October 2nd, 2017

High death toll in Las Vegas mass murder

Terrible terrible news:

A gunman perched high on the 32nd floor of a Las Vegas Strip casino unleashed a shower of bullets down on an outdoor country music festival below, killing at least 50 people and wounding more than 400 as tens of thousands of frantic concert-goers screamed and ran for their lives, officials said Monday. It was the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

President Donald Trump called the attack “an act of pure evil.”

Country music star Jason Aldean was performing Sunday night at the end of the three-day Route 91 Harvest Festival when the gunman opened fire across the street from inside the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino.

SWAT teams quickly descended on the concert and the casino, and officers used explosives to get into the hotel room where the suspect was inside, authorities said. The gunman was found dead at the scene and was identified by Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo as Stephen Paddock, 64. A motive was not immediately known.

Police said Paddock was found dead with as many as 10 firearms.

We know very very little about the shooter at this point. He’s a white man, said to have a criminal history and be from the area. Predictably, ISIS has claimed he’s acting on their behalf; they’re eager to ally themselves and take “credit” for just about any evil, but that doesn’t mean their claim is true although it could be.

I think it’s a safe guess that Paddock was an angry guy whose ambition was to go down as one of the biggest mass murderers in history. He succeeded in getting the US record in terms of shootings:

The shooting at the sold-out Route 91 Harvest festival was the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. Forty-nine people were killed when a gunman opened fire at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando in June 2016.

I’m no firearms expert, but it seems to me it would be pretty easy to kill people in a large, massed crowd, even if firing from as far away as the 32nd floor of a building, because of the huge crush of people. You wouldn’t have to be a particularly good shot.

That SWAT team no doubt prevented further carnage.

I will update this post as more news develops.

UPDATE 11:40 AM:

It is being reported that—as might be suspected—the shooter died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. My guess is that (if the report is correct) this occurred at or near the time that the police were engaged in breaking into the shooter’s hotel room (sniper’s nest) with explosives.

The shooter’s brother reports being shocked by the events and knowing nothing about his brother’s possible motive, saying, “He’s just a guy.”

But a guy who apparently wanted to go down in history for something, even if (or especially if?) that something was evil.

Prayers for the wounded survivors, the dead, and their families.

On Trump’s response.

UPDATE 12:05 PM:

As so often seems to be the case with these events, the most complete coverage so far is in the British press.

33 Responses to “High death toll in Las Vegas mass murder”

  1. DNW Says:

    I hadn’t heard until I started in on some news articles this morning.

    Yes, a tragedy.

    No, as you say, apparently the guy has little or nothing in the way of a criminal history: A traffic ticket … a failed law suit filed against a casino in apparent hopes of scoring a payout on a slip and fall case.

    The guy does apparently own a house worth over 300k in a retirement village; he is on record as owing two planes – or at least he reportedly did at some point; and currently has two vehicles registered in his name.

    His girl friend is a “proud” 55 prox grandmother of Indonesian (?) descent, who ‘enjoys living life to its fullest’ … again, reportedly.

    So what do we really know about this son of a bitch? He is affluent enough. Was an accountant of some kind. No mention of a wife or kids. Has a live-in sex pal lives life to the fullest girlfriend from Asia. Sued a casino hoping for a payday. Likes the slots. Likes living near Vegas. The only picture of him circulating now shows him hoisting a shot glass.

    Oh, his mystified much younger brother says he cannot imagine what went wrong – and he probably genuinely cannot – in part because the shooter had all the money he seemingly needed. (Unless he gambled and drank it all away and his girlfriend left him when he became impotent)

    “Good son’ that he was, he also took the time out from his life of self-gratification to call his brother a couple weeks ago and check on their mother, after the Fla hurricane. What a guy.

    Am I surprised? A little, but not much.

    Although what is known of his life so far provides no positive motives, what is known of his life so far, gives no reason for anyone to believe that he was ever anything more on a fundamental level, than a satisfaction chasing nihilist, all his adult life.

  2. arfldgrs Says:

    Hillary says how more aweful it would have been if there was a silencer on the illegal weapon used to do an illegal act, that would have been deadly if the person threw pin ball bearings off the 30th floor too.

    but, who is supplying weapons to ISIS, who is running the middle east and bragging about it in non western press no one hear wants to pay attention too.

    what will happen on the 100th anniversary?
    what anniversary?

    well, 9/11 at the gates of vienna past
    what anniversary that is similar to such is coming?
    with all the war preps ready, even two nuclear instigators, and this quote?

    Russia and China’s prewar moves include: the accumulation of large gold reserves (for when paper currencies begin to collapse); an increase in agricultural output and the stockpiling of food in huge underground cities and bunkers; the production of a new generation of weapons (tanks, fighters, missiles, etc.); the infiltration and corruption of the West’s ruling class; the exploitation of political divisions in the United States for the purpose of destroying social trust or to encourage a civil war; and publicly pretending that the great power rivalry of previous decades is a thing of the past while secretly continuing that rivalry.

    when it appears you will try to figure out how it came
    but how it comes is you dont pay attention to it
    the priority being other things, which is the point
    its called tactical
    its end is strategic

    just remember October, and November (2017) being VERY BERY special to the people playing the game…

    the October was the set up for Novermber
    anyone remember their history?

  3. arfldgrs Says:

    His brother knows nothing, thinking him having no politics
    [niether did the brother of the unabomber, or the wife of the ice man, etc]

    The motive for the shooting remains unclear. Police said Paddock had no criminal history, save a minor citation, and officials have not uncovered any connections between the suspect and any foreign terrorist groups. He appears to have worked as an accountant or auditor and was at one point employed by a company that later become Lockheed Martin, one of the world’s largest defense contractors.

    CBS Legal Exec: No Sympathy For Vegas ‘Because Country Music Fans Often Are Republican’

    it was a no gun zone..
    add that to the laws broken
    [and note, a sling shot from the roof could actually do similar]

    Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Filed Lawsuit Against Casino
    A public records search of Clark County Court cases revealed that Paddock filed a lawsuit against the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas hotel and resort. Tecords show he was suing for “Negligence – Premises Liability.” / the lawsuit was filed in September 2012. It was dismissed with prejudice on October 3, 2014. The two sides reached a settlement paid through arbitration.

    Charles Cooke, an actual firearms expert, says it does sound like an automatic. And if it is, that means Paddock did a *lot* of planning for mass murder [unless it goes way back to the 1980s]

    “What’s unique for us is the gunman, the shooter, and the person with him, we in the Mesquite Police Department have not had any contact with these people in the past. We haven’t had any traffic stops, any law enforcement contact, no arrests or nothing,” Mesquite, Nevada police spokesman Quinn Averett told CNN

    So there is NOTHING that any law would have worked to figure out what he would do later, or his state, or anything..

    NBC News reported that Paddock was married and going through a divorce. The woman’s name hasn’t been released. The nature of his relationship with Danley is still unknown

    Massachusetts U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton says he will not participate in a moment of silence on the House floor after 50 people were killed in Las Vegas and more than 400 others were sent to area hospitals in the deadliest mass shooting in American history.

    notice they say, REP. seth, not (D) till later in the article

    Jihad Watch:
    The Quint, October 2, 2017

    An active shooter fired at an outdoor concert crowd in Las Vegas’ Mandalay Bay Casino area. At least 50 people died and 400 were injured in the shooting, that was later claimed by ISIS. The roads leading to the Vegas strip were shut by the police. The gunman was shot down at the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel. The Nevada sheriff identified Stephen Paddock as the suspected gunman in Las Vegas shootout.

    Islamic State has claimed responsibility for a shooting that killed at least 50 people and wounded over 400 in Las Vegas early on Monday, and said the attacker had converted to Islam a few months ago.

    “The Las Vegas attack was carried out by a soldier of the Islamic State and he carried it out in response to calls to target states of the coalition,” the group’s news agency Amaq said in reference to the US-led coalition fighting the group in the Middle East.

    “The Las Vegas attacker converted to Islam a few months ago,” Amaq added

    thats it for now

  4. Oldflyer Says:

    There is an MSNBC video posted on another site that has audio of the gun shots. Assuming the accuracy, and I do, there is no doubt that he was using an automatic weapon.

    The authorities naturally know what weapons were used; but, they aren’t saying. I did an on-line check as a reminder, and learned that auto weapons manufactured before 1986 can be legally owned, but must be registered with the ATF and a $200 fee paid. Odd law. Some states have banned auto weapons, but Nevada is not one.

    I would think in this day, federal authorities would have a pretty good handle on where each auto weapon is–legally. If they don’t, they should get to work and start tracking them.

  5. Frog Says:

    Agree with Oldflyer: There can be no doubt perp was using a fully-automatic rifle. One ~30-round magazine after another. Melt the barrel, so to speak, discard the weapon, pick up another similar rifle, and resume.

    I understand that AR-15 trigger mechanisms can be readily modified to convert to fully automatic from what is comfortably called “semi-automatic”, but that conversion is illegal. Our armed forces use the full auto mode.
    “Semi” means one trigger pull=1 round fired; “Full” automatic means gun keeps firing (cycling) as long as trigger is depressed.

    Perhaps he had the gunsmithing skills and the tools to do the trigger conversions himself.

  6. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Some time back, taking a CPR/AED class in our church for ushers and staff, some of the guys started looking in the first aid kits for pressure bandages.
    “I’m not talking about war wounds,” said the nurse.
    ’bout three days later comes the Pulse Night Club shooting.
    So Friday, talking to an EMT guy, I said dealing with major bleeds ought to be taught right along with AED/CPR.
    So this morning…..

    Should keep my damn’ mouth shut.

    That said, if you could pick a civilian cohort who could take care of business, of whatever type, country music’s the crowd you need. Cops, firefighters, EMTs, current and former military.

  7. GRA Says:

    This will further the gun lobby’s agenda of banning guns and put the 2nd Amendment under scrutiny, again.

  8. TommyJay Says:

    I saw and heard a YouTube video. Almost 100% sure it was a full auto weapon, so Neo is correct. No need to aim particularly well. Those high vel. bullets hit pavement will likely fragment. Some of those fragments could cause serious injury, but most will generate more minor injuries. It seemed like the there was about 30 sec between mag reloads, which means that he was either not very experienced or just wasn’t in a hurry.

    Someone estimated about 10 min. of firing. That’s an eternity. Time = lives. In many cases, including this one, the gunman is waiting to kill himself at the first sign of a good counter assault. Or even a really bad counter assault. (Check out the Clackamas mall shooter in 2012.) So you would think that the police would understand this by now.

    The Mandalay had police on staff, but they had to wait for the fire dept. to arrive first. To breach the door??

    The Newtown PD was a 5 min. drive away from the school, but it took 15+ min. from the 911 call to police contact with the shooter. And of course the Pulse nightclub shooting took hours. But Mateen was highly trained as well.

    The father of this shooter was not only on the FBI most wanted list, but was officially diagnosed a psychopath. I happened to see a documentary recently where a psych researcher claimed that true psychopathy was nearly 100% genetic.

    I attended a concert series at our outdoor mall a couple months ago, and about 200 people were packed in a very small area. When I noticed the two or three mall security people milling about, I saw that none were armed. Call me crazy, but an armed presence is now a necessity at these events.

  9. DNW Says:

    Frog Says:
    October 2nd, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    Agree with Oldflyer: There can be no doubt perp was using a fully-automatic rifle. One ~30-round magazine after another. Melt the barrel, so to speak, discard the weapon, pick up another similar rifle, and resume.

    I understand that AR-15 trigger mechanisms can be readily modified to convert to fully automatic from what is comfortably called “semi-automatic”, but that conversion is illegal. Our armed forces use the full auto mode.”

    I suppose. I cannot tell what it is. The cyclic rate sounds a little slow for an M16/AR.

    There is a echo: a light sharp cracking and an odd futting sound both. I can’t really tell which is the original and which is the reverb. And am nothing remotely like an expert in the first place.

    The deep sound sounds like an old heavy machine gun in a movie. The light sound sounds like a 22 caliber but is not fast enough for an M16.

    And the reload sounds slow and takes … what 10 seconds? That would be about right for an awkward (and as you say, 30 round) banana magazine.

    My guess, and it is only a guess then, would be an AK type either with full auto modification or using a “Hell Fire” attachment. He’s as you say just emptying the magazine without stop or intentional pause.

    But I have no real Idea.

    God have mercy on the dead and wounded.

  10. MollyNH Says:

    Why isn’t there some sensor to tell the hotel staff a window has gone out ? Two windows are busted there , it could be a mass shooter perch. a suicide, a murder or just an accident and this big fancy expensive Hotel isn’t even interested in monitoring itself? So people just walking by would have to rush in and tell them there is a body splashed on the sidewalk. Very stupid Mandalay. look how much faster things could have been attended to!

  11. DNW Says:

    Ok, to repeat, I have no real idea what the guy was shooting. I just saw a graphic which had the distance from the hotel window, to the crowd, at 1,700 feet.

    Now, if accurate, that comes out to 566 yards, so my calculator informs me.

    Grant that he is shooting down, but as anyone who has used a regular rifle to shoot 400 yards will know, that is a long way to fire a 1960s semi-auto battle rifle. I don’t get it. But I suppose if all he is trying to do is dump rounds into a packed mass of human beings 100 yards across

    I’m done guessing in an attempt to puzzle out how this horrific act could have been accomplished. We’ll see what the authorities have to say about him.

    What in God’s name do these malevolent narcissists think that they are accomplishing other than their own damnation?

  12. arfldgrs Says:

    the atlantic:
    The vast majority of the Islamic State’s claimed attacks were undertaken by men acting in its name, often after leaving short video statements confirming their intentions. The Amaq news agency is the preferred venue for the initial claim, usually within a day. (Sloppy reporters sometimes mistake the rejoicing of online supporters, meteorological or not, for an official claim.) If they were really so promiscuous with their claims, we would long since have ignored them, as we do claims from other yahoos who have tried to take credit for atrocities authored by others. The idea that the Islamic State simply scans the news in search of mass killings, then sends out press releases in hope of stealing glory, is false. Amaq may learn details of the attacks from mainstream media—and often gets those details wrong, also like mainstream media—but its claim of credit typically flows from an Amaq-specific source.

    so we have to wait… of course

  13. arfldgrs Says:

    Grant that he is shooting down, but as anyone who has used a regular rifle to shoot 400 yards will know, that is a long way to fire a 1960s semi-auto battle rifle. I don’t get it. But I suppose if all he is trying to do is dump rounds into a packed mass of human beings 100 yards across

    which is what he did.
    this was no ex marine wiht a brain tumor as in the Texas A&M tower (for which some of the shots were incredible)

    this was firing into a crowd

    Which is why i said you could have used a sling shot if you could have reached that far with it, the fall from 30 stories would be enough if the weight was enough.

    the PS58 could easily do a lot of damage
    and you can shoot almost anything
    from large metal ball to cherry bombs..

    the major point is that nothig but a decent society as in the past will mitigate such things… we lost that with the liberation of the womens movement in 68, and since that been having less and less of it…

    which is why in the 1930s you could order a rifle in a comic book / and today in the 2017 you cant do much, but there are tons more actions.

    did ya think loose sexual morals would only affect sex?

  14. arfldgrs Says:

    AND its not the largest shooting..
    so thats bs too

    Here are the deadliest shootings in U.S. history.

    — Pulse nightclub massacre: Omar Saddiqui Mateen killed at least 49 people and wounded more than 50 inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, on June 12, 2016.

    — San Bernardino shooting: On Dec. 2, 2015, husband and wife Syed Rizqan Farook and Tashfeen Malik opened fire at a holiday party in San Bernardino, Calif., killing 14 people and wounding 22 others. After the shooting, the couple was killed by police in a shootout.

    — Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre: In 2014, Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead in her home, then drove to the Connecticut school and fatally shot 20 children, between the ages of 6 and 7, plus six staffers at the school, for a total of 27 dead. He then killed himself.

    — Virginia Tech massacre: Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho shoots dead 32 people in two locations of the school’s Blacksburg, Va., campus in April 2007.

    — Columbine High School massacre: In April 1999 two seniors at the Colorado school, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, fatally shot 12 students and one teacher and wounded 21 others before killing themselves.

    — Luby’s cafeteria shooting: George “Jo Jo” Hennard, an unemployed merchant seaman, shot and killed 23 people and wounded 20 others at Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, on Oct. 16, 1991. Hennard killed himself about 13 minutes after the rampage.

    — San Ysidro McDonald’s massacre: On July 18, 1984, James Huberty, 41, shot and killed 21 people and injured 19 others in and around a McDonald’s restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. Huberty was later killed by a SWAT team sniper.

    — University of Texas tower shooting: On Aug. 1, 1966, University of Texas engineering student Charles Whitman climbed to the school’s iconic clock tower and opened fire. Whitman, a former Marine who had murdered his mother and wife earlier that morning, killed 13 and wounded 43 before he was gunned down by police.

    — Greenwood massacre: Racial violence in Tulsa, Okla., in 1921 left as many as 300 dead, nearly all African-Americans.

    — Ludlow massacre: Members of the Colorado National Guard plus guards hired by the Colorado Fuel & Iron Co. killed 19 striking coal miners in 1914. Many of the victims were minorities and immigrants.

    — Colfax massacre: On Easter Sunday of 1873, in the bloodiest racial attacks during Reconstruction, white Democrats slaughtered as many as 153 African-Americans at the Colfax, La., courthouse and later as other victims were being held prisoner.

    — Fort Pillow massacre: On April 12, 1864, Confederate soldiers shot dead or bayoneted to death 277 African-American soldiers fighting for the Union in Henning, Tenn. Nearly all of the victims had surrendered and dropped their weapons when they were killed.

    — Saltville massacre: Shortly after winning a battle in 1864 near Saltville, Va., Confederate troops killed between 45 and 50 wounded or captured African-American troops who had been fighting for the North.

    — Lawrence massacre: Pro-confederate guerrillas in 1863 killed as many as 200 civilians and burned down a quarter of Lawrence, Kan., a pro-Union community.

    — Spirit Lake massacre: In 1857 Native Americans of the Santee Sioux tribe killed 35 to 40 settlers and took four young women captive near West Okoboji, Iowa.

    — Bloody Island massacre: In 1850 federal troops killed as many as 200 Native Americans of the Pomo tribe on an island in Clear Lake, Calif. The attack was in revenge for the murder of two white settlers by members of another Native American tribe.

  15. TommyJay Says:

    The most deadly mass shooting in US history was the Wounded Knee massacre in 1890. 150 tribe persons and 25 army killed. Some claim that with the bitter cold weather killing many of the wounded, that 300 dead is a minimum.

    DNW mentions a target field of 100 yards across. Unlike the Bataclan massacre with its highly confining theater, this area may have been miles across. Although the high concentration of people was likely much smaller.

  16. arfldgrs Says:

    The father of Las Vegas madman Stephen Paddock was a “psychopath” himself — a bank robber who escaped federal prison in the late 1960s and landed on the FBI’s most-wanted list, according to reports. Paddock’s dad was serial felon Benjamin Haskins Paddock, according to the Daily Mail and a tweet from NBC. Benjamin Paddock had been locked up in 1960 for robbing an Arizona bank, escaped in 1968 and spent nearly three years on the run before the FBI caught up to him in Las Vegas in 1971

  17. Ray Says:

    A long time ago I was shooting competition using a machine gun (on a bipod), rifle and pistol. The machine gun targets were at 200 meters and I put about 50% of my rounds on the targets. Shooting 600 meters into a big crowd wouldn’t take any marksman skill. You would be bound to hit something. I’m surprised the initial fatalities weren’t higher.

  18. neo-neocon Says:

    artfldgr:

    I am fairly certain that “largest” shooting was shorthand for “largest shooting by a civilian“—particularly a single civilian. That’s definitely the way I understood it.

    Also, of the shootings you list that were perpetrated by individual civilian shooters, they all have a lower number of dead and wounded than this Las Vegas shooting. The second-worst one—Pulse in Orlando—killed 49 and wounded 53. The Las Vegas death toll so far is 58 and 515 injured, and those figures could rise. That would make it the deadliest and largest non-military mass shooting in US history.

  19. Dave Says:

    I bet you Stephen Paddock is really ISIS, the following is my reasoning:

    If I am ISIS Stephen Paddock is exactly the type of people I want to recruit, an old white dude that could blend like no middle eastern people can, someone who would never be suspected to be radical Jihadist, he can bypass many homeland security monitoring systems and have access to many places an Arabic young man cannot. Do you think an Arabic 20 something could have collected that many guns and hide it in a hotel room for so long?

  20. neo-neocon Says:

    Dave:

    I read somewhere today (don’t recall where) that ISIS has not ever claimed “credit” for a murder or murders where the person wasn’t in fact a jihadi or jihadi sympathizer. So although we don’t know in the case of this guy, and it seems improbable, it may in fact be true.

  21. parker Says:

    Being a ‘gun nut’ I can say that NV is one of a handful of states that does allow civilian (not LEO) to own pre 1986 machine guns. That does require a FBI background check, finger prints, and registration with ATFE. ATFE may at any time conduct an inspection to verify the weapon is in your possession.

    If the shooter legally owned a full auto firearm the ATFE would known this within a minute or so because the list of legal owners is probably less than 25,000 nation wide. Since the 1934 act only 1 legally owned private full auto has been used to create a crime.

    My conclusion is two fold: either the weapon (s) were illegally obtained from a broad or ATFE is stonewalling the info they have because of some bureaucratic snafu.

  22. Dave Says:

    Neo:

    ISIS despite being so evil they are still smart people, no reason to risk their credibility to claim responsibility of a terrorist attack that on paper seems so outlandishly ridiculous – a jihad committed by an old white millionaire gambling addict if there is not a connection between them.

    However, you can look at it the other way, it could be ISIS playing with our minds, by claiming responsibility of this random attack by an old white dude it will induce doubt and fear in our mind that now anyone not just arabic 20 somethings can be jihadists.

    I love 4D chess conspiracies

  23. Dave Says:

    Sorry I don’t mean to love anything about the attack, I just like playing what if games with current events.

  24. neo-neocon Says:

    parker:

    People are saying a weapon can be converted to automatic. Don’t you think that’s the most likely thing to have happened here?

  25. Ymar Sakar Says:

    These events sound strangely like demonic possession.

    neo-neocon Says:
    October 2nd, 2017 at 5:15 pm
    parker:

    People are saying a weapon can be converted to automatic. Don’t you think that’s the most likely thing to have happened here?

    The receiver or the trigger is what operates the automatic function. Thus some assembly rifles like AR 15s, can replace the receiver or the trigger, to be converted to single shot semi automatic, burst, or automatic.

    I don’t create gun parts or operate them, so I kind of forgot about the details, including how many degrees Ak 47s recoil towards the left or right, vs the pull of other European or American automatic rifle actions.

    There used to be something that required me to know those details, but it is no longer relevant. Might be useful when zig zagging against certain shooters that you know are firing on auto though.

    I used to tell people that it was dangerous to go out to public events, protests, anywhere that there is a lot of people clustered together.

    Why?

    Because the problem of causing mass casualty events is generally manpower and getting enough critical mass together for one pressure cooker bomb or whatever firepower is available, to do enough damage.

    To properly defend against attack A, the user must be able to simulate in his mind a proper attack A, before creating defense A.

    Those people who can play both sides of the chess board, are often considered “paranoid”, although they are often far calmer and self disciplined than the panicky talking heads and normal civilians.

  26. Ymar Sakar Says:

    I would be interested to see if any evidence leads to satanic child abuse or traumatic mind control.

    The modus operandi of these apparently disconnected shooting events are too datapoint connected. Some people online are even talking about false flag ops conducted by black ops units.

  27. Paul in Boston Says:

    It’s terrible what this man did but how is it different from the September murder toll in Chicago? The numbers are nearly identical. Why no wailing and crying, no finger pointing at guns and Republicans? http://heyjackass.com

    Is it because the killing was done in ones and twos? Or because it was mostly of young poor black men? Or because there’s strict gun control in Chicago? Or because it’s a 100% Democratic town?

    They’re both terrible tragedies but one gets lots of press and the other is only a bit of local news each day. Maybe the attention span required to deal with Chicago is too long, and it’s not politically correct.

  28. parker Says:

    It requires some level skill to convert a semiautomatic to full auto. Of course it is possible to convert many semiautomatics to full. Listening to the firing pattern does not convince me a full auto was used. The shooter has been reported as having ten rifles in his room (!) and at this point I am waiting for more info before guessing what went down.

    RIP for the dead, wishing recovery for the wounded/injured, and tears for the families and friends for all of the victims. And, I will not try to guess the motivations of the shooter.

    BTW, I am a lifetime NRA member. Started shooting (22LR) at age 8, bought my own used 22LR at age 10 by clipping an ad from Field and Stream and buying a $19.98 money order. USPS delivered the rifle a couple of weeks later. No background checks or forms to fill out to be sent to ATF. Took the rifle and ammo to school once a month for after school marksmanship class; as did most farm boys and many a farm girl. It was considered at the time as perfectly normal.

    The problem is not firearms. The problem is the change in culture. The “center can not hold”.

  29. DNW Says:

    “DNW Says:
    October 2nd, 2017 at 2:08 pm

    ‘Frog Says:
    October 2nd, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    Agree with Oldflyer: There can be no doubt perp was using a fully-automatic rifle. …
    I understand that AR-15 trigger mechanisms can be readily modified to convert to fully automatic from what is comfortably called “semi-automatic”, but that conversion is illegal. ‘

    I suppose. I cannot tell what it is. The cyclic rate sounds a little slow for an M16/AR. … My guess, and it is only a guess then, would be an AK type either with full auto modification or using a “Hell Fire” attachment.”

    “parker Says:
    October 2nd, 2017 at 5:55 pm

    It requires some level skill to convert a semiautomatic to full auto. Of course it is possible to convert many semiautomatics to full. Listening to the firing pattern does not convince me a full auto was used.”

    Bump stock … apparently.

  30. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Full auto is not that particularly useful for most people, unless for suppression aoe in certain urban or CQB situations.

    Full auto requires far greater finger strength and trigger dexterity control.

    But, once a person achieves that level of finger control, they can use a full auto trigger mode as either semi automatic, burst, or single shot, doesn’t really matter because the finger controls the shots by time and pressure on the trigger.

    Burst and single shot automatic is easier for lower level marksmen. Or those who have sufficient time to check the scope, wind, and firing mode. For people who are fighting at 20 meters, 50 meters, then 250 meters, full auto allows them to automatically adapt to any scenario or any range, without wasting time with trigger modes.

  31. Ymar Sakar Says:

    They’re both terrible tragedies but one gets lots of press and the other is only a bit of local news each day. Maybe the attention span required to deal with Chicago is too long, and it’s not politically correct.

    That’s easy to answer, my intel networks inform me that the police unions and Demoncrat officials in Chicago, work with the gangs. They need the gangs. The gangs enforce lower level order, and give a kickback to the police union bosses and Demoncrats.

    The police union can use the gangs to enforce law and fear on the police officers that like to “whistle blow” on corruption and vice charges. Stick together and toe the Blue Line, or get killed by these gangs roaming around. Gangs who coincidentally, seem to be armed by Democrats…

  32. Richard Saunders Says:

    Ymar Sakar may be on to something. There’s no doubt in my mind that madness is sweeping the country, The mass shootings are only a part of it. How about the murders by an ex-husband or boyfriend of his ex, his children, his mother-in-law, and everyone else in sight? How about the knock-out game? How about the high school and even middle school female teachers having sex with their students? (I remember that happened once in France about 25-30 years ago and it was a huge scandal. Now it seems to be happening every week.)

    It seems the thin veneer of civilization is wearing through and our animal nature is being revealed. I don’t know why this is happening, but I know it ain’t good!

  33. Ymar Sakar Says:

    The Norse call it Ragnarok. The Christians call it the Second Coming, Judgment, or the End Times.

    The tribes of Benjamine and Judah call it Armageddon. Harm a geddon. Mog and Magog.

    As for the warriors, it will be interesting for them to put their skills to the test in the Last Battle, since I believe many humans had expected that those skills obtained in this era of peace would never see much use. Even armies are becoming less effective due to 4th generational warfare.

    As humans kill humans, as the heart of men grow cold, and become hardened to the divine truth, all the mysteries and hidden truths of our creation, past, and destruction, will be revealed. That will interest the intellectuals, I am sure.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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