August 16th, 2017

The “Trump defends white supremacists” meme is now set in stone

If you read the news at all, you noticed the explosion of the meme, but here’s are some examples.

If you want to know what Trump actually said, take a look [emphasis mine]:

OK. Good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave-owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people, and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.

OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers…

I think it’s crystal clear that he’s exempting the neo-Nazis from this praise as “fine people.” But that doesn’t matter, does it, to the narrative?

He also said there was violence on both sides. It’s true; there was. The violence between the protesters was very much on both sides. But the violence of one person, Fields, that resulted in the death of a young woman, was only on one side: the neo-Nazi side.

Trump is somewhat inarticulate and his statements are often unclear enough that they’re easy to twist. That’s one of many, many, many reasons I did not want him to be the Republican nominee. In addition, he has sometimes in the past winked at the so-called alt-right and its more extreme white supremacist wing (I wrote about this during the campaign but am in a hurry right now and don’t have time to search for the links). And his initial statement on Charlottesville was flat-footed and tone-deaf and left out way too much.

That said, I have never seen evidence of racism on his part. What’s more, there is literally nothing the man could say that would placate his enemies.

The MSM/liberal/left narrative was set long ago—Trump, as well as all Republicans, are racists. That latter part of the narrative long predated Trump. Unfortunately, however, certain aspects of Trump’s personality and definitely aspects of some of his supports feed into it, and the recent Charlottesville events are tailor-made for the MSM to run with the intensification of the previously-set narrative. You can feel their glee, which is almost palpable.

How effective is it in convincing people that Trump is a white supremacist and a dangerous dangerous man, and that Republicans are racists too? I still don’t know, but my answer is “somewhat effective.”

132 Responses to “The “Trump defends white supremacists” meme is now set in stone”

  1. j e Says:

    Like me, Michael Kochin at AmericanGreatness is willing to entertain the possibility that Fields (admittedly an unappealing character possibly suffering from mental instability) was reacting to the chaos around him and acted irrationally not out of malice or hatred but from panic and fear. Until the trial begins we cannot know, but the MSM’s desire to convict him as a right-wing version of an ISIS jihadist before the facts have been gathered is irresponsible and unwarranted.

  2. DNW Says:

    I think that it is important to face the fact that just as liberal policies know no limits, neither do liberal moral goalposts have any set place, but exist only in order to be perpetually moved to the left.

    G.B, among others has mentioned human nature as an impediment moral or otherwise to the success of this project.

    That may be. But it is clear that the left does not believe in a human nature and that its peculiar evolutionary paradigm is not based on smarter, healthier, happier, but on an emergence of man into something else more or less entirely.

    They push not for the recognition of a universal standard of justice which once realized can be set aside as “done” and we all then go on with our lives, but for an always changing sensitivity on the path to becoming something else again.

    There is no satisfying them. And it is intentional. Only the end of history, or of man as we know him, will satisfy.

  3. Sam L. Says:

    This is why we do not trust the enemedia, or believe anything they publish.

  4. physicsguy Says:

    With McConnell and Kaisich now sounding just like Democrats on this issue, and the CEOs abandoning the council, I think things are really coming to a head. We are watching a slow motion coup being pushed hard by the left/MSM. The first shot was fired at Scalise, the second is going to be Charlottesville. The fuse is burning and every time it may burn itself out, someone relights it. This is going to be bad.

  5. Otiose Says:

    Somewhat effective. I agree with all above. When I saw a segment on the weekend on CNN and the reporter identified all the protesters as ‘white supremacists’ I cringed for the reasons outlined above. The Left tilted media was deliriously tickled with how this went down.

    However, while this particular episode is new the Left and the media have been pushing the idea that anyone who disagrees with open borders, affirmative action etc is racist, ignorant and conservative for decades. and it has been effective…up until Trump. Trump took illegal immigration and free trade and squared the political circle overcoming all opposition to get to the WH. The people who elected him are well aware that affirmative action is itself racism, not opposition to it, and that free trade has costs, and open borders kills jobs for people already here legally.

    One thing we can count on is that the media will overplay this. They have not convinced people that opposition to open borders is racist, they are winning a media spin cycle. People on the Left will get in people’s faces even more aggressively labeling them as deplorable for opposing the Left’s view on whatever issue. Not likely to work.

  6. Yann Says:

    I use to say one thing: be careful with unexpected consequences.

    If Trump is a white supremacist and a dangerous nazi… that means that white supremacists and dangerous nazis are similar to Trump. If Trump is not worse than being a not specially brilliant president… that means that white supremacists and nazis are not that dangerous after all.

    The problem of crying “Wolf!” again and again is that after a while, people don’t care about wolves anymore.

    If you set in stone “Trump defends white supremacists and nazis” you should be careful, because the consequences travel both ways. It makes Trump look more dangerous, but it makes white supremacists look more normal. And it can even make Trump supporters look at white supremacists as something that can’t be that bad after all…

  7. DirtyJobsGuy Says:

    Face the facts, Donald is a terrible businessman, manager and politician. He is a terrific self promoter with the stage presence of a carnival barker. He can read the very lowest instincts of the audience but doesn’t realize that a political press conference is not a staged event. He has to advance the interests of his office, party and the nation not just himself.

    For those who say he is popular because he is not a politician I say bull. Any successful real estate developer has to be a good politician and be able to work with them and the public every day. Trump lost the opportunities for billions feuding with Ed Koch when some accommodation was required. This shows the same self-centered anger which is ultimately self-destructive. He has no philosophical or moral core to fall back on when things get tough. He’s starting to look like General Custer. Vain, Reckless and a good head of hair. It will be the same result.

    I give him less than a year.

  8. Tatterdemalian Says:

    No, it woild have been no different if any other Republican candidate had won the primary, except that Queen Hillary would have the political power of the PotUS, and would already be herding “deplorables” into “deprogramming camps.”

    Trump spent his whole life fighting racism. Calling him “racist” is no different from calling Rosa Parks or Muhammed Ali “racist.” All it does is force the word “racist” to literally mean “anyone that wins an argument with a liberal,” and makes it a badge of honor rather than an epithet.

  9. Cornhead Says:

    I want to hear from the police. This was setup. No way those two groups should have been so close together.

    This has been a disaster for Trump. Massive piling on.

    His sloppy and imprecise speaking is a major problem for Trump. On CNN yesterday the clear narrative was that Trump thought the KKK had “fine people” as members.

  10. Cornhead Says:

    The MSM and some FL GOP Congressman had turned Steve Bannon into the Grand Cyclops of the KKK. This is the same guy who was in the Navy, went to Georgetown and Harvard, worked at Goldman Sachs and lived in Hollywood.

    Pure speculation and character assassination.

  11. Manju Says:

    Trump defended white supremacists.

    Go back to the transcript where Trump talks about “the night before”. You will see him singling out for praise the protesters at Friday night’s tiki torch ceremony. Watch the video (linked above) for context and tone.

    He contrasts them with the “rough, bad people” that show up the next day. “They were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee,” he tells us (of “the night before”) while acknowledging “there were some bad ones” in a manner indicating the bad ones were a clear minority.

    He tells us a ”lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest” (highlight mine) though this could apply to both Friday and Saturday. But since Friday was the more commendable protest in Trumps view, it stands to reason that this is a more apt description of “the night before”.

    He assures us that before he makes statements, he knows the facts. He assures he’s seen the pictures and has the facts.

    Then go look at Friday’s Tiki-Torch Ceremony. What do you see? What do you hear them saying?

  12. AMartel Says:

    Remember when Trump said he liked to grab women by the pussy? And how he hates Mexicans?

    People know the media are not reliable reporters, especially where Trump is concerned.

  13. Ray Says:

    I live in northern Virginia and have been watching the videos of events in Charlottesville and was asking myself why the police weren’t enforcing the law. Virginia has an anti mask law that makes it illegal to wear masks in public, with a few exceptions like Halloween. It was aimed at the KKK with the intention of unmasking them. I saw lots of people with masks and the police were doing nothing. There are stories the Charlottesville Mayor told the police to stand down.

  14. Ymar Sakar Says:

    The Age of Reason is over.

    Now comes the supernatural gods and their direct interventions, what people call miracles, that will determine the fate of Kings and Nations.

  15. n.n Says:

    Trump defends diversity. Over 300 million Americans.

    He rejects the DNC’s establishment… reestablishment of institutional [class] diversity, including: racism, sexism, anti-nativism, “=”, etc.

  16. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Virginia has an anti mask law that makes it illegal to wear masks in public, with a few exceptions like Halloween.

    It might have been difficult for Byrd to put that on in West Virginia, since the KKK was pretty good there with upper level echelon levers.

    I saw lots of people with masks and the police were doing nothing.

    The law is for the powerless and weak. It is not for the elites like KKK Byrd. If he wants to put on a mace and lynch your black buddies, that isn’t really in your power to say anything back.

    That is cost of giving your power to DC and politicians. You don’t have it any more. If you do, then try to enforce the l aw or change the law, see what happens to you, as with the Tea Party. You won’t even make it out of the first quarter round with intact knees.

  17. n.n Says:

    The Age of Reason is over.

    We may have already passed the point of no return with the establishment of the Pro-Choice (e.g. selective, class) Church with a quasi-religious/moral, legal, scientific philosophy informed by emanations from the twilight fringe.

  18. Cornhead Says:

    Ray:

    Someone who works in the Charlottesville police department needs to spill the beans.

  19. Ymar Sakar Says:

    All it does is force the word “racist” to literally mean “anyone that wins an argument with a liberal,” and makes it a badge of honor rather than an epithet.

    Except anyone that can win an argument against the Alt Right is called a cuck.

    Same methodology, as they admitted from Alinsky.

  20. n.n Says:

    Antifa fascists vs neo-national socialists. [class] diversitists vs color supremacists. Left vs Left. Hopefully, the Left will lose.

  21. Oldflyer Says:

    Some have labeled the past six months as a slow motion coup. I cannot argue with that. The problem for those who are instigating this is that, historically, the aftermath of the original coup is unpredictable. As prescient observers have commented, the most common result of government (or in this case anti-government action) is unintended consequences.

    I have said before, that personally, I do not understand the fault with anything Trump said. There were more than one faction culpable in Charlottesville; and it is simply dishonest to deny that. At this point, I am not even convinced that the one bearing the brunt of the blame was the most culpable. It would be helpful if there were an investigation that we could trust, followed by a statement of the facts. Instead, we have a rush to judgement based on labels that are assigned rather indisciminately.

    I also believe that Governor Mcauliffe, the Mayor of Charlottesville, and the Police Commanders should be held accountable for their actions. A permit was issued. A state of emergency was declared. The permit was revoked at the last possible moment–by whom? Then the two conflicting groups were herded together, while the police were initially passive. Who orchestrated all of that?

  22. Liz Says:

    11.”If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive. Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.” Alinsky

    Of course, the media is helping the cause but it looks like this rule was attained this weekend. Antifa will never be considered to be a violent organization, by the left and the media.

    Laura Ingraham had a tweet that mentioned the number of things named after Byrd in W.V. and asked if those were going to be renamed. The responses from the left all claimed that Byrd did that in his youth, that he repented, and did good in his life after that period.

    I guess redemption is only for Ds.

  23. Dave Says:

    “The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists (ANTIFA)” – Winston Churchill

  24. Ann Says:

    How effective is it in convincing people that Trump is a white supremacist and a dangerous dangerous man, and that Republicans are racists too?

    Trump’s having no problem with those white-shirted, khaki-clad guys carrying torches and chanting “blood and soil” on Friday night is pretty much all that’s needed to convince anyone. Which is why many Republicans are some of the loudest voices calling Trump out on saying: “But they were there to protest, excuse me, you take a look the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.” Heck, the Democrat’s campaign videos are probably already made about it.

  25. AesopFan Says:

    DirtyJobsGuy Says:
    August 16th, 2017 at 2:58 pm
    Face the facts, Donald is a terrible businessman, manager and politician. He is a terrific self promoter with the stage presence of a carnival barker. He can read the very lowest instincts of the audience but doesn’t realize that a political press conference is not a staged event. He has to advance the interests of his office, party and the nation not just himself.

    For those who say he is popular because he is not a politician I say bull. Any successful real estate developer has to be a good politician and be able to work with them and the public every day. Trump lost the opportunities for billions feuding with Ed Koch when some accommodation was required. This shows the same self-centered anger which is ultimately self-destructive. He has no philosophical or moral core to fall back on when things get tough. He’s starting to look like General Custer. Vain, Reckless and a good head of hair. It will be the same result.

    I give him less than a year.
    * *
    Face the facts, Barack is a terrible scholar, community organizer, and legislator. He is a terrific self promoter with the stage presence of a snake oil salesman. He can read the very lowest instincts of the media but insists that a political press conference be a staged event. He has to advance the interests of his office, party and the nation not just himself.

    For those who say he is popular because he is not a politician I say bull. Any successful community organizer has to be a good politician and be able to work with them and the public every day. Obama lost the opportunities for racial progress by feuding with “bitter clingers” when some accommodation was required. This shows the same self-centered anger which is ultimately self-destructive. He has no philosophical or moral core to fall back on when things get tough. He’s starting to look like General Custer. Vain, Reckless and a good head of hair. It will be the same result.

    I give him less than a year.
    * *
    Obama lasted 16.

  26. Irv Says:

    The whole purpose of the first amendment is to protect unpopular speech; popular speech doesn’t need protection. People who want to ban “hate” speech are worse than the people doing the “hate” speech because they’re a threat to the Constitution and to the Republic. The people doing the “hate” speech are fringe groups with no power, political or otherwise, to hurt anyone. Trump knows this…do you?

    The remedy for “hate” speech is more speech, not banning speech.

  27. Dave Says:

    Can i start a ANTIFA type organization called ANTICOMMIE? why it is okay to beat up nazis but not to beat up Commies?

  28. Yankee Says:

    It may not matter, because the Left absolutely hates President Trump. They are unwilling to listen to anything that he says. They are unable to learn anything, and incapable of understanding something new. This has been non-stop since June of 2015. It won’t end. (And part of understanding that is knowing that it is not Mr. Trump alone, it’s also the bigger course of events.)

    Right now, all this means for me is that I just hit the mute button on the TV whenever the media covers Mr. Trump. The media just has no perspective. Wasn’t there something that happened in Manchester, UK a few months ago? How quickly they forget.

    There are two things to look for in the time ahead. The first would be any future demonstrations, protests, and marches, and if there is any violence at such, and what the police and local governments do. The second concerns the 2018 mid-term elections, with what the Democrats may do, and what the actual results turn out to be.

  29. OldTexan Says:

    The looney left has new let law and logic get in the way of telling and selling a good moral high ground story and this was made to order for TV.

    Tiki Torch Parade defending slave owner Robert E. Lee looking like KKK and maybe have some KKK with, wait for it, New Nazis thrown in, flags and all. The next day a legally permitted protest runs into a complete ambush set up by the governor, a master Dem manipulator with the help of the mayor with predictable head bashing on the legal protestors. That is what I discern to be the truth and should be the story however what was supposed be a Social Justice moment, clash of good and evil for TV became a media bonus.

    Using alliteration which our man in the White House likes from time to time. Nervous, Nutty, New Nazi, Nitwit NASCAR driver crashes into wonderful Social Justice Warrior who put her life on the line protesting KKK and Nazis and she is killed in the line of duty.

    There is the truth when good old getting his life together Skittles smashes a guys head into the concrete and gets shot and then there is the media story where justice was not served because the shooter, after all sorts of legal procedures is cleared. Truth and media truth are not the same.

    What I know and most Neo readers know of the whole story is not what a good deal of the nation knows in their heart to be true. Today they only know that the bad guys in their eyes were defended several times by Trump, in kind of a clumsy manner, for exercising their rights to protest which the lefties don’t recognize as rights when it makes them feel bad about slaves and poor people and puppies and stuff.

    I still like most of what Trump has done and hope he gets back in his office and keeps on doing the good stuff like appointing judges and cleaning up really bad regulations but I am worried about his ability to be effective when he makes what I see to be incredibly bad media mistakes.

    He needs to be quiet and start thinking long term and only make carefully thought out statements for the rest of his term in office. The tweety bird thing worked rather well until it didn’t.

  30. M J R Says:

    OldTexan, 6:26 pm — “He needs to be quiet and start thinking long term and only make carefully thought out statements for the rest of his term in office.”

    Cue Buddy Holly: “That’ll Be The Day.”

    (Linda Ronstadt for you young’uns.)

  31. M J R Says:

    The neo-nazi retard who rammed his car into the crowd is morally equivalent to the Sanders-supporting retard who shot at the Republican congressman at baseball practice. Both were/are ideological turds doing their parts. Both were acting as lone agents, although both were in service to a larger cause.

    (No, I am *not* saying Sanders is morally equivalent to a neo-nazi, although many Sanders people, now called antifa, are certainly fascist** in their actions.)

    ** no, no, not fascist in a strict economic sense but definitely fascist in an intolerant, mob rule sense

    In the former case, it’s all Trump’s fault (Bush and Palin are off the hook now, sports fans). In the latter case, it was an unfortunate lone agent [sarcasm].

    Now . . .

    The neo-nazis obtained a permit to demonstrate and voice their hideous position.

    The counter-protesters did *not*. They were a spontaneous gathering (if you truly believe that, I have a bridge to sell you).

    The police did not bother to separate the two groups. This is something police do in this sort of situation.

    The mayor of Charlottesville (a college town, and you know what that means politically) and the governor of Virginia (a member of the extended Clinton klan) are both Democrats. Both can be counted on to detest Trump and both can be counted on to wink at anything that can result in creating mayhem.

    And so it happened. The car-ramming retard was unanticipated, but the rest was very anticipatable.

    Trump is inarticulate [understatement]. Even if he were supremely articulate, the mainstreamers would twist whatever he said into something that furthers their narrative. (Had Trump said and done everything his critics would insist he ought to have said and done, they would accuse him of insincerity and being a phony.) As it was, Trump was his usual stoopid-mouthed self, as usual not helping his cause (such as it is).

    So the slow-motion coup continues to gather steam.

    Civil War II is underway.

  32. Oldflyer Says:

    Well said Irv. Unfortunately, few will listen.

  33. OldTexan Says:

    M J R –
    Exactly and I have great apprehension where this will lead – Civil War II – and the media are playing this so well that Trump will next be reported as saying he can see Russia, which he disavows, from his front porch.

  34. Fractal Rabbit Says:

    First rule of the Trump Presidency:

    Don’t believe any story the Mainstream Media runs about Trump.

    Second rule of the Trump Presidency;

    Don’t believe ANY STORY the Mainstream Media runs about Trump.

    This isn’t difficult and I see plenty of people (who should be smarter) swayed by the left and the MSM’s Alinskyite use of rhetoric than I should be seeing.

    Supposedly smart people keep proving Aristotle right; you just can’t instruct some people.

    The reality is Trump (whether he’s The God Emperor of the Alt-Right or Hitler’s Boy From Brazil with carrot dyed hair), could be a Master Orator. President Donald J. Trump could be a product of Super Science, combining the DNA of Winston Churchill and F%^&ing Marcus Tullius Cicero into the most honey tongued Godzilla of Demogogues the world has ever seen.

    It would all be for naught.

    The Media and their accomplices would cherry pick his speeches and appearances for just the right sound bite while making sure to drown the context out with the combined white-noise of constant Trans-Jenner updates and Lena Dunham Twitter re-splurgitations.

    F*&%. That. Noise.

    Trump isn’t a Nazi, neo or otherwise. He’s not a white-supremacist. He’s probably not even a very decent man, though he’s probably more decent than 99.999999% of the entrenched Deep State-Shallow State-Media Complex.

    But he is the President.

    And right now, while the nattering naybobs of negativity clutch their pearls at the very sound of Trump’s voice emanating from Fox & CNN’s sound clips, a concerted effort is deliberately using that same distraction (and using the Easily Offended of every political stripe) to bring down a lawfully elected President.

    That is the game folks, played before your very eyes.

    Refuse to play.

  35. Sean Says:

    Can i start a ANTIFA type organization called ANTICOMMIE?

    By all means.

  36. neo-neocon Says:

    Ann:

    You write “Trump’s having no problem with those white-shirted, khaki-clad guys carrying torches and chanting ‘blood and soil’ on Friday night…”

    Why do you say he had “no problem” with them? He’s condemned them many times, both in the quotes I highlighted in this post and in the remarks I wrote about here.

    Trump said:

    Racism is evil — and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans…Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America,

    How does that constitute “having no problem” with such people? I really fail to understand what you’re getting at.

  37. neo-neocon Says:

    Ann:

    And “they” WERE there to protest the taking down of the statue, and had a permit. The “they” we are referring to is not a unitary group, it was several groups, some of them quite mainstream and some neo-Nazis. That’s been clear for quite some time, and Trump tried to make it clear that he was talking about the former group and not the latter in the quotes I used in this post.

    So, are you saying that it cannot be mentioned that some of these people protesting and marching were peaceful and mainstream and some were not? The truth cannot be mentioned because it looks bad and can be misunderstood and twisted?

    As I said, I’m puzzled by what you’re getting at here. If you’re just saying Trump didn’t come down strongly enough on the neo-Nazi element in his very first remarks, I’m in agreement there. But what else are you trying to say? Because I can’t make sense of what you’ve written.

  38. Big Maq Says:

    “How effective is it in convincing people that Trump is a white supremacist and a dangerous dangerous man, and that Republicans are racists too? I still don’t know, but my answer is “somewhat effective.” – Neo

    Come now.

    Decrying the left / msm for what they do is like decrying the summer heat in texas.

    There are means to deal with / mitigate the problem if one chooses to live in that environment.

    At what point, does trump own the circumstances he is in?
    .

    If this were the ONLY incident that put a question mark on trump on this, we could, indeed, lay it at the feed of the left / msm for pushing a hyped up meme about trump.

    The core of trump’s current problem is that he’s been playing “footsie” with the alt-r, and other aligned / affiliated groups by courting themes that appeal to that crowd, while being relatively weak in distancing himself from them.

    String that all together, with his doubling down since his “denouncement”, and his mutability since day one, he may not himself demonstrate specific traits he is being accused of, but he is definitely NOT helping his case either – seems hell bent on helping them, imho.

    So, we are either to conclude that trump is not innocent of the charges, or is colossally incompetent.

    We ought to be disturbed by either conclusion.

  39. neo-neocon Says:

    manju:

    Take a look at the comments above this one that I just addressed to Ann. In addition, from Trump’s press conference:

    You had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group, excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park, from Robert E. Lee to another name…

    But you had many people in that group other than neo Nazis and white nationalists, ok? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly…

    There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before, if you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people. Neo Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.

    Are you saying he was wrong and that on Friday the group was totally neo-Nazi? It is certainly true that there was a neo-Nazi presence that got a LOT of publicity. The photos and videos and newspaper stories are about them, or course. But the original description of Friday night was that it was to consist of “White nationalists and other right-wing groups.” My impression, at least so far, is that Trump was pointing out that the neo-Nazis (whom he condemned) were only a portion of the people there, and that there were others there for more peaceful and less objectionable reasons.

    His remarks are sloppy and somewhat confusing to parse, as usual. But I think your reading that he somehow preferred the Friday group seems incorrect to me, particularly in light of the very clear words of condemnation he issued.

    If in fact there were no people other than neo-Nazis demonstrating on Friday (although I’m not sure how we could know that for sure), then his remarks probably indicate a lack of awareness of that fact rather than some sort of praise of neo-Nazis, when in fact he has condemned them in quite harsh terms several times.

  40. neo-neocon Says:

    Big Maq:

    That Trump is verbally unclear (an incompetent speaker when speaking impromptu), to his detriment, is hardly news. We’ve talked about it here for 2 years, and been VERY disturbed by it and seen it as a very likely cause of trouble. So why do you say that we should be disturbed, as though we haven’t expressed those thoughts before?

    I’ve been disturbed by it—and many other things about Trump—since he announced his candidacy in 2015.

  41. Manju Says:

    Why do you say he had “no problem” with them? He’s condemned them many times…How does that constitute “having no problem” with such people?

    Neo…It’s the denialism-form of Nazi Sympathizing. Trump is denying that what occurred on Friday night, the “white-shirted, khaki-clad guys carrying torches and chanting ‘blood and soil’ “ as Ann says are Nazi’s, Klansmen, etc.

    Go back to the transcript and the video and watch / read the passages where Trump says “the night before”. He’s referring to the Tiki Torch ceremony…what every person with one iota of knowledge of American History or Nazi imagery can plainly see as a Klan / Neo Nazi ceremony. If there’s any doubt liisten to what they say about Jews.

    Trump singles out this rally for commendation.

  42. Ann Says:

    Neo,

    I looked at several videos of that Friday night march and all I’ve seen are torch bearers and chanters, and I don’t see how anyone not a neo-Nazi would be associated with them. If Trump saw that and still said they were some nice folks there on Friday night, he’s got a problem.

  43. Manju Says:

    Are you saying he was wrong and that on Friday the group was totally neo-Nazi?

    Neo…I’m saying it was clearly a White Supremacist march. Neo-Nazis fit that description, as do the Klan, as would someone like Strom Thurmond, who was never a Nazi and actually fought the Klan (and the poll tax, believe it or not). But of course he was a White Supremacist.

    …But the original description of Friday night was that it was to consist of “White nationalists and other right-wing groups.”

    I don’t see how this helps you. The article you cite opens up with; “White nationalists descended Friday night on the University of Virginia campus with burning tiki torches…”

    It was a plain as day modern “Klan” rally.

  44. Dave Says:

    Looking more and more like Reichstag fire again, don’t be surprised if more news come out about the driver and the organisers, don’t know if people still care about the truth though. That loser doesn’t strike me as someone who can afford a challenger at 20.

  45. Dave Says:

    And his mom’s “he told me he was attending a trump rally, trump isn’t racist” response sounded very suspicious and staged. That man only got charged of 2nd degree murder was weird, it should have been at least first degree, something is not right. perhaps someone hired him to do it to frame trump, while promising him a light sentence, funny he is 20, right before 21. If the police cut him a deal the he is lightly a hired gun. I have no proof at all, just theories, you can call me conspiracy theorist.

  46. Dave Says:

    His mom might not be in on the setup, but he had told his mom that he was going to attend a trump rally so that would be what his mom tell the cops. If the driver somehow commits suicide or goes away in any suspicious way then he definitely was a hired gun. Very rarely a terrorist does kill himself before he gets caught, the whole thing is weird.

  47. Dave Says:

    Of course any suspicion on what truly took place that is different from the official story will be discredited as conspiracy theory, the deflect it all deep state premium weapon

  48. The Other Chuck Says:

    BigMag:

    The core of trump’s current problem is that he’s been playing “footsie” with the alt-r, and other aligned / affiliated groups by courting themes that appeal to that crowd, while being relatively weak in distancing himself from them.

    Where did you get that meme, from Kos, Thinkprogress, TheNation, MichaelMoore, or CounterPunch? Distill down the crap you wrote about “courting themes” to dog whistle. We’ve heard it all before, many many times. Gag.

    I’ve been as big a critic of Trump as anyone here. Recently I compared his personality to Kaiser Wilhelm. But this is not about anything Trump said or should have said. It is about the the continuing destruction of this country, its history and its institutions, by God Damned Leftist scum. Get it?

  49. Dave Says:

    DOJ needs to step in, threaten to charge him with a hate crime with a possible death penalty to make him talk. No 20 year olds with a challenges will use their beloved cars to plow anyone.

  50. J.J. Says:

    Can’t add anything much to the conversation. Not that everything has been covered, but most of it. Certainly not an echo chamber. Shows how diverse points of view can be discussed without ad hominem.

    Neo, I wish you had a way for people to vote on comments. I especially liked what Irv had to say. Why both popular and unpopular speech need to be defended is a principle well worth remembering. When the blood heats up, we often forget that it is a basic principle of our Constitution.

  51. TheOmnivore Says:

    In case you’re wondering why that narrative is set–here’s why: He sure sounded like he was defending Nazis

  52. JK Brown Says:

    What is interesting is how easily they got so many Republicans and others to say deny the truth that both sides were engaged in violence. I understand this is an old Soviet staple.

  53. JK Brown Says:

    “No 20 year olds with a challenges will use their beloved cars to plow anyone.”

    Unless they are panicked out of fear and trying to escape a threatening crowd.

    I want to see the crash report. Which vehicle caused the injuries and death. Was it his directly or the minivan being pushed into people?

    2nd degree murder means they couldn’t at the time of his arraignment attach malice aforethought to his actions. Right now they can only reach that he intentionally drove his car into the crowd, not that he planned to do it.

  54. Ann Says:

    No threatening crowd — watch the video.

  55. FOAF Says:

    Did anyone ever demand Obama denounce Al Sharpton, who has incited nearly a dozen racial murders? Or BLM? Just asking.

  56. TheOmnivore Says:

    Here’s the Klan’s recorded message on the Charlottesville death:

    “Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one [expletive]-lover named Heather Heyer,” the recorded message says. “James Fields hail victory. It’s men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again.”

    Would any of the (imaginary) “good people” have marched with that? Ask yourself–you don’t have to tell me–but you know in your heart what’s true.

  57. neo-neocon Says:

    TheOmnivore:

    Of course they wouldn’t—if they knew in advance that’s who they were marching with and what those people really stood for. Why are you assuming they knew?

    The march was originally billed as a coming-together of the right to protest the destruction of the statue. I don’t consider it so hard to believe that there were some people there who had remained ignorant of what it had morphed into, and of who would actually be there, and of what vileness they were capable of.

    If so, they’re not ignorant of it anymore, though.

  58. TheOmnivore Says:

    Neo, have you *see* the graphic for the march? Do you know who the *headliner* speaker is? He’s the guy who runs The Daily Shoah.

    Now, I’m sure u don’t know what ‘Shoah’ means–I guess that’s kind of specialized knowledge, right? A good southerner could be excused for joining a rally headlining the guy who runs The Daily Holocaust?

    Right? Right? Alt-Right?

  59. neo-neocon Says:

    TheOmnivore:

    Of course I know what Shoah means, and I believe you know I know. You are fast becoming a troll—or at least sounding like one, with remarks like that.

    I didn’t attend the rally, you know, and I don’t have any truck with white supremacists or neo-Nazis, whom I hate.

    But you are continuing to make assumptions about the people who did. I have no idea whether Trump is correct that there were some relatively innocent people on the right who attended (nor do you), but I don’t find it at all hard to believe that there were. Do all people know the background, or what the images on the poster mean or conjure up? Of course not.

    It is certainly possible that some people merely heard there would be a rally to protest the destruction of the statue, and attended for that reason without knowing what they were getting into. My personal opinion is that this group was overshadowed in number by the neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

  60. TheOmnivore Says:

    Do you think Trump has inside knowledge of good people attending the rally? People who, when they showed up, chanting literal nazi slogans, stood by for the sake of protecting their southern heritage?

    You became a Republican because you figured out the Democrats were lying to you. Take a hard look at your position on this–please!

  61. neo-neocon Says:

    TheOmnivore:

    I originally read some pieces by people who professed to be in exactly that position—innocently there to protest the statue destruction, surprised at all the neo-Nazis and at the violence, including the violence from the counter-protesters, and trapped and unable to escape in time to avoid it. I didn’t note where I read this, and so I can’t give the link, but it’s irrelevant because we don’t know whether they are telling the truth or lying.

    I think Trump was told there were some people there like that, or he assumed it, or he read some of the pieces I had read and believed them. He may certainly have been mistaken, but that’s a different problem. He has also condemned the white supremacists and neo-Nazis (in remarks made last Monday) in strong and unequivocal terms.

    You continue to make assumptions about me that are incorrect, by the way. I’m not a Republican, for example. I’m a conservative and somewhat of a libertarian. And I certainly don’t think Democrats are the only ones who lie. I’m no Trump fan, either, but I think he’s being wrongly accused in this particular case.

  62. TheOmnivore Says:

    Neo,
    1. He was speaking VERY specifically about Friday night–when there was no serious violence. (you can read my link, it covers all this).

    2. We’ve got footage from Friday night and everything showing hundreds of chanting (literal nazi slogans) marchers surrounding some (unmaksed) students.

    He said they were protesting quietly. How far are you going to go into these assumed “good people” (who, apparently stood with the tiki-nazis chanting Blood and Soil??). Can you really stretch yourself that far?

    And, yes–I did read your bio-pieces–I shouldn’t have called you a Republican. I won’t be one either any more when I get to changing my voter registration.

  63. Fractal Rabbit Says:

    I read these comments by Big Maq, Ann, Omnivore, et al and realize the Trolls, Concern or Otherwise, are having the desired effect;

    Their comments have reached critical mass and have begun to sustain themselves. People who are not likely trolls are beginning to sound like them, repeating their talking points like Journolists.

  64. neo-neocon Says:

    TheOmnivore:

    He made it clear he condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists. He also seems to think that there were other types of people there. Neither you nor I know whether that’s true. Perhaps he’s mistaken, but that doesn’t make him a supporter of white supremacists. It makes him Trump, with whom I disagree quite often and who is often mistaken.

    But he could be correct. Have you ever gone to a rally and it turned into something you didn’t expect and didn’t like? I have, back in college. I also once got trapped in a demonstration that began to turn dangerous (a peace demonstration, I might add, so it was not as represented). Fortunately I wasn’t hurt. But I remember the feeling, as well as how difficult it was to get away from that crowd. They had a different agenda than I did.

  65. TheOmnivore Says:

    1. In this case (look at the flyer) it’s literally a Nazi rally. Our hypothetical good-person could only have gone by word of mouth or something.

    2. It didn’t “turn bad” or “turn dangerous.” It was a disciplined neo-nazi march with torches–from the start.

    You don’t credit Obama with “boiler-plate” denials or the addition of nuance in his speech (as he always did). Why are you crediting Trump here? He claimed he had “all the facts”–that he waited for them. If he knows about “good people” couldn’t he find some??

  66. neo-neocon Says:

    TheOmnivore:

    You are assuming they would have or should have inevitably seen that flyer prior to the rally, and also that they understood it if in fact they saw it.

    And if a person is there and trapped in a crowd, it can “turn bad” right away and that person can still have trouble getting away. Or maybe people did get away. Or perhaps they ran into the counter-protestors when they tried to get away.

    Also, the flyer was about Saturday, wasn’t it? And weren’t you talking about what Trump said about Friday?

    I’m not crediting Trump with anything. I certainly don’t think he had all the facts, whether he says he did or not. He’s a blowhard who often makes false claims, and I’ve written about that sort of thing since his candidacy began. We don’t know on what he’s basing this particular claim; maybe his imagination, maybe some things he read (perhaps similar to the things I read), maybe something else. But none of that makes him sympathetic to neo-Nazis or white supremacists. Nothing in his remarks indicates that to me.

  67. AMartel Says:

    All this hysteria over a failure to adequately virtue signal.

  68. AMartel Says:

    We are being overrun by Nazis and racists.
    They’re the ones who are loudly and ostentatiously denouncing Nazis and racists.

  69. Tatterdemalian Says:

    Yeah, that flyer looks a lot like this bullcrap the left has been trying to meme since Trump announced his presidential run. Even having copies posted all over the city wouldn’t have bothered me, I’d assume they were leftist agitprop just like the link above.

    Actions speak louder than words. The violence didn’t start until Antifa attacked the peaceful Tiki rally, and the “Nazis” fought back only in self-defense. Too bad for Antifa they were better at it, but hey, at least now Antifa has its Rachel Corrie to rally behind.

  70. Big Maq Says:

    “It is about the the continuing destruction of this country, its history and its institutions, by God Damned Leftist scum.” – Other Chuck

    Look, I am aware of this, and agree – more below.

    Also, it seems I’ve struck some sort of emotional cord with you, wherein you accuse me of positions not even close to where I stand.
    .

    We agree on this point, but seem to disagree how we get there.

    I’m arguing that if all we do is play the blue vs red team politics, we will be guaranteed to lose our democracy.
    .

    trump somehow thought, on first instinct, that he needed to be “cautious” about denouncing the more extreme and/or racist elements of his support, in the face of an awful incident.

    Sure, he came back some days later to be explicit in distancing himself. But, he then returned to his original message.

    He may be earnest in his latest attempt at a nuanced position. But, his distancing was scripted, whereas his unscripted from the hip responses were more “authentic”. Plus, his history and mutability just makes it impossible to take him at his scripted word, at this point.

    You don’t like the term “footsie” – fine. But, there IS context where trump has been more than simply not clear about distancing himself from these themes.

    Just one example – his condemnation of the American born judge with a Spanish surname, as somehow “obviously” (to trump) unable to render an objective opinion, solely because of his heritage. There are several more examples to point to.

    We ignore / divert our eyes to the left again, or explain / rationalize away this at our own peril.
    .

    This kind of thing plays very well to some core of his base.

    HOWEVER, it is not making any headway beyond his base.

    Tell me different, if you think this incorrect.

    And, tell me how that is moving the ball forward on getting what we think needs to be done in the next four years.

    And, tell me how that positions the GOP for a win in 2018 and 2020.

  71. Big Maq Says:

    “So why do you say that we should be disturbed, as though we haven’t expressed those thoughts before?” – Neo

    If we are worried about a G-March, seems to me that, oddly, our focus and piling on the left / msm while ignoring the context of how trump has a hand in how this is all playing out is not serving us well.

    If trump doesn’t or won’t change, then forget getting much progress on the agenda we want.

    Who is trump listening to, if not his base? How will he know he ought to change?
    .

    Who is going to listen to us if all we have to say lately is focused on the bad of the left and the msm?

    To this audience, it is obvious this is so.

    It is not clear to me that this audience sees that trump’s weakness are “a very likely cause of trouble”, least not enough to motivate a clear call for him to change.

  72. Cap'n Rusty Says:

    Omnivore, Chew on this:

    Voltaire said (more or less), “I abhor what you are saying, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.” Trump, somewhat less eloquently(!), espoused the core of that concept.

    The premise of free speech is that all ideas may be aired, even those which some find reprehensible. With free and open discourse, the citizens are able to distinguish the bad ideas from the good. After all, in a democracy, it is the citizens who must decide by whom they shall be ruled; discourse among them is vital. Demagogues progress to tyranny by demanding, by force if necessary, that some words never be spoken. Usually, they do this in the guise of “protecting” the citizens.

  73. Jim Doherty Says:

    Neo do not concern yourself with that omnivore guy. I followed his link, and he straight up lied, like the MSM, about the term and usage of the “alt left”. That whole ignorance of the term has been blown up today, after several links showing writers at salon, NYT times etc etc used them in recent months.

    If he will use that lie as a base of his whole argument…..

    And as Obama liked to say, “Let’s be perfectly clear”, if you build an argument, and one pillar of which is a demonstrable lie, then your whole argument goes down in flames. Once I spot a lie, I must question what else you are lying about and why.

  74. Dave Says:

    This was clearly a setup, a hoax alt-right group created by the left doing bad things to delegitimize the right as a whole. Whatever Trump did was not as damaging as what Romney has done, apologizing for things that the right didn’t commit. When you take responsibility for bad things you did not commit the stigma will forever stick with you. Last month on here I asked the question why the Republicans are viewed as the racist party in general, now I understand how the left did it. a hoax group created by the left in the name of the Right with no other purposes other than framing the right by committing bad things with this hoax group, then use the MSM to stigmatize it.
    I understand that many on here are hesitant to defend the alt-right, but you are defending alt-right, you are defending yourself and the right as a whole. if you truly believe you are on the right side of history you also have to believe even the worst elements on our side is not as bad as the worst elements on the other side. Stop surrendering and let the left smears you with hoaxes.

    I will list a few things that had raised my suspicion that this is a hoax, I am pretty I am being captain obvious here:

    Alt-righters would never hold a rally called Unite-the-Right or something like that, that name is as big a give away as it comes to prove this is a set up. Alt-righters hate the C**k as much as the left they would never call to join forces with rest of the right who they see as c**ks.

    Most Alt-right don’t know who Robert Lee is, Alt-right is a intellectual movement popular among youngsters and Europeans, the Robert Lee they know is the soccer player who used to play for Newcastle.

  75. Dave Says:

    It is the democrats who keep preaching that just because a group claims to be in a certain ideology doesn’t they are. According to them ISIS is not Islam even when they call themselves Islamic State and Nazi is not socialism just because they call themselves socialist, then why do the right needs to accept that whatever this alt-right group is right just because they call themselves “right”

  76. Dave Says:

    appeasers like Romney or Maccain just fold every time when Democrats bluff by throwing at them a bad name, apologizing is the worst strategy and did nothing but cementize republicans’ notoriety as the racist party.

  77. DNW Says:

    Let us now praise famous men … or not.

    Piss on them. Or rather I’ll piss on yours and celebrate mine, and we can forget all about this troublesome business of “building a ‘we'” … which is all, even the moist sensitive and panting conservative, must admit is an indisputably proto-fascist business.

    So, let’s forget about “honoring” or even respecting those threadbare vestiges of so-called nobility supposedly found among the icons of the South. “Nobility” of manner, “magnanimity”, “grace” and like terms are all just emblems of fascism anyway.

    But let us be thorough, and tear down the statues of that miscreant slaughtering murderer John Brown … he of the bloody broadsword. And probably half of the Union Army officers were, if you read their writings “fascist” too, if their slavering references to one republic, and unity, are any indication.

    I think that antifa has done us all a favor actually. We can quit trying to determine who is really a fascist and just judge the whole lot of them as such … including of course the solidarity pimping organisms of antifa.

    Let’s recognize that we are really enemies … deeply … fundamentally … irreconcilably and existentially.

    And go from there.

  78. Frog Says:

    I have never had ANY trouble understanding Trump’s words.
    Neither should any of you. But I fear you act out of reflex, like the media. Though the MSM has a hateful pro-Dem, anti-American bias.
    The WSJ uses the terms ‘white nationalist’ and ‘white supremacist’ interchangeably, never defining the former.

  79. Sharon W Says:

    Some time ago, “art” presented a history of the groups that promoted starting a race-war as an objective (Black Panthers, Weather Underground, etc). Leftists haven’t changed their objective and that is what we are witnessing in the messaged reporting both during Obama’s presidency and now. I’m here in San Francisco with my son who completed his 8 years service as a Marine in October, married in November and we have now welcomed their baby boy born last week. He asked me this morning if we are headed for civil war. If the Leftists have their way, yes.

  80. AesopFan Says:

    DNW Says:
    August 16th, 2017 at 2:08 pm
    I think that it is important to face the fact that just as liberal policies know no limits, neither do liberal moral goalposts have any set place, but exist only in order to be perpetually moved to the left.
    * * *
    If I were a cartoonist, I would draw a picture of a place-kicker aiming the football anywhere other than the end-zone and have his team (and the referees?) moving the goal-post underneath it.

    Here is someone who agrees with the proposition:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/statues-of-limitation.php

    Rich Lowry pointed out that there is a statue in Baltimore of Roger Taney, and lo and behold it was taken down last night. Taney did more than perhaps any other figure to propel the nation into civil war with his reckless decision in Dred Scott that “the negro has no rights which the white man is bound to respect,” which by implication legalized slavery throughout the entire U.S. and prohibited Congress henceforth from stopping its spread in the territories. All that was needed, as Lincoln pointed out, was one more case extending the principle Taney laid out to make slavery legal throughout the North.

    There may be a larger parallel between that time and today. I often like to share with students in class the summation of the defense lawyer in the case of Jacob Gruber, a Methodist minister who was put on trial in Frederick, Maryland, in 1818 on the charge of inciting a slave revolt. Gruber had spoken at a large outdoor meeting in Hagerstown about “the nation sin” of slavery, and as the large audience included several hundred slaves, Gruber was promptly arrested. Gruber’s was exactly the kind of abolitionist speech that Democrats in the 1850s like James Buchanan denounced as causing sectional rifts.

    Here is the climax of the closing argument to the jury that Gruber’s defense attorney offered:
    (RTWT here, it’s very moving, and Gruber was acquitted: BUT)

    Students often assume that Gruber’s lawyer must have been Abraham Lincoln, as his argument sounds so much like Lincoln’s line of argument in the 1850s. Lincoln was precocious, to be sure, but since he was born in 1809, he would have been just nine years old at the time of the Gruber trial.

    No; instead, Gruber’s lawyer was. . . Roger Taney.

    Which leads to the next question: what the hell happened to Taney? That’s a long story, but can be summarized briefly by the proposition that Democrats ceased to believe that slavery was a national sin—indeed they came to believe it was a positive good. (See Calhoun, Alexander Stephens, George Fitzhugh, etc.), and the first version of identity politics was born. In other words, Democrats aren’t that much different today than they were in the 1850s. To put it still one more way, when thinking about what the hell happened to Taney, you can begin to make out parallels to what the hell has happened to Democrats more recently.

  81. AesopFan Says:

    A lot of people are arguing about what happened at the rally (rallies?) because “they saw the videos” — as if what was broadcast on whichever site they watched was the sum total of what occurred.

    I have not, as it happens, watched any videos of anything, because I know that they are carefully selected and edited to make the posters’ points.

    Whoever was shown to be there was there; their motives and antecedents are not on the videos.

    What was shown, happened; its causes and context are not on the videos.

    Whys are not amenable to filming; speculation — on all sides — is driven by ideology and desire.

  82. Ymar Sakar Says:

    I already know what is going on in DC, why the Deep State is creating a Resistance, where BLM comes from, the Soros connection, CERN, the Federal Reserve, and every other “dot” on this little strategic war map.

    Maybe I should put together an analysis so that people can begin to lose their “Surprise” and “Shocked” face.

  83. Sharon W Says:

    Neo has a number of posts regarding the subject of history lately. At Ace’s site a Jeffrey Lord article was linked that relates a concise history of the Democratic party with regard to race policies. If it’s the past that has the average Democrats up in arms, I wonder how they would excuse this.

    https://spectator.org/is-it-time-to-ban-the-democratic-party/

  84. DNW Says:

    Frog Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 10:58 am

    I have never had ANY trouble understanding Trump’s words.
    Neither should any of you. But I fear you act out of reflex, like the media. Though the MSM has a hateful pro-Dem, anti-American bias.

    The WSJ uses the terms ‘white nationalist’ and ‘white supremacist’ interchangeably, never defining the former.”

    The WSJ has its own agenda, as do the opinion writers. The concept of a meta-narrative might be useful here.

    And “Conservatives” of a covertly collective sort, those who recognize that they themselves flog and support a collective identity of one kind or another for their own profit, who network, schmooze, back-slap, caucus off site, etc., are among the most likely to panic since they have the most to hide.

    A libertarian leaning Neo type, hasn’t a pile of baggage he needs to hide behind a public rush to denounce. That person can wait for the facts and for the smoke to clear … he does not have to start bleating immediately to cover his ass.

    McCain, for all the tortures he suffered, is one who must do so.

  85. Ymar Sakar Says:

    AesopFan Says:

    In a previous comment you mentioned that Hussein was a blank slate like Trum is said to be, so Trum would last about as long as Hussein, which is 8 years, unless you count his Senate and Alinsky records… don’t know where 16 came from.

    Hussein was considered the Left’s Messiah, and I knew very well, because I kept probing and testing Republicans, that the Right didn’t have an anti Left coalition and didn’t hate the Left’s Messiah enough. Nor the Left enough. Nor did they realize the dangers of domestic Tranquility in the US leading up to Civil War 1 or 2.

    Trum is a Demoncrat that people put into DC to fight the Left and buy them some time.

    That is because American patriots know they are losing. They just have no idea what to do about it. Everything they have done fails. That is because they are cursed. And it is also because the other side has Lucifer on their side.

    Supernatural gods really do make a difference, dontcha know.

  86. Ymar Sakar Says:

    So called christians, irregardless of denomination, should now be preparing for persecution. Welcome to the End Times.

    Oh, it won’t be from Muslims this time, this time it will be your fellow brothers and sisters, from the West.

    How fun will that be, hrm.

  87. BrianE Says:

    “The WSJ uses the terms ‘white nationalist’ and ‘white supremacist’ interchangeably, never defining the former.”- Frog

    This is an important point that is being overlooked in all the rhetoric.

    The left sees nationalism as the enemy of the global world order. So do those that preach globalist “free trade”.

    Over the years I’ve recognized the trap that open borders creates in maintaining a national identity.

    Since I’ve become more “nationalistic” and I’m white, am I a “white nationalist”? Which is the new racist? If so, the term will become as meaningless as the epithet “racist” has become. If we’re all racists, then no one is racist.

    But in the short term, it’s a convenient way to stifle debate around the recognition that national identity serves a good purpose in ordering a society.

  88. Irv Says:

    It is so easy to demagogue those who stand for the Constitution when it protects those who are unpopular. The tactic is to say that anyone who seeks to protect their rights must agree with what they’re saying.

    We used to study such things in school in civics classes. I remember many philosophical discussions in high school and college of the rights guaranteed in the Constitution and why they were there and how important they were to civilized society. Unfortunately those classes have been taken over almost completely by far left progressives and these days only seek to enforce political correctness. This dumbing down of our young prepares them to fall for the lies of the left when they’re older.

    Unless we get control of our education system and get it out of the hands of the progressives our society will continue down the path that can only end in another civil war.

    Trump is trying to turn the country away from that path but the harder he tries, the harder and dirtier the left, the establishment, the media and the education complex fight him.

    How easy it would be to stand on the deck of the sinking Titanic and criticize the stink and the smell of the garbage scow that is there to rescue you.

    If you want to wait on a perfect savior for the country then you’ll still be waiting when there’s no country left to save.

  89. brdavis9 Says:

    So, so sick of this crap.

    Effin’ drama queens, all of ’em: the media, politicians …and now, pathetically, “captains of commerce”. For eff’s sake.

    I don’t give a crap that one group of loser morons violently attacks another group of moron losers, and predictably the participants sustain casualties …and a fatality.

    I do care that the cops were told by the mayor to ignore the damn law …a mayor whose effin’ plan was to spin this into Katrina-ish political cum moral outrage over …Trump?

    Yawn.

    I’ve seen this playbook before.

    I mean, like, the POTUS is supposed to be responsible for some insignificant local fracas that is the stinking responsibility of the effin’ mayor.

    Only in the fevered mind of The Perpetually Outraged.

    And the missish fainting daisies of the media think I’m going to buy this crap?

    Jeezus.

    Give me an effin’ break.

    And I seriously ain’t buyin’ any of it.

    Trump’s so-called tin ear be damned: the frickin’ mayor’s actions actively caused this mashup, and the dereliction of the Charlotesville PD is prima facie of their being complicit in the entirely frickin’ predictable results. The blood is on their hands.

    Soo frickin’ obvious. So. Frickin’. Obvious.

    …so sick of this crap.

  90. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Keep giving your power to DC, Americans. I am sure Lucifer will welcome all of you, in due time, as his slaves.

    You merely have to obey the Messiah, Hussein Obola, Or Else…

  91. Dave Says:

    The left is famous for hurting themselves to frame the other side, what makes you believe this time is different? Unite the right? give me a break, it has “I am gonna do bad things in the name of right to make you hate them” written all over it.

  92. Irv Says:

    brdavis9 – Exceptionally well said!!!

  93. Dave Says:

    It is the classic The Joker killing innocent people while spray painting batman symbols on the murder scenes Trope. There are many screenwriters on the left, they are great at coming up with stuff like that.

  94. Sharon W Says:

    Irv, there is a lot of truth to what you say about the indoctrination that constitutes education in our present time. I home-schooled my 3 children (now aged 36 through high school then off to art college-now a fashion designer; 33-up to 8th grade then all-boys high school, junior college then military; and 28 up to 5th grade, a UCLA grad). They are all married, successful adults that hold to every substantive value that we believe and our parents taught us. Among our friends, most of their children have followed the lead of the educational institutions and popular media. (In one case, the children were also home-schooled, but I would say the difference between our kids and them–my nieces and nephew–is that they want to be seen as “cool”. My kids are confident enough to respectfully dissent.

  95. DNW Says:

    AesopFan Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:10 am

    DNW Says:
    August 16th, 2017 at 2:08 pm
    I think that it is important to face the fact that just as liberal policies know no limits, neither do liberal moral goalposts have any set place, but exist only in order to be perpetually moved to the left.
    * * *
    If I were a cartoonist, I would draw a picture of a place-kicker aiming the football anywhere other than the end-zone and have his team (and the referees?) moving the goal-post underneath it.”

    I read the article you liked to. It takes a tack quite a number of Republican leaning writers have pursued.

    I personally think it is too facile and blatantly polemical in some respects

    Now it has been a long while since I re-read Dred Scott, but I am not sure that despite what strikes us as outrageously racist language, the propositions bore any freight other than that of what Taney, (Pron “Tawney” I always have to remind myself) understood as a matter of bare legal fact.

    The unpleasant political implications, if they were as logically inevitable as some suppose, are a different matter from that of reviewing what it is that the law actually says at the moment.

    Opinion may have changed since I was in school, but the opinion of the writers of the texts who wrote in the decade or so before I got there, was that the bare legal facts tended South whereas an ostensibly moral argument – which included saying to hell with the Constitution … a pact with the devil and so on – was brandished by the North.

    Alexander Stephens apparently did argue that slavery was in fact a “good”. An incredibly stupid and tortuous argument. And as I recall he formulated some of his crappy arguments in terms of the forcible improvement of subject, in ways which I found reminiscent of the left as it argued for the benefits of totalitarian control. Paternalism … forcible improvement … or from each according to his natural abilities … the trends of these arguments blend together, strangely (or perhaps not so strangely) enough.

    The more ardent of the abolitionists, too, come off as totalitarian collectivists of a kind: consolidationists, amalgamationists, transcendentalist free-love proto-communists … almost every New England crackpottery balled up melded with the slavery question by inhabitants of the neurotic zone of the country.

    They all seem to have a totalizing agenda up their sleeves. One which serves their personal interests or neuroses, and is dressed up as concern for humanity.

  96. Sharon W Says:

    brdavis9–So true!

  97. DNW Says:

    ” Irv Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:51 am

    brdavis9 – Exceptionally well said!!!”

    What he said.

  98. ConceptJunkie Says:

    brdavis9:

    Your sentiments mirror mine. There is no other way to describe the media, and the left, than as Orwellian. They are using every tactic possible to deceive, and have gotten very good at it.

    Meanwhile, the majority of the country, left and right, have a completely distorted understanding of what is going on. I see comments to that effect every day: people referring to Republicans and/or conservatives as racists, etc., as if it’s not only true, but common knowledge and commonly accepted. And it’s only going to get worse.

    There is literally nothing Trump could do or say that will make things better, and given his nature, plenty he will say that make things worse, even though I don’t believe he’s racist in any way (and neither did anyone else when he spent all his time palling around with Democrats like the Clintons).

    The alt-right is nothing more than a bunch of people with dubious motivations who have adopted the Alinksyite tactics of the Left, except the Left themselves will recognize and call out these awful tactics in the group they are opposed to. The double standards and willful blindness of so many people is staggering. Like “racist”, “fascist” has lost all meaning and has become simply a pejorative hurled against anyone who disagrees with a liberal.

    Just as Obama was never held responsible for the consequences of his stupid tendency to insert his stupid ill-informed comments into every local situation that made the national news, Trump is being held responsible for literally every stupid little thing that goes wrong in this country.

    The media stopped pretending to be impartial in the early 2000s (at the latest) and now they aren’t pretending to be anything other than apologists for the left. They are literal and existential enemies of the Republic, and to truth in general.

    If people were objective and we were to discount the efforts of the media and leaders of the Democrats, it would be recognized that racism is a problem relegated to a small number of nutcases, idiots and throwbacks who would remain nameless and ineffectual if ignored, instead race relations are being whipped into a frenzy not seen since the 60s solely because the main strategy of the left is to destroy law and order.

    They can’t make things better, and have a two century track record to show for it, so their only hope is to smash the system and hope they can end up on top of the heap of rubble. There are plenty of believers that still think we can create a liberal utopia, but the ones in real power know the score (except for a few hopelessly naive idealists like Kucinich and Sanders who never surpassed the maturity level of a college sophomore who’s taken a couple of PoliSci courses but no history or economics courses). They know that liberalism cannot create, but only destroy, so that’s what they will do.

  99. Kyndyll G Says:

    “All this hysteria over a failure to adequately virtue signal.”

    I was waiting for someone to say this, and say this so succinctly. Regulars here know that succinct is not my specialty.

    Nazi-wannabes exist. I don’t care. Nobody should care. The fact of the matter is, so long as they are not committing violence, or advocating or otherwise encouraging actual violence, they have every right to exist. Our Constitution guarantees the right to speak freely. It does not guarantee the right to not be offended by someone else’s free speech.

    The side that instigates the violence 99% of the time, the hard Left, wants us to roll over and apologize and virtue signal because someone, somewhere, might have said something offensive – or else. In 2017, “or else” can mean actually being physically, financially or socially harmed. The hard Left is entirely, unforgivably, 100% in the wrong in these actions. They are the inheritors of the spirit of what made Nazis evil.

    All that the hard left is interested in anymore is making everyone else grovel and apologize and virtue signal for the never-ending list of things that ever happened, or that ever existed, on this planet that is counter to their ideology. They are masters at tarring everyone who doesn’t agree with them – without reservation on every topic – by calling them names or associating them with what the hard Left would tell us is evil. All you have to do is be the wrong color, or have a wrong idea, or belong to the wrong political party, and you suddenly become a Nazi.

    What made Nazis bad was not German nationalism or even a belief in the superiority of German people, but heinous actions: taking away the rights of certain German citizens, destroying their businesses and homes, confiscating their possessions, enslaving them and eventually moving on to production-line murder, while conquering other nations and doing the same to the citizens of those nations – actions all taken on people whose only crime was to share certain demographics.

    When I hear a modern example of a US “Nazi” taking action to drive a group of US citizens from their homes and businesses into murder camps, because of their ethnicity or some other demographic, then I’ll care. In the meantime, I am not going virtue-signal and faint over the fact that many US citizens would like immigration law to be enforced or are not still taking out pounds of their own flesh over the fact that there was legal slavery in some states 150 years ago.

    It’s the hard Left that wants to hurt people and destroy businesses, based on broad demographics: your political party and for those of you who are christian (I’m not), your religion. While the rest of us still have some numbers, we should take their power away. Let them call people names. So TF what? What we shouldn’t be doing is sitting on forums like this one virtue-signaling and attacking each other, as if in an attempt to please our Leftist overlords.

  100. DNW Says:

    “I don’t give a crap that one group of loser morons violently attacks another group of moron losers, and predictably the participants sustain casualties …and a fatality.”

    Rat fight.

    Any number of violent social conflicts have been begun by the long and determined efforts of lunatics and extremists on opposite sides working hand in hand in order to discharge their own moral chaos and the lust for control of others found in their brains, onto humankind at large.

    Provocateurs who will not be deterred, fire-eating reactionaries, incendiarists, actual plotters and schemers working to provoke violence and death.

    The American Civil War is a good example of that, The Boer War was another, The French and the Russian Revolutions probably another.

    The New England Emigrant Aid Company, Beecher’s bibles, John Brown, Cecil Rhodes and Jameson’s raid, Trotsky and Lenin and Stalin; then Rhett and Yancey … Alexandra Romanov .. Paul Kruger …

  101. Irv Says:

    Kyndyll G – Excellent!

  102. AesopFan Says:

    Ymar Sakar Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:25 am
    AesopFan Says:

    In a previous comment you mentioned that Hussein was a blank slate like Trum is said to be, so Trum would last about as long as Hussein, which is 8 years, unless you count his Senate and Alinsky records… don’t know where 16 came from.
    * * *
    Felt like 16 instead of 8?

    You are right that the Right is left behind in the dust by the Left: people who are just living life the best they can, and helping others do the same, are never able to summon up the violent passion of the committed destroyers.

    Most of them don’t even understand what’s happening.

    The reasonable people (of all political and social factions) aren’t outnumbered by the unreasonable in the beginning, but they are always outgunned.

  103. Lurch Says:

    The President of The University of Virginia, the institution that Jefferson himself had founded, was recently denounced by faculty for quoting Jefferson. I am not making this up.

    My friends, this country can not endure without respect and tolerance for all people, even people with hateful ideology. You wonder how we got Obama and Trump? Wonder no more. It’s going to get uglier unless everyone sobers up. If we don’t, I’ll sadly go to my grave as this won’t be my country anymore.

  104. Lurch Says:

    Can government of the people, by the people, and for the people endure?

    The Lincoln Memorial recently vandalized.

    How long before mobs burn down Monticello and Mt. Vernon? How long before their bodies are exhumed and desecrated?

    I will probably live to see these vile acts attempted.

  105. AesopFan Says:

    Sharon W Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:22 am
    Neo has a number of posts regarding the subject of history lately. At Ace’s site a Jeffrey Lord article was linked that relates a concise history of the Democratic party with regard to race policies. If it’s the past that has the average Democrats up in arms, I wonder how they would excuse this.

    https://spectator.org/is-it-time-to-ban-the-democratic-party/
    * * *
    Lord rehearses the well-known (to some anyway) history of the slavery-supporting Democrats.

    The burden was shifted to the Republicans (the party of emancipation and abolition) during Nixon’s presidency, when the Dems worked a sleight-of-press to label his majority-supported opposition to leftist lawlessness and violence as code for “suppressing black people” — despite the preponderance of white people among the agitators, the resulting riots occurred in black-majority cities and neighborhoods.

    Gee, that sounds familiar somehow.

    Once the identification was shifted, the press made sure it stuck, and are using the same tactics today.

    Check out some Wiki articles: they never mention that George Wallace, symbol of southern slavery, was a Democrat during his multiple terms as governor. Supposedly, the change of some Democrats to the GOP was entirely composed of slavery-fans, except for Robert Byrd, of course. And a few more.

    The Left uses any cause it can to foment disruption. They inhabit the KKK when that works, or the unions until those lose power, or BLM and Antifa. See the comments above in re “goalposts, moving”.

    BTW, ICYMI, Lord was fired as CNN’s token conservative last week for mocking Antifa as being just as Nazi-istic in purpose and tactics as the groups they were fighting with in Charlottesville.

  106. Carrmen Says:

    Speaking of hate groups, I am remembering Berkeley, when speakers from the right tried to to have their freedom of speech.

  107. Tuvea Says:

    The good news is that the MSM seems to have dropped the whole ‘Russian Collusion’ idiocy. At least for now.

    The bad news is that our hostess is attempting to use logic and reasoning to convince posters on here who have already ‘made up their minds’ about what President Trump said last week.

    Ms. Neo trust me on this. Logic and reason will not overcome their ‘feelz’. Good luck in trying though.

  108. AesopFan Says:

    Weapon of the day strikes again – time to ban cars?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/van-ploughs-crowd-barcelona1/

  109. AesopFan Says:

    Irv Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:37 am
    It is so easy to demagogue those who stand for the Constitution when it protects those who are unpopular. The tactic is to say that anyone who seeks to protect their rights must agree with what they’re saying.

    How easy it would be to stand on the deck of the sinking Titanic and criticize the stink and the smell of the garbage scow that is there to rescue you.

    If you want to wait on a perfect savior for the country then you’ll still be waiting when there’s no country left to save.
    * * *
    (1) Recall that John Adams was the lawyer for the British soldiers tried for firing on Massachusetts civilians, and (mostly) won the case.
    http://classroom.synonym.com/did-john-adams-defend-british-soldiers-11549.html

    (2) Well said.

  110. AesopFan Says:

    Tuvea Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 1:03 pm
    The good news is that the MSM seems to have dropped the whole ‘Russian Collusion’ idiocy. At least for now.

    The bad news is that our hostess is attempting to use logic and reasoning to convince posters on here who have already ‘made up their minds’ about what President Trump said last week.

    Ms. Neo trust me on this. Logic and reason will not overcome their ‘feelz’. Good luck in trying though.
    * * *
    No point in pushing the Russian story any longer; they have set the meme that Trump & Co. colluded and don’t need any evidence; the Mueller investigation is back-stage anytime they need to fan the flames.

    In re commenters and logic: too true. Neo is the soul of patience with people who have no intention of looking at any arguments or evidence outside of their already-determined conclusions, not just on this post but many others.

    Look at their responses (or lack thereof) to her ample refutations.

    (What happened to Somebody, by the way?)

  111. neo-neocon Says:

    AesopFan:

    Actually, I don’t think any logic and reasoning of mine is at all likely convince such people, who are basically here with their own agenda. But I argue and state my piece nevertheless, just to get it out there, and in an attempt to reach any reader who might be reached by it.

  112. Dave Says:

    I know i am a mental midget compared to other more mental giants on here, I will just add one more thing. If by saying there are bad people on the left too is defending Racist, then why whenever the left claims their were bad people too whenever there is islamic terrorist attack is not defending terrorism?

  113. Dave Says:

    How many times have we heard that whenever there is call from the right to restrict illegal immigrants due to crimes committed by illegal aliens the left defends them by saying “not only illegal immigrants commit crimes, many crimes were committed by locals as well” Why is that not defending criminals under the same standards they apply on Trump. There is any terrorist attack, watch and learn how to defend bad people the correct right demonstrated by the Left.

  114. Dave Says:

    I bet you the left is going to blame the terrorist attack on the right, claiming that ISIS learned this method of using a car to carry out attack from what happened in the last weekend, except that ISIS has been doing truck attacks for years.

  115. Dave Says:

    watch the left preaches not to capitalize a tragedy to score political points, after they have been just that for the last whole week.

  116. AesopFan Says:

    neo-neocon Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 1:17 pm
    AesopFan:

    Actually, I don’t think any logic and reasoning of mine is at all likely convince such people, who are basically here with their own agenda. But I argue and state my piece nevertheless, just to get it out there, and in an attempt to reach any reader who might be reached by it.
    * * *
    Works for me.

  117. AesopFan Says:

    Fractal Rabbit Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 7:18 am
    I read these comments by Big Maq, Ann, Omnivore, et al and realize the Trolls, Concern or Otherwise, are having the desired effect;

    Their comments have reached critical mass and have begun to sustain themselves. People who are not likely trolls are beginning to sound like them, repeating their talking points like Journolists.
    * * *
    Applies to all factions (notice I do not limit this to “both sides”). Once the initial conjectures are out, the bulk of the “discussion” reduces to the major oppositional conclusions that get the most traction.

    Kind of a Newtonian approximation to the most popular zero, rather than to an actual root, since we are often dealing with fantasy-valued functions instead of real ones.

    Neo and many commenters here, with a few other bloggers and print-journalists, are standing athwart the swirling tornado winds yelling “slow down and look at reality” — since the meme-making really isn’t going to stop.

  118. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Americans are weak to propaganda. They bought the Leftist con for decades. Now they buy into the Alt Right propaganda, which is openly admitted as being based on the Leftist Alinsky con man.

    For such people to look down on me, I think that crosses the line into firing a shot. Irregardless of whether I am their ally or not, I have no use for mad cat marks that are easily fooled by human manipulators. If I want zombies, I can find them almost anywhere. As for their use in the War, well cannon fodder is only so useful. Scaling diminishing returns.

  119. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Trum is in power, put there by many, to fight. So where is this FIGHTING, I was supposed to witness and then shut up in awe about?

    Here’s a prophetic clue. Even if you kill every single Leftist or Islamic Jihad boy…. you will still lose against evil. Why? Because evil has the unique power of hijacking existing institutions and turning white into black, good into evil.

    So long as humanity exists, so long as spirits are connected to this mortal shell and virtual AI avatar… you will never be able to destroy evil. The moment you think you have succeeded, it will turn out the side you fought for has fallen into evil.

  120. n.n Says:

    so long as spirits are connected to this mortal shell and virtual AI avatar

    The question of origin vs expression is not and can never be settled science or even studied inside the scientific domain.

  121. GRA Says:

    Some of these comments sound like moderate conservatives appearing on CNN or MSNBC where they totally agree with the host.

  122. GRA Says:

    “Ymar Sakar Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 11:28 am

    So called christians, irregardless of denomination, should now be preparing for persecution. Welcome to the End Times.

    Oh, it won’t be from Muslims this time, this time it will be your fellow brothers and sisters, from the West.

    How fun will that be, hrm.”

    It’s Christians with a capital “C.”

  123. Wise words from the young – Da Tech Guy Blog Says:

    […] she points out, the media are still car­ry­ing on about what Pres. Trump said/didn’t say at a press con­fer­ence three days […]

  124. Ymar Sakar Says:

    It’s Christians with a capital “C.”

    That’s why you’ll get a reward from the world.

  125. Ymar Sakar Says:

    The question of origin vs expression is not and can never be settled science or even studied inside the scientific domain.

    It’s not something the status quo church of scientisim in the new status quo and inquisition can solve via consensus.

    But there are other options, as usual.

  126. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Ymar: mohammed was in charge of….

    Muslim: That’s Mohammed with a capital M, the prophet of Allah.

    I get the sense that the so called christians are still celebrating the 25th of December as the LORD’s birthday…

  127. AesopFan Says:

    Ymar Sakar Says:
    August 17th, 2017 at 5:53 pm…
    So long as humanity exists, so long as spirits are connected to this mortal shell and virtual AI avatar… you will never be able to destroy evil. The moment you think you have succeeded, it will turn out the side you fought for has fallen into evil.
    * * *
    This is a distinctly Christian position (if some other religion espouses the same, I would be glad to hear of it), and yet you mock people who want to capitalize the name (English custom has long mandated capitals for any proper, rather than general, noun). Christ was a person; people who follow him are Christians.
    Is this an e.e. cummings thing?

  128. neo-neocon Says:

    AesopFan:

    It is a basic Jewish position as well, and also a Zoroastrian position.

    In fact, unless I’m mistaken, the idea that evil is a basic and omnipresent part of human existence is pretty standard in just about all religions. The details differ, of course, but that’s the basic idea.

  129. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Christ was a person; people who follow him are Christians.

    The Christ is a title. It is also applied to Hussein. You didn’t know that? It means Savior or Messiah, somebody that can make the ocean levels rise and lower, dontcha know.

    Jesus of Nazareth, or specifically from Hebrew Yeshua or Yehoshua of Nazareth, was a person.

    Whether something is capitalized or not, is something the world determines. This is merely a recognition that you OBEY THE WORLD, instead of a leader or mortal or immortal. That is a fact. It’s up to you to decide where your loyalties lie.

    That was just a little unintentional test that people failed to meet with the “christian” line.

    You were tested. And not everyone passes the test.

    Also Romans and Protestants tell me that Latter Day Saints are not Christians, capital C. Am I supposed to believe them? If so, then who are the “Christians” and the “Church”?

  130. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Since people wanted to bring up the religious context again, I’ll also pull out my white washed tomb card.

    http://biblehub.com/matthew/23-27.htm

    & Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well. 27Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every impurity. 28In the same way, you appear to be righteous on the outside, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. &

    Whether Sanhedrine is spelled with an E or not, from Hebrew that didn’t even have consonants before the Masoretes corrupted the scriptures, whether Pharisees is spelled with a capital P or not, is merely the outside. It looks nice, so it has to be holy right… as if.

    That is the World’s Logick. Those who Obey the World are of the World, and will receive the Reward of the World. That’s fine with you, it’s fine with me.

  131. Ymar Sakar Says:

    This is a distinctly Christian position (if some other religion espouses the same, I would be glad to hear of it)

    Nope, it is a distinctly Ymar position.

    Unless people are also talking about quantum ai avatars, which is fine.

    If the mainstream religionists and church of nice agree with me, that’s okay too.

    There are two predominant authors which are close to my position. Joseph Smith’s doctrine that the angels in what I call the Divine Counsel, inhabit some if not all the mortal shells that I call avatars. And Plato, who spoke about this reality being merely a shadow of the True Reality (which is why spirit controls matter). Socrates also deserves a mention for figuring out the existence of the Holy Spirit before Jesus of Nazareth’s crucifixion. Perhaps it was some other daemon spirit, but it was certainly very close. What exactly is the Holy Spirit and why did it require a mortal to become a god before it could arrive, is a connected but separate issue.

    But even quantum neuroscientists and physicists have begun coming over to my view, if not Smith’s view. They are beginning to realize or forced to accept that this reality that we call material, is merely a virtual reality simulation. It is a digital simulation, because once you get below the Plankt length, there is no “particle” that exists, it loses its locality and is basically in communication with every other aspect of existence. It is a digital code, just like DNA. There is no “junk” in the code. Every line is required.

    It is information, there is no substance to it from a requirement stand point. It has biological material and what not, because that is how the information is translated and affects the material world.

    It cannot be accurately said that I have the viewpoint of the mainstream. It is obvious that my position is dramatically different from the mainstream, in so far as it has elements that are unique and not reproduced by the ancients or moderns in totality.

  132. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Correction, Masoretes introduced vowel points into the Old Hebrew.

    http://kingdominfo.net/truth/?p=2270

    When comparing Masoretic Text, MT, with Qumran scrolls, some deletions and changes had been noted.

    The evidence is growing that these changes were intentional, in order to enforce orthodoxy and persecute heresy after the 2nd century AD. Why? Because many Jews had to leave Judaism or Israel, to become a Christian. Christianity was a kind of Jewish heresy then.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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