July 7th, 2017

Europe and the US: Roger Simon asks…

…whether “Europe—subsconsciouly—expects America to save it again?”

My short answer: Yes, indeed. And not just subconsciously. I think they consciously expect it and believe it is their due.

But I also don’t think Europe—and we’re talking about Western Europe here, to be clear—believes it will require saving. It believes its current path is the right one, both in the moral and the practical sense.

Not all Western Europeans believe this, of course, not by a longshot. That’s why various nationalist, anti-immigrant, anti-EU parties have gained a lot of traction in recent years. An interesting question is whether that movement will gain support or lose it over time.

27 Responses to “Europe and the US: Roger Simon asks…”

  1. vanderleun Says:

    It will gain it inevitably and it will end in genocide and guns.

  2. Griffin Says:

    But as the article mentions how is the US going to ‘save’ any of these countries from some kind of internal uprising amongst their ‘Asian’ migrants? It’s not like they will be crossing borders or something. The Europeans already invited them in.

  3. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Western Europe is a dead man walking. Irony writ large that leftist Western Europe’s post modernistic precepts such as multiculturalism and transnationalism will result in its own destruction.

    The Muslim majority’s refusal to assimilate, along with its demand that the native culture accommodate Muslim ‘sensitivities’ plus Islamic terrorism guarantee that the various nationalist, anti-immigrant, anti-EU parties will gain even more traction in the future.

    When civil war erupts, I won’t be surprised to see Europe’s many totalitarian leftists side with the totalitarian Muslim invaders.

  4. Sgt. Mom Says:

    As fond as I am of my memories of Europe, and of having lived and traveled there, I have to say that if they won’t fight for themselves, for their way of life, their history and their institutions – why should we fight for them?

  5. Ray Says:

    When I lived in Berlin, Germany in the early 1980s they had a lot of guest workers from Turkey. They had an economic reason for inviting them. The guest workers stayed and now they have invited hundreds of thousands more Muslims for no economic reason. It’s all about the leftists showing how virtuous they are.
    A little story. In Berlin the Turks concentrated in the Kreuzberg district. There was a ubahn line that went there and it was jokingly called the Istanbul express. When you got on you were in Berlin and when you got off you were in Istanbul.

  6. expat Says:

    Ray,
    It is the enclaves like Kreuzberg that cause the problems. In smaller towns, the Turks are much more assimilated. There was also a demographic change in Turkey itself as people from Anatolia moved into Istanbul and other eastern areas. The brought their tribal customs with them. I don’t know whether they were looked down upon by the more sophisticated urban Turks, but I suspect that they make up a lot of Erdogan supporters. Another factor that inhibits assimilation is the arranged marriages with cousins from back home. That means that the kids continue to be raised by homeland customs and are stuck between two worlds.

  7. expat Says:

    Powerline linked to this article today, and it’s worth reading.
    http://www.libertylawsite.org/2017/07/07/the-clash-of-traditions/

    It is just amazing to me that so many supposedly educated Westerners really think they are beacon lights for the whole world. If only the Amis would stop being so belligerent, they could all talk their way into peace. Of course when conflicts break out it is the belligerent Amis who should have to pay.

  8. huxley Says:

    I just heard they’re remaking “Murder on the Orient Express” and there are no Asian actors.

    Imagine!

    O the humanity.

    http://observer.com/2017/05/murder-on-the-orient-express-twitter/

  9. Frog Says:

    I recommend Douglas Murray’s just-published “The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam”.
    He concludes Europe as the cradle of western civilization is in terminal stage. Death throes are awaited.
    We saw this today in Hamburg: 1500 cops injured, 46 demonstrators arrested.
    https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499461587&sr=8-1&keywords=douglas+murray+strange+death+of+europe

  10. Frog Says:

    expat: Istanbul is western Turkey (geographically, Europe), Anatolia is all of Turkey east of the Bosporus. With Ankara, the capital, in Anatolia’s center.

  11. expat Says:

    Frog,
    You are right. I’m a little out of it today and got est and west mixed up.

  12. Kyndyll G Says:

    “When civil war erupts, I won’t be surprised to see Europe’s many totalitarian leftists side with the totalitarian Muslim invaders.”

    We saw how well that union worked out in Iran.

  13. parker Says:

    Don’t write off France. It is not as far gone leftist as you may think. The rest of western Europe, perhaps excluding the UK, are lost. Remember, Western Europe is now, as long live human history, a hotbed for pressure cooking war.

  14. Lizzy Says:

    It’s interesting that two big refugee advocates, George Clooney and his UN human rights lawyer wife Amal, are demonstrating a change of heart. They are leaving London for LA, and selling the Como, Italy villa (with a new refugee camp nearby) to find a less accessible replacement. The will feel safer in America.

    As always with the Left, you have to trust their actions over their words. To paraphrase Instapundit, I’ll believe it’s safe to live among the refugees when those who tell me they’re safe and only enrich their community choose to live with them.

    Maybe the tide is turning? Probably too late.

  15. Lizzy Says:

    Parker, IIRC France has the highest population of Muslims of any European country, around 22%. France may have reached a demographic point of no return given the birth rate differences and that the muslim population is now big enough to elect their own political leaders (in towns where they are the majority) and/or force compliance with demands (because the sheer size of a revolt would be overwhelming).

    If you’re not reading it already, I would recommend checking out http://gatesofvienna.net/

  16. mollynh Says:

    France where the elderly Catholic priest was assasinated (?beheaded) while saying Mass. Yes these invaders have much respect for God, the elderly, and throughly enjoy gruesome acts of murder.

  17. blert Says:

    The same infantilization has occurred in South Korea, the Philippines, and South America.

  18. AesopFan Says:

    Sgt. Mom Says:
    July 7th, 2017 at 3:51 pm
    As fond as I am of my memories of Europe, and of having lived and traveled there, I have to say that if they won’t fight for themselves, for their way of life, their history and their institutions – why should we fight for them?
    * * *
    Roger Simon left out one of the precedents.
    “If things get really bad, daddy (Uncle Sam) will come to the rescue again, just as he did in WWII with the Marshall Plan and in the Cold War.”

    WWI was the first big rescue (I count the American Experiment itself as a “save” as well, for the countries moving from monarchy to democracy), and the Marshall Plan followed winning the war. In both wars, Europe was still interested in saving itself, although I’m not as sure about the Cold War (Eastern Bloc countries had a bigger reason to cheer the end of the Cold War than did the Western Bloc, which was indeed protected from Russian expansion by the US commitment).

    Trump’s speech in Poland is almost a game-changer.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/07/07/trumps_powerful_speech_in_poland_134405.html

    https://amgreatness.com/2017/07/07/trumps-defense-west-every-foot-ground-every-last-inch/

    Which is why the MSM is spinning it like a top.

  19. AesopFan Says:

    Lizzy Says:
    July 7th, 2017 at 10:20 pm..

    As always with the Left, you have to trust their actions over their words. To paraphrase Instapundit, I’ll believe it’s safe to live among the refugees when those who tell me they’re safe and only enrich their community choose to live with them.
    * * *
    There’s a reason why Instapundit is such a big go-to blog.

  20. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Irony writ large that leftist Western Europe’s post modernistic precepts such as multiculturalism and transnationalism will result in its own destruction.

    The irony is that the Christianity of the West, and their reliance on hypocrisy instead of the truth, will also result in their destruction. The church of Leftist gaia cults and ideological religious dogma won’t save them, either.

  21. Ymar Sakar Says:

    It is also Ironic that a country called America, so big on individual self reliance, has made the entire world drink of its power and addictive wealth, creating a co dependency.

  22. AesopFan Says:

    The reason the EU can’t pay for its foreign defense is that it has used up its money paying to clean up after its own internal rioters. Not unlike the US, btw.

    http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/07/the-german-ship-of-fools-on-the-rocks-in-hamburg/

    “Fortunately, there is always someone to pay for the party — you can rely on the taxpayer. And when a protest under the peaceful moniker “Welcome to Hell” gets just a little bit out of hand, then surely it was the fault of the police officers who forgot their good manners. That’s the way things are on the Ship of Fools HMS Germany, where every protest is “political” as long as the “activist” can just scribble his phrase on his banner — like “sink capitalism” and all that. On such occasions, even the local theater opens its gates for those brave anti-globalists who did not find any more room at the nearby campsite. A halo is best polished with state money.”

  23. Tuvea Says:

    Per Tom Lehrer at least we won’t have to worry about the Germans. “We taught them a lesson in 1918 and they’ve hardly bothered us since then.”

  24. Sam L. Says:

    “But I also don’t think Europe—and we’re talking about Western Europe here, to be clear—believes it will require saving.” And they won’t, until it’s too late.

  25. A_Nonny_Mouse Says:

    Another thought on “But I also don’t think Europe—and we’re talking about Western Europe here, to be clear—believes it will require saving.”

    They’re living sooo deeply inside their “Vision of the Annointed” (to steal from Thomas Sowell) that the OBVIOUS PATTERNS of refusal-to-assimilate to Western standards of behavior (the riots, the rapes, the beheadings and stabbings, the unemployment, the skyrocketing costs of welfare, the no-go zones, the criminality, the trash and litter in the “refugee” areas, the insistence that THEIR habits, customs and beliefs should take precedence over the laws and culture of their new country) are simply not seen, not acknowledged, not considered to be “a pattern” at all.

    You’ve got ten-thousand “one-off” incidents of “an isolated, mentally disturbed, anti-social individual”, and The European Leaders are totally and willfully blind to the fact they have a REAL and GROWING problem. They’ve fixed their minds to the belief that THEIR OWN CITIZENS “cause” all the problems by “not being welcoming enough to the newcomers”.

    Liberals have a habit of inverting cause-and-effect. (Think of the Community Reinvestment Act: “make homes cheaply available to The Poor And Under-Served, and they will develop middle-class habits and take care of their property, and Urban Blight will be eliminated”. This is TRULY what they believed
    would happen.)

    But Reality will not be ignored; neither will human nature. “Whatever I can get away with” will be the order of the day until “… terror and slaughter return”.

    I’m not entirely sure the Civilized West will be able to survive the Return of Kipling’s Terrible Gods.

  26. Frog Says:

    Ymar is less than clear when he writes “The irony is that the Christianity of the West, and their reliance on hypocrisy instead of the truth, will also result in their destruction.”
    Who is “their”?
    What is “their” truth, “their” hypocrisy?
    If he speaks of Christianity, what truth does he prefer, and why? How well versed is he in Christianity? Including its history? Does he prefer Eastern Christianity over that of the West?

  27. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Frog Says:
    July 8th, 2017 at 9:38 pm

    Since the comment is to GB’s comment, there’s context. http://neoneocon.com/2017/07/05/meanwhile-north-korea-rattles-some-icbm-sabres-and-trump-chides-china/

    Ymar is hard to stick a label on. Labels like atheist, anti Christian, or Leftist, are good and nice to be able to filter out people and stop paying attention to them. People who cross genres and labels, are hard to label and it tends to drive people to extremes.

    Trum is another one.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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