October 2nd, 2017

No sympathy for the Republican devils

The Daily Caller reports on the following heartwarming thought expressed in a Facebook conversation:

A top legal executive at CBS, Hayley Geftman-Gold, said she “is not even sympathetic” for the victims of the shooting at a country music festival at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas Sunday night.

“If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs will ever do the right thing,” wrote Geftman-Gold on Facebook, perhaps referring to Sandy Hook. “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters.”

It’s not all that unusual to find expressions of vindictive hatred of the political sort on left or on right. I’ve certainly read and/or heard it coming from each side. At this point, I’m not even going to get into the question of which side is more likely to express such thoughts; I have my theories, but they are just theories.

I don’t often discuss this sort of stuff when it occurs, but I mention Geftman-Gold’s statements because it astounds me that someone who is a media lawyer would write such things in such a public forum, knowing the sort of scrutiny social media platforms draw (her current position is listed as “VP, Senior Counsel, Strategic Transactions at CBS”). It’s not the least bit surprising to me that someone in such a position might hold the point of view she expressed; as I said, I’ve seen more than enough of the “I don’t care if the opposition dies; they’re all evil” point of view from both sides. But why did Geftman-Gold allow herself to write this on Facebook? Did she think it wouldn’t come back to bite her?

Well, maybe it won’t—although someone (not Geftman-Golds herself, it has been reported) has removed her offensive words, it’s not at all clear that there will be any repercussions for their author at her job. Who knows what CBS will or won’t do? Perhaps nothing. [Note added 4:45 PM: See ADDENDUM below; CBS has fired her.]

But whatever happens, I would wager that what prompted Geftman-Golds to feel quite safe in expressing her sentiments is the fact that she most likely lives in a liberal bubble that has allowed and even at times encouraged such thoughts. I’ve lived in liberal bubbles, and I still operate in smaller liberal bubbles at times, and although I’ve never personally heard anything quite approaching the viciousness of Geftman-Golds’ remarks, I hear plenty of hatred and contempt expressed for Republicans in general.

It’s pretty standard, and after a while it becomes a sort of expected background noise to those who frequent such circles continually, and whatever shock value it might have had (if it had any in the first place) probably starts wearing off. If everyone considers expressions of hatred for members of a political party standard and worth hardly a yawn, after a while those expressions might start to escalate.

I am almost certain that, were she asked to explain herself—and if she were to give an honest answer—Geftman-Golds would say that she was right to say what she said because after all she was only defending children from being killed by firearms, and Republicans think it’s just hunky-dory if children are slaughtered in that way as long as the Republicans can keep their precious guns. Something like that. Despite being a lawyer, I doubt she has any true understanding of the Second Amendment, what it means and why it is important to defend. And I very much doubt she hobnobs with any Republicans or country music aficionados, so she felt quite free to demonize them.

In sum, I believe it’s likely that Geftman-Golds felt philosophically safe inside her bubble, and didn’t even think her remarks would be especially controversial or objectionable.

I am fairly certain that the majority of liberals I know (and by extrapolation, the majority of liberals) would not side with Geftman-Golds’ point of view on the victims of the Las Vegas shooting. But I certainly am acquainted with quite a few liberals who detest Republicans as a group and think them not just misguided but evil. And—at least online—I’ve met quite a few people on the right who feel very much the same about Democrats as a group.

[NOTE: The title for this post is a variation on this.]

[ADDENDUM: More in a similar vein, from a teacher.

However, CBS has fired Geftman-Gold:

“This individual, who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families,” said CBS’s statement.

I say good for CBS. Geftman-Gold wasn’t just expressing a political point of view, she was expressing an idea that people on both sides should (and mostly do) find abhorrent.

And of course it’s her right to express it. And it’s CBS’s right to fire her for a particularly reprehensible statement, especially as she was a legal counsel for them.]

87 Responses to “No sympathy for the Republican devils”

  1. Dave Says:

    This is why I began align myself to the right during the last election, There is clearly an anti-white racism and sentiment taking root on the left. They have fallen to the dark side and they don’t even realize it. It is completely wrong and unacceptable to blame a group of people in this case the white people for all the problems in society, that is exactly what the left is doing, when you have create a vain blanket word like institutional racism to try to blame everything on a subset of people, that is clear racism, with supremacy mixed in it as well when you believe you are better than everyone else calling those who disagree with you deplorable.

  2. James Rapp Says:

    I am confused by your placing what is not actually the described conversation in a reduced tab formatting when it is a continuation of your essay that just happens to include selected quotes from the alleged conversation.

    The first part of the quoted conversation makes sense. Republicans, urged by the NRA never want to address a need for control of the deadly dangerous weapons used in Las Vegas.

    A twitter poster claimed it is useless to control them because the weapon used is already banned, an idea as absurd as removing drunk driving laws or allowing access to GHB over the counter because it’s the rapist not the drug.

    And I must say the the final quoted sentence does not make sense in the context of the quotes that precede it. She leaps from a concern that nothing positive will be done to prevent these tragedies to a callus disregard for the dead and wounded? Besides not being a direct statement toward the 91 concert goers such a 180 degree turn does not make sense. Perhaps you have an actual screenshot of the conversation so I can better understand this. I am concerned because I saw how right wing pundits completely twisted Hillary Clinton’s words in testimony to Congress to falsely claim she callously dismissed the murder victims at Benghazi. (This is factually evident when one views her testimony with the full audio).

    And relax, the second amendment is going nowhere. Here’s a thought, if NRA members are so perfect in their lives and mental health why would they have a problem with thorough vetting to keep horribly dangerous weapons of war out of the hands of crazies?

  3. Mike K Says:

    It reminds me of the who made what she thought was an innocuous tweet, then boarded a plane for Africa. She was fired before the plane landed.

    Nothing will happen to this woman, I expect.

  4. Mike K Says:

    Republicans, urged by the NRA never want to address a need for control of the deadly dangerous weapons used in Las Vegas.

    What nonsense ! You must know nothing about weapons. I read real malice in your comment. As well, as ignorance.

  5. MollyNH Says:

    There is a “special ” place in he’ll for individuals who harbor so much demonic hate. Of course most are a theists anyway but the Trump card here ( pun intended) is that HATE is a very damaging emotion, it raises your BP, your bad blood lipids, increases your pulse rate, actually puts your body into fight or flight mode which is actually not good if there is no immediate threat, so you get all those physiological negatives you are wishing on your enemy turned on to yourself. Lots of good advice in that little ditty, ” Don t worry be happy” ,

  6. Dave Says:

    The problem with blaming every mass shootings on guns is why guns is the issue when trucks can be use to deal as big a damage as this? Guns is our trump card to defend ourselves from a corrupted government, and how ironic it is always the government who tries to use events like this take this trump card away from the people. 2nd amendment has given us this right and just like gay marriage the debate is over, why can’t the democrats just give up on infringing our rights to protect ourselves and come up with real solution to lower mass killings. Its like Superman insists on getting rid of all Kryptonite on earth, what is Superman afraid of, how does earth defend against superman in the event that he goes rogue.

  7. Dave Says:

    If Chinese had guns Tienanmen square wouldn’t have happened, if North Koreans had guns Kim Jong Un wouldn’t have happened.

  8. Will Smith Says:

    According to The Hollywood Reporter, she has just been fired by CBS.

  9. TommyJay Says:

    Maybe Geftman-Gold is just wrangling for a promotion, after the heat dies down?

  10. Harry the Extremist Says:

    Yep. Fired.
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/exclusive-cbs-legal-exec-fired-for-vegas-shooting-hot-take/

  11. steve walsh Says:

    Once you have identified someone(s) as less than human and evil then you are free to wish inhuman and evil things upon them.

  12. steve walsh Says:

    Have the gun control folks ever proposed a law or rule or policy that would have prevented the most recent shooting?

  13. Gringo Says:

    James Rapp

    The first part of the quoted conversation makes sense. Republicans, urged by the NRA never want to address a need for control of the deadly dangerous weapons used in Las Vegas.

    Can you point us to sources which identify the “dangerous weapons used in Las Vegas,” and what current laws state about their possession?

    If you cannot, you are blowing hot air.

  14. GRA Says:

    Yea, I sorta had a feeling that this would be said. The left will say that the right will “deserve” this for various reasons – majority white, majority non-prog, majority probably are 2nd Amendment supporters. This reminds when 9/11 happened and people across the pond said that America deserved it.

  15. I R A Darth Aggie Says:

    Republicans, urged by the NRA never want to address a need for control of the deadly dangerous weapons used in Las Vegas.

    The only automatic weapons one may legally purchase has to have been manufactured before a certain date in 1986, and as such those are collector’s items and carries the collector’s premium.

    You have to file paper work, and pay a $200 tax. That paper work include your photographs, and fingerprints, and background checks.

    Had he simply driven a truck bomb into the crowd and detonated it, would you know be calling for thorough vetting of people applying for drivers licenses?

  16. Harry the Extremist Says:

    James Rapp: “I am concerned because I saw how right wing pundits completely twisted Hillary Clinton’s words in testimony to Congress to falsely claim she callously dismissed the murder victims at Benghazi.”

    I think the week following the attack where she continued to insist it was a riot inspired by a movie nobody saw aptly demonstrated Hillary’s callous dismissal over the lives lost in that attack.

  17. DNW Says:

    It is good that she said these things openly. Knowing who is a enemy and who may be permanently categorized as such, and what that enemy’s default state of mind is, is always helpful.

    But, and by the way, you don’t have to dehumanize someone in order to do terrible things to them; nor does it follow that one must inevitably do atrocious things to living entities outside the “human community”.

    Yet, it seems that among the hive minded, they take it to be so.

  18. DNW Says:

    More, “Kill the Boer” stuff from the left.

    But again, it always mystifies me how some people live in a perpetual love/hate modality.

    The fact is, that the world is a fairly big place, filled with creatures we may not identify with but have no reason to wish either in love with us, or alternatively, dead.

    What is it that drives so many – of whatever political persuasion – to demand either unity or death, when there is so much space for freedom?

  19. MollyNH Says:

    Least we forget the Nice France 2016 TRUCK ATTACK
    killed 84, summer evening strollers.

  20. neo-neocon Says:

    Harry the Extremist:

    Good for CBS. She wasn’t just expressing a political point of view, she was expressing an idea that people on both sides should (and mostly do) find abhorrent.

    And of course it’s her right to express it. And it’s CBS’s right to fire her for a particularly reprehensible statement, especially as she is a legal counsel for them.

  21. Frog Says:

    My 3:58 post went off incomplete. It is here in full:.

    Neo observes, “after a while it becomes a sort of expected background noise to those who frequent such [leftist] circles continually, and whatever shock value it might have had (if it had any in the first place) probably starts wearing off.”
    She is also only “fairly certain” that the majority of libs she knows do not share Geffman-Gold’s view.
    By her own admission, she still hangs out with these.

    By my own admission and past comments here, I am opposed to Democrats as individuals and as a group, because they a) tend to march in thoughtless footstep (“Forward Together”) and b) lie more frequently than just about any other group I can identify except Muslims with their Allah-endorsed taqqiya.
    They lack saving graces, believe all women have the “right” to murder their unborn for reasons of convenience, promote the cultural values of the underclass which they created and maintain, and are, even if only mutedly, racist anti-white.
    At their heart, they are anti-human, and their way to secular heaven is lined by the bodies of millions, perhaps billions, of people they have sacrificed to their own secular god, which is themselves.
    That is evil enough for me. The misguided, the seduced, are equally guilty, for they do not repent.

  22. Frog Says:

    Well, now the incomplete has disappeared, merged by digital wizardry into the complete!

  23. Lizzy Says:

    She’s been fired.

    I’d say her callous remarks were worse than a stupid/failed joke on twitter. I’m glad CBS didn’t excuse it as, say, freedom of speech of a gaffe. Probably factored in that the network hosts the Country Music Awards and she’s just said she feels nothing Country fans were slaughtered.

  24. neo-neocon Says:

    James Rapp:

    If you had followed the link I gave as a reference for the information in the post about what Geftman-Gold wrote, you could see that the text of her remarks can be found there. Here’s the link again.

  25. neo-neocon Says:

    Frog:

    Yes, I do “hang out with these.” And I always will, unless they give me a very very VERY good reason not to.

    And yes, I am FAIRLY certain—meaning very certain indeed, as certain as humans can be about what goes on in the minds of other humans who have not addressed a subject directly. I can say for sure that no one I know has ever uttered a word indicating anything like what Gelman-Gold wrote.

    You, of course, with your heightened sensitivity and perceptiveness, no doubt are much more certain about what goes on in the minds of everyone you know.

    This is my family we’re talking about. What you’re suggesting is pretty pernicious. Unless one is 100% certain of what a liberal thinks or doesn’t think (even if that liberal has never expressed such a thought or given a single indication of having such a thought), one must cut off contact with that liberal family member or old friend, just to be on Frog’s good side.

    Read that last sentence of my post.

    By the way, I had originally written “certain” without the “fairly.” I decided to add the “fairly” because I don’t think one can be absolutely certain about what anyone thinks until that person addresses the subject directly.

  26. fiona Says:

    72hour rule. Let’s see how many gunshot victims are among the dead and wounded and how many were victims of the panic reactions.

  27. MollyNH Says:

    You can still get mental health coverage to age 26, go for it.

  28. Irene Says:

    @fiona

    What a bizarre comment. As if it would make a difference.

    What are you implying, that people were cowards and trampled over others and killed others in their panic to escape? First, what if they did? Second, the reports coming out are about extreme acts of heroism, nobody has mentioned stampedes.

    Without waiting 72 hours, just based on the photos I’ve seen, most if not all of the 58 dead so far look like they were shot dead. Hope that makes you feel better. /s

  29. Daniel in Brookline Says:

    Neo, you said:
    But I certainly am acquainted with quite a few liberals who detest Republicans as a group and think them not just misguided but evil.

    I don’t see this as anything new. Remember: the stereotype, now decades old at least, is that Republicans think Democrats are stupid, while Democrats think Republicans are evil.

    (This is a corollary of Churchill’s oft-misquoted sentiment, that young people who are not liberals have no heart, while old people who are not conservatives have no brain. It follows, therefore, that liberals think conservatives have no heart — i.e. are evil — while conservatives think liberals have no brain, i.e. are stupid.)

    So what we’re seeing here, in the demonization of differing political views, is not new. On the other hand, I don’t recall that demonization ever reaching the level of violent activity to the extent that we’re seeing now.

  30. Dave Says:

    Stampede victims are to be expected in an event like this that is why yelling fire in a crowded theater when none is taking place is illegal.

  31. kevino Says:

    I’m surprised CBS fired her. I had expected them to promote her.

  32. parker Says:

    Some people should calm down. The info made public so far is sketchy at best. First of all, to own a full auto pre 1986 full auto firearm is legal in very few states (NV is one of them), and a FBI background check is required, fingerprints are required, and if approved the firearm is registered with the ATFE. ATFE would quickly know if the shooter was a legal owner on their lists. So far, crickets.

  33. huxley Says:

    I had a Trump friend who would say horrific things about Democrats, liberals, blacks, Muslims and RINOs over the phone.

    But he’s worked a city job in Mass for over twenty years and he would never say boo at work or he would have been an ex-employee pretty darn fast.

    That’s the surprising thing here as neo notes — that a media lawyer would imagine she was so immune she could say such a hateful thing on the internet, the most public place of all.

    Another friend asks a riddle: “How does every racist joke in a bar begin?” Answer: By first looking up and down the bar to see who might be listening.

  34. Chester Draws Says:

    if North Koreans had guns Kim Jong Un wouldn’t have happened.

    Strange, because that regime came into power when there were lots of people with guns, able to oppose them.

    A well-regulated militia might be able to oppose a regime (although in general it is the militias that institute the take-overs — see South America). But the US has no well-regulated militias not under direct state control.

    I’d like a modern example where a group of civilians armed only with hand-guns were able to take out a fully functional army. It’s la-la land to suggest disjointed civilians would be able to take out an organised autocratic takeover.

  35. Dave Says:

    its not la la land because first the people out number the government, how many people did Che and Castro had when they took out Batista? How about the rebels in Syria, the government has far more advance weapons especially with the backing of Russia but still they have not been wiped out.

    Kim family were nice to his people first, took their guns then turned evil stupid know nothing liberal.

  36. parker Says:

    Chester,

    Setting aside the “only handguns”, search for Athens, TN. If memory serves me well the year was 1948.

  37. parker Says:

    Or Chester, you could become a member of Jews for Firearm Ownership. I am not a jew, but I am a member. It is by no means a large pro 2nd organization, but as a lefetime NRA member I consider it the most articulate pro 2nd organization in the country.

  38. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Will this be a holy war in the uS, now against devils, or something now…

  39. Ymar Sakar Says:

    What a bizarre comment. As if it would make a difference.

    Fake news doesn’t make a difference, got it.

    This country is imploding.

  40. huxley Says:

    The Jews at Warsaw held out for a month against the SS with few weapons and little food. They lost, but they took out a few hundred SS before being killed or sent to the camps.

    I find it an inspiring story. The Herman Wouk novel on it, “Mila 18,” was a good read.

    It’s an interesting question how well the Final Solution would have gone if every Jewish family had had a few handguns and rifles.

  41. parker Says:

    huxley,

    From what I have read, many Jews were veterans of the Great War and possessed ‘war trophies’ prior to 1932. Being law obeying citizens they turned in their firearms when private ownership was declared illegal in 1934. They disarmed themselves.

  42. Mike K Says:

    I am opposed to Democrats as individuals and as a group, because they a) tend to march in thoughtless footstep (“Forward Together”) and b) lie more frequently than just about any other group I can identify except Muslims with their Allah-endorsed taqqiya.

    I have five kids and three of them are lefties. The oldest daughter is an FBI agent but a lefty, which surprises me a bit. She did tell me a year ago that she would not vote for Hillary, which I took as a bit of inside dope from the FBI grapevine. I think Comey was facing an agent revolt if he did not do that news conference in July.

    My oldest son is a trial lawyer and lefty, partly at least to tweak me as he has always had a competition thing. We don’t talk the past three years. His wife is a far lefty and stoked the fires, the rest of the family believes.

    My second daughter is a Bernie type but she is artsy, although she hates me to say that. She is not angry and we can talk sometimes. Several years ago she was up in arms about some Texas school district that wanted creation taught with evolution. I asked what was more important for fourth graders, math and reading or evolution ? She admitted it was reading and math.

    We all get along except for the oldest.

  43. Stubbs Says:

    Neo said: ” If everyone considers expressions of hatred for members of a political party standard and worth hardly a yawn, after a while those expressions might start to escalate.”

    I couldn’t agree more. The air around us is more concentrated with anti conservatism and anti republicanism than ever before. I think it has become this way because the media have given up on pretending impartiality, and almost everything heard by the public bears their partisan prejudices. Turn on any discussion of political issues, like tax reform, on NPR. Since Trump’s election, which proved that there has been no triumph of leftist ideas, the frustration of the left has brought about a reactionary leftism that becomes stronger by the day. If you expect fair treatment from these people, you have a thing coming.

  44. huxley Says:

    I wouldn’t care to choose whether the right or the left is more hateful in the aggregate.

    But it does seem clear the left is much more comfortable when it comes to expressing its bigotry and at more prominent levels.

    I recall all the liberal spokesfolks who felt comfortable fantasizing in public about killing George W. Bush or Cheney.

    NOBEL peace laureate Betty Williams displayed a flash of her feisty Irish spirit yesterday, lashing out at US President George W.Bush during a speech to hundreds of schoolchildren.

    Campaigning on the rights of young people at the Earth Dialogues forum, being held in Brisbane, Ms Williams spoke passionately about the deaths of innocent children during wartime, particularly in the Middle East, and lambasted Mr Bush.

    “I have a very hard time with this word ‘non-violence’, because I don’t believe that I am non-violent,” said Ms Williams, 64.

    “Right now, I would love to kill George Bush.” Her young audience at the Brisbane City Hall clapped and cheered.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.obituaries/yVFZSrcKDq0

    A Nobel Peace Prize winner telling children how much she would love to kill Bush. Nice!

  45. Frog Says:

    Heck, Neo, you don’t know your own family? So you attack the messenger, not the message.

  46. n.n Says:

    The principle of rights and responsibilities is the basis for individual and human dignity.

    The Second Amendment recognizes the right of individuals to act in their own self-defense. It’s not a license to commit elective abortion, open abortion fields, or to otherwise corrupt human life. That rite was discovered at the twilight fringe by progressives, liberals, libertarians, and psychotics, then established under the Pro-Choice (i.e. selective, unprincipled, and opportunistic) Church.

  47. neo-neocon Says:

    parker:

    What you’ve read is not the case. The Jews did not “disarm themselves.”

    I may write a post on this, but this article tells another story entirely. I first read that article several years ago, and have been meaning to write about it ever since. But it’s a big big topic, and I haven’t tackled it yet.

    In Germany the Nazis disarmed the Jewish population almost immediately after taking power in January 30 1933 and consolidating power after the Reichstag fire (Enabling Act March 24 1933). That was really the very beginning. The Weimer Republic had enacted a gun registration law years earlier, and the Nazis used it, and their enormous powers of search and seizure, to stage surprise raids on the homes of Jews they knew possessed guns. They were speedy; they knew exactly what they were doing and they used the element of surprise combined with force.

    Here’s an excerpt (from page 20 of the link I gave; some of this is from an April 4, 1933 NY Times article):

    Raid on Jewish Quarter

    A large force of police assisted by Nazi auxiliaries raided a Jewish quarter in Eastern Berlin, searching everywhere for weapons and papers. Streets were closed and pedestrians were halted. Worshipers leaving synagogues were searched and those not carrying double identification cards were arrested. Even flower boxes were overturned in the search through houses and some printed matter and a few weapons were seized.

    The Völkische Beobachter contained a revealing account of the raid on the Jewish quarter under the headline: “The Time of the Ghetto Has Come; Massive Raid in the Scheunenviertel; Numerous Discoveries of Weapons–Confiscation of Subversive Material; Numerous Arrests of ‘Immigrants’ from East Galicia.”

    The article included a dramatic and lengthy description of how the police, supported by the SS and criminal detectives, approached the Scheunenviertel (“Barn District”) of Berlin and searched the houses and basements of the Jewish inhabitants. It reported: During the very extensive search, the search details found a whole range of weapons. Further, a large amount of subversive printed material was confiscated. 14 persons who did not have proper identification were detained…

    …Nazi repressive measures against Jewish firearms owners were facilitated by the 1928 Weimar gun control law, which banned firearms from “untrustworthy” persons and allowed the police to keep records on who acquired or carried firearms.

    The entire lengthy link is well worth reading, and I recommend that you do so.

    In addition to the sort of raids described above, there was also this—it didn’t involve Jews, but it involved ordinary Germans (as early as 1933, when the Nazis first came to power):

    Discovery of firearms by the police “was a first-class justification for the repeated police raids and arrests.”

    …the town’s Reichsbanner (armed section of the Social Democratic party) awaited orders from party headquarters in Berlin to fight the Nazis, but the order never came. “Had it been given, Northeimer’s
    Reichsbanner members would have carried out the tested plan they had worked on so long–to obtain and distribute weapons and to crush the Nazis.” Social Democrats were “the only defenders of democracy in Germany, the men who should have been gathering guns and calling the general strike,” but instead their homes were being raided in midnight arms searches and they were being hauled off to concentration camps.

    The Nazis knew what they were doing, both to the Jews and to the Germans who might resist them. It was done quickly, without warning, and with force.

    As I said, the entire article is very much worth taking time to read. It will make your blood run cold. Here is some background on the article’s author.

  48. neo-neocon Says:

    Frog:

    What part of “And yes, I am…very certain indeed, as certain as humans can be about what goes on in the minds of other humans who have not addressed a subject directly” do you not understand?

    You are guilty of hubris. You, dear Frog, cannot know with 100% certainty anyone’s mind—except, perhaps, your own. That is the human condition. The most you can ever be is “very certain indeed, as certain as humans can be about what goes on in the minds of other humans who have not addressed a subject directly.” Let me add that even if humans have addressed a subject directly, you can never be 100% certain of what they really think or what they will do. People lie, people fool other people, people are polite, people fool themselves, people change over time, etc. etc..

    You can be very very certain, however—but never 100%. Stating that fact is not the equivalent of “not knowing” a person. Certainly you’ve lived on earth long enough to know that.

  49. neo-neocon Says:

    huxley:

    Please read my comment to parker here. I think it’s an important subject

  50. Dave Says:

    which of the following statements from the democrats is true?

    A. ACA will lower everyone’s premium
    B. Affirmative action will improve black children’s academic
    performance.
    C. Gun control will reduce mass shootings
    D. None of the above

  51. Mike K Says:

    Most leftists know nothing about guns and think that automatic weapons are sold in this country. The “Assault Weapons Ban” was concocted by people who had no idea what they were talking about. It was finally dropped after proving it had no effect. The left is showing its real opinion on guns by blocking “stop and frisk” which had real benefit on gun crime in NYC.

  52. parker Says:

    Thanks neo for the correction. My memory is oftten ‘old’.

  53. huxley Says:

    neo: I had read your response and I am aware the Nazis disarmed the Jews before launching the Final Solution.

    My thought was for an alternative history in which the Jews were still armed when the Nazis started corralling them into ghettos for eventual transport to the East.

    When I was liberal, I thought gun control was a slam-dunk obvious response to gun deaths.

    Now I’m not so sanguine about trusting government, even the US government, not to go totalitarian. In which case it’s a better scenario if there is an armed citizenry who won’t go gentle into whatever good night the powers that be have in mind.

  54. Artfldgr Says:

    The Jews at Warsaw held out for a month against the SS with few weapons and little food. They lost, but they took out a few hundred SS before being killed or sent to the camps.

    few compared to german ss
    Marek Edelman, who was the only surviving uprising commander from the left-wing ŻOB, stated that the ŻOB had 220 fighters and each was armed with a handgun, grenades, and Molotov cocktails. His organization had three rifles in each area, as well as two land mines and one submachine gun

    Jewish fighters of the ŻZW received from the Polish Home Army: 2 heavy machine guns, 4 light machine guns, 21 submachine guns, 30 rifles, 50 pistols, and over 400 grenades for the uprising. During the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, ŻZW is reported to have had about 400 well-armed fighters grouped in 11 units, with 4 units including fighters from the Polish Home Army.

    on the how guns were in germany or got that way:

    In 1931, Weimar authorities discovered plans for a Nazi takeover in which Jews would be denied food and persons refusing to surrender their guns within 24 hours would be executed. They were written by Werner Best, a future Gestapo official. In reaction to such threats, the government authorized the registration of all firearms and the confiscation thereof, if required for “public safety.” The interior minister warned that the records must not fall into the hands of any extremist group.

    and

    The German Jews were ordered to surrender all their weapons, and the police had the records on all who had registered them. Even those who gave up their weapons voluntarily were turned over to the Gestapo. This took place in the weeks before what became known as the Night of the Broken Glass, or Kristallnacht, occurred in November 1938. That the Jews were disarmed before it, minimizing any risk of resistance, is the strongest evidence that the pogrom was planned in advance. An incident was needed to justify unleashing the attack.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/365103/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook

  55. huxley Says:

    I was not surprised but still saddened that Adam Gopnik, a writer for the New Yorker whom I had previously admired, jumped on the Las Vegas shootings while the bodies were still warm to launch an attack on the Second Amendment.

    “In the Wake of the Las Vegas Shooting, There Can Be No Truce with the Second Amendment”
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/after-the-las-vegas-shooting-there-can-be-no-truce-with-the-second-amendment

    [Conservatives] don’t have a reason for this fixation [with
    firearms]—no reason can be found. There’s no argument for it—such weapons are useless in sport, except for the sport of using them; they play no role in hunting, or not hunting anything except helpless people; and they protect no one from a tyrannical government, since the tyrannical government, if it would ever come to that, is hardly in need of small-arms fire to assert its will.

    If only I could believe Monsieur Gopnik that I have no need to worry about a tyrannical government. Or if such government came to pass in the US, I should just give up because I was outgunned.

    But I think he’s wrong. The US military is powerful, but unless Washington is willing to nuke all the major redstate cities and wage total war on conservative citizens, those 300 million or more firearms, mostly in conservative hands, will make a difference.

    And a difference I am grateful for.

  56. Paul in Boston Says:

    Some disjointed thoughts on this subject.

    As it says in the Talmud, it’s not the knife, it’s the fool who holds the handle.

    My father survived the Holocaust but seldom talked about it. When he did talk about it he always made it clear that he was ashamed that he hadn’t done anything to oppose the Nazis. The last time we had a discussion about it, he was a very old man in his nineties. I don’t remember what triggered the conversation but he suddenly said, I wish I’d had a gun. I said to him, Dad, isn’t a live dog better than a dead lion? Without hesitation he said, I would have taken a couple of the bastards with me.

    The great Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of the Gulag Archipelago, wrote that there was a constant topic of discussion in the camps, why didn’t we do something when there were so many of us and so few of them? If we’d only organized and armed ourselves with clubs, axes, bats, and iron bars so that the secret police wouldn’t be sure that they would return home alive in the morning when they left home at night, there wouldn’t have been a Gulag.

    Our idiot politicians here in Mass, but I repeat myself, have already started to politicize the tragedy in Las Vegas. So far it’s Sen. Ed Markey, and two Congressmen, Seth Moulton and Joe Kennedy, all calling for gun control and weakening the Second Amendment. No doubt Warren will chime in tomorrow with some hysterical screaming. I wonder how they square this with April 19, 1775 when the regulars marched to Lexington and Concord to take the guns away from the colonists and wound up starting the American Revolution? It was the origin of the Second Amendment.

  57. Esther Says:

    Re guns, Poland and Jews: My mom was a fierce warrior, despite, as she described it, “having it good in the gulag.” Honestly, that didn’t make for the greatest parent, but I’m proud of her.

    If I had to go back in time to walk in her shoes, I’d want a gun.

  58. Esther Says:

    Also, lots of spare shoes, apparently they were worth a lot in trade.

  59. Oldflyer Says:

    Lots of news about the number of guns the killer had. Lots of speculation about how they were acquired. Not too much definitive information.

    Clearly Nevada has lenient laws. But, there are still federal requirements. For instance,although there are news reports that he bought guns in various states, that is a hard thing to do. Gun ownership can only legally be transferred across state lines from a FFL (Federal firearms licensee) to another FFL.

    All FFLs are required to initiate background checks.

    I don’t know if it is a federal or state requirement, but I know that in Virginia you could only buy one firearm, of any type, each month.

    Much will no doubt be made about the loophole of no background checks for private party to private party sales within a state. Nevada passed a law in 2016 that required such checks for private party sales; but, there was some issue with the FBI over conducting such checks, and the Attorney General then chose not to enforce it for various reasons. Unfortunately, that AG is a Republican. I expect that will become an issue if the media ever investigates deep enough to realize that situation exists.

  60. neo-neocon Says:

    Paul in Boston:

    I don’t know your father’s particular situation, but one thing that’s pretty clear is that in general it was exceedingly difficult to have done anything against the Nazis. Not only were guns confiscated (as I described here), but there were a great many other ways in which people were made nearly powerless, or by which resistance was made exceedingly difficult. I discuss some of it here as well as here.

  61. neo-neocon Says:

    artfldgr:

    Halbrook is also the author of the lengthy article I linked to in this comment.

  62. miklos000rosza Says:

    Neo –

    Thanks for the info on how the Nazis disarmed the Jews, un registration serving as a prelude.

  63. GRA Says:

    @ Mike K: ” The left is showing its real opinion on guns by blocking “stop and frisk” which had real benefit on gun crime in NYC.”

    The leftist narrative is that “stop and frisk” is racist, where those that are stopped are majority of PoC. My social work and law class brought it up recently and that was the conclusion of the law professor that taught it.

  64. Rich knudsen Says:

    The Democrats will be lucky if they elect anyone in 2018 in states that swing democrat after this outpouring of hate for other Americans in this hour of tradgety.

  65. TBlakely Says:

    The first step in any genocide is to demonize and dehumanize the target group. Historically we’ve seem many examples of what the left does when it assumes total control with people they find….. inconvenient. I imagine that’s why they are so desperate to disarm us.

  66. abdul7591 Says:

    You know, when that Islamic extremist opened fire on the gay night club in Orlando a year or so ago, the only thing I felt was horror. Even though I was perfectly aware that most of those gay guys were liberals who supported the Democrats, it never occurred to me not to feel anger at what happened to them, because the animal that committed that crime was really a threat to all of us. Most of my relatives are hard core liberals (God give me patience with them), and although I have to admit their politics make me want to puke, the thought that they somehow deserve to be physically harmed for their foolish political ideas has never entered my darkest dream. It’s one thing to be politically aware and engaged, and even to be strongly opinionated (as I am), but if you allow yourself to be so completely defined by your politics that you actually gloat when those whom you think may disagree with you politically are killed, then you need years of psychotherapy, for you are not only not a mentally healthy human being; you are barely a human being at all.

  67. Alec Rawls Says:

    Imagine someone with that kind of viciousness in her heart thinking that she is better than the many charitable people who were murdered and maimed in Las Vegas.

    I disagree that violent hatred comes from both sides at anything but an extremely lopsided rate, and the difference is no accident. I inhabit some small conservative bubbles where there is full recognition that millions on the left are murderously hateful. We have followed the violent attacks on anyone who is identified within a blue enclave to be a Trump supporter and we all know that support for this viciousness is automatic within at least a full half of the Democratic Party. We all know seriously vicious people who have absolutely no excuse whatsoever. Yet nobody I know on the right wants anything but for the law to be enforced.

    We adamantly DO NOT want to ever see any extra-legal force brought down on those who we fully acknowledge to be existential political enemies, because this is the nature of our struggle against them: they are the forces of unrepublican, undemocratic, extra-legal overthrow and usurpation of our republican democracy. We absolutely do NOT want them dead, or harmed in any way.

    If they commit crimes we want them IN JAIL, but so long as they abide by the law we will defend their lives from criminal attack as surely as we will defend our own. That is our battle line. The idea of accepting criminal attack on anyone is viscerally and constantly revolted against.

    When Antifa attacks then of course I want to see them every time get clobbered with the appropriately measured dominating counterforce, and if they come out trying to smash skulls with bike locks I can only pray that they will every time be shot before they can succeed, but that is not criminal violence, that is necessary self-defense. One thing about the “gun toters” who the left so despises: we are forced to repeatedly think through the distinction between aggressive (criminal) use of force and defensive (legal) use of necessary force. We want to adhere to that moral distinction and we want others to be held to it as well.

    Anger is subject to endless evaluations of motivation and interpretation and effect. The beauty of the concept of defensive necessity is that it is completely independent of anger, and as such remains bedrock simple no matter how complex the conflict. Do you actually HAVE to shoot this person to protect yourself or someone else from grave bodily injury? For those who train themselves to think in terms of this rule they will never, no matter how angry they get, want to see the person they are angry at be subject to non-defensive violence, but will want to jump in and stop it.

    Leftists don’t make those moral distinctions. Their minds are just a lump of emotion and illogical rationalizations. They don’t have any actual moral structure. That is why they end up siding with evil, and ultimately sometimes even being evil.

    It’s kind of like the difference between Christianity and Islam. Christians have sometimes waged murderous wars of conquest but they always did so against the teachings of the Gospels. When Muslims wage murderous wars of conquest they are FOLLOWING the doctrines of their religion. Yes, sometimes conservatives fall into the vices of intemperate hatred and ill will, but mostly they are corrected by their legal, moral , and religious understandings. Leftists lack all three and pretty much just let their freak flag fly.

  68. P. George Stewart Says:

    @abdul7591

    “It’s one thing to be politically aware and engaged, and even to be strongly opinionated (as I am), but if you allow yourself to be so completely defined by your politics that you actually gloat when those whom you think may disagree with you politically are killed, then you need years of psychotherapy, for you are not only not a mentally healthy human being; you are barely a human being at all.”

    Well said.

    I’ve noticed a twofold reaction to this event, on the one hand, there’s the usual partisan wishing (wishing it would be a white supremacist, wishing it would be Islamists, etc.), which even though I indulged in it myself, made me start to feel icky, the more I was seeing it from both sides.

    And that’s the other reaction from all this that I’ve noticed, that bodes well. People are waking up a bit from the partisan trance and catching themselves in the act of mindlessly hating and wishing ill on others.

    Hate the sin, not the sinner people. I utterly despise the ideas of the Left, but PEOPLE on the Left who are actually despicable are few and far between – at worst, one considers that large number of people who disagree with one’s own ideas must be misguided. Most people on both sides mean well, we just disagree on methods.

  69. SDN Says:

    Neo. please don’t consider this a recent thing. The right in this country has been demonized for 20 years. If we’ve finally absorbed the lesson “They hate us; they really hate us”, it has taken a generation of constant effort against the Republicans, the NRA, etc. Most of us would be happy to be left alone; the Left has removed that as an option. “You will be made to care.”

    As one small example, remember Michael Moore saying after 9/11 “Why did you crash the World Trade Center? Ney Yorkers didn’t vote for Bush.”

  70. Reformed Trombonist Says:

    The pretense is that all this killing would stop if we would just kill off the Second Amendment and confiscate the guns.

    No. Count the number of deaths in America due to gun violence, and then count the number of deaths in societies where the government has a monopoly on gun ownership.

    Make no mistake: liberals want to take our guns because those guns stand in the way of their plans for us. Anytime you doubt that, just remember what Hayley Geftman-Gold said, and the kind of sympathy conservatives will get once they get the upper hand.

  71. Richard Aubrey Says:

    One of the old sayings I’ve made up is as follows:
    The farther out the outliers lie, the farther out the inliers can lie and not be ouitliers.

    The furthest out outlier–presuming the CBS lawyer is one for the moment–provides cover. If one could quantify her inhuman-ness at 100…it’s okay. She’s an outlier. The rest aren’t like that.
    Okay, so a score of 50 (half) on the inhuman-ness scale is okay because we have a 100 outlier.
    The outlier excuses the inlier, makes it silly to worry about the inlier, they’re only half as bad. No worries.
    So when the outlier is at 200, and half is 100, we have an unacceptable score of inhuman-ness…but, not to worry, it’s not like they’re an outlier or anything.

    Inside her shadow is a bunch of people who are only not quite asa bad. But that is not to say they’re still, you know, human.

  72. arcanearachnid Says:

    I hate them right back, perhaps with greater discernment but perhaps not. We shall have to see what happens when we come to conclusions. This is as good a place to any to explain that BLM, ANTIFA and the NFL Kneelers are protesting the self-defense shootings by cops (of any color now) on criminals in the middle of their final felony. It makes the news less often but you will see that even the victims of these crimes, if they defend themselves, are subject to the same malignant lies and menace as police. From the other side you could say the Left at supports unpunished violence so long as it comes from themselves. It is worse in Europe where open jihad attacks are committed including mass rape but the jihadists are excused on grounds of cultural confusion. And it’s only going in one direction. Hodgkinson’s shooting up the Republican baseball practice is openly celebrated. We shall have to fight and kill a great many of these pukes ‘ere we are done. And we may never be done. Certainly we will never be done if we allow ourselves to be overrun and disarmed.

  73. Steve S Says:

    I am on Facebook. I joined it because of the easy communication to my cousins and nieces and nephews, keeping up broadly with what’s going on in the family. I do not use Facebook for news or ads or feeds or any of that stuff; just family goings-on.

    And it is a virulent leftist bubble.

    The stuff that they post, the snarky banners, the idiotic virtue-signalling, the anti-Christian spew – it’s all there and it’s all well-represented. It was teeth-grinding before President Trump, trying to sort through this to find the actual family news snippets; it has badly degenerated from there since then.

    Yet, when we’re together at weddings or family reunions, they are not like that at all. Who are these online personae?

  74. Dave Says:

    If the main point for having guns is to protect ourselves from a potential rogue government, giving the government the authority to decide who can purchase guns and what king of firearm a person can purchase is against the original intent and counterproductive bc of course the government will find legal loophole ways to deny those they see as potential threats to obtain firearms just like how IRS was targeting conservative group.

    If the liberals are using “the government has such an advance and powerful arsenal of weapons in the event of it going rogue even if every citizen has guns we are still powerless against it” then why do they want to make the government even more powerful, why don’t they want to do something to limit their power knowing that they are already so powerful and the people has no other ways to truly hold it accountable.

  75. Narniaman Says:

    Oh, come on folks.

    Just because CBS announced that they “fired” the attorney, doesn’t actually mean they did completely dismiss her, does it?

    How truthful do you think CBS actually is?

    And do you think that her feelings about the deplorable redneck country music lovers who voted for Trump. . . .aren’t shared by probably a majority of the CBS hierarchy?

    I’m quite confident she was moved to some other position where it looks like she is no longer employed by CBS, but is still as much of the CBS family as ever. . . .

  76. Gringo Says:

    Narniaman
    I’m quite confident she was moved to some other position where it looks like she is no longer employed by CBS, but is still as much of the CBS family as ever. . . .

    While she may really have been fired, it is also true that separation is not necessarily separation. am reminded of a childhood friend who got laid off from a Fortune 50 company. After the layoff, the company wanted her to work as a consultant. Which she did, until a headhunter presented her with an offer she couldn’t refuse.

    Yes, I would wager are a lot of people in her corporate or social bubbles who agree with her about those benighted country music fans. Which is why she readily expressed that opinion. Bob Wills Is Still the King.

  77. DNW Says:

    ” Steve S Says:
    October 3rd, 2017 at 9:16 am

    … a virulent leftist bubble. … the snarky banners, the idiotic virtue-signalling, the anti-Christian spew – it’s all there and it’s all well-represented. It was teeth-grinding before President Trump, trying to sort through this to find the actual family news snippets; it has badly degenerated from there since then.

    Yet, when we’re together at weddings or family reunions, they are not like that at all. Who are these online personae?”

    Apparently it is who they are when they think being that person will cost them nothing …

    You start spitting projectile vomit at an elderly Republican aunt, when at grandma’s funeral, you can write off your chances for getting an invite to the next family reunion.

    Expressing hatred “on principle”, before a cheering gallery, is much more acceptable,

    I’m not even sure they “mean it” in the sense of having thought through what they are saying carefully, rather than just reacting emotionally.

    Neo tends to think that such persons don’t really think too much about issues of freedom; but view political questions from within a framework of personal acceptance … that of being a part of things socially. The right to demand a “Welcome”, then supersedes the right to own and use property, to phrase it somewhat awkwardly

    You are anonymous, as am I and as are most here. You could spit bile if your wanted to. At least for a while.

    Ask yourself why you don’t.

  78. Tatterdemalian Says:

    “The Nazis knew what they were doing, both to the Jews and to the Germans who might resist them. It was done quickly, without warning, and with force.”

    Indeed, but back then propaganda technology was still in the beta stage. If they had the sort of techniques the media uses today, they wouldn’t have needed force, just some Jimmy Jones public figure telling tales about the need to eliminate guns.

  79. Ymar Sakar Says:

    My oldest son is a trial lawyer and lefty, partly at least to tweak me as he has always had a competition thing. We don’t talk the past three years. His wife is a far lefty and stoked the fires, the rest of the family believes.

    Reminds me of why Solomon was commanded not to take certain foreign wives. Not because of any restriction on producing seed for the Most High or Israel, but because foreign wives usually worshiped those other gods the 10 Commandments (one of it) specifically listed out.

    The people you are in closest contact with and for the longest contact with *family* have an inordinate amount of influence. A god would know that, even if humans did not.

    This is why certain faiths either outlaw completely or heavily prohibit marrying outside the faith.

    Solomon ended up using his Ring that commanded the powers of demons and nephiliim, to build up various shrines and temples to other gods. The punishment the Divine Counsel decreed for this breaking of faith and in the divine contract, was that Solomon’s son would be punished, as Solomon himself was exempt due to extenuating promises and contractual obligations to David.

    arcanearachnid Says:
    October 3rd, 2017 at 7:28 am
    I hate them right back, perhaps with greater discernment but perhaps not.

    The hearts of men grow cold. As it hardens, Lucifer’s strategy prevails. Divide and Conquer, have two human factions fight themselves, so that when the real enemy comes online, nobody is ready for it.

    Humans were weak and vulnerable because they refused to believe in the existence of the Leftist alliance’s evil hydra heads. They are still weak and vulnerable because there are greater powers in existence than they know about, or even want to know about. The “Deep State” is deeper than people realize.

    Alec Rawls Says:
    October 3rd, 2017 at 5:49 am
    Imagine someone with that kind of viciousness in her heart thinking that she is better than the many charitable people who were murdered and maimed in Las Vegas.

    I’m not too worried about those souls, they still exist and my god will resurrect them right before the Last Battle, irregardless of who they are. It might mean a few hundred or few thousand years of separation, but you’ll see them again. Although whether anyone will want to see them again or not, is left blank.

    We can’t have a “Last Battle” if we are losing billions of trillions of souls on the battlefield, after all. The Norse call it Ragnarok, where even the gods will die. The gods in this context means Lucifer, the Prince of the Air, the Satanic alliance against the Most High, and the various Watchers and other gods that the nations after the Tower of Babel, were put under. Those gods were as real as the spirits of ancestors and any other supernatural elohim were real.

    Not something the pastors and Vatican priests liked to spread knowledge about, assuming any of them even knew about it.

    You, dear Frog, cannot know with 100% certainty anyone’s mind—except, perhaps, your own.

    The Doctor Class, like DC or Frog, are used to determining the life and death of feeble mortals. Thus they are used to being confident and 100%, even if they are not, in the hopes of making reality match their proscriptions and prescriptions. Of course, divine miracles often upset and overturn first medical opinions, second medical assessments, and tertiary medical judgments…

    That isn’t going to break the confidence of the Doctor Classes however. They are so confident that they are right and I am wrong, that it is meaningless to argue with them. Just wait 5 years, and everything on DNA, Diet, and micro biome bacteria in your gut, will have proven them wrong. Doesn’t even need any work. Technological progress, god tech or angel tech, is progressing so quickly, that in another 5 years, the “experts” of 10 years ago will be seen as Dark Age blood leech users.

    Human arrogance knows no bounds, especially for the wannabe gods that aren’t even immortal yet.

    I don’t see this as anything new. Remember: the stereotype, now decades old at least, is that Republicans think Democrats are stupid, while Democrats think Republicans are evil.

    Correct, Daniel in B. This isn’t new, although I would trace this conflict back even before 1850. Republicans or people who just wanted freedom for humanity called abolitionists, were considered terrorists and “needed killing” by the pro slavers in the US. Of course, the Radical Republicans took power in 1860, but it took them awhile to get together. It is in general at least, not merely “decades old”. Lucifer has been out to destroy allies of humanity since forever. And Slavery 1.0, or 2.0, or 3.0, has always been a useful tool for that war.

    Let’s call upon the infamous Missouri extermination order against American semi abolitionists. America at its bravest and best, right.

    We, the undersigned, citizens Jackson County, believing that an important crisis is at hand, as regards our civil society, in consequence a pretended religious sect of people that have settled, and are still settling in our County, styling themselves Mormons; and intending, as we do, to rid our society, “peaceably if we can, forcibly if we must,” and believing as we do, that the arm of the civil law does not afford us a guarantee, or at least a sufficient one against the evils which are now inflicted upon us, and seem to be increasing, by the said religious sect, deem it expedient, and of the highest importance, to form ourselves into a company for the better and easier accomplishment of our purpose—a purpose which we deem it almost superfluous to say, is justified as well by the law of nature, as by the law of self-preservation.

    It is more than two years since the first of these fanatics, or knaves, (for one or the other they undoubtedly are) made their first appearance among us, and pretended as they did, and now do, to hold personal communication and converse face-to-face with the Most High God; to receive communications and revelations direct from heaven; to heal the sick by laying on hands; and, in short, to perform all the wonder-working miracles wrought by the inspired Apostles and Prophets of old.

    We believe them deluded fanatics, or weak and designing knaves, and that they and their pretensions would soon pass away; but in this we were deceived. The arts of a few designing leaders amongst them have less far succeeded in holding to them together as a society; and since the arrival of the first of them, they have been daily increasing numbers; and if they had been respectable citizens in society and thus deluded it would have been entitled to our pity rather than to our contempt and hatred; but from their parents, from their manners, and from their conduct since their coming among us, we have every reason to fear that, with but very few exceptions, they were of the very drags of that society from which they came, lazy, idle, and vicious. This we can see it is not idle assertion, they fact susceptible of proof, or with these few exceptions above-named, they brought into our country little or no property with them and left less behind them, and we infer that those only yoked themselves to the “Mormon” car who had nothing earthly or heavenly to lose by the change; and we fear that of some of the leaders amongst them, had paid to forfeit due to crime, instead of being chosen ambassadors of the Most High, they would have been inmates of solitary cells. But their conduct here stands their characters in their true colors. More than a year since, it was ascertained that they had been tampering with our slaves, and endeavoring to sow dissensions and raise seditions amongst them. Of this their “Mormon” leaders were informed, and they said they would deal with any of their members who should again in like case offend. But how spacious are appearances. In a late number of the Star, published in Independence by the leaders of the sect, there is an article inviting free Negroes and mulattoes from other states to become “Mormons,” and remove and settle among us. This exhibits them in still more odious colors. It manifests a desire on the part of their society, to inflict on our society an injury that they know would be to us entirely insupportable, and one of the surest means of driving us from the country; for it would require none of the supernatural gifts that they pretend to, to see that the introduction of such a caste among us would corrupt our blacks, and instigate them to bloodshed.

    They openly blaspheme the Most High God, and cast contempt on His holy religion, by pretending to receive revelations direct from heaven, by pretending to speak unknown tongues, by direct inspiration, and by diverse pretenses derogatory to God and religion, and to the utter subversion of human reason.

    Those God Fearing American freedom fighters, right… heh.

    Slave lord Americans had been killing allies of humanity and the Most High, for decades before even 1860 CW 1 started… but I guess nobody actually knows that if they went through public ed. Ever wonder why John Brown got radicalized after fighting slave raiders in Kansas? Kansas…. that’s not a Northern Lincoln stronghold, wasn’t even fully settled at the time. Fighting for State Rights? Was that even a state back then… if the slave lords could ethnically cleanse the free soil abolitionist settlements, of course it would become a Slave State… Home of the Brave indeed. That is indeed a daring execution of ethnic cleansing by the Americans, against other Americans.

    And relax, the second amendment is going nowhere. Here’s a thought, if NRA members are so perfect in their lives and mental health why would they have a problem with thorough vetting to keep horribly dangerous weapons of war out of the hands of crazies?

    This comment is ironically related to other sentiments about how civilians can’t fight an army using guerilla warfare, when they are outnumbered or outgunned.

    With the power of a god on a nation’s side, Israel clearly demonstrated that lack of numbers or martial firepower, wasn’t even a factor any more. Half the tribal nations they exterminated in Joshua’s war of conquest after Moses, were against giants and warriors far stronger than them in muscle melee combat.

    But about the NRA comment, the issue isn’t about how healthy the NRA or 2nd Amendment is. The entire point of additional government oversight over these regulations is to find a way to register who has which guns where. This allowed the Germans to confiscate weapons from Jews, and the Jews submitted because they had already agreed to the registration, and confiscation is a natural power implicit in the registration. Whether the State decides to confiscate or not, is immaterial once they obtain the ability to do it via national registration. Then the State is “allowing” people to have guns, by not confiscating them yet. The power balance shifts just on that point alone… not that I expect Normal humans to figure this out. It is easier to believe in Hussein Obola’s promises that a Light will Shine Down on the unbelievers and make them Believe, or that the Sea levels will lower. Humans are very broken like that, and American Exceptionalism is no exception.

    As for the topic of Warsaw and how civilians with small arms can overcome armies… the example of Warsaw is notable because many of the guerillas and urban fighters did not have arms. They got their munitions and arms from the enemies, and maybe from outside caches or supply lines. Krav Maga had its start somewhere around there. The trick is easy. You get a woman, or a man that is good at spycraft acting, and have them approach the SS sentries or German Army sentries, disarm them via talking, then somebody else or the primary agent uses an unarmed kill technique and executes the sentries. Then their weapons are now your weapons… very easy. And if you can upgrade from unarmed techniques to silenced pistols, then you can take out 2-4 from relatively close range. So long as you get the jump on them, they are not suspicious enough to react in time, and the weapon hits their vital points. It’s not like they had Body Armor…

    So unarmed techniques can get you pistols and rifles. Rifles can get you tanks and other supplies. Consider AQ’s invasion of Iraq, that led to them confiscating all those American tanks that the Iraqis had… lots of lovely drones and aircraft components too, to sell for money, or use up before the desert lack of maintenance kills it.

    Only an inexperienced civilian that has never undertaken guerilla or assassination training, would think an unarmed civilian population is helpless against tanks, airplanes, and rifle armed units.

    That is, of course, intentional. If the State were afraid of us because we knew their weaknesses… why, they might actually have to create a government for the people, by the people, hahaa.

  80. CW Says:

    I guess you could say this gal had a Kathy Griffin-ish day of reckoning in which she learned, to her shock no doubt, that another world exists beyond the cocoon.

    I don’t hate Democrats, per se, but I do hate those on the Left who make it their life’s goal to undermine the Constitution which protects my liberty. I’m talking about the Barack Obama’s of this world who scheme and plot and lie and deceive and manipulate in order to usurp power that rightfully belongs to all of us. I don’t see any equivalent to that on the Right, and by “Right” I mean conservatives.

  81. Gringo Says:

    P. George Stewart
    Hate the sin, not the sinner people. I utterly despise the ideas of the Left, but PEOPLE on the Left who are actually despicable are few and far between – at worst, one considers that large number of people who disagree with one’s own ideas must be misguided. Most people on both sides mean well, we just disagree on methods.

    How many people on the left are standing up to the neo-totalitarians on the left? Not that many. Consider what happened to Charles Murray at Middlebury. The neo-totalitarians got very little negative feedback from the audience, such as “Let us hear what the man has to say.” Which encouraged the neo-totalitarians to ramp their methods up to assaulting a Middlebury professor.

    How many at Evergreen protested the neo-totalitarians? Once again, very few. Very, very few protested the way that professor got railroaded. On the contrary, for the most part Evergreen people supported the professor getting railroaded.
    How many students or faculty at UC Berkeley – or Berkeley residents- protested against the Antifa folk? Once again, very few. Not surprising when you consider that the Mayor of Berserkeley is an Antifa fan. Yes, now that the Demo muckety-mucks realize that the Antifa folk are not helping Demos get votes- NOW we hear some negative feedback from Pelosi and friends.

    Until those on the left stand up to the neo-totalitarians, they are enabling the neo-totalitarians.

  82. DNW Says:

    Alec Rawls Says:
    October 3rd, 2017 at 5:49 am

    Imagine someone with that kind of viciousness in her heart thinking that she is better than the many charitable people who were murdered and maimed in Las Vegas.

    I disagree that violent hatred comes from both sides at anything but an extremely lopsided rate …”

    Are you, “The” Alec Rawls? Son of …?

  83. Sharon W Says:

    Steve S–I have a very low profile on Facebook, in fact I use my husband’s name because I didn’t want to be contacted by people from the past and am only “Friends” w/family members and close friends that have made requests. But my experience is exactly the same as yours. My kids think and live as we do, so this is a regular point of conversation–amazement at the ignorant rants and posting of talking points. The thing is, we have a long history of being the 911 in the family in every sense, but that hasn’t stopped anyone from their blatant insults and diatribe they understand to be directed at positions we hold.

  84. neo-neocon Says:

    SDN:

    No, I don’t consider it a recent thing. I don’t recall it from my childhood, but certainly it’s been around and fairly obvious for decades. I do think it’s gotten worse, though, and certainly people have gotten bolder about it. Social media encourages that.

  85. Paul in Boston Says:

    Neo,

    Irony of ironies. My father was the number two engineer in the Metal-Abteilung in the Lodz ghetto. You can even see his picture from the official archives in the PBS book about the ghetto. One of the things that they made for the SS was bullet shells. The gunpowder and bullets were added elsewhere, not in the ghetto. The Germans weren’t stupid. Otherwise they would have had a huge uprising on their hands.

  86. steven kensington Says:

    neo, I grew up in the Fairfield County sub-bubble, currently live in the Berkeley CA bubble and work in the SF Marin bubble. My kids and all their friends are all Geftman-Golds age, roughly. They all vote democratic because all their friends do and they can all agree that Republicans are bad people. They say Trump sucks in public for the same reason they might say that the 49ers suck again this year. It’s tribal bonding and virtue signalling. They all say that anyone who voted for Trump is despicable. No one ever disagrees with them. (Except me if I’m there so they tend to avoid me.)
    They simply assume all good people, and anyone with any intelligence, feels the same way. So they say it everywhere. Geftman-Gold knew when she spouted off that everyone in the CBS office feels the same way. She’s probably still stunned by the notion that someone thinks anyone should hold back when it comes to comments on the enemy.

  87. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Until those on the left stand up to the neo-totalitarians, they are enabling the neo-totalitarians.

    They are all guilty. Whether by commission or omission. And the penalties aren’t merely the “peanut” wrist slaps in secular human law…

    Sharon W Says:
    October 3rd, 2017 at 12:55 pm

    That’s why you have to put your foot down and make rules for those in the society to benefit from your rescue services.

    This has always been the case that heroes and those with resources are exploited by the weak, lazy, and selfish. If they wish to sustain their social habits, let them seek for help from their allies, the Demoncrats.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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