Paglia and Peterson
Recently someone recommended that I watch a video in which Camille Paglia and Jordan Peterson have a discussion involving—well, the sort of stuff this intense duo likes to discuss. I’m quite familiar with Paglia, but was previously unfamiliar with the intriguing Peterson (author and psych professor at the University of Toronto, and guy who might well qualify as a late entry into this select group of men).
Paglia’s veritable tsunami of words seems to inundate Peterson at first—and who can blame him? But he manages to keep up and provides thoughtful comebacks. I only watched about an hour of it, but plan to revisit Peterson in another post soon.
Time well spent. I love what Paglia says right at the end, and the way she says it. I have been following Dr. Peterson the past few months, and he gives a lot of my formerly inchoate thoughts background and structure. Enjoy!
This woman speaks my mind – only faster. I left academia in the 70s for this reason. I knew I liked her from this or that media article. But this long interview makes me dance with excitement.
It has always amazed me that though we come from such different places, I agree with so much of what Paglia says. How refreshing to hear this duo describe the absolute truth with regard to how our lives have been made so easy by virtue of male prowess and sacrifice. I manage a construction office and I can tell you that I marvel at the strength and ability from laborer to designer that results in a beautiful residence. When I’m following a gardener driving his beaten old truck with equipment on it, I always say a prayer of thanksgiving for his hard work that keeps everything looking so nice. If it was up to me to get that mower on and off the truck–well, just perish the thought! I never take for granted the blessing of turning on a faucet and clean water comes out or flipping on a switch and light is available. I do find myself so disgusted with the Leftists that disparage our western history and men–responsible for so much that makes our lives better and easier. As Paglia said, should the worst happen–it will be men that do the hard work of rebuilding.
Paglia and Dershowitz, only people on the left I can respect since Monihayn and the late great Hitchens left the scene. Too bad, we no longer have a principled opposition on the left. It kept us balanced and able to disagree without rancor. That is gone and we are no longer a civil society. This will not end well.
At the recommendation of one of my children, I recently started listening to Jordan Peterson’s podcasts, which – from the few I’ve heard so far – take myths and Old Testament stories as the jumping-off place for meditations on such things as the nature of evil and the meaning of life. Thought-provoking, unconventional and often inspiring. The first one is here: https://jordanbpeterson.com/2016/12/episode-1/
Here’s my favorite ten minutes of Jordan Peterson. Electrifying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IejKIjC6hw
I discovered Jordan Peterson via the Joe Rogan podcast. Particularly these two podcasts Joe Rogan did with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE
Listening to him talk about Jung’s discussion about the shadow and the last 10 minutes of Podcast #877 was super life affirming.
I have one small personal story.
I’m a Malaysian and by some strange coincidence years ago I had a chat with a former Khmer Rouge soldiers who carried out the executions, including bashing baby’s head against the trees. I asked him how he could do that? He paused and haltingly said “You know it’s just like people you have good days…. and then you have bad days….. and then the tears started flowing and all he could keep saying was good day bad day and that’s it.
That was my shadow moment. I looked at this guy with a broken soul and realized Jesus that could have been me. Cause if you think about it, if I was in the same situation as him I most likely would have done the same thing he did. I mean look when your world has turned into hell like what happened to that Khmer Rouge soldier what do you do? You do horrible things to survive and a part of you dies.
The last 10 minutes of Podcast #877 made me think of that soldier cause just as the same as Dr. Peterson I determined to make sure I would never take the chance. I will not make that choice no matter how much personal harm I get. Listening to him on those two podcasts really hit home that the moral paths I took was the correct one.
Chang Yee Fong:
That’s an amazing story.
Peterson is such an intense guy. You can almost hear giant wheels turning in his brain all the time. He doesn’t suffer fools gladly, or deal in much trivia. Like some of the old Russian literature greats such as Dostoevsky, he goes to the heart of and wrestles with the deepest questions facing human beings.
A friend of mine has been sending me Peterson links lately.
Is this guy another overnight success ten years in the making?
neo,
You’ve missed out if you’re just discovering Jordan Peterson. He has garnered a fairly large following among anti-progressive millennials (including myself) during the last 18 months. At this point, he may have surpassed Thomas Sowell as my favorite public intellectual.
He became big when Canada started pushing for a law to mandate that everyone use transgender pronouns when asked, including new ones like zhe and zir. The University of Toronto, his employer, sent a notice mandating this practice even before the law was passed. Peterson publicly refused, and was enveloped in a storm. The story drew a lot of attention and put a large spotlight on Peterson. He responded extremely well, and was a hot-ticket interviewee for a while. Recently, he has used his new following to branch out on a number of topics.
Count me amongst those beguiled by Peterson. I am a little old to be considered a millennial, but not by much. I wish he’d come into my life 20 years ago.
I watched the Paglia interview and loved it. I would really like to watch it with my wife. Alas, she’d be triggered and lose her mind with rage most likely. Peterson, like Sowell and others, is one of my dirty little secrets.
kind of way ahead of you
he even talked about the movement that i and others started
but note, we listen to paglia cause she is uber woman
but i am like paglia, mancoat and i started MGTOW
we evne have patterson to discuss us like he does paglia
but the familiar is not special
and the unfamiliar is
which is why when i am outside, i am nobody
but behind the red line, they go ooh and ahh…
people are funny creatures to us aspies.
Jordan is a popular professor who harshly criticized MGTOW a few weeks ago and now he regrets it.
Response to Jordan Peterson’s comments on MGTOW
Karen Straugn sets the record straight
(Peterson is one of her favorites EVER!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faeT4fIFAcg
Jordan Peterson’s opinion on MGTOW – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uTMPwFlf9I
Jordan Peterson’s Regret
Jordan Peterson – Apology to MGTOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&v=GN3r12UU68Q
He came around to the movement that we at mancoat started.. Artfldgr, Mechanized, Zen Priest, etc.. we have been wrongly written up in psychology today, have people declaring what we are and not evne know what we started or who.. and we are in all over the world in many languages
but unlike paglia, we didnt become leaders of a mens movement and so on… we didnt make it our lives work as we were not making a movement, we were making a life choice and so on.
the choice was simple and once understood would be easy to understand why it garners so much horror from the feminsits that they do all this
we as a group have decided that its not worth the effort or reward to be entangled with people who hate us, and all the other stuff. we bitch but do not interfere with what they want and we dont care. what we care about is that we as persons are treated with respect, and if that means being alone instead of supporting the cultural normalized (as we see it) wack jobs, then that means that we are going our own way… we do not hurt women, we do not play them, we do not bother with them other than normal social interaction in terms of normal life. but we dont buy them houses give them children and get kicked out of the home, because we are not there… we are with friends, having good times, and not being entangled.
they confuse the bitching with action, which it isnt
its just venting and thats it, the rest of the hwole thing is must mind your own business and dont get involved with something that will ruin you and leave you debased, alone, rejected by society, hated by your kids, bankrupted and potentially carrying a desease depending on sweet heart
do we say never marry? no, i married. i am mgtow. but i married a more traditional foreign woman with similar values on family, and friends and such. so i go to family things, and funerals in other countries adn she observes mine.
isnt that better than the one that bankrutped me, destroyed my local and other family, robbed them, faked her murder, faked crimes i didnt do, stole the kid, pl,ayed the police and all that…
oh… what for? money and whatever crazy thing in her head
and no defense, nothing… i suffered greatly and as Peterson says in his apology about people like us that were run over.
may i point out that we dont police the guys and there are a lot of assholes who think this means something it doesn and make us all look bad… keep that in mind.
but MGTOW is now a thing..
a big thing
and you have a founder here for all these years
now i am back over at Mancoat..
working the movement more..
because here nothing happens but discussion
there things happen that we change the world
heck..
look above..
you read about us and the people that comment and write about us… king of funny… dont ya think?
Hitchins wasn’t bad for an atheist. In some ways, I prefer people to be atheists than the ones that believe in a god.
Although the atheists that are just Lucifer worshippers or who want to put themselves on the Divine Throne, I consider fakes and glorified megalomaniac power mongers. Those would be the militant atheists like Dawkins, replacing one ideology with another dogma. The State is now their God.
Hitchens was closer to the original meaning of atheism, the belief in no gods or the resistance to the rule of the gods.
He never did find any supernatural proof, from his peers and fellows. Then again, there wouldn’t be in academia or the intellectual circles. You have to go way off the dogma track to find someone like me, or a non orthodox theologian or academic. Go off the beaten track far enough and you’ll find a Tesla too.
I’ll take a glance at these videos, perhaps there will be something at my level. I got bored of regular academic debates, because there were too many holes in their positions and strategies. It was more efficient to seek education, enlightenment, and information from the Holy Ghost than humans.
when you listen to this
Jordan Peterson’s opinion on MGTOW
IF you listen to it
you will find him pontificating and of course others love it because he is talking about somethng he doenst know, to people that dont know it, and it sounds right to them. so its all good
but when i listen to it, he gets it ALL Wrong.
and people LOVE him for that.
its so wrong its not even right
he makes grandiouse bs statments about archetypes..and mysterious woman and dragons and so on… its all bs.
no one thinks like that, and those are constructions that have no ability to be validated…think about that..
so he says we have had a bad relationship and so, hate all women. no. we recognize a system that gives us no fair shake, and since it doesnt, the Risk reward formula is not good when your lifes work savings and so on are on the table.
50% of marraiges end in divorce
so, flip a coin… whether or not your going to lose what you have for a 1 year marraige… or what about marrying, and finding out she wanted a green card? or that she cheated on you, but you still have to pay alimony… to her and her boyfriend..
no.. not all do this.
we know that.
but we also know that in the west, this is now a way of life
i am married.
i am mgtow.
i did not do what he says and teaches his students
who then go out and like racialists attack people and so on
yeah… maybe if i teach that jews have big noses, always make deals, and are money grubbing, and they believe me, THEN WHAT?
thats why i am so upset tht you people love this bs artist
and he got a big backlash all over
Karen Straughn is reallys mart and articulate
and she is part of MGTOW
you mean there are women in MGTOW?
yes. they are mothers. they are wives
they are the person that comes AFTER the horrid person that peterson gives license to.. cause in his archtypes women is good man is bad is imprinted!!!!!!!! you can tell between the videos because he got snagged…
my ex tricked a pregnancy out of me..
yes, tricked. easy to do since women have over 28 forms of birth control, and men have only three (crap cheap rubbers cause they are free for women cost for men, sterlization, or dont do anything. thats it).
she then proceeded to clean out my accounts.. why? cause the law forces her to have access – and we werent married..
then she teams up with a welfare counceleor with the idea that if she fakes her murder, she can bankrupt me (and get more money cause i have no more bills), keep the kid (As i must be an abuser), get me back for nothing, and get alimoney and more.
nice.
destroyed my career, family relationships, and all
a really good career
couldnt get rid of her, you know you cant kick someone out
she really set it up (like gone girl!!! not kidding)
[edited for length by n-n]
by the way, he basically says that if you have problems with women, its cause they are telling you and the problem is you
you think the person who faked ther murder
bankrupted me
took the kid for money
then later took the kid, and her two kids and robbed a bank
was really right and i was the wrong bad guy?
well, ya know. thats what he teaches his students
(oh, and visa versa. the guy is a jerk and beats on her, and its her fault caue she isnt listening either.. )
makign great relationships.
but you guys dont get that
you LIKE this.
so its ok…
cause you dont know and he doesnt, and the ignorance party is so wonderful that way… (Which is why everyone hates the perosn that points things out, wrecks the ingorance party and the fun of hateful commiseration!!!)
Peterson can’t seem to figure out the logic behind why the Leftist alliance is set up as it is. That’s most likely because he has to look Deeper, behind the puppet masters controlling the Left. If the Leftist alliance was independent, then you could calculate or rationalize out the motivations of why they became allies and why they do what they do. But if you can’t factor in external control factors you weren’t aware of, then his brainpower can’t reach the solution.
Art, you tend to get triggered by this kind of talk, because your academic superiors and fellows indoctrinated you into a certain type of mind controlled reaction. You should find a way to rip out your puppet masters first, before reacting to the triggers.
Simon:
Yes, he is very beguiling. Very intense. Every now and then a flash of humor, but mostly very very serious. You can really feel that his brain is working on the Big Things all the time. He generates a kind of laserlike intellectual heat.
a changer story
Cassie Jaye: Why I Stopped Being a Feminist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqbqUMXinQ
at least she is quite erudite and self reflective…
Paglia operates in the stratosphere. I suppose that’s her job.
But Hefner told guys, especially guys not particularly successful with women–or just getting started–that the lovely girl next door would make herself naked “just for you”. And you didn’t have to do anything.
The emanations from that toxic brew were not good.
Maybe, for those who read the ads, using a top-end cigarette lighter would help you when a book of matches from a truck driving school might not be so impressive.
The emanations from that toxic brew were not good.
It became very profitable however. Like Hollywood, I wonder exactly how much taxes we get for degrading social morality and standards. Maybe the answer, as it was with Hollywood, is pretty much nearly “zero” taxes, except for individual income.
They talk about pornography, but the issue is primarily economic. Without an economy of scale, sin cannot become sustainable. Not even the Pilgrims could make communism work, and they tried while betting their lives on it.
neo-neocon Says:
October 6th, 2017 at 2:18 pm
If you were talking about Peter there, then it’s likely because Peterson has an emphasis on intellectual truths and pursuits. Now that may be a mask to cover other things, and given how I don’t trust humans, it is the best analysis to my ability I could make.
He looks like he is actually trying, and some of his positions mirror Red Pill or Alt Right alliance positions.
Stump Says:
October 5th, 2017 at 11:05 pm
neo,
You’ve missed out if you’re just discovering Jordan Peterson. He has garnered a fairly large following among anti-progressive millennials (including myself) during the last 18 months. At this point, he may have surpassed Thomas Sowell as my favorite public intellectual.
Most of what he illuminates are something I’ve already researched between 2007-2012. It’s nice that the Alt Right Red Pill Awakeners are waking up to the limit of the problems humanity faces, though. But they are still late comers.
Humans require leaders to organize and think at strategic levels. Perhaps this is a necessary compromise, since otherwise humans are too lazy or ignorant or average or normal to do the job.
The idea of “equality” was a lie, and even above that, it could never become the truth. Because people don’t want to do the same things at the same level.
It’s wonderful to find a discussion of important matters by two exceptionally well-educated and thoughtful intellectuals and to see that they come to the same conclusions that I have about what the problems is and how to correct it. This did my ego a great deal of good.
I have railed about the decline in educational standards at the public school level, led by the teachers’ unions, and by the decline of the educational standards of secondary schools, led by the administrative bloat, the soft sciences and the lack of a core curriculum for many years.
I have attributed that decline to the educational system being taken over by the 60’s revolutionary hangers-ons who were in the revolution because it was easier than doing the work required to really learn anything. So they went into the educational system as soft sciences or education majors because those were the easiest majors for people who already thought they knew it all and weren’t interested in learning anything new.
Another large group of the same people went into both entertainment and news media for the same reasons.
Paglia and Peterson have a wonderful way of getting to the essence of the problems facing society today. Thank you Neo for posting their excellent conversation.
Peterson is another Left-to-Right conversion story (per Wikipedia)
“According to Peterson, he learned to read at the age of three.[1] When he was 13, he was introduced to George Orwell, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and Ayn Rand by his school librarian Sandy Notley – Rachel Notley’s mother. He also worked for the New Democratic Party (NDP) throughout his teenage years, but grew disenchanted with the party due to what he saw as a preponderance of “the intellectual, tweed-wearing middle-class socialist” who “didn’t like the poor; they just hated the rich”.[1] He left the NDP at age 18.[4]”
More on Peterson’s initial “cause” that drew viewers to his previously unremarked YouTube channel.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/10/05/protesters-decry-u-of-t-professors-comments-on-gender-identity.html
Peterson also said he wasn’t backing down from (his) stance on pronouns.
“I’m not going to use pronouns that aren’t part of the standard English language corpus, and I’m not going to be compelled to do that,” he said.
“You could say . . . ‘Can’t you just use the pronoun so you won’t hurt someone’s feelings?’ It’s like, not hurting people’s feelings is not actually my paramount concern . . . . My primary ethical concern is to say what I think and to do that very carefully, and that’s partly because, lots of times, people’s feelings are hurt in the short run by all sorts of things that are good in the medium and long run.”
Great interview, as usual with Camille Paglia (and Peterson too).
At 1:22:00, Paglia gets outraged that leftists joined onto the Title IX effort and calls them frauds, presumably for supporting fascistic control of students’ lives.
And I guess she’s right: the people who supported this are not classical liberals, but statists. The entire point of Title IX was to EMPOWER the administrations and Women’s Studies departments to take over the whole campus.
I would bet that Obama didn’t even come up with the idea on his own, but was petitioned by Those Who Stood to Benefit.
Paglia is a bit naive to think the 1960s sexual revolution was something beneficial, or merely because her own generation could handle it.
This has been planned for a long time coming, probably before Paglia was even born.
She, and her generation, were not the controllers. They were just the marks.
Empowering student organizations and teacher unions to take over campus, in order to control indoctrination of the young, has been a Leftist mainstay strategy since the 1930s at least. And eugenics based programming of slaves, has been an American thing since at least 1830, when slaves were banned (including whites) on pain of death or legal punishment, from being taught how to read. Because if animals could read the Bible, there would be a problem when the Southern Baptist or Baptist preachers had to explain how animals can’t become baptized after converting to the Gospel.