November 10th, 2017

The Roy Moore sex allegations

The accusations against Alabama’s Republican candidate Roy Moore are the talk of the day.

First let me get this out of the way: I’m not a Roy Moore fan and never have been. But this story is particularly disturbing to me, and for the same reason I’m often disturbed by sexual allegations against candidates of all stripes and persuasions. It’s especially true of sexual allegations that are raised long after the fact—in the Moore case long long after the fact—and that are raised in the heat of a political race or political appointment.

That doesn’t mean such allegations are false. But it certainly doesn’t mean they’re true, either. I’ve never been one to subscribe to the belief that there are no false accusations. Unfortunately, there are plenty of them, although I tend to think that the majority of allegations are true. Problem is that in the absence of evidence, we are left with he-said/she-said situations (or sometimes same-sex allegations, but you get the idea). And there is ordinarily very weak or no evidence in these cases.

The closer in time the offense occurred to when it was reported to authorities and/or made public, the more likely it is to be true (and the likelier that the recollections of the parties are not tainted by the passage of time). But timing is hardly definitive, either. The farther away from an election or appointment an accusation is made the more likely it is to be true, also. In the case of Moore, the accusations fall flat on both those points. Which doesn’t mean they’re false. But it certainly doesn’t mean they’re true.

Politics is a dirty dirty business. People lie—and not just in politics, but the stakes are particularly high in politics. In the current climate, sexual allegations of any sort (the ones against Moore involve things like kissing, but they also involve one underage child of 14) are exceptionally volatile and potentially powerful.

At this point, just about any woman who’s ever had contact with a politician has the power to destroy him (I use “woman” and “him” because that’s the usual case, but it’s hardly limited to that combination of sexes, nor is it limited to politicians although they’re an especially visible example).

I detest this situation, and I’ve detested it for years. During the Anita Hill hearings, I was a Democrat. I didn’t want more SCOTUS justices who were conservative, but I was nevertheless uneasy about the hearings. I didn’t buy that Hill was lying, but I realized that the potential was there and there was no evidence she was telling the truth, either.

Legal proceedings guard against these sorts of excesses because the rules of evidence require that accusations be backed up. There’s a reason for that—our legal system prefers that a guilty person go free rather than that an innocent person be imprisoned, although it also is constructed with the belief that the system is the one most likely to arrive at the truth of the matter and the goal of only imprisoning those who should be imprisoned. Trial by rumor or newspaper (or even by extra-judicial hearing, as with Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas) doesn’t cut it.

It’s bad to let perpetrators go free because people are afraid to speak up. But it’s bad to give all accusers this kind of power to destroy someone outside of a court of law. And it’s bad for people to withdraw from a race even if innocent.

In this, I believe that Donald Trump has gotten it correct:

Like most Americans, the President believes we cannot allow a mere allegation, in this case one from many years ago, to destroy a person’s life.”

“The President also believes that if these allegations are true, Judge Moore will do the right thing and step aside,” she said.

I have one disagreement with that statement, however—I would replace the word “will” with the word “should.”

[NOTE: By the way, the fact that some accusers get other people to say that the accuser had told them about the abuse long ago isn’t definitive, either, although it helps to indicate that the accusations are more likely to be true. But I have seen how often people can get friends and family to corroborate lies, if all are motivated towards a certain desired end.]

[NOTE II: In the case of Roy Moore, the allegation that seems to matter most is the one about the 14-year-old. The age of consent in Alabama is 16, and the other accusers say that Moore tried to date them or kiss them at ages that varied from 16 to 18. The allegations from the then-14-year-old (Moore was 32 at the time) are more significant in terms of what is alleged to have happened, but also of course because of her age.

I’ll add that in Moore’s case it’s very curious that the accusations didn’t come out earlier during Moore’s long and controversial public career, or even earlier during this particular 2017 campaign. The timing is such that he cannot now be forcibly removed from the ballot because the September 27th deadline has passed. The only remedy would be a write-in campaign, but that runs the risk of splitting the GOP vote in Alabama.]

106 Responses to “The Roy Moore sex allegations”

  1. parker Says:

    While it is possible Moore, 30 odd years ago, engaged in questionable behavior with an under age girl, the timing of this allegation doesn’t pass my sniff test.

  2. Griffin Says:

    Have no idea obviously if these allegations are true or not but this entire rolling sexual assault/harassment saga is veering close to witch hunt levels.

    And the timing of this particular story stinks to high heaven.

    What a depressing and disheartening time we live in.

  3. vanderleun Says:

    I think it is getting long past time to start blaming some of these latter-day “victims.”

  4. Mike K Says:

    This is a classic WaPoo hit piece timed to appear after the deadline to replace him as a candidate. They slimed George Allen, too and that was when he gave them that “macaca” opening but Larry Sabato participated in the lies and I have not trusted him since.

    Ted Stevens knows how this works, wherever he is.

  5. Stu Says:

    The right to cross examination in a Court of Law is one of our greatest tools of justice. Without it, we have star chambers.

  6. Tom Says:

    The timing on this makes it difficult to believe the accusations. Particularly for the reason you gave Neo, it’s too late to put someone else in. We definitely can’t know the truth before the election, but the accusations have the same effect whether true or not. They give a reliably Republican senate seat to a Democrat in a year where they have a lot of seats to defend.

  7. Irv Says:

    This is an interesting pattern with the most obvious examples both of Obana’s elections for the IL Senate and the U.S. Senate. Also notice it’s similar to the last minute charges against Trump. As you said, Neo, it’s too similar to what happened in the Thomas hearings. There’s always just enough truth to the charges that they can be manipulated to sound a lot worse than they actually were.

    I don’t believe in coincidence when it comes to this type of charge. Until there’s real proof I’ll stick with the judge and even then I’d have to know a lot more of the actual circumstances. This really doesn’t pass the smell test.

  8. Jenk Says:

    This reeks of the LBJ “pig-lover” strategem against a political opponent….

  9. Dobbins Says:

    Considering that the WAPO decided to announce these allegations, at the worst possible time, in itself makes the allegations stink to high heaven.

    I’m tired of all the fake political crimes, from the Duke Lacrosse scandal, to the current fake race taunting at the U.S. Air Force Academy. Moreover, all of the fake political crimes (100%) originate from the Left, and significantly from the establishment Left.

    This stinks, and I don’t think the allegations are true.

  10. Dave Says:

    hit pieces from the democrats a month before an election is to be expected, it is the reactions from RINOs like Mitt Romney, John Mccain and National Review that make me sick. Are you people awake yet, the only true conservatives, Patriots and republicans are Donald J Trump and his allies. The victims waited 40 years and only come out to make the accusation 1 month before the election, give me a break. And we should believe them just they have made the accusations? I wouldn’t even condemn Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey without evidences, we were mostly condemning Weinstein’s friends who said nothing about his behaviors when it was well known in the circle. coincidentally usually we have October surprises, but because the special election is on December they move the surprise to November, come on do the timing of these surprises have to align so darn perfectly, do they really absolutely have to be a month before elections? I have an absolute disdain for this man called John Mccain and thank god I didn’t vote for this man, no matter how bad Obama was John Mccain is 100x worse, I really do, this traitorous piece of human feces makes me sick, I used to think he is a patriot and hero, now i seriously believe all the accusations about him abetting the Chinese and Vietnamese to fight America, because that is absolutely things he would do based on what he is doing now betraying Americans and Conservatives.

  11. Linda Says:

    Peter King opened his yap and said Moore should drop out unless he can prove his innocence. King is not fit to serve in the House.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359802-gop-lawmaker-roy-moore-should-drop-out-unless-he-can-prove-his-innocence

  12. Cap'n Rusty Says:

    It seems curious that the “most serious” improper behavior is alleged to have occured with a 14 year old girl. The other, less serious, “allegations” relate to 16 and 18 years olds. Now, if some guy attempted to have sexual relations with a 14-year-old, and did not succeed, wouldn’t you expect he’d try again, but with an older girl, expecting better odds of, um, getting to home base?

  13. Ken Mitchell Says:

    “Politics is a dirty dirty business. People lie—and not just in politics, but the stakes are particularly high in politics. ”

    The problem in recent years is that politics has become SO important that the lure of political POWER – and doing WHATEVER it takes to obtain it – has become almost irresistible. Lie, cheat, slander, do whatever is required to gain the power. And if you need to suborn perjury or slander, then so be it.

    I know almost nothing about Roy Moore. I think people who wear cowboy hats and leather vests in an office environment are weird, and as an NRA member, I’m put off by a man who pulls a gun while standing at a podium, and I was disappointed that it was such a SMALL gun. I’ve always believed that if you were going to draw your gun, you’d better be prepared to use it.

    However, because it is so incredibly convenient that Moore’s accuser has come forward at the LAST MINUTE, I’m very skeptical about the claim. She’s held this grudge for FORTY YEARS? I don’t buy it.

  14. Ann Says:

    Just read the Wash. Post article on this, and I believe Leigh Corfman’s account of what happened to her at the age of 14 because of this part:

    After talking to her friends, Corfman says, she began to feel that she had done something wrong and kept it a secret for years.

    “I felt responsible,” she says. “I felt like I had done something bad. And it kind of set the course for me doing other things that were bad.”

    She says that her teenage life became increasingly reckless with drinking, drugs, boyfriends, and a suicide attempt when she was 16.

    As the years went on, Corfman says, she did not share her story about Moore partly because of the trouble in her life. She has had three divorces and financial problems. While living in Arizona, she and her second husband started a screen-printing business that fell into debt. They filed for bankruptcy protection three times, once in 1991 with $139,689 in unpaid claims brought by the Internal Revenue Service and other creditors, according to court records.

    In 2005, Corfman paid a fine for driving a boat without lights. In 2010, she was working at a convenience store when she was charged with a misdemeanor for selling beer to a minor. The charge was dismissed, court records show.

  15. Dave Says:

    Why political hit pieces always involve sexual assaults but rarely murder, curruption, stealing drug selling and millions of other crime a person can commit? it is because it is so darn easy to frame someone for sexual assualt, you don‘t need evidence, only an acquaintance who is willing to make the accusation, the press on the opposite side who is willing to sell the stories, and people on your side who is willing to betray for whatever selfish reasons, and it is up to you to prove your innocence in a he says she says situation. What can a person do to prove that he didn’t do something to another person 40 years ago? If you accuse of someone of beating you up, at least you have to have a hospital record to prove it. No, not sexual assaults, all you need is someone to accusing you of touching her on some body parts and you are guilty, how easy is it. Teachers should never consider to become politicians, all your opponents need is one of your former student to come out saying you touched her and your career is over, how absurd. Bill Clinton was different, he had semen on her blue dress.

  16. Dave Says:

    Maybe if liberals truly want people to believe sexaul assault victims‘ accusations more they shouldn’t advice them to always make accusations only right before elections.

  17. Mr. Frank Says:

    Many posters noted the timing of the charges at the last minute when it is too late to change the names on the ballot. That favors the Dems. It reminded me of the dump of a reported DUI by George Bush a few weeks before the election. It’s what they do.

  18. George Boyer Says:

    Yes, it is a late hit and a smear job. Couldn’t happen to a nicer fellow. Moore is a huge liability now, but so he was a month ago as well, these allegations do nothing to change that reality.

    The Alabama Republican voters chose poorly, and now they will have to live with their choice.

    Roy Moore is a loathsome charlatan, posing as a Christian, American, and Conservative, and doing a poor job of being convincing at any of them.

    I detest his enemies and the people behind the timing of this late hit, but his supporters are no better than his enemies. What a disgraceful situation.

  19. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    John McCain made improper advances to me when I was a young man.
    That’s my story, and you can’t prove otherwise.
    He should step down immediately.

  20. parker Says:

    “I believe… because”

    So you believe after nearly 40 years Corfman who has admittedly lived a very irresponsible, disasterous life… 3 husbands, etc came forward with this accusation a month before an election? All I can say is WTF.

  21. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    Dave and Linda: plus one each.

  22. parker Says:

    George Boyer,

    The voters of AL get to choose. The voters of Cook County got to choose BHO to the Illinois senate and later all of Illinois choose bho for the US senate. The voters of the 57 states got to choose bho would serve 2 terms as POTUS.

    So what is your point? I will reluctantly choose a Moore over a McCain. McConnell, or a bho or a hrc. That is politics. We have choices, choose wisely young Skywalker. ;-}

  23. Matt_SE Says:

    One of the women allegedly works for the Democrats as a sign-language interpreter. There are other allegations that women were approached by reporters promising to pay them “thousands of dollars” to accuse Moore.

    Coupled with the timing and the general moral panic sweeping the country, I’d say there’s an 80% chance this is bullshit.
    I’d bet McConnell had a hand in it.

  24. parker Says:

    Matt_SE,

    I would not bet against you on the possible McConnell involvment. Trust but verify.

  25. Dave Says:

    I want to puke everytime i hear “i am a father of a daughter too therefore i have to condemn this act blah blah blah”. What about your son, your father or your brother? how would you feel if a male blood relative of yours get his live destroyed by a false rape accusation? Charles blow how would he feel if his son get falsely accused of rape by a white woman in Yale like in the to kill a mockingbird, should we believe the woman’s story always, why didn’t democrats believe the story told by bill’s alleged victims?

  26. Terrence Condolini Says:

    This was a hit job by the GOPe. Just one more reason to primary them all out of office.

  27. Dave Says:

    Yeah we should only care about the feelings of women, and for the guys’ who’s lives were destroyed by false rape accusations who give a darn. I have a proposal, if caught lying the false rape accuser should get the same penalty as the guy as if he was convicted. If the maximum sentence of the indictment is 15, the false rape accuser would get 15 years. I knew it when the liberals were up to something when they exposed Weinstein, I just didn’t know they were laying a trap for moore

  28. Dave Says:

    Kat Timpf I used to like her a lot on the gutfeld show wow her Tweets and writings regarding this incident is quite eye opening. What a neocon shill? We shouldn’t condone molestation for political reasons but we have to believe the accusers’ stories when the timing is clearly politically motivated. Let’s throw away a person’s due process because his political enemies make an accusation against him 1 month before the election. Go to the hell, if you don’t want to maga then join the democrats, stop pretending 2b on our side while stabbing in our back, even a socialist like Bernie knew when to put aside differences for the good of the party. Why are there real conservatives supporting bush, McCain, mitt Romney?They oppose due process, they are against free speech, they are pro open borders, they like sending our soldiers to die for meaningless wars and say nothing when the democrats insult our flag, they saved obamacare, they sell out Christianity to virtue signal, they are against tax reform, they are against tariffs on foreign goods but have no problem with foreign countries putting tariffs on our stuff… tell me one thing these rinos support that is conservative please,

  29. Dave Says:

    I don’t condone sexual assaults, but I condone due process and the principles of innocent until proven guilty. Even if Moore is a real chomo I will stand by his right to a fair trial, not witch hunt and public lynching. Hey I thought National review and Ben Shapiro were supposed to be this mystical creature called constitutionalist. “You only get due process in the court of law not an election” mitt Romney what a loser, if this is not a court of law why are you trialing Moore? Why are you convicting him if this is not a court of law?

  30. Dave Says:

    So a fair trial is not allowed during an election but public lynching does, I got it mitt, thank you for show your true face creature of the black lagoon

  31. Ann Says:

    Some more in the Wash. Post article:

    Corfman, 53, who works as a customer service representative at a payday loan business, says she has voted for Republicans in the past three presidential elections, including for Donald Trump in 2016. She says she thought of confronting Moore personally for years, and almost came forward publicly during his first campaign for state Supreme Court in 2000, but decided against it. Her two children were still in school then and she worried about how it would affect them. She also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.

  32. Dave Says:

    Anna navarro says she is a Republican too, to make her criticism of trump more powerful with the even the people from your side disagree with you effect. Why specifically mention she is a trump voter, they are just trying to make her more credible and less partisan.

  33. Dave Says:

    The problem is choosing this time to make the accusations public doesn’t help her, she has destroyed her credibility completely even if everything she said was true, her case will go away without justice after the election is over, she is just being the tool of the left to regain power. Do you think the left believes her, nah, they pretend to be furious by it as long as the fury can hurt trump. Of course you can argue only during elections that the public would care about some 40 year old sexual assaults and it’s her last chance to get even, but you can also argue that she will never get the justice she deserves since this has been politicalised, it has been tainted. Besides, this is not fair to Moore, so you have waited 40 yrs to make the accusation, at a time that Moore will never be able to prove his innocence, we are basically taking her words and the left’s hate for gop for it, is it real justice? That is why status of limitation is important, you can’t just show up and say someone did something to you 40 years ago. So does the number of potential victims matter, for a sexual predator running at large for 70 years 4 is a relatively Minot number, besides half the country thinks trump is hitler does that make it true?

  34. TommyJay Says:

    Ann Coulter made a good point. Robert Toricelli was weeks past his removal from the ballot deadline, and the Dems snatched his name from the ballot anyway. Somehow rules only apply to Republicans. This definitely has the GOPe fingerprints all over it.

  35. Dave Says:

    Neo:

    Sorry I hastily left a bunch of ranting comments before reading your article first only find out afterwrd that you made pretty much all the points I wanted to make only 1000 times better. I am late to the party but how did such an sensible and intelligent person like you supported John mccain and mitt Romney. I have followed America politics for 3 years during this time nothing these two persons have said and done showed they care anything about conservativism or the well being of America or the Republican Party. What a joke, these two despicable beings were the best of the party could find and your previous presidential candidates? No wonder this party was in such a dire straits and garnered such poor reputation among the public. Conservativism not dying in the hand of these people was a miracle. People said trump’s tweet were bad, mitt Romney’s tweet calling for Moore to drop out is legendary and only exacerbate by the letter limit recently expanded, showed his complete disregard of law and order and fairness and justice.

  36. The Other Chuck Says:

    Women’s Abuse Advocate: How did it make you feel? Did you feel responsible?

    Corfman: Yes I guess I was responsible. I must have done something bad.

    Women’s Abuse Advocate: How did it affect you after that? Did you have trouble relating to men?

    Corfman: Yes. I’ve been married and divorced several times.

    Women’s Abuse Advocate: Did you have other problems?

    Corfman: Yes. I’ve had many problems. Bankruptcy, divorce, selling beer to minors.

    Women’s Abuse Advocate: It’s good you can see how this event as a 14 y/o girl traumatized you and led to many problems as an adult.

    Corfman: Yes, I see that. I’m so thankful you have shown me that none of this is my fault.

    Women’s Abuse Advocate: You need to bring this out in the open. You will never fully heal until this is exposed and he pays for what he did to you.

    Corfman: Pay? You mean I can get money out of this?

  37. Dave Says:

    Every day trump is showing conservatives that he truly is head and shoulders better candidate than every republican from the general election and has a much better sense of justice and right from wrong than everyone else, and the guts to fight for what he believe. Ted Cruz lacks the charisma and the if Buddha stands in my way I am going to cut him off mojo that trump has. Trump doesn’t have the articulation to accurately get his messages across, which is understandable since debating is not part of his trade.

  38. Dave Says:

    There is another thing worth mentioning. most sexual assaults accusations against conservatives don’t involve penetrations, just kissing touching and verbal (Thomas Clarence, trump, o’reiliy, and Moore). But the accusations against democrats mostly involve actual penetration or at least indisputable heinous acts like sexting and masturbating in front of unwilling participants. By equating the two heaven and earthly different degrees of sexual assault, looming them into the same blanket category and saying both sides got accused of the same amount of sex crimes is a total lie. Not keeping scores but come on accusations against the left are way more serious with someone famous like wiener actually get thrown in jail for. One accusation against trump was trump forcefully kissed a miss universe contestant in public, Jesus if that is sexual assault how many sexual assaults have joe Biden have committed in his life time.

  39. Dave Says:

    For democrats even with penetration it is not sexual assault but for conservatives especially trump even a polite social cheek kiss is rape, and because the left control the narrative with their msm they can label it however they want to with two totally different standards based on the party affiliation of the accused.

  40. Dave Says:

    Usually the msm reports a sexual assault accusation against a conservative with a serious and condemning heading, only after reading the content you would find out all bill o’reiliy did was calling an African America woman hot chocolate. Bill o’reiliy and Harvey Weinstein are as notorious as each other in the eye of the msm, but when you consider accusations against bill were verbal and debatable, while Weinstein’s accusations mostly involve actual sexual acts you would find that it is absurd that their alleged acts were treated the same by the msm. Not condoning what bill did but you are talking about an old man thinking too much of himself trying to impress ladies with his smooth sexual jokes vs actual sex acts, equating two things require some serious mental dishonesty.

  41. expat Says:

    I think Bannon is the one who has to go.

  42. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    Why the big uproar over something that might have happened 40 years ago and the total disinterest in what Clinton did last year?

  43. Da Bear Says:

    A really nasty Demo-rat / Deep State / RINO political smear of particularly poor quality, and impeccable timing.

    FORTY YEARS AGO ..in a rural Chirstian state like Alabama, everyone knew everybody’s “dirty” business. If any of this were true, it would have come out then or in subsequent elections.

    Nothing, nada, zip had ever been openly said about this Moore character. IN FORTY YEARS.

    I call BS on the WashPo and the DC swamp that has metastasized our national soul.

  44. Bob Bach Says:

    I understand people’s reservations given the late disclosure of these events. The post Weinstein era, I think, has led many women victims to be more willing to come forward. That doesn’t mean all are truthful, but it is still not easy for most to to come forward. In light of this, the following ad from Strange campaign should give all pause on Moore.
    Watch GOP Sen. Luther Strange accuse Roy Moore of being soft on pedophiles back in September – The Week
    https://apple.news/AWvWHYfDjRyGfuh9R_I8DUg

  45. Whitehall Says:

    Young women ripen early in the Deep South. Early marriage is also a hold-over custom from the Scot-Irish culture of the early settlers.

    And I would check that age of consent at the time of the alleged contact – I suspect the law has changed.

    So the girl was in the middle of a family split-up, losing her daddy, and this man in a suit acts kindly towards her. There’s mutual interest and she agrees to meet, they start to make out and she says no and he quits.

    I lost my virginity at the age of 14 to an aggressive female 14 year old and was later lead into a Southern Shotgun Wedding with a 16 y/o when I was 17, maybe a 100 miles from this incident.

    Sorry, I don’t share the outrage, even if true.

  46. jetty Says:

    And once again the GOP grovels before the media. I despise Republicans for this very reason.

  47. William Graves Says:

    Isn’t this parallel to what happened in Meg Whitman vs. Jerry Brown in the California Gubenatorial contest of 2010? It’s right out of the Dem playbook. It’s certainly curious that these charges always surface so close to an election that a court can’t look into them before the voting date? I wonder if we’re going to fine Gloria Allred or Wayanne Kruger involved in this one…smelling up the room? In these manufactured crises, charges are never filed and they disappear without a trace right after the election.

  48. Whitehall Says:

    Happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger when he first ran for governor of California, as a Republican.

    Late hits, scarcely creditable allegations, long past.

    I sense a trend!

  49. bflat879 Says:

    I’m struck, reading the comments, how few people believe the Washington Post. It appears that, all of those years being willing to sacrifice their credibility, have finally come home to roost.

    I remember George Allen and “maraca” which was a multi-day hit piece. I was amazed that such a thing could happen, but it did.

  50. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    A pox on the national Republican Party that pulled its support for Roy Moore based on unproven allegations aiding and abetting his Democratic opponent. Is this how you win Congress?

  51. sirpatrick Says:

    What exactly did Moore do with this 14 year old girl?
    Was it just a kiss?

  52. TommyT Says:

    Is rubbing the genitals of a 14 year old girl 38 years ago really a dis qualifier??? even if the allegations are true, I would still vote for him. Especially without any evidence that this was a pattern.

  53. Tuvea Says:

    Ken Mitchell is correct.

    Politics has always been a very dirty business. And these days, thanks perhaps to Social Media, it’s even dirtier.

    Also, these days, the huge amounts of public money that is available make it even MORE attractive to sling mud against those who won’t spend the cash the way you would like.

    Our local school district has a budget close to $100 millions. The Park District is over $15 millions. Those doesn’t even count the towns budget.

    The State is spending over $30 Billion a year. Some $3-4 Billion is has to borrow.

    IIRC the Feds spent over $3.9 TRILLION last year. And this year will have to print or borrow $666 Billion.

    Close to 4 TRILLION is a staggering sum.

    So … becoming a US Senator and having a say in what gets spent where is a situation where lots and lots of dirt is going to be tossed.

  54. Kirk Says:

    Good points well made. The pattern is too familiar now for it to be any kind of coincidence.
    Also, I think you meant “subscribe” rather than “ascribe” near the beginning of the post.

  55. Steve S Says:

    “Legal proceedings guard against these sorts of excesses because the rules of evidence require that accusations be backed up. ”

    Which is why I was struck by her charge: she didn’t say “Roy Moore did this”; she said “a man who introduced himself as Roy Moore did this.” Had she flat-out named Judge Moore, she would now be in the middle of a defamation suit and be required to justify her accusation.

    But she did not directly accuse him; even the WaPo piece very carefully avoided any direct statements. That’s why this thing stinks so heavily of being a piling-on hit piece.

  56. askeptic Says:

    An accusation of possible illegal-activity from long ago, “corroborated” by the accusation of legal-activity by three others (which seems to be a smoke-screen, included for no other reason than to give “weight” to the elephant that is trying to be stuffed into the room).
    No corroborating, or accounts of additional like activity, in all the intervening years, no “pattern & practice”.
    This is a test run by The Left of a new way to destroy their opposition by innuendo, since so many on The Left have been contemporaneously destroyed (at their own hand) by such activity.
    This confirms the utility of BS Detectors.

  57. Martin Knight Says:

    More questions no one is asking; how exactly did Washington Post (rather than Mobile Press-Register) reporters get wind of activities that supposedly happened 40 years ago and how were they able to track these women down when they made no police reports? In the case of Harvey Weinstein, we now know that stories about his abuses over the years were killed by editors. Any evidence of similar stories about Moore being similarly shot down in the last 40 years?

    So we need to ask; who are these reporters’ sources that led them to each of these women? How come they were silent for ~40 years before now when Moore was running for the State Supreme Court, Governor and during the Primaries in the past 3+ decades? Why the WaPo instead of an Alabama newspaper? How come the only people all these sources – all independent, all incommunicado with each other yet somehow all located within the same short time period – saw fit to speak to were Washington Post reporters just before an election with national implications?

    This looks, feels, sounds and smells like a coordinated hit job – the number of accusations suddenly popping up, with so much detail, after nearly 40 years actually makes me question the allegations even more. Especially the particularly convenient timing (when he can’t be replaced on the ballot) of it. And that’s without even taking note of the fact that modern technology allows one to very easily connect, coach and coordinate a widely disparate group of people to act in concert even though they’ve never seen each other’s faces. In fact, Corfman’s pre-emptive claim of being a Republican is also suspect, first because claiming to be a Republican is exactly what a coached person would say in a bid to head off suggestions that she’s motivated by partisanship, and second, Alabama conveniently doesn’t register voters by party so even that can’t be confirmed.

    Unlike the majority of people here, I do not believe McConnell has the imagination or competence to come up with a scheme like this. But Chuck Schumer and Tom Perez …

    Another set of questions; Corfman claims that Moore undressed himself down to his Y-fronts before proceeding to undress her. I understand Moore is a West Point graduate and a Vietnam veteran. This indicates that he may have acquired a number of scars, not to mention birthmarks and other distinguishing features on his body. Has anyone asked Corfman what she remembers about Moore outside of his clothes?

  58. Sarah Rolph Says:

    neo, do you now believe Anita Hill lied?

    (I do, based on the discussion in Clarence Thomas’s autobiography)

  59. Martin Knight Says:

    Is rubbing the genitals of a 14 year old girl 38 years ago really a dis qualifier???

    Yes it is.

  60. SDN Says:

    Neo, one additional fact that needs mentioning: At the time, AL law allowed 14 year olds to get married with parents consent. Doesn’t excuse any impropriety, but AL cultural background was young marriage was more acceptable.

  61. ccoffer Says:

    Coming from the Washington Post is enough for me to call it false. It isn’t a news outlet. It’s a political project.

  62. Lawrence Larson Says:

    Why doesn’t the GOP invoke the Torricelli Rule and just put the guy that McTurtle slimed on the ballot. The Alabama Supreme Court could do what the NJ Supreme Court did when they allowed Lautenberg to replace The Torch. Torch hadn’t done anything disqualifying…he was just behind in the polls. The GOP is not competent to play at the professional level of the Democrats.

  63. neo-neocon Says:

    Sarah Rolph:

    Do I now think that Anita Hill lied?

    Answer: I didn’t know then and I don’t know now. Nothing has changed except my political affiliation, not my principles about determining the truth or falsehood of an accusation.

    Unfortunately, that’s not the way most people operate. Most people are more likely to consider someone guilty till proven innocent (or maybe even guilty no matter what) if on the opposite side, and innocent until proven guilty (or maybe innocent no matter what) if on their side. I’m not saying that you operate that way, by the way. But I’m saying that most people who are politically active seem to evaluate the truth or falsehood of an accusation based on their politics. And I’m talking about both sides.

    I can’t offhand think of a single unproven accusation on which I’ve changed sides, if no proof has subsequently been offered. For example (although this is not exactly analogous), I’ve spent a fair amount of time on this blog arguing that Bill Clinton did not commit perjury (see this, including the links therein).

  64. neo-neocon Says:

    Kirk:

    Thanks, will fix!

  65. Dave Says:

    Martin knight is the epitome of the problem of democrat and social media politics nowadays, that a person is guilty and disqualifiable just because a troll online can come up with a clever one liner snl style twitter meme against him with misinformation clearly coming from a source of the opposing side pretending to be neutral. Just because a tweet is too short to fit in supporting evidence doesn’t mean we can simply bypass them to accept all accusations as truth

  66. Brian E Says:

    Everything has already been said, but in Alabama and most states, the age of consent is sixteen. With parental consent, parties can marry at age fourteen. However, this parental consent is not required if the minor has already been married. (Other statutory laws apply.) Common law marriage is recognized. This is current law.

    When I was a reporter in a rural Washington town, I would occasionally see marriage licenses for 14 year old girls and 40+ age men. That was the culture transplanted from the rural South.

    What makes this story somewhat suspect, is the way the story is built using one allegation of Moore not having sex, but fondling– short of “petting” a 14 year old. The other allegations of girls between 16 and 18 being asked on dates.

    What makes the single allegation serious is that the woman says the contact was unwanted and “I just wanted it over with– I just wanted out.” Moore was an assistant district attorney at the time. I find it suspect that an assistant district attorney wouldn’t know if this contact was unlawful.

  67. ken Says:

    Maybe Moore was trying to find and marry a virgin. He seems kind of old-fashioned about things like that.

  68. Dave Says:

    no Matter how many eye witnesses corroborated hands up don’t shoot claim doesn’t change the fact hands up don’t shoot was a false narrative in the face of science forensics. I thought democrats are the party of science, where is the scientific proof? Any finger print or semen, so her words and a story 40 year old is what the party of science based on to convict a man, it is less science than Islam.

  69. neo-neocon Says:

    Brian E:

    Any sexual contact with a 14-year-old by a grown man would be illegal whether she consented or not, because she has not reached the age of consent by definition.

    But I believe the story she tells is that she consented right up to the part where he touched her on her (clothed) breast and on her underwear, and guided her hand to his (clothed) penis. Then she said no, she wanted to go home. He took her home.

    Those are the allegations.

  70. R.C. Says:

    Hey, I don’t really pay attention to Roy Moore.

    As a result, I don’t get what it is that the “Establishment” finds so abhorrent about him as a potential Senator. What’re they bellyaching about?

    As a jurist, sure: I get it. So far as I can tell his career as a judge consisted of him ruling on cases the way his constituents wanted the case to come out, often in the teeth of existing law and precedent. That’s bad behavior for a judge, who is supposed to be ruling according to the law rather than rewriting it from the bench.

    Those inclinations are just fine for a Congresscritter, though, aren’t they? If Roy Moore is in the habit of legislating from the bench, take him off the bench and stick him in the legislature. Doesn’t that make sense?

    Some will protest, “It’s not about how bad a judge he was! Everyone agrees that’s not pertinent to whether he’d be a better legislator. It’s the kind of things he says, which show that he’d be a bad legislator!”

    In response to that, I answer, “Show me one thing that Roy Moore has said which is more reprehensible than the nonsense spouted regularly by the leftmost 33% of Democrat elected officials in D.C.” Barbara Lee anyone? Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Charlie Rangel? Maxine Waters? Various inanities spouted by Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer? Or Bernie Sanders himself? Or Mr. Moonbeam with the hot wife, I forget his name…oh yeah, Kucinich, right? Anybody remember Cynthia McKinney? Hank Johnson of the famous capsizing islands? How about Jesse Jackson?

    It looks to me like the Establishment is perfectly willing to nod sagaciously or smile indulgently at leftist morons spouting leftist inanities, but is selectively allergic to anyone who’s right of center doing so.

    But to my mind, Roy Moore’s inanities are no worse than those of the leftists listed above, or of hundreds more like them whose silliness never gets mentioned outside right-of-center blogs. If it doesn’t produce exclusion-from-office for them, why should it for him?

    And then, there are the allegations regarding the fourteen-year-old.

    If he did it, it’s immoral. It means that, at the time, he was sleaze on the level of Bill Clinton and Bill’s enabler, Hillary.

    But I don’t have any confidence he did it. Isn’t this the usual pattern, also seen in the Herman Cain and the Clarence Thomas incidents? Isn’t this just the standard playbook? Shouldn’t we have known this was coming?

    My gut estimates the odds he did this at about, oh, 15%. The odds that leftists looked at his jailbait appetites and decided to pick this particular narrative because it looked consistent with them? 80%. (The remaining 5% is for options I haven’t thought of.)

    So, sure, I’d still vote for him, because the alternative is leftward of him, and we desperately need less leftism in the country.

    That doesn’t mean I’d trust him to babysit my kids. Heck, I wouldn’t trust him to sit the right way on a toilet seat. But that goes for most politicians, from the President on down.

    American Politics is now the art of picking the scumbag you think will do the least damage to the body politic to go to war against all the other scumbags in a gigantic slime-filled cage match.

    Since the only alternative to Roy Moore is a Democrat, sure, I’d pick Moore. When the greater of two goods isn’t an option, the lesser of two evils will have to do.

  71. Bart Says:

    I have a feeling it is going to be seen as an uber dirty trick, and actually boost Moore’s margin higher. When your choice is between a weirdo who may have mutually fondled an underage girl, and a guy who has such a yen for power that he’ll stop at nothing to get it, I’d take the weirdo. At least I could vote him out later, if need be, and he’d do less damage to me personally.

    One thing I haven’t seen asked: if the story is true, and conceding that’s a mighty big if, did Moore actually know the girl’s age? Remember Animal House, when the girl admits to Pinto that she’s only 13? I’m pretty sure that was considered a laugh line back in the day.

  72. Ruchard McEnroe Says:

    Amazing how none of this came out during that whole Ten Commandments controversy.

  73. Dave Says:

    Girls making up fantasies about things they wished that had happened but didn’t all the time. As time goes by the fantasy becomes part of the memory she believes is truth. An affair with a mature handsome must be right up there. I am not defending him or the improper act or anything or blaming the victim of course I am biased I admit but someone has to say it but the possibility is there. How many times have we heard stories about girls making up stories about having a baby with a rock star like depicted in the song billie Jean? Not saying that’s the case but oh we have to take her words for it a month before the election, give me a break. Why does her words have more weight than him?

  74. geokstr Says:

    Dave Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 1:20 am
    Every day trump is showing conservatives that he truly is head and shoulders better candidate than every republican from the general election and has a much better sense of justice and right from wrong than everyone else, and the guts to fight for what he believe. Ted Cruz lacks the charisma and the if Buddha stands in my way I am going to cut him off mojo that trump has.

    BS. Neo has addressed this crap about nobody-but-Trump-could-have-beat-the-Red-Queen blather on numerous posts.

    2016 was a year when the Democrats should have lost big after nominating the most corrupt candidate in modern history, who was under FBI investigation for violating national security laws. Cruz would have crushed her in the debates, while Trump blustered and stammered his way to ties at best. Trump barely beat clinton – a swing of <70,000 votes in three purple states and it's Obama III. And he had zero coattails, losing 2 Senate seats.

    He won the primary because he ran the foulest, dirtiest campaign against Cruz and his family, while stealing his conservative platform and dropping it over his liberal Democrat persona. The media gave Trump a couple billion dollars in free PR because they knew he'd be easier for Hillary to beat, and the GOPe kept Kasich in the race until the end to close Cruz out, knowing he would be their real nightmare and Trump would be much easier to box in and manipulate. Both were right.

    You really think Trump has "charisma"? I think it's nothing more than bombastic, belligerent celebrity status, and a big clown act. Sure, he emphasized the right issues, but his lack of follow-through on the most important ones is telling. His appointment of a cojones-less Jeff Sessions to the position most important to undoing the Obama years is a disaster that birthed Mueller, but that's the price we're all paying for Sessions' early support for Trump and the betrayal his friend and ally. I guess Cruz wouldn't promise him the AG spot – with good reason.

    You and others in the #TrumpCult always point to Gorsuch, some nibbling around the edges on regulations and rescinding Obama's EOs and a return to tougher foreign policies, but imagine what a highly intelligent, competent, organized, genuine conservative Constitutional expert POTUS who knew what he was doing from Day 1 could have accomplished.

    And what fake news could the media have cooked up to equal the RussiaGate crap against Cruz? That he colluded with our mortal enemy…Canada? Or maybe they could find "evidence" that possibly somewhat sort of maybe, if you squinted just right, "proved" Rafael Cruz was the guy on the grassy knoll.

  75. Gospace Says:

    He took”No” for an answer. That’s the takeaway. No rape, no assault, he understands the meaning of”No”.

  76. Dave Says:

    It doesn’t matter, trump has shown he is more principled than any establishment gop, trump didn’t say garbage like “you only get due process in the court of law, you are disqualified as long as someone accuse you of any wrongdoing”.

  77. neo-neocon Says:

    Gospace:

    That’s irrelevant where an underage person is concerned. What he had already done was actionable, had it been reported at the time.

    It even apparently is actionable now [emphasis mine]:

    Although the civil SOL [statute of limitations] is very short, Alabama gives prosecutors a lot of time to file violent or childhood sexual abuse [criminal] charges. The criminal statutes of limitations vary depending on the severity of the offense. The criminal statutes of limitations include:

    No statute of limitations: rape, violent sexual abuse, sexual abuse with the threat of violence, and any sexual abuse of a victim under the age of 16,
    Other felony sexual abuse: three years, and
    Misdemeanor abuse: one year.

  78. Dave Says:

    Funny that we have to believe he is a monster who would rape a child and we also have to believe he has the self restraint to hold the horses, respect the wishes of the lady and take no for an answer, talk about cognitive dissonance. We also supposed to believe this has nothing to do with politics, but everything about bringing a predator to justice, but the story comes out right before an election. If Moore was such a dangerous man Washington Post should print the story as soon as possible to keep him off street instead of letting him roam free for so long doing more harm to more innocent children. No Washington Post can’t do that, they have to maximise the impact to time it 1 month before the election, if more children got hurt due to then delaying the story so be it..

  79. Dave Says:

    Safety of the the children can’t get in our way to take down a republican and trump ally.

  80. Ann Says:

    All of you having the coming-out-just-before-an-election vapors apparently never heard of this ever happening before in politics. Just off hand, anyone here remember what happened to Gary Hart in 1987? He was on his way to winning the Democratic nomination for president when the MSM took him down over his dalliance with Donna Rice.

  81. neo-neocon Says:

    Ann:

    It’s not at all clear there was a dalliance with Rice. See this.

  82. neo-neocon Says:

    Dave:

    None of Moore’s accusers, including the 14-year-old, allege that he raped them.

  83. William Graves Says:

    OK, let’s talk about a couple of discussed points.

    1. I don’t believe Anita Hill or Clarence Thomas. Anita testified that one incident of Clarence coming on to her and ‘talking dirty’ was the worst thing that had ever happened to her in her entire life, and left her a wreck. At the time of the testimony, she was a law school graduate and practicing attorney. Oh, please. Clarence, on the other hand, testified that he’d never seen a Playboy and didn’t even know what it was. I had seen a Playboy when I was 8 years old? What? So they both lied?

    2. The laws that Moore is alleged to have violated are the current ones, not ones that existed 40 or 50 years ago. Having served on two child molestation juries, I can tell you that the definition of sexual assault is not now the same as it was when my mother was dating. You can’t try someone on an ex-post-facto basis, which is why these things never will go to trial. No jury is ever going to believe that this lady fell asleep for 45 years, then suddenly woke up and decided her life was ruined. She’s probably a Grandma twice over for heaven sake.

  84. Cap'n Rusty Says:

    I’m glad I was a youth and teenager in the 50’s and 60’s. My buddies and I dated girls because we were attracted to them, and hoped that they might be attracted to us. Boys asked girls “out,” taking the chance on being rejected. If they agreed, we didn’t “put moves on them” on a first date. Or second. Or third. But after a while, if we really liked them, and we thought they might really like us, we would summon up our courage, and attempt to kiss them. That was understood to be on the man’s initiative, not the woman’s. And it elevated the status of a mere kiss to such a high plane that it was a marvelous thing in and of itself. We didn’t seek anything more until much later. “If you wanna know if he loves you so, it’s in his kiss. That’s what it is. Oh yeah!”

    Now, of course, an unrequested first kiss is criminal.

    Even though Ace’s language is sometimes a bit vulgar, he makes keen observations. He made this point yesterday: “Look, men are sexual initiators.” I think Mother Nature would agree with that. It’s how she designed males and females.

  85. William Graves Says:

    Years ago I was visiting a mall in California. Two girls, about age 14 at a guess, approached me in public. “Would you do us a favor?” “Depends on what it is.” “Would you tell that fellow that you’re our father and that it’s OK to get our ears pierced?” “Actually, no…uh…make that hell no…you should know better.”

    They got the guess that I was old enough right, but not the one where I had a daughter of my own, nor the guess about how I would react.

    The 14 year old could have lied about her age, then bragged to here friends that she got some older guy to hit on her. Mucho face and status in that at age 14. If this went to trial, she wouldn’t like the cross-examination, which is why she won’t prefer charges and it won’t go to trial.

  86. neo-neocon Says:

    William Graves:

    Actually, I read in some official legal website (don’t remember where right now and don’t have time to look it up) that what matters is the laws at the time of the offense, which was 1979 (not 40 or 50 years ago; actually, 38).

    But I agree that the evidence as given in the article wouldn’t be enough to convict. I’m not sure what would come out in a trial, however. But I doubt it’s ever going to get that far.

  87. Ann Says:

    I don’t think Corfman “fell asleep for 45 years” and just now remembered what happened. The Wash. Post article left me with the clear impression that it was burned into her memory, which would certainly have been true for me if what she described had happened to me at that age. She also carried around the idea from the beginning that it had been her fault, not his:

    She says that at some point during or soon after her meetings with Moore, she told two friends in vague terms that she was seeing an older man.

    Betsy Davis, who remains friendly with Corfman and now lives in Los Angeles, says she clearly remembers Corfman talking about seeing an older man named Roy Moore when they were teenagers. She says Corfman described an encounter in which the older man wore nothing but tight white underwear. She says she was firm with Corfman that seeing someone as old as Moore was out of bounds.

    “I remember talking to her and telling her it’s not a good idea,” Davis says. “Because we were so young.”

    A second friend, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing her job, has a similar memory of a teenage Corfman telling her about seeing an older man.

    After talking to her friends, Corfman says, she began to feel that she had done something wrong and kept it a secret for years.

    “I felt responsible,” she says. “I felt like I had done something bad. And it kind of set the course for me doing other things that were bad.”

  88. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Clarence, on the other hand, testified that he’d never seen a Playboy and didn’t even know what it was. I had seen a Playboy when I was 8 years old? What? So they both lied?

    Is that supposed to be the reason why Clarence or the Amish are guilty?

  89. Ymar Sakar Says:

    You and others in the #TrumpCult always point to Gorsuch, some nibbling around the edges on regulations and rescinding Obama’s EOs and a return to tougher foreign policies, but imagine what a highly intelligent, competent, organized, genuine conservative Constitutional expert POTUS who knew what he was doing from Day 1 could have accomplished.

    The fundamental proof is not in potential performance at DC. Both Cruz and Trum would be boxed in and backstabbed, for different reasons.

    Cruz is from the Tea Party and the Deep State used the IRS to get rid of the Tea Party. Trum, however, has trusted Demoncrats most of his life, since he was a Democrat before the White House power called. Trum is backed by the Alt Right, which is composed of an anti Left alliance between betrayed Republicans (Tea Party), Democrats betrayed by socialism/SJW/anti male/HRC, and the sub culture communities like PUA/GamerGate/AlphaGame/WhiteNationalism/RedPill.

    That he colluded with our mortal enemy…Canada? Or maybe they could find “evidence” that possibly somewhat sort of maybe, if you squinted just right, “proved” Rafael Cruz was the guy on the grassy knoll.

    Trum is a big investigator of the JFK assassination theories, aka conspiracy theorist. That’s why he helped get the gov to open up more JFK files, although that’s not really going to help. Many Democrats had certain reasons to believe JFK was done in by a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy or by the Commies.

    There’s more traitors amongst Trum’s Clinton friends and Trum’s GoldManSachs admin, than there is in Cruz’s family, but Americans pay attention to only what the news tells them to pay attention to.

  90. Ymar Sakar Says:

    The Left tends to hire or hold blackmail material on certain Republicans. Thus it would be unlikely for them to let this leverage go by exposing it themselves.

    They often will use blackmail on figures like General Petraeus. Leftists have long been using the FBI to spy on Republicans in the White House and the Congress critters.

    The fact that the NSA now expands it to the rest of the nation… well, welcome to the party, citizens.

  91. Dave Says:

    Washington Post gives you the impression that the incident burned into her mind because that is what journalists want you to believe. That is the trade of journalism nowadays, writing fictional dramatic stories based on some facts to barely pass it as non fiction with the goal to elicit emotional response from readers to praser persuade to believe in a certain direction. If the writer want you to not believe her story they can easily manipulate you with carefully chosen words to discredit her subtly even every fact mentioned in the article is exactly the same. This is why I hate journalism, it is story telling according to the writers ideologies, not news, news such be a list of proven facts without any biased and let the readers create their own interpretations instead of having biased journalists interpreting for us.

  92. Dave Says:

    You know why America is so divided right now, it’s because we lack an unbiased in the middle authority figure that both sides trust and admire to act as an arbitrator to judge which side is right and which side is wrong on every issue.

  93. AesopFan Says:

    QUESTION
    Martin Knight Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 10:35 am
    More questions no one is asking; how exactly did Washington Post (rather than Mobile Press-Register) reporters get wind of activities that supposedly happened 40 years ago and how were they able to track these women down when they made no police reports? In the case of Harvey Weinstein, we now know that stories about his abuses over the years were killed by editors. Any evidence of similar stories about Moore being similarly shot down in the last 40 years?

    So we need to ask; who are these reporters’ sources that led them to each of these women? How come they were silent for ~40 years before now when Moore was running for the State Supreme Court, Governor and during the Primaries in the past 3+ decades? Why the WaPo instead of an Alabama newspaper? How come the only people all these sources – all independent, all incommunicado with each other yet somehow all located within the same short time period – saw fit to speak to were Washington Post reporters just before an election with national implications?

    ANSWER
    Ymar Sakar Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 3:20 pm
    The Left tends to hire or hold blackmail material on certain Republicans. Thus it would be unlikely for them to let this leverage go by exposing it themselves.

    EVIDENCE OF STRATEGIC PUBLICATION
    Plenty of it, the most recent being the Billy Bush tape*, which was held in limbo for 11 years until it could be usefully disinterred.

    A MORE LOGICAL TIME BUT NOT ENOUGH NEED?
    Ruchard McEnroe Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 11:49 am
    Amazing how none of this came out during that whole Ten Commandments controversy.

    (Lots of good points raised in the discussion. I have no personal brief pro or con Moore; too many stories from WaPo and others have been “corrected” later — sometimes much later — and I don’t wish to play CSI:Washington over it.)

    *A recent interview with Bush was very interesting, and I have excerpted it below. It’s worth reading in is entirety.

  94. AesopFan Says:

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/billy-bush-breaks-his-silence-trump-access-hollywood-tape-nbc-a-comeback-plan-1005744

    He still has no idea who leaked the tape….While he long has been aware of its existence and says “plenty of people” at NBC knew about it, too, he claims he has seen it only three times. … “I think Billy was angry, notwithstanding his own devils to reckon with. You build an identity and reputation over 15 years, and you lose it over 15 hours. And you don’t get to be part of it. You don’t get to say, ‘Hey, wait a minute.'” …I’ve come out of this with a deeper understanding of how women can connect to the feeling of having to fight extra hard for an even playing field. The ground isn’t even. Maybe it’s improving, but still it isn’t even. When a woman watches that tape — and this is what really hit me — they may be asking themselves, “Is that what happens when I walk out of a room? When I walk out of a meeting, is that what they’re saying about me? Are they sizing me up?” I can’t live with that.

    With Donald, there wasn’t much interaction. He sort of talks and performs, and everybody reacts. And the topics were usually golf, gossip or women. And boy, do I wish this was a golf day. But I always had a nervous energy through these situations because he also decided a lot of times from day to day, moment to moment, who he liked, who was in and who was out, and my job was to remain in. I needed to be in, or maybe I’d be out. So that was the Trump environment. Looking back on what was said on that bus, I wish I had changed the topic. I wish I had said: “Does anyone want water?” or “It looks like it’s gonna rain.” He liked TV and competition. I could’ve said, “Can you believe the ratings on whatever?” I didn’t have the strength of character to do it.

    I spent time with Tony Robbins. I attended his seminar. There was a powerful moment with Tony in front of 9,000 people at the Galen Center [in L.A.]. He walked to the end of the stage, and he pointed at me in the middle of his thing, and he said, “One moment in your life does not define who you are.” And the camera hit me, and these people started applauding — it was a little overwhelming but really empowering.

  95. AesopFan Says:

    This was supposed to be part of my first post, because it answers the “why now?” question (assuming any of the allegations are true, or even sort of true).

    Tuvea Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 9:20 am
    Ken Mitchell is correct.

    Politics has always been a very dirty business. And these days, thanks perhaps to Social Media, it’s even dirtier.

    Also, these days, the huge amounts of public money that is available make it even MORE attractive to sling mud against those who won’t spend the cash the way you would like….
    So … becoming a US Senator and having a say in what gets spent where is a situation where lots and lots of dirt is going to be tossed.

    * * *
    Moore, despite his notoriety, was Small Potatoes up to now.

  96. The Other Chuck Says:

    Look at this way. It’s payback for all the blacks that were lynched on the feeble word of any girl with a sex fantasy during the good old days of Southern Jim Crow and the Klan, when judges like Roy Moore presided over all white juries.

    Here’s an excerpt from a review of “Southern Horror: Women And The Politics of Rape And Lynching” by historian Crystal M. Feimster:

    Under the unfortunate heading “Ladies Who Lynch,” Feimster tells us that white women allegedly raped by black men were often allowed to choose their attackers’ punishments and frequently helped mutilate, burn, and shoot the newly hung (sic) bodies. Instead of being called unwomanly for their public role in the bloodshed, female lynchers were praised as exemplary protectors of the race. As late as 1934, white women and children still attended lynchings as enthralled spectators.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2010/01/15/southern_horrors_women_and_the_politics_of_rape_and_lynching_by_crystal_feimster.html

    Here’s a graphic from The New Yorker that illustrates it:

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2702/4202774536_a21f98ccfe_o.jpg

    It’s been said that this country has become hopelessly divided, culturally and politically. BS! The one thing that has united us for 400 years is a lynch mob mentality. From Salem on, we are destined to believe, not in The Sacred Word, but any word from the sacred mouth of a young girl or older woman wanting attention.

  97. AesopFan Says:

    I’m watching for anything more to come of these two comments.
    It’s so hard not to go full CSI.

    Da Bear Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 6:50 am
    FORTY YEARS AGO ..in a rural Chirstian state like Alabama, everyone knew everybody’s “dirty” business. If any of this were true, it would have come out then or in subsequent elections.

    Nothing, nada, zip had ever been openly said about this Moore character. IN FORTY YEARS.

    Bob Bach Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 6:52 am
    I understand people’s reservations given the late disclosure of these events. The post Weinstein era, I think, has led many women victims to be more willing to come forward. That doesn’t mean all are truthful, but it is still not easy for most to to come forward. In light of this, the following ad from Strange campaign should give all pause on Moore.
    Watch GOP Sen. Luther Strange accuse Roy Moore of being soft on pedophiles back in September – The Week
    https://apple.news/AWvWHYfDjRyGfuh9R_I8DUg

    * *
    Was anything ever said privately about Moore’s conduct with women, 38 years ago or any time up to now? Is he Weinsteinian in the sense that everyone knew, but he had so much power no one would talk?

    Did anyone, including Strange, complain about these decisions at the time, or are they suspect only now?

    Was Strange setting the stage for the girls’ accusations himself, but for some reason not able to get them published before the primary?

  98. AesopFan Says:

    Whitehall Says:
    November 11th, 2017 at 7:41 am
    Happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger when he first ran for governor of California, as a Republican.

    Late hits, scarcely creditable allegations, long past.

    I sense a trend!
    **
    Back in the dark ages (2007) the Times (IIRC) went all eleventy on some allegations of hanky-panky between McCain and a woman-not-his-wife.
    Both denied, and there was no traction for the story, so it died.
    But, they tried.

    Hermann Cain, apparently, was guilty as charged – and he withdrew from the primary race.

    Hart & Rice have already been taken care of by Neo above.

    NOT voting pro or con on Moore, just saying that the trend is long-playing.

  99. DEEBEE Says:

    As soon as lib erase all the “accomplishments” of the Chappaquiddick murder, we can lynch Moore

  100. Sarah Rolph Says:

    neo, I certainly didn’t mean to imply you would have changed your mind about Anita Hill simply because your political views changed.

  101. Classical Values » “a crime against nature, an inherent evil, and an act so heinous that it defies one’s ability to describe it” Says:

    […] yet, if I look at his latest problem, I am faced with a moral and intellectual […]

  102. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Hermann Cain, apparently, was guilty as charged – and he withdrew from the primary race.

    No, Cain’s employer caved. Cain was still contesting in and out of cult, and they settled with him as a result.

  103. Ymar Sakar Says:

    but any word from the sacred mouth of a young girl or older woman wanting attention.

    It was the patriarchs and Southern Baptists that gave this power to them. Something people don’t want to talk about.

  104. Ymar Sakar Says:

    EVIDENCE OF STRATEGIC PUBLICATION
    Plenty of it, the most recent being the Billy Bush tape*, which was held in limbo for 11 years until it could be usefully disinterred.

    Trum was not a Republican 11 years ago and may have held it back as a personal favor to him (or his friends in the Ruling Class like the Clintons or Democrats he funded in Congress). They are like the NSA. They collect data, as the Left’s intel and propaganda arm, and will use it to assassinate a person’s profile or rehabilitate. Same thing NKVD did in Russia.

    Politics has always been a very dirty business. And these days, thanks perhaps to Social Media, it’s even dirtier.

    In DC, if you don’t have dirt on your allies and enemies, you’re an amateur and a green newbie. DC hasn’t become more corrupt, just more transparent and leaky. You see all the rats and cockroaches now. There’s fewer corners to hide the prostitutes and DEAD BODIES.

    So we need to ask; who are these reporters’ sources that led them to each of these women? How come they were silent for ~40 years before now when Moore was running for the State Supreme Court, Governor and during the Primaries in the past 3+ decades? Why the WaPo instead of an Alabama newspaper? How come the only people all these sources – all independent, all incommunicado with each other yet somehow all located within the same short time period – saw fit to speak to were Washington Post reporters just before an election with national implications?

    That’s why they should have instigated JournoList instead of asking the public rhetorical retard questions that are in the bottom 25% of human capability.

    Democrats use dirt to get leverage or get rid of Republicans. Here, they lost leverage and still didn’t get rid of M. So did somebody panick and do something they weren’t ordered by their Hierarchy? Did Trum’s twitter account make them go cat crazy? Shrugs whatever.

  105. Ymar Sakar Says:

    Dave Says:
    November 10th, 2017 at 9:52 pm
    I don’t condone sexual assaults, but I condone due process and the principles of innocent until proven guilty.

    A contradiction when Dave keeps talking about eye for an eye, fire against fire, poison against poison.

    What does he think evil is, except making people use evil to win against evil?

    Fire is innocent until proven guilty? Then by what method did you decide to use fire against fire. It certainly wasn’t due process.

  106. Irv Says:

    I do not accept obviously politically motivated charges like these as true without real proof. This election is too important to be decided by a woman with that background 38 years after an alleged incident.
    I also believe that the piling-on of another woman a week later is the standard way to reinforce charges that do not support themselves.
    I also believe that most things that are too good to be true (for the opposition) are not.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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