was executed as a rebel and his crucifix placed with other rebels.
If the Sanhedrin was involved at all, its acquiescence was the work of collaborators, not the act of an independent Jewish court. Joseph Caiaphas (not Caius!), the High Priest, is reported to have said, “It is better for you that one man die for the nation than that the entire nation be lost” — exactly the same thing the Judenrats of Nazi-occupied Europe said when turning Jews over to the Gestapo.
LOL, OK… I’d suggest that you critically reread your response but after that disjointed ramble I’m doubting that you have anything beyond bluster to offer.
Trying to distract yourself and me with the claim that Christmas is Sabbath thus vice a versa, is not only a violation of divine decrees, but it doesn’t even make logical sense. For someone like you ,GB, who prides himself on his logic and not his emotionalism, you might as well be speaking against the Holy Spirit.
The reason why you don’t get matters of the spirit, is because you do not have the eyes to see and accept the truth. Just as Leftists are given the truth and find ways to rationalize it. Something in your culture or upbringing or just your bank account, proclaims that Christmas or the Birth of this Jesus the Messiah, is on the 25 of December, 0 AD. None of that was ever true, it’s just a lie told to you and now you tell to yourself and others.
A practicing member of the tribe of Judah and Benjamine, would understand what it means for Jesus of Nazareth’s birthday to be on Tish 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tishrei
The issue here isn’t whether dates matter or not, it is whether the truth matters or not. When a Christian calls the truth of a matter mere minutia, starts acting like Hillary Clinton’s “What difference does it make”, and then blinding himself to very simple counter arguments, one naturally comes to the conclusion that you no more understand the topics of the spirit than topics of the law. Nor do you understand the words of Jesus of Nazareth any better than the Pharisees did back during this argument.
http://biblehub.com/niv/john/8.htm
You can run away from the solid facts of the case, GB, but don’t pretend to me or to yourself that it is a disjointed ramble. If you want to keep your position, then repeat that charge here twice more, now that the Holy Spirit is a witness against you. There are plenty of witnesses here to make the charge stick, we have far more than the 2 or 3 required by divine law.
Your post illustrates every thing that I mean about not knowing anything about Judaism but purporting to explain it to me and others.
Your selective quoting of my post, that is. What I actually wrote was this.
What possible difference does it make when the actual birth of Christ occurred?-GB
It makes a difference to the faithful believers when they celebrate Christmas as the birth of the Christ, while it is not.
It’s like the Jews switching around the dates for festivals and the moon calendar because it sells more. Sex sells is the motto of the world, and people will have to choose a side in this war or a side will be chosen for them.
Try to stick on topic instead of making up things as you go along, just because you want to preach the dogma of your culture. You can preach the dogma of your culture all you want, but don’t pretend I’m going to buy it just because you think you know more about the Jewish laws and histories than I do.
It is quite clear I was commenting not on the Jewish customs, but on the Christian customs of GB and etc. The Jewish commentary was merely to provide an example of my point which was above that sentence. Jews have festivals and Moses, and the Christians have the Christ, who is also the Jewish messiah. It’s a smile. Do they not teach similes in the Jewish education system, rabbi.
First, it’s the Sanhedrin, not the Sanhedrine.
Artificially trying to correct an English tetragrammation of Hebrew which only has consonants, and which was later corrupted by the Masoretes to include vowels, when you can’t even get a summary of my own argument straight, isn’t doing you much credit as a Jewish rabbi.
It’s like people read the Torah and Bible yet understand them not.
Psalm 82, in Hebrew, doesn’t say anything about “the” son of God, a totally unfathomable concept to Jews; it says that we are all children of God, and accordingly, should act better, and will pay the price for not doing so.
Now you think you capable enough to argue theology with the holy spirit, I see. Well, let us see how that works.
So the classical theological rationalization here is that Psalms 82 is talking about humans being children of god.
Psalm 82
A psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
The problem is that it also says “you will die like mere mortals”. Why would someone tell Neo Neo that you will die like Neo Neo, or a man that they would die like any other man or a woman that they would die like any other woman. It doesn’t even mean anything, unless one can implicitly take it as a threat. Is God and the Prophets threatening the humans who are children of god now, rabbi?
This doesn’t even address the internal contradiction of god talking to other gods that they are clueless children of his.
The backup witness to this goes around back to the New Testament. http://biblehub.com/niv/john/10.htm
Search the scriptures, as the Jews should have been taught, if they ever respected the Holy One of Israel, the god that saved them in the Exodus, the god that sent Abraham a child, that sent Moses and Aaron to save the tribes of Israel groaning under the weight of child sacrifices in Egypt. Search the scriptures. Even if it was just the Torah, that would be enough in the uncorrupted version, even without the New Testaments.
In Jewish tradition, the Messiah is a descendant of King David, who will restore the independent Davidic kingdom.
No, in 12 tribes of Israel tradition, not just the tradition of one or two tribes that think they are supreme, there are two Messiahs. The messiah from Joseph, will be killed because he is the Prince of Peace. The Messiah from David, will be the conquering hero that creates the nation state of salvation or a divine kingdom. Since Judaism does not recognize the Two Powers in heaven nor Jesus as Jehovah or Jesus as Messiah, then they are still waiting for the Jewish Messiah. Except what happened to the Prince of Peace?
Also, there’s a reason why Luke had a genealogy of Yeshua that goes back quite a while.
Under Roman law, if Jesus had proclaimed himself to be the Messiah, he was a rebel, and
the sentence was 100% correct. If only others had called him that, the sentence would have been unjust, but deemed politically necessary.
Unfortunately for the Sanhedrine propaganda created by the Pharisees and Gaius later on to justify their plan to kill Yeshua, the disciples of Jesus wrote down the conversation Pilate had with Jesus. In that interview and interrogation, Pilate specifically asked Jesus from what kingdom was he the king of and where it was. Obviously if one is going to kill a king of a rebel or foreign country, one should know which one it was to begin with. Jesus replied that “you say I am the king of the Jews”. That is not an admittance to being a rebel or a king. Jesus also said “the responsibility for this is on the instigators, you who follow Roman law/authority do not bear the greater responsibility”. Pilate washes his hands later. Also, in the conversation it was revealed that the kingdom that Yeshua is said to be the king of, is not of this Earth. Pilate then walks out and says this man is innocent. That is your Roman “law”, Richard Saunders.
Jesus was executed as a rebel and his crucifix placed with other rebels.
Except there was another rebel, called Barnabas or Yeshua Barnabas, the Savior Barnabas perhaps that was the meaning of the phrasing. Caius and the Jewish crowd called for Pilate to pardon Barnabas, who was a murderer, rebel, and gang leader. Pilate even goes out of his way to mention that they can grant a pardon, and the Sanhedrine picks that guy. Pilate would have been fine executing Barnabas and releasing Yeshua of Nazareth. But Caius and the Sanhedrine decided otherwise, that Jesus needed to die, for various reasons. Little did they know that the Israeli people have often acted for stupid reasons in the sight of their god and their god is just molding them around and about. The entirety of Samuel (or maybe you want to argue the minutia that it should be spelled Shmuel) testifies of the various evil acts of the tribes of Israel against the Holy One of Israel, their god. It’s consistent with the entire history of the tribes of Israel, from Exodus on down. Judaism can reject the Catholic and Orthodox version of Jesus, but Judaism will have a tougher time out arguing its own Torah.
“It is better for you that one man die for the nation than that the entire nation be lost”
Except they could have just let Barnabas die and the Romans would have said to their Emperor “see, we killed all the rebels”.