July 10th, 2017

Young Japanese find that sex is scary

Especially when it’s with other people.

Well, you know what? It is kinda scary, especially when you’re young and a virgin. But it used to be—long, long ago, when I was a sweet young thing—that there were certain urges that propelled one into it despite any fear.

I grew up in an era when sex was scarier than today in certain ways. It was much more difficult to get birth control, so the risk of pregnancy was higher. Abortion was illegal (see this for a previous post of mine on the subject). Society placed a huge stigma on it, and on unwanted pregnancy as a whole, even if you married. A girls’ reputation could suffer not just from a pregnancy, but from having sex too easily and with too many people (and in some groups, one was too many).

But there were forces that propelled us into having sex and into getting married—because back then, the two were linked. The link was neither inevitable nor inextricable, but it was much tighter than it is today. And we wanted to marry (both men and women, for the most part), because marriage was the entree into officially approved sex and adult life, as well as children and a better standard of living and a social life that revolved around coupledom. In addition, sex was a force that was hard to deny (and who would want to, anyway?), and it was more difficult to satisfy the need to have sex outside of marriage unless one consorted with prostitutes or what was then called (unironically) sluts.

Now, it’s different. Very very different. Feminism is part of it, the sexual revolution that began in the 60s is part of it, leftism is part of it, economics (people of either sex can be self-supporting) is part of it, technology is part of it. Porn is ubiquitous and varied online, and very easily available. Ditto sex dolls as a substitute/surrogate. It’s also more difficult to negotiate a world in which women who seemed to be saying “yes” can claim “no” ex post facto, and the world will almost automatically take her side. Divorce is so ubiquitous as to be a serious consideration whenever a marriage is contemplated.

But we’re not talking so much about marriage, although that’s down, too, in Japan. We’re talking about sex.

Another phenomenon that’s not mentioned as often—but which I was thinking about the other day—is the chilling effect near-constant sexual stimulation can have. Chilling effect, you might ask? Wouldn’t it be the opposite?

Not always. I was in the car yesterday and happened to pass a young woman walking her dog. As I drove up on her from behind, I noticed (could not help but notice, really) that “behind” was quite literal in this case, because she had on tights of a shiny light material that clutched her hindquarters and revealed everything even more clearly than if she’d been walking down the street naked. She was young and had a nice figure, and she looked like a spotlight was shining on her butt saying “Look at me! Look at me!” It was literally glowing.

And that was rather mild, really, compared to what one sees every single day on the main street of just about every town in America. I contemplated how that would feel if I were a guy, having to constantly damp down my reactivity and arousal in order to not be in a constant state of turmoil. It’s certainly possible (and necessary, really) to do it, but couldn’t one of the costs (for some people, anyway) of the continual damping down be a difficulty in considering sex sufficiently pressing to brave the slings and arrows of actual real-life relationships?

[NOTE: Why this shying away from sex should be happening to such a particular degree in Japan is a question I cannot answer.]

66 Responses to “Young Japanese find that sex is scary”

  1. n.n Says:

    birth control, so the risk of pregnancy was higher. Abortion was illegal

    Scary as in responsibility. Girls and boys just want to have fun.

  2. neo-neocon Says:

    n.n:

    Actually, it can be scary in other ways, too. I didn’t go into that, because I didn’t want to make this a tome, but sex itself is scary if you’re inexperienced (even if you’re experienced sometimes). Will I know what to do? Will I do it “right”? Am I attractive enough? Will she (or he) laugh at me? Will it be a good experience, physically and emotionally?

  3. Daniel in Brookline Says:

    I contemplated how that would feel if I were a guy, having to constantly damp down my reactivity and arousal in order to not be in a constant state of turmoil. It’s certainly possible (and necessary, really) to do it, but couldn’t one of the costs (for some people, anyway) of the continual damping down be a difficulty in considering sex sufficiently pressing to brave the slings and arrows of actual real-life relationships?

    You’re not wrong. But it’s not necessarily anything new.

    Boys are taught that, no matter how revealing or alluring a woman’s outfit is, you keep your hands to yourself! (Even staring is dangerous… and so guys learn to, as the saying goes, look while trying not to look like they’re looking.)

    So we keep our hands to ourselves… while the outfits get more and more daring. This has been going on for a while.

    Personally, I find a much more serious issue is the other tendency you mentioned — for a “yes” to become “no” after the fact, even months or years later. This is very dangerous, and not in the way the “rape culture” folks allege. If this isn’t taken care of, right quick — say, by harshly punishing false accusers of rape — then Japan’s present is our future. Already Glenn Reynolds and Helen Smith write about “men on strike”… and the complaints from women about how “good men are hard to find” have never been louder.

    When a woman can punish a man because SHE changes her mind about consensual sex, then this becomes a game some men will simply opt not to play. (Ironically, a by-now-standard feminist trope — that a percentage of men are rapists, like a small dish of cookies, one of which is poisoned — works all too well in the opposite direction. Men know that some percentage of young women will say “yes” to them now, but destroy their lives later… and, since the system condones this, we don’t even know what the percentages are.)

    No doubt this feels empowering to young women now. But they won’t like where this road leads them.

  4. j e Says:

    The two most important elements in this cultural transformation (in which women are the principal losers) are the cultural revolution which began two generations ago and exalts all forms of personal freedom and individual expression as sacrosanct (economic freedom and religious liberty, not so much) and the advent of digital technology, even more pervasive in daily life in Japan than here.

  5. parker Says:

    I can enjoy seeing pretty young women in revealing outfits, but feel no attraction or desire. It gets easier to appreciate their allure without arousal as one ages and becomes deeper in love with the one they have been with for decades.

    I realize we (Mrs parker and I) are an exception these days, but our kids are all married and have been married to their spouses long enough to know that they too are in deeply committed relationships.

  6. Ann Says:

    About fewer marriages taking place in Japan — the next-to-last line in that linked article is this: “The growing trend was attributed to less social pressure to marry as well as financial worries.”

    Contemporary Japan isn’t all that far away from the days when arranged marriage was the norm. It still happens, but on a much smaller scale. So many young folks are all on their own now, and maybe that’s way too scary for them to handle.

    Also, maybe part of the reluctance to engage in sex without marriage is because they want it to be connected with, you know, actual love for someone, which they equate with marriage.

  7. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Happened to be at a public beach some time ago when the weather was not quite beach weather. There were two casual volleyball games, each having three or four young men and the same for young women.
    The guys were in board shorts and long-sleeve tees and the young women in two-piece swim suits.
    Out where the wind was stronger and cooler, three women dressed in various jackets, like the rest of us, dropped their jackets and were walking around in two-pieces.
    I could hear them thinking, Objectify me, dammit. I’m not putting up with this crap for nothing.
    That’s a stupid thing to think, but does anybody have anything else?

  8. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    I think neo gets close to a fuller explanation with, “we wanted to marry (both men and women, for the most part), because marriage was the entree into officially approved sex and adult life, as well as children and a better standard of living and a social life that revolved around coupledom.”

    And Ann with “maybe part of the reluctance to engage in sex without marriage is because they want it to be connected with, you know, actual love for someone, which they equate with marriage.”

    What’s greatly declined in the West and perhaps never really existed in Japanese culture is the societal, cultural expectation of what I’ll call “romantic intimacy” as an essential fulfillment of adulthood. In the West children grew up expecting that finding your ‘soul mate’ and creating a life together was the apotheosis in achieving a meaningful relationship with a partner. Someone who come what may, “had your back” against all the vicissitudes life might throw at one.

    ‘Chick flicks’ from Cinderella to (arguably) Gone with the Wind to Sleepless in Seattle are all about a woman and man finding that special someone whose happiness is more important to us than is our own.

    Someone once pointed out that an unexpected consequence of the Pill is that getting pregnant and having a baby is now all on the woman. That men have no responsibility since they have no say and women can easily protect themselves from pregnancy. How common I can’t say but my impression is that a high percentage of young men no longer feel an obligation “to do the right thing”.

    75% of black children are fatherless and whites are catching up. Abandoning former cultural taboos has had a profoundly negative, still evolving effect. Fatherless is the single factor most statistically connected to criminality. Hispanics might seem to disprove that factor but criminality is expected in a corrupt culture that doesn’t embrace the rule of law.

  9. John Guilfoyle Says:

    Just for the record…and to celebrate how hard my wife has to work to put up with me…Mrs Guilfoyle & I recorded our 28th wedding anniversary on Sunday.

    I cannot describe how deeply grateful to God I am for her every day of my life. And as father to 3 daughters, how hard I pray for each of them & their prospective husbands whoever they are and whenever they arrive on the scene.

  10. Chris Says:

    Parker at 4:20 PM

    “I can enjoy seeing pretty young women in revealing outfits, but feel no attraction or desire. It gets easier to appreciate their allure without arousal as one ages and becomes deeper in love with the one they have been with for decades.”

    You know, the reason I rarely comment here is because by the time I read all of the comments someone else has expressed my own thoughts better than I could. Thank you Parker, at 65 years of age and after 42 years of marriage to the best person I’ve ever known, those are my thoughts exactly.

  11. parker Says:

    Chris,

    You are welcome. It will be 48 for us come August 13.

    Growing up on a farm with cows, pigs, sheep, and chickens sex was well understood. So farm kids, male and female, knew about sex and it wasn’t scary but those teenage fumbling were akward at first. I had 2 full sexual affairs before I met the love at first sight love of my life. She was a 21 year old virgin who was more than ready to ‘do it’ after a couple of dates but insisted I had to ask her parents for her hand in marriage.

    What a lifetime partner she has been. I remind her every anniversary that I get to die first.

  12. neo-neocon Says:

    parker; Chris; John Guilfoyle:

    What you describe is a wonderful thing, and those who are in a marriage like that are greatly blessed.

  13. n.n Says:

    Scary, yes. Angry, yes. There is a generational pattern of rebellion. Denigrating individual dignity (e.g. female chauvinism, [class] diversity) didn’t help. Debasing human life (e.g. abortion rites, clinical cannibalism) didn’t help. Establishing a Pro-Choice Church, selective, opportunistic, and unprincipled, is forcing a dysfunctional convergence. Perhaps a Dodo Dynasty.

  14. n.n Says:

    What was the effect of liberating women’s sexuality by the likes of humanitarian pornographers, social liberals, female chauvinists, and abortion activists?

    You would think that Slut Walks would stimulate recruitment. Instead, it seems to cause men to look, touch, and invest their lives with someone else.

  15. huxley Says:

    As a young man I remember how crazy I was for sex when I was around young women. I did feel like I was pushing down my impulses so hard, I could barely even think about making advances lest I lose control and do horror to the girl or otherwise humiliate myself.

    Once I got past that I found sexual relationships to be an unending source of melodrama where I was always one step behind the curve. I could never figure out what the woman wanted and how to take care of her. Then I got dumped.

    The last woman I was with neglected to tell me she had Hep-C until three weeks after we began relations. Fortunately I wasn’t infected, but I was not amused.

    I’m a decent guy with decent prospects, but I am not an uber-rich alpha male. Maybe it was bad luck. Maybe I’m another stupid guy who doesn’t get women and deserved whatever happened.

    For the record my GFs were all artistic, progressive types in Boston and San Francisco. Maybe I deserved what I got.

    I don’t know. Maybe I’ll try again. But it’s a complicated, complicated business.

    If the Japanese guys can’t figure it either, I don’t blame them. I don’t know what goes on with Japanese women.

  16. huxley Says:

    I am struck that the Japanese are an enormously fastidious people with a grave concern about being shamed.

    Sex is about the most unfastidious human activity with endless opportunities for shame.

    The math is not hard.

  17. neo-neocon Says:

    huxley:

    I find women unfathomable a lot of the time, and I’m a woman.

    Men can be very difficult, but they tend to be quite fathomable most of the time.

    I don’t envy men, having to deal with women in the romance department.

  18. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Looking back half a century, the best relationships I had with women were after we’d been doing something else for a while. That would be class, employment, clubs, projects, etc.
    You see the other person as he or she really is, or at least closer to the actual person in varied circumstances. It’s different from when you’re both ON for a date or something.

  19. Mike K Says:

    “Men know that some percentage of young women will say “yes” to them now, but destroy their lives later…”

    The same applies to divorce, I have a nephew who is just beginning that long hard road. His wife is “dating” a bartender and he has three small children. I know she will use the children and I feel for him.

    I am frankly not that surprised at men’s reluctance to marry. Now, even sex is risky. I am astonished at 25 year old school teachers having sex with 14 year old boys. Every boy’s fantasy until you read about a few that got pregnant.

    They are crazy ! What is going on ?

  20. Yankee Says:

    As a man, I like watching attractive young women, especially in the summer months, with a higher percentage of them in shorts or leggings or other skimpy attire. No complaints there.

    With women, flirting and teasing is good, as are shared experiences and bonding through companionship and activities, all as a build-up to more intimate matters, if that decision is made. Too much exposure to porn can have a dulling effect, and lead to unrealistic expectations.

    And in Maine, it’s completely legal for women to go around topless, if they so choose. I have seen some young free-spirited types whip their tops off on a couple of occasions. (This is rare, and only occurs in crowds with other women and LGBT types.)

  21. neo-neocon Says:

    Yankee:

    See this.

  22. Artfldgr Says:

    The men your referring to are Japanese Herbivore men.. (they are sometimes confused with MGTOW)…I guess in japan i would be Otaku (gai jin (which is not really a nice term)) – Geek.

    But as England did to some degree japan tolerates quirky strange personalities and habits more than the west (and lots of other things a lot less). My son was stationed in Sasebo at one point.

    And being a herbivore has nothing to do with eating meat. “soushoku danshi” (and MGTOW have similarities (and psychology today academics didnt know what they were talking about at all in the articles – trying to make people hostile rather than actually understanding).

    the thing is that its the same issue in other countries including the US… HYPERGAMY and feminism… all the things neo listed are suffused and approved and pushed and all that by ladies, with men bowing out given this is the third generation

    England is having the same problem so is the USA and this time its not bouncing back. the only discussions are gynocentric and from that angle.

    from wiki:

    Japanese women might be further discouraging men from entering into romantic relationships. The decision that many herbivore men make to stop working, because marriage and work in Japan are so inter-related, may have made it more difficult for these Japanese men to find marriage. Many women refuse men who do not have steady jobs (such as freeters and NEETs). Other women feel that self-proclaimed sōshoku-kei danshi (herbivore men) are weak and not masculine, while some men apparently are not attracted to “independent” women.

    Dont like strong independent women, educated women, etc… but what the researchers been finding out is that the women are hypergamous and so, do not want to marry men who are beneath them. they will marry up, but they wont marry down.

    there are lots of articles on the demographic collapse, including some even second guessing feminisms creation of such one sided (6 out of 10 and rising) education, that unless the guys are really good looking for short term early life/career fun, they really really dont like “nice guys”…

    now they have found and complained of “yellow fever” in the west where the men who were boring and not the best looking are A1 partners of foreign ladies.

    but then there are the people who grew up in single mother homes and or saw her put dad through a blender and all manner of things that are atrocious but normal (including a very one sided court system thats been one sided for decades)

    with education taken away, hypergamous ladies, losing your property even if your married short term (yeah, paul mcartneys ex earned that one), losing kids, career, false accusations (in one case now in england they finally are putting an attention whore (judges words), to jail for falsely accusing 15 men in 5 years, with one serving two years in prison), and in general as a male society not siding fairly to the point of…
    here it comes…

    that mgtow was born, herbivore men were born, and others… these are men who feel that they no longer need to work to out earn their own needs to provide for others (especially unappreciative others). its MUCH safer and easier to just earn for yourself, life low maintenance and really live like a king in a very nice world… men often can live a subsistence reality happily, given that when they provide, they mostly do without anyway!

    herbivores see the ladies as demanding, wanting and forcing them to work, organizing their lives, taking away things they like, not respecting them, and on and on..

    any one see the recent aflac commercial? you know, where the son hit dad in the face with a baseball bat and mom and kid are happy that aflac means they can still go to disney and they are happy and couldnt give a rats ass about him (to some odd surprise and acceptance)..

    well these commercials are not just in the US, i have seen similar ones targeted by NGOs in asia doing similarly.

    on the bottom of the wiki is MGTOW (created by yours truly and a few others first at a forum called mancoat… i never really thought it would catch on and didnt think it was ultimately a good thing, but understandable given the “WAR of the sexes” socialist ladies called for under feminism, and the no way to win (ie. come out good), so disentanglement is the response tactically

    to participate and try is to make it worse
    to fight it, is to become what the ladies say men are, and so, no one wants to prove that.

    ultimately, disentanglement and avoidance is the safest best bet. you get to define your life, do what you want, do not get to work in the honey do patch, and all that. and who cares if you dont have kids, there is a good chance they will go away and not like you anyway.. (is the feeling of it)

    and the idea is that nature will fix itself, the idiots that did this and thought this was good, end up not having children and so, the smartest women are not represented in the future generations (that was one article from the UK commenting on this same thing)

    and otaku Hikikomori like aspergers and others who withdraw from more than the herbivores do having almost no friends

    [not to be confused with the old people who die and get mummified as their bills are autopaid and no one bothers with them for years till they are found]

    go here and its same reasons but wrapped differently
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way

    Hikikomori
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

    Herbivore men
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men#Potential_causes

    im friends with some online in a game i play..

    oh, and in japan failure to launch is parasite single
    🙂

    you can find posts online, reddit, etc
    from reddit (and cut for size)

    I am Japanese guy from Osaka, lived in Japan for 18 years and 12 in the U.S, and I am here to tell my story as a MGTOW Japanese male
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    I’m 30, went MiG at age 10, and the reason for my conscious decision and declaration is because at age 3, my mother ran off with another higher status man (doctor) while a student in the U.S. I guess she wanted someone more admirable than my blue collar worker father (Japanese American), so she abandoned my older sisters and I out of the blue. She came back a few years later however, sued for custody, won, and took all of us back to Japan. I never forgave her for that as it destroyed my father, and my trust in women, hence my vow to never marry.

    each generation of feminism made the later generations worse forgetting that!! early ones were ladies dumping dads (while the mantra was dads dropping moms for new wives – given alimony, child support, and impugned salaries…)

    the next genration was mine, where there was still enough of the old and enough people from whole intact families… but now, these werent mostly children of two parent families that divorced. these were children of divorce marrying each other, and marrying those from families. laws gave more favor, left got more militant (in japan, korea, and now even in china and all over if you care to look even in islam).

    this current generation is like my son, and others. from successful mothers the boys learned they have no place… from unsuccessful mothers, the boys learned the ladies make very bad choices (want to be with one?)… from the other messes, there was nothing worth it coming out of it, and we are on year 30 or more on the idea that dad and wmales are really idiots.

    continued…

  23. Les Says:

    Lately, the song “This Is All I Ask” has been wispily floating through my mind (though I’m a little past my prime). Passing by an attractive girl, a well dressed woman, I admire and wonder, if I was younger, how good the the music we could make together would be. But age has taught me that the most attractive part of a woman is her mind and with a woman with a wonderful mind, the music would be sublime.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdquTQYybAQ

  24. DNW Says:

    What do women desire? They desire to be desired.

    It’s been said here before. And before that elsewhere.

  25. parker Says:

    Don’t cast too many stones neo and other females that read/comment on this blog; but long ago I discovered what females want. They want to dance, so dance with them. They wanter to be flattered, so flatter them. They want to be pursued, so chase. The want men to be strong, decisive, and gentle. Do it. And above all else tell them you are aroused by their (natural) scent. That last one was a clincher with Mrs parker. On our second date I asked to smell her armpits and that sealed the deal.

  26. Artfldgr Says:

    i have been reading their complaints and answering and writing articles on them since my son was a kid and crazy mom… but its all over the world, and all the same kind of complaints or angles or views…

    8 Reasons Why Japanese Men are Becoming Herbivores
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIo98boSJNE

    in many ways the limits of human condition make them repeat and say the same things in many languages…

    a bit more of that reddit post

    This is what I’ve been noticing a lot in the west since I have moved here. Many men find a woman, get their heart ripped out, realize that they could be ruined for life, and then go their own way. I can completely sympathize as my family was destroyed by my mother, whom I despise.
    She was the kind of person who grew up with everything, but was happy with nothing.
    She was the person who wanted it all for the price of naught.
    She thought she was everything, while in reality worth nothing.
    This is what I call “entitled princess disorder”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/4gyhf7/japan_and_my_story_as_a_japanese_mgtow/

    he goes on to say the same things in the herbivore posts, the post wwii, the ladies, the lack of war.. but mostly, the lack of appreciation…

    Growing in Japan, I never got the sense of men being appreciated in any masculine role, nor did I see any basic virtue in anything traditional. This was especially true in school when all the popular boys looked like girls, and relatively muscular people like me were considered “scary”. It’s not that I’m muscular compared to white men, it’s just that many of the men have become stick figured weenies since the romance and majesty of the samurai warrior is long gone.

    you can hear this same EMASCULATION speech from around the world..

    one article:
    Will Swedish Men Rediscover Their Balls Before Sweden Becomes A Matriarchal Hellhole?

    Dark lands: the grim truth behind the ‘Scandinavian miracle’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/scandinavian-miracle-brutal-truth-denmark-norway-sweden
    Ask the Finns and they will tell you that Swedish ultra-feminism has emasculated their men, but they will struggle to drown their sorrows. Their state-run alcohol monopoly stores, the dreaded Systembolaget, were described by Susan Sontag as “part funeral parlour, part back-room abortionist”.,\

    I can give you examples in every western country that has feminism running high.

    and i have been warning and ringing the bell for ages. but now its too late. after all, for every smart woman in college that doesnt ahve kids, another woman not in college has to have 5, so bringing in islam will replace the men with what? the men are not even putting up a fight in most western non ex soviet states

    Commediennes have shows about it
    Steve Harvey And The “Emasculation of Asian Men”

    ultimately the rationalization for each of the societies sounds the same too.. in the herbivores the party line of the pc feminists is that there are no more samurai, etc.

    but the Finns say, they had the nazis and the russians stalin to contend with…

    same story rewrapped for each and the focus is on the other cause its strange and exotic and you dont notice the same thing in your backyard.

    and there are now tons of articles coming out that mirror the russians when they found out their popujlation collapsed (others are trying to pay women to have babies much as hilter tried for slightly different reasons.. yes slightly, sanger, and rudin, and others admired each others work)

    in this one, the feminist tries to convince ladies to throw away their hypergamous ways like those little glasses of harveys bristol cream i guess
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/ms-graduate-shouldn-t-be-so-fussy-in-love-7mnfp9gs9

    Shortage of eligible men has left women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say

    A dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say.

    The first global study into egg freezing found that shortages of eligible men were the prime reason why women had attempted to take matters into their own hands.

    Experts said “terrifying” demographic shifts had created a “deficit” of educated men and a growing problem of “leftover” professional women, with female graduates vastly outnumbering males in in many countries.

    sis is going for her next degree.
    i dont have any despite bronx science
    they had to dump some boys to make room for girls, they didnt make new schools, did they? now the pesky ladies all over the world who went to college want the very very few men who did too

    above, they vreeze their eggs waiting for a man that will never come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and yes, in japan too.
    Japanese city helps women freeze eggs to boost birth rate – BBC News

    Japan’s $1m fertility gambit to help women become mothers

    egg-freezing – The Japan Times

    More Japanese women freeze eggs and put their careers first |[except the princeton study found out that wasnt the reason, that was the lie that made us ignore the reason!!!!!!!!!!!]

    Eggs of woman in 20s frozen in Urayasu in Japan’s first city-funded program

    Under the first such program in Japan subsidized by a local government to address the nation’s low birthrate, a hospital in Chiba Prefecture has frozen the eggs of a woman in her 20s to preserve them for future pregnancy, the hospital said. Juntendo University …

    there is TONS more…
    but i have gone over the limit
    despite keeping my mouth shut for weeks

  27. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    Parker, I certainly agree with your earlier comment.
    My wife and I have been married for over 40 years, but only 25 to each other 🙂
    What women want is to be talked to.
    That’s what I discovered hanging out with a friend who didn’t look handsome by any stretch and yet always had women available to him.
    I was a nerd in High School and yet my prom date was later Miss Michigan. No one else was brave enough to ask her.
    I lost my fear of women then, only to regain it later when I realized how many scary women there were who looked so “normal” or even hot.
    Becoming a Christian and dating women I met in church alleviated a lot of concern.

  28. CW Says:

    What a shame. Life with the right spouse is deeply rewarding for all kinds of reasons. Something is definitely amiss in Japan.

  29. parker Says:

    “gone over the limit”

    If you can’t keep under 200 words, you have gone over the limit. Premature ejactulation is the term that comes to mind, given the subject.

  30. parker Says:

    Ed

    Its alwayts about where you are today.

  31. Richard Saunders Says:

    neo The reason women are dressing as you and others have described is simple – display. Human beings are one of the few speeches in which females display. Not in all cultures or at all times, but in general, males display to attract females, not the other way around.

    Female display in humans is related to the availability of men. In the Old West, for example, the ratio of men to women was such that generally, even prostitutes wore long sleeves and dresses. When the supply of men was severely depleted after WWI, the short, revealing dresses of the Flagger Age were worn.

    What has happened is the Sexual Revolution. As you said, marriage was the requirement for sex. In today’s world, there is no incentive for men to marry.

    In pre-Sexual Revolution times, it was “You want nooky? Go hunt the wooly mammoth! Keep the sabre-tooths from the cave! Keep the other tribes from stealing us! Then you get nooky!” Today, men don’t even have to pay for dinner to have sex.

    Also, there is the increasing acceptability of open and active homosexuality.

    Thus, the number of men who are in the marriage pool is smaller than it was in the ’50s and ’60s. Listen to single women in the 25-35 age group and you will often hear “My boyfriend just won’t commit!” or “Where do you find a good man today?”

    Ergo, more female display.

    The Sexual Revolution has been ruinous for women. The most pernicious aspect of feminism has been convincing women that marriage is an institution imposed by men to oppress women. Marriage, women are learning to their regret, is an institution invented by women to corral men.

  32. Richard Saunders Says:

    “species” not “speeches” — damn spellcheck!

  33. parker Says:

    The problen for young (under 40) women is thee are not enough men who are willing to skydive into the feninist mine field.

  34. parker Says:

    The problen for young (under 40) women is there are not enough men who are willing to skydive into the feninist mine field.

  35. Artfldgr Says:

    Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores.

    Comments are telling:

    Typical attitude is to dump it off on men, lay responsibility on men. What they fail to mention is that Japanese men aren’t really looking for fun. They want to frame it like men aren’t good enough or worthy enough of a woman. But they don’t address the other side of the story.

    Men don’t want a relationship with women. Women aren’t women anymore. Men in Japan are expected to work 70 hour work weeks to pay for a person that doesn’t cook, clean, or do much of anything. And that’s supposed to be appealing?

    You’ll find that most men are happy with a lower income, especially when they don’t have to spend EVERY F~~~ING DIME they have on women. Hell, as long as they’re happy, that’s what matters. And like always, a strong female bias to shame men into line. If 70% of men aren’t married, and the women are complaining about it, maybe it’s the men that walked away from it all?

    ‘A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle’ – Patricia Irene (Irina) Dunn

    Tune in, Turn On, Drop out… -TL

    Death Spiral Demographics: The Countries Shrinking The Fastest
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2017/02/01/death-spiral-demographics-the-countries-shrinking-the-fastest/#69723e40b83c
    The main problem is the very low fertility rate of the EU’s superpower, which according to United Nations data was 1.4 between 2010 and 2015. It takes a fertility rate of 2.1% to replace your own population so we can expect Germany to shrink as well as get very old.

    [so they are importing non feminist high birth replacements… i guess women werent the future]

    Today the estimates of the country’s fertility rate run from 1.2 to 1.6, both well below the 2.1 replacement rate. By 2050 China’s population will shrink 2.5%, a loss of 28 million people. By then China’s population will have a demographic look similar to ultra-old Japan’s today — but without the affluence of its Asian neighbor.

    -=-=-=-

    To a remarkable extent, the United States has avoided these pressing demographic issues. The U.N. has the U.S. tied with Canada for the fastest projected population growth rate of any developed country: a 21% expansion by 2050. Yet this forecast could prove inaccurate.

    One threat stems from millennials who, even with an improved economy, have not started families and had children at anything close to historical rates.

    population growth is now lower than at any time since the Depression

    The United States’ high projected population growth rate, like that of Singapore, is entirely dependent upon maintaining high rates of immigration.

    yes ladies… they had to hide the decline so you would not change your minds as we went and joined the dinosaurs..

    and now you know why they are so hell bent on keeping the border open. maybe a humongous number of women who could have had babies that didnt and are never going to have families might tear them apart!!!

    we hae already reached the turning point of one population replacing the other!!! its on the census page and i did post it here.

    if you remove a brick from a wall one at a time replacing it with a new one, is the wall that remains the same wall, or a new one?

  36. AesopFan Says:

    Richard Saunders Says:
    July 10th, 2017 at 10:58 pm

    What has happened is the Sexual Revolution. As you said, marriage was the requirement for sex. In today’s world, there is no incentive for men to marry.

    The Sexual Revolution has been ruinous for women. The most pernicious aspect of feminism has been convincing women that marriage is an institution imposed by men to oppress women. Marriage, women are learning to their regret, is an institution invented by women to corral men.

    * * *
    Add to that the government penalties on building an estate that can be passed on to children, and the cultural disincentives for having children in the first place, and why would a man want to get married, unless he has a spiritual or innate desire to have a family relationship?
    There is a reason that the most significant act of God regarding his creation was the marriage of Adam and Eve.
    (42 years since our wedding, and counting…)

  37. AesopFan Says:

    And there is this…
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/07/europes-childless-leaders.php

    James McPherson, writing in the Washington Examiner, makes a remarkable observation: the leaders of Europe have no children. France’s Emmanuel Macron has none. Same with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, British prime minister Theresa May, Italian prime minister Paolo Gentilon, Holland’s Mark Rutte, Scotland’s Nicola Sturgeon, and Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission. Sweden’s prime minister Stefan Lofven has no biological children.

    The prime minister of Luxembourg is also childless. I mention him not to cherry pick, but because it means that of the six founding members of what evolved into the European Union, five are now led by childless prime ministers or presidents. As George Weigel says, this would have been unimaginable to one of the founders of modern “Europe,” Konrad Adenauer, who was the father of eight.

    It seems extremely unlikely that a Europe that valued children highly would elect childless leaders in country after country.

  38. Esther Says:

    Love my Mr. Esther, but Parker…. gotta say:-)

  39. Molly Brown Says:

    Leftism has done its best to kill God, the family, tiny humans – and now – romance. It really is a death cult!

  40. John Guilfoyle Says:

    Aesop…thanks for tagging that important fact in this thread.

    I think the childless leaders are symptomatic of a Euro-culture that has no real vision for or abiding concern for the future.

    So they do what they do & have doomed their countries.

  41. blert Says:

    Folks it’s economics.

    Marriage in Japan means MOVING OUT OF THE HOUSE — for both of them.

    THAT’S what’s sucking the wind out of marriage in Japan.

    Urban rents are astronomic in Japan.

    The only way that a young couple can make things ‘swing’ is if the parents kick in plenty of $$$$ to set them up.

    If this is not in prospect, then extended adolescence ensues.

    &&&

    A variation of this is playing out in California.

    The younger set can no longer afford a SFH within commuting distance.

    Flight cash from Red China has wholly warped real estate pricing, with Orange county and San Francisco standing out the most.

    Naturally, family formation is delayed, family size is reduced, and they end up as tenants.

    Which is bad all the way around.

  42. huxley Says:

    blert: I get that marriage is expensive in Japan (and elsewhere).

    But I don’t get:

    43 percent of people aged 18 to 34 from [Japan] say they are virgins.

    That’s something else.

  43. huxley Says:

    A friend has been saying for thirty years the most important problem facing us is the conflict between men and women.

    Which struck me at first as overwrought. But I’m coming around to his viewpoint.

    I don’t know I would characterize it as the most important problem, but it is a big one. There is something seriously out of whack between men and women these days.

  44. Tom G Says:

    “Too much” is probably more true about Japan than other places, where sex-manga comics and graphic novel soft (& hard) porn is so common one can see Japanese boys and men reading it on subways.

    This is likely to get worse before it gets better.

    The Japanese gov’t will have to make getting married and having babies MORE attractive to young people than not doing so — there are many non-free market policies for discriminating in favor of married folks and in favor of those with kids.

    At 120 million, and only slowly reducing (tho more rapidly aging), the still very populous Japanese have time to convert to a robot-production economy and what the average folk should do / be.

  45. David Foster Says:

    The late Comanche academic, Dr David Yeagley (“Bad Eagle”) wrote about a young white woman in one of his classes, who said:

    ““LOOK, DR. YEAGLEY, I don’t see anything about my culture to be proud of. It’s all nothing. My race is just nothing.”

    The girl was white. She was tall and pretty, with amber hair and brown eyes. For convenience’ sake, let’s call her “Rachel.”

    I had been leading a class on social psychology, in which we discussed patriotism – what it means to be a people or a nation. The discussion had been quite lively. But when Rachel spoke, everyone fell silent.
    “Look at your culture,” she said to me. “Look at American Indian tradition. Now I think that’s really great. You have something to be proud of. My culture is nothing.”

    “You’re not proud to be American?” I asked.
    “Oh, I’m happy to be American, but I’m not proud of how America came about.”

    Her choice of words was telling. She was “happy” to be an American. But not “proud” of it.

    On one level, I wasn’t surprised. I knew the head of our American History department at Oklahoma State University-OKC, and I recognized his hackneyed liberal jargon in Rachel’s words. She had taken one of his courses, with predictable results.

    Yet, I was still stunned. Her words disturbed and offended me in a way that I could not quite enunciate.”

    What are the odds of this woman ever having a really successful relationship…marriage, romance, or even just good sex…with a man of her own country/culture?

  46. Tatterdemalian Says:

    Nobody knows why, and nobody cares. Just call men cowardly little babies that can’t handle a strong feminist woman that thinks she has the right to consume men by the handful like M&Ms, and let the whole civilization die childless and alone.

  47. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    David Foster: I wondered where you were going with that.
    Good point.
    However, she’ll either hook up with an indian rights activist or a black radical. Or a butch.
    Sad.

  48. Rufus Firefly Says:

    Very interesting subject.

    Regarding any undue difficulty put on men by women showing a lot of skin. That’s you thinking like a woman, and it’s not how men are wired. We are very simple and basic. No matter what a woman wears, even an Amish woman in five petticoats covered by a floor length dress, we know what’s underneath. We are attracted to women. Period. End of sentence.

    And men have to learn to control their base instincts and be respectful and civilized (more on this later). Women should wear what they want, when they want. And, as I’m sure you know, women typically dress for other women, not for men.

    Men differ, but I don’t think I’m unique in preferring a woman clothed well, to a woman dressed in a halter top and hot pants, or even naked. There is a reason a few centuries of fashion design resulted in the styles civilized, Western women wore in the 1700s, 1800s and 1900s. Dresses, skirts and blouses accentuate a woman’s form. Some women have figures that look great in slacks and/or jeans, but most all will look good in a skirt, or dress, cut to fit their body shape and style. When women really want to look good at a formal occasion most know this and revert to those tried and true styles.

    For me, and I think most civilized men, clothing is a good indication, a short-hand, of what a woman’s personality and mind may be like. I’m sure women do the same, only moreso with men. It’s a uniform we choose that gives visual clues to what we are, or what we want others to think we are; formal, casual, fastidious, frugal, high maintenance, no maintenance, wealthy, poor, clean, slovenly, thoughtful, careless…

  49. Rufus Firefly Says:

    Regarding men learning to control their base instincts; I believe this is a vital function of women in Western society, and many are not doing a good job. Without women taking a strong role in society, especially in mothering sons, Western, 1st world civilization would likely not endure.

    Boys will naturally mimic their fathers. (And an absence of fathers in many Western families is an enormous, societal problem.) But without a woman devoted to raising them most boys will fail to mature properly. In that process they also see their father treating a woman with respect, and as an equal. My kids know I would give my life to protect their mother, and their mother would give her life to protect them. That simple, basic, fundamental dynamic is very important, especially in a young man’s development.

    I never understood why so many feminists fail to see the immense power women already wield in Western society. No matter what generation we were raised in, most all of us would say we were raised in homes where women held immense power. Power and control over how many children would be in the family, how the family finances would be allocated, how the children would be educated, whether a religion would be practiced in the home, how events like birthdays and holidays would be celebrated, what social events would take place in and out of the home, what the home would even look like!

    It’s unfair, but it’s how most of us are hard-wired. If a woman does not demand respect, she will have no problem finding men willing to take advantage of her. Strong women insisting on fair treatment for themselves and their offspring are the glue that holds western civilization together. This is a big component of the Sarah Palin effect when she was elevated to the national stage. She was like an instant litmus test on how well women understood their own femininity. She was everything feminists said a woman should be; she was more successful in her career than her husband, ran her own business, held positions of power over men as a Mayor and Governor, had a family, was very involved in her kids’ lives, was athletic, trained daily… Yet most feminists hated her.

    Sarah Palin is easy on the eyes, but what is really most attractive about her to most men is what an amazing mother and wife she is. All that, hockey mom protecting her brood stuff. Mrs. Firefly is an outstanding wife and partner, but I learned very early after having our first child that she would slit my throat in a heartbeat if I came between her and our kids. And I loved her all the more for seeing that attitude. Men are attracted to women. Real women. And feminists know, in their hearts, that a woman like Sarah Palin is an actual, real woman and that is why they hate her. They cannot compete with her, so they try to destroy her, and others like her.

    Women are the true pillars of modern, Western civilization. Gavin McInness makes a good point in his typical, crude manner. But it’s a good point. Women can create life and feed it. Literally create actual life and nurture it. It’s like a superpower! Women are already superior to men, yet somehow many have convinced themselves they would be better if they were like men.

    We need women. Desperately. Women being true, honest women will heal our families.

  50. neo-neocon Says:

    Rufus Firefly:

    I may be a woman, but I’ve been interacting with men my entire life, and although yes, men can be attracted to a woman wearing covered-up clothing, they are also much more turned on in an immediate way by women wearing skimpy and provocative clothing.

    I wouldn’t think I’d have to state that. But the evidence is everywhere. Suffice to say that strippers and pole dancers do not ordinarily wear Amish dresses.

  51. neo-neocon Says:

    David Foster:

    I know plenty of women who think like that and have no problem whatsoever having good relationships with men (or a man) of their culture.

    They also have no intention of leaving this country to live elsewhere, by the way.

  52. Rufus Firefly Says:

    I meant no offense by my statement. Hopefully none was taken. It’s hard to tell in the sterility of a weblog sometimes.

    Yes, most men are visual and the more obvious the vision in front of our eyes, the more primal the reaction, sort-of.

    But my point was more about men exercising self-control and supressing urges. It takes no less self-control to not molest a group of women dressed in Victorian formal attire than it does to not molest a Collegiate, Co-ed swim team. Men have to be taught how to behave, and to not use their physical force to dominate women.

    As an example, I don’t agree with the Muslim refugees who claim they assumed they could molest women in Western Europe becasue the women were not “covered.” I thinnk they assume they can molest Western women because they do not respect them.

    We are not animals, We have free will. We are not dogs in heat. Civilized men learn to respect women and only participate in mutually consensual physical activities with them. Uncivilized men will behave abominably, no matter how women clothe themselves.

  53. neo-neocon Says:

    Rufus Firefly:

    I certainly wasn’t offended.

    But you may have misunderstood my comment. Let me explain further.

    I never suggested most men would have trouble surpressing their sexual urges when a very provocatively-dressed woman walks down the street. But the more overtly provocative the dress (at least, if the woman is attractive, and plenty of them are) the more effort is required.

    When men are constantly provoked in an overt way and must damp down those kind of urges almost every minute of every day, over time it probably takes more to arouse them in normal life when they are with a woman in an intimate situation. When I was a girl, women dressed far more modestly, and if a guy saw a naked breast it was VERY exciting. So a woman didn’t have to do all that much to be arousing to her man. Nowadays, I keep reading that a lot more is often required, if you know what I mean.

  54. Mac Says:

    Or, to put it another way: more skin more often means that men become jaded. And pornography makes them (us) *really* jaded. I ran across a striking, might-have-been-shocking-if-it-didn’t-seem-so-inevitable, acronym the other day: PIED. Google it along with a word like “sex” or “porn” (to filter out definitions of the word “pied”).

  55. arfldgr Says:

    what should “most worry Sweden’s neighbors,” the Danish editors wrote, is the Swedes’ “unwillingness to openly and honestly discuss the government-approved multicultural idyll. … In the long run, the mendacity that characterizes the Swedish debate cannot be maintained. The discrepancy between the official, idealized version of Sweden, ‘the people’s home,’ and the brutal reality that everyone can see has simply become too great.”
    Indeed. This is a country where rapes by Muslim men are systematically ignored by the authorities or responded to with minimal punishment.
    Routinely, Swedish courts refuse to return these monsters – some of whom have repeatedly subjected small boys and girls to violent sexual abuse – to their home countries for fear that they’ll be put in danger. In other words, Swedish judges care more about the safety of foreign rapists than that of Swedish children.
    (No wonder U.S. News and World Report has just named Sweden the best country in the world to be an immigrant. Yet another cockeyed ranking. The proper question isn’t which country is best for immigrants, but which country has the most sensible immigration policy.)
    It’s a country where even prominent Swedish feminists – fanatical boosters of multiculturalism – are now moving out of Muslim-heavy neighborhoods not only because of the Muslim rapists but because of the Muslim “morality police,” who are less concerned with monitoring rapists than with controlling women’s conduct. (One such feminist organized “coffee shop meetings” with Muslim male community leaders in an attempt to resolve the situation, but gave up.)
    It’s a country where the government rolls out the red carpet for returning ISIS members, giving them special benefits, in hopes that they’ll see the light and put down their weapons.
    It’s a country where, while Muslim rapists and terrorists are forgiven, critics of immigrant conduct are punished. In May, a 70-year-old woman in Dalarna, Sweden, was arrested for writing on Facebook in 2015 about immigrants who “set cars on fire and urinate and defecate in the streets.” (She faces up to four years in prison.)
    No surprise, then, that on July 7, Jyllands-Posten reported that the Swedish government plans to alter the nation’s Constitution in such a way as to give itself the power to limit online free speech about precisely these ticklish matters. Among other things, wrote Jyllands-Posten, it will become illegal “for certain websites to publicize information about private persons’ ethnicity or conviction of crimes.”

  56. arfldgr Says:

    Mac Says lots of stuff
    but accepts the feminist blame its his fault

    yeah… well, post feminism pornography took off as a career choice for women and even job day at work

    slut walks, etc.

    no, the guys are not marrying cuase they dont like that stuff, and the women are not worth being with and are bad moms cause they do like that stuff and other things and will without limits, do random damage.

    worst part? you cant tell them apart… is it a good one, a bad one, a good one gone bad, etc?

    not worth the risk.
    much cheaper to buy a strange woman a house
    pay for a surrogate to have a kid they cant take
    etc

  57. Rufus Firefly Says:

    neo,

    You’re right. It looks like I did misunderstand your initial point. Sort-of. I don’t feel qualified to opine on whether frequent over exposure to female flesh desensitizes most men. It seems like a sound hypothesis. The corollary seems true for most human sensations. But, I haven’t looked at pornography since I figured out how to socialize with real, live women (sometime in my early teens), so I can’t speak from personal experience. Although I don’t recall ever wishing for less of interacting with real, live women in my bachelor days, no matter the level of exposure.

    So, I don’t disagree with you on that point, but I do disagree with the proposition that there is an inverse relationship to the amount of clothing a woman wears and the amount of restraint required by a man to be civil and decent. I don’t know if you like candy bars, but if you do this analogy may work. If you’re hungry and your favorite candy bar is in front of you, and you’re trying to control your caloric intake and avoid sweets does it matter if the candy bar is wrapped or unwrapped? I doubt it does. What matters is that there is a candy bar in the room with you. You either learn to control your urges, or you don’t.

    And, as someone touched on earlier, there are other queues that most women learn how to convey that are much more powerful than clothing; body language, scent, tone of voice.

  58. Rufus Firefly Says:

    And, regarding your reference to strippers and pole dancers. Yes, it’s almost impossible for a man’s head not to swivel if there is an attractive, scantily clad woman in the periphery, but I think women misunderstand that head swivel for attraction.

    That’s a subconscious, reflex reaction. But within one second of reflection we are likely thinking things like; “that looks like trouble,” or “she seems very high maintenance.”

    Despite our internal hard-wiring, most men figure this out, (the hot/crazy matrix) https://youtu.be/CiXJr0jLhDs
    pretty quickly.

  59. Richard Aubrey Says:

    It’s ridiculous to think women don’t make a choice when they reach into the closet. It’s not a blind, random grab.
    Hell, i do. Example. Due to an odd metabolism, I’m comfortable in winter two or even three layers less than most people when I’m outside.
    So if I’m going to be running errands in Michigan in January, I usually wear a heavy overshirt. So I’m not trying to find a seatbelt in a mound of insulation, not taking something off and putting it on. I have a couple of handy pockets. I usually don’t take it off indoors. It may be a hundred yard walk from my far to the market. No problem
    But I sometimes wonder if people will think I’m showing off. Yeah, they might, but I’m not giving up my convenience because of that.
    Point is, even I, over seventy years of age, can’t help but think of the public impression, even if I don’t act on it.
    So a good looking your woman chooses to show this or that amount of her body, more, or less. Tighter, higher, lower. Are we supposed to think she’s entirely innocent of any thought of what people are going to think when they see her?

  60. huxley Says:

    Rufus: You don’t speak for this male’s experience.

    I remember as a young man walking down Daytona Beach near the Main St. pier crowded with bikini’ed sunbathers and the barrage of bare female flesh would leave me feeling exhausted afterward.

    Maybe I’m unusually visual and highly sexed. I don’t know. But age is the only thing which has helped with that.

  61. Rufus Firefly Says:

    Ha! That’s some great, imagery, huxley! I do recall feelings of exhaustion and confusion when I was young and in social situations where there were a lot of young women, but that would happen to me even if it was November in Chicago and they were wearing thick sweaters and corduroys!

    Yes, I don’t speak for all men’s nature, but I do think most women greatly misunderstand men’s wiring and motivation.

  62. Mac Says:

    huxley 5:54pm: ha!–I know exactly what you’re talking about.

    There came a point as I got older (and very married) where I really just sort of wished they would go away or put some clothes on, since they were just winding me up to no purpose.

  63. neo-neocon Says:

    Rufus Firefly:

    Plenty of men never figure out that matrix. Or, at least, their bodies don’t figure it out and it can be an effort to override that. Especially young men, which is the group I’m talking about here.

    I’m not a man, but I’m certainly not ignorant of them.

  64. huxley Says:

    Rufus: Sure. I can get turned on around women in heavy sweaters and dungarees. Sure.

    But man, if they take off the sweaters and dungarees for bikinis, it’s whole ‘nother ball game.

    I haven’t thought about this in years. But now that I think about it, I remember avoiding beaches, pools and strip joints, because I didn’t like getting “wound-up” as Mac says.

    I remember a 70s tv commercial for milk I hated because all of a sudden I was looking at a beautiful woman in a bikini who had just dived into a pool and then surfaced with a magnificent set of knockers staring right into my eyes.

    Well. I’ve said too much already.

  65. Ymar Sakar Says:

    The media fake news has been talking about these with Japan for quite some time. It’s how they process the data, but it isn’t an accurate interpretation or the only one.

  66. Ymar Sakar Says:

    There was a show about the Amish, they took some Amish youth who was going voluntarily outside of the commune/village, to see the world. This is a traditional Amish filtering out as they only accept volunteers (not indoctrinated cult boys like the Left does) into the village, they don’t want people who wan to leave. Those that want to leave for the world, are free and even encouraged to do so, as it maintains civic order.

    So these Youth are out in some kind of history/reality tv show recording them, and the young men are on the beach and they see some bikini clad women. They get fixated on that and the commentary goes on as usual about this. What I found interesting was the reaction of the young woman. She said that she felt sympathy or pity for the young men, because they have to control their instincts and urges with all these visual stimuli. And that women should take care not to stimulate men with the visuals, because it is impolite or dangerous or risky or just causes civic problems.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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