August 15th, 2017

The Charlottesville aftermath

There was a demonstration, a counter-demonstration, and two kinds of violence. One was the clashes between the two sets of demonstrators, many of whom were ready and eager to fight. The second was a madman (albeit one with a neo-Nazi political agenda) who plowed into the crowd and killed a woman while injuring others.

When I write “madman,” I mean that he was clearly a mess and perhaps even schizophrenic:

Fields, 20, was raised by a single mom, after his dad was killed by a drunk driver shortly after he was born. His mother had called 911 twice in the past, telling officers that he had beaten her, AP reported. But when he was pulled over by police in May, he showed no signs of aggression. He was working as a security officer and was on vacation time while attending the rally. A high school teacher said that Fields had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was on medication…

Fields does not appear to have a previous criminal history.

The guy is also described as having been into neo-Nazi beliefs since high school. The portrait that emerges is a familiar one of a “troubled” young man who is more trouble just waiting to happen (Jared Loughner, anyone?). Why on earth was Fields employed as a security guard? Well, he had no criminal history; 911 calls do not a criminal history make.

In the aftermath of these dreadful events, Fields has been arrested, Trump and all his supporters are blamed as though they are responsible, and the hard left has gotten what it wants, a martyr—Heather Heyer, a lovely 32-year old woman who worked as a paralegal and was a Sanders supporter.

It appears from the facts so far that her death was a heinous murder and perhaps even a premeditated one. Fields should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, although if he really is a schizophrenic that could affect the legal proceedings. When I write that the hard left has gotten what it wants, a martyr, am I being too harsh? I don’t think so—the hard left plays hardball and knows that such things are very very useful.

I haven’t mentioned the police in this post because I still don’t have a clear picture of why they weren’t out in force and actively keeping the violence down. I don’t think their increased presence would have prevented Heyer’s death, however, although I’m not sure. But it certainly would have ramped down the more generalized violence and changed the atmosphere. Did they purposely stand down, were they just disorganized and ineffective, or what? It seems there’s one thing on which both sides can agree:

…both sides agree that one group didn’t do enough to prevent the violence as the crowds grew and tensions flared: the police…

Critics say both Charlottesville Police and Virginia State Police stood on the sidelines Saturday as skirmishes erupted between white nationalists and members of Antifa, a broad movement of left-leaning groups. The two groups confronted each other in Emancipation Park with shields and pepper spray.

It wasn’t until police declared the rally an “unlawful assembly” and Gov. Terry McAuliffe declared a state of emergency that police ordered the gathering to break up and scattered the crowds throughout the city…

Once the car plowed into the crowd, the police stepped in, Straughn said.

“I will give credit where credit is due, but I will say that was too little, too late,” he told CNN. “If the police had acted differently in the beginning of the day — before 1:42 p.m. — maybe we wouldn’t be talking about Heather Heyer right now. Maybe she would still be alive.”

According to a tweet from the ACLU of Virginia, police said they wouldn’t intervene “until given command to do so.”…

“The police actually allowed us to square off against each other,” Newsome said. “There were fights and the police were standing a block away the entire time. It’s almost as if they wanted us to fight each other.”

I think there’s enough evidence to say that the police were not doing their jobs, but the question that remains is “why not?” Conspiracy theories abound, but my personal opinion (at least so far) is incompetence and stupidity as well as wishful thinking.

A terrible situation and a terrible mess, and I believe this will not be the last time we see this sort of situation. The country is becoming a powder keg.

70 Responses to “The Charlottesville aftermath”

  1. kevino Says:

    RE: “I still don’t have a clear picture of why they weren’t out in force and actively keeping the violence down.”
    The same reason that the police were ordered to stand down at Berkley — twice. They wanted violence for the benefit of the MSM.

    The violence would have one of two results. If the alt-right lost, it would be cause for celebration. If the alt-right won or put up a good fight, the MSM has lots of video of the deplorables being violent so that they can attack President Trump for inciting violence.

    It worked as planned.

  2. physicsguy Says:

    Have to agree with everything Neo has said. They have their martyr and now they will use this poor woman for their means to an end. Does anyone remember that the guy who shot Scalise was a leftist/Democrat? Of course not.

    Powder keg indeed with a fuse burning towards the keg.

  3. Bill Says:

    “In the aftermath of these dreadful events, Fields has been arrested, Trump and all his supporters are blamed as though they are responsible, and the hard left has gotten what it wants, a martyr—Heather Heyer, a lovely 32-year old woman who worked as a paralegal and was a Sanders supporter.”

    What about those of us not in the “hard left”? I’ve never seen such equivocation about a murder, except for perhaps the Philando Castille shooting.

    This woman was killed by a neo-Nazi. That’s a big deal. You don’t have to think Trump or his supporters actually killed the woman to still see problems with Trump’s reaction to this.

    Trump goes hard against anyone who crosses him personally, immediately and with malice, but can’t bring himself to just be Presidential when he needs to, to say, unscripted and right away, that he denounces white supremacy and Nazism and call what happened this weekend what it is – terrorism (this is hard to say?). He waited a long time, finally bent to pressure and to me it least it seems he made sure that everyone with eyes could see that he was just saying what he said because he had to.

    I don’t know what goes on in Trump’s mind, but if you read what the white supremacist jerks at that rally think, they thought that Trump went easy on them and they were thrilled by it. It’s like he’s winking at them. He did this in 2016 – acted like he wasn’t sure who David Duke was and refused to denounce the support of the KKK until he had done more “research” (and finally when he just had to). It’s not in Trump’s DNA to denounce people who say nice things about him or support him – that’s his moral yardstick. It’s similar to how he treats Putin (can’t find a bad thing to say about him, and even thanked him publicly for “cutting state department payroll”. Egad).

  4. Bill Says:

    Kevino – do you really think that the mayor of C-ville wanted violence in his town? Wants all this really horrific publicity? Wanted people to die? Just to somehow score political points for the left?

    Would you do that if you were mayor? Trash your city’s reputation?

    Occam’s razor – the woman died because an alt-right Nazi killed her.

    Period.

    Why can’t we just denounce that? Does the GOP really want to hook it’s star to these guys?

    What has happened to the GOP?

  5. Inkraven Says:

    Does it rise to the level of murder if the guy’s car was being attacked prior to the incident?

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/the-anti-establishment-right/#comment-153148

  6. neo-neocon Says:

    Bill:

    I have already criticized Trump’s initial reaction, as have many others. I have no problem with his later reaction.

    And as I’m sure you know, there’s a difference between reacting to something and causing it.

    I happen to think this was caused by a host of things that have been building for many years, plus a volatile and unbalanced person set off by the combination.

  7. neo-neocon Says:

    Bill:

    Plenty of people on the right—MOST of the people on the right, are denouncing what Fields did. Have you missed that?

    But that doesn’t mean there aren’t many many other things to discuss about the big picture of what happened in Charlottesville. Do you want people to just say that sentence of denunciation and then STFU about all the rest?

  8. DNW Says:

    Looks like Neo is guilty of “Failure to denounce”, or to denounce sufficiently while using the approved locutions.

    What are the facts?

    A schizophrenic junior Nazi loon kills an “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.” left-fascist, protesting the protest of crackpot protesters. She died says her mother, doing what she loved. Field’s mother says she cannot understand as her son had an African American friend in high school. His social studies teacher says however that the young schizophrenic had an absorbing interest in Hitler. Or something along those lines.

    A rat fight ensues, and the polity smolders, as the left-fascist and right fascist emotionalists climax in anticipation.

    What a sick, and damnable population

  9. J.J. Says:

    The Charlottesville Police Chief claimed that they did not expect violence and that his men were not equipped fro a riot. They left the scene to get their riot gear when the violence began.

    I get the feeling that he’s covering for himself or his boss. However, he might be telling the truth. In which case he was naïve and/or incompetent.

  10. kevino Says:

    Bill:

    RE: “Kevino – do you really think that the mayor of C-ville wanted violence in his town? Wants all this really horrific publicity? Wanted people to die? Just to somehow score political points for the left?”
    In a word: yes.

    As I stated, if the alt-right gets hurt, that’s fun for the Left.
    If the alt-right does the hurting, then it’s a win for the Left.

    The Left in general, and the Gov. of VA in particular, are perfectly happy to have violence. Do you really think that they are afraid of bad publicity? They are now the victims — victims of the alt-right.

    Do you think that the leadership of the Left is above putting innocents in harms way for political purposes? History is not kind to that theory. BLM and gun control laws are just two examples of how the Left is happy to put people’s lives in danger to score political points. Additionally, the level of violence in many American cities is horrific, and yet the leaders of those cities, who are almost exclusively from the Left, are happy to let the blood flow in the streets because it is politically expedient. They could stop it, but they won’t. The mayor of Chicago may be slightly concerned with bad publicity, but not very much.

    To be a Leftist, to be a statist, is to believe in the righteousness of your cause, and that justifies pretty much anything. They believe in the value of propaganda and in playing the long game. The value of human life, not so much.

    What they are doing is very dangerous. They are quite literally creating an atmosphere where people will conclude that they cannot affect positive change through the ballot box, and so the people are being encouraged to affect change by other means. This may not end well.

  11. kevino Says:

    I’m back. I just stumbled on this from the WaPo: “Segregationists have again assumed their pedestals in the Justice Department, the White House and many other American temples. Paper alone won’t drive them out. Start throwing rocks.”

    Having just finished a comment (here) about how the Left is trying to stir up violence, it’s nice for the WaPo to prove my point.

  12. DNW Says:

    ” Do you want people to just say that sentence of denunciation and then STFU about all the rest?”

    He wants you to demonstrate your social conscience bona fides to his satisfaction and under his terms; lest you be relegated to the drawer of disappointment, along with the Republican Party which let him down and dashed his hopes of its offering a better tomorrow.

    It would on the other hand be nice if, instead of constantly reiterating his shattered hopes and dreams, he would say what it is that he is really after.

    On the other, other hand …

    We have already established that it is not a rule of law driven polity he is primarily after. And, that his political values are in fact formed out of and melded with, certain theological premisses … thereby joining the Marxist clan at least insofar as goes denying to a formally liberal polity, a moral legitimacy distinct and separate from the institutions of civil society.

    “No” he said. He would not given the choice repatriate illegal aliens wholesale even on condition it would not prove fatal (if admittedly inconvenient) in order to restore the rule of law.

    So despite my comment, when it comes to his so-called “conservatism”, what else does one really need to know?

  13. Yann Says:

    A testimony, taken from the voxday site

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/08/riot-police-called-out-in.html

    We were prepared to engage in civil disobedience and be arrested. I was on a line with Baked Alaska, Spencer, Damigo, and a few others.

    The state police refused to arrest us. They assaulted us, knocked our guys down, and pepper sprayed us.

    The police pushed us into a hostile crowd of antifa. They wanted to create a violent situation.

    We had to battle our way out, I saw people bleeding and a lot of pepper spray casualties.

    There’s no evidence, but it sounds reasonable. They’re willing to be arrested. The police are not willing to arrest them (it could give some political prisoner status)… so… if you’re the police, what you could do?
    maybe you push them towards the antifas and both dissolve each other… but tragedy happens.

  14. Dave Says:

    you can sense the gratification coming from the left that finally 1 person got killed by a alt-righter, after hundreds of lives taken by Leftists, BLM or Jihadists just in 2016 alone.

  15. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Stopping street violence is not ‘complicated’. And, in the situation the Charlottesville police had to assume was coming… being ‘unprepared’ posits not incompetence but a willful disregard for public safety.

    This is so because forming a police line to separate opposing groups of demonstrators is long established, standard police procedure. Failing to do so can only be intentional.

    It is not engaging in conspiracy theories to find it highly improbable that the Charlottesville police are either incompetent or stupid. And if they are not, then ‘following orders’ is the sole remaining explanation.

  16. miklos000rosza Says:

    Rachel Corrie.

  17. DNW Says:

    miklos000rosza Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    Rachel Corrie.”

    Her parents were proud that she died doing what gratified her, and them, too.

    What school did she go to again?

  18. Ann Says:

    It’s not in Trump’s DNA to denounce people who say nice things about him or support him – that’s his moral yardstick.

    John Podhoretz has a piece up at Commentary that takes this a bit further — some excerpts:

    You can choose to have whatever opinion you have on the president’s statement today condemning white supremacists, but it’s hard to believe he would have read it out if he’d had his druthers. No, the real Donald Trump was the one we saw on Saturday when he decided to condemn violence “on many sides” in response to the deliberately provocative and intentionally violent neo-Nazi march in Charlottesville, Virginia; when he decided to refer to the events as “sad” in tweets; when he wished “best regards” to those injured by the car that was deliberately smashed into them, killing 1 and injuring 20. When he acted in that way, he was operating according to his instinct. And his instinct said: Do not attack the white supremacists. …

    For years, under the radar and likely with the guidance of his political guru Roger Stone, Trump built a powerful and loyal following through what could be called—yes, I know this is going to sound condescending and elitist, but what can I say, I’m condescending and elitist—the proletarian media.

    I’m talking about Alex Jones and Infowars, the conspiracy-theory radio-show/website on which Trump has appeared for years; the radio show has 2 million listeners a week, and Jones was said in 2011 to have a larger online presence than Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. I’m talking about the WWE, which televises wrestling and which, in 2014, could claim a weekly audience of 15 million and on whose programs Trump intermittently served as a kind of Special Guest Villain in the manner of a villain on the 1960s Batman show. I’m talking about American Media, the company that owns the National Enquirer, the Star, the Sun, and the Weekly World News run by Trump’s close friend David Pecker; the combined weekly circulation of its publications is well in excess of 2 million. Trump helped make the birther issue a major one for a month in 2011 by talking about it on “Meet the Press” and “Good Morning America,” on network television. But he was surfacing an issue that had been roiling in the proletarian media, stirred and shaken constantly by his political guru, Roger Stone. …

    By paying them heed, Trump was not only feeding his inexhaustible maw for attention. He was reaching a group of disaffected Americans entirely on the margins of American life, politically and culturally and organizationally. The dedicated prole-media audience, which might make up 5 or 6 percent of the electorate, is not enough to make a base. But it’s enough to make a nucleus. And what they knew is that he didn’t dismiss them. They knew he was listening to them. They knew he wanted to talk to them, wanted to hear from them. …

    It was not this nucleus that showed up in Charlottesville. These were, instead, subatomic elements inside what we might call the nucleolus of Trump’s support, the tiny machine inside the atomic machine that forms the core of the Trump base. And that nucleolus is governed by rage, hatred, a sense of being wronged, and the loathing of others due to race and national origin. They are numerically insignificant to a man who secured 63 million votes in November 2016. But he—he, not I—seems to feel they are necessary to the constitution of his core. And he basically let them off with a mild warning.

  19. n.n Says:

    Color supremacy is to “one-child” as [class] diversity is to “selective-child”. Both the [anti]fascists and neo-national socialists are execrable creatures that can be tolerated but not normalized.

  20. n.n Says:

    The government is, of course, responsible for the collateral damage. This was not only a legal assembly but a licensed assembly.

    Anyway, Left vs Left. Hopefully, the Left will lose.

  21. parker Says:

    Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn come to mind. Deja vu all over again.

  22. Mr. Frank Says:

    I’ve followed this story fairly closely, and I have yet to see MSM reports on the relative size of the two conflicting groups or which of the two groups appeared to be more on the attack. Surely those are not tough questions.

  23. Dave Says:

    both far left and far right are evil, it is like having Hitler and stalin fighting each other in the streets, the bigger problem of the whole thing is the MSM picked side and declared Stalin as the good guy.

  24. Dave Says:

    MSM is willing to side with the evil aspect of the left just to hurt Trump, that should be the story.

  25. TommyJay Says:

    How is it possible that a hundred or more city and state cops were given orders that day, and not a single news outlet can tell us what those orders were? OK, the ACLU cites an anonymous source who said the stand down order was given. By whom? Under what conditions?

  26. MollyNH Says:

    Bravo Kevino, Bill needs to read what made committed Leftist David Horowitz a Changer, it’s real eye opener. Go read it Bill it is right on Hitiwitz Web site, unvarnished and horrifying !!!

  27. MollyNH Says:

    Horowitz, not horiwitz, dam spell check!

  28. Richard Aubrey Says:

    It was the murder of a friend that opened his eyes. Kind of slow, Horowitz was.

  29. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Over at Richard Fernandez’s blog I found this comment to shed some light on background of which I was unaware;

    “subotaibahadur • 15 hours ago
    Actually, I expect that in Leftist controlled areas [coastal cities and environs] that Confederate graves will be desecrated soon, followed by punitive expeditions into the areas “beyond the Leftist Pale” to spread the desecration.

    But that is probably not going to be the trigger point. For literally over a year, the Left has been physically assaulting anyone who is “not Left” and in those areas controlled by the Left, the forces of the government have been accomplices and at times actors in the assaults. The official political “opposition” has been silent or critical of those being attacked, even though in theory those targeted were the ones who the “opposition” represented. Even after a Democrat attempt to overturn the congressional elections with a mass assassination attempt, the Republicans sat on the story not demanding investigations and follow ups. They are perfectly happy being the submissive slaves of the Left, whose beliefs they really share.

    While all details of what happened in Charlottesville are not out, we have some broad outlines.

    1) The original protest by “Unite the Right” was based about the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. Which in itself was incredibly stupid, but these are Leftists we are dealing with. Lee spent his life after the war trying to build a reconciliation between North and South, and it was his direct command forbidding it that prevented up to 1/3 of the Army of Northern Virginia from fading into the civilian population and fighting what would have been an incredibly bloody guerilla war that could have lasted for decades.

    2) Now we have to be curious about the accuracy of the flags flying. The leader of the protest was one Jason Kessler. Kessler has an interesting background. Until late 2016 Kessler was active with OCCUPY, Obama’s OFA, and was a reporter for CNN. Not exactly a conservative background.

    3) “Unite the Right” sought a permit for a peaceful demonstration. This was opposed by Virginia Governor McAuliffe and the mayor of Charlottesville [name slips my mind and I don’t want to stop and look it up right now]. They denied it functionally because it was those “icky” conservatives and the Constitution does not apply to them. A Federal District Court had a different view, and ordered the permit to be issued and appropriate precautions taken.

    4) Now, while Kessler was quite likely a false flag, there were a lot of other people there. Certainly some were Nazi’s. Some claimed to be KKK, which is interesting because most of the membership of the KKK seems to be FBI informants. I won’t go into whether their presence is an assignment, or a choice. But a lot of people there were just people tired of the Left. It is important to note that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights apply to everyone, even Nazi’s and the KKK.

    5) When the demonstration started, keeping in mind that the “Unite the Right” group was the only one with a permit and it was confirmed by a Federal Judge, there were both local and State police, and reinforcements from surrounding communities. And they were issued orders by both the Governor and the Mayor that under no circumstances were they to intervene in any violence without direct orders from the Governor and the Mayor. This has been denied by the State Police and Charlottesville police, but confirmed by the reinforcements from surrounding communities, and surprisingly by the Virginia ACLU which was there and who remembered amazingly enough what their organization is theoretically for. It is an anomaly for the ACLU to criticize anything done by Democrats.

    6) Shortly after the demonstration began, buses pulled up and hundreds of Antifa, BLM, and assorted other of the Democrat street thugs disembarked, masked and armed. I note that under § 18.2-422 of Virginia law, wearing of masks in public is a Class 6 felony. It is part of their laws against, ironically, the KKK. They began attacking the “Unite the Right” while the police watched people being beaten. Also, the attackers used tear gas spray. It was not, of course, one-sided. But it could have been worse because a number of the “Unite the Right” demonstrators were armed and not one shot was fired. The official Virginia State Police excuse later was that they were afraid to intervene because the “Unite the Right” was armed. I would note in passing that I spent 28 years wearing a badge, and that while special tactics might be needed, only in a Democrat controlled area could I conceive of police ignoring public violence because of fear of armed rioters.

    7) At 1152 hrs. local time, Governor McAuliffe declared a state of emergency and ordered the “Unite the Right” out. It is critical to keep in mind that they had a permit, backed by a Federal Judge, had been attacked, and their attackers had no permit and their very presence was a mass felony being deliberately ignored by the police. And the “Unite the Right” left, albeit a fighting withdrawal. The park where the demonstration was to take place was cleared by police by 1230 hrs.

    8) After “Unite the Right” had left, the Democrat thugs began a celebratory riot over having “chased” the “Unite the Right” from the park. That riot included attacking the police, who were restrained in their response, with only a few people being arrested.

    9) At 1340 hrs. the car driven by James Alex Fields Jr. apparently deliberately drove into a crowd of the Democrat thugs. I say apparently, because there are several versions out there, some of which say he was being attacked by rioters. I do not know and that is a matter for the courts. There was some confusion about who owned/was driving the vehicle. The license plate led to documents showing that it was purchased by James Alex Fields Sr. Apparently, it was given to James Alex Fields Jr. It seems Senior is a Leftist on social media. Junior is closer to Nazi. Which must make holiday dinners a joy and a wonder. But that led to confusion as to motivation, but it was Junior driving. One woman was killed, several other people seriously injured. Junior was charged with Second Degree Murder, which is not a death penalty offense. Although Virginia may make an exception in this case. Plus a lot of lesser charges for those injured

    10) What is of note in this case is that once again it seems that Democrat controlled governments have conspired to violate or ignore the law in order to attack anyone who is not a Leftist. And given Kessler’s background, the whole thing may have been a deliberate set-up between Democrat government officials and Democrat street thugs.

    11) Anyone who is not a Leftist has to learn from this and the past year that the Left will violate the law, even if in government, to attack them. And that the Republicans will side with them. There is going to be a Federal investigation, but it is going to be of the “Unite the Right” and not the thugs that broke the law to deny them their First Amendment rights. Attorney General Sessions is apparently hell on civil forfeiture of property without a conviction of a crime, but cannot spare any effort to investigate Democrat crimes at any level or any violent and illegal attacks on what is President Trump’s voter base. There is a lesson here. You cannot depend on the law, because it will be used against conservatives only.

    12) Leftist thugs re-learned a lesson. They are above the law. They can do anything with impunity and will be protected by both parties in government.

    13) Toss into that mix that we have learned since the election that an election can deliver the House, the Senate, and the Presidency into the hands of Republicans, and the Republicans in the House and Senate will devote themselves to protecting Democrat programs and how Democrats run the government. If voting does not change government policies, electoral politics becomes a waste of time.

    14) There will continue to be peacefully intended and fully legal political demonstrations by those who oppose the Left. And they will continue to be attacked by, and what is legally deadly force used by, the Leftist thugs against them with impunity. Eventually, what I expect is that there will be drive by shootings by Leftists, and there will be no arrests or prosecutions.

    15) Eventually, those who oppose the Left are going to respond to the incentive structure being created. They will arm themselves with firearms to defend themselves. And I suspect that the concept of overwatch will be employed. And when attacked will fire back and the full force of the State and both parties will fall on them.

    16) At that point, those who oppose the Left are going to go on offense. And just like the Left does when it has power, there will be no civilians, nor safe spaces, nor “King’s-X”. And everybody’s dance card is going to be full.

    Wretchard is right that all people have to do is walk away from government structures, especially government structures that do nothing but attack them. But the walk away is not going to be peaceful, because in the absence of what is supposed to be an even-handed government protecting everybody, people are going to turn to whatever “tribe” shares their beliefs for protection from the other tribes.

    Know who your friends are. Know who are not your friends. And don’t even think of unbuttoning your codpiece.

    Subotai Bahadur”

  30. charles Says:

    “I haven’t mentioned the police in this post because I still don’t have a clear picture of why they weren’t out in force and actively keeping the violence down.”

    Given how the police are blamed for everything I sort of don’t blame them for “standing down.”

    Why should any cop, who can and will be blamed for most anything, put his neck on the line for thugs from both sides?

  31. Oldflyer Says:

    I read one first person account on another site. Sorry to say, I am having trouble finding it again. That account was given by an individual who was scheduled to speak. He said that he was in a fenced off area, and there was no sense of threat. He was casually chatting with others as he waited.

    He described it as a park with fencing enclosing the area where the demonstration was allowed; then police on three sides.
    The counter protest–Antifa– were on the fourth, open side, of the park, with a cordon of protective “toughs” (my description) between the demonstration area and the Antifa. Up to that point there had been a few individual scuffles, but nothing serious. Shortly before the rally was due to commence, the police announced via bull horn that it was an unlawful assembly and those present must leave immediately or be arrested. They were then herded by the police into the opening that was occupied by Antifa. They, in effect, had to run a gauntlet of Antifa to leave the area, and all hell broke loose.

    Given the previous public statements by the Mayo, and by Senator Kaine, and the character of Governor McAuliffe, I have no trouble at all believing that the confrontation was orchestrated. I suppose that they regret the unintended consequences of the deaths of the two Highway Patrolmen–and there have been no reports of why they crashed–and the woman who was killed. Still, it obviously plays into their narrative. Trump.and his Nazis.

  32. Richard Saunders Says:

    It’s just indicative of how politicized this country has become that normally intelligent people purport to believe that the President didn’t say the magic words, “KKK, neo-Nazis, and white supremacists,” because he’s a racist. Is that like Groucho Marx’s Secret Word — you have to say the exact word to win the prize?

    Oh wait, but he didn’t denounce The Stormer, the Aryan People’s Liberation Front, The Aryan People’s Front (splitters!), the Caucasian Legion, the Junior Fascist League, the Ubermensch Chowder and Marching Society, etc., etc., etc. He must be a racist!

    For anyone to think that a President who has seen one of his campaign rallies prevented by violence, seen cities and college campuses burn,
    seen people marching down interstate highways chanting “Pigs in a Blanket, Fry ’em like Bacon!”
    or “Want do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want ’em? Now!” seen cops assassinated in New York, Palm Springs, and Dallas by BLM supporters, seen an assassination attempt on Republican Congressmen, can’t say, “I condemn violence, hatred, and bigotry on all sides,” without being called soft on racism, is just the biological end-product of male bovine digestion.

  33. Ed Says:

    Very suspicious to me: why did the helicopter crash? I have only heard ONE update since Saturday…and that is that the pilots did not send a distress call to air traffic control.

  34. Bill Says:

    “Do you want people to just say that sentence of denunciation and then STFU about all the rest?”

    No, of course not. This particular weekend actually could use a lot of conversation.

    But I wouldn’t mind if people would quit trying to find some left-caused reason that Fields drove his car into a crowd. You see it all over the place.

    For example: “Does it rise to the level of murder if the guy’s car was being attacked prior to the incident?”

    YES. IT DOES.

    He ran over someone who’s politics you disagree with. Which makes one commenter up above call her a “fascist”.

    It wasn’t “really” Field’s fault. It was the mayor’s fault. It was Soros fault. The alt-right neo-nazi white-supremacists were peaceful. Etc., etc. etc.

    These guys were Trump voters. Now, that’s not your fault as a Trump voter. But Trump himself needs to do what he did when Ted Cruz offered his support. Remember? “I don’t want it, don’t need it”.

    Tell the b_stards to take off your red hat and go put on hoods.

    Well, that’s what I would have done anyway.

    Trump’s performance in today’s press conf was pretty amazing, by the way. Watch it.

    The alt-right racists feel vindicated by Trump. I can’t support that, but I realize many of you can and will. Have it your way.

  35. DNW Says:

    “He ran over someone who’s politics you disagree with. Which makes one commenter up above call her a “fascist”. ”

    I think the poster quoted above must be mistaken. I just did a word search and found no reference to the deceased progressive as a simple “fascist”, much less a fascist because she was run over.

    Hope this helps.

  36. Kyndyll G Says:

    In follow-up to some previous posts here, I present the image seen on this PJM page:

    https://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2017/08/14/trumps-statements-on-charlottesville-reveal-a-deeply-flawed-president-at-his-worst/

    Does this not look rather strange to anyone else? How many of the Nazi and Confederate flags at this event had been unfolded for the first time that day? Really, really makes the whole thing look like a setup from the first word.

    I am really starting to suspect that this was all a setup to entrap Trump (who could not have said the right thing, no matter what he said and when, for lefties trying to crucify him) and to make The Enemy (that’s us, by the way) look bad.

    I have a creepy image of the movers and shakers on the lefty side doing high-fives behind closed doors about the car accident, while The Enemy is forced to grovel like beaten dogs and issue their mea culpas properly.

  37. OldTexan Says:

    There is pressure building and it has been building for years, way before Trump beat Hillary last fall, and it will continue to build no matter who is in office. It scares me to death because I think a fuse has been lighted that no one can douse.

    We have had a heck of a run since 1945 when WWII ended and that freaking cataclysm was set off by the remote event of the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg, occurred on 28 June 1914 in Sarajevo which resulted in WWI and it’s continuation. One Austrian in another country with Austrian ties to German and Serb ties to Russian and in not time at all Germany is invading France when there was not way anyone ever thought that could happen.

    Since that last event Saturday I have been reading everything I can in order to understand how the heck the left, both hard and soft can demonize those on the right and I don’t mean the nut job Alt-Right Nazi-KKK faction which I perceive to be a few hundred maladjusted idiots with a lot of FBI informants thrown in.

    G. Britain:subotaibahadur

    But that is probably not going to be the trigger point. For literally over a year, the Left has been physically assaulting anyone who is “not Left” and in those areas controlled by the Left, the forces of the government have been accomplices and at times actors in the assaults.

    I am afraid some time in the next few years if this pace of resistance, which I think is a misnomer since they really are aggressors, continues we will reach a tipping point where actual purposeful death and destruction occurs. I really don’t want to see some sort of a civil war between factions and people having to take sides because we do not need this with all of its unintended consequences.

    Will we have to take sides? Can us old guys sit back, open a beer and watch the misery and consequences? I don’t think so because I have three kids with their spouses and grandchildren spread over three time zones and they all tend to identify with conservative causes and thought.

    We like our first and second amendments and I guess if push comes to shove we will be unwilling to give them up. So, I am glad Trump is in office instead of Hillary and I don’t think he will be able to do much to slow down the disintegration of our respect of lawful government and legal orders even if he were able say all of the correct words at the proper time.

    And yes, this weekend protest was a complete setup with unintended consequences of the car death and the copter crash. (Side note, I have heard in the past from people who fly helicopters that some of the police department use donated from the Feds copters and the amount of maintenance required to bring them up date and keep them up is beyond what most departments budget.)

  38. om Says:

    Bill, give it a rest. Things are more complex than you want to paint it. You are upset, we get that. We know who died and who was at the wheel, beyond that, emotions are taking over. Don’t be played.

  39. DNW Says:

    Perhaps this will help …

    “We Must Not Allow Centrists to Erase Heather Heyer’s Activism”

    Yeah, because to be anti racist is to be anti capitalist .. at least in the circles she ran in …

    “Heyer … was a member of both the Industrial Workers of the World and the Democratic Socialists of America.

    … liberals are working hard to co-opt the memory of Heather Heyer and erase her membership in truly leftist organizations. In a tweet thanking groups for solidarity, for example, Indivisible left out both IWW and DSA — the two groups of which Heather Heyer was a member.

    Another bit of commentary some might find of interest …

    http://www.dsausa.org/charlottesville

    ” … latest reports suggest that at least one person has lost their life and at least 19 injured. Two DSA members were hospitalized and have since been discharged. There are reports that an ISO comrade was also injured. A comrade reportedly from the Industrial Workers of the World lost their life on the front line of the battle against fascism. “

  40. Dave Says:

    Still haven’t read a post from bill condemning the Blm who executed the five cops on tv

  41. MollyNH Says:

    Cautionary note, don’t attend these demonarrations. not worth your life, sadly she found out the hard way, a young woman too, mom’s heart must be broken. I know mine would be.

  42. Dave Says:

    Bill is always silent when some leftist looney mass killing people in the name of allah or social justice and when a neo nazi plow into a crowd of cop killing supporters oh now it’s the end of the world. Oh no one mass killing jihadist doesn’t represent all muslims, one Blm cop executor doesn’t represent all social justice warriors, we still don’t know the motive of that maniac who targeted republicans, but one kkk crashing a protest means all white people are racists, the left and their hypocrisy makes me sick.

  43. MollyNH Says:

    Guess those are merely cops to Bill., after all he voted Obama & we all know Obama hates police & soldiers & capitalists & Christians & America, in the same way that Trump loves those guys, but not his fault he just voted, Doncha know. Lol.

  44. parker Says:

    I think Bill simply believes the days of JFK, Scoop Jackson, Pat Monihyan, or Lieberman will magically return. Ain’t going to happen in his lifetime, if ever. But I can not view him as on the dark side, just confused about the reality we face.

    BTW I too would like to wish away the reality of our times, but recognize what I see is a real threat to the liberty of my children and grandchildren.

  45. huxley Says:

    U.S. Grant’s memoir account of Robert E. Lee’s surrender at Appomattox is deeply moving. I recommend it to anyone who cares about American history and statues of R.E. Lee.

    I had known General Lee in the old army, and had served with him in the Mexican War; but did not suppose, owing to the difference in our age and rank, that he would remember me, while I would more naturally remember him distinctly, because he was the chief of staff of General Scott in the Mexican War.

    When I had left camp that morning I had not expected so soon the result that was then taking place, and consequently was in rough garb. I was without a sword, as I usually was when on horseback on the field, and wore a soldier’s blouse for a coat, with the shoulder straps of my rank to indicate to the army who I was. When I went into the house I found General Lee. We greeted each other, and after shaking hands took our seats. I had my staff with me, a good portion of whom were in the room during the whole of the interview.

    What General Lee’s feelings were I do not know. As he was a man of much dignity, with an impassible face, it was impossible to say whether he felt inwardly glad that the end had finally come, or felt sad over the result, and was too manly to show it. Whatever his feelings, they were entirely concealed from my observation; but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on the receipt of his letter, were sad and depressed. I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us.

    General Lee was dressed in a full uniform which was entirely new, and was wearing a sword of considerable value, very likely the sword which had been presented by the State of Virginia; at all events, it was an entirely different sword from the one that would ordinarily be worn in the field. In my rough traveling suit, the uniform of a private with the straps of a lieutenant-general, I must have contrasted very strangely with a man so handsomely dressed, six feet high and of faultless form. But this was not a matter that I thought of until afterwards.

    We soon fell into a conversation about old army times. He remarked that he remembered me very well in the old army; and I told him that as a matter of course I remembered him perfectly, but from the difference in our rank and years (there being about sixteen years’ difference in our ages), I had thought it very likely that I had not attracted his attention sufficiently to be remembered by him after such a long interval. Our conversation grew so pleasant that I almost forgot the object of our meeting. After the conversation had run on in this style for some time, General Lee called my attention to the object of our meeting, and said that he had asked for this interview for the purpose of getting from me the terms I proposed to give his army. I said that I meant merely that his army should lay down their arms, not to take them up again during the continuance of the war unless duly and properly exchanged. He said that he had so understood my letter.

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4367/4367-h/4367-h.htm#ch67

    That’s American history, folks, We have a lot to live up to. Best get to it.

  46. AesopFan Says:

    kevino Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 2:59 pm

    To be a Leftist, to be a statist, is to believe in the righteousness of your cause, and that justifies pretty much anything. They believe in the value of propaganda and in playing the long game. The value of human life, not so much.

    What they are doing is very dangerous. They are quite literally creating an atmosphere where people will conclude that they cannot affect positive change through the ballot box, and so the people are being encouraged to affect change by other means. This may not end well.
    * * *
    This WILL not end well.

    That may be the goal of the Left, because the currently operating ROE seem to favor them.
    (eg, as many have remarked: the Left is supported by the Democrats, the media, and a lot of covert Republicans).

    However, to paraphrase a cartoon about another group of destroyers,
    “We ain’t play cowboys and Commies yet.”

  47. AesopFan Says:

    OldTexan Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 8:37 pm

    G. Britain:subotaibahadur

    But that is probably not going to be the trigger point.
    * * *
    History’s lesson is that we won’t know before-hand what the trigger-point (tipping point) will be, except that it probably won’t be anything on the “experts” radar.

    It will be something apparently simple with complex roots, and a staggering amount of ineptitude mixed with knavery.
    Like the assassination in Sarajevo.

  48. AesopFan Says:

    Dave Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 5:25 pm
    MSM is willing to side with the evil aspect of the left just to hurt Trump, that should be the story.
    * *
    Trump is actually collateral damage; the goal is to hurt the not-Left whatever it may be, which now encompasses far more than just the Fighting Republicans, the “official” Right, and the various factions of the alt-right, as witnessed by the firings and persecution of heretics within their ranks.

    The President is just the biggest target, with the most return on investment of the attacks.

  49. AesopFan Says:

    Geoffrey Britain Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 3:14 pm
    Stopping street violence is not ‘complicated’. And, in the situation the Charlottesville police had to assume was coming… being ‘unprepared’ posits not incompetence but a willful disregard for public safety.
    * * *
    Contrast the reaction in Seattle (?!?!?) to a confrontation the next day.
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/yesterday-charlottesville-today-seattle.php

    BTW, for anyone still looking for evidence of “who shot first” — see also PowerLine today.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/trump-tells-the-truth-and-the-press-goes-crazy.php

  50. AesopFan Says:

    Geoffrey Britain Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 6:35 pm
    Over at Richard Fernandez’s blog I found this comment to shed some light on background of which I was unaware;

    “subotaibahadur • 15 hours ago
    * *
    Which article, GB?

    I sometimes see subotai on several blogs, including Sarah Hoyt’s and the old Hot Air; his comments are usually worth considering — good for those of us seeking open mindedness.

  51. AesopFan Says:

    Found it (subotaibahadur • 20 hours ago).

    https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2017/08/14/no-more-worlds-to-conquer-and-still-out-of-money/

    “Behind hue and cry over the alt-right/ctrl-left clashes lurks the big stakes game for control of the state. Past tyranny operated through control of the state, via organs of censorship, surveillance, the criminal justice system and propaganda. Without these it is merely an impotent spirit of malice, condemned to haunt little bookstores and beer gardens. Neither Nazism nor Bolshevism was possible with a small state.

    The asymmetry in the strategic goals of Red and Blue derives from the importance of the state to each. For progressives, survival means retaining ascendance over the state. For the Red or Populist side, the goal is merely to keep the state from being ascendant over them. This asymmetry is the great weakness of the Progressives. If they don’t win they lose. For Rebels, if they don’t lose they win. Consider Google’s firing of James Damore for questioning the company’s diversity policies. It wasn’t about opinion, it was about control. Everyone can have an opinion but only one side can be in control. Damore had to be thrown out to “win”. …
    Yet even Google cannot pursue this strategy of control forever. Sooner or later the costs of witch hunting will be too high. ”

    Ditto the recent firing of Jeffrey Lord from CNN.

    Except that I don’t think the Left will ever be reconciled to losing; they would rather burn down the world than let the other side win (same with Hitler and Stalin et al.)
    (who else does that sound like..hmmm).

    Whereas conservatives are willing to win and go about their own lives.

    You can see it at work in two ways: Obama supporters who continued to needle those who didn’t vote “correctly” (sore winners); and Clinton supporters who refuse to accept that Trump won (sore losers).

    It’s not a good combination.

  52. AesopFan Says:

    https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2017/08/12/the-war-of-the-hyphens/

    “One of the recurring themes of recent Belmont Club posts is that complexity has raised the costs of a hyphenated society to such a degree that individuals are hiding behind the interfaces of group identity. The Narrative led people to the cliff — and they refused to jump. When public policy itself turns public life into a kind of zero-sum competition for resources and legitimacy, they may feel obliged to join gangs to get a slice of the pie. We are in a self-made political prison and the hyphens have become our prison bars. This is tragic, but if it is inevitable at least the opportunities in promoting inter-gang trade, cooperation and negotiation in our newly fragmented world should be pursued to the fullest.

    For if people will not “love each other, respect each other and cherish our history and our future together” they can at least do business. The Red and the Blue (and all the shades in between) may go their separate ways but it remains in their mutual interest to cooperate against common threats, respect the “full faith and credit” of each other’s institutions, and exchange goods and services. In many surprising respects the future may resemble the pre-Federal past. It will be a simplified (as opposed to simpler) world where people live in “safe spaces” and deal with the Other through borders.”

    * * *
    This is a remarkably accurate current-day analog of the situation described in the Book of Mormon when the combination of subversive and overtly violent factions managed to jointly destroy the comity and governance that had previously united opposing groups.

    3 Nephi 7:2-4,11-12,14
    2 And the people were divided one against another; and they did separate one from another into tribes, every man according to his family and his kindred and friends; and thus they did destroy the government of the land.

  53. AesopFan Says:

    Another from Fernandez hits the target of Leftist hypocrisy.

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/08/15/nyt-illustrates-perfectly-conservatives-consider-mainstream-media-hostile/

    “What we see here is precisely why the right views the mainstream media in general, and the New York Times in particular, as the enemy. Both Cruz and Rubio have reason to refuse to find common cause with racists due to their own ethnicity, but Lipton refuses to see that and instead ascribes base, selfish motives to their statements.

    Yet, if they hadn’t condemned the racists, they’d be getting the same treatment Trump is getting.

    It’s a classic case of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” There is literally nothing these two could have done that wouldn’t have been blasted by leftists in some way, shape, or form.”

  54. Big Maq Says:

    “Trump and all his supporters are blamed as though they are responsible” – Neo

    Right.

    Rather echos the reaction from many on the right to the GOP Senate ball team shooter.

    Neither are / were correct.
    .

    The left / msm would always play it the way they do.

    The political “aftermath” is more a function of how trump handled / handles it.

    As of tonight, he seems to now be doubling down on his initial take.

    If he were attempting to explain some kind of nuance about the facts, maybe it would have some merit, but even if one gives him the benefit of the doubt, his take is incredibly clumsy, at best.

    As Frank Luntz wrote, it is not what you say, but what THEY hear. An excellent read, btw:
    https://www.amazon.com/Words-That-Work-What-People/dp/1401309291/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502857330&sr=8-1&keywords=frank+luntz

    Without a consistent and clear message, trump’s muted response and current reprise makes his interim push back on these groups seem forced and inauthentic.

    The left / msm will leverage whatever you give them, and trump has given them plenty.

  55. Bill Says:

    MollyNH – I didn’t vote for Obama. The last Presidential election I was happy about was 2004.

    I’m a member of a growing set of Republicans and former Republicans who hate what has happened to the GOP.

    I hate terrorism, right and left. But what we’re talking about in this thread is right wing terrorism (unless you believe it was all a set up). I’m sure there will be some left wing or Islamic terrorism soon and I’ll hate that. I probably come harder at the right wing stuff because this is, or was, my tribe.

    Trump slyly courted the alt-right and, just like with Putin, he’s had a remarkably hard time distancing himself from them. He has Bannon, Gorka and Miller in high positions in the WH. The alt-right knows what’s up. I’ve been saying this for a year. What happened this weekend is probably going to continue on both sides.

    We can expect no help from our politicians, least of all Trump, because they’ve learned that the best way to gain and keep power is to keep us at each other’s throats and convince us we’re victims of the other. If you don’t believe that, read any comments thread on and right or left blog.

    Also, I’m a Christian. I’m a white evangelical Christian to be precise, one of the 19% who didn’t vote for Trump. I voted third party. I say this kindly, but it’s sad that not supporting Trump is now seen as evidence that I hate Christians, or at least vote for people who hate Christians.

  56. KLSmith Says:

    Bill: FWIW, I thought you made some good points and it’s nice to see a different take. Group think is what the left does.

  57. Richard Aubrey Says:

    If Fields was fleeing an actual attack–see Reginald Denny–it might be tough to hang a murder charge on him.
    Given the ubiquity of recording devices, evidence one way or another ought to be available.

  58. Bill Says:

    KLSmith – thanks for the kind words 🙂

  59. Big Maq Says:

    “(the politicians have) learned that the best way to gain and keep power is to keep us at each other’s throats and convince us we’re victims of the other. If you don’t believe that, read any comments thread on and right or left blog.” – Bill

    Astute. That is also how the media operations.

    Divide and conquer, fan the flames, build the emotion, and one gets a following.

    Fortunately, for now, there are a great many who still haven’t bought into the blue vs red divide.

    It is why BOTH major party candidates suffered from one of the lowest turnouts ever, as a percentage of eligible voters, why trump’s approval rating is so low already, and why media trust is also extremely low.

    Our foes are the ones who are “Winning!!!” right now. putin is laughing all the way, as we force ourselves to focus on the petty, elevating what doesn’t need attention, diverting from any positive agenda, and end up in stasis.

  60. DNW Says:

    Does anyone know for certain, IF, as some have claimed … the schizophrenic Nazi wannabe who ran his car into the antifa, DSA, IWW, counterprotest crowd, was actually attacked in his vehicle by pipe wielding counter-protesters, BEFORE he drove into them?

    Is there a clear causal chain or timeline which has been established yet? Unprovoked mayhem? Provoked but unjustified retaliation?

    Trying to determine this by wading through a Google swamp has not yet payed off for me.

  61. neo-neocon Says:

    DNW:

    The bulk of what I’ve read says no.

    New evidence may emerge later, of course.

  62. OldTexan Says:

    I heard about the possibility of the New Nazi trying to escape danger in his car early on and I was hoping that was the case but it appears that the pounding on his car was post crash. Of course him showing the Nazi sympathy going back for years makes him a poster kid for hate.

    By the way, after Trump doubling down yesterday with his talk about both sides being a problem I have to agree with what Big Maq has been saying for some time. Trump, just shut the F**k Up, listen to your staff, everybody hates Nazis and not everybody hates the lefty protestors, especially the media. Learn how to say something like, “This is a terrible thing that happened and I know that those responsible will be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.” And then shut the F**K Up when you screw up don’t try to explain because as any lawyer will tell you, anything you say can and will be used against you.

  63. MollyNH Says:

    @ bill , you chose to be little us Trump voters. Trump loves America. That’s all I need to feel comfortable with him.

  64. Bill Says:

    MollyNH,

    Actually, one problem I have with Trump is it’s really clear he loves his base.

    If you are not in his base, you are persona non grata with him

    He loves the part of America that voted for him.

    I didn’t mean to belittle you. I hope the sentiment goes both ways; you did after all call me a leftist who doesn’t care when police are killed in the line of duty.

  65. Oldflyer Says:

    Old Texan, and anyone else who agrees with his point, I have to say that I simply do not understand. It is not very hard to find pictures of the Antifa in Charlottesville before the mayhem. They are geared up for war, masked, and carrying clubs and shields. Likewise there are videos available that show the protestors–some, but not all, also extremists as well–marching down the street, as ordered by the police, until they come under attack from Antifa thugs.

    There were two extremist groups that clashed on the streets of Charlottesville. Interestingly enough one group was participating in a lawful gathering. That is it was lawful until the Democrat politicians who control the city and the state decreed at the last moment that it was not, and forced the people who had gathered in the designated area for the demonstration to walk into direct confrontation with the other group, who came there for the express purpose of violence and mayhem.

    Why is that hard to accept?

    Why must Trump be vilified for speaking verifiable truth? Well, because what he said does not fit the accepted narrative–and besides he is Trump. A lot of people are loudly piling on the President; a quieter group applaud the fact that he pointed out the obvious. It was not a one sided travesty.

  66. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Conspiracy theories abound, but my personal opinion (at least so far) is incompetence and stupidity as well as wishful thinking.

    My analysis is that it was staged, same with Chicago’s police not removing protesters from campuses. These people have orders and hierarchies. It is very to see them when you follow the money.

    Conspiracy theories were once considered the domain of crazy people and rare besides. But not everyone who thinks Hillary and IRS burned up their servers or destroyed emails, is now a conspiracist in that sense.

  67. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Enjoy the war, Americans.

    It’s something that not even the mighty US President can stop. Civil War 2 is inevitable.

    And people thought the zombie apoc preppers were fing retards… heh.

  68. Ymar Sakar Says:

    MollyNH Says:
    August 15th, 2017 at 9:29 pm
    Guess those are merely cops to Bill., after all he voted Obama & we all know Obama hates police & soldiers & capitalists & Christians & America, in the same way that Trump loves those guys, but not his fault he just voted, Doncha know. Lol.

    If Bill voted Hussein, I would have been the first ones to help him destroy his own credibility here.

    As for the police, Bill and JJ were actually some of the more moderate voices here.

  69. Big Maq Says:

    “Trump, just shut the F**k Up, listen to your staff, everybody hates Nazis and not everybody hates the lefty protestors, especially the media. Learn how to say something like, “This is a terrible thing that happened and I know that those responsible will be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.” And then shut the F**K Up when you screw up don’t try to explain because as any lawyer will tell you, anything you say can and will be used against you. – OldTexan

    Thanks. We need more folks saying this.

    And, that last bit is especially true.

    It takes a very skilled team to make it work, and even then no guarantees.

    Winging it and not coordinating the messaging and narrative beforehand is almost always a losing proposition.

  70. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Nobody gets to tell Trum what to do, except his clan. As Hussein had with Michelle and Valerie.

    Once you give power to a King, move over and shut up, it’s over for you. You don’t get a say. That is what it means to give up power to DC.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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