November 29th, 2017

Matt Lauer: variety, spice of life

Earlier today I reacted to the initial news of Matt Lauer’s firing and NBC’s first explanations for letting him go. There wasn’t that much specific information given out. But there was this:

..there’s another hint of what might be going on here—a rumor that the NY Times may have been researching stories on Lauer. So perhaps NBC wanted to get ahead of the Times.

Well, the Times may have been working on it, too, but it was Variety that seems to have gotten there first.

And on reading that article, I have to say it’s no wonder NBC acted with such haste. The Variety story contains allegations that are serious rather than mild, and from multiple accusers. If we can categorize these types of allegations into groups, I’d say this story is much closer to the Weinstein variety than the Franken bunch, although it lies somewhere in that vast territory in-between.

Once again, it’s necessary to say that we don’t know what’s true and what’s false in these allegations. But the number and quality of the accusations, as well as the fact that these women are said to have told other people at the time of the alleged offenses, indicates a good possibility of a fire in all the smoke.

What’s more, the story in Variety mentions that Lauer “was known for making lewd comments verbally or over text messages.” Text messages can be retrieved even if erased, at least as far as I know. So if these texts existed and especially if they still exist, that would constitute strong evidence. The only defense I can imagine for such messages would be that Lauer could say that he and the woman were in a mutual consensual sexual relationship at the time. But I would guess that such a thing could be proven or disproven by other evidence.

There’s also this:

As the co-host of NBC’s “Today,” Matt Lauer once gave a colleague a sex toy as a present. It included an explicit note about how he wanted to use it on her, which left her mortified.

If she saved the note, and it’s in his handwriting, that would constitute evidence as well—although it would also matter whether they were having a consensual sexual relationship. But again, these are things that could be proven or disproven.

My mind is open to hearing any defense and/or rebuttal, but at the moment I find these charges more likely to be true than untrue, and relatively serious in nature. And they’re not just serious for Matt Lauer. They’re potentially serious for NBC and even serious for the women who worked there and remained silent in the face of what may have been widespread knowledge of what was going on.

There’s one aspect of the story that I find especially curious. According to Variety:

Lauer, who was paranoid about being followed by tabloid reporters, grew more emboldened at 30 Rockefeller Center as his profile rose following Katie Couric’s departure from “Today” in 2006. His office was in a secluded space, and he had a button under his desk that allowed him to lock his door from the inside without getting up. This afforded him the assurance of privacy. It allowed him to welcome female employees and initiate inappropriate contact while knowing nobody could walk in on him, according to two women who were sexually harassed by Lauer.

Why do I focus on that detail? Because it’s unusual: to the best of my knowledge, it’s highly uncommon to install a button that lets a person lock an office door from his or her desk (if I’m wrong, and this is standard operating procedure, please let me know). It’s also verifiable: was there such a lock and such a button in Lauer’s office? When was it installed? Who approved its intallation? Was it clandestinely put in there, or did other people know about it? Did he have the cooperation and approval of the higher-ups? Did he give any reason to them to justify it?

And why would that ensure privacy, exactly? Oh, I understand it would mean that no one could ever walk in on Lauer during the hanky-panky. But wouldn’t it also have meant that people would discover a mysteriously locked door on occasion? Would that not have aroused some sort of suspicion?

Unless, of course, it was common knowledge that this sort of thing was going on with great regularity, and it was winked at. If that was in fact the case (as I suspect it may have been), then the problem was widespread and systemic. And even if it wasn’t common knowledge, there may have still been a systemic problem: the silence (and therefore complicity) of the women who knew.

Or did the vast majority of the people who knew think it was all just mutually consensual sex, and therefore nothing to be all that concerned about? The situation seems to parallel the Weinstein/Hollywood one in terms of the culture of the institution and the norming of the practice within it.

All of which would make this sort of interview—Lauer grilling Bill O’Reilly about the charges of sexual harassment against the latter—especially cringeworthy. One might have thought that, on learning of the allegations against O’Reilly, Lauer would have felt a cold chill over the prospect of whether he might be next in line. Or did he feel immune? O’Reilly had been the big moneymaker at Fox. Lauer was a big star in NBC’s firmament:

Several women told Variety they complained to executives at the network about Lauer’s behavior, which fell on deaf ears given the lucrative advertising surrounding “Today.” NBC declined to comment. For most of Lauer’s tenure at “Today,” the morning news show was No. 1 in the ratings, and executives were eager to keep him happy…

Lauer’s conduct was not a secret among other employees at “Today,” numerous sources say. At least one of the anchors would gossip about stories she had heard, spreading them among the staff. “Management sucks there,” says a former reporter, who asked not to be identified, speaking about executives who previously worked at the show. “They protected the s— out of Matt Lauer.”

Some producers told Variety they were conflicted about what to do around Lauer. They worried that their careers would be sidelined if they didn’t return his advances…

According to producers, Lauer — who had considerable editorial clout over which stories would ultimately air on “Today” — would frequently dismiss stories about cheating husbands. However, in the wake of Roger Ailes and Harvey Weinstein, Lauer had to keep up with a national conversation about sexual harassment. It often made for awkward moments on TV for staff members who knew about Lauer’s private interactions.

That’s what I mean by “systemic.”

Variety also mentions, almost in passing, that Lauer had “a lot of consensual relationships.” Minimizing that aspect of things is leaving out at least half the story, and it’s an important half. We haven’t heard a thing about the many women who said “yes” and had a sexual relationship with Lauer either because they genuinely liked him or because it would further their careers. Whether they are the silent majority or the silent minority we don’t know, but apparently there were a great many such women.

Consensual workplace sex is not harassment, if it’s truly consensual. And it’s probably fairly common, not just in Hollywood or at NBC. But for someone like Lauer, who grew ever more powerful at NBC, it probably set up a perception in his own mind that he’s some sort of irresistible charmer, a gift to any woman he might approach. Unceremoniously dropping trou—which one woman has alleged Lauer did—could be self-rationalized by an increasingly narcissistic Lauer, who may have felt that of course it was one of her deepest desires to get a look at his attributes.

Just as much of Hollywood covered up its knowledge of Weinstein’s (and others’) predations while standing on a holier-than-thou pedestal, so did NBC. Both institutions have been kicked off those lofty perches, and I’m not at all sure they’ll ever be able to claw their way back up there again.

38 Responses to “Matt Lauer: variety, spice of life”

  1. Griffin Says:

    Saw some former exec at NBC say that it’s not uncommon for the higher ups there to have that door lock feature. I’ve got to think that the entire management at NBC is going down in this.

  2. Dave Says:

    Will there be a day that butch lesbians like Whoopi Goldberg, ellen degeneres, rosie o donnell or rachel Maddow be accused of sexual assaults as well? Butches usually are even more aggressive than men in the pursue of a sexual partner because being a women themselves they can get away with more aggressive and forward approaches. They should be treated as men because they are attracted to women. If straight men are forbidden from touching women inappropriately or telling dirty jokes then lesbians should be forbidden from those activities as well.

  3. Dave Says:

    Bet you his room was equipped with top class sound proofing treatment as well.

  4. Yancey Ward Says:

    I would bet that sourcing the NYTimes was NBC’s first attempt to get out in front, but Variety‘s story was simply too big and extensive for NYTimes to provide cover, so NBC bit the bullet, fired Lauer, and then lied about what they knew about and when they knew about it.

  5. John Guilfoyle Says:

    Let the lawsuits begin!

  6. blert Says:

    With every hour that passes… it’s obvious that Lauer was a rake… and that NBC elites knew it.

    Like Kevin Spacey, Matt Lauer was given royal privilege.

    The Lauer story also appears to tie back into Weinstein, too.

    https://nypost.com/2017/11/29/matt-lauers-fall-from-grace-raises-a-lot-of-questions-about-nbc/

    Matt was so naughty that his wife wanted out of their marriage… a decision later changed.

  7. groundhog Says:

    Think his wife read all that for the first time?

    He knew the night before the rest of the US learned. Must of have been a very long cold, sleepless night.

  8. blert Says:

    Now NBC corporate wants to hide how much they knew all these years.

    For Bill O’Reilly the events must be delicious.

    Lauer makes Bill look the saint.

  9. miklos000rosza Says:

    I’ve reviewed my own past looking for memories of anything, by anyone, which could be classified as sexual harassment or “inappropriate” behavior. What immediately leapt to mind were the actions of certain doctors. I remember well how each new crop of residents would be appraised by the more attractive young nurses, many of whom were definitely seeking a husband guaranteed a high income right away.

    Even some very unhandsome, unwitty fellows found themselves in some demand, and took advantage of this as a natural thing. Two doctors I came to know rather well screwed every young female in the hospital they chose, from phlebotomists and x-ray techs and secretaries to the available RNs.

    Hands on buttocks? Unsolicited shoulder massage? All the time. All the time. I don’t think anyone was overly troubled by such behavior. As far as I could tell. But what did I know? It wasn’t my business. I didn’t care.

  10. Tesh Says:

    I, for one, hope they don’t claw their way back into any sort of respectability and power. Break them and make an example of their actions.

  11. Lurch Says:

    It saddens me that women have had to tolerate these predations in order to have a career and make a living. I imagine if my daughter had been a victim of this animal. I’d find a way to serve the creep a knuckle sandwich and kick his balls into next Tuesday. What a disgrace. What a piss poor example of manhood. Total loser.

  12. The Other Chuck Says:

    There is something interesting in this that isn’t being mentioned. During all the years women had to put up with the glass ceiling, low pay, and harassment in the work place they continued to assume it was their place in life. With the very vocal exceptions of women libbers most seemed content or at least resigned to the situation. Was there anything that really prevented them from making complaints, filing lawsuits, or just walking away?

    Perhaps all this current foofaraw is a day late and a dollar short. Now they come forward, some 40 years after the fact, and with accounts of harassment spanning years. The question no one asks is why they were willing to sell their dignity and integrity like a whore.

  13. charles Says:

    While many of these allegations are creepy; that door that can be locked from a button at his desk is just plain down-right disturbing!

    I could see someone who deals with money or other expensive items (such as a bank teller or a jewelry store clerk) who needs to remotely lock a door to prevent a theft or something of that nature. But, an office door? I’ve never heard of such a thing either Neo.

    Sadly, I could see someone installing it -and knowing full well what Lauer’s intentions were – but, keeping his mouth shut because someone in Lauer’s position could very well get them fired and make it impossible for him to find work ever again.

  14. Lurch Says:

    The Other Chuck: when it comes to understanding why women have tolerated so much for so long, we’re both at a disadvantage. My male brain tells me it probably has to do with how our species evolved. How men and women had to interact to ensure our individual survival in the natural world.

  15. Tom Says:

    It’s almost as if these men dressed in sheep’s clothing so they could wander freely among the herd. Since they looked like sheep, and only occasionally ate other sheep, their sins were forgiven. Also, you reap what you sow. Good riddance, bury the f$ckers!

  16. MHollywood Says:

    Under-desk door closure buttons: these are very common in top executive offices. The executive’s private secretary sits right outside his door. She usually has ears like a hawk (or she wouldn’t have landed her job), and when a conversation inside is important and maybe confidential (as many are) or the group large, the presider behind the big (often very open, shiny, and clear) executive desk would push button. Sure, the buttons were a status symbol, but they were very functional–even graceful. When a meeting commences, you don’t want to have to call out to your ever-present personal secretary to close the door, and you didn’t ask your guest to close it either. And you, the President or Vice President, are surely not going to get up and go close it. The buttons worked and were used by many, daily, for business.

  17. CV Says:

    Like Griffin, I also read (Daily Mail maybe?) that the desk button that locks the door is a common security feature (against stalkers etc) for high profile people in the biz. But it certainly does sound creepy.

    The Lauer revelations make the earlier stories about NBC squashing Ronan Farrow’s expose on Weinstein, forcing him to take the story to the New Yorker, even more interesting. Glass houses indeed.

    I admit that I was shocked by the Lauer story. I have been watching Today for years (at home when my kids were small, and these days as background noise for news, weather and traffic as I am getting ready for the morning commute). He had me fooled. I had read awhile back that he and his wife are basically leading separate lives, and I doubt she was surprised by the news, but their kids are young teenagers. Must be devastating for them.

  18. Dave Says:

    Does this mass ousting of liberal creeps supposed to make Roy Moore look bad and liberals’ way to force conservatives voters to abandon him? By Comparison Roy Moore looks more and more innocent to me, no history of any sexual misbehavior complaints in the workplace with dozens of character witnesses with only one accuser of any serious wrongdoing that took place 40 years ago, and the accuser herself is a proven liar with a history of bad behaviors and lying about being assaulted by other men (lets not waste time discussing the allred represented hoax accuser with her forged yb)

  19. DNW Says:

    “Perhaps all this current foofaraw is a day late and a dollar short. Now they come forward, some 40 years after the fact, and with accounts of harassment spanning years. The question no one asks is why they were willing to sell their dignity and integrity like a whore.”

    While acknowledging your question – which others have asked – without affirming your particularly harsh phrasing, the issue goes back, in my considered opinion, and once again, to the concept of honor. And honor is of course a concept which has been dead in much of the United States and in virtually all of Yankeeland since the 1840’s or so.

    If you can get what you want without it, why bother? …

    First I would grant that there are obviously very reasonable ethical and moral motives for not allowing a concept easily abused by psychopaths, to reign socially supreme. Taken, or allowed to go to an extreme you could wind up with a reign of terror, wherein small and mild men might just as well kill themselves, as they will eventually be goaded by a bully into a fight they cannot win.

    And there are certain non-ethical facts that influence this too, such as the fact that in more anonymous and mobile social settings, wherein economic losses and loss of social standing can easily be made up, honor and the social reflection of one’s personal integrity, may not be seen as so important.

    Third of course, is that fact that most of the eventual foreign emigrants in the North never had any rights or honor or appreciable social standing or respect in their own countries to begin with. They lived, bred, and died without it ever touching their lives. They never had nor were assumed to have in their places of origin an unquestioned right to bodily integrity and an absolute right to be unmolested in their persons.

    So couple these facts with the progressive notions of the value of sexual liberation and uninhibited release, and of the importance of collective identification above personal integrity, and it should come as no surprise whatever that modern liberals practice behaviors that are supposedly at variance with their proclaimed ideals and natures.

    It really is not. They are just a bunch of proudly soulless Bonobos at heart; which is why they have so celebrated and fetishized these pigmy chimps.

  20. TommyJay Says:

    The claimed purpose of the button under the desk was to ensure privacy. But if consensual privacy was desired, why not simply walk over to an ordinary door lock and lock it.

    It sounds to me more like an attempt at involuntary imprisonment, unless there was always a manual way to unlock it. Details are so important.

    The striking element of the story to me, though not the worst, was the video clip of Katie Couric being asked the question “What do you like the least about Matt Lauer?” She replies “He’s always pinching my ass.” (Or words to that effect.) It is the look on her face that says a 1,000 words.

  21. ConceptJunkie Says:

    Honestly, I don’t see the lock, all by itself, being a suspicious thing. I could see a hard-working bigwig wanting the convenience of being able to prevent people from walking in when, say a very important person calls. Nevertheless, it’s something that could easily be put to less innocent uses.

    The thing that strikes me however in this flurry of accusations and firings, that this clearly points to a culture that tolerated this kind of behavior. If a person like Lauer was causing a lot of complaints from women, there must then have been people who were aware of these complaints, and who did nothing, or nothing effective.

    Lauer’s being thrown under the bus (and for well-deserved reasons), but his enablers remain anonymous, and presumably, still in their positions.

    I’d rather be the guy that women like, rather than fear or hate. I remember a coworker, a long time ago, buying me flowers because I had spent so much time helping her with her computer. It wasn’t any kind of romantic advance, since she was married. It was just a sweet gift, and she’d commented that people always thinking of buying flowers for a woman, but why not buying flowers for a man? I was honored. I’m not trying to brag or anything, but that’s the kind of environment I would always want to create, and would want to work in.

    It saddens and sickens me that so many people would rather objectify and demean others for their own sick pleasure, and let’s face it, for all the outrage, this really is something that’s accepted by lots and lots of people, especially those in power.

    This is not just a problem with the people in question, although they are main reason, but it is also a problem with a society that is increasingly coarse and immoral, where such things are simply no longer a surprise, but expected, even if they are disapproved of.

  22. RohanV Says:

    Add me to the list of people who think the remote door lock is not obviously wrong. There is a time where it’s not convenient to get up and lock the door: when you’re on the phone. Especially if it’s one with a cord.

    For someone who makes and takes a lot of phone calls, I can see a remote door lock being very convenient. For example, when a sensitive call comes in. You don’t need to interrupt your workflow at all. Stay at your desk, answer the phone, and remotely lock the door to ensure privacy during the call. After the call is done, you can remotely unlock the door and keep working.

    Now, obviously Lauer abused the remote lock, but just because a tech can be abused doesn’t make its existence innately wrong or evidence of abuse.

  23. Tom Says:

    Ummmmm, has anybody ever heard of knocking on a closed door before entering? This used to be common practice, is it no longer?

  24. Irv Says:

    When I was teaching junior high school I had a large sign in my room that said “The harder it is to do the right thing, the more important it is to do it!”

    I’m sorry that people might lose their jobs or advancement or money or prestige if they speak up but that’s the way the world works. Sometimes you pay the price and others reap the benefits of your work. It’s still worth it. Everyone in the military and emergency responders know this and are willing to risk their lives on it.

    Schools, churches and the popular media used to teach that doing the right thing was more important than success. It’s a shame that we seem to have lost that part of our culture. Today’s scandals are a direct result of that loss.

  25. Dave Says:

    Does Matt Lauer being a handsome man make these allegations less horrific than WeinStein’s?

  26. John Guilfoyle Says:

    Dave…Nope.
    Even a rather winsome pig is still a pig.

  27. Richard Saunders Says:

    I wonder if Professors Wax and Alexander’s article about why the “bourgeois values” are a good thing would get as much vitriol from the left if it were published today instead of in August?

  28. DNW Says:

    Dave Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    Does Matt Lauer being a handsome man make these allegations less horrific than WeinStein’s?”

    That question – in its excessive generosity – invites, begs for, a somewhat jovial response.

    The fact is that Lauer, who like many here I had not taken note of in many years, does seem to be channeling Weinstein’s look, albeit in a marginally less porcine manner.

    The days of his collegiate appearance – so far as that could be conceded – are long behind him; and he apparently flew through the middle aged Kevin Costner type stage without much of a pause. (See Ralph Fiennes, in “In Bruges” as emblematic) … Lauer’s present grizzled, bullet-head visage, coyly peering sidelong, now gives him the public face he deserves past 50.

    The guy looks like a perv, even if he is not … exactly.

  29. Waidmann Says:

    Neo,

    Please delete this comment if you consider it inappropriate. I debated before (perhaps wrongly) posting it.

    But, speaking of pigs, all of these allegations that have been flooding our lives lately remind me of a joke I heard in High School which seems strangely fitting.

    It seems there were these three farmers that wanted to win the biggest hog contest at the State Fair. So they decided to put a cork in the pig’s exit chute and feed the heck out of him for a month. Well, it seemed like a good idea, but nobody wanted to be the cork inserter, as it were. So they trained a monkey to insert corks into wine bottles, and hoped he would make the connection. Which he did, after being put in the pen with the pig. Well, the plan worked, and they won the Blue for biggest hog. Once they got home, they realized that now somebody had to take the cork out of the pig’s behind, so they quickly trained the monkey to pull corks out of wine bottles. When they put the monkey into the pen with the pig, the lights went out. Waking up three days later in a local hospital, they were greeted by a reporter who wanted to know what had happened. “What’s the last thing you remember?”, the reporter asked the first farmer. “Poop flying everywhere”, was the reply. Same question and answer from the second farmer. When the third farmer was asked the same question, he responded, “The last thing I remember was the poor monkey trying to put the cork back in.”

    A little scatological humor from High School. But doesn’t this sound like we’re watching a bunch of progressives scrambling to re-cork a sexual genie they deliberately let out of the bottle with the sexual revolution of the 60? Before they all drown in the aftermath?

    Personally, I don’t think they are going to be successful. The moral framework that served to hold predators of both sexes in check has been dismantled. They continue to act as they please, and expect there will be no consequences, but it was our Christian morality they dismantled that prevented this kind of behavior. “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”

    They are reaping what they have sown.

    Waidmann

  30. DNW Says:

    “Personally, I don’t think they are going to be successful. The moral framework that served to hold predators of both sexes in check has been dismantled. They continue to act as they please, and expect there will be no consequences, but it was our Christian morality they dismantled that prevented this kind of behavior. “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”

    They are reaping what they have sown.

    Waidmann”

    Yes.

    You might be interested to know, or be reminded if you have forgotten, of Tacitus’ remarks on marriage in “Germania”.

    Claim is, that it was didactic in intent rather than strictly ethnological. But it makes for interesting reading all the same. Especially as it occurs in the context of a glance back at a moral sensibility presumed to have been swamped by the fashions of the then present Roman age.

    ” … The dress of the women does not differ from that of the men; except that they more frequently wear linen, which they stain with purple; and do not lengthen their upper garment into sleeves, but leave exposed the whole arm, and part of the breast.

    The matrimonial bond is, nevertheless, strict and severe among them; nor is there anything in their manners more commendable than this. Almost singly among the barbarians, they content themselves with one wife; a very few of them excepted, who, not through incontinence, but because their alliance is solicited on account of their rank, practise polygamy. The wife does not bring a dowry to her husband, but receives one from him. The parents and relations assemble, and pass their approbation on the presents—presents not adapted to please a female taste, or decorate the bride; but oxen, a caparisoned steed, a shield, spear, and sword. By virtue of these, the wife is espoused; and she in her turn makes a present of some arms to her husband. This they consider as the firmest bond of union; these, the sacred mysteries, the conjugal deities. That the woman may not think herself excused from exertions of fortitude, or exempt from the casualties of war, she is admonished by the very ceremonial of her marriage, that she comes to her husband as a partner in toils and dangers; to suffer and to dare equally with him, in peace and in war: this is indicated by the yoked oxen, the harnessed steed, the offered arms. Thus she is to live; thus to die. She receives what she is to return inviolate and honored to her children; what her daughters-in-law are to receive, and again transmit to her grandchildren.

    They live, therefore, fenced around with chastity; corrupted by no seductive spectacles, no convivial incitements. Men and women are alike unacquainted with clandestine correspondence. Adultery is extremely rare among so numerous a people. Its punishment is instant, and at the pleasure of the husband. He cuts off the hair of the offender, strips her, and in presence of her relations expels her from his house, and pursues her with stripes through the whole village. Nor is any indulgence shown to a prostitute. Neither beauty, youth, nor riches can procure her a husband: for none there looks on vice with a smile, or calls mutual seduction the way of the world. Still more exemplary is the practice of those states in which none but virgins marry, and the expectations and wishes of a wife are at once brought to a period. Thus, they take one husband as one body and one life; that no thought, no desire, may extend beyond him; and he may be loved not only as their husband, but as their marriage. To limit the increase of children, or put to death any of the later progeny is accounted infamous: and good habits have there more influence than good laws elsewhere”

    If this is true of the “Germans” I am not sure it would be true of the Scandinavians of a somewhat later time, whose paganism and sexual morals were pretty awful if sources such as Ibn Fadlan or the Sagas are to be believed.

    https://content.ucpress.edu/chapters/12938.ch01.pdf

  31. John Guilfoyle Says:

    Waidmann! Now THAT was funny!
    I don’t care who you are.

  32. The Other Chuck Says:

    DNW:

    The harsh words vented a little anger. I have the examples of women in my family who pulled themselves out of poverty and into full citizenship within a few generations. My maternal grandmother was yanked out of grade school after the 5th grade to milk cows. Nevertheless she went on to educate herself. I have a special photograph of her standing in front of my then 14 year old mother, both dressed in white, holding a “Let Women Vote” sign as they were preparing to march in a parade.

    My mother was also lacking a full formal education. When she was 15 and in the first year of high school, my grandfather brought home a pair of boy’s lace up boots for her. She refused to wear them to school. When he told her that was all she was going to get, she quit school and got a job at the local match factory. Later she went to night school and continued her education on her own. She married but always worked so that she would have some independence.

    Neither of these women as well as many others I’ve known, ever gave up an ounce of dignity. Maybe it was the Victorian influence, or the fact that they were descended from pioneers. Whatever the reason they held the moral high ground and yet advanced their own well being. Both were born without voting rights and fought to achieve equality.

    Where have they all gone?

  33. AesopFan Says:

    Waidmann Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 3:37 pm

    A little scatological humor from High School. But doesn’t this sound like we’re watching a bunch of progressives scrambling to re-cork a sexual genie they deliberately let out of the bottle with the sexual revolution of the 60? Before they all drown in the aftermath?

    Personally, I don’t think they are going to be successful. The moral framework that served to hold predators of both sexes in check has been dismantled. They continue to act as they please, and expect there will be no consequences, but it was our Christian morality they dismantled that prevented this kind of behavior.
    * * *
    It’s always amazing to see the arsonists get surprised when the fires burn down their own houses.

  34. AesopFan Says:

    Richard Saunders Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 2:59 pm
    I wonder if Professors Wax and Alexander’s article about why the “bourgeois values” are a good thing would get as much vitriol from the left if it were published today instead of in August?
    * *
    Yes, it would.
    I’m sure that neither the accused or accusers in these cases that we are hearing about championed any of those values — or not enough to take a stand on them and be willing to lose their jobs ala Jordan Peterson — (who is not out of work, btw).

  35. AesopFan Says:

    Irv Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 1:21 pm
    When I was teaching junior high school I had a large sign in my room that said “The harder it is to do the right thing, the more important it is to do it!”…

    Schools, churches and the popular media used to teach that doing the right thing was more important than success. It’s a shame that we seem to have lost that part of our culture. Today’s scandals are a direct result of that loss.
    * * *
    Our children’s classes at church have been teaching “It’s better to do the hard right than the easy wrong.”
    I hope they figure out what that means in practice.

  36. AesopFan Says:

    Lurch Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 8:29 am
    It saddens me that women have had to tolerate these predations in order to have a career and make a living.

    The Other Chuck Says:
    November 30th, 2017 at 10:49 am
    Was there anything that really prevented them from making complaints, filing lawsuits, or just walking away?
    * **
    Interesting that these two comments were next to each other.
    Clearly they did not have to tolerate predations in order to have a career or make a living — just to have THIS career. You can make a living doing lots of things that don’t involve putting out for your boss or co-workers.
    The only thing that prevented the three back-lash actions was the belief that they just had to keep THIS career.

  37. AesopFan Says:

    Looking at another facet of the on-going soap opera:

    https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/women-need-to-use-their-voices-and-stop-defending-scumbag-men/

    “The question really should be: What’s so toxic in our culture that some of our most accomplished women seek to rationalize such vile behavior? To salvage what they still see as friendships with men who’ve revealed themselves to be nothing but craven misogynists?”

    * * *
    Reply: “But they’re OUR misogynists, not some creepy conservative or Christian, so it’s okay to still be friends.”

    Another fall-out from the Clinton era, but it really started much further back, with JFK and FDR having their own sexual escapades hidden and excused.

  38. DNW Says:

    DNW:

    The harsh words vented a little anger.

    Reasonable anger, I would say.

    I have the examples of women in my family who pulled themselves out of poverty and into full citizenship within a few generations. My maternal grandmother was yanked out of grade school after the 5th grade to milk cows. Nevertheless she went on to educate herself…. My mother was also lacking a full formal education. … these women as well as many others I’ve known, [N]ever gave up an ounce of dignity. Maybe it was the Victorian influence, or the fact that they were descended from pioneers. Whatever the reason they held the moral high ground and yet advanced their own well being. Both were born without voting rights and fought to achieve equality.

    Where have they all gone?

    Their descendants are still here. My grandmother was born on a ranch in a state where women had the vote two generations before they did nationally.

    These women had daughters and granddaughters who probably share many of the traits of independence and self-respect that their maternal ancestors evinced.

    I know that in the case of my sisters, who descend from her on the parental side, they certainly do. Although my mother’s mother was also famous for having at age 16 socked a man who tried to molest her in her place of work. She was fired, but her act of defiance and retaliation became a family legend.

    It is just that there are also many go-with-the-flow materialists, for whom the value of personal dignity pales in comparison with social acceptance, feelings of being approved of, an orgasm, and a bit of “finery”.

    This probably has an evolutionary aspect to it. Strictly speaking, I cannot see how women’s honor or dignity is relevant to the reproduction of the species considered in its lowest forms of social and intellectual development.

    Women are probably first proud [historically speaking] when the men who value them are proud of them and see them as more than beasts of burden and sexual receptacles. And men likewise proud and careful of their behavior when they are valued by women and held in check by other men who will brook no nonsense.

    It’s probably a matter of both culture and descent … I would guess.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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